Your Opinions on Scalpers/Resellers

[Curt]

I have seen some users on this forum begin to talk about this subject, and there was a fairly good discussion about it over on the UC forums, so I figured I would make a thread and allow you guys to express your views on the matter. As many of you may have noticed, relatively recently there has been a huge number of people jumping on the card resell bandwagon and I am curious on everyones opinions. First off, I do not want this thread to turn into a flame war, with personal attacks being thrown around. Simply state your opinions and explain your reasoning behind them.

Ill start it off.

Quite frankly, I have no issues with anyone trying to profit off the resale of playing cards. I, myself have started to sell of extra decks of playing cards that I order from initial releases, in order to allow me to have my collection to fund itself essentially. I don't purchase bricks upon bricks with plans to resell but in the case of the Red Artifice I purchased 8 decks, opened 1, sold 4 and keep the remaining 3 in my collection. Same goes with the recent V6 release, I purchased a brick and have ended up selling 7 decks for a decent profit. Do I feel morally wrong for doing this? Heck no. Do I feel like I am some how ruining the card collecting community? Heck no. My opinion is that having any sort of collection is a luxury, no one truly needs hundreds upon hundreds of decks of cards, and if you feel like you do, you have issues. There are plenty of decks that I would love to get my hands on, like Cage Gardens, Smoke and Mirror V1's and Jerry's, but I really do not see that happening anytime soon because I will not allow myself to pay that much just to add to my collection. However, everyone is different, and that is why many people, including myself, are able to sell a $7 deck of cards for $40+ ( in the case of the Red Artifice ). If people are willing to pay a premium for a sold out deck of cards, there will always be somebody willing to sell. This is true for every retail business out there. Just because the store buy an Item for $100 does not mean they will sell it to you for that, thats just not smart business. Playing cards is a pretty niche market, but what I have found is the people in it tend to have a fair amount of excess money to spend on what they want, even if the markup is high.

On to my Next point

If you are a person who strongly objects to anyone scalping cards, let me explain the only way it will ever stop. First we need to understand that scalping cards, when done properly, is virtually impossible to lose money on. Unlike, say scalping a concert ticket, a deck of playing cards will 99% of the time at least maintain its original purchase value, if not increase. This differs from a concert ticket because if you end up being able to sell the ticket until the day of the concert, generally you would accept a reduced price, instead of taking a greater loss by not selling it. So, How to stop card scalpers? simple, do not buy from resellers. Although, your going to have to convince a majority of everyone else that purchases from resellers to do the same as well. It is simple supply and demand, if people continue to buy, there will be somebody to sell it to them.

My advice to anyone who absolutely hates resellers….make sure if, for some reason, you absolutely need to purchase an upcoming deck, be there for launch or don't complain afterwords when you can't buy it for the original launch price. And if you don't get the deck you want, remember that it is only a deck of cards and there are much more important things in your life than cards, I can guarantee that.


Please post your opinions about this issue and please keep it civilized, there is no need to hurt peoples feeling here.

Also, I enjoy though provoking discussions, ones where both sides have solid statements to back up their opinions. So if other card related stuff, and maybe even some non card related stuff comes to my mind I will probably try and start a decent discussion about it.

- Curt

[Kanped]

The only issue I could have with it is the pricing, and most resellers seem reasonable in that respect.  If a lot of cards are bought up by resellers, they 'sell out' faster and then resellers can artificially increase the price beyond reason but there's too many resellers keeping the price low for this to work at the minute, so it's not really an issue.

[phantom1412]

I'm okay with the reseller.
But honestly, there is a guy I saw from facebook.
One day he asking to buy some decks for a very cheap price (About the same as the price from the original store)
And not long after that I saw him posted to sell the same brick he just asked to buy few days ago.
In much higher price...
I can't believe that.
How can someone sell him at that price. And actually he resell it not long after with his new price.
He didn't buy it because he want it, but he want only to make profit.
Only that kind of reseller that I will never buy anything from him.

[sinsandman]

I, like Curt, resell in small quantities with the intention to simply fund my hobby. I do not try to make my pockets fat...right now I am selling 9 green crown for $90...that is barely any mark up. So resellers that jack the prices high will always be beat by those who still keep their prices reasonable.

[John B.]

well this is how I see it. If a deck comes out that is rare i believe it is ok to buy a good number of them and re-sell. the only differences between this and the store selling them is when he sells he can raise the price depending on how rare they are, and if he sells other decks can sell them together for cheaper then they would all be buy them selves.  He is still making a profit since he bought a bunch of them which lowered the price. to the guy who got someone to sell low and then he sold high that is that comes down to morals. but that is how business works. I hope a lot of people do that, but I am going into a business degree and I see how it will happen a lot. I also feel that reselling and scalping are different. when you resell you most likely care about cards in some way so your not just selling them for the money. There are people who just buy and sell things for money but i believe most don't. People who scalp know they are screwing people over buy offering tickets for a lot of money when they sell out. They know the demand is high and they get to charge them what they want.

let me know what you think to what I said.

[Gunshy1]

i didnt read all the posts in the thread so i apologize if im repeating something already said:

The only real problem i see with it is the amount of cards that the resellers are purchasing, and the price they slap on them.

I totally understand trying to have your card collection fund itself, i am also trying to do the same thing.

I wish more companies would do what E has done with the artifice decks. Sell one color continuously, and another in limited quantity.

[John B.]

i didnt read all the posts in the thread so i apologize if im repeating something already said:

The only real problem i see with it is the amount of cards that the resellers are purchasing, and the price they slap on them.

I totally understand trying to have your card collection fund itself, i am also trying to do the same thing.

I wish more companies would do what E has done with the artifice decks. Sell one color continuously, and another in limited quantity.

Well that kinda goes with what I said. But it is business. Think about a good business. You have to buy cheap and sell high. As demand is up and supply goes down price goes up. If demand is low and supply high price goes down.

[Gunshy1]

i didnt read all the posts in the thread so i apologize if im repeating something already said:

The only real problem i see with it is the amount of cards that the resellers are purchasing, and the price they slap on them.

I totally understand trying to have your card collection fund itself, i am also trying to do the same thing.

I wish more companies would do what E has done with the artifice decks. Sell one color continuously, and another in limited quantity.

Well that kinda goes with what I said. But it is business. Think about a good business. You have to buy cheap and sell high. As demand is up and supply goes down price goes up. If demand is low and supply high price goes down.

ya that's basic econ, but there are times people just set the price WAY high which then drives the price up for everyone else. I mean i saw a guy trying to sell his green crowns for $30 the other day.

[Curt]

In response to a few things brought up in the thread,

From what I see, reseller and scalper have so much overlap that they are basically the same thing. Even eBay stores, dedicated to cards, who are run by really nice people, still have insane markups on some of their decks. Everyone who resells anything is in it for the money, plain and simple, its human nature.

Another thing; I totally agree that with the increased number of people reselling limited edition decks, that it creates a much more competitive market, therefore lowering prices. But from what I have experienced with the recent V6 release, even with the competition, resell prices seem to have leveled out out at a 200-300% markup.

If other companies started to do what E did with the Red Artifice, I cannot see how that would benefit anyone other than resellers. At least for me, the Red Artifice has by far been my most profitable deck I have sold, with over are 500% markup on them....and that was using and auction style process. If more companies released a very limited deck while mass producing its counterpart, it would still allow for huge resell value.

And yes, as I stated in my original post; the only way I ever see a decrease in resellers and high resell values is if people just stop purchasing from them......which is not likely to happen.

[John B.]

i didnt read all the posts in the thread so i apologize if im repeating something already said:

The only real problem i see with it is the amount of cards that the resellers are purchasing, and the price they slap on them.

I totally understand trying to have your card collection fund itself, i am also trying to do the same thing.

I wish more companies would do what E has done with the artifice decks. Sell one color continuously, and another in limited quantity.

Well that kinda goes with what I said. But it is business. Think about a good business. You have to buy cheap and sell high. As demand is up and supply goes down price goes up. If demand is low and supply high price goes down.

ya that's basic econ, but there are times people just set the price WAY high which then drives the price up for everyone else. I mean i saw a guy trying to sell his green crowns for $30 the other day.

well yea he can. if someone buys them then its good. no one makes you buy them that high as curt said we can stop and only buy from retail but that wont happen.

[Gunshy1]

i know its all business; it just can be a tad frustrating at times. Oh well nothing i can do about it, ill just keep my eye out for good prices on cards.

[xela]

Thanks to resellers and resellers alone I was able to make my collection what it is today. Where in the world would I get my decks from if nobody had any to sell three years after they are released?

Sure, you have the Lee Ashers and whatnot, but I would argue that despite his false advertising, he is doing his job to keep the value of Jerry's high enough so that collectors that already have them don't lose out big time.

Ultimately it will always come down to the original sellers to properly release their cards. The Blue Crown decks sell out within hours...because speculators buy 144+ decks to sell on their sites. People don't understand just how many of those speculators there are. On eBay alone there are at least 40-50 different wholesalers who buy in bulk.

When only a few thousand decks are printed - of COURSE they will sell out quickly.

If you ever miss out on a launch deck, it is not the reseller's fault, it is the company that puts out the deck. When you allow for public purchase of 144+ decks, you will end up having at least 5k decks sold to those people alone. Yes, it creates a public opinion that your deck is hot and awesome, but eventually people do see past the ruse.

I mean, how can a deck "sell out" to normal customers, and then stay in stock on 20 different websites for twice the price for years after?

[Evan]

I resell decks that sell out. I never resell decks that are still in print.

[phantom1412]

Yeah, it's true that reseller give we a change to get decks that out of stock before we started collecting. And actually the reseller isn't the one who give the price- it's the buyer who give the price to the decks.

[junjie04]

I have seen some users on this forum begin to talk about this subject, and there was a fairly good discussion about it over on the UC forums, so I figured I would make a thread and allow you guys to express your views on the matter. As many of you may have noticed, relatively recently there has been a huge number of people jumping on the card resell bandwagon and I am curious on everyones opinions. First off, I do not want this thread to turn into a flame war, with personal attacks being thrown around. Simply state your opinions and explain your reasoning behind them.

Ill start it off.

Quite frankly, I have no issues with anyone trying to profit off the resale of playing cards. I, myself have started to sell of extra decks of playing cards that I order from initial releases, in order to allow me to have my collection to fund itself essentially. I don't purchase bricks upon bricks with plans to resell but in the case of the Red Artifice I purchased 8 decks, opened 1, sold 4 and keep the remaining 3 in my collection. Same goes with the recent V6 release, I purchased a brick and have ended up selling 7 decks for a decent profit. Do I feel morally wrong for doing this? Heck no. Do I feel like I am some how ruining the card collecting community? Heck no. My opinion is that having any sort of collection is a luxury, no one truly needs hundreds upon hundreds of decks of cards, and if you feel like you do, you have issues. There are plenty of decks that I would love to get my hands on, like Cage Gardens, Smoke and Mirror V1's and Jerry's, but I really do not see that happening anytime soon because I will not allow myself to pay that much just to add to my collection. However, everyone is different, and that is why many people, including myself, are able to sell a $7 deck of cards for $40+ ( in the case of the Red Artifice ). If people are willing to pay a premium for a sold out deck of cards, there will always be somebody willing to sell. This is true for every retail business out there. Just because the store buy an Item for $100 does not mean they will sell it to you for that, thats just not smart business. Playing cards is a pretty niche market, but what I have found is the people in it tend to have a fair amount of excess money to spend on what they want, even if the markup is high.

On to my Next point

If you are a person who strongly objects to anyone scalping cards, let me explain the only way it will ever stop. First we need to understand that scalping cards, when done properly, is virtually impossible to lose money on. Unlike, say scalping a concert ticket, a deck of playing cards will 99% of the time at least maintain its original purchase value, if not increase. This differs from a concert ticket because if you end up being able to sell the ticket until the day of the concert, generally you would accept a reduced price, instead of taking a greater loss by not selling it. So, How to stop card scalpers? simple, do not buy from resellers. Although, your going to have to convince a majority of everyone else that purchases from resellers to do the same as well. It is simple supply and demand, if people continue to buy, there will be somebody to sell it to them.

My advice to anyone who absolutely hates resellers….make sure if, for some reason, you absolutely need to purchase an upcoming deck, be there for launch or don't complain afterwords when you can't buy it for the original launch price. And if you don't get the deck you want, remember that it is only a deck of cards and there are much more important things in your life than cards, I can guarantee that.


Please post your opinions about this issue and please keep it civilized, there is no need to hurt peoples feeling here.

Also, I enjoy though provoking discussions, ones where both sides have solid statements to back up their opinions. So if other card related stuff, and maybe even some non card related stuff comes to my mind I will probably try and start a decent discussion about it.

- Curt

I do not agree with you, you have bought 4 extra and make someone to buy 4 less to collect... i wanted to buy them but it is you resellers that made it sold out and now it is increasing in price.. well done..... Have you ever think of developing countries? They do not earn so much money as people in developed countries and you people in developed countries are more richer, you have made some people that are poorer to not own a luxury deck at a affordable price...(This is what i think, i am not trying to cause a argument or what so ever)

[John B.]

I have seen some users on this forum begin to talk about this subject, and there was a fairly good discussion about it over on the UC forums, so I figured I would make a thread and allow you guys to express your views on the matter. As many of you may have noticed, relatively recently there has been a huge number of people jumping on the card resell bandwagon and I am curious on everyones opinions. First off, I do not want this thread to turn into a flame war, with personal attacks being thrown around. Simply state your opinions and explain your reasoning behind them.

Ill start it off.

Quite frankly, I have no issues with anyone trying to profit off the resale of playing cards. I, myself have started to sell of extra decks of playing cards that I order from initial releases, in order to allow me to have my collection to fund itself essentially. I don't purchase bricks upon bricks with plans to resell but in the case of the Red Artifice I purchased 8 decks, opened 1, sold 4 and keep the remaining 3 in my collection. Same goes with the recent V6 release, I purchased a brick and have ended up selling 7 decks for a decent profit. Do I feel morally wrong for doing this? Heck no. Do I feel like I am some how ruining the card collecting community? Heck no. My opinion is that having any sort of collection is a luxury, no one truly needs hundreds upon hundreds of decks of cards, and if you feel like you do, you have issues. There are plenty of decks that I would love to get my hands on, like Cage Gardens, Smoke and Mirror V1's and Jerry's, but I really do not see that happening anytime soon because I will not allow myself to pay that much just to add to my collection. However, everyone is different, and that is why many people, including myself, are able to sell a $7 deck of cards for $40+ ( in the case of the Red Artifice ). If people are willing to pay a premium for a sold out deck of cards, there will always be somebody willing to sell. This is true for every retail business out there. Just because the store buy an Item for $100 does not mean they will sell it to you for that, thats just not smart business. Playing cards is a pretty niche market, but what I have found is the people in it tend to have a fair amount of excess money to spend on what they want, even if the markup is high.

On to my Next point

If you are a person who strongly objects to anyone scalping cards, let me explain the only way it will ever stop. First we need to understand that scalping cards, when done properly, is virtually impossible to lose money on. Unlike, say scalping a concert ticket, a deck of playing cards will 99% of the time at least maintain its original purchase value, if not increase. This differs from a concert ticket because if you end up being able to sell the ticket until the day of the concert, generally you would accept a reduced price, instead of taking a greater loss by not selling it. So, How to stop card scalpers? simple, do not buy from resellers. Although, your going to have to convince a majority of everyone else that purchases from resellers to do the same as well. It is simple supply and demand, if people continue to buy, there will be somebody to sell it to them.

My advice to anyone who absolutely hates resellers….make sure if, for some reason, you absolutely need to purchase an upcoming deck, be there for launch or don't complain afterwords when you can't buy it for the original launch price. And if you don't get the deck you want, remember that it is only a deck of cards and there are much more important things in your life than cards, I can guarantee that.


Please post your opinions about this issue and please keep it civilized, there is no need to hurt peoples feeling here.

Also, I enjoy though provoking discussions, ones where both sides have solid statements to back up their opinions. So if other card related stuff, and maybe even some non card related stuff comes to my mind I will probably try and start a decent discussion about it.

- Curt

I do not agree with you, you have bought 4 extra and make someone to buy 4 less to collect... i wanted to buy them but it is you resellers that made it sold out and now it is increasing in price.. well done..... Have you ever think of developing countries? They do not earn so much money as people in developed countries and you people in developed countries are more richer, you have made some people that are poorer to not own a luxury deck at a affordable price...(This is what i think, i am not trying to cause a argument or what so ever)

I know what you mean. I come from a family life on the lower side on the money scale. not quite poor but lower average. I see why you feel the way you do. the thing is think about it. you stay up and get the deck late at night do you really want to sell it at a very cheap price? I care about helping people out. currently work in customer service at a store I work at. yes its a pain when people raise them to 5x what they paid but if i buy a $9 deck I'm going to try to sell it for 15-20 if it sells out. if it does not then i will wait to they no longer print them and then try to sell them. If it turns out everyone is selling them for 60 then I would put them at that price but try to help the person I am selling to them out. either with free shipping or maybe a couple of cheaper decks I also have. Try to see it from their point of view its a good way to get the money to either buy more decks or as someone else mentioned on a different thread paying for college.

[Curt]

I do not agree with you, you have bought 4 extra and make someone to buy 4 less to collect... i wanted to buy them but it is you resellers that made it sold out and now it is increasing in price.. well done..... Have you ever think of developing countries? They do not earn so much money as people in developed countries and you people in developed countries are more richer, you have made some people that are poorer to not own a luxury deck at a affordable price...(This is what i think, i am not trying to cause a argument or what so ever)

What you have to remember is, I am not buying a necessity and selling for a high price, I am selling a luxury. I do indeed think about developing countries and my first though would be, why on earth would you spend money on 54 pieces of paper if you could not afford your next meal? That logic just does not make sense. I, by no means am rich, but I would say my family has an above average wealth compared to others in my city (population ~ 130 000). That being said, I spend a small percentage of the money I earn from work on playing cards. Would I buy a Red Artifice deck for $40+? Heck no... I don't need cards, I want them but I would not sulk and become depressed if I did not own them. There is always something more important to spend your money on than playing cards, especially if you are of a lower income.

Thank you for sharing your opinion, and I respect it and you. People expressing their different opinions adds great depth to a discussion and its great for the Aether community.

[John B.]

I do not agree with you, you have bought 4 extra and make someone to buy 4 less to collect... i wanted to buy them but it is you resellers that made it sold out and now it is increasing in price.. well done..... Have you ever think of developing countries? They do not earn so much money as people in developed countries and you people in developed countries are more richer, you have made some people that are poorer to not own a luxury deck at a affordable price...(This is what i think, i am not trying to cause a argument or what so ever)

What you have to remember is, I am not buying a necessity and selling for a high price, I am selling a luxury. I do indeed think about developing countries and my first though would be, why on earth would you spend money on 54 pieces of paper if you could not afford your next meal? That logic just does not make sense. I, by no means am rich, but I would say my family has an above average wealth compared to others in my city (population ~ 130 000). That being said, I spend a small percentage of the money I earn from work on playing cards. Would I buy a Red Artifice deck for $40+? Heck no... I don't need cards, I want them but I would not sulk and become depressed if I did not own them. There is always something more important to spend your money on than playing cards, especially if you are of a lower income.

Thank you for sharing your opinion, and I respect it and you. People expressing their different opinions adds great depth to a discussion and its great for the Aether community.

curt wanted to say thank you for saying some of the message i was trying to get at but i believe you did it in a better way. and yea i just thought of the whole paper or food thing.

[junjie04]

I know a ultimate way to solve this problem!! Dun buy decks from resellers:D

[Curt]

Junjie, that is exactly what I had posted in my original post. And then yet again in my follow up post.

As you can see here

So, How to stop card scalpers? simple, do not buy from resellers. Although, your going to have to convince a majority of everyone else that purchases from resellers to do the same as well. It is simple supply and demand, if people continue to buy, there will be somebody to sell it to them.

And

And yes, as I stated in my original post; the only way I ever see a decrease in resellers and high resell values is if people just stop purchasing from them......which is not likely to happen.

But as I said, unless literally everybody collectively agrees not to, then nothing will happen and the trend will continue on.

[phantom1412]

For some collectors, it's impossible from stopping them from buying decks even from reseller.
Their collection means a lot, so they have to buy.

But I have a better idea, trading card is really the good way.
The only problem is not always that people will have something they want to trade for.

[Curt]

Trading is a nice way to go to obtain decks although some people are scared off it a bit because it heavily relies on trust from both parties involved. Unlike where if you purchase something on eBay you can file claims and see feedback. As for it being impossible to stop buying decks, that sounds like a mental disorder like OCD ( Obsessive Compulsive Disorder ) and should probably try and visit a therapist or something, because it probably would not only effect the playing card aspect of their life but other parts as well.

[John B.]

@curt its not really a mental disorder, it can be if taken to the extreme but part of it is the face that we desire something badly and if we can get it we will.

[xela]

I want to stress my point again.

It's not the resellers that are the problem.

It comes down to not shooting the middle man. Blame a company for selling most of their decks to wholesalers, not the wholesalers for making a living off of something. You guys have to realize that the people that resell to fund their collection do not sell that much. The vast majority of resellers that have a huge impact on demand buy 144+ decks of a release. That's a lot of decks gone to just people who sell them later after they become "sold out" and their prices go up.

I strongly advise to NOT buy in bulk from resellers. Ever.

Not for inflated prices, anyway. Certain decks have a current market value. If you see them being sold for a single dollar more, boycott it. There are plenty of sellers on eBay that are trying to pass off the S&Mv1 collection for $250 a set for example. This is just laughable, since their market value for a set is about $180-200.

Buy smartly, and everybody wins.

Also, if you miss a launch sale because you didn't log on, I simply do not feel for you. No matter how you twist it, someone who stayed up or was passionate enough to drop everything in their life to get a deck of cards deserves to have it. I mean, it's a deck of cards. They're a commodity at best. You don't have to have every single rare launch that comes out and with an awesome limited edition deck coming out almost every month, you're BOUND to hit one of them at the right time.

Don't try to beat them, just join them.

[Gunshy1]

I hate it when people get angry because they didnt get a deck that they were looking forward to, but then they clearly state that they didnt stay up late to order it. i honestly just think, "what the hell? how can you be mad when you didnt even try to get the deck."