Early stages of my next deck

[ReaganM]

Unfortunately this deck is shaping to be another fail. As mentioned before 1 ways are overall cheap and novelty looking...and the fact that it is an ape with a cigar just adds to that image. Don't get me wrong, I love apes and cigars. My fascination with cards was born from my love of poker, then went into magic and collecting. In my own opinion, I would not even pull these out at a poker game. If I did pull them it would be to get a laugh before I pulled out the actual deck we would use for poker. I know this may all seem harsh but that is not my intent. I only write to warn and hopefully inspire a design change before you waste time and effort you could be applying to a deck that would be successful on Kickstarter. Take your sues from the successes and failures before you (to include your own)...novelty decks typically don't fly and marketing is king.

Another fail? Anyways, the whole point of this thread was to edit a deck oriented towards poker players so itd be ready to launch, not to make a novelty deck. We are changing the design, but Id need a little more help then "this is a novelty deck and needs a major design change".

[Don Boyer]

I don't mind the ape and cigar design, though most serious poker players would really scoff at it.


Try for a classier design, either mirrored top and bottom or a design that mirrors itself placed in the center.  Need not be overly fancy - simple is actually good.  In no way should the deck have any marks or one-way indicators.


Have you considered a design for the faces?  Texas Hold 'Em poker is the most popular variant; it gets the most TV coverage, for certain.  It has two contrasting requirements: small indices to keep your "peek" from getting seen by the rest of the table and jumbo indices for the community cards to be easily visible.  But you can't go too crazy with face innovations, because if they aren't improvements (or in some cases, if they're just plain different), players will reject them, as what happened at the 2007 WSOP when "PokerPeek" faces were introduced.


I actually have an idea along those lines.  In the top left & bottom right corners, standard indices.  In the top right and bottom left pips, mini indices on a 45-degree diagonal for peeks.  In the center, to the left, a jumbo index with pip, and to the right, a reduced-size image (much like you'd see on a jumbo deck) of the standard pip layouts and court faces.  It's a good compromise and has familiar elements to it.

[ReaganM]

Ok so here is the double sided monkey.

[digipunk]

Ok so its 20$ on kickstarter for TWO decks, thats 10$ a deck. Also it includes domestic shipping, thats pretty cheap.

Do you hear the sound of objection from international buyers
Or you need only US buyers to back your project?

International buyers can still get a deck, however they need to add 5$.

$5 is fair enough for international buyers, but I don't like the back design either.

[NathanCanadas]

I have too say the back design kinda repulses me from this deck. No offense.

[Aaron]

haha I acctually like this I would pledge for a set of 2

[Lara Krystle "Lane"]

can i ask why you chose the ape design? Whats the story behind it?

[ReaganM]

can i ask why you chose the ape design? Whats the story behind it?

Hes a mascot.. of sorts. He is the Ultra Ape. We came up with him when we made our first thing, which was a comic book. If we ever made a company for ourselves ( and we will soon once we have done all the paperwork for the steampunk cards ) wed use him as our mascot.

[Aaron]

For the court cards you should give them the ape head.

[Lara Krystle "Lane"]

can i ask why you chose the ape design? Whats the story behind it?

Hes a mascot.. of sorts. He is the Ultra Ape.

Mascot for who? what? Sometimes if I know the story behind the design I tend to look at it a bit differently. ^_^ I just want to know why it inspired you to use such a design/focalpoint inthe design

[NathanCanadas]

Yes, I also think the court cards should have ape heads, but be a little funner, less "scary" than the back design. So it evens it out and contrasts them at the same time.

[ReaganM]

can i ask why you chose the ape design? Whats the story behind it?

Hes a mascot.. of sorts. He is the Ultra Ape.

Mascot for who? what? Sometimes if I know the story behind the design I tend to look at it a bit differently. ^_^ I just want to know why it inspired you to use such a design/focalpoint inthe design

Ah, well when we made our first comic book, we decided once we made a company for ourselves wed call ourselves ultra ape, and chose him to be our mascot. He resembles um... apeyness.. and... classyness?


oh, and what is it exactly that you guys dont like about the back?

[Lara Krystle "Lane"]

can i ask why you chose the ape design? Whats the story behind it?

Hes a mascot.. of sorts. He is the Ultra Ape.

Mascot for who? what? Sometimes if I know the story behind the design I tend to look at it a bit differently. ^_^ I just want to know why it inspired you to use such a design/focalpoint inthe design

Ah, well when we made our first comic book, we decided once we made a company for ourselves wed call ourselves ultra ape, and chose him to be our mascot. He resembles um... apeness.. and... classyness?

oh okay I see.

[ReaganM]

I don't mind the ape and cigar design, though most serious poker players would really scoff at it.


Try for a classier design, either mirrored top and bottom or a design that mirrors itself placed in the center.  Need not be overly fancy - simple is actually good.  In no way should the deck have any marks or one-way indicators.


Have you considered a design for the faces?  Texas Hold 'Em poker is the most popular variant; it gets the most TV coverage, for certain.  It has two contrasting requirements: small indices to keep your "peek" from getting seen by the rest of the table and jumbo indices for the community cards to be easily visible.  But you can't go too crazy with face innovations, because if they aren't improvements (or in some cases, if they're just plain different), players will reject them, as what happened at the 2007 WSOP when "PokerPeek" faces were introduced.


I actually have an idea along those lines.  In the top left & bottom right corners, standard indices.  In the top right and bottom left pips, mini indices on a 45-degree diagonal for peeks.  In the center, to the left, a jumbo index with pip, and to the right, a reduced-size image (much like you'd see on a jumbo deck) of the standard pip layouts and court faces.  It's a good compromise and has familiar elements to it.

Hmm this is a good Idea I might steal this from you. If thats ok.

[moonexe]

He resembles um... apeyness.. and... classyness?

Isn't that a contradiction?

oh, and what is it exactly that you guys dont like about the back?

To be honest, the colors are unattractive, the ape looks out of place and the shading method is inappropriate, and the whole thing doesn't seem to come together very well. There is a huge lack of consistency.
And I'm not sure what "classy" means to you, but to me it certainly doesn't have much to do with an angry gorilla smoking a cigar.

[NathanCanadas]

Are you planning on having custom court cards? Because if you are, I really recommend you use apes or court cards that relate with the back design. Simple but elegant and, especially, clean.
@Moon - You really are harsh! It is classy because he is smoking a cigar, is mad but isn't running all around etc.
@Reagan - I think you should add a 007-type hat, with a Sherlock Hormes-type jacket. That'll make him more classy.

[ReaganM]

Are you planning on having custom court cards? Because if you are, I really recommend you use apes or court cards that relate with the back design. Simple but elegant and, especially, clean.
@Moon - You really are harsh! It is classy because he is smoking a cigar, is mad but isn't running all around etc.
@Reagan - I think you should add a 007-type hat, with a Sherlock Hormes-type jacket. That'll make him more classy.

lol here is the first sketch of the ultra ape maybe youll like him more? And were toying with the idea of custom court cards.

[digipunk]

oh, and what is it exactly that you guys dont like about the back?

There is another thread on this forum: "Favorite Deck?"
Have you tried to understand those decks?
 
Now we know the meaning of Ultra Ape for you, but it doesn't mean it is also meaningful for others. Frankly speaking, I am afraid kids and gals will be scared by the fierce-looking apes if I use this deck. No offense : shouldn't you design a pattern that players/magicians/cardists like?

[ReaganM]

oh, and what is it exactly that you guys dont like about the back?

There is another thread on this forum: "Favorite Deck?"
Have you tried to understand those decks?
 
Now we know the meaning of Ultra Ape for you, but it doesn't mean it is also meaningful for others. Frankly speaking, I am afraid kids and gals will be scared by the fierce-looking apes if I use this deck. No offense : shouldn't you design a pattern that players/magicians/cardists like?

Offense taken. Who would be scared of a picture of an ape? And no I cant just whip up a design that everyone would like its not exactly that simple. Thats why I made this topic so we can actually work on the design and improve it, to a respectable degree. I will have a look at that thread though.

[K]

@Reagan - I think you should add a 007-type hat, with a Sherlock Hormes-type jacket. That'll make him more classy.

[size=78%]you stole my idea! haha just kidding, ideas are for sharing but i suggested that first [/size]
http://aethercards.com/discourse/index.php?topic=1751.20

Are you planning on having custom court cards? Because if you are, I really recommend you use apes or court cards that relate with the back design. Simple but elegant and, especially, clean.
@Moon - You really are harsh! It is classy because he is smoking a cigar, is mad but isn't running all around etc.
@Reagan - I think you should add a 007-type hat, with a Sherlock Hormes-type jacket. That'll make him more classy.

lol here is the first sketch of the ultra ape maybe youll like him more? And were toying with the idea of custom court cards.

thats a nice improvement for the deck but then again how are you gonna fit it in?

oh, and what is it exactly that you guys dont like about the back?

There is another thread on this forum: "Favorite Deck?"
Have you tried to understand those decks?
 
Now we know the meaning of Ultra Ape for you, but it doesn't mean it is also meaningful for others. Frankly speaking, I am afraid kids and gals will be scared by the fierce-looking apes if I use this deck. No offense : shouldn't you design a pattern that players/magicians/cardists like?

Offense taken. Who would be scared of a picture of an ape? And no I cant just whip up a design that everyone would like its not exactly that simple. Thats why I made this topic so we can actually work on the design and improve it, to a respectable degree. I will have a look at that thread though.

i think regan is aiming for his deck for poker players rather than magicians/cardist/kids hence the ape

[AceGambit]

No offense : shouldn't you design a pattern that players/magicians/cardists like?

Hold on.  No.  I don't think he should be at all.  Magicians, cardists, and card players all have very different uses for a deck.  While creating a deck that is good for all is entirely  possible and has been done a variety of times in the past, I do not believe it is a requirement.  People have said before that marketing is key.  People have also said that designing a deck shouldn't be about churning out something to make a profit, but about bringing a piece of artwork into existence.  If this art means classy poker playing with a film noir feel to him, then why should he try to cater to the magicians and cardists of the world?  I think that would be bad advice.  Cater to your target audience, after all they are the ones you want to buy your product.


As an added piece of advice:  I've done some work with digital art in the past, I know how long it must have taken to do his teeth, but consider a closed mouth, and maybe a lit cigar with a little smoke.

[hazofhorsham]

Some of you are being a tad harsh don't you think? As for calling the ape scary? WHAT?! It's an ape - scowling. He isn't wielding an axe or a sword... Also the deck is aimed at gamblers, so are most likely 18+ I doubt they will be scared by an ape.

[ReaganM]

@AceGambit: Thats a good idea, Ill draw it up. The main thing im worried about is the background and how the ape fits into it. Do you guys think the background is busy enough?

@K: I might not be able to, however he would probably fit perfectly well for the box art. And yes, I am aiming for the poker crowd, it seems like a bit of an untapped market.

[K]

@AceGambit: Thats a good idea, Ill draw it up. The main thing im worried about is the background and how the ape fits into it. Do you guys think the background is busy enough?

@K: I might not be able to, however he would probably fit perfectly well for the box art. And yes, I am aiming for the poker crowd, it seems like a bit of an untapped market.

Yes, I bet it'll look nice with the box but the problem is how it is going to fit with the back of the cards.. Hopefully it wont be 'like' looney tunes with a standard background a 'star' and the gorilla in the middle 'popping out'. I'll let you know if I can think of any suggestions for the back, in the mean time you're doing great! keep it up, take constructive feedback to pull yourself up 

[ReaganM]

@AceGambit: Thats a good idea, Ill draw it up. The main thing im worried about is the background and how the ape fits into it. Do you guys think the background is busy enough?

@K: I might not be able to, however he would probably fit perfectly well for the box art. And yes, I am aiming for the poker crowd, it seems like a bit of an untapped market.

Yes, I bet it'll look nice with the box but the problem is how it is going to fit with the back of the cards.. Hopefully it wont be 'like' looney tunes with a standard background a 'star' and the gorilla in the middle 'popping out'. I'll let you know if I can think of any suggestions for the back, in the mean time you're doing great! keep it up, take constructive feedback to pull yourself up 

For the very first draw up we used the hat and a diamond hole, and unfortunantly thats exactly what it looked like, I could try again. Anyways thanks for the advice though, I know sometimes I get a wee bit defensinve.