You are Here:
Wild Bill Hickok Deck?

Author (Read 11659 times)

Re: Wild Bill Hickok Deck?
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2014, 01:13:40 AM »
 

Don Boyer

  • VP/Dir. Club Forum/DAC Chair, 52 Plus Joker
  • Administrator
  • Forum Sentinel
  • *
  • 19,172
    Posts
  • Reputation: 415
  • Pick a card, any card...no, not THAT card!

  • Facebook:
I got the photos of the Queen of Hearts from the Adams museum:

Does this help at all?

Thanks!

Not being an expert, I find it unusual that a deck of this one's supposed age does indeed have rounded corners - but it's difficult to pin down the exact year such innovations were being put to use by manufacturers.  Additionally, despite the faces being "old fashioned" and more commonly found in faro decks than what we now know as standard decks, it is true that companies were still making cards much like this through the end of the 19th century - I've seen USPC salesman's sample books offering cards in this style alongside the designs we know today.
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/
 

Re: Wild Bill Hickok Deck?
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2014, 04:04:48 PM »
 

52plusjoker

  • Frequent Flyer
  • *
  • 887
    Posts
  • Reputation: 49
Hard to tell from the pix which may be distorted but the dimensions don't look right. The cards seem too long or the width too narrow. If original they would be 2.5" x 3'5".
Tom Dawson
52 Plus Joker Playing Card Collectors Club
 

Re: Wild Bill Hickok Deck?
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2014, 01:03:39 AM »
 

Don Boyer

  • VP/Dir. Club Forum/DAC Chair, 52 Plus Joker
  • Administrator
  • Forum Sentinel
  • *
  • 19,172
    Posts
  • Reputation: 415
  • Pick a card, any card...no, not THAT card!

  • Facebook:
Hard to tell from the pix which may be distorted but the dimensions don't look right. The cards seem too long or the width too narrow. If original they would be 2.5" x 3'5".

I did a little quick measuring of the Queen of Hearts.  Obviously my measurements won't be accurate due to scaling, but the ratio of height to width should remain not more than minimally changed regardless of the size of the image on the computer screen.  In this case, the ratio is very close to being the standard 7:5 one would expect in a poker-sized card, certainly close enough when accounting for image distortion.

While it could just as easily be some other measurement sharing the same ratio, like perhaps 7" by 5", 10.5" by 7.5", 5.25" by 3.75", etc., the materials in the photo such as the pin holding the card sleeve in place, the fabric in the background, etc., would make it at least plausible that the cards are what we'd now call standard poker size.

Additionally, if those are the standard card sleeves I've seen and purchased in shops specializing in sports cards or collectible card games, those are specifically sized for holding 3.5" x 2.5" cards with a little room to spare, allowing for protection of the card without ruining it upon extraction and reinsertion.  The plastic used is formulated specifically to not shrink or warp under standard environmental conditions, specifically extreme naturally-occurring heat and cold.
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/
 

Re: Wild Bill Hickok Deck?
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2014, 05:59:41 PM »
 

Aoresteen

  • Newcomer
  • *
  • 8
    Posts
  • Reputation: 1
So does the Q of H help identify the maker of the cards?
 

Re: Wild Bill Hickok Deck?
« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2014, 06:30:18 PM »
 

52plusjoker

  • Frequent Flyer
  • *
  • 887
    Posts
  • Reputation: 49
So does the Q of H help identify the maker of the cards?
Unfortunately not precisely - that queen is common to what are often called one-way Faro courts which originated in the early years Of Samuel Hart, Charles Bartlet [likely another maker that was really Hart, Ball, etc.]. Probability is Samuel Hart which by 1870's was NYCC
Tom Dawson
52 Plus Joker Playing Card Collectors Club
 

Re: Wild Bill Hickok Deck?
« Reply #30 on: March 18, 2014, 02:13:55 AM »
 

Don Boyer

  • VP/Dir. Club Forum/DAC Chair, 52 Plus Joker
  • Administrator
  • Forum Sentinel
  • *
  • 19,172
    Posts
  • Reputation: 415
  • Pick a card, any card...no, not THAT card!

  • Facebook:
Early deck designs were frequently copies of previous deck designs.  In Rouen, France, they'd make cards to sell to the British, who would copy them, make them on their own and sell them to the Americans (and probably the Canadians as well!), who would in turn copy them and make them on their own to sell to whomever wanted them.  It's interesting because much like a child's game of "Telephone", the design often changes just a little from one copy to the next, and the accumulated changes can make for a much bigger difference from the original generation.  Sometimes this was intentional, the artist's way of putting his own imprimatur on the work, while other times it was simply a series of errors in copying.

Consider the King of Hearts - when first created in the Rouen style, he didn't have a sword behind his head (not through it, like most people believe when they call him the Suicide King).  Instead, it was an axe carried over his shoulder.  You'd never in a million years guess that was the case based on common, present-day designs.

To a limited extent, you can try working out the printer and the age of the deck from those changes, but it would be more like guesswork than an exact science, especially when factoring in designers' proclivity to copy designs from other designers.

If it was a later deck, and you knew the printer, you'd have a better chance of using courts to determine age.  USPC courts are pretty distinctive and have gradually changed over the years - there was a really good article on this in Clear the Decks a few issues ago.
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/
 

Re: Wild Bill Hickok Deck?
« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2023, 03:24:08 PM »
 

Lowrunner

  • Newcomer
  • *
  • 1
    Posts
  • Reputation: 0
Were the cards he used square? Were there any numbers on cards. I'm trying to replicate it just for fun on my wine barrel with the glass table top over the top of it. Thank you for your time
 

Re: Wild Bill Hickok Deck?
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2023, 02:40:24 AM »
 

Don Boyer

  • VP/Dir. Club Forum/DAC Chair, 52 Plus Joker
  • Administrator
  • Forum Sentinel
  • *
  • 19,172
    Posts
  • Reputation: 415
  • Pick a card, any card...no, not THAT card!

  • Facebook:
Were the cards he used square? Were there any numbers on cards. I'm trying to replicate it just for fun on my wine barrel with the glass table top over the top of it. Thank you for your time

It's a shame that so many of the photos in this thread are lost to dead links.  It's why I keep encouraging people to upload their photos instead of simply linking to them - too many topics have lost a lot of their relevance because of dead links.

Anyway, regarding Mr. Hickok's cards, they were almost certainly square-cornered, without indices, and while we know he was holding a pair of Aces and a pair of Eights, there's been much debate over what the fifth card was, and even what the exact suits of the Aces and Eights were.

You could probably replicate the look of the old cards using some parchment-like heavy paper or printing the cards onto white cardstock and aging them with used teabags (old D&D DM's trick).  I'd suggest using a guillotine-style paper cutter - you'll get much straighter lines with them.
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/