Author (Read 12632 times)

MSimonart · « **Reply #25 on:** July 02, 2012, 05:41:11 AM »

These do remind me of all decks I've ever owned. How can one new deck be so unoriginal???

Don Boyer · « **Reply #26 on:** July 02, 2012, 08:19:06 AM »

Quote from: Simonart on July 02, 2012, 05:41:11 AM

These do remind me of all decks I've ever owned. How can one new deck be so unoriginal???

Some decks don't need all the bells and whistles. You're free to not purchase it if you so desire.

Dudeee · « **Reply #27 on:** July 02, 2012, 08:37:26 AM »

Erm..... I understand it looks like a few other decks, and this looks like a damn fine decks, not so much the design but the color is awesome!!!

But can someone explain why USPCC is so difficult with the approvals? These doesn't look technically difficult for printing to me. I have to admit I know little, I just wanna learn.

jmrock · « **Reply #28 on:** July 02, 2012, 08:51:04 AM »

You see, this is what separates those with taste from those without... These decks are incredible... The Fading, the color, the borders, and the fact that we're updating the oldest 'in print' deck of playing cards available today... Unoriginal? How do I have the same hobby as half of you?... I just hope they don't come out of the gate at a ridiculous number... Congratulations Zenneth for yet another winner!!! I will no doubt pick up these decks and I am looking forward to it... Is there an approximate release date?

Edit: I have to say... I just went back to look at these decks again, and I have to say, they're incredible... Great job Zenneth... Taste, Class, Sophistication, & Performance...

Don Boyer · « **Reply #29 on:** July 02, 2012, 09:00:31 AM »

Quote from: Dudeee on July 02, 2012, 08:37:26 AM

Erm..... I understand it looks like a few other decks, and this looks like a damn fine decks, not so much the design but the color is awesome!!!

But can someone explain why USPCC is so difficult with the approvals? These doesn't look technically difficult for printing to me. I have to admit I know little, I just wanna learn.

Zenneth was here in another topic talking about whether people really like traditionally-cut decks. He asked because he was looking into it for a deck project; this might have been the deck he was discussing.

He wanted to make a trad-cut deck, but USPC advised against it, claiming that recent attempts were coming out with somewhat ragged cuts. I suggested that he have USPC send him a few samples of the "ragged" cuts on the decks in question so he could make an informed decision about his deck.

MSimonart · « **Reply #30 on:** July 02, 2012, 09:02:47 AM »

I said they were unoriginal, never said they didn't look great. I totally love simple back decks, and that's why they remind me of every deck I've ever owned. Because I mainly purchase the simplistic back design decks. But I think there have been alot of these lately, and I'm a little short on money, but I think there are possibilities to make a simple back design without being unoriginal. Again, I think these look great, but just not 'new'. Nonetheless, I'll be picking up a deck or two, just to make sure I complete my collection of minimalistic backs.

Zenneth · « **Reply #31 on:** July 02, 2012, 04:21:04 PM »

Hey guys,

Thanks a lot for all the input and feedback!

Start off, thanks to Don Boyer, he said very well about one major concern of "Magicians".

We need more low key deck designs for our professional work.

I collect various decks myself, but other than Bicycle rider back and the New Fan Back that I reprinted, there are only few decks can be actually used in my commercial shows: Tally Ho and Bee playing cards.

Most lay spectators here in Hong Kong are not familiar with Bicycle Rider deck, the only deck that they know is Bee playing cards, which I believe is the most known deck in the world.

Also, even for cardistry practioners, they would prefer a deck of cards with simplistic back design that does not distract the attention away from their flourishes and movements.

So, I hope you guys can understand why I have decided to go with a variation of Bee diamond back.

Most importantly, this deck is designed for Project C, which comes with a unique positioning and brand image. Though I really can't reveal too much about it, as it's not yet ready to launch.

I knew a lot of card collectors would be put down by the fact this deck is a variation of Bee design, but, the originality, or, as I like to call it, "the soul" , of this deck is on the tuck case.

I agree, taking the tuck case away from this deck, the card back is a classy looking, but it is "unoriginal" , especially from a card collector's point of view.

I wish I could show you guys the tuck case design right now, but it has too much information of Project C on it, so for now, I could only beg your patience and wait until the reveal of the tuck case.

Please do keep an eye on the progress of related news of this deck, especially the the tuck case design. I can promise that it will remind you the feeling of watching "Fight Club", which will change your entire perception of what this deck really is about, and you will then find out this deck really is like something that you have never seen before ...and...of course, "VERY ORIGINAL".

Cheers,
Zenneth

Don Boyer · « **Reply #32 on:** July 02, 2012, 06:45:52 PM »

As usual, Zenneth, thanks for checking in! I'm looking forward to seeing all the aspects of your new project.

Evan · « **Reply #33 on:** July 03, 2012, 07:19:33 PM »

I love these! The Bee design never gets old and with gold ink on black and silver ink on black, it must look incredible!
I completely support these and will be picking a few up.

NathanCanadas · « **Reply #34 on:** July 04, 2012, 04:48:50 PM »

Quote from: Evan on July 03, 2012, 07:19:33 PM

I love these! The Bee design never gets old and with gold ink on black and silver ink on black, it must look incredible!
I completely support these and will be picking a few up.

Same here. These are meant for magicians, not to stare at for their beauty. I find them very different and elegant, yet useful.

Zenneth · « **Reply #35 on:** October 28, 2012, 05:28:53 AM »

Hey guys,

Here's an update on the Project C that I have been working on for awhile.

C stands for Coterie.

Project C is not just a deck of cards, rather it's a platform and organization primarily serving professional magicians, so we will be releasing quite some items for professional magicians and playing cards, of course.

For now, I guess I'll just share with you guys the part of C which most people here care about.

The first deck from C is a custom Bee and it's a limited edition of 5200 decks.

Casino grade Bee stock
Standard card faces
2 Gaff cards
2 identical jokers

Initially, the Coterie Bee was not meant to be a limited edition, until USPCC said the design of King of Hearts gaff card infringed their copyrights policy,
however, this was after we signed the contract and made deposit.

We were requested to change the design or accept their proposed design, but we insisted the original King of Hearts gaff to be printed as it has a least two effects built in, obviously their proposed design will not facilitate the effects, also, any delay in manufacturing will further delay our launch, which we cannot afford. As a matter of fact, we still haven't received uncut sheets from USPCC as we speak now, so I think that shows the necessity of insistence on printing the original design.

Finally, USPCC decided to make an exception and print the original King of Hearts Gaff, but they also made it clear that they will not print this design in the future.

Due to this change of situation, this edition of the Coterie Bee becomes a limited edition.

This deck will be available at our official website: Coterie1902.com
You can also follow us on twitter @Coterie1902

We will be launching on 31st this month at 19:02(UTC+8).

Let me know if you have any question about the Coterie Bee, I'll be more than happy to answer.

Cheers,
Zenneth

Don Boyer · « **Reply #36 on:** October 28, 2012, 06:11:18 AM »

Zenneth, thank you so very much for bringing this information to us! It's greatly appreciated.

I'm actually in shock that they're trying to defend their King (and by extension their other court cards) like this. They've been around long enough to be public domain - copyright law should not apply. I think Bee is the oldest deck currently in print, going back to before Russell and Morgan became the US Playing Card Company. Their legal department is getting more and more overzealous by the deck.

As time goes on, will you explain to us more about "the Coterie"? The organization as well as the deck?

The 5,200-deck print run - is that 2,600 silver and 2,600 gold, or is it 5,200 of each color?

Will you be offering uncut sheets of this deck?

Any word on what the price will be? Will it ship from Hong Kong alone, or also from the US and/or other countries?

For the benefit of the temporally-challenged, the release time of 19:02 in Hong Kong is:
11:02 Greenwich Mean Time (UTC)
7:02am US/Canada Eastern (DST still in effect)
3:02am US/Canada Pacific (ditto)

So if you Americans and Canadians want in on this deck, be prepared for an early morning wake-up on Halloween...

I'm going to merge this with the original topic and the new title.

Zenneth · « **Reply #37 on:** October 28, 2012, 07:46:26 AM »

Don,

Thanks a lot for the reply.

About this gaff King of Hearts...accroding to USPCC:

the King of Hearts design infringed their copyrights policy, as they do not allow the alternation on card back design anymore(but you can do whatever you like with the card face).

You can change the color scheme of Diamond Back and get it printed, but not to the extent like we made with the KH gaff.

In this case, the KH gaff design changed their Bee diamond back pattern. USPCC said this kind of alternation will always be evaluted on a case by case basis, but even that, it's not suggested.

What I don't understand is that why not they inform us during the process of evalution, instead of 2 days before the manufacture.

So, the 5200 decks of Coterie Bee is just one color, the gold version. With Bee the minimum quantity to print is 5000 instead of 2500.

Anyway, despite the limited quantity and a KH gaff that will never be able to print again, Coterie Bee playing cards will be available at a reasonable price of $8USD a deck.

All the decks will be ship out from Hong Kong, Coterie have made custom mailling box and packing bag, so everything will be packed in Hong Kong for shipment.

Though, aside from the custom packing and the incident with KH gaff, initially we do wanted to work with distributors from other countries for ths release, except China. Almot every China playing cards distributors undercut the price of each other, we have seen many new decks made available in China at the wholesale price during their price war, and we don't want to see the same with our deks, so for the chinese market we will do the retail on our own. I believe C will work more closely with overseas distributors on future releases.

We will be offering Uncut sheets, and here is yet another legendary story about the Coterie Bee uncut sheets:

We ordered 54 uncut sheets, 52 of these uncut sheets will be available, however, USPCC forgot to pull the sheets out from the machine before cutting them. So, they suggested to replace the uncut sheets and sending us some set box instead, of course we cannot accept the replacement, especially, knowing that the KH gaff will not be printed again.

USPCC had to make another run on the printing machine, and everytime they start the machine, at least 2500 sheets will be printed, that's why they have the minimum quantity of 2500 decks requirement for custom deck, accroding to them, they stop the machine prematurely, so that a little more than 1000 uncut sheets were printed, but we really don't intend to make more than 52 uncuts available,so they scraped all the remaining uncut sheets and ship us the 54.

Because of this situation, the uncut sheets were not shipped to us with the decks, it's still no the way and won't arrive Hong Kong until 10th Nov., so we can only expect to make the uncut sheets available by the end of next month.

The full name of Coterie is "Coterie of Prestidigitation Artists", a registered organization that promotes the art of magic (card manipulation and cardistry as well), you can see it as a magic society at this point, I think we will show a clear idea of what it is by the events we will organize in the futue.

Coterie1902.com is the store/brand name of this society, in which CPA members creations will be released and published.

Hope this helps,
Zenneth

Don Boyer · « **Reply #38 on:** October 28, 2012, 11:57:51 AM »

Zenneth, you've been an absolute wealth of information here and I mean it sincerely that you've been fantastic in bringing it to us. I know you can be a very busy man at times, like any professional magician, and the fact that you took the time out of your busy schedule to present us with all of this and in great detail is beyond what anyone could expect!

As usual, it's a sincere pleasure having you here - feel welcome at any time!

I know they've been trying hard to defend against forgeries. I worked with Bill Schildman about two years ago tracking down counterfeit Bee decks here in America that were believed to have originated from somewhere in China. He's also taken similar measures with the Bicycle Rider Back deck, refusing to allow any modifications to the back design, and no USPC deck using their faces can have an altered Joker or Ace of Spades face, either - though one is welcome to submit replacement faces that are similar without being too close to identical.

Technically, it's not copyright law that they're trying to use to protect their oldest and most valued brands such as Bicycle and Bee. They're trying on the grounds of trademark law. The designs used on both deck backs are too old under US and International Law to have copyright protection and are considered public domain; however, trademark law is a different story and a trademark can be defended for the life of the company.

Personally, I've never seen a gaffed Bee deck or card before other than a well-made stripper deck; not even one that's marked (which I'm assuming is now also no longer permitted, since they aren't for Rider Backs). I can't wait to place my order!

What are the plans regarding the silver design you showed us earlier this year? Will this be a future release or has the color been scrapped?

I wonder if USPC would permit you to create gaffed Fan Back cards...

I'm going to quote a section of our comments to put into a new topic in the Magical Cardistry Bonanza board - your Coterie of Prestidigitation Artists sounds like it would be about a lot more than just playing cards and that would be a great place to discuss it.

Thank you, again!

Zenneth · « **Reply #39 on:** October 28, 2012, 03:59:00 PM »

No problem Don, thank you very much for your support.

Most of my forth coming bookings are local roving magic gigs, I don't have to fly out until Dec, so it's actually great that I can spend more time with C right now.

There is a double back gaff card which shows the silver color on one side, personally I think it looks great from some distance, but not so much in a closer view, unless the customers telling us otherwise, if not then some adjustment on the color scheme will be needed before releasing it.

hmmm...and I don't think USPCC will allow me to make gaffed New Fan Back, they said it's best to print a completely original back design and the gaffed cards of them, which I will make it happen

Yes, C is certainly more than just playing cards, while playing cards will be an essential part of Coterie1902.com, but CPA itself is more concerned with offline activities and most importantly, CPA will strive to uphold the value of magic in greater China area.

It's a very nice gesture of you to start topics for C on the Magical Cardistry Bonanza board, we are always be happy to be of help to people that are interested in our releases.

Cheers,
Zenneth

Zenneth · « **Reply #40 on:** October 31, 2012, 07:58:35 AM »

Coterie1902.com is now online, please take a look of all the amazing items that we prepared for all of you.

Best,
Zenneth

sway · « **Reply #41 on:** October 31, 2012, 10:03:17 AM »

Shouldn't the price for 3 decks be a little lower considering the price for 1 deck?

I mean, paying $39 for 3 decks is the same as buying 3 decks separately, since each one is $13, and shipping is included.

Just saying.

Zenneth · « **Reply #42 on:** October 31, 2012, 10:09:48 AM »

Dear Sway,

We didn't say this on the official site, but actually, starting with 3 decks, we will be using a completely different packing.

Customized Coterie mailing box will be used for 3 decks or more quantity purchase.

When you see the mailing box, I am sure you will be very pleased with it.

Thanks,
Zenneth

sway · « **Reply #43 on:** October 31, 2012, 10:28:47 AM »

Thanks for the clarifications, Zenneth.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #44 on:** October 31, 2012, 10:28:59 AM »

Quote from: Zenneth on October 31, 2012, 10:09:48 AM

Dear Sway,

We didn't say this on the official site, but actually, starting with 3 decks, we will be using a completely different packing.

Customized Coterie mailing box will be used for 3 decks or more quantity purchase.

When you see the mailing box, I am sure you will be very pleased with it.

Thanks,
Zenneth

Makes me glad I ordered three! I would have ordered more if I had more in the bank right now.

Zenneth · « **Reply #45 on:** October 31, 2012, 12:43:22 PM »

I too wish we could show more information of Coterie1902 on time, but I'll be very honest with you all, the custom Coterie mailing boxes/paper bags just arrived us yesterday,so we really haven't had enough time to take proper photos of them.

We will try our very best to keep updating the site and supply you with more information and details.

Thanks again for the support from all of you.

Best,
Zenneth

Knobz1 · « **Reply #46 on:** October 31, 2012, 12:45:16 PM »

Man, Im really digging these as well! Trying to decide how many I should get. Little pricier than I had thought but not bad.

sr15 · « **Reply #47 on:** October 31, 2012, 04:14:16 PM »

the decks look great but 13 bucks per deck pre-shipping is a little steep

DC · « **Reply #48 on:** October 31, 2012, 04:39:44 PM »

Dear Zenneth,

May I ask if the Black New Fan Black decks from the "Black and White New Fan Black Promotion" of the coterie1902.com/store are 1st or 2nd (reprint) print please?

Thank you very much!

Regards,
Doris

CBJ · « **Reply #49 on:** October 31, 2012, 05:05:32 PM »

Hey guys,

Here is the pic of the mailing box. You need to understand something... this IS the shipping box. Stamps/labels/etc.. will be stuck to this box. Instead of using a brown shipping box, they are using these...

( click for larger view )