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Playing Card Chat ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦ => Playing Card Plethora => Topic started by: Don Boyer on September 12, 2012, 02:54:06 AM
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I'm kind of surprised that after it's been batted around every now and then for weeks, NO ONE has created a topic for the new Sultan Republic deck due out presumably by year's end.
Let's hear it, gang - what are your thoughts? Do you hate or love what some are calling a "Skulkor-like" campaign urging people to "Join the Rebellion"? Any speculation on what the deck will look like? Better yet, do you (gasp) have PHOTOS you can share with the class?
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Well,
I think E has been hoarding all the pics for themselves.
Sultan looks like its going to be a much simpler deck than Arcane or Infinity, perhaps to simple?
The the box looks something like the Verve deck or Black crown.
And with the whole "join the republic" thing, I'm not to sure about this one.
I hope it's good. This deck could be E's downfall.
Or the best deck since Artifice.
Only time will tell,
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Viral campaigns can either be really awesome, or ridiculously cheesy, and I think this one falls into the latter category with the Skulkor campaign.
It says nothing about the deck, which may be amazing or terrible in its own respect.
Ken, where did you find that image.?
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Viral campaigns can either be really awesome, or ridiculously cheesy, and I think this one falls into the latter category with the Skulkor campaign.
It says nothing about the deck, which may be amazing or terrible in its own respect.
Ken, where did you find that image.?
I got it in an email for Brad along with some other E stuff.
It looks like they also have a completely new deck that no one is talking about!
But this is the other pic, it had the caption
"A blurred king, half heart. Join the Republic."
I guess it looks kind of cool.
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These pics can also be found in threads on this forum
"New Ellusionist Deck - July? "
http://aethercards.com/discourse/playing-card-plethora/new-ellusionist-deck-july/msg53130/#msg53130 (http://aethercards.com/discourse/playing-card-plethora/new-ellusionist-deck-july/msg53130/#msg53130)
"Ellusionist - Is Something Coming? "
http://aethercards.com/discourse/playing-card-plethora/ellusionist-is-something-coming/msg54589/#msg54589 (http://aethercards.com/discourse/playing-card-plethora/ellusionist-is-something-coming/msg54589/#msg54589)
and I attached a pic that was posted at UC
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These pics can also be found in threads on this forum
"New Ellusionist Deck - July? "
http://aethercards.com/discourse/playing-card-plethora/new-ellusionist-deck-july/msg53130/#msg53130 (http://aethercards.com/discourse/playing-card-plethora/new-ellusionist-deck-july/msg53130/#msg53130)
"Ellusionist - Is Something Coming? "
http://aethercards.com/discourse/playing-card-plethora/ellusionist-is-something-coming/msg54589/#msg54589 (http://aethercards.com/discourse/playing-card-plethora/ellusionist-is-something-coming/msg54589/#msg54589)
and I attached a pic that was posted at UC
Thanks for the photo. I see they're still sticking to a "gritty & urban" marketing scheme. Surprise, surprise... :))
I like gritty/urban, but practically every deck they sell has a similar visual theme in their ad campaigns.
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http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151071401376161&set=a.10150578138596161.375050.61472466160&type=1&theater
guess we have some news on the sultan
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Pretty sure those kinds of leaves don't grow in the desert.
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This deck is turning out nothing like I imagined!
The previous teaser pictures made it seem that Ellusionist is going to be releasing something similar to Skulkor. Now, this picture makes it seem that Sultan is some kind of luxurious paradise. Who know?
I like their tagline though: "Join the Republic. Border opens October 24." - Nearly one more week.
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Yeah that took a major thematic shift I think. I'm glad though, this looks far more interesting than the standard dark and gritty motif we've seen way too much of in the card world. If anything in that image in terms of colors or design gets rolled into the deck, it will quite a different animal from the rest of their stuff, which is great! New ideas > rehash of old. (IMO anyways...)
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Has it even been confirmed anywhere that this is in fact a deck?
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Has it even been confirmed anywhere that this is in fact a deck?
Did you miss the sneak-peek photos of the tuck box? It's a deck.
http://aethercards.com/discourse/playing-card-plethora/new-ellusionist-deck-july/?all
Three decks are mentioned, this is one of them. Didn't you get the memo, er, I mean email? :)
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And here are some pics of the deck
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And here are some pics of the deck
Wait - you know the difference between a deck and an uncut, right? (Just pulling your leg!)
I remember seeing those photos around somewhere recently. Not long to wait for these. I don't know just how special they're going to be - I did see what looked like a king of hearts in the earlier post about this deck (I have a topic for it at the top of "Company Projects" in the NDR, now titled something like "2 more unnamed decks" from E). That KoH had a split heart design, half white, half red, but in all other ways appeared to be just another USPC KoH - if that's all that's special, some people are going to be disappointed.
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From the looks of it, this deck is really nothing special. Ellusionist teased it as being the next best thing, as all companies do, but to me, it looks like a variant of the Rebels because of the circular design. Who know? Maybe Ellusionist might be giving away some sticker packs as well!
Also, how does the teaser picture (the one that looks like paradise) have anything to do with this deck. Did Ellustionist just think it looked nice a background.
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The way I see it is nothing is certain until the deck comes out. ;)
My guess is the deck may have some arabian nights elements to it.
I am looking forward to see this deck and see if this is the next best thing from E!
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From the looks of it, this deck is really nothing special. Ellusionist teased it as being the next best thing, as all companies do, but to me, it looks like a variant of the Rebels because of the circular design. Who know? Maybe Ellusionist might be giving away some sticker packs as well!
Also, how does the teaser picture (the one that looks like paradise) have anything to do with this deck. Did Ellustionist just think it looked nice a background.
Ellusionist did tease it - but it was the community that hyped it. Can't blame E - sort of.
So, since the Rebel deck had a circular pattern similar to Bicycle Rider Backs or Tally Ho Fan Backs, we should simply stop designing decks with such patterns?
Hmm... image of an Arabian paradise... title has the word "Sultan" in it... and you can't see a connection? :))
The way I see it is nothing is certain until the deck comes out. ;)
My guess is the deck may have some arabian nights elements to it.
I am looking forward to see this deck and see if this is the next best thing from E!
If the deck is the deck in think it is, it has few such accents on the faces, if any. But then again, that was from a series of teaser photos that are now, what, four months old? Considering that there was a release planned for September and it got pushed deep into October, I'm thinking it's possible there were some serious design changes made, for better or worse. We'll see next week.
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So, since the Rebel deck had a circular pattern similar to Bicycle Rider Backs or Tally Ho Fan Backs, we should simply stop designing decks with such patterns?
Well, yes, i'm saying the layout is a little bit redundant when it comes from three companies, each having a different theme. Furthermore, I wouldn't neccessarily list the Tally-Ho's as part of this "circular" group. Although it does have five circles in the back design, what I'm referring to are the cards with two circles in the middle, such as the Rebels, traditional Bikes, and now, the Sultan's.
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Sigh. Black and white and a general pattern we've seen many times. With the theme and teasers I had envisioned something so much more adventurous and interesting! Think of all the visuals your imagination whips up when you hear "sultan" or "desert kingdom" or "oasis!" What a let down.
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So, since the Rebel deck had a circular pattern similar to Bicycle Rider Backs or Tally Ho Fan Backs, we should simply stop designing decks with such patterns?
Well, yes, i'm saying the layout is a little bit redundant when it comes from three companies, each having a different theme. Furthermore, I wouldn't neccessarily list the Tally-Ho's as part of this "circular" group. Although it does have five circles in the back design, what I'm referring to are the cards with two circles in the middle, such as the Rebels, traditional Bikes, and now, the Sultan's.
Circular patterns as you describe are popular for a reason - it's easy to create a symmetrical back which the consumer will immediately recognize as a symmetrical back.
Sigh. Black and white and a general pattern we've seen many times. With the theme and teasers I had envisioned something so much more adventurous and interesting! Think of all the visuals your imagination whips up when you hear "sultan" or "desert kingdom" or "oasis!" What a let down.
I'm withholding judgment until I actually see the cards. Those teaser images are a little too vague for me.
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Release Date: October 24th, 2012
Where: www.ellusionist.com
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Looks so AWESOME!!!
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Looks to me like that's the deck box. Either way, I hope it's tri-colored, but by the looks of it, it's not.
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Looks to me like that's the deck box. Either way, I hope it's tri-colored, but by the looks of it, it's not.
Why tri-colored? What's that mean?
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Tri-Colored = Having three colors
When I said I'd like the back design to be tri-colored, I wanted it to have three colors, instead of the two colors teased earlier. Standard Bicycle Back Designs are dual-colored, meaning they have two colors on their back design. An example of a tri-colored back design would be the emerald Artifices, because they have three colors: green, black, and white.
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Release Date: October 24th, 2012
Where: www.ellusionist.com (http://www.ellusionist.com)
Hmm... It's beginning to look a lot like Rebels... And is that a leather close-up pad in the background?
Tri-Colored = Having three colors
When I said I'd like the back design to be tri-colored, I wanted it to have three colors, instead of the two colors teased earlier. Standard Bicycle Back Designs are dual-colored, meaning they have two colors on their back design. An example of a tri-colored back design would be the emerald Artifices, because they have three colors: green, black, and white.
Don't they also have a silver metallic ink in them? I mean, I know you can count and all... :))
Some decks go whole-hog and have a "full-color" back, lots of different colors. But it's not like they use a huge number of different colors of ink. There's a reason why the print files have to be in CMYK format: Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and blacK (a "B" would be confusing, since blue also starts with a B). Only four colors, but blended to create a rainbow of colors. It's why when the Tendril deck was printed, eight different plates were used - one for each of those four colors and each side of the cards.
The biggest reason why most basic playing cards are monochrome in design - just a color on a white background - is because it makes printing the deck cheaper. Only one plate needs to be used, and with no shading involved, regardless of what that one color is. The ink can be simply blended into the correct proportions and the back takes only a single pass through a single press to get printed. It wasn't even until Artifice that E was using more than a single color.
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Release Date: October 24th, 2012
Where: www.ellusionist.com (http://www.ellusionist.com)
Hmm... It's beginning to look a lot like Rebels... And is that a leather close-up pad in the background?
It looks nothing like the rebels.
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It looks nothing like the rebels.
Really? Let's do a quick comparison.
Black box. Rebels? Check. SR? Check.
Silver foil on box. Rebels? Check. SR? Check again.
Classic "two circle" design on card back. Rebels? Check. SR? Check the third.
Back of cards on SR uncut appear to be monochrome black, JUST LIKE THE REBELS?
CHECK. And mate! :))
I'm not saying they're identical. But I am saying that based on what we've seen, they share a lot in common.
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It looks nothing like the rebels.
Really? Let's do a quick comparison.
Black box. Rebels? Check. SR? Check.
Silver foil on box. Rebels? Check. SR? Check again.
Classic "two circle" design on card back. Rebels? Check. SR? Check the third.
Back of cards on SR uncut appear to be monochrome black, JUST LIKE THE REBELS?
CHECK. And mate! :))
I'm not saying they're identical. But I am saying that based on what we've seen, they share a lot in common.
Sultan box is not black. It's in fact two color, dark blue and grey blue.
Silver foil, sure it's got that.
Two circles, sure. It's not the last deck to have it either.
The back of the cards are blue, not black.
So in fact, this is very much NOT like the Rebels.
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These look promising!
COUNTDOWN: http://www.ellusionist.com/sultan-republic-playing-cards.html
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Judging from the countdown clock, the release is at 20:00 UTC
or...all in Daylight Saving Time...
4PM Eastern
3PM Central
2PM Mountain
1PM Pacific
It looks nothing like the rebels.
Really? Let's do a quick comparison.
Black box. Rebels? Check. SR? Check.
Silver foil on box. Rebels? Check. SR? Check again.
Classic "two circle" design on card back. Rebels? Check. SR? Check the third.
Back of cards on SR uncut appear to be monochrome black, JUST LIKE THE REBELS?
CHECK. And mate! :))
I'm not saying they're identical. But I am saying that based on what we've seen, they share a lot in common.
Sultan box is not black. It's in fact two color, dark blue and grey blue.
Silver foil, sure it's got that.
Two circles, sure. It's not the last deck to have it either.
The back of the cards are blue, not black.
So in fact, this is very much NOT like the Rebels.
Bro, please. Dark colors that can easily be confused with black in the poorly-detailed images they've presented. If you can't see the similarity, you're only deluding yourself.
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lol whatever old man.
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Kcaso, you're new around here, so one word of advice: Don't diss the moderators, especially Don.
You may not agree with him, but there's no place for disrespect around here.
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http://www.ellusionist.com/sultan-republic-playing-cards.html
Looks pretty black, but then again Chinatowns looked pretty red.
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lol whatever old man.
At least I'm not the one who needs his eyes checked...
The picture below...it doesn't look terribly blue at all, does it? More like BLACK with SILVER FOIL... Reminds me of a deck I saw somewhere... What was it called again? Oh, yeah - REBELS. I mean, I could be wrong, since photos are often tweaked and the subject's true colors don't always shine through, as LauR stated - and if I am, I'll be big enough to admit it. Just like you weren't big enough to take a little gentle ribbing.
And, just between us (and the whole damn board), talking shit to people doesn't impress us, especially when it comes from a n00b. For all you knew, I was a designer from Ellusionist or Theory11 or the Blue Crown - we do get some "name-brand" people around here now and then. How stupid would you look then? Well, worse than you do now - and that's not easy to top.
Now, let's try to be a little friendlier - OK? Play nice with the other kids. First impressions do tend to last and are hard to shake when they're negative ones.
Kcaso, you're new around here, so one word of advice: Don't diss the moderators, especially Don.
You may not agree with him, but there's no place for disrespect around here.
Much appreciated. But it should apply to more than just moderators. It should apply to anyone around here with a reputation for being straight shooters and who know what they're talking about.
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At least this deck doesnt have a building on it like the Rebels.
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At least this deck doesnt have a building on it like the Rebels.
Hey, I liked the Capitol Building on that deck. It reminded me of some early Congress designs. I'm thinking they were borrowing from the idea that America was essentially founded by a bunch of rebels. At least it was accurate.
Looking at the awful images of the back we've seen so far (in terms of true perspective and clear angle), I certainly don't see any buildings. But it still looks a helluva lot like the Rebels deck to me. That whole "split-suit" thing they're doing - I'm not sure I'm going to find that attractive at all.
Time will tell. About 14.5 hours, in fact.
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Sultan box is not black. It's in fact two color, dark blue and grey blue.
So in fact, this is very much NOT like the Rebels.
Why do you think these are Dark Blue and not Black?
They look Black in ALL of the photos of the actual Tuck Box.
The only photo that has a tint of Blue is the original teaser of the Tuck flat
on the computer, and that is probably from the glare of the computer screen!
I was looking forward to these as I think Ellusionist does some of the nicest designs,
but like most here I am disappointed by the final product. The Back Design looks like it
could belong in the same Series as the Rebels! Rebels = U.S. and Sultans = Middle East.
If D&D switches up their Chinatown Decks to Black with Yin Yangs on the top and bottom
they could sell the 3 decks as a matching multi-cultural Set!
thanks, Randy
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These are now available!
I picked up 2. I'm super excited to receive these. I love the look of the faces. The backs look decent but it seems that the pictures on there are very blurry and show nothing.
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I was a little excited for this deck, but it's disappointing that most of the work went into the box. While the half-stripe treatment for the pips is nice, JAQK Cellars did it better.
Also, the "harem" tidbits on the Sultan Republic overview pages weren't necessary.
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I actually didn't know these were coming out until today. Much like the Rebels, I am underwhelmed with the design and I probably won't pick up any of these for a while. I will say that I do think these look better than the Rebels. The box design is definitely better and the faces are better by default since the Rebels are standard faces, although I will give a slight edge to the Rebels in back design.
Either way, big ol' meh on the deck. There are quite a few decks out there that I want far more than these to justify spending money on them now.
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Wow! A double dose of of Daniel Madison within around two weeks. It's like we can't get enough!
As for the deck, I really like it, more than I did previously. Although it has hints of Rebel in it, I'm pretty sure the Sultan would be pleased with this deck as we are. I honestly love how the pips are split and that there is just so much detail in one simple card. It's also amazing how all the leaves found on the deck are able to fit into the theme. I'd say that this would be another success for Ellusionist.
By the way, who is the "Sultan" they are referring to?
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By the way, who is the "Sultan" they are referring to?
You don't want to know. ::)
Am I the only one who noticed the non-standard indices? Seems to be the same typeface, but without the serif.
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with a bit metallic ink back design this deck could've been much better.
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first E deck I wont be buying very disappointed.
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-sigh-
What is it exactly that you guys don't like? There's so many comments about being disappointed, but so little explanation. Does every deck that's release have to have metallic, full-custom court cards and a crapload of gimmick features?
It's really annoying to see that so many people say they're "disappointed" yet fail to see even the simplest details in a deck. You guys have been so stuffed with the big things that you don't see the subtlety anymore.
Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but at least try to have an educated one.
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It doesn't have to be any specific thing, but in general I am underwhelmed with the deck. A few factors would probably be the increasing quality of designs in decks, the increasing competition in decks with so many kickstarters and custom decks being released, and the far greater than average hype that comes with decks like these compared to decks released by smaller companies/individuals. Also it can come down to personal taste, and personally the deck just doesn't do it for me.
I can appreciate simplicity in design. White Lions, for example, are one of my favorite decks and the design is very simple. Conversely, I just bought the new seasons decks and those look phenomenal. I only have so much money and when my choices are between sultans/rebels and the seasons decks, it's no contest for me.
And don't get me wrong, I usually love the decks that Ellusionist puts outs. I would say the purple artifice deck is my favorite design, and I love the designs of the Arcane decks and Shadow Masters. Maybe part of me not liking these decks is due to higher expectations for Ellusionist/T11, who usually make awesome decks.
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-sigh-
What is it exactly that you guys don't like? There's so many comments about being disappointed, but so little explanation. Does every deck that's release have to have metallic, full-custom court cards and a crapload of gimmick features?
I already pretty much answered this, but I'll just emphasize that as competition increases in design, with more and more decks coming out with lots of customization, very intricate and beautiful designs, metallic ink and whatever else, the standard for decks is constantly being raised. I do appreciate a simple design (again some of my favorite decks include White Lions, Vintage Plaid, Bee Stingers, etc.).
It's really annoying to see that so many people say they're "disappointed" yet fail to see even the simplest details in a deck. You guys have been so stuffed with the big things that you don't see the subtlety anymore.
Maybe you'd like to point out some of these details that we so clearly missed? I'm not quite so sure what you mean by simple details in these decks since the Rebels/Sultans actually have pretty detailed back designs. You can put a lot of detail in a back design, but it can still feel uninspired.
A lot of times it does come down to personal taste, and I'll use the comparison of White Lions and Players as an example. The designs are very similar in style, and have a simple yet elegant feel to them. I wasn't a fan of the Players partially because there was too much blank space on the back design that made it feel empty. Also because there wasn't a ton of hype surrounding the deck that ended up being a letdown.
Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but at least try to have an educated one.
and lol at this. Who made you the expert on what constitutes good personal taste in a back design? Probably the most pretentious thing I've seen on these forums
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-sigh-
What is it exactly that you guys don't like? There's so many comments about being disappointed, but so little explanation. Does every deck that's release have to have metallic, full-custom court cards and a crapload of gimmick features?
I already pretty much answered this, but I'll just emphasize that as competition increases in design, with more and more decks coming out with lots of customization, very intricate and beautiful designs, metallic ink and whatever else, the standard for decks is constantly being raised. I do appreciate a simple design (again some of my favorite decks include White Lions, Vintage Plaid, Bee Stingers, etc.).
It's really annoying to see that so many people say they're "disappointed" yet fail to see even the simplest details in a deck. You guys have been so stuffed with the big things that you don't see the subtlety anymore.
Maybe you'd like to point out some of these details that we so clearly missed? I'm not quite so sure what you mean by simple details in these decks since the Rebels/Sultans actually have pretty detailed back designs. You can put a lot of detail in a back design, but it can still feel uninspired.
A lot of times it does come down to personal taste, and I'll use the comparison of White Lions and Players as an example. The designs are very similar in style, and have a simple yet elegant feel to them. I wasn't a fan of the Players partially because there was too much blank space on the back design that made it feel empty. Also because there wasn't a ton of hype surrounding the deck that ended up being a letdown.
Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but at least try to have an educated one.
and lol at this. Who made you the expert on what constitutes good personal taste in a back design? Probably the most pretentious thing I've seen on these forums
It's funny how correct sr15 is, you say there is no explanation of why we're not impressed by this deck then list the very reasons we stated, derp?
Your second argument is highly flawed, if individuals say they were "underwhelmed" or "disappointed," then clearly they did see the subtlety, but that it was too bland/simple. They recognise the deck is not too cluttered, not too outreaching, or subtle as you put it (which seems to be an incorrect use of the term as subtle implies there is an overall detail or theme being expressed by the lack of detail, which you do not mention or explain) but due to this are disappointed. furthermore, rather than a subtle design, the term simple may have been the more correct choice.
Furthermore, as sr15 has pointed out your final statement is hilarious. How do you have an educated opinion about a deck design. Are you meant to quote techniques used in the printing or design? Presumably not, as that would be a quite unreasonable and unrealistic. If anything, the opinions stated on this forums should be paid attention to by the big playing cards company as it is valuable first-hand feedback from their target market.
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-sigh-
What is it exactly that you guys don't like? There's so many comments about being disappointed, but so little explanation. Does every deck that's release have to have metallic, full-custom court cards and a crapload of gimmick features?
It's really annoying to see that so many people say they're "disappointed" yet fail to see even the simplest details in a deck. You guys have been so stuffed with the big things that you don't see the subtlety anymore.
Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but at least try to have an educated one.
You know, Moon, I agree with that statement completely. I'm going to grant this deck has a nice back design and fronts but its nothing special and certainly not anything I'd rush out for. Adding to what you said, I'd like to bring up one important thing that no one has talked about or even considered. It's somewhat worrying. What I wanted to bring up was; HANDLING. Who here gives a flying caboodle? Honestly, does no one care? It's a trend I've noticed of late. Also, a deck, like Moon said, doesn't always have to have the whole bells and whistles on it with custom court cards and metallic inks. That 's what everybody focuses on. Take Aladdins and Arrcos for example, beautiful cards and they handle nicely, Yet they don't need all of those fandangled things. Sure, those things are nice, but not exactly aesthetically necessary. Just my 10 cents worth on the topic...
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My primary disappointment with these is that there are literally dozens (if not more) of decks that are black and white, feature some "designey stuff" inside two circular areas, is symmetrical and features mostly standard faces. It's not to say these decks don't look nice on their own, but the lack of creativity in a general sense personally disappoints me. There are literally unlimited options for designing a deck but time and again we see the same core theme and it's tiresome. If they spent 6 months working on the box, they had plenty of time to explore other things, even simply making it not black could have set it apart.
I have all the other E decks and they are all great, and handle better than most. But they have the market and opportunity to do so much more. If I can somehow manage to do a fancy box AND a fully custom deck all by myself while squeezing my design time in between changing diapers and reading stories, I'd think T11 and E could do the same.
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It's also called the "Sultan," its quite all right to say yes a deck doesn't need to be all decked out as it were with metallic ink, or fancy designs, but when your essentially calling yourself king, I'd expect the theme to follow on with the name.
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-sigh-
What is it exactly that you guys don't like? There's so many comments about being disappointed, but so little explanation. Does every deck that's release have to have metallic, full-custom court cards and a crapload of gimmick features?
I already pretty much answered this, but I'll just emphasize that as competition increases in design, with more and more decks coming out with lots of customization, very intricate and beautiful designs, metallic ink and whatever else, the standard for decks is constantly being raised. I do appreciate a simple design (again some of my favorite decks include White Lions, Vintage Plaid, Bee Stingers, etc.).
It's really annoying to see that so many people say they're "disappointed" yet fail to see even the simplest details in a deck. You guys have been so stuffed with the big things that you don't see the subtlety anymore.
Maybe you'd like to point out some of these details that we so clearly missed? I'm not quite so sure what you mean by simple details in these decks since the Rebels/Sultans actually have pretty detailed back designs. You can put a lot of detail in a back design, but it can still feel uninspired.
A lot of times it does come down to personal taste, and I'll use the comparison of White Lions and Players as an example. The designs are very similar in style, and have a simple yet elegant feel to them. I wasn't a fan of the Players partially because there was too much blank space on the back design that made it feel empty. Also because there wasn't a ton of hype surrounding the deck that ended up being a letdown.
Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but at least try to have an educated one.
and lol at this. Who made you the expert on what constitutes good personal taste in a back design? Probably the most pretentious thing I've seen on these forums
Sr15, he does design work - do you? He does have a clearer idea of the REASONS why a deck is or isn't well-defined. Perhaps you're the one that's being pretentious?
When someone tosses out the idea that "metallic ink would make this better" - in what way would that make it better? Should they have simply splattered it all over the place? That statement is not an educated one. The same applies to someone who simply tosses out that they're "disappointed" but doesn't say why.
Your opinion actually had some of the thought behind it that he was looking for, smartass. You gave details for why you felt what you felt in terms of the design.
Make sure the next time you touch the keyboard with the intent of disrespecting someone in the community for no intelligent reason, shift your brain into drive for a few minutes first. You'll find that you go much further and people will give a damn about what you're saying. And if you think that's the most pretentious thing here, you haven't been around much, have you?
It's funny how correct sr15 is, you say there is no explanation of why we're not impressed by this deck then list the very reasons we stated, derp?
Your second argument is highly flawed, if individuals say they were "underwhelmed" or "disappointed," then clearly they did see the subtlety, but that it was too bland/simple. They recognise the deck is not too cluttered, not too outreaching, or subtle as you put it (which seems to be an incorrect use of the term as subtle implies there is an overall detail or theme being expressed by the lack of detail, which you do not mention or explain) but due to this are disappointed. furthermore, rather than a subtle design, the term simple may have been the more correct choice.
Furthermore, as sr15 has pointed out your final statement is hilarious. How do you have an educated opinion about a deck design. Are you meant to quote techniques used in the printing or design? Presumably not, as that would be a quite unreasonable and unrealistic. If anything, the opinions stated on this forums should be paid attention to by the big playing cards company as it is valuable first-hand feedback from their target market.
I'll that this a paragraph at a time.
First: allow me to quote you - AGAIN.
with a bit metallic ink back design this deck could've been much better.
Your sentence structure is atrocious. I make the occasional typo but that sentence is incomplete as written. But let's put that aside for now - in what way does adding metallic ink improve this deck's design? Where would you add it? What colors? You give ZERO details, none. We aren't mind readers, so we have no freakin' idea of what you're talking about, and not because it's somehow over our heads.
Second: someone who simply states they're "underwhelmed" or "disappointed" isn't necessarily saying they've seen a single iota of the design's subtlety. And read this from Google Dictionary:
subtle - adj.
[/size][/color]- (esp. of a change or distinction) So delicate or precise as to be difficult to analyze or describe.
- (of a mixture or effect) Delicately complex and understated.
[/list]So before you complain or make statements about subtlety (or any other fifty-cent word), you might actually want to learn what it MEANS, first. It has ZERO to do with a lack of detail, everything to do with understated complexity - it's practically the opposite of a lack of detail. It implies greater, less obvious detail - so you really couldn't assume someone spotted that when they say nothing about it.
And finally, paragraph three. The person you're talking about? You have ZERO knowledge of who he is. He actually does have some idea about design, seeing as how he's been putting together a deck of his own that looks great, based on the preliminary artwork. So, he does in fact speak with authority rather than speaking out of his ass...
So far, you've added up to triple-zeroes... And all the man was asking for was an actual, honest reason as to why people were so quick to pan the deck without offering a solid reason about why.
You know, Moon, I agree with that statement completely. I'm going to grant this deck has a nice back design and fronts but its nothing special and certainly not anything I'd rush out for. Adding to what you said, I'd like to bring up one important thing that no one has talked about or even considered. It's somewhat worrying. What I wanted to bring up was; HANDLING. Who here gives a flying caboodle? Honestly, does no one care? It's a trend I've noticed of late. Also, a deck, like Moon said, doesn't always have to have the whole bells and whistles on it with custom court cards and metallic inks. That 's what everybody focuses on. Take Aladdins and Arrcos for example, beautiful cards and they handle nicely, Yet they don't need all of those fandangled things. Sure, those things are nice, but not exactly aesthetically necessary. Just my 10 cents worth on the topic...
It's not that people don't care about the handling as much as it is that the handling of a pack straight out of the box is almost uniformly good on any USPC-made deck. It's one of the reasons why I find so many deck reviews a bit lacking, especially when one is opening the deck for the first time on camera and calling it a "review" of the deck when it can truly only cover the design. Use it daily for two weeks and then tell me how it performs.
No offense to you - I find yours to be among the better ones. Well edited, informed opinions, you recognize that we can read the box so you don't have to go into detail on that, and it's blessedly short.
It's also called the "Sultan," its quite all right to say yes a deck doesn't need to be all decked out as it were with metallic ink, or fancy designs, but when your essentially calling yourself king, I'd expect the theme to follow on with the name.
In what way? What would you do, if anything, to express that idea? Show the thinking behind your idea. "Sultan" may be synonymous to "king", but it's not entirely identical, in the same way that Elizabeth II isn't called "Her Royal Highness, the Sultaness". So, beyond the yet-to-be-specified application of metallic ink, what would you do?
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I agree with KPopFever605 on his review of the deck features. Although, considering the theme referenced, I was expecting this deck to be much brighter.
Dark color decks and expensive tuck boxes seem to be a trend, anyway.
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Sr15, he does design work - do you? He does have a clearer idea of the REASONS why a deck is or isn't well-defined. Perhaps you're the one that's being pretentious?
in an area as subjective as card design, I really don't think being a designer of a deck automatically makes you any more or less qualified to make statements on what makes a deck appealing to people. Same reason that someone who puts out an album doesn't get to make pretentious comments about other's taste in music. And I'm not the one who started insulting people by implying that their opinions weren't "educated" enough.
When someone tosses out the idea that "metallic ink would make this better" - in what way would that make it better? Should they have simply splattered it all over the place? That statement is not an educated one. The same applies to someone who simply tosses out that they're "disappointed" but doesn't say why
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I personally don't really care for metallic ink, but as others have mentioned (including myself), the design really feels uninspired and maybe something like metallic ink would've made it stand out more. I don't think it would have and it probably needs a more interesting design, but as I said before the card industry is getting more and more competitive and the standards for a deck are always being raised.
Your opinion actually had some of the thought behind it that he was looking for, smartass. You gave details for why you felt what you felt in terms of the design.
I guess I am kind of repeating myself at this point. If you're seriously going to call me a smartass because I replied to a comment calling me uneducated then I don't think this discussion is going to go much further.
Make sure the next time you touch the keyboard with the intent of disrespecting someone in the community for no intelligent reason, shift your brain into drive for a few minutes first. You'll find that you go much further and people will give a damn about what you're saying. And if you think that's the most pretentious thing here, you haven't been around much, have you?
Funny how I'm accused of disrespecting someone who blatantly called me uneducated. And yes I am somewhat new here but that really doesn't excuse it, does it? If you want to single out that one comment and for the most part ignore the rest of my post, I can't really do anything about that.
He actually does have some idea about design, seeing as how he's been putting together a deck of his own that looks great, based on the preliminary artwork. So, he does in fact speak with authority rather than speaking out of his ass...
and just to address this point, I get that you're siding with the member who has been here longer and may have more credibility in your eyes. I understand that. However, even if he had already released a deck, which he has not, it does not give him more authority to speak on design quality over anyone else.
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Wait...let me get my popcorn :P Okay continue....
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I just simply dont like the deck. I dont have any specific reasons really I just dont like the design the theme or anything. The back reminds me too much of monarchs the colors used dont work very well together and the pips IMO are pretty ugly. I think they could have done alot more and alot better with this idea and I was expecting alot more.
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Your opinion actually had some of the thought behind it that he was looking for, smartass. You gave details for why you felt what you felt in terms of the design.
I guess I am kind of repeating myself at this point. If you're seriously going to call me a smartass because I replied to a comment calling me uneducated then I don't think this discussion is going to go much further..
Oh, bloody hell...
You do realize that he never called you uneducated, right? That he was referring to the comments that were negative but had nothing to add as to why? UNLIKE yours, which I TRIED pointing out to you but you obviously missed? And he didn't even refer to the people in question so much as the opinions offered? And that is not the same thing? ? ?
Just re-read what he wrote...hopefully you'll see it and understand it.
I just simply dont like the deck. I dont have any specific reasons really I just dont like the design the theme or anything. The back reminds me too much of monarchs the colors used dont work very well together and the pips IMO are pretty ugly. I think they could have done alot more and alot better with this idea and I was expecting alot more.
For someone without "any specific reasons", you sure managed to express a few of them rather nicely. :))
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yeah...I'm not buying that, specifically when he first said that people who weren't liking the deck "were failing to see the simplest details" and then followed it up with that comment. That obviously wasn't just referring to the people who didn't explain why they didn't like the deck. I'll let moon clarify if he wants, but don't speak for him. Either way I don't really feel like arguing this anymore. It's mostly subjective and E will sell a bunch of these decks anyway. I don't like them, some people do.
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yeah...I'm not buying that, specifically when he first said that people who weren't liking the deck "were failing to see the simplest details" and then followed it up with that comment. That obviously wasn't just referring to the people who didn't explain why they didn't like the deck. I'll let moon clarify if he wants, but don't speak for him. Either way I don't really feel like arguing this anymore. It's mostly subjective and E will sell a bunch of these decks anyway. I don't like them, some people do.
Fair enough. I'll probably get two, no more. It's nice enough but not something I'd make a mainstay of my working deck collection, though I have to admit, the diagonal lines in many of the pips does lend it a certain three-dimensional look.
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I feel you all may change your mind when you get them in hand. They're simply beautiful.
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It is not limited so i will wait for the promotions that they probably will do such as black friday, Christmas ,ect. i will not be a pray for a very cleaver strategy of having to see what the ''discover something major and rare.'' i can wait.
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It is not limited so i will wait for the promotions that they probably will do such as black friday, Christmas ,ect. i will not be a pray for a very cleaver strategy of having to see what the ''discover something major and rare.'' i can wait.
It looks like there are 2 secret things in the deck. I figured out one and it's not a big deal. I'm passing on it.
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It is not limited so i will wait for the promotions that they probably will do such as black friday, Christmas ,ect. i will not be a pray for a very cleaver strategy of having to see what the ''discover something major and rare.'' i can wait.
It looks like there are 2 secret things in the deck. I figured out one and it's not a big deal. I'm passing on it.
Are you going to share that thing?
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It is not limited so i will wait for the promotions that they probably will do such as black friday, Christmas ,ect. i will not be a pray for a very cleaver strategy of having to see what the ''discover something major and rare.'' i can wait.
It looks like there are 2 secret things in the deck. I figured out one and it's not a big deal. I'm passing on it.
Are you going to share that thing?
Umm... no.. Wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of it being a secret? I'm sure that if Ellusionist wanted people who didn't buy the deck, to have access to the secret things, then they'd do so.
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It looks like there are 2 secret things in the deck. I figured out one and it's not a big deal. I'm passing on it.
Are you going to share that thing?
Umm... no.. Wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of it being a secret? I'm sure that if Ellusionist wanted people who didn't buy the deck, to have access to the secret things, then they'd do so.
Hey, it could be like that children's book, "Masquerade", or David Blaine's "Mysterious Stranger" - there may be a contest involved with a treasure hunt in the cards or something!
If that was the case, I'd want to be keeping the secrets to myself as well!
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I found out the one Evan is talking about. There's something else too. SO COOL!
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I just ordered mine :D
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The other cool, rare thing is truly awesome. I definitely recommend that people buy the sultan deck just to have access to the rare thing.
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The other cool, rare thing is truly awesome. I definitely recommend that people buy the sultan deck just to have access to the rare thing.
Not too vague, are we? :))
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The other cool, rare thing is truly awesome. I definitely recommend that people buy the sultan deck just to have access to the rare thing.
Not too vague, are we? :))
Not much I'd have to admit ;)
I feel you all may change your mind when you get them in hand. They're simply beautiful.
I've have to say, they certainly grow on you. It was Daniel Madison, I swear. I haven't bought these either.
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Has anyone else found the treasure?
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Has anyone else found the treasure?
Just keep the treasure , I already done with that.
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Well, guess what, If the Treasury deck being rare isn't enough, the current Sultan Republic deck will become "rare" as well, and we'll probably see a V2 some time in the future.
Here's what was written on facebook:
There's a running joke that Ellusionist makes more Limited decks by accident then we do by design. It's funny - because it's actually true. After listening to customer feedback, working with our designers and speaking to USPCC, we have decided to redesign the Sultan Republic deck. From the back design, to the box - even the name, the Sultan Republic deck just became the next in Ellusionist Limited Decks - with only 10,000 printed. We've already sold through over half that stock, so if you haven't yet picked up a deck (or three) - you'd better get in soon. Once our currents stocks are depleted, they will never be reprinted again.
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Well, guess what, If the Treasury deck being rare isn't enough, the current Sultan Republic deck will become "rare" as well, and we'll probably see a V2 some time in the future.
Here's what was written on facebook:
There's a running joke that Ellusionist makes more Limited decks by accident then we do by design. It's funny - because it's actually true. After listening to customer feedback, working with our designers and speaking to USPCC, we have decided to redesign the Sultan Republic deck. From the back design, to the box - even the name, the Sultan Republic deck just became the next in Ellusionist Limited Decks - with only 10,000 printed. We've already sold through over half that stock, so if you haven't yet picked up a deck (or three) - you'd better get in soon. Once our currents stocks are depleted, they will never be reprinted again.
It's the same thing that happened to the V1 blue Artifice. It's just a discontinued deck. It'll be rare only in the sense that no more are being made and only a moderately low number were made. At 10,000 decks, the aftermarket price increase is not likely to be more than a speed bump when they're gone.
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i dont think its the same with Artifice v1, E is basically saying that Sultan Republic will be "rare" because they are simply ugly and they wont make money by reprint them lol . I think Artifice v2 was the case of ppl asking for white borders.
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i dont think its the same with Artifice v1, E is basically saying that Sultan Republic will be "rare" because they are simply ugly and they wont make money by reprint them lol . I think Artifice v2 was the case of ppl asking for white borders.
I don't happen to think they're ugly. They weren't released very long ago and over half of those 10,000 decks have already been sold. It's not like they're entirely unpopular - it's just Ellusionist trying to show that they care about their customers opinions.
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I wouldn't say "ugly" so much as "uninspired", but I agree that artifice v1 was much better looking and ultimately impractical for magic, while sultans were just not that great of a design
I may be biased though since the borderless artifice is one of my favorite back designs. might also explain why im so pissed about black artifice being "members only"
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I wouldn't say "ugly" so much as "uninspired", but I agree that artifice v1 was much better looking and ultimately impractical for magic, while sultans were just not that great of a design
I may be biased though since the borderless artifice is one of my favorite back designs. might also explain why im so pissed about black artifice being "members only"
I'd say Artifice v1 was nice and not entirely impractical for magicians, just a bit limiting in that you have to leave out certain tricks from your repertoire. I like v2 better because the borders were done well and the edges don't show chipping with use. You'll get more mileage out of a bordered deck than one that's printed into the bleed.
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Also for anyone that missed it the Sultan Republic deck is also a Limited Edition deck with only 10,000 printed as they are not reprinting them and are redesigning them entirely
Yeah, that was written up in the topic for that deck. It's an accidental limited edition, just like the first edition blue Artifice, the all-white pip Black Tiger and the silver-and-red Tally Ho Vipers. And if you get down to it, all the UV500 and Air Cushion versions of the decks prior to Artifice.
Yes but those were mass produced awile ago, these are actually a limited edition deck. In reality all decks are limited editions because they will eventually not be made any more but only 10,000 of these were made, making them fairly rare. E said awile ago that 100,000 Artifice Blue 1's were made.
I'm going to continue this in the actual topic for this deck...
...that's better!
Are you SURE it was a 100,000 decks? That's a MASSIVE order for Ellusionist. Something between 10K-30K is more typical, even for a popular deck.
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Also for anyone that missed it the Sultan Republic deck is also a Limited Edition deck with only 10,000 printed as they are not reprinting them and are redesigning them entirely
Yeah, that was written up in the topic for that deck. It's an accidental limited edition, just like the first edition blue Artifice, the all-white pip Black Tiger and the silver-and-red Tally Ho Vipers. And if you get down to it, all the UV500 and Air Cushion versions of the decks prior to Artifice.
Yes but those were mass produced awile ago, these are actually a limited edition deck. In reality all decks are limited editions because they will eventually not be made any more but only 10,000 of these were made, making them fairly rare. E said awile ago that 100,000 Artifice Blue 1's were made.
I'm going to continue this in the actual topic for this deck...
...that's better!
Are you SURE it was a 100,000 decks? That's a MASSIVE order for Ellusionist. Something between 10K-30K is more typical, even for a popular deck.
Well I cant be 100% thats just what they told me when I asked on the FB page. I asked how many Blue Artifie V1's were printed and I got a reply from the E FB page that the round number was about 100,000.
I can see them selling that many.
And when they announced that the Black Tiger white pips were going out of print there was 100,000 that lasted like 6 or so months to sell out. So I think they could have sold that many artifice in half the time.
And they have 130K Fb likes so 100,000 decks isn't even that much for them.
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And they have 130K Fb likes so 100,000 decks isn't even that much for them.
You try footing the bill for 100,000 decks and you tell me "it isn't that much!" :))
If they said it on FB, it's probably true.
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And they have 130K Fb likes so 100,000 decks isn't even that much for them.
You try footing the bill for 100,000 decks and you tell me "it isn't that much!" :))
If they said it on FB, it's probably true.
Haha well in average people money it is alot, but in Big Magic Company Money it must not be much.
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And they have 130K Fb likes so 100,000 decks isn't even that much for them.
You try footing the bill for 100,000 decks and you tell me "it isn't that much!" :))
If they said it on FB, it's probably true.
Haha well in average people money it is alot, but in Big Magic Company Money it must not be much.
Ellusionist isn't as huge as you'd think. They probably have a staff about the size of the one at my job - under 20 people including the boss.
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About 50,000 Blue Artifice V1 were printed.
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And they have 130K Fb likes so 100,000 decks isn't even that much for them.
You try footing the bill for 100,000 decks and you tell me "it isn't that much!" :))
If they said it on FB, it's probably true.
Haha well in average people money it is alot, but in Big Magic Company Money it must not be much.
Ellusionist isn't as huge as you'd think. They probably have a staff about the size of the one at my job - under 20 people including the boss.
When you say "staff" are you counting their design team, shipping/processing team,, and CEO? Twenty people just seem too little compared to how many orders and ideas they have on their plate.
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http://www.ellusionist.com/is-that-a-new-ltd
update from Jake very funny :)
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About 50,000 Blue Artifice V1 were printed.
Where did you find this info?
100,000 has evidence supporting it where did you get 50,000?
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And they have 130K Fb likes so 100,000 decks isn't even that much for them.
You try footing the bill for 100,000 decks and you tell me "it isn't that much!" :))
If they said it on FB, it's probably true.
Haha well in average people money it is alot, but in Big Magic Company Money it must not be much.
Ellusionist isn't as huge as you'd think. They probably have a staff about the size of the one at my job - under 20 people including the boss.
When you say "staff" are you counting their design team, shipping/processing team,, and CEO? Twenty people just seem too little compared to how many orders and ideas they have on their plate.
About 20 people would sound about right to me, just the immediate team though, not artists that sell tricks on the site, but their Shipping, CEO, Designers, Customer support would seem about 20 people.
Think about it they have 1 CEO and maybe 2 other executive people. 6-7 people for shipping, like 3 or 4 designers, and a few customer support workers.
EDIT: sorry for double post I thought I had clicked modify not reply :-[