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Playing Card Chat ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦ => Playing Card Plethora => Topic started by: Rob Wright on November 10, 2014, 09:57:56 PM
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ADMIN NOTE: now available
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1722808047/scarlett-tally-ho-playing-cards-by-jackson-robinso
(https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hprofile-xfp1/v/l/t1.0-1/p50x50/1465139_237025183128436_1293521983_n.jpg?oh=ace15b315bb4c1023b554cea8850b68b&oe=54D1CE4D) Kings Wild Project
Liked · 3 hrs ·
In honor of my youngest daughter Scarlett, The Limited edition Scarlett Tally Hos, Coming soon.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10802021_359312437566376_3171654124081935645_n.jpg?oh=eeacc8cb5912ef1270c444e5bdfaa200&oe=54DFE0B6&__gda__=1423583452_c55674e5678ad9d74dd14320bb8e2561)
Just awesome. That's how to bring a new color. Not just a color change of the turtle backs. Love it
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Really like the back, really like the color I see there, really want a couple bricks. ;D
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WANT!!!
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WANT!!!
Winner
Understatement of the Year Award! ;)
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Did he realize he made a misspelling in that title? Or was it intentional?
"Scarlett" is a popular name for girls, while "scarlet" is a deep, rich red color.
Frankly, I'm just glad that someone's making custom Tally Ho decks! It's far less common than Bicycle, hands down.
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Did he realize he made a misspelling in that title? Or was it intentional?
"Scarlett" is a popular name for girls, while "scarlet" is a deep, rich red color.
Frankly, I'm just glad that someone's making custom Tally Ho decks! It's far less common than Bicycle, hands down.
On his facebook page he says the deck is in honor of his youngest daughter, Scarlett.
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Anyone have any idea how "limited" these will be? Anyone wanna guess how much these will cost...8, 12, 20 a deck?
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Anyone have any idea how "limited" these will be? Anyone wanna guess how much these will cost...8, 12, 20 a deck?
I hope it's not insanely limited to 500 or 1,000 decks. That always makes it rough on the wallet. Hopefully there will be enough for everyone and enough for those of us who want bricks of a wonderful red back. ;D I guess who could just ask Jackson though, he'll probably let us know. :P
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They look good, not surprising from a KWP! ;D
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Anyone have any idea how "limited" these will be? Anyone wanna guess how much these will cost...8, 12, 20 a deck?
I hope it's not insanely limited to 500 or 1,000 decks. That always makes it rough on the wallet. Hopefully there will be enough for everyone and enough for those of us who want bricks of a wonderful red back. ;D I guess who could just ask Jackson though, he'll probably let us know. :P
I'm guessing limited to 1000 from the blurry seal, which means bricks may not be available or may cost a lot, like the Hive bricks.
I hope these launch soon -- I'm going into Kings Wild withdrawal...
/bama
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I'm guessing limited to 1000 from the blurry seal, which means bricks may not be available or may cost a lot, like the Hive bricks.
I hope these launch soon -- I'm going into Kings Wild withdrawal...
/bama
Hopefully thats just a seal they used just for the preliminary photos...
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Did he realize he made a misspelling in that title? Or was it intentional?
"Scarlett" is a popular name for girls, while "scarlet" is a deep, rich red color.
Frankly, I'm just glad that someone's making custom Tally Ho decks! It's far less common than Bicycle, hands down.
Scarlett is the name and spelling of my daughter, which is who the deck is inspired after.
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I'm either going to directions with the run, still working out some production details, but the project will most definitely center around limited editions as that is what my costumers are demanding.
Option A
Unlimited Run probably end up in the $10-$13 range (including shipping costs)
1000 Limited Edition USPCC Gilded Versions
50 Special Editions that I'm not ready to reveal yet
Option B (ALL limited editions)
1000 Limited Editions
250 Special Edition USPCC Gilded Versions
50 Special Editions that I'm not ready to reveal yet
If I go with option B there will be NO brick option and most likely a 3 deck cap of each edition.
They will have all new court cards and nothing related or carried over from my previous Tally Hos.
I've worked out some really great stuff with Paul Middleton for shipping all of my European orders. The funny thing is the UK backers will most likely pay less than the US backers.
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I'm either going to directions with the run, still working out some production details, but the project will most definitely center around limited editions as that is what my costumers are demanding.
Option A
Unlimited Run probably end up in the $10-$13 range (including shipping costs)
1000 Limited Edition USPCC Gilded Versions
50 Special Editions that I'm not ready to reveal yet
Option B (ALL limited editions)
1000 Limited Editions
250 Special Edition USPCC Gilded Versions
50 Special Editions that I'm not ready to reveal yet
If I go with option B there will be NO brick option and most likely a 3 deck cap of each edition.
They will have all new court cards and nothing related or carried over from my previous Tally Hos.
I've worked out some really great stuff with Paul Middleton for shipping all of my European orders. The funny thing is the UK backers will most likely pay less than the US backers.
Do we get to vote? If so, I'm for Option A...
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Most people will want 1 - 4 decks, depending on types of decks available, so yea that makes sense. Those of us who buy bricks are not the typical consumer. Everything limited, that's definitely what most people seem to want.
Curious why not a 2,500 deck run on the first deck? That's still very limited and I could snag a brick a the RED. ;) I mean, most campaigns don't move more than 20-35 bricks.
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I'm for Option A as well.
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Option A.
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I personally am a fan of limited editions -- it makes decks seem that little bit more special. Therefore, I like option B.
However, I also with Fes -- I can imagine there's being a a lot of buyers, and I can also imagine a lot wanting 4 or more decks. A limited run, but with bigger quantities (just so more people can get a chance to buy) would be nice.
Really nice design -- it has the tally-ho DNA, yet unique in its own way. It's definitely a guaranteed winner.
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These look great, I would definitely be interested in the brick option - so option A with a deck of each of the limited ranges is my vote.
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Gonna throw my vote in for option A. I know you've said before that most of your fan base wants to ultra limited decks but I for one prefer lower costs to lower quantities.
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Looks like Option A is beginning to landslide Option B. I'm for "A" myself.
Even the few people choosing B want it with a less-limited amount!
I would love to see some new Tally Ho designs that are not just readily available but also reprinted as needed. There's been a lot of different TH deck backs over the years. The Bicycle Dragon Backs that came out both a few years back and recently all use a back design that was once a monochrome design for Tally Ho.
What can I say? Tally Ho is a real New York deck, and I'm a real New Yorker!
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Option A. For sure. PLEASE.
I can't stand limited runs of anything, I have to wake at at 4:50am EST or something insane just to get a deck. So I usually never bother at all.
Gilded Versions sounds awesome!!!
I am not usually a fan of "standard faces" decks but the Tuck Box looks good enough to make an exception.
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Not that anyone's asking for my opinion (and not that I ever wait for someone to ask before I give it!), but I like limited editions as well, so I would be more pleased with option B, personally. Whatever keeps KWP going the best is fine by me.
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When you check the campaigns that have run on KS, people who order bricks are a very small group. People who order 1-4 decks are legion. It makes sense to have limited decks across the board. We here at The Discourse, who are vocal about things are also a very small group. It makes sense not to listen to our wants, in terms of limiteds and unlimiteds, and go with the numbers. While we're emotional, the numbers are not they simply are what they are.
People want limited editions, they're crazy about them and are happy to shell out for limited editions. While they're happy to shell out for non-limiteds they tend to not want more than one or two decks of those. This is what the numbers say. Limited editions are what make campaigns and thus make money.
I just don't understand why a limited edition must be 1,000 decks or it'll become unlimited. How come it can't be a single print run of 2,500 or 5000 decks? This is still very limited in my humble opinion. When there are several decks to be offered, why not enable one deck to still be limited but much more accessible. I think people would still respond very well to that. There are "chase" decks in there with much limited numbers to suit the needs of the "limited or it sucks" crowd, while still offering the ability for us who actually use our cards to pick up a brick or two of what we'd like as well.
There are a lot of process that go into campaigns and pledge tiers and all that. A lot of basic number crunching and some not so basic number crunching when it comes to extremely limited decks. The pledge system is a nightmare for enabling a campaign to roll out the limited over time, when they absolutely have the most impact on a campaign. Maybe it's these process that cause the jump from Extremely limited to Unlimited. I don't know. I do know, I wish there was a middle ground somewhere that would appeal to everyone. Regardless of my wants in terms of playing cards, I hope Jackson makes the choice that is right for him and his. Whatever that turns out to be.
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I like option A
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As long as I can get 1 of each, I don't care which option. I'll take those signed please 8)
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I will most likely make it even more limited. No display decks this time around either.
95% sure it will be like below on launch day.
750 Limited Editions
200 Gold Gilded Editions
25 Special Editions
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Any idea as to when launch day would be?
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(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10606299_360356884128598_1835374926807480850_n.jpg?oh=3b154ac3042e790c2fa4e692728c9128&oe=54E807E9&__gda__=1423476049_ca8eec9140a92e78db968dd95975afe1)
(https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hprofile-xfp1/v/l/t1.0-1/p50x50/1465139_237025183128436_1293521983_n.jpg?oh=ace15b315bb4c1023b554cea8850b68b&oe=54D1CE4D) Kings Wild Project
November 11 ·
New Circle Back, New Courts, Traditionally cut, all from the ground up. Oh yes! there will also be gilded edges edition. Scarlett Tally Hos
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10710764_359559774208309_7413430095598499040_n.jpg?oh=396656b62cd6fc61b43d479125434b5b&oe=54E79D15&__gda__=1424748196_6d1bec92a18fc967ccaf3c4457a3eceb)
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I will most likely make it even more limited. No display decks this time around either.
95% sure it will be like below on launch day.
750 Limited Editions
200 Gold Gilded Editions
25 Special Editions
Less than a thousand decks in total? About one-fifth of them gilded as well? No mention of an unlimited edition?
I'm disappointed. Have fun catering to the deeply-pocketed - I won't be among them if this is the case.
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I will most likely make it even more limited. No display decks this time around either.
95% sure it will be like below on launch day.
750 Limited Editions
200 Gold Gilded Editions
25 Special Editions
I'm sure majority went with option A. But it looks like it is heading the other direction. :-\
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I really like this deck, so I'm in whatever the limiteds or uns or whatsits. Hopefully I'll be able to pick up a bunch, if not it's alright I'll use what I can get my paws on. Really like this red interpretation. :)
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At the end of the day, Jackson's best bet is to cater to a combination of (a) what his research tells him about what the majority of the KWP fans want, and (b) his personal vision for a deck dedicated to his daughter.
Whilst we do all talk a lot about cards here, it's obvious that we don't make up the majority of KWP's following. Ultra limited runs are popular, and so it's not difficult to see why option B was a legit contender.
I personally think that the super limited quantities will make for a special deck for both Jackson and the people who end up owning some of the decks. If special is what Jackson is trying to achieve, then option B all the way brother! For my part, I think the right choice has been made.
Regardless of whether anyone here buys or not, I'm sure that most (if not all) will agree that the deck looks pretty darn cool.
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I know nobody wants to be the "minority" but for the most part forum goers aren't the biggest part of the buying pool, not that they should be ignored, but you have to play to your strengths as it were. I know Jackson has mentioned this before and it applies to many, not just him. i think the designer needs to stay true to what he is known for and KWP is known for highly collectiable, well designed and blinged out decks......like it or not.
Without knowing the actual structure of this campaign as far as pricing and tier options i think it premature to just say your out..........no offense Don :)
I've learned a lot from the Aquila project and the one thing that rings true is that there is a HUGE base of "Buyers/Collectors" out there that aren't forum and Facebook Group followers. They are a silent majority in the playing card world and community.
Like Holy JJ, I'll buy what I can afford and enjoy adding it to my collection. The deisgn is stellar :)
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Without knowing the actual structure of this campaign as far as pricing and tier options i think it premature to just say your out..........no offense Don :)
None taken. I did note "I won't be among them if this is the case." If it's not so elite, then yes, I'd consider it, particularly at a decent price.
You folks know my feelings about the trends in playing card manufacture and design. After a point, the bling and the rarified air in which these decks exist all becomes just too much for me, and I don't think I'm alone in that. Then again, I collected in a time when a 5,000-deck print run was considered "rare".
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Hey Don, I'm curious -- what do you consider a decent price, for a limited edition deck and for a gold deck?
/bama
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I'm sure majority went with option A. But it looks like it is heading the other direction. :-\
I don't think he was ever actually asking for a vote, people just started voting. I feel like he was just brainstorming out loud.
I like the exclusivity, and I feel like most consumers outside of our niche want that more as well.To people that aren't apart of the couple dozen of us that are a part of the playing card community, limited edition still means something, and they will back that belief with money.
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Hey Don, I'm curious -- what do you consider a decent price, for a limited edition deck and for a gold deck?
/bama
It would largely depend on the production values and features brought to bear. I can understand a deck being expensive, sure - it's the whole "elite" thing going on, such tiny quantities. See, I'd probably not purchase a gilded deck - they're absolutely gorgeous, but they're not cheap, albeit worth every penny.
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Hey Don, I'm curious -- what do you consider a decent price, for a limited edition deck and for a gold deck?
/bama
It would largely depend on the production values and features brought to bear. I can understand a deck being expensive, sure - it's the whole "elite" thing going on, such tiny quantities. See, I'd probably not purchase a gilded deck - they're absolutely gorgeous, but they're not cheap, albeit worth every penny.
Ha! Spoken like a magician avoiding a trap! Not willing to get pinned down before the Scarlett Tallys launch?
Let me ask it another way, are you saying that you aren't in the market for expensive decks (even if they are worth every penny)? If so, at what price point does a deck cross the line from affordable to expensive?
/bama
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Looks like from Kingswildproject Instagram post it goes live tomorrow at 12pm central via kickstarter
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Hey Don, I'm curious -- what do you consider a decent price, for a limited edition deck and for a gold deck?
/bama
It would largely depend on the production values and features brought to bear. I can understand a deck being expensive, sure - it's the whole "elite" thing going on, such tiny quantities. See, I'd probably not purchase a gilded deck - they're absolutely gorgeous, but they're not cheap, albeit worth every penny.
Ha! Spoken like a magician avoiding a trap! Not willing to get pinned down before the Scarlett Tallys launch?
Let me ask it another way, are you saying that you aren't in the market for expensive decks (even if they are worth every penny)? If so, at what price point does a deck cross the line from affordable to expensive?
/bama
It's difficult to simply draw a line in the sand and say, "All decks on this side are affordable." It's about as logical as finding gasoline at the same price everywhere across the country. There are some government controls on the price of gas, but it's still a mostly-free market.
In terms of modern decks, the most I ever paid for one was two packs of Moth/Myth black - $50 each. Close second was the 52+J 2014 club deck at $45 each.
If you count trick decks, the highest is $80 - Get Sharkey, an excellent trick by card-shark.de/Phoenix Playing Cards.
By and large, when a deck's price is reaching $15 or more, I have to more carefully examine it to determine just how much (if at all) I want to have it. If the desire is strong, the willingness to pay more is higher - but these days, the desire is rarely very strong.
And everything I said about buying cards is 100% subjective, applies only to me, and can change without notice, because that's the nature of people, especially collectors. I was a guy who wanted all the decks - until, even before Kickstarter blew up deck buying forever, I realized that it wasn't feasible or practical. I already possess more decks of cards now than I could possibly consume in a lifetime, unless tossing them in a fire counted as consumption. I've gotten very picky even about affordable decks, because affordable decks can add up to an unaffordable amount if purchased unchecked. So while there's so many wicked-cool uber-rare decks out there, there's a buttload more affordable decks out there, a plethora from which to choose.
Now, back to topic.
Yes, I'd be interested in getting these cards, but only if I could get a few decks affordably. I have a soft spot for my "native" decks - Tally-Ho in particular. My wife used to work in the same neighborhood, Long Island City, where A. Doughtery had a manufacturing plant. I drive through that neighborhood frequently between home and work. If I had the resources, I'd look for that precise location and turn it into a museum for playing cards - but the odds are that I wouldn't be able to afford it due to the ongoing gentrification of the area and the accompanying construction of luxury high-rise apartment buildings that goes with it. Ten years ago, the place was an armpit. Now, it's "desirable real estate" in a neighborhood that's slowly but steadily getting upgraded. In ten or twenty years, it'll be a clone of Park Slope or SoHo, too expensive for most mere mortals. I love New York, but I loved it a lot more when it was actually affordable and I'm finding myself loving it less by the day.
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wow the pledges were gone fast.as of this post 97% funded in 8 minutes...
definitely the prices we were expecting. I had wanted one of the wooden slip cases but extremely difficult for me to justify the price tag on it. got in for 2x LE decks.
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I almost had the legacy edition but by the time I clicked on continue it was sold out. I will not be paying 4x the amount through ebay though I managed to get 2 X LE edition instead.
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Yea I ended up with 2 decks as well haha. I tried to get to other tiers, it didn't work out. Sold out popped up so fast it wasn't even funny. Two is better than none, so I'm happy. ;)
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Hey Don, I'm curious -- what do you consider a decent price, for a limited edition deck and for a gold deck?
/bama
It would largely depend on the production values and features brought to bear. I can understand a deck being expensive, sure - it's the whole "elite" thing going on, such tiny quantities. See, I'd probably not purchase a gilded deck - they're absolutely gorgeous, but they're not cheap, albeit worth every penny.
Ha! Spoken like a magician avoiding a trap! Not willing to get pinned down before the Scarlett Tallys launch?
Let me ask it another way, are you saying that you aren't in the market for expensive decks (even if they are worth every penny)? If so, at what price point does a deck cross the line from affordable to expensive?
/bama
Well, it is $20 for a normal deck, $36 for a gilded, and $124 for the super limited edition wooden slip case.
This is by no means anywhere near cheap or average for that matter for a deck of cards. Is it affordable? Yes, in a sense. A trip to a fancy restaurant probably cost more than all 3 decks combined, but it is obvious that it is most likely going to be expensive when JR already priced an unlimited deck at around $10-13, when his previous Silver Arrow was priced at $6, not to mention a super limited, less than thousand for sale, decks.
While i agree with Sparkz it is unfair for Don to make such statements, you would also be kidding yourself if you think it is going to be anywhere cheap. I'm just going to ask back the same question, are you guys willing to pay any amount for a deck just because it is limited? How then, will you justify if a deck is worth every penny? I got a feeling many are jumping in just because it is a JR deck. No doubt the design is good, but i believe more are in simply because, it is going to worth some sh*t in the reselling market.
Back on the topic, it would seem that JR is right as his project got funded within 10minutes? $13,000 within 10 minutes. That is probably better than buying shares on the stock market. While i continue to say we (the main people making a ruckus in the forums) are a minority in the playing card market. I'm sure as hell the majority are also probably lurking around forums like these for the latest updates as well.
It probably feels like JR's sweet revenge against those who did not support his Silver Arrows deck.
EDIT: Those who didn't get any decks they wanted can stay on the project page for updates. Last i counted, amount of decks that were launched were less than what JR claimed there would be.
Comment from JR:
"Awesome! Wow! didn't expect this at all! I'm trying to add some of the remaining slots but my "edit project" page is being crashed. I will have to wait a while a try later.
You guys are awesome!"
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In 140 backers if it stays as is, the whole campaign sells out. Kinda cool, kinda crazy. Definitely :bosswalk:.
Edit: looks like lower pledge tiers were bumped up.
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I'm in for a standard/gilded pair. I can't say I like the pricing( definitely a bit high) but I can say he isn't making anything off shipping this go around. Nice decks and he hit the nail on the head with limiting the availability of these and funding quickly. I don't think he's added all available decks to the campaign yet though.
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I'm in for a standard/gilded pair. I can't say I like the pricing( definitely a bit high) but I can say he isn't making anything off shipping this go around. Nice decks and he hit the nail on the head with limiting the availability of these and funding quickly. I don't think he's added all available decks to the campaign yet though.
No company ever makes any money off of shipping except USPS, FedEx, UPS, DHL, etc. I believe everyone tends to forget it's "shipping and handling" so that will cover postal, packing material and someone to package it all up.
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While i agree with Sparkz it is unfair for Don to make such statements, you would also be kidding yourself if you think it is going to be anywhere cheap. I'm just going to ask back the same question, are you guys willing to pay any amount for a deck just because it is limited?
PurpleIce, I never meant is was going to be cheap, but, and this will answer the second part of your question, beauty lies in the eye of the beholder, Don might have looked at it and decided that "THIS" particular design and concept was worth purchasing. As far as how much I'm willing to pay, I don't know......It really is based on the deck, the amount, the print run, etc...
But, and this brings it back to a point I always make, that cost is effected by your intentions as well. I'm a collector, my only intention is to add it to my collection, it's worth and value isn't monetary to me, its based on what I like. This is going to be different for everyone, there is no right or wrong answer or price point. But look at the current state of Jackson's Tally campaign and you should get the a pretty good indication as to where his customers are in the question you posed.
I like Jackson's work, very much so, but I also liked it at $6.00 a deck. It's unfortunate that the Arrow's ended up as they did, I know Jackson wants to please as many people as he can, but the reality is that when it comes to card design and Kickstarters, they need to fund for Jackson's business to continue. And any business knows, you sell what made you who you are...........It seems pretty evident what the majority want from KWP. I can't and won't blame Jackson for that.
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I got in on 2x limited, wish there were more decks available of all of the types though.
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Does NO ONE believe in posting links anymore? :))
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1722808047/scarlett-tally-ho-playing-cards-by-jackson-robinso
I did end up getting two of the "entry level" decks. Still thought they were on the costly side, but went ahead anyway because I'm a fan of the Tally Ho brand.
Anthony - I'll grant you that the collectors are buying for adding to their collections. Unfortunately we also have an influx of speculators as well, people who purchased solely for the purpose of reselling later at a higher price. It's why a rather humble deck like Jerry's Nugget sells for over $400. Who knows how many thousands exist out there - but people start paying more money so other people sniff this out, take notice and see an opportunity. Welcome to Ferenganar. It's part of what is making me a bit sour about the entire hobby.
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@Don,
There are Ferengi out there, no doubt about it. However, Jackson's pricing for these decks may well alleviate the speculation trend. Unlike the original Fed 52 decks which resell for 2 to 5 times their KS price, these decks may well be priced high enough on KS that its Jackson who profits and not the Ferengi. Anyways, I hope so.
For those of you who belong to 52+Joker, I'll note that Jackson was selling Fed 52 decks for $10 a piece at this year's convention. I don't know if he'll have any Scarletts left after the KS, but join the club, come to next year's convention and maybe you'll get lucky.
/bama
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Oh, I agree Don, the speculators are out there, there is no doubt.......where there is money to be made and all. And I know what you mean about it souring the hobby for you, it is a difficult pill to swallow at times, but as collectors and aficionado's the best thing we can do is stick to our "Personal" guidelines when making purchases and ignoring all the peripherally BS ;)
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Ah everyone needs to earn a crust, how they do it is their own business. It doesn't effect my enjoyment of playing cards. Great decks are going to be chased, doesn't matter if there are 10,000 or 1,000. Not excited over this campaign anymore, it's almost sold out so it's done unless something happens there. Could run a 48 hour campaign with this much limited. :P
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Well done on a successful campaign, wish there were higher numbers on each product but half the fun is sometimes not always getting your way :)
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While i agree with Sparkz it is unfair for Don to make such statements, you would also be kidding yourself if you think it is going to be anywhere cheap. I'm just going to ask back the same question, are you guys willing to pay any amount for a deck just because it is limited?
PurpleIce, I never meant is was going to be cheap, but, and this will answer the second part of your question, beauty lies in the eye of the beholder, Don might have looked at it and decided that "THIS" particular design and concept was worth purchasing. As far as how much I'm willing to pay, I don't know......It really is based on the deck, the amount, the print run, etc...
But, and this brings it back to a point I always make, that cost is effected by your intentions as well. I'm a collector, my only intention is to add it to my collection, it's worth and value isn't monetary to me, its based on what I like. This is going to be different for everyone, there is no right or wrong answer or price point. But look at the current state of Jackson's Tally campaign and you should get the a pretty good indication as to where his customers are in the question you posed.
I like Jackson's work, very much so, but I also liked it at $6.00 a deck. It's unfortunate that the Arrow's ended up as they did, I know Jackson wants to please as many people as he can, but the reality is that when it comes to card design and Kickstarters, they need to fund for Jackson's business to continue. And any business knows, you sell what made you who you are...........It seems pretty evident what the majority want from KWP. I can't and won't blame Jackson for that.
Hey Sparkz, i hope you take no offense. That question wasn't directed at you, but to everyone in general. Maybe it is the way that i wrongly phrased it.
I was simply trying to agree with you on not making any deductions any we see evidence. But in our mind, simply, we all know that it ain't gonna be cheap. The latter part was directed at everyone else.
There are Ferengi out there, no doubt about it. However, Jackson's pricing for these decks may well alleviate the speculation trend. Unlike the original Fed 52 decks which resell for 2 to 5 times their KS price, these decks may well be priced high enough on KS that its Jackson who profits and not the Ferengi. Anyways, I hope so.
For those of you who belong to 52+Joker, I'll note that Jackson was selling Fed 52 decks for $10 a piece at this year's convention. I don't know if he'll have any Scarletts left after the KS, but join the club, come to next year's convention and maybe you'll get lucky.
The thing is, as all logical businesses might go, that bulk buyers get better pricing. There are decks that i buy a brick of, even though i only need 2 decks as a collector, is so that i can get a much cheaper average price per deck, and sell the rest off at a small percentage above what price i paid.
Now, with Jackson selling a maximum of 2 each, the price is going to soar like crazy, simply because those who did not get any, will find it difficult to find these decks in the resellers market as well. Collectors like us will be very unlikely to sell simply because of the open 1 keep 1 thing that we all do. It is basic economics actually, when demand outweighs supply, inflation is bound to kick in. Only my wife doesn't know that, selling my decks at cheap pricing to some other people online. :(
I'm not too sure what are the Fed 52 decks sold, but i think it is those printed in excess, that is not cellophane wrapped and comes with KWP seal rather than the FED52 seals? Probably the same as those in the Halloween bricks?
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What it really appears like - and I can't blame Jackson for this - is that he's seen the premium that his decks go for in the secondary market and decided that he wanted at least a portion of that extra cash for himself. Considering that he did the lion's share of the work getting the decks to market, he should get a better share of the value of the deck.
He was among the first, if not the first, to charge $15 (including domestic shipping) for a pack of playing cards. Umpteen others followed suit, with varying degrees of success - both people with a respectable record of making good deck after good deck and n00bz who thought they could put any old crap on a crappily-made pack of playing cards and get rich. It's not often that prices creep LOWER - the general trend tends to be higher. So if this ends up becoming the average of what I have to pay for even a typical deck in the near future (and at a rate that far outraces my pay increases), I'm going to get priced out of the hobby and I'm sad to say I won't be alone.
It's a lot like what happened to ticket prices for live events in New York. Scalpers were making boatloads on the tickets they resold, so the theaters decided that the market could bear higher prices and did much the same thing. Now, it's rare that a live event has two tickets for under $200, especially after the surcharges for buying online from a ticket service company. Even a night at the movies for two with drinks and popcorn can run to about $60 in this town. In the end, I see far fewer live events these days than I ever have before and it's been a few years since I've seen a movie in the heart of the city, instead going to the outskirts and the suburbs for somewhat more affordable pricing.
Where are the suburbs of the playing card industry? WalMart and the dollar stores?
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What it really appears like - and I can't blame Jackson for this - is that he's seen the premium that his decks go for in the secondary market and decided that he wanted at least a portion of that extra cash for himself. Considering that he did the lion's share of the work getting the decks to market, he should get a better share of the value of the deck.
He was among the first, if not the first, to charge $15 (including domestic shipping) for a pack of playing cards. Umpteen others followed suit, with varying degrees of success - both people with a respectable record of making good deck after good deck and n00bz who thought they could put any old crap on a crappily-made pack of playing cards and get rich. It's not often that prices creep LOWER - the general trend tends to be higher. So if this ends up becoming the average of what I have to pay for even a typical deck in the near future (and at a rate that far outraces my pay increases), I'm going to get priced out of the hobby and I'm sad to say I won't be alone.
It's a lot like what happened to ticket prices for live events in New York. Scalpers were making boatloads on the tickets they resold, so the theaters decided that the market could bear higher prices and did much the same thing. Now, it's rare that a live event has two tickets for under $200, especially after the surcharges for buying online from a ticket service company. Even a night at the movies for two with drinks and popcorn can run to about $60 in this town. In the end, I see far fewer live events these days than I ever have before and it's been a few years since I've seen a movie in the heart of the city, instead going to the outskirts and the suburbs for somewhat more affordable pricing.
Where are the suburbs of the playing card industry? WalMart and the dollar stores?
My decision to run the Scarlett Tally Hos how I am, actually had nothing to do what the after market does or might do with my decks. Sure tons of people made money of the Feds and other decks of mine in the after market. I didn't really care one way or the other, I for sure wasn't ever upset or felt like I was getting jipped out of possible income. I was happy that I was getting to design cards for a living.
The structure of the Scarlett Tally Hos has 100% to do with what the people that allow me to design cards for a living wanted and spoke loud and clear with the voices and wallets. Sure I would love to produce a $5 deck but the reality is it will not be the deck that I want it to be.
I tried that with the arrows and it failed. If you went to your job and didn't get paid you probably wouldn't go back. Thats exactly what I did, I went to what brought me to the game and also what people wanted to pay for.
I have realized that I will never ever, ever, ever please everyone, but I can please those who support me. I can also please my self. It may sound selfish but in the end I am still an artists and my decks are my art. The playing card market is super saturated, but thats ok. I'm glad it is because that forces me and everyone else to compete at a higher level witch in the end benefits the industry. It may fatigue peoples wallets but it will also weed out weak stuff and creates a crucible for the highest quality work out there.
I honestly thought the days of Limited Editions were at an end, thats why I set off to do the Arrows as I did. When I couldn't have been further from the truth.
My dad always said "Ride on the horse that brung ya" no matter how dumb that sounds its true and until my rent and health insurance premiums force me to find work else where I will keep doing low runs and limited edition because it's the LTDs that are paying my rent not failed attempts at making people happy and calling it Silver Arrows.
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I can understand that you tried creating a "staple" deck that was affordable and many complained about and that a majority of your fans want LE deck, but why such an extreme? The majority of your decks funded well over 100k with a single print run but you have never had a project with only LE decks. Aren't you cutting your own throat by limiting the amount of funding you could get by not completely limiting the decks? I'm sure you're making plenty with the prices you're charging but having a standard deck, you could fund higher.
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I can understand that you tried creating a "staple" deck that was affordable and many complained about and that a majority of your fans want LE deck, but why such an extreme? The majority of your decks funded well over 100k with a single print run but you have never had a project with only LE decks. Aren't you cutting your own throat by limiting the amount of funding you could get by not completely limiting the decks? I'm sure you're making plenty with the prices you're charging but having a standard deck, you could fund higher.
There is no throat cutting in a successfully funded project. It's not about a big funding number. It's about an efficient workable business model. The days of big multiple deck projects are gone I I think.
Just because it's not over 100k, does it mean it's a failure. My past projects were beasts to handle and also BEASTS to pay for.
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Hey Sparkz, i hope you take no offense. That question wasn't directed at you, but to everyone in general. Maybe it is the way that i wrongly phrased it.
None taken :)
My decision to run the Scarlett Tally Hos how I am, actually had nothing to do what the after market does or might do with my decks. Sure tons of people made money of the Feds and other decks of mine in the after market. I didn't really care one way or the other, I for sure wasn't ever upset or felt like I was getting jipped out of possible income. I was happy that I was getting to design cards for a living.
Amen!!
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My decision to run the Scarlett Tally Hos how I am, actually had nothing to do what the after market does or might do with my decks. Sure tons of people made money of the Feds and other decks of mine in the after market. I didn't really care one way or the other, I for sure wasn't ever upset or felt like I was getting jipped out of possible income. I was happy that I was getting to design cards for a living.
The structure of the Scarlett Tally Hos has 100% to do with what the people that allow me to design cards for a living wanted and spoke loud and clear with the voices and wallets. Sure I would love to produce a $5 deck but the reality is it will not be the deck that I want it to be.
I tried that with the arrows and it failed. If you went to your job and didn't get paid you probably wouldn't go back. Thats exactly what I did, I went to what brought me to the game and also what people wanted to pay for.
I have realized that I will never ever, ever, ever please everyone, but I can please those who support me. I can also please my self. It may sound selfish but in the end I am still an artists and my decks are my art. The playing card market is super saturated, but thats ok. I'm glad it is because that forces me and everyone else to compete at a higher level witch in the end benefits the industry. It may fatigue peoples wallets but it will also weed out weak stuff and creates a crucible for the highest quality work out there.
I honestly thought the days of Limited Editions were at an end, thats why I set off to do the Arrows as I did. When I couldn't have been further from the truth.
My dad always said "Ride on the horse that brung ya" no matter how dumb that sounds its true and until my rent and health insurance premiums force me to find work else where I will keep doing low runs and limited edition because it's the LTDs that are paying my rent not failed attempts at making people happy and calling it Silver Arrows.
Honestly, I think that something like the Silver Arrows can be a success. Look at the Classic Twins, Uusi Classic, etc. There's a trend for this sort of product. What happened with the Silver Arrows was that the limited edition color and the cost to obtain it overshadowed the entire point of the project. I drove the conversation and everything else got drowned out. Try a project like that but with no limited edition ANYTHING. Make the box simple but attractive - the way playing cards looked for decades on end, without extra features on top of extra features. It would dramatically reduce production costs.
If David Blaine can blow out a $5-a-pack deck by the brick in a matter of hours, you can make an affordable custom deck that's not so rare you feel the need for museum displays and armed guards to watch over them. Decks people will crack open, use like crazy and enjoy. If dealing with single- and double-deck orders is too much, sell by the half brick. When they're cheap enough, a half brick isn't crazy expensive - it's something collectors and players can deal with.
Maybe I'm just being cranky, I don't know...
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There was absolutely nothing limited edition in the silver arrow project. Nothing....... Nothing. What drowned out the conversation was people wanted kings wild to do what kings wild did. I'm not sure how it can be any more crystal clear than the first nine minutes of the Scarlett project even in the midst of a super saturated market AND at Christmas time when people won't even get their rewards until April.
Uusi classics don't back up your point at all I don't think. UUsi is straight as an arrow and was able to do what I couldn't not listen to the few and listen to there audience. There projects haven't trended in any direction and that's one of the reasons there projects are so stellar.
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1.This is like beating a dead horse, but what the hell............there was NO LIMITED EDITION!
2.Using Blaine as an example is apples and oranges, not by design standards, but financial. Blaine's $5.00 decks, I will guarantee, were part of a larger order....Black, Red, and on, and on.
3. The "Majority" of KWP Customers do not want "Simple Tucks"
Why is it that we want to make all designers conform to one idea? There are plenty of "Simple" tucks at low prices out there, guys, seriously, this analogy may be a stretch, but it's like your asking Ferrari to make, well.........and inexpensive Ferrari. Buyers of a given brand expect certain things. I don't see why this is so hard to comprehend.......ya the Arrows could have been just a regular tuck, no embossing, no foil, etc...but is that what Kings Wild has become known for?
Hey, simple tuck is not in Jackson's DNA, lol..........it's a struggle for him to dial down I'm sure, he likes pushing his design and presentation. I'm fine with that, I want him to keep building "Ferrari's" , I can find plenty of "Simple", "Standard" decks elsewhere.
EDIT: I can't afford a Ferrari, but I don't complain about it, but by the same token, I don't want a "Watered Down" version either. I know what I want from KWP, if I can afford it, and like it, I'll buy it, if I can't, I'll be happy for those who could.
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There is no throat cutting in a successfully funded project. It's not about a big funding number. It's about an efficient workable business model. The days of big multiple deck projects are gone I I think.
Just because it's not over 100k, does it mean it's a failure. My past projects were beasts to handle and also BEASTS to pay for.
That's definitely understandable. I didn't consider how much more work there was with a bigger funded project. I'm just kinda disappointed that there's not a more economical version( standard edition ) with this project. I'm not complaining though.
Is this type of project what we can expect to see in the future( single LE deck with special editions of that deck )?
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Ultimately people should buy what they want because they want to. If a speculator wants to buy my decks it's ok. It doesn't matter who buys my decks, I can't force my will on anyone else just like they can't do the same to me. The only thing I can do is keep do what works for me and not what works for David Blaine or uusi doing the opposite would be the definition of insanity. People can preach and talk and write page after page but predicting the weather is different than being the guy who is in the boat when the weather comes.
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Hi Jackson,
Congratulations on your deck! :) Also I have 4 questions.
1. I noticed you "will be teaming up with JP Playing Cards to fulfill all of my UK and EU rewards." Is there some reason that your KW fulfillment is unable to do this?
2. What are your plans for the remainder of the printed decks?
3. What does your daughter Scarlett think of the deck?
4. What are your plans for the Arrow deck? If any?
Thanks!
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Hi Jackson,
Congratulations on your deck! :) Also I have 4 questions.
1. I noticed you "will be teaming up with JP Playing Cards to fulfill all of my UK and EU rewards." Is there some reason that your KW fulfillment is unable to do this?
2. What are your plans for the remainder of the printed decks?
3. What does your daughter Scarlett think of the deck?
4. What are your plans for the Arrow deck? If any?
Thanks!
1. I'm teaming up with JP because it makes it cheaper for the backer. KW Fulfillment has 100% capability to do it. I just wanted to try and evolve with the system to bring a little more savings (and hopefully more backers) to international backers.
2. The are no remaining printed decks the few slots left are all the decks that are left.
3. Scarlett is two and she thinks all of my decks are just another opportunity for her to practice her ripping skills. :)
4. The Arrow deck will return next year for sure. It will have a standard edition and a LTD edition.
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3. Scarlett is two and she thinks all of my decks are just another opportunity for her to practice her ripping skills. :)
4. The Arrow deck will return next year for sure. It will have a standard edition and a LTD edition.
Ha, Scarlett sounds adorable, and I am sure when she is old enough she will treasure them!!!
Yay, Arrow deck will return.
Thanks for answering my questions Jackson!
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If I had my druthers, the gilded deck would have been the only limited one (discounting the wooden boxed one). I would have loved to have one (I have no gilded decks yet and I actually made it through Amazon checkout and got the receipt for the tier with the gilded version but then Kickstarter said the tier was sold out, grrrr!), but I really, really wish the standard/basic Scarlett wasn't limited. I would have loved to get at least half a brick because I think it's gorgeous and I would like to actually USE it and play cards with it.
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I don't think most people are complaining about price or truck complexity. Lack of availability seems to be what I see going on. I think the sweet spot will show up at some point. I don't think 950 decks is it, specially for traditional cut since they scream to be used, but hey that's just me.
Curious how many of my fellow posters would enjoy someone popping up telling them how to do their job. That's what some seem to be doing here to Jackson. Remember fellas, this is how Jackson earns a living. He's taken the argument pretty well so far, but I'm sure it has to be frustrating repeating himself over and over. Which is what it looks like he's having to do to appease the peanut gallery. haha, At what point is enough enough? :P
When will we be seeing more of the deck? We've only seen the KoS so far and it's fantastic. How about a Joker, or a Queen, or an Ace? :)
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There was absolutely nothing limited edition in the silver arrow project. Nothing....... Nothing. What drowned out the conversation was people wanted kings wild to do what kings wild did. I'm not sure how it can be any more crystal clear than the first nine minutes of the Scarlett project even in the midst of a super saturated market AND at Christmas time when people won't even get their rewards until April.
This is really frustrating for me to read. Your Arrow project was killed by the Pearl edition, because it was limited. Not due to having a production cap or a number/a slighter larger number printed on a shiny sticker on the cello, but it was limited because not everyone could get it, it came with a prerequisite, and while you may have intended it as a thank you for the brick backers, it was an F*** you to the other backers. The Pearl Edition completely compromised what that project was supposed to be about, and the community believes that project would have been a success without it and haven't given up on that belief.
The problem here for me, and what is so frustrating, is that I believe you are the only person in the position to actually change the market intentionally, the only designer that could have made the Arrow ideal work, and you see it's failure as people not wanting that and I think that is flawed. Scarlett isn't proof of the opposite, Scarlett is proof that people aren't willing to miss out on one of your decks regardless of the price or availability. I myself am willing to put my living situation at risk so that I don't miss out on the Legacy box, where the only tier I could get is the J1 and I'm not willing to try and trade it and lose my opportunity to get the deck I want. That is my choice, and not the point of this post.
But you are making all of the cues and the crowd-fund design community is following your lead. the Arrow project was a good first step to correcting the problem in the community, but you scrapped that ideal after one failed attempt and rebounded harder than a high school girl that got dumped on prom and created the Scarlett project. People will see this, everyone will see this, and follow suit and the market is going to get more and more expensive and exclusive as Don is prophesying. You are the only person that has a power and the following to single-handedly direct the market and I hate believing that you took the absolute worst perspective away from the Arrow project.
While I don't get to say, even remotely, how you should run your business and how you should do what makes you happy and that people absolutely love, I just want to try and provide some lateral perspective on the situation, because you hold all of the cards (see what I did there? Eh..? Eeehhhh...??), and while you don't have any obligation whatsoever, people look to you for next steps.
And no matter what, I will continue to do what I have to do to make sure I get exactly what I want from every one of your projects. But I hope that that won't always see me pledging $370 I will never be able to afford so I don't miss out on your decks. Not because I want expensive, super limited edition decks (even if I love having something other people don't get to have.), but because I don't want to miss out on the best Jackson Robinson decks regardless of the cost.
Edited to remove a tacky smiley that somehow got in there...
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There was absolutely nothing limited edition in the silver arrow project. Nothing....... Nothing. What drowned out the conversation was people wanted kings wild to do what kings wild did. I'm not sure how it can be any more crystal clear than the first nine minutes of the Scarlett project even in the midst of a super saturated market AND at Christmas time when people won't even get their rewards until April.
This is really frustrating for me to read. Your Arrow project was killed by the Pearl edition, because it was limited. Not due to having a production cap or a number/a slighter larger number printed on a shiny sticker on the cello, but it was limited because not everyone could get it, it came with a prerequisite, and while you may have intended it as a thank you for the brick backers, it was an F*** you to the other backers. The Pearl Edition completely compromised what that project was supposed to be about, and the community believes that project would have been a success without it and haven't given up on that belief.
The problem here for me, and what is so frustrating, is that I believe you are the only person in the position to actually change the market intentionally, the only designer that could have made the Arrow ideal work, and you see it's failure as people not wanting that and I think that is flawed. Scarlett isn't proof of the opposite, Scarlett is proof that people aren't willing to miss out on one of your decks regardless of the price or availability. I myself am willing to put my living situation at risk so that I don't miss out on the Legacy box, where the only tier I could get is the J1 and I'm not willing to try and trade it and lose my opportunity to get the deck I want. That is my choice, and not the point of this post.
But you are making all of the cues and the crowd-fund design community is following your lead. the Arrow project was a good first step to correcting the problem in the community, but you scrapped that ideal after one failed attempt and rebounded harder than a high school girl that got dumped on prom and created the Scarlett project. People will see this, everyone will see this, and follow suit and the market is going to get more and more expensive and exclusive as Don is prophesying. You are the only person that has a power and the following to single-handedly direct the market and I hate believing that you took the absolute worst perspective away from the Arrow project.
While I don't get to say, even remotely, how you should run your business and how you should do what makes you happy and that people absolutely love, I just want to try and provide some lateral perspective on the situation, because you hold all of the cards (see what I did there? Eh..? Eeehhhh...??), and while you don't have any obligation whatsoever, people look to you for next steps.
And no matter what, I will continue to do what I have to do to make sure I get exactly what I want from every one of your projects. But I hope that that won't always see me pledging $370 I will never be able to afford so I don't miss out on your decks. Not because I want expensive, super limited edition decks (even if I love having something other people don't get to have.), but because I don't want to miss out on the best Jackson Robinson decks regardless of the cost.
Edited to remove a tacky smiley that somehow got in there...
While I absolutely cherish your support I think that this conversation is a never-ending black hole of nothingness. On one hand you have people that view what I'm doing and the way it plays on the market as a bad thing and call it a "problem" with the market and then you have people including myself that don't see it as a problem mearly a call to all designers to step up their game and fight even harder for people's business and patronage. If I pushed for cheaper decks you as a Kings Wild fan would get less than my best because cheaper decks can't afford the things I want to do with the entire vision of a deck. People are quick to rush into the "We don't Bells and whistles" on our decks, when bells and whistles are exactly what brought me into this industry.
Wine and Spirit labeling is what indirectly brought me to playing cards. And in that world you have a wide range of labeling for a wide range of price tags on beverages. Just because you can go to the grocery story and buy a can of Colt 45 for $3 doesn't mean that a $4000 bottle of 100 year old scotch is a "problem" in the industry. It only means that the industry is deepening and widening.
This is really the one thousandth time I've conversed about this topic and it always comes down to one thing. It is up to each and every person to choose or not to choose to swipe their credit card. If my decks are to expensive or you feel they are not worth the price tag don't buy them. If no one buys them I will be forced to change my direction.
I feel my decks are the highest quality of design and thought I wouldn't remain in the playing card business if I had was forced to make diet Kings Wild decks. That doesn't interest me at all. What interests me is doing things no one else is doing, and that calls for a price tag both on my part and the consumers. For every 1 person who thinks what i'm doing is leading the industry down a problematic path there are 3 people who don't even care because they are not even in the industry but back everyone of my projects.
On a different note, I can't see in any world or universe how me creating a deck that was offered as an intensive was a big F U to my supporters. THE ONLY way the Arrows were going to be successful was if I sold a TON of decks and that was my incentive to sell a TON of decks. The average pledge for the arrows was $20 and around 2 decks a person. At that rate I would have need multiple thousands of backers to make it work. Even if I offered both decks to every one my backers would have still only bought two decks because those are the types of backers that make up the majority of my customer base. I don't heard thousands of magicians like Blain who buy brick upon brick. There were only round 90 people who bought a brick during the Arrow project when they were cheaper than two Gold Editions in the Scarlett project. The reasoning why the Arrows fails was simple my customers, for the most part do not buy bricks, they buy one or two decks.
What is the most disheartening aspect of this industry is for some reason everyone and their dog has taken it upon themselves to mount a all out attack on me and my moral motives as a designer and a business man. That is why I have left the pipe dream of making everyone happy behind me and am now laser focusing on enriching the experiences of those who back me and support me.
Justin like a mentioned first off, I cherish your support and promise you that no matter how long you chose to support me and buy my decks you will be assured that they will be unlike any other.
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And no matter what, I will continue to do what I have to do to make sure I get exactly what I want from every one of your projects. But I hope that that won't always see me pledging $370 I will never be able to afford so I don't miss out on your decks. Not because I want expensive, super limited edition decks (even if I love having something other people don't get to have.), but because I don't want to miss out on the best Jackson Robinson decks regardless of the cost.
Justin I can't say this with anymore honesty and sincerity if I tried, I know it's your choice, but this statement has me very concerned from one collector to another.
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Justin like I mentioned first off, I cherish your support and promise you that no matter how long you chose to support me and buy my decks you will be assured that they will be unlike any other.
I appreciate response, and I image you have a completely different view of all of this from your side. I didn't want you to feel attacked. But you are the largest name in crowd-fund design and you don't get to ask that people not attack you for your choices or business decisions, it comes with the territory. I strongly believe that people need to do what is true to themselves, but I think it is important to temper that action with forever trying to broaden the scope of their understanding of what it is that they do, and all I wanted to do was provide a little broader of a perspective on the situation from a perspective that I feel is very different from yours but also widely viewed. Your designs are excellent, and worth every penny, but I don't want everyone to think theirs is, and that, ultimately is my dilemma, because there are a lot of decks I want to own, and I am having to pay more and more to own them.
Justin I can't say this with anymore honesty and sincerity if I tried, I know it's your choice, but this statement has me very concerned from one collector to another.
I understand and appreciate that, and would really be more than happy to hear your concern and try to allay it through PM, but I really don't want to compromise the point I as trying to make by letting it get derailed by my unhealthy habits. But thank you for voicing your concern proactively.
And to stay on point a little bit better in general, I love this deck, even without any prior attraction to Tally-Ho decks in general, this is a gorgeous and stellar example of KW design, and yeah, it's really expensive, but I think it is worth it, despite the collateral damage.
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If I had my druthers, the gilded deck would have been the only limited one (discounting the wooden boxed one). I would have loved to have one (I have no gilded decks yet and I actually made it through Amazon checkout and got the receipt for the tier with the gilded version but then Kickstarter said the tier was sold out, grrrr!), but I really, really wish the standard/basic Scarlett wasn't limited. I would have loved to get at least half a brick because I think it's gorgeous and I would like to actually USE it and play cards with it.
Not to side track, but if you get the chance, grab a deck or two of the Aladdin 1002 which are a gilded deck by USPCC. I believe you should be able to find them for not much more than a standard deck of cards (4-6$ range plus S&H).
I'm glad this deck was funded, but can it be April 2015 already? I'd love to finally have these cards printed and ready to be shipped out.
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To continue the Side Track because, that's what we do here haha. The gilding on the Aladdins makes them a little clumpity clump. Really gotta work them out a bit before it relaxes and it never completely goes away. They do clump much less over time though haha. Just my experience with them. Agree a great deck to add to collections and play with.
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I got both gilded Aladdins and Ramblers. The corners are chopped at 45 degrees. Very visible clamp marks.
They are interesting, but more curiosities rather than something special.
/bama
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Jackson, you're absolutely right in saying that you have every right to follow your bliss and make exactly the kinds of decks that your customers are happy to pay for.
There's an undeniable fact, though - Kings Wild has been leading the industry not simply in finely-made decks but also in terms of pricing and project complexity. I invented the term "deck fatigue" not long after you launched the second Federal 52 series. The completist collector ends up blowing three figures on some of your projects, due solely to the number of different decks in some of your projects. You introduced us to the $15 deck (domestic shipping included). This is a wonderful thing for you, but many people have seen your prices, got that light-bulb-over-the-head moment and thought they could get rich quick by making playing cards. Some really, really crappy playing cards. You had no control over this happening, and it isn't your fault. It's simply a side effect of your success. Because of this "halo effect" and the enthusiasm of your fan base, you have started to steer the custom deck segment of the playing card market to a certain degree, for well or ill.
It sounds corny, perhaps even stupid, but I think what some of us are trying to say is, "With great power comes great responsibility."
You felt that "Silver Arrows" was a failure - had it been simplified by not having a tough-to-obtain deck, I feel it would have succeeded. Note I didn't say "more expensive", just more difficult to obtain - which in the end will add up to more expensive in the secondary market. If the second deck was as common and easy-to-obtain as the first, the project would have been a screaming success, I feel. But those are just the opinions of a single person - who knows what could have happened? No one, really.
And with that note, everyone, I'd like to do one of two things:
1) end the tangent and move on, or
2) break this tangent off and move it somewhere else, probably my old topic about pretty much this same chain of thought.
What happens is up to you. Jackson, I'll do 2) regardless if you request it, since we have seriously hijacked your topic. I did back your project for two decks and I can only imagine that Scarlett will find it very touching as she grows older that her daddy loved her enough to dedicate an awesome deck of playing cards after her. I know of extremely few people who can say that!
Bama, Fes, Bhong - Guys - Ramblers? Aladdins? Don't we have topics about them? If not, MAKE THEM! We've done enough damage here!
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I feel no need to continue but I understand your point completely. However I would like to make sure that you are aware of the facts. I did not introduce the $15 deck at all. None of my standard decks have been anything over $12. The only deck that was set at $15 was the Army Premium and it was not the standard deck. You may give that award to someone else. My prices have been reasonable and steadfast from the beginning.
Standard Decks Including Shipping
Fed 52 $11
Gold Cert $11
White Reserve $12
Silver Cert $12
Baker Street $12
Holmes $12
Moriarty $12
Hounds $12
Crown Standard $12
Continental Standard $12
Standard Army $10
other decks that have been above this price point have been much higher in production cost and also NON standard.
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For those of you that I met at the 52+ con, probably noticed my GF has red hair. So I may be a little partial to red.
I really think this is a beautiful deck. This may be my favorite JR deck to date. I didn't get the tier I wanted, but I will own a few of these decks. So I'm happy.
1,000th post
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There's an undeniable fact, though - Kings Wild has been leading the industry not simply in finely-made decks but also in terms of pricing and project complexity. I invented the term "deck fatigue" not long after you launched the second Federal 52 series. The completist collector ends up blowing three figures on some of your projects, due solely to the number of different decks in some of your projects. You introduced us to the $15 deck (domestic shipping included). This is a wonderful thing for you, but many people have seen your prices, got that light-bulb-over-the-head moment and thought they could get rich quick by making playing cards. Some really, really crappy playing cards. You had no control over this happening, and it isn't your fault. It's simply a side effect of your success. Because of this "halo effect" and the enthusiasm of your fan base, you have started to steer the custom deck segment of the playing card market to a certain degree, for well or ill.
@ Don: I'm sorry to continue this. If I may add my 2 cents.
Jackson's (KWP's) impact on the industry is really a glass half empty, glass half full hypothesis.
On one hand you could look at it (glass half empty) and say the light bulb came on for those looking to get rich quick. As a result more crap has flooded the playing card market.
OR
You can look at it (glass half full), that the playing card market is trending and people were going to try to get rich quick anyway by producing more crap. Jackson provides collectors with a better option for investing their money.
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For those of you that I met at the 52+ con, probably noticed my GF has red hair. So I may be a little partial to red.
I really think this is a beautiful deck. This may be my favorite JR deck to date. I didn't get the tier I wanted, but I will own a few of these decks. So I'm happy.
Be careful Rob. I ended-up marrying my redheaded GF.
/bama
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I think it's hard to just blame one person for anything that happens in the playing card world.
Cost of everything goes up and if that happens, unfortunately, a business has to pass that onto the consumers as they can't afford to bare it all without going out of business. A business is out to produce an amazing product, but ultimate they have to make a profit doing it. As far as I know, Jackson has always priced his work accordingly for what he does. I think the thing is that most of his decks have everything (nice paper stock, emboss, foil, inside printing) and all that is expensive.
As for the 15$ deck, I believe Dan and Dave has the Bruce Lee deck last year for 15$ not to mention the Stranger and Stranger deck for 25$ for awhile now and 12$ Arrco Tahoe. Then there was the 18$ Mana (v1) on CARC's site when they were released. Then Ellusionist has their 15$ for the limited edition Madison Hustlers. Art of Play had 12$ for the Exquisite Bold. As for limited run decks, there have been the Zenith, Red (tuck) Whispering Imps, Black Empire Bloodlines, Ornate Obsidians, 52+J deck are all pretty pricey, but extremely beautiful decks. I believe all of Albino Dragon's recent licensed decks have been 15$ on Kickstarter including domestic shipping. I'm in no way faulting any company for what they do, but I wanted to list and point out others have also created decks that have been costly, too.
It sucks that it cost more, but equally, it's understandable and I think it's hard to just lay the blame on one person no matter how many decks they've produced and designed.
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I feel no need to continue but I understand your point completely. However I would like to make sure that you are aware of the facts. I did not introduce the $15 deck at all. None of my standard decks have been anything over $12. The only deck that was set at $15 was the Army Premium and it was not the standard deck. You may give that award to someone else. My prices have been reasonable and steadfast from the beginning.
Standard Decks Including Shipping
Fed 52 $11
Gold Cert $11
White Reserve $12
Silver Cert $12
Baker Street $12
Holmes $12
Moriarty $12
Hounds $12
Crown Standard $12
Continental Standard $12
Standard Army $10
other decks that have been above this price point have been much higher in production cost and also NON standard.
I looked and you are indeed correct. I must have mixed up the projects that were out around that time. So who was it with the first $15 deck? Do you guys know? PM me if you find out.
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My decision to run the Scarlett Tally Hos how I am, actually had nothing to do what the after market does or might do with my decks. Sure tons of people made money of the Feds and other decks of mine in the after market. I didn't really care one way or the other, I for sure wasn't ever upset or felt like I was getting jipped out of possible income. I was happy that I was getting to design cards for a living.
The structure of the Scarlett Tally Hos has 100% to do with what the people that allow me to design cards for a living wanted and spoke loud and clear with the voices and wallets. Sure I would love to produce a $5 deck but the reality is it will not be the deck that I want it to be.
What about including unlimited display deck purchases with your decks? Wouldn't this help economies of scale? It would help get more of your artwork out there and people using the cards more. A nice tuck is nice, but $5 display decks would be great. Do you think display desk hurt limited edition decks?
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I feel no need to continue but I understand your point completely. However I would like to make sure that you are aware of the facts. I did not introduce the $15 deck at all. None of my standard decks have been anything over $12. The only deck that was set at $15 was the Army Premium and it was not the standard deck. You may give that award to someone else. My prices have been reasonable and steadfast from the beginning.
Standard Decks Including Shipping
Fed 52 $11
Gold Cert $11
White Reserve $12
Silver Cert $12
Baker Street $12
Holmes $12
Moriarty $12
Hounds $12
Crown Standard $12
Continental Standard $12
Standard Army $10
other decks that have been above this price point have been much higher in production cost and also NON standard.
I looked and you are indeed correct. I must have mixed up the projects that were out around that time. So who was it with the first $15 deck? Do you guys know? PM me if you find out.
I might be wrong but I think Pedal was the first $15 deck and that was months before I came onto the scene.
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Jackson, you've had my support 100% on every card (and currency) project that you have released, including this one, and you will continue to do so.
Folks, I like Lamborghinis. That doesn't mean that I will sell everything to get them, I will just lovingly dream from afar. I don't have to have every single thing that I want, nor does anyone else. People don't have to be so bitter about a deck being so exclusive or priced beyond what their particular budget will allow. Use your valuable time to enjoy what you have, not be bitter about what you don't. Don't let things control your life or happiness. If you can't obtain a KWP Scarlett in a wood case, then enjoy your Federal 52! It's all phenomenal work, and Jackson's heart, dreams, and talent on every deck, especially for you! Respect and appreciate that, regardless if it's the most common deck that he makes, or the most exclusive!
I was able to snag a gilded deck and a friend pledged for a standard tier for me, and I am looking forward to these. I wanted the top version, but I was helping a friend move and missed my calendar reminder for the launch. I was luck to get a gilded, there were only two left when I logged in. I am a serious collector (modern releases), especially of the ultra-rare editions of decks. I'm not unhappy because I didn't score the top tier deck (as it stands, that will be the only one of JR's decks that I don't have at least one of), I'm thrilled with what I have. I may find an affordable one for sale down the road but if I don't, that's ok, I'll survive and be happy, and will eagerly anticipate the next JR/KW release! He's working very hard to provide us with a stellar quality deck with art far and above the Bikes that were our only option not that long ago, all at an affordable price. I for one truly appreciate that, and show my support with my wallet. Kudos, Jackson...as long as you have those super-limited coming out, I will definitely be in line for them! I would love to have the talent to produce art so beautiful that people are clamoring to get it but alas, I'm still trying to perfect simply signing my name, from art in kindergarten! ;-)
In a nutshell, buy to have fun and be happy, whether you use the cards, or lock them away in a safe. When the fun disappears from your purchases, it may be time to reconsider what you are doing.
<eternal optimist rant off, soapbox stowed away>
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@Jackson - You are right. Pedale was the first $100,000 big dog deck. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1537415287/a-deck-of-playing-cards-by-pedale-design (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1537415287/a-deck-of-playing-cards-by-pedale-design)
He did fulfill his backers. https://vimeo.com/59008387 (https://vimeo.com/59008387) That was a challenge.
I remember you when you first came on the scene Jackson. http://www.playingcardforum.com/index.php?topic=4311.0;topicseen (http://www.playingcardforum.com/index.php?topic=4311.0;topicseen)
I'll go ahead and say it. You will change the way ppl will play with cards in the next hundred years. I just know it, but do know cards have been around for 600 years. Also, you can't please everyone. You said it best... Always hear, but don't aways listen....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A19q7rysLs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A19q7rysLs)
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I might be wrong but I think Pedal was the first $15 deck and that was months before I came onto the scene.
No, you're on the money! As Russell stated before me, the Pedale Design/Misc. Goods Co. deck was the first KS deck to sell for $15 and the first deck project to break the $100,000 funding mark. I think it was still the best-funded deck until the first Federal 52 project came along.
I do apologize, you're absolutely correct in that your pricing has been more reasonable than some if not most and that you aren't at the top end of the cost scale most of the time. This deck would be the sole exception to date, where the base model was more expensive than the majority of KS decks made, but it's also a case where the grand total of all the decks in all the models are slated to be made in a print run of fewer than 1,000.
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Good God, the posts in this topic are long. Any news on what will happen during the remainder of the campaign since no more decks will be sold?
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Good God, the posts in this topic are long. Any news on what will happen during the remainder of the campaign since no more decks will be sold?
I'll just quote JR from his project update
"First off I must say that the turn out of support for this project has been dumbfounding to me. I never imagined that EVERY slot available would be taken within the first 48 hours.
That leads me to what you are probably asking now, What's next? What acts are you going to do for the next 28 days, you circus monkey to entertain us. :)
Now that we have I strong base of backers I want you guys to help lead what is next. I have a few ideas and concepts I'm working on but ultimately I want you guys to voice your opinions.
I have some interesting ideas and thoughts but would like to hear what everyones thoughts are, so have at it. Please leave your comments below of some ideas you might have for the rest of the project.
I only have one basic parameter on the conversation though.
I am not going to add more decks to the existing print runs. What is happens next will be for everyone and only for those who are already backing the project. I don't plan on adding any more tiers or pledge slots. If anything is added it will be treated as an addon and not a new tier."
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I must admit that I'm looking forward to what goodies that JR will pull out of his hat for this one! There have been some really good suggestions in the comments.
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I must admit that I'm looking forward to what goodies that JR will pull out of his hat for this one! There have been some really good suggestions in the comments.
There is a voting process going on now i believe for all backers.
A) Display Deck
B & C) Some Art Print or something. Don't really care.
Please vote A...... :P
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Display decks are nice but I voted for prints. The way I see it is I pledged for 2 decks so if I wanted to play with one deck I just open one and keep one. Value of sealed deck goes up. Its a win win for me.
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A is "useable" decks.
B is an art poster.
C is an art print - like B but fancier and suitable for framing.
I went for them in the order presented; A, B and C.
This is going to be a rather unusual project from this point out. There will be no new backers unless someone backs out, so the only way to breathe more money into the project would be by enticing the present backers to spend more money... I can't say I've seen a project like this before.
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This is going to be a rather unusual project from this point out. There will be no new backers unless someone backs out, so the only way to breathe more money into the project would be by enticing the present backers to spend more money... I can't say I've seen a project like this before.
I haven't seen one like this before either. It's an interesting experiment. Looking forward to how it plays out.
It has to be a fun problem to be faced with. I have never seen another Playing Card Kickstarter sell out entirely before. What bigger compliment could there be?
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This is going to be a rather unusual project from this point out. There will be no new backers unless someone backs out, so the only way to breathe more money into the project would be by enticing the present backers to spend more money... I can't say I've seen a project like this before.
I haven't seen one like this before either. It's an interesting experiment. Looking forward to how it plays out.
It has to be a fun problem to be faced with. I have never seen another Playing Card Kickstarter sell out entirely before. What bigger compliment could there be?
I've seen sellouts before - Bicycle Emperor was one, Bohemia was another. But in both cases, they simply made a new deck with a different color as the "unlimited version" and continued racking up sales. Jackson's specifically catering to a market of people who are all about the rare and the collectible - 491 individuals. How far will they be able to take this project? No one knows, yet - as you said, it's an interesting experiment.
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This is going to be a rather unusual project from this point out. There will be no new backers unless someone backs out, so the only way to breathe more money into the project would be by enticing the present backers to spend more money... I can't say I've seen a project like this before.
I haven't seen one like this before either. It's an interesting experiment. Looking forward to how it plays out.
It has to be a fun problem to be faced with. I have never seen another Playing Card Kickstarter sell out entirely before. What bigger compliment could there be?
I've seen sellouts before - Bicycle Emperor was one, Bohemia was another. But in both cases, they simply made a new deck with a different color as the "unlimited version" and continued racking up sales. Jackson's specifically catering to a market of people who are all about the rare and the collectible - 491 individuals. How far will they be able to take this project? No one knows, yet - as you said, it's an interesting experiment.
The problem with this whole Ultra Limited campaign is that it has alienated many of his loyal costumers who, for whatever reason, did not get in on this. I understand the limited decks but I think an unlimited or maybe just less limited version should have been made available as well. Mayhaps minus the bells and whistles but some version of it for all would have been great. Not to mention it would have bolstered his sales that much more.
Think about how many companies offer multiple versions of their products to procure as many consumers as they can from as many demographics as they can.
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The problem with this whole Ultra Limited campaign is that it has alienated many of his loyal costumers who, for whatever reason, did not get in on this. I understand the limited decks but I think an unlimited or maybe just less limited version should have been made available as well. Mayhaps minus the bells and whistles but some version of it for all would have been great. Not to mention it would have bolstered his sales that much more.
Think about how many companies offer multiple versions of their products to procure as many consumers as they can from as many demographics as they can.
The whole idea's been beaten to death in the previous posts on this topic.
It's simple - money talks. His loyal, money-spending customers wanted a release that fit this pattern, so he chose this pattern. It's a matter of time to see how successful it is for him - it's looking pretty successful so far, considering that it's completely sold out. It's in how well he'll be able to target his audience with add-ons, talking them into increasing their pledges.
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The problem with this whole Ultra Limited campaign is that it has alienated many of his loyal costumers who, for whatever reason, did not get in on this. I understand the limited decks but I think an unlimited or maybe just less limited version should have been made available as well. Mayhaps minus the bells and whistles but some version of it for all would have been great. Not to mention it would have bolstered his sales that much more.
Think about how many companies offer multiple versions of their products to procure as many consumers as they can from as many demographics as they can.
The whole idea's been beaten to death in the previous posts on this topic.
It's simple - money talks. His loyal, money-spending customers wanted a release that fit this pattern, so he chose this pattern. It's a matter of time to see how successful it is for him - it's looking pretty successful so far, considering that it's completely sold out. It's in how well he'll be able to target his audience with add-ons, talking them into increasing their pledges.
Just wanted to throw my two cents in.....
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Poster, print, decks for me.
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I love the idea of having display decks, but kinda wish he'll also release some sort of a coin as an add on too
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This is going to be a rather unusual project from this point out. There will be no new backers unless someone backs out, so the only way to breathe more money into the project would be by enticing the present backers to spend more money... I can't say I've seen a project like this before.
I haven't seen one like this before either. It's an interesting experiment. Looking forward to how it plays out.
It has to be a fun problem to be faced with. I have never seen another Playing Card Kickstarter sell out entirely before. What bigger compliment could there be?
Jackson wasn't the first to run a campaign with only limited tiers. The Venexiana Gold campaign also did this, and was completely sold out within the first day or so. However, it had a shorter funding period of 4 days. Similar concept, just that Jackson's campaign runs longer.
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This is going to be a rather unusual project from this point out. There will be no new backers unless someone backs out, so the only way to breathe more money into the project would be by enticing the present backers to spend more money... I can't say I've seen a project like this before.
I haven't seen one like this before either. It's an interesting experiment. Looking forward to how it plays out.
It has to be a fun problem to be faced with. I have never seen another Playing Card Kickstarter sell out entirely before. What bigger compliment could there be?
Jackson wasn't the first to run a campaign with only limited tiers. The Venexiana Gold campaign also did this, and was completely sold out within the first day or so. However, it had a shorter funding period of 4 days. Similar concept, just that Jackson's campaign runs longer.
haha, that's right! I spaced on those probably because mine are locked up in a black box. I need to fix that situation.
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I love the idea of having display decks, but kinda wish he'll also release some sort of a coin as an add on too
Now for me, the coins are probably one of the least desirable items in a deck campaign. After you have a handful of them, then what? You're going to become a private-press numismatist? How many card covers designed after deck ideas does one need or desire? I felt the same way about dice after a while. Circle City Cards started it with the Bicycle Americana deck, then every deck producer and his cousin was making custom dice. It begs the question, "Just how many six-sided dice does one person need?" Even hard-core gamers tend to use more than just the humble six-sider, and if they do find a gaming system that uses more, they're not using THAT much more that they need a handful of them every deck campaign. I wouldn't know what to do with them, except perhaps invent the sport of dice target throwing - it's like table-top curling but not as cold... :))
But that's just me. People want what they want, period. Who am I to argue?
Jackson wasn't the first to run a campaign with only limited tiers. The Venexiana Gold campaign also did this, and was completely sold out within the first day or so. However, it had a shorter funding period of 4 days. Similar concept, just that Jackson's campaign runs longer.
There's a BIG difference between a four-day campaign and a 30-day campaign. He sold out in 48 hours - in theory, he could simply twiddle his thumbs for the next four weeks! But no, he's looking for ways to make customers happy enough to part with more cash. Don't misunderstand me - there is NOTHING wrong with making people happy to part with their cash! It's just that because of the campaign limitations, instead of selling his wicked-cool extras to a wide and broad audience, he's selling them to less than 500 people worldwide. The potential at that point seems limited to me.
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He could have offered an unlimited standard deck and increase the number of people pledging for his campaign, but that doesn't necessarily translate to more funds/profit as evidenced by his previous Tally Ho and Silver Arrow Deck. Although this campaign seems limiting, it has already surpassed the amount of money raised in either of the two previously mentioned campaigns. Jackson has learned to identify what his consumers want, and that's limited edition decks. Less people willing to pay more but raise much more money, versus much more people paying less and therefore raising not as much money. Furthermore, he's already found a way to persuade that group of 500 backers to pay more - display decks.
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He could have offered an unlimited standard deck and increase the number of people pledging for his campaign, but that doesn't necessarily translate to more funds/profit as evidenced by his previous Tally Ho and Silver Arrow Deck. Although this campaign seems limiting, it has already surpassed the amount of money raised in either of the two previously mentioned campaigns. Jackson has learned to identify what his consumers want, and that's limited edition decks. Less people willing to pay more but raise much more money, versus much more people paying less and therefore raising not as much money. Furthermore, he's already found a way to persuade that group of 500 backers to pay more - display decks.
I say that is probably true. It is really somewhat a 2 sided coin. If you are one of the backers, you are probably pleased you are getting the decks. If not, you are just gonna complain why he aint making more.
If he released a standard deck for the general public, he sure may get an additional 500 backers getting a deck or 2. But by limiting it to his current backers, and setting another limit for the display decks at 4 per backer. He might as well get everyone pledging 4 decks for not only its design, usability, and now limit-ability as well.
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Very true, Sher and PurpleIce. Plus, as we have seen a couple of times in the past, a lot of collectors take offense when extra decks are added to limited editions (even though they still may be limited in the truest sense of the word),and many abandon their pledges. Some new backers come in, and some older ones leave so at times, I can imagine that it's a push. JR's designs are so desirable that it may not be as big of an issue, but I personally would hate to be in his shoes if that onslaught of complaints started rolling in. From a creator's standpoint, it's probably very interesting to see the numbers as to what tiers/decks/add-ons sell how fast, and to how many different backers. That's invaluable information that can be utilized to tailor the next project. I'm just happy that JR and some of the other creators care enough to find out what backers want and do their best to give us items that make us happy, and provide value, instead of just saying that it is what it is. It's a fun time to be a collector!
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He could have offered an unlimited standard deck and increase the number of people pledging for his campaign, but that doesn't necessarily translate to more funds/profit as evidenced by his previous Tally Ho and Silver Arrow Deck. Although this campaign seems limiting, it has already surpassed the amount of money raised in either of the two previously mentioned campaigns. Jackson has learned to identify what his consumers want, and that's limited edition decks. Less people willing to pay more but raise much more money, versus much more people paying less and therefore raising not as much money. Furthermore, he's already found a way to persuade that group of 500 backers to pay more - display decks.
These aren't really apt comparisons. The Scarlett Tally Ho is a straight-up Kickstarter proiect that (so far) appears to be slated to run out its term. The KW Tally Ho deck was just that, Kings Wild, not a Kickstarter project. The Silver Arrow decks were on KS, but never made it to term - the project was canceled before it was scheduled to end by Jackson himself, so technically it raised zero dollars as a result. It's more like comparing apples, transmission fluid and argon gas - they don't have enough in common.
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@Jackson - Really glad you kept the symbolism of the Orb in the KoC.
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Don, as far as dice, DMs generally have close to a hundred if not more of them. Helps when doing multiple enemy attacks, players without them come, different things require them. Also I know there is an RPG someone told me bout once that each player needed lie 50 of them.
I really enjoy coins, I can add something people have not seen to my show.
As far as the deck, as expected its amazing.
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Friendly reminder time.
Six hours left on this campaign. No slots available at the moment, but check it in the final half hour and some should show up. It's the nature of people to sit on pledges and let them go in the last minutes for some reason, I don't know why.
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Friendly reminder time.
Six hours left on this campaign. No slots available at the moment, but check it in the final half hour and some should show up. It's the nature of people to sit on pledges and let them go in the last minutes for some reason, I don't know why.
They let them go because they're having backers' remorse - suddenly all those deadlines are coming due and a person may not have the funds to cover it all, so they've gotta let something go. Their loss, some lucky potential backer's gain.
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Friendly reminder time.
Six hours left on this campaign. No slots available at the moment, but check it in the final half hour and some should show up. It's the nature of people to sit on pledges and let them go in the last minutes for some reason, I don't know why.
They let them go because they're having backers' remorse - suddenly all those deadlines are coming due and a person may not have the funds to cover it all, so they've gotta let something go. Their loss, some lucky potential backer's gain.
I understand some ditching when they realize they won't be able to cover. It's the keeping a pledge until into the last hour knowing it's going to be dropped is what I can't figure out. Makes much more sense to drop days early so it frees up the slot for someone who's been actively checking the campaign. Maybe it's the whole "if I can't have it no one can!" mentality that causes the pledge dump in the last 10 minutes.
Just glad they were all snatched up. With these pledge slots being so limited it would have been terrible to see any empty pledges at the end.
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I understand some ditching when they realize they won't be able to cover. It's the keeping a pledge until into the last hour knowing it's going to be dropped is what I can't figure out. Makes much more sense to drop days early so it frees up the slot for someone who's been actively checking the campaign. Maybe it's the whole "if I can't have it no one can!" mentality that causes the pledge dump in the last 10 minutes.
Just glad they were all snatched up. With these pledge slots being so limited it would have been terrible to see any empty pledges at the end.
No, I don't see malice behind it. It's just a case of wishful thinking that they could pay for the pledge, then at the last hour or so realizing it's just not possible and accepting it. Think of it as similar to the mindset of a shopaholic, but with slightly better impulse control. The ones without the impulse control are the ones whose cards get declined in the pledge collection stage!
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I agree with Don. I've backed over 200 projects on KS, and it's VERY easy to get excited about a project initially, but have second thought about price, the ability of the creator to deliver (not in this case, of course), a gut feeling that something with the item isn't quite right, or the day of reckoning when you check your list of what you're backing, add everything up, and then meet reality face to face when you consider the chunk of change that you're dropping! I've dropped a few projects in the past, but only because things start looking fishy with product capability claims, the lack of ability for a creator to deliver a product, or too many small issues popping up that aren't addressed adequately by the creator. I've seen a lot of folks drop pledges simply because they want to be a part of the initial rush of group excitement, but then decide that it's not for them. Sucks for both creators and other backers.
I'm excited to see this project remain fully backed and I'm eagerly anticipating the cards! Another great and fun project!
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Now that these decks are getting into circulation, I have a question and a prediction.
Question: what do you folks think of it so far?
Prediction: many people will keep their fancy boxes sealed and pristine and open their less-fancy display boxes - meaning that over time, it's the display boxes that will be the more scarce, and possibly the more valuable!
There's a precedent for this in collecting. (Probably many, but I can think of one.) When Kenner started releasing Star Wars action figures in 1978, the execs in charge of the project decided that the Jawa looked a bit lacking and wouldn't sell as well - it was the shortest/smallest of the figures and had a chintzy-looking vinyl cape on it, but all the figures were the same price. They ordered future shipments be packaged with a nicer cloth robe. Now, that chintzy-cape Jawa figure is the rare one that gets the big bucks, if you can find it mint in the original blister pack.
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I opened a Gold deck this morning to play solitaire.
The tucks are absolutely gorgeous -- at least +10 glamour spell. The cards themselves are stunning when the light shines on them. To be honest, the gilding isn't as nice as Uusi gold gilded decks -- I don't like the abbreviated corners. But man, for the price, they are 100% great. That's the KS price of course, not the eBay price!
I'm thinking of bringing a Gold or Legacy deck for the auction at this year's 52+J convention -- unless Jackson has similar plans of course!
/bama
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There's some here if anyone is interested. A real bargain, so don't miss out
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Scarlett-Tally-Ho-Playing-Cards-Gold-Gilded-Limited-Display-Decks-Kings-Wild-/111652843441?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19ff072fb1
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WOW!
I only have $899 in my paypal account, so I'm out :-[ .......... :)
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There's some here if anyone is interested. A real bargain, so don't miss out
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Scarlett-Tally-Ho-Playing-Cards-Gold-Gilded-Limited-Display-Decks-Kings-Wild-/111652843441?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19ff072fb1
That's outrageous... shipping for just ONE deck to the UK is 20 dollars?! Lol.
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Now that these decks are getting into circulation, I have a question and a prediction.
Question: what do you folks think of it so far?
Prediction: many people will keep their fancy boxes sealed and pristine and open their less-fancy display boxes - meaning that over time, it's the display boxes that will be the more scarce, and possibly the more valuable!
I have opened both my gold gilded deck (#32 / 200) and a display deck. Both are fabulous. I don't have an UUSI gilded deck to compare it with, but I'm very happy with it.
I actually like the shape of the pips on this version better than on the first version. Playing with the first edition, it was not as easy to tell the clubs and spades apart while playing Crazy 8s and drawing cards as it is on this Scarlett edition. (I admit part of the problem has to do with my 44 year-old eyes, LOL.) I like the backs better on this newer version, as well. Though I prefer the coloring of the courts on the original (but I do understand these are colored for the scarlet/red theme). All in all, I'm very happy with the decks.
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That's outrageous... shipping for just ONE deck to the UK is 20 dollars?! Lol.
Ignoring the dumb price of the deck....yes if you wrap up one deck nice and secure and put it in a USPS flat rate small box, postage alone is $20. :( (go ahead, ask me how I know this, says the guy who's spent about $8000 in postage the last two weeks...)
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There's some here if anyone is interested. A real bargain, so don't miss out
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Scarlett-Tally-Ho-Playing-Cards-Gold-Gilded-Limited-Display-Decks-Kings-Wild-/111652843441?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19ff072fb1
That's outrageous... shipping for just ONE deck to the UK is 20 dollars?! Lol.
Haha, well technically it would be $20 for 3 decks shipped...he/she is making about $6 off the shipping rate which could be used for shipping materials (bubble wrap, boxes, etc).....BUT if you're paying $900 for these three decks...you probably don't care at all about $20 shipping.
(go ahead, ask me how I know this, says the guy who's spent about $8000 in postage the last two weeks...)
Just about to do the same in a month...starting to prepare now haha.
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There's some here if anyone is interested. A real bargain, so don't miss out
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Scarlett-Tally-Ho-Playing-Cards-Gold-Gilded-Limited-Display-Decks-Kings-Wild-/111652843441?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19ff072fb1
WOW!
I only have $899 in my paypal account, so I'm out :-[ .......... :)
Holy cow....i'm selling mine when i get them! And i'll sell for $899!!! :P :P
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I just realized that the gilded version is slightly shorter than the non-gilded version. Does anyone know why?
/bama
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I just realized that the gilded version is slightly shorter than the non-gilded version. Does anyone know why?
/bama
I know that when Uusi does theirs, Peter uses a special jig/ clamp to hold the cards. He then sands the edges. It could be a case where who ever did these for Jackson over sanded them. I don't know if USPCC did them or he farmed them to somebody else.
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USPCC did all of the gilding for this deck, UUSI does every single one of there decks by hand and also with 24 Karat Gold. Not that USPCC did a poor job on the Scarletts, but the quality bar is always much higher with handwork and also top shelf materials... and also price. If I gilded my cards by hand and with 24 Karat Gold I would also charge UUSI prices for gilded decks...
FYI I will have hand gilded decks with 24 Gold leaf for Legal Tendar ;)
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USPCC did all of the gilding for this deck, UUSI does every single one of there decks by hand and also with 24 Karat Gold. Not that USPCC did a poor job on the Scarletts, but the quality bar is always much higher with handwork and also top shelf materials... and also price. If I gilded my cards by hand and with 24 Karat Gold I would also charge UUSI prices for gilded decks...
FYI I will have hand gilded decks with 24 Gold leaf for Legal Tendar ;)
Jackson, I can't wait for that Legal Tender campaign to begin. Now you are just upping the bar as always.