PlayingCardForum.com - A Discourse For Playing Cards
Playing Card Chat ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦ => Playing Card Plethora => Topic started by: Rose on October 17, 2014, 12:53:05 AM
-
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1163564006/cards-for-gods-and-goddesses-bicycle-olympus-playi?ref=discovery (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1163564006/cards-for-gods-and-goddesses-bicycle-olympus-playi?ref=discovery) KS
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/002/753/031/c52343ef856f630433d7fedfb4e2c471_large.png?1413492805)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/002/730/869/eaae89fe376a38e7bee81a9627e814a3_large.png?1413175447)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/002/746/458/d64f9bf2ee7f7b010317f194cf361c24_large.png?1413401102)
Also the Tuck Box
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/002/746/325/1bc6345948ab69f991cab812adfcd737_large.jpg?1413399711)
-
OK, to begin with, USPC hasn't been in Cincinnati since 2009. Someone please give this guy the memo.
Second, Brad Christian is right now warming up the engines on the assault helicopters that are heading to Toronto, loaded with lawyers armed to the teeth with fountain pens and cease-and-desist letters over how this guy thinks he can use their trademarked name and get away with it!!! His link even POINTS TO ELLUSIONIST.COM! He's either foolish or stupid if he thinks that will fly under the radar for long. Even worse, the link to his website leads to a page with only this phrase on it: "WEBSITE UNDER CONSTRUCTION"...
The art isn't terrible - but many of the design choices are. Gold on brown? It's gonna look like deli mustard on mud. The black and white art he shows below for the prints and T-shirts is WAY BETTER LOOKING than the mess he's presented here. Not that any of this matters since he'll likely be shut down in a few days, if not sooner...
-
The video for this is very entertaining, I enjoyed it.
Deck looks very nice in my opinion. I like the crisp images he's showing. The card back is fantastic, I really like it a lot. Would like to see a variation in color on the indices, but that's not a killer for me. I understand the gold on red artistic look he's going for. Usually I'm not big on watermarks on the face cards but, I like these. They server the deck very well, and I also enjoy how he's using the brighter color red to link some of the pips together. Really like the Medusa image he's created for the AoS too.
Metallic inks are listed as a stretch goal, either a hidden one or the $30,000 surprise. If it's not unlocked, I tend to agree with Don it may look very much like mustard on a dog. Tucks aren't as important to me as the deck, but I've been known to buy a few based upon the tuck alone haha. This tuck face is pretty bland. I believe USPCC may ask him to stick the frame around the Bicycle logo as well. He designed the tuck before finalizing the card back so it shows the one way back he had before. I think the tuck will see several changes soon.
I don't know his relationship with E, I'm not going to speculate either way myself. As far as the ancient Greek themed decks go, I like this one better than most. I don't like seeing T-shirts, those things are rarely worth the trouble on a KS campaign and usually end up leeching money away from the actual product. I also feel the add-on prices a bit steep, not really working the up sell very well at all. I still think this has every opportunity to succeed. I'm currently in for a brick, may go up or may go down depending on how the campaign evolves.
-
I've just confirmed with Chris Thisse of Ellusionist Customer Support that the project has no association with E. It would appear they contacted him, as he has now removed the name and the link from his project.
For that reason alone, I'd see no reason to support this deck. He tried a sleazy tactic and I'd wager that a lot of his early backers joined the project because of his faked affiliation. I do not reward fraudulent tactics and I do not trust the people who use them.
-
Detective Don! he even mentioned illusionist giving him the go ahead in the comments "The Ellusionists gave us the clearance for the deck but the designs are all independently executed by me."
-
I've just confirmed with Chris Thisse of Ellusionist Customer Support that the project has no association with E. It would appear they contacted him, as he has now removed the name and the link from his project.
For that reason alone, I'd see no reason to support this deck. He tried a sleazy tactic and I'd wager that a lot of his early backers joined the project because of his faked affiliation. I do not reward fraudulent tactics and I do not trust the people who use them.
I agree with you, it's a sleezy tactic. I can't for the life of me understand why someone would want to do that. There is nothing to be gained from it, let the deck speak for itself. ah well, much sadness. Hard to trust this now.
BTW, thanks for the information Don, appreciated.
Detective Don! he even mentioned illusionist giving him the go ahead in the comments "The Ellusionists gave us the clearance for the deck but the designs are all independently executed by me."
I read that too. Silliness, unfortunate silliness.
-
Seems like I missed out on something. I backed this project and remember seeing something about Ellusionist but I didn't really care to read (dumb move). Anyway, can someone fill me in on what's happening/happened with this Ellusionist issue?
-
I've just confirmed with Chris Thisse of Ellusionist Customer Support that the project has no association with E. It would appear they contacted him, as he has now removed the name and the link from his project.
For that reason alone, I'd see no reason to support this deck. He tried a sleazy tactic and I'd wager that a lot of his early backers joined the project because of his faked affiliation. I do not reward fraudulent tactics and I do not trust the people who use them.
I agree with you, it's a sleezy tactic. I can't for the life of me understand why someone would want to do that. There is nothing to be gained from it, let the deck speak for itself. ah well, much sadness. Hard to trust this now.
BTW, thanks for the information Don, appreciated.
Detective Don! he even mentioned illusionist giving him the go ahead in the comments "The Ellusionists gave us the clearance for the deck but the designs are all independently executed by me."
I read that too. Silliness, unfortunate silliness.
Seems like I missed out on something. I backed this project and remember seeing something about Ellusionist but I didn't really care to read (dumb move). Anyway, can someone fill me in on what's happening/happened with this Ellusionist issue?
Fes, Yashi, Alvin: this guy is lying through his teeth. Ellusionist has zero percent involvement in this project, and the guy continues to lie about it. It's as simple as that.
My advice: pull your pledge if you pledged. Don't pledge if you haven't yet. He's probably going to get shut down by Ellusionist, anyway.
-
Got it Don. Thanks. I'll withdraw my pledge soon.
-
Hey Everyone,
The creator here. I realize it was a dumb thing to write about a trademarked company. I apologize from the bottom of my heart. I'll be sincere with you all, I wrote "presented by" just to promote the deck a little. I know it was wrong, and I'm being honest with you. I've removed their affiliation with the project completely.
I've worked just WAY too hard on this project and have completed all the designs in the course of 4 months and it's just said how it ended up.
I know I'll be loosing tons of backers because of this, and you have the sole right to do so. Because this was a greasy mistake that will impact my credibility on the project, I'll be doing everything to fix this silly mistake (a really big one) so that no third party is confused or falsely conversed.
Scott,
-
Hey Everyone,
The creator here. I realize it was a dumb thing to write about a trademarked company. I apologize from the bottom of my heart. I'll be sincere with you all, I wrote "presented by" just to promote the deck a little. I know it was wrong, and I'm being honest with you. I've removed their affiliation with the project completely.
I've worked just WAY too hard on this project and have completed all the designs in the course of 4 months and it's just said how it ended up.
I know I'll be loosing tons of backers because of this, and you have the sole right to do so. Because this was a greasy mistake that will impact my credibility on the project, I'll be doing everything to fix this silly mistake (a really big one) so that no third party is confused or falsely conversed.
Scott,
Welcome to the Discourse, Scott.
I'm glad that you realized the error you made - but being sincere about the fact that you were trying to promote the deck in a less-than-scrupulous manner is like a kid getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar and saying he did it because he wanted a cookie or a thief getting caught taking my wallet who says he wanted the money. Sure, you're being honest, but the honest truth is that you tried to deceive your backers. If you didn't get caught, if no one said anything about it, would you still be doing it now? We don't need to know the answer since we'd probably have a hard time believing you regardless - but you do.
Trust is the most valuable currency a Kickstarter project creator has - you rolled the dice and blew yours at the craps table. If there's anyone you owe an apology to, it's the people at Ellusionist, for trying to steal their hard-earned cachet that's been built up into their name over time. Few companies appreciate it when someone steals their intellectual property for their own gain - it's the stuff corporate lawsuits are made of. Pray that they don't want to make an example of you.
Some advice: close your project now. Retool it a little. I honestly believed that the black-and-white images from the framed print and the t-shirt were far better looking than the gold on red-brown you presented. Factor in that metallic gold can actually appear dark, and I don't think that color combination is doing you any favors. Perhaps toss in dashes of faded color, like a frieze that was painted two thousand or so years ago and has faded with time and weather.
People do still buy blindly if a deck has the "Bicycle" brand name on it, but in smaller and smaller numbers. Forget "Bicycle" and consider a less-expensive, high-grade printer like Expert Playing Card Company or Legends Playing Card Company. You can shave the costs, allowing you to present the deck at a better, more-attractive price point.
Consider as well the idea of possibly selling your deck design to another company. CollectablePlayingCards.com and Gambler's Warehouse seek out a lot of artists to do work for them creating company-exclusive decks. They do the heavy lifting getting the deck made and sold while you collect a nice check and start on another design. You can also try working with a partner like Jackson Robinson - he will promote and sell other artists decks in a curated manner, if he feels the deck is just that good. Just partner up - if you can - with someone who has experience and can lend credibility to your project.
If you do restart things on your own - BE HONEST FROM THE FIRST WORD TO THE LAST. The moment people feel you can't be trusted is the same moment that you hear a flushing sound in the distance as all your pledges go down the toilet.
ADDENDUM: I see you've partnered with Max Playing Cards - not a bad choice at all. He can help fix your credibility but don't expect instant, immediate absolution from everyone. Some will need more time, some will never trust you again. It's going to be a struggle to overcome that.
I realized just now why I liked the black-and-white images better - they were "positive" images while your gold linework is all "negative" images. See what they look like as positive images and you might find you like it better - and perhaps you're backers will as well.
-
Scott,
When I first looked at the deck on Kickstarter I too noticed the "Ellusionists" association. You now have replaced it with "Max Playing cards" is this true?
I looked over your designs and I really think that while it is not for me there is some great artwork in there and your deck could succeed on it's own merits. I love the custom pips, the red and gold, (or is it brown?) and the columns in the background are great.
Kickstarter is a place where backers need to trust the creators. Your 'false advertising' about who is affiliated with the deck right from the start was unjustified and unfortunate. I am not sure now what is fact and what is fiction on your project page.
Anyway Good Luck!
-
Hello all,
although my position tends to be always discreet and never aerate issues without talking to the responsible, I need to intervene in this matter before it goes beyond.
I have discovered reading this thread and thanks to Rose that Max Playing Cards was mentioned in the project. I was a bit confused as I have not finished yet the articles, but my surprise was much bigger when I saw MPC was mentioned as a kind of partner of the project.
Max Playing Cards or myself have nothing to do with this project beyond the usual articles I like to write about other decks to promote other's works. I was contacted by Scott for some advisement about the project and I told I would be pleased to talk about the deck in an article, but I never authorized to be featured like a "partner" (that is the impression I have reading that).
I have already written Scott about this and asked him to take out MPC name. I will be pleased to write about the deck. I sincerely like the design and the idea, but I don't like the way this thing has be handled.
I sincerely want to think this has been a misunderstanding.but I don't feel very comfortable with this situation. That's why I needed to state this clearly.
Best wishes to all.
-
See, the problem is that even when it appears that you've come clean, it looks like you actually haven't, Scott. Not only because of Max's post above mine here, but also this: http://www.unitedcardists.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5908&p=67990
-
It just seems that this is getting worst and worst. You just don't realise how closely contacted this market is and you are just destroying yourself. Now, i am even beginning to suspect if the design is even yours at all. I am pulling out my pledge simply because too much lies and deceit is involved around this project, regardless of how much potential this deck may have. You claim to put in so much hard work, yet you should know better than to try to cover up all your lies.
-
Hey Everyone,
The creator here. I realize it was a dumb thing to write about a trademarked company. I apologize from the bottom of my heart. I'll be sincere with you all, I wrote "presented by" just to promote the deck a little. I know it was wrong, and I'm being honest with you. I've removed their affiliation with the project completely.
I've worked just WAY too hard on this project and have completed all the designs in the course of 4 months and it's just said how it ended up.
I know I'll be loosing tons of backers because of this, and you have the sole right to do so. Because this was a greasy mistake that will impact my credibility on the project, I'll be doing everything to fix this silly mistake (a really big one) so that no third party is confused or falsely conversed.
Scott,
Welcome to the Discourse, Scott.
I'm glad that you realized the error you made - but being sincere about the fact that you were trying to promote the deck in a less-than-scrupulous manner is like a kid getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar and saying he did it because he wanted a cookie or a thief getting caught taking my wallet who says he wanted the money. Sure, you're being honest, but the honest truth is that you tried to deceive your backers. If you didn't get caught, if no one said anything about it, would you still be doing it now? We don't need to know the answer since we'd probably have a hard time believing you regardless - but you do.
Trust is the most valuable currency a Kickstarter project creator has - you rolled the dice and blew yours at the craps table. If there's anyone you owe an apology to, it's the people at Ellusionist, for trying to steal their hard-earned cachet that's been built up into their name over time. Few companies appreciate it when someone steals their intellectual property for their own gain - it's the stuff corporate lawsuits are made of. Pray that they don't want to make an example of you.
Some advice: close your project now. Retool it a little. I honestly believed that the black-and-white images from the framed print and the t-shirt were far better looking than the gold on red-brown you presented. Factor in that metallic gold can actually appear dark, and I don't think that color combination is doing you any favors. Perhaps toss in dashes of faded color, like a frieze that was painted two thousand or so years ago and has faded with time and weather.
People do still buy blindly if a deck has the "Bicycle" brand name on it, but in smaller and smaller numbers. Forget "Bicycle" and consider a less-expensive, high-grade printer like Expert Playing Card Company or Legends Playing Card Company. You can shave the costs, allowing you to present the deck at a better, more-attractive price point.
Consider as well the idea of possibly selling your deck design to another company. CollectablePlayingCards.com and Gambler's Warehouse seek out a lot of artists to do work for them creating company-exclusive decks. They do the heavy lifting getting the deck made and sold while you collect a nice check and start on another design. You can also try working with a partner like Jackson Robinson - he will promote and sell other artists decks in a curated manner, if he feels the deck is just that good. Just partner up - if you can - with someone who has experience and can lend credibility to your project.
If you do restart things on your own - BE HONEST FROM THE FIRST WORD TO THE LAST. The moment people feel you can't be trusted is the same moment that you hear a flushing sound in the distance as all your pledges go down the toilet.
ADDENDUM: I see you've partnered with Max Playing Cards - not a bad choice at all. He can help fix your credibility but don't expect instant, immediate absolution from everyone. Some will need more time, some will never trust you again. It's going to be a struggle to overcome that.
I realized just now why I liked the black-and-white images better - they were "positive" images while your gold linework is all "negative" images. See what they look like as positive images and you might find you like it better - and perhaps you're backers will as well.
Hey Don,
Thanks for the wonderful reply. You're right we should seriously think about retooling the project. Thanks for giving me the advice. As for MCP, please ignore it. We asked him if it was okay to mention him but I think we misunderstood. Anyways were going to take Dons advise and close this project soon. Thanks for all your support, Thanks.
-
Hey Don,
Thanks for the wonderful reply. You're right we should seriously think about retooling the project. Thanks for giving me the advice. As for MCP, please ignore it. We asked him if it was okay to mention him but I think we misunderstood. Anyways were going to take Dons advise and close this project soon. Thanks for all your support, Thanks.
Well, having in mind I write about decks, asking if you can mention me makes me assume you would say I wrote about you, and not I am your partner.
I sincerely think (and want to think) this is a misunderstanding. I am more than happy of talking about your deck and also trying to give you tips about the way you can improve the project. As I told you in my personal email, I believe your project has a lot of potential and I am sure you can do it without "partnering" with anyone. Nevertheless, I would have appreciate to receive your answer to my personal email about this thing before.
Good luck!
-
Hey Don,
Thanks for the wonderful reply. You're right we should seriously think about retooling the project. Thanks for giving me the advice. As for MCP, please ignore it. We asked him if it was okay to mention him but I think we misunderstood. Anyways were going to take Dons advise and close this project soon. Thanks for all your support, Thanks.
...I sincerely think (and want to think) this is a misunderstanding...
@Max, it's all your endless good nature. Unfortunately, you are wrong and this isn't an assumption :(
@levereno didn't even say "sorry" to you, actually.
-
Scott have just now contacted me saying this was a confusion... That's all
-
It's more than mere "confusion" - the story he told over at United Cardists about using the Ellusionist name and the story he told in this topic are worlds apart from each other. Over there, he claims some non-existent guy on their FB page gave him permission to affiliate his deck with Ellusionist, while here, he said that he, in essence, got caught with his hand in the cookie jar and was using the company name to promote his deck when he knew he shouldn't have done so.
For his sake, I hope he folds this project - whatever help the card community might have given him in pledges and word of mouth is pretty much down to nil or less. Who knows - if the lawyers get involved, this could become the first project that actually OWES money by the time it hits the deadline! (Actually, Bicycle Army Men might have that distinction, though it didn't go in the red until after it closed!)
As I see this, the project went from toxic to radioactive. Do not touch, not even with full hazmat gear and a forty-foot pole. If I squint, I think I can see the glow from here...
-
Well, that escalated quickly.
It appears that he thought that no one would be wise enough to actually follow up on his claims. Boy, was he wrong! Way to watch for these things and protect those who may not know better, folks! Kudos for those sharp eyes!
-
Just in case, we're not working with him either.
So let us know if our name magically appears anywhere in association with that project.
-
Just in case, we're not working with him either.
So let us know if our name magically appears anywhere in association with that project.
heh, this got a chuckle. Artwork is just a small part of doing these projects, as we can clearly see...
-
First of all, I removed everything about the ellusionists. There is no ellusionist anymore. None, nada. The word ellusionist was removed on the first day. It's been 4 days now. There shouldn't be no problem now. so what's the problem now? I don't get why everyone is all so "hyped". The word ellusionist is gone, I appologized. it's been 4 days. No more ellusionist. But we still see more and more replies on the subject is I don't get.
I made a mistake, I appologized, case closed. It's been 4 days. You haven't seen me posting about ellusionist again have you? So what's the problem now? More and more gossip on this subject is just getting annoying. Leave this project be and move on.
If you don't want to pledge, that's fine, don't pledge. There is no need for unnecessary comments on the project.
-
First of all, I removed everything about the ellusionists. There is no ellusionist anymore. None, nada. The word ellusionist was removed on the first day. It's been 4 days now. There shouldn't be no problem now. so what's the problem now? I don't get why everyone is all so "hyped". The word ellusionist is gone, I appologized. it's been 4 days. No more ellusionist. But we still see more and more replies on the subject is I don't get.
I made a mistake, I appologized, case closed. It's been 4 days. You haven't seen me posting about ellusionist again have you? So what's the problem now? More and more gossip on this subject is just getting annoying. Leave this project be and move on.
If you don't want to pledge, that's fine, don't pledge. There is no need for unnecessary comments on the project.
It doesn't matter that you apologized, it matters that you were wrong in a way that disrespected the community in the first place. You took half measures to seek approval to promote your deck in a decietful way that disrespected the community and attempted to manipulate your backers. Not only with Ellusionist but also, it seems, with Max Playing Cards. Furthermore you misrepresented the situation in two different ways through two different venues (here and the UC forum) which felt like a further con after the fact. Regardless of whether your intentions were honest or not doesn't matter, you are culpable for how it is percieved.
You made a big wave in a small pond, it isn't going to just die down because you appologized.
edited for clarity.
-
First of all, I removed everything about the ellusionists. There is no ellusionist anymore. None, nada. The word ellusionist was removed on the first day. It's been 4 days now. There shouldn't be no problem now. so what's the problem now? I don't get why everyone is all so "hyped". The word ellusionist is gone, I appologized. it's been 4 days. No more ellusionist. But we still see more and more replies on the subject is I don't get.
I made a mistake, I appologized, case closed. It's been 4 days. You haven't seen me posting about ellusionist again have you? So what's the problem now? More and more gossip on this subject is just getting annoying. Leave this project be and move on.
If you don't want to pledge, that's fine, don't pledge. There is no need for unnecessary comments on the project.
It doesn't matter that you apologized, it matters that you were wrong in a way that disrespected the community in the first place. You took half measures to seek approval to promote your deck in a decietful way that disrespected the community and attempted to manipulate your backers. Not only with Ellusionist but also, it seems, with Max Playing Cards. Furthermore you misrepresented the situation in two different ways through two different venues (here and the UC forum) which felt like a further con after the fact. Regardless of whether your intentions were honest or not doesn't matter, you are culpable for how it is percieved.
You made a big wave in a small pond, it isn't going to just die down because you apologized.
edited for clarity.
-
Just in case, we're not working with him either.
So let us know if our name magically appears anywhere in association with that project.
I have to admit that was pretty funny. I also liked your comment with the Breaking Bad guy who came on the scene with an obvious copyright violation.
@levereno - You have lost all credibility. Good-Bye
-
First of all, I removed everything about the ellusionists. There is no ellusionist anymore. None, nada. The word ellusionist was removed on the first day. It's been 4 days now. There shouldn't be no problem now. so what's the problem now? I don't get why everyone is all so "hyped". The word ellusionist is gone, I appologized. it's been 4 days. No more ellusionist. But we still see more and more replies on the subject is I don't get.
I made a mistake, I appologized, case closed. It's been 4 days. You haven't seen me posting about ellusionist again have you? So what's the problem now? More and more gossip on this subject is just getting annoying. Leave this project be and move on.
If you don't want to pledge, that's fine, don't pledge. There is no need for unnecessary comments on the project.
There's making a mistake, then there's repeating the EXACT SAME MISTAKE, indicating that you learned nothing from the experience and are willing and able to attempt deception in order to sell decks. There are enough scams abound on Kickstarter without you adding to the heap, thankyouverymuch. That's the LAST kind of project creator KS needs, my friend. Giving two entirely different explanations on two different forums (where many of the members frequent BOTH forums) was just the icing on the crap cake. So, you baked it - you eat it! We sure as hell won't!
In short, a project creator who so thoroughly loses the trust of his core demographic is the creator of a project that failed before it began. We might have considered forgiveness on the first blunder, but when you made the second in the exact same way as the first, it became open season.
-
First of all, I removed everything about the ellusionists. There is no ellusionist anymore. None, nada. The word ellusionist was removed on the first day. It's been 4 days now. There shouldn't be no problem now. so what's the problem now? I don't get why everyone is all so "hyped". The word ellusionist is gone, I appologized. it's been 4 days. No more ellusionist. But we still see more and more replies on the subject is I don't get.
I made a mistake, I appologized, case closed. It's been 4 days. You haven't seen me posting about ellusionist again have you? So what's the problem now? More and more gossip on this subject is just getting annoying. Leave this project be and move on.
If you don't want to pledge, that's fine, don't pledge. There is no need for unnecessary comments on the project.
Do you think your attitude here would save you from the hole you created? You saying "If you don't want to pledge, that's fine, don't pledge" shows you don't care about your backers in any way. All you care is the money.
You know why I chose to do free shipping fulfilled from Hong Kong for my project? It is so that everyone has a fair price internationally. Even if I am losing money on some tiers.
"There is no need for unnecessary comments on the project"
I think all comments here are necessary to educate potential backers of the creators background. This forum isn't just a place where you post your project to "advertise". I'm surprised you did not put the Discourse as a partner too.
This is a place for people to comment on projects good or bad to give more information on potential backers.
-
Just in case, we're not working with him either.
So let us know if our name magically appears anywhere in association with that project.
heh, this got a chuckle. Artwork is just a small part of doing these projects, as we can clearly see...
I thought it would be "Just in case, we're not working with him either." :)