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Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)

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Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2014, 08:11:01 AM »
 

GBAllison

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First off: I am a HUGE fan of the concept, and the artwork. I have family in derby (either that, or I am derby family :-) and I wish this deck would fund.  Sadly, the first-time-into-playing-cards really shows.  Don gave you a bunch of expert advice.  Lots.  Mine is a shorter list.
  • Can't do full bleed. Just can't.
  • PLEEZE move the indices closer to the edge so that I can hold them, fan them, and use them as playing cards.
  • Ideally, you could make those indices smaller, but if you're sold on JUMBO index, at least move them closer to the edge
  • Isn't there some theme in these illustrations that would make it obvious when you play a king that it's a king, and that the queens have a common theme, and the jacks are identifiable? Could they maybe be on the same team?  Something.
  • Having two decks with contrasting backs is a HUGE benefit.  To me that's much more important than two-way backs.  But in this case, a bad-ass deck and a sweetheart deck, both two way, tells the story and sells the mdse.
  • Bicycle brand is a big winner as well.
  • Are any of her illustrations one-eyed? Or could be read as suicidal? You might want to lay them out as the correct one-eyed cards, and the suicide king.
  • Love the pip layout!
  • Don't love the index font.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 08:14:32 AM by GBAllison »
 

Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2014, 01:53:04 PM »
 

LeacockDesign

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It's a fair assessment to say that we've made a few rookie mistakes. Unfortunately, the unfinished status of the deck is more or less impossible to remedy before the Kickstarter ends. When we started our research on this (like 3 years ago?) the landscape of custom decks looked quite different, and it seemed reasonable to offer a partially-finished deck on Kickstarter and get the funding to complete it and print it. Now it seems like the standard practice is to complete the design first, and use KS only for the printing costs. We'll definitely be keeping that in mind for future projects.
 

Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2014, 02:05:17 PM »
 

LeacockDesign

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Thanks for your post GBAllison!

• Full bleed has been nixed, at the recommendation of just about every serious poker player or cardist who has seen the design.
• I'm actually moving the indices TODAY:) I have a personal preference for wide borders in my graphic design work, and I now realize that that was a silly thing to bring with me into a project like this. I may also shrink them a bit.
• Our Aces will be identifiable, and of course Jokers, but the kings/queens/jacks don't have an identifying trait at the moment.
• Now that we're looking at the very real possibility of failing to meet our goal by the end of the Kickstarter, we're considering how we'll re-launch the deck if that's the case. A matched pair of decks will be a part of that discussion.
• I'll talk to Shannon about one-eyed & suicide cards. That's actually something that hadn't occurred to me, but did occur to one of our team members.
• Glad you dig the pips! I seriously had no idea what I was doing there, but I like the result.
• I 75% like the index font. I feel like it's pointier in the numbers than the letters, and I chose it for the letters. I may be able to adjust the pointiness of the numbers to make it more uniform.
 

Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2014, 07:52:10 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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It's a fair assessment to say that we've made a few rookie mistakes. Unfortunately, the unfinished status of the deck is more or less impossible to remedy before the Kickstarter ends. When we started our research on this (like 3 years ago?) the landscape of custom decks looked quite different, and it seemed reasonable to offer a partially-finished deck on Kickstarter and get the funding to complete it and print it. Now it seems like the standard practice is to complete the design first, and use KS only for the printing costs. We'll definitely be keeping that in mind for future projects.

Not everyone goes into it with a fully-finished project - some like going in partially done.  But a fully done deck is easier to advertise since you can show off everything, and the artists who create-as-they-go are in most cases professional designers who know how to work on a timetable and will schedule the work to be completed as the project reaches its end.

Thanks for your post GBAllison!

• Full bleed has been nixed, at the recommendation of just about every serious poker player or cardist who has seen the design.
• I'm actually moving the indices TODAY:) I have a personal preference for wide borders in my graphic design work, and I now realize that that was a silly thing to bring with me into a project like this. I may also shrink them a bit.
• Our Aces will be identifiable, and of course Jokers, but the kings/queens/jacks don't have an identifying trait at the moment.
• Now that we're looking at the very real possibility of failing to meet our goal by the end of the Kickstarter, we're considering how we'll re-launch the deck if that's the case. A matched pair of decks will be a part of that discussion.
• I'll talk to Shannon about one-eyed & suicide cards. That's actually something that hadn't occurred to me, but did occur to one of our team members.
• Glad you dig the pips! I seriously had no idea what I was doing there, but I like the result.
• I 75% like the index font. I feel like it's pointier in the numbers than the letters, and I chose it for the letters. I may be able to adjust the pointiness of the numbers to make it more uniform.


* Nixing full bleed for a project like this is good.
* Indices being moved, yay.  Border - I feel it's more of an artistic choice, but I will say that it helps show off your art more if you make them thinner.  It's become a popular trend with custom playing card decks.
* Adjusting the font sounds good.  In most standard decks with a standard-sized index, the pip is half the height of the value and both are of uniform width on all the cards.  It's why "A" and "K" in a deck have nice serifs while "10" is really a line and a racetrack oval!
* Court cards with identifying traits: again, it's a choice.  Your deck has a specific theme to it.  This also goes for the "traditional" configurations of the court cards.  Not every deck must have a suicide king, two one-eyed jacks, a bedpost queen, etc.  Naturally, the beer-and-pretzels poker players like them, but in the end it's an artistic decision.  Not every deck follows that convention.

Interesting story for you: I have a few tricks that require the spectator to have some knowledge of poker, specifically the hands and their ranks.  In my personal experience, fewer than one in twenty people and one in ten adults know anything about poker, so in the end I don't perform those tricks as often as I'd like.  The moral of the story is that you need not worry too hard about the standard conventions for court cards, especially for a specialized custom deck such as yours.
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Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2014, 07:47:20 AM »
 

GBAllison

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P.S. Agree with Don completely that the court conventions (one-eyed, etc) and court themes are anything but mandatory.  But what's supremely frustrating to me is when the collection *does* include one-eyed characters, and then because the deck designer isn't thinking (or doesn't know), decides to put the one-eyed character in the wrong place.  If you have a suicide king candidate, make it the king of hearts not the queen of spades.

Similarly, if the illustrations *can* be grouped into themes that would make it easier to tell apart the kings from queens, then they should do that, instead of using Random as the design approach.

I will say that I've often thought about this telling-apart-the-court-values issue with pure-art card decks. It seems to me that it would be pretty easy to modify the *border* treatment, around the art, so that all the kings have one type of border, all the queens have a different border, etc.

Of course if the kings' border was full bleed (oops, full circle :-)
« Last Edit: June 24, 2014, 07:48:33 AM by GBAllison »
 

Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2014, 08:10:26 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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The simplest way to manage this courts thing is by the use of the crowns.  Jacks have one style of crown in a standard deck, as do Queens and Kings.  They can be wearing the crowns, it can be on a jersey, it can be incorporated into a trophy the derby girl is holding in her arms, etc.
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Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2014, 06:43:29 PM »
 

LeacockDesign

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After some futzing, here's a new version of the indices/borders. I'm in a bit of a corner with the courts (pun unintended, I swear), as I have to leave room for a white border as well as some space between the border of the art and the indices. The result is that the indices are a little farther from the edge than I'd prefer.

Critiques please!
 

Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2014, 10:42:37 PM »
 

shadowkat

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Looking good!  :D
 

Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2014, 11:55:24 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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After some futzing, here's a new version of the indices/borders. I'm in a bit of a corner with the courts (pun unintended, I swear), as I have to leave room for a white border as well as some space between the border of the art and the indices. The result is that the indices are a little farther from the edge than I'd prefer.

Critiques please!

The present placing looks fine to me, I think.  I would love to see you make the spot cards into art cards as well, though I know that adds an order of magnitude to the amount of work that needs to be completed.  But they would be SO COOL!
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
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Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #34 on: July 02, 2014, 02:32:12 AM »
 

shadowkat

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After some futzing, here's a new version of the indices/borders. I'm in a bit of a corner with the courts (pun unintended, I swear), as I have to leave room for a white border as well as some space between the border of the art and the indices. The result is that the indices are a little farther from the edge than I'd prefer.

Critiques please!

The present placing looks fine to me, I think.  I would love to see you make the spot cards into art cards as well, though I know that adds an order of magnitude to the amount of work that needs to be completed.  But they would be SO COOL!

I second the notion of a complete art deck.  I love the one Bicycle had for sale on the shop Bicycle site: The Brosmind Deck.  It wouldn't be practical for playing poker though.  Good luck for the next 36 hours!  It is very close to funding.