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Ask the Experts at 52 Plus Joker

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Re: Ask the Experts at 52 Plus Joker
« Reply #250 on: May 12, 2019, 03:39:41 PM »
 

Russ

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 They are Rider Back, the cellophane is sealed, it says "Gold Edges" on the bottom only, it is a blue deck. The only deck I've seen like it recently sold on Ebay, for $157.00. That is what piqued my interest in this deck. I have been collecting older decks with tax stamps for a couple of years now, and I'm still learning.
 

Re: Ask the Experts at 52 Plus Joker
« Reply #251 on: May 14, 2019, 05:36:04 PM »
 

Russ

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Thank you skinny for the help. Can you or anyone give me information on the gold edged deck pictured above, how old Is it, the rarity of it, and an idea of the value. Any help would be appreciated.
 

Re: Ask the Experts at 52 Plus Joker
« Reply #252 on: May 18, 2019, 06:07:13 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I think I can chime in on this one...

The deck's ad card shows a ZIP code on it.  ZIP codes didn't exist prior to 1963.  It's not the oldest of decks out there, but it's hardly young - definitely vintage.  I'd guess probably somewhere in the late '60s or early '70s.

I notice in your photos that the deck seal appears at least partially missing - is there any of it intact on the tuck box?  That can be a clue sometimes.  For example, if it's a tax stamp, we can definitely narrow down your deck's origin - Federal taxes on playing cards were discontinued on June 22, 1965.  If the seal is a self-adhesive sticker instead of a moisture-activated stamp, that's a big clue - then the deck is likely from the 1980s or later.

The easiest way to know for certain what year would be for you to open the cellophane - assuming you were willing to, of course.  Then you could read the letter code on the Ace of Spades and we could reasonably definitively state what year it was made.  But that's entirely up to you - some collectors would be loathe to do it, while others would be eager to see what they look like.
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Re: Ask the Experts at 52 Plus Joker
« Reply #253 on: June 18, 2019, 10:31:31 PM »
 

Daniel Wilson

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Not really sure where to put this, but I have a couple of nomenclature questions.

A friend of mine today asked me if there was a name for a deck (similar to the ones on the “Card Sharks” reboot on ABC) in which the spades and clubs are blue in color instead of black.  I couldn’t answer him, so I came here.

Similarly, is there a name for a deck in which the face cards have the same art across ranks, or in which they are recolored versions of the same base art?  I submit as an example the Saks Fifth Avenue Art Deco-era cards.
 

Re: Ask the Experts at 52 Plus Joker
« Reply #254 on: June 19, 2019, 06:24:06 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Not really sure where to put this, but I have a couple of nomenclature questions.

A friend of mine today asked me if there was a name for a deck (similar to the ones on the “Card Sharks” reboot on ABC) in which the spades and clubs are blue in color instead of black.  I couldn’t answer him, so I came here.

Similarly, is there a name for a deck in which the face cards have the same art across ranks, or in which they are recolored versions of the same base art?  I submit as an example the Saks Fifth Avenue Art Deco-era cards.

To my knowledge, there is no unique name for a two-color, four-suited deck where the suit colors aren't the traditional red and black.  The closest thing there is would be a "no-revoke" deck, but that's not the same thing - it's a deck where each suit has a unique color, thus preventing someone from mis-bidding in a game such as bridge by confusing the two same-colored suits for each other.  It's also found in some decks with a "low-vision" design, often with super-large indices that may take up an entire card's face - it's for people with poor eyesight who are having a tougher time telling suits apart.

Now, as far as a deck whereby the court ranks from suit to suit are nearly identical, with only color changes or minor art tweaks separating them but they're still made from the same base design, the only term I've ever heard for that is "lazy!"  Some might refer to a deck in general as being "minimally customized," in that it's not the basic, standard faces, but it's not terribly creative, either, using art that gets "recycled" between the suits or being only minimally different from the completely standard faces used by the same printer.  There may even be a re-use of a deck's back design, perhaps with just a recoloring.  A pretty good example of this would be many of the colored variants of the Bicycle Rider Back that have come out over the years, particularly those made for magic companies like Magic Makers - in such cases, it's only the colors that are different - the art, both faces and backs, is 100% exactly as it appears on standard decks, save for printing gaff cards instead of ad cards.

This kind of lack of originality in court card art is, to me, usually done just for the sake of saving time or cost, and the result is never as attractive as a deck whereby the artist took the effort to make each court card's art unique.  At one time, not that long ago, such decks would have been considered OK, but in a market where there's so much new, original work being created and produced, you really can't get away with it as easily without being thought of as lazy.
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Re: Ask the Experts at 52 Plus Joker
« Reply #255 on: July 17, 2019, 02:55:33 PM »
 

zigbrew

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I am brand spanking new to this forum, but I didn't know where else to go. I'm looking for 1 or 2 decks of this novelty deck I remember from the 70's that was called "Royal Flash" and has drug related suits (pot leaves for spades, peyote buttons for hearts, etc) Cannot find them anywhere. Don't know if there's any way to ever find them! Here's a link to a graphic of the face cards:    http://www.dxpo-playingcards.com/xpo/dopey/pages/dopey01.htm       I'd pay just about anything for a deck (well, within reason)
 

Re: Ask the Experts at 52 Plus Joker
« Reply #256 on: July 18, 2019, 08:21:21 PM »
 

andrew daugherty

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I have a new but opened deck available. newalbany4 at hotmail.

Chris Turner
aka Andrew Daugherty

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Re: Ask the Experts at 52 Plus Joker
« Reply #257 on: August 06, 2019, 10:53:24 AM »
 

Chuqii

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Quick question:  Anybody know what year USPC decided to change and shrink the court cards? (see pic).

 I know it was post-1950, but I was hoping someone would know a more exact date.  And bonus points is someone knows why they did it, cause I really like the old ones more.
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Re: Ask the Experts at 52 Plus Joker
« Reply #258 on: August 10, 2019, 10:09:57 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Quick question:  Anybody know what year USPC decided to change and shrink the court cards? (see pic).

 I know it was post-1950, but I was hoping someone would know a more exact date.  And bonus points is someone knows why they did it, cause I really like the old ones more.

I can offer guesses as to why.  Make more room for the indices.  Make more room for the borders, allowing for a greater margin of error on the registration of faces to backs and preventing face elements from getting cut off when cards are cut from the deck sheet.  But they are just that - guesses.

I'd wager the change occurred sometime around WW2.  I'm just thinking of deck designs I've seen from that era and just before that era.  But that, too, is a guess.
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Re: Ask the Experts at 52 Plus Joker
« Reply #259 on: August 10, 2019, 09:27:31 PM »
 

Chuqii

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Well, I know it was after the changed the tuck in 1950, because I have some post 1950 changed tucks with the non shrinks dink courts.
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Re: Ask the Experts at 52 Plus Joker
« Reply #260 on: August 11, 2019, 04:23:04 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Well, I know it was after the changed the tuck in 1950, because I have some post 1950 changed tucks with the non shrinks dink courts.

Ah - you say they changed the tucks in 1950...  So it would stand to reason that perhaps there were some modifications made not just to the tucks at that time, but also to the faces.  What you're saying makes some sense.  I'm guessing they introduced some new printing processes/machinery, something which allowed them to print faster but at the same time reduced registration accuracy, and to compensate for this, they shrank the courts (and probably the pips as well) to get them a bit further from the card's edge when cut.

But bear in mind this is all just hypothetical conjecture and I'd wager that unless you found someone who was alive and working for USPC back then to tell you the real scoop, there's likely no records left at the company itself to indicate what the story is - or if the records are there, they're buried in some unindexed archive somewhere and are unlikely to be found.  Between the passage of time and the changes of ownership, a lot of the company's history was pushed to the wayside in favor of focusing on the present and making the company as profitable as possible.
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Re: Ask the Experts at 52 Plus Joker
« Reply #261 on: August 11, 2019, 11:40:55 AM »
 

Lainie58

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Hi. I have never used a forum before so hope i am in the right area for my questions.  I have a deck of playing cards that are, I believe from the 1940's.  They were my grandparents, passed on to my mom and now passed on to me.  I have researched them, but haven't found a lot of information on this specific deck.  I have attached photos.  Thanks in advance for any information you might have.

Lainie58
 

Re: Ask the Experts at 52 Plus Joker
« Reply #262 on: August 11, 2019, 10:34:56 PM »
 

Chuqii

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From between 1950 and 1964. Bee decks did not say “Bee Cambric Finish” on the bottom of the deck until c1950, and tax stamps ended around 1964.
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Re: Ask the Experts at 52 Plus Joker
« Reply #263 on: August 12, 2019, 02:36:04 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Hi. I have never used a forum before so hope i am in the right area for my questions.  I have a deck of playing cards that are, I believe from the 1940's.  They were my grandparents, passed on to my mom and now passed on to me.  I have researched them, but haven't found a lot of information on this specific deck.  I have attached photos.  Thanks in advance for any information you might have.

Lainie58

I concur with Chuqii.  They appear to be in excellent condition - they're still sealed, though the clear cellophane looks like it's starting to come off after all these years.  Not bad for a deck that's well over 50 years old.  They'd have some value to collectors for their age and condition, but they're an extremely common deck from that period, so they're not worth a huge amount - my guess would be double-digits rather than triple-digits or more.

I kind of like how they've become a heirloom, already held by three different generations of your family.  In your shoes, I'd simply hang on to them and continue to pass them on!
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Re: Ask the Experts at 52 Plus Joker
« Reply #264 on: August 12, 2019, 06:19:21 PM »
 

Dufus

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I found this deck and picked it up super cheap because I thought I knew what it was but I don't.  I can't seem to figure out what this deck is and I'm not sure why, so I'm asking for help. 
 

Re: Ask the Experts at 52 Plus Joker
« Reply #265 on: August 13, 2019, 06:00:58 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I found this deck and picked it up super cheap because I thought I knew what it was but I don't.  I can't seem to figure out what this deck is and I'm not sure why, so I'm asking for help.

There's not a lot I know about it - but I can tell you this.

It was a USPC-made deck.  There's a production code on the Ace of Spades.

That particular code's letter, P, was in use for the years 1911, 1931, 1951, 1971 and 1991.  It was skipped in 2011, when N was used instead.

Judging from the artwork and size of the indices, my guess would be that this can't be older than 1951.  The fact that the code appears to have been separately stamped into the surface of the card would make me tend to believe that it's not newer than 1951, either.  Newer decks had the code printed in much the same manner as the rest of the card's design elements, as if from the same printing plates, while older decks had them stamped in, as if on another machine used just for that purpose.  I can't tell you the exact year that changed, but I do remember as a kid that they weren't common and I was born in 1967.

These are just educated guesses.  Other experts might have more authoritative information on this deck for you.  On the plus side, if you own a Hochman's Encyclopedia, there's a chance you might find it there.  I tried Jim Knapp's page on non-Bicycle USPC decks but it didn't turn up any hits.  It does remind me a little of some of the Russell decks in that many of them used more generic-looking Aces of Spades, making the deck identifiable only through their boxes and their jokers.
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Re: Ask the Experts at 52 Plus Joker
« Reply #266 on: August 13, 2019, 05:20:44 PM »
 

Dufus

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I found this deck and picked it up super cheap because I thought I knew what it was but I don't.  I can't seem to figure out what this deck is and I'm not sure why, so I'm asking for help.

There's not a lot I know about it - but I can tell you this.

It was a USPC-made deck.  There's a production code on the Ace of Spades.

That particular code's letter, P, was in use for the years 1911, 1931, 1951, 1971 and 1991.  It was skipped in 2011, when N was used instead.

Judging from the artwork and size of the indices, my guess would be that this can't be older than 1951.  The fact that the code appears to have been separately stamped into the surface of the card would make me tend to believe that it's not newer than 1951, either.  Newer decks had the code printed in much the same manner as the rest of the card's design elements, as if from the same printing plates, while older decks had them stamped in, as if on another machine used just for that purpose.  I can't tell you the exact year that changed, but I do remember as a kid that they weren't common and I was born in 1967.

These are just educated guesses.  Other experts might have more authoritative information on this deck for you.  On the plus side, if you own a Hochman's Encyclopedia, there's a chance you might find it there.  I tried Jim Knapp's page on non-Bicycle USPC decks but it didn't turn up any hits.  It does remind me a little of some of the Russell decks in that many of them used more generic-looking Aces of Spades, making the deck identifiable only through their boxes and their jokers.


I have had no luck finding the Ace in Hochmans.  I have found the Joker in Hochmans pictured under P6 (NYCC).  If you're sure it can't be older than 1951, then that would explain why it's not in Hochmans.  My inclination was that it was a 1931, but I'm no expert.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 05:40:29 PM by Dufus »
 

Re: Ask the Experts at 52 Plus Joker
« Reply #267 on: August 14, 2019, 01:38:01 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I have had no luck finding the Ace in Hochmans.  I have found the Joker in Hochmans pictured under P6 (NYCC).  If you're sure it can't be older than 1951, then that would explain why it's not in Hochmans.  My inclination was that it was a 1931, but I'm no expert.

Yeah, I forgot that most of the listings in Hochman's are pre-1951...  And the Ace is pretty generic, not terribly useful for getting the brand.  I mentioned that it was common for many Russell brands to use generic Aces of Spades, making them distinct only in their jokers and their tuck boxes.

Also - my estimation was only an educated guess.  It's entirely possible that I'm wrong about 1951 and maybe it is 1931.  I'm just going by what I remember of deck appearances, differences between older and newer faces, etc.  The older 20th-century faces tended generally to have huge pips and small indices, a trend which I think started changing around the 1940s or so.
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Re: Ask the Experts at 52 Plus Joker
« Reply #268 on: August 14, 2019, 10:36:45 PM »
 

Chuqii

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I have a few of that ace, and it took me a long time to track down. I got some in a set of other decks which dated to 1920s and 1930s.  Here is the link to the page from WWPCM. http://a.trionfi.eu/WWPCM/decks08/d06454/d06454.htm
Hope it helps.
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Re: Ask the Experts at 52 Plus Joker
« Reply #269 on: August 15, 2019, 05:02:35 PM »
 

Dufus

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I have a few of that ace, and it took me a long time to track down. I got some in a set of other decks which dated to 1920s and 1930s.  Here is the link to the page from WWPCM. http://a.trionfi.eu/WWPCM/decks08/d06454/d06454.htm
Hope it helps.

Very helpful, thank you for that.  Looks like a USPCC - 1931 Clipper No. 934 (narrow).  Even the back is listed on there. 
 

Re: Ask the Experts at 52 Plus Joker
« Reply #270 on: October 09, 2019, 08:55:55 PM »
 

flexdeck_mike

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Here is something I've been meaning to ask about.  Playing cards for Dominos.  Copyright 1908 by USPCC.  Two decks of double 9's in a leather case. I tried to picture a representative sample, it's just likea set of Dominos, but in playing card format...

Not much artwork as there are no court cards.  I tried to do some Internet research but never hit on the right keywords to yield much.  So, how often do you see something like this?  Any thoughts about the back?

Frankly, any information at all would be appreciated.
Here is something I've been meaning to ask about.  Playing cards for Dominos.  Copyright 1908 by USPCC.  Two decks of double 9's in a leather case. I tried to picture a representative sample, it's just likea set of Dominos, but in playing card format...

Not much artwork as there are no court cards.  I tried to do some Internet research but never hit on the right keywords to yield much.  So, how often do you see something like this?  Any thoughts about the back?

Frankly, any information at all would be appreciated.

Hi Adam
Very nice set but probably not in the original case (yours looks like a nice old one, possibly period to the cards).

If memory serves me, USPC made two small domino sets; the first, the size of regular dominos, the second slightly larger. Both types came in a burgundy colored slipcase and both had red and white speckled backs. However your cards could possibly have been packaged in a tuckcase. 

I do not recall seeing many of these over the years, we did own one set once but not in its original box. 

Nice find - rare?  Maybe!!

Good Evening All.
I bought these domino cards by USPCC from 1906 a couple of years ago along with the two other tiny domino cards (only a few of each) but am unsure where the other's are from. Does anyone have any ideas?
Best,
Mike
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Re: Ask the Experts at 52 Plus Joker
« Reply #271 on: October 14, 2019, 08:31:57 PM »
 

torcams

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I believe the middle card with the gold border on the face is from Chas. Goodall.
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Re: Ask the Experts at 52 Plus Joker
« Reply #272 on: October 14, 2019, 09:49:43 PM »
 

flexdeck_mike

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Thank you Matt! I think you're probably right.
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Re: Ask the Experts at 52 Plus Joker
« Reply #273 on: November 01, 2019, 12:24:53 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Thank you Matt! I think you're probably right.

There is a bridge-sized domino deck that USPC might still have up on their web site for sale.

I also have another deck that might be of interest - mahjong playing cards!  All the tiles from both American and Chinese standard mahjong sets in a single (very thick) pack of cards...
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Re: Ask the Experts at 52 Plus Joker
« Reply #274 on: November 01, 2019, 05:54:40 AM »
 

flexdeck_mike

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Thank you, Don! I have the USPC domino bridge deck, I just could not find it at the time of my post  :-\

Very interested in the mahjong/cards mix you mentioned. By chance do you have a link or picture?

Best,
Mike Dummeyer
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