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Messages - Cabbie

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A Cellar of Fine Vintages / Re: Ask the Experts at 52 Plus Joker
« on: February 15, 2024, 11:18:02 PM »
Thanks a bunch, Mr. Worst Bower! I am so happy to figure out the origin of this odd Piatnik deck. I have a couple of modern Modiano decks in the Italian suits, but with so many regional versions of Italian playing cards, I just missed the Florentine pattern.

So, this all makes sense for this deck, with the Italian text on it. Piatnik was just making a Florentine pattern deck to sell to the northern Italian market. I am agreeing with you that it is old, having the 52 cards. And with all the other clues, I am still good with me saying circa 1920s for the age.

Oh man, I am going to have to go rewrite a lot of my text about the deck since much of the mystery is solved.

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A Cellar of Fine Vintages / Re: Ask the Experts at 52 Plus Joker
« on: February 14, 2024, 02:55:30 PM »
A few more shots of the deck to help identify it :


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A Cellar of Fine Vintages / Re: Ask the Experts at 52 Plus Joker
« on: February 14, 2024, 02:46:44 PM »
SUBJECT  :  Mystery Piatnik deck I need help identifying.

I won this deck from a seller in England a couple of weeks ago. It is made by Ferdinand Piatnik & Sons, Vienna. I researched this deck for days before I broke down and bought it and researched for many days more, but I could find no reference online or in any of my books. It is a rather unusual deck (see photos below), especially for a Piatnik deck. From all the evidence I can gather, I am pretty sure it is an antique deck that I am dating as from the 1920s. But again, I searched everywhere and I can find no match for it, not anywhere online and not in the Fournier Museum books. I even searched all the Fournier entries, since the deck appears to be a recreation of an even earlier deck. No matches there, either. So, if anyone can identify this baby, I'd love some information on the Piatnik mystery deck.

So, here are the details I know about this deck :
1.) It is a 52-card poker type deck with French suits, and has an extra blank card. There were some early 20th century decks that came with a blank card to replace one that was lost or damaged.
2.) The card backs are a cross-hatch pattern in blue, a common backing for late 19th century to early 20th century decks.
3.) The card stock is heavy and solid and relatively rough, typical of many early 20th century decks, whereas a modern recreation deck would likely have a shiny surface on thinner card stock. This deck feels authentically old.
4.) The card color is a very pale eggshell color, typical of many 100 year old decks. A modern deck would likely be bright white for the background color.
5.) The card size is about 100 mm by 67 mm, which is bigger than the standard modern poker deck size.
6.) The Ace of Hearts has the Piatnik "mounted jockey" logo in black and white (no color), which puts it 1891 or after. 1891 is when they started using the horse and jockey logo.
7.) Strangely, the company logo says "Ferd. Piatnik e Figli S.A." and the trade mark horse and rider logo has the phrase "marca registrata". Turns out the "e Figli" (meaning "and sons") and "marca" phrases are both in Italian. And the "e Figli" is seen on several of the court cards. From the company history : In 1917 the Viennese parent company was turned into a family-owned joint stock enterprise under the name ?Erste ?sterreichische Spielkartenfabrik AG, Ferd. Piatnik & S?hne?.  So, you see the company name as F. Piatnik and Sons A.G. from 1917 to 1939 when the name was modified again. Possibly the "S.A." at the end of the Italian version of the company name was the Italian version of the A.G. If that is so, then it would place this deck from 1917 to 1939, but that is still speculation. On the World Web Playing Card Museum website, there is a selection of Piatnik logos from the 1917 to 1939 period when it was F. Piatnik and Sons A.G. , and the last one listed for 1939 is for one saying F. Piatnik e Figli S.A..
8.) The court figures are single ended (almost unknown for Piatnik decks, except for some Cartomancy decks), with figures in medieval dress. And the pips are ONLY in the upper left corner (no bottom right corner pip at all). These court cards are very reminiscent of the French costume decks from the 1840s to the 1860s. The court cards were built like these. So, even if this is an early 20th century deck, is appears to be a reproduction of a French deck from the 1850s or so.
9.) The four of diamonds card also has a very big and fancy company logo on it. Again, I could find no match for this unusual logo. But, on the World Web Playing Card Museum website they have examples of several big fancy Piatnik logos that look similar, with one of these having the A.G. on the end of it and another having the S.A. at the end. And I found an online auction for a Piatnk Skat deck with a similar large logo and the deck is dated as 1920.
10.) There is no 4-digit serial number below the logo, which you sometimes see on modern decks.

So, from all this evidence - the look and feel of the cards, the "S.A." which appears to place the deck between 1917 and 1939, the big fancy company logo on 4ofD, cross-hatch backs, etc. - I am dating the deck as circa the 1920s.

But again, I could find no exact matches for this deck anywhere. It's definitely unusual - an Austrian made deck, seemingly intended for the Itallian market and found in England. And the unusual court cards. Piatnik is still making historical recreation decks, buy they almost always have indices and pips in both corners. So, this court card formation seems to be VERY intentional.

If anyone can give me any information or proof of exactly what this deck is, I would greatly appreciate it.


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A Cellar of Fine Vintages / Re: Ask the Experts at 52 Plus Joker
« on: February 17, 2022, 09:12:56 PM »
So, I won an EBAY auction last week from someone in Maine who was selling some Playing Card Decks and memorabilia. He had several of these printing plates and I managed to win the plate that I really liked, which was the Queen of Diamonds. I was wondering if anyone recognizes the specific design or can tell me anything about it. Especially if any decks were actually made with this plate? 
Several things i already know about it :
1.) It seems bigger than your normal card deck size.
2.) It is a single ended figure, so not sure if it is really old or if it was used to produce a reproduction type deck.
3.) The name "Rachel" is written down the side, so that would likely identify it as a French "Paris Pattern" Queen of Diamonds. The Paris Pattern is the only French version that I know of that named the courts, but possibly some of the other French patterns did.

Thanks for any information you nice folks can provide.

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