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Black seals and Blue seals

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Black seals and Blue seals
« on: May 16, 2012, 09:29:59 PM »
 

NathanCanadas

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Can anyone tell me the difference between black and blue seals on decks? I've seen Ohio decks with black seals, Ohio decks with blue seals, Kentucky decks with black seals, and kentucky decks with blue seals. Can anyone give me more details?
 

Re: Black seals and Blue seals
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2012, 03:30:59 AM »
 

Jin Jian

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i am not really sure .. but i am be certain that ... tally ho ohio deck will be blue seals but some box has ohio but has black seal , which mean it is kentucky deck .. when i see deck if they are ohio or kentucky i will check the seal .. if it is blue mean ohio if it is black mean kentucky .. that is according to my knowledge so i am not sure if i am right or wrong
 

Re: Black seals and Blue seals
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2012, 11:45:50 AM »
 

NathanCanadas

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I believe that isn't correct. To check if a deck was really made in Ohio, you check the jokers, and I own a couple of decks that have Ohio boxes, Ohio jokers, and ohio deck, but with a black seal.
Don, can you help me out here?
 

Re: Black seals and Blue seals
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2012, 10:37:56 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I believe that isn't correct. To check if a deck was really made in Ohio, you check the jokers, and I own a couple of decks that have Ohio boxes, Ohio jokers, and ohio deck, but with a black seal.
Don, can you help me out here?


Oh, so NOW I'm the man with the answers, eh?  :))


To my knowledge, there are NO blue-sealed standard-issue decks from Erlanger.  Show me a picture, if you would.  Custom decks are a totally different animal - they can have any seals the designer's willing to pay for.


Now, this refers ONLY to standard-issue decks - see above.


All modern decks from Kentucky have black seals.  Period.


Earlier decks from Cincinnati used blue and red seals, blue most recently.  Towards the latter part of their run in the Cincinnati (Norwood) plant, they switched to black seals.  It seems more price-effective to use just one color instead of multiple colors.


As the transition took place, there were some decks in Cincinnati boxes that were manufactured in Cincinnati, but some in the same boxes that were made in Erlanger.  A Cincinnati box is no guarantee that it's a Cincinnati deck - IF the box has a black seal.  Blue seal and red seal decks were indeed from Cincinnati.  You can tell the difference by looking at the address on the guarantee Joker.

I bought some Cincinnati-boxed, black-sealed Tally Ho decks.  The guarantee Jokers had the Erlanger address on it - so they were Erlanger decks.

Most if not all of the Cincinnati boxes used to pack Erlanger decks were used during the transition period and the "shakedown" phase of the Erlanger plant, which was rough for about the first year-and-a-half.  Decks from Erlanger made in 2009 and 2010 are more likely to be of lower quality.  But the new sheet-fed press at Erlanger can beat the pants off the old dinosaur sheet-fed press they retired in Cincinnati, resulting in superior quality cards from Erlanger, despite some claims to the contrary, once the shakedown ended by about the beginning of 2011.

The week and year of manufacture would be revealed in the Ace of Spades "letter code".  Recently, USPC added a four-digit number that appears BEFORE the letter in the code.  The first two digits are the week of the year the deck was printed and the last two digits are the last two digits of the year.  For example, a letter code of "1111-N2325H" - which is the same code on a pack of Tally Ho circle backs with a black seal in a Cincinnati box - would have been made in the 11th week of 2011, or around mid-late March.  Standard Bikes and Bees are probably out of the Cincinnati boxes by now, while Tally Ho decks have lower overall sales because they're consider "regional" and are only generally sold in magic shops or stores within New York City, so you'll find newer, better-quality decks still appearing in Cincinnati boxes.

Some decks are "pre-faced", mostly in the Congress brand.  This means the sheets are pre-printed with faces and the backs are left blank for later printing with whatever styles are that season's choices.  Those decks won't have an AoS letter code on them, since they're manufactured on two totally different days, perhaps weeks or months apart from each other.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2012, 10:54:52 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Black seals and Blue seals
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2012, 11:35:50 AM »
 

NathanCanadas

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Thx Don! Yup, you're the man with all the answers. You've always been that person to me but I just have never admitted it :P (Hate being outgunned by someone else ;)
So basically, recap.
Red/Blue seal = Old Cincinatti deck.
Black seal = either a Cincinatti deck from just before the move or a Kentucky deck.
This only applies to standard decks.
If you have a black sealed deck that says "Cincinatti" on the box, it may actually be a newer Kentucky deck in an old Ohio box. Check the first 4 digits of the code on the bottom of the guarantee joker to know when it was printed. The first 2 digits = the week, the last 2 digits = the year. Decks printed in Cincinatti immediately before the move or in Kentucky after the move (2009-2010) are lower quality than decks printed a while before the move or after the beginning of 2011.

Thx Don! :)
 

Re: Black seals and Blue seals
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2012, 11:58:41 AM »
 

ally_tac

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I believe that isn't correct. To check if a deck was really made in Ohio, you check the jokers, and I own a couple of decks that have Ohio boxes, Ohio jokers, and ohio deck, but with a black seal.
Don, can you help me out here?

To my knowledge, there are NO blue-sealed standard-issue decks from Erlanger.  Show me a picture, if you would.  Custom decks are a totally different animal - they can have any seals the designer's willing to pay for.

I just bought 2 blue sealed KY decks a few days ago. I'm not sure what is inside. = =
Here is the picture:
 

Re: Black seals and Blue seals
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2012, 02:04:52 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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I believe that isn't correct. To check if a deck was really made in Ohio, you check the jokers, and I own a couple of decks that have Ohio boxes, Ohio jokers, and ohio deck, but with a black seal.
Don, can you help me out here?

To my knowledge, there are NO blue-sealed standard-issue decks from Erlanger.  Show me a picture, if you would.  Custom decks are a totally different animal - they can have any seals the designer's willing to pay for.

I just bought 2 blue sealed KY decks a few days ago. I'm not sure what is inside. = =
Here is the picture:

Most intriguing!  I'd wager that someone at USPC caught wind of the bad rep the black seal decks were getting and they switched back to blue.  If I had to guess, I'd say those decks were made pretty recently, sometime in the last 16 months or so.  This would mean they're of better quality than even Ohio decks!

If you crack those decks open, I'd be curious to know what the AoS letter code is.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2012, 02:08:18 PM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Black seals and Blue seals
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2012, 07:05:16 AM »
 

ally_tac

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I believe that isn't correct. To check if a deck was really made in Ohio, you check the jokers, and I own a couple of decks that have Ohio boxes, Ohio jokers, and ohio deck, but with a black seal.
Don, can you help me out here?

To my knowledge, there are NO blue-sealed standard-issue decks from Erlanger.  Show me a picture, if you would.  Custom decks are a totally different animal - they can have any seals the designer's willing to pay for.

I just bought 2 blue sealed KY decks a few days ago. I'm not sure what is inside. = =
Here is the picture:

Most intriguing!  I'd wager that someone at USPC caught wind of the bad rep the black seal decks were getting and they switched back to blue.  If I had to guess, I'd say those decks were made pretty recently, sometime in the last 16 months or so.  This would mean they're of better quality than even Ohio decks!

If you crack those decks open, I'd be curious to know what the AoS letter code is.
I just open one of them. It feels better than black sealed ky decks, bicycle stock(as good as crown decks), traditional cut, smooth edge, no off-center.
Does the letter code on ace of spades mean it is a custom deck?
 

Re: Black seals and Blue seals
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2012, 12:30:20 PM »
 

NathanCanadas

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Does the letter code on ace of spades mean it is a custom deck?
No, it means it isn't custom. Can you read it to us? It can give us the exact week and year the deck was printed. Thx!
 

Re: Black seals and Blue seals
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2012, 01:07:11 PM »
 

ally_tac

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Does the letter code on ace of spades mean it is a custom deck?
No, it means it isn't custom. Can you read it to us? It can give us the exact week and year the deck was printed. Thx!
0912-R1608H
 

Re: Black seals and Blue seals
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2012, 05:50:46 PM »
 

NathanCanadas

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Does the letter code on ace of spades mean it is a custom deck?
No, it means it isn't custom. Can you read it to us? It can give us the exact week and year the deck was printed. Thx!
0912-R1608H
You see, that deck is VERY recent!!! 9th week of the year 2012. This deck is from Early March 2012! A bit more than two months ago! Maybe USPCC has decided to revert back to the blue seals!
« Last Edit: May 19, 2012, 06:49:22 PM by NathanCanadas »
 

Re: Black seals and Blue seals
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2012, 06:42:39 PM »
 

Aaron

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Does the letter code on ace of spades mean it is a custom deck?
No, it means it isn't custom. Can you read it to us? It can give us the exact week and year the deck was printed. Thx!
0912-R1608H
You see, that deck is VERY recent!!! 9th week of the year 2012. This deck is from Early March 2012! A bit more than two weeks ago! Maybe USPCC has decided to revert back to the blue seals!
Early march is alot more than 2 weeks ago ::) More like 11 weeks ago. And I think you read it like 2009, 12th week. Idk about that for sure though, but that would make sense for the Blue seals.
People say nothing's impossible, but I do nothing everyday.

Today I found something that reminded me of you. But don't worry I flushed and everything went back to normal.
 

Re: Black seals and Blue seals
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2012, 06:48:35 PM »
 

NathanCanadas

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I meant "a bit more than 2 months ago", 2 months is almost nothing on the playing cards' scale.
 

Re: Black seals and Blue seals
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2012, 06:53:25 PM »
 

Aaron

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I meant "a bit more than 2 months ago", 2 months is almost nothing on the playing cards' scale.
Haha ok that makes more sense.

If there is anyone who knows how to read the dates can you please post how, I dont know how :-[
People say nothing's impossible, but I do nothing everyday.

Today I found something that reminded me of you. But don't worry I flushed and everything went back to normal.
 

Re: Black seals and Blue seals
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2012, 01:14:04 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I just open one of them. It feels better than black sealed ky decks, bicycle stock(as good as crown decks), traditional cut, smooth edge, no off-center.
Does the letter code on ace of spades mean it is a custom deck?

The AoS code definitely states that it was manufactured in the 9th week of this year, 2012.  The letter code "R" after those first four digits confirms that it was made in 2012.

These will show you how to use letter codes to date a USPC deck:
http://www.leeasher.com/playground/articles/how_to_date_a_deck_of_cards.html
http://www.cypressfilms.com/Bicycle/USPC_Dates/USPC_Dating_Codes.html
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Re: Black seals and Blue seals
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2012, 08:07:07 AM »
 

aceofhearts

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That confirms new Ky decks are getting better and better.