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Josh Blackmon · « **on:** February 05, 2014, 02:58:03 PM »

I think it would be neat to see some good photos of vintage bicycle boxes, or at least have a thread where they are all collected in one place to view. I have seen a several of old box styles throughout the forum here and there and I love looking at things I haven't seen before. I don't have a lot to offer myself, but I do have a racer back deck with the joker riding a bike on the back I can share when I get home. I know there are styles much older than that though! It would be cool to get a good look at them.

52plusjoker · « **Reply #1 on:** February 05, 2014, 07:21:28 PM »

Quote from: Josh Blackmon on February 05, 2014, 02:58:03 PM

I think it would be neat to see some good photos of vintage bicycle boxes, or at least have a thread where they are all collected in one place to view. I have seen a several of old box styles throughout the forum here and there and I love looking at things I haven't seen before. I don't have a lot to offer myself, but I do have a racer back deck with the joker riding a bike on the back I can share when I get home. I know there are styles much older than that though! It would be cool to get a goo
d look at them.

Glad to show a few next week when back home

Josh Blackmon · « **Reply #2 on:** February 05, 2014, 11:06:22 PM »

That would be wonderful! Thank you.

DarkDerp · « **Reply #3 on:** February 07, 2014, 07:03:15 PM »

Here ya go josh http://www.jimknapp.com/Cards/Bicycle.htm

Don Boyer · « **Reply #4 on:** February 08, 2014, 02:47:24 AM »

Quote from: DarkDerp on February 07, 2014, 07:03:15 PM

Here ya go josh http://www.jimknapp.com/Cards/Bicycle.htm

That's a great site, but not quite what he was looking for. Josh wants to see the tuckboxes, not the backs. We have tons of info on Bicycle vintage backs, but not so much on the boxes they came in.

Josh Blackmon · « **Reply #5 on:** February 08, 2014, 12:03:29 PM »

Exactly! I have seen small photos of vintage bicycle tuck boxes from their earliest years but there are not very many good large photos out there.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #6 on:** February 09, 2014, 03:32:03 AM »

Quote from: Josh Blackmon on February 08, 2014, 12:03:29 PM

Exactly! I have seen small photos of vintage bicycle tuck boxes from their earliest years but there are not very many good large photos out there.

Well, it's a scarcity issue - often the decks end up in collections without the boxes, which in many cases fell apart with age, handling and use. It never occurred to anyone to make tuckboxes that would last for years, never mind decades! There's also some very old decks that never had a box - they came wrapped in a piece of paper to keep them intact until they were sold, and that was it. Kind of hard to believe, in the age of shrink-wrapped and safety-sealed EVERYTHING, I know...

52plusjoker · « **Reply #7 on:** February 09, 2014, 11:08:12 AM »

Quote from: Don Boyer on February 09, 2014, 03:32:03 AM

Quote from: Josh Blackmon on February 08, 2014, 12:03:29 PM
Exactly! I have seen small photos of vintage bicycle tuck boxes from their earliest years but there are not very many good large photos out there.

Well, it's a scarcity issue - often the decks end up in collections without the boxes, which in many cases fell apart with age, handling and use. It never occurred to anyone to make tuckboxes that would last for years, never mind decades! There's also some very old decks that never had a box - they came wrapped in a piece of paper to keep them intact until they were sold, and that was it. Kind of hard to believe, in the age of shrink-wrapped and safety-sealed EVERYTHING, I know...

Most American decks until the early 1870's came only in a wrapper which usually had the brand and some design printed thereon. Then, the manufacturers started with slipcases and tuck boxes but the decks were still wrapped in colorful paper wrappers. Eventually, in the first decade or so of the 20th century, the paper wrappers were replaced with glassine and the cellophane wrappers. Oh for the good old days!

I have pictured a box and wrapper that came together in a late 1890's Bicycle issue with the Emblem back and gold edges. The first picture shows the fronts and the second the backs.

Yashi · « **Reply #8 on:** February 09, 2014, 07:28:21 PM »

I saw a paper wrapped USPCC deck of cards on ebay before but I wasn't sure if it was a legitimate deck of cards because I thought USPCC always packed their cards in boxes. Thanks for the info.

Knowledge +1

Josh Blackmon · « **Reply #9 on:** February 09, 2014, 10:17:18 PM »

These are very interesting to see up close. Thank you for sharing!

Pip Nosher · « **Reply #10 on:** February 11, 2014, 09:55:51 AM »

Josh -

I have pictured most of the variations of USPCC Bicycle boxes on my website: www.bicyclecards.org. The ace of spades and jokers that were paired with those boxes are pictured as well, along with dates of issue. There is not a direct link on the site (which I will correct), but if you click on the "1" in the numerical list you will see the Acorn back design and below it are all of the back designations from Tom and Judy's Hochman Encyclopedia (US8, US8a, USb, etc.). Click on each of these and in most cases you will see pictures of several different examples of the boxes.

Most of the Bicycle back designs pictured on the "jimknapp.com" website are also from my site.

Interesting variations on the box designs are always turning up. Here are three rare examples sent to me by other collectors (2 from Steve Bowling).

- Joseph

Josh Blackmon · « **Reply #11 on:** February 11, 2014, 10:19:09 AM »

These are some I have not seen before. I am really intrigued by the motor bicycle one. This sort of thing makes me want to turn out every junk drawer from here to Canada to see if I can find some of these beautiful old boxes and decks.

Update: I found the photos of the boxes you mentioned above and that was exactly the sort of thing I was looking for. I had been to your site before, but never saw them tucked away in that corner. I Thank you so much for sharing this.

52plusjoker · « **Reply #12 on:** February 11, 2014, 03:28:43 PM »

I have never seen that red box or the great one for the 'seconds' at the bottom. Was the middle box for a Bicycle knock-off made by Goodall or de la Rue?

Or is it a real 808 made for UK distribution with a motor box?

Pip Nosher · « **Reply #13 on:** February 12, 2014, 11:27:19 AM »

The Motor Bicycle box is a real USPCC Bicycle box -- see the picture below for more detail. The deck is a US8d Auto No. 2. I have another interesting U.K. Bicycle box, also pictured below. Note the "U.S." in the center of the design. This one has a US8d Motorcycle No. 2 deck in it. In both cases, the top, bottom and sides are all branded with the usual USPCC graphics, but the obverse and reverse are entirely non-USPCC designs. The Bicycle export decks are interesting. Many of the later US8c decks can be found in 2-part red sleeve boxes, apparently only sold that way in the U.K.

jmrock · « **Reply #14 on:** February 12, 2014, 12:09:38 PM »

Joseph… So glad to see you here… The pics are just magnificent… What a collection…

52plusjoker · « **Reply #15 on:** February 12, 2014, 12:59:32 PM »

Quote from: Pip Nosher on February 12, 2014, 11:27:19 AM

The Motor Bicycle box is a real USPCC Bicycle box -- see the picture below for more detail. The deck is a US8d Auto No. 2. I have another interesting U.K. Bicycle box, also pictured below. Note the "U.S." in the center of the design. This one has a US8d Motorcycle No. 2 deck in it. In both cases, the top, bottom and sides are all branded with the usual USPCC graphics, but the obverse and reverse are entirely non-USPCC designs. The Bicycle export decks are interesting. Many of the later US8c decks can be found in 2-part red sleeve boxes, apparently only sold that way in the U.K.

Joseph
These are great. I doubt Gene Hochman himself had seen these. Would they be in the period when Victor Mauger was running the US Card Agency in London in the 1890 's?

Pip Nosher · « **Reply #16 on:** February 20, 2014, 11:04:34 AM »

Quote from: 52plusjoker on February 12, 2014, 12:59:32 PM

Quote from: Pip Nosher on February 12, 2014, 11:27:19 AM
The Motor Bicycle box is a real USPCC Bicycle box -- see the picture below for more detail. The deck is a US8d Auto No. 2. I have another interesting U.K. Bicycle box, also pictured below. Note the "U.S." in the center of the design. This one has a US8d Motorcycle No. 2 deck in it. In both cases, the top, bottom and sides are all branded with the usual USPCC graphics, but the obverse and reverse are entirely non-USPCC designs. The Bicycle export decks are interesting. Many of the later US8c decks can be found in 2-part red sleeve boxes, apparently only sold that way in the U.K.
Joseph
These are great. I doubt Gene Hochman himself had seen these. Would they be in the period when Victor Mauger was running the US Card Agency in London in the 1890 's?

Tom -
I'm not sure, and I must confess I don't know anything about Victor Mauger or the US Card Agency in London (and I'm all ears). But, one of the Bicycle projects I hope to accomplish this year is to make a list of all the known USPCC decks that were exported to the UK and Europe. I have only ever seen one Bicycle deck that was definitively sold outside of the UK, and that is a US8c Motor No. 2 with a lovely marbled paper inner sleeve inside the conventional US8c box. The ace of hearts is marked with a German duty paid stamp. Ever seen anything like that? I will scan as soon as my collection is re-curated (currently in storage).
- Joseph

52plusjoker · « **Reply #17 on:** February 20, 2014, 12:50:13 PM »

Away till Saturday. Will post some info then about US Card Agency.

jwats01 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 20, 2014, 07:38:42 PM »

This is good stuff! Thanks for sharing all!

Pip Nosher · « **Reply #19 on:** February 21, 2014, 01:44:31 PM »

Josh et al. - I have updated my website to include links on the home page to the box, ace of spades and joker variants: www.bicyclecards.org (look on the bottom of the page).
I have also updated the lists within each link to show which decks came in each variant. The lists are by no means complete (so far they are based solely on what I have in my collection), and I would appreciate anyone here contributing more information. I am also simplifying the display of each back design. Click on #1 (Acorn) for a preview.

jwats01 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 21, 2014, 10:01:34 PM »

Joseph,

Your website is phenomenal. So many pictures and great data. I have been spending way too much time there lately! LOL

Josh Blackmon · « **Reply #21 on:** February 21, 2014, 11:10:57 PM »

Needless to say, your site is a bookmarked resource for me now. Thank you!

Don Boyer · « **Reply #22 on:** February 22, 2014, 03:50:55 AM »

Man, do I love that site! It's a resource I've referred to on many occasions.

52plusjoker · « **Reply #23 on:** February 24, 2014, 02:22:13 PM »

Quote

Tom -
I'm not sure, and I must confess I don't know anything about Victor Mauger or the US Card Agency in London (and I'm all ears). But, one of the Bicycle projects I hope to accomplish this year is to make a list of all the known USPCC decks that were exported to the UK and Europe. I have only ever seen one Bicycle deck that was definitively sold outside of the UK, and that is a US8c Motor No. 2 with a lovely marbled paper inner sleeve inside the conventional US8c box. The ace of hearts is marked with a German duty paid stamp. Ever seen anything like that? I will scan as soon as my collection is re-curated (currently in storage).
- Joseph

I have some detailed information on this somewhere. In the interim, a brief summary. Victor Mauger was a wholesaler of printing equipment in USA & Canada, having emigrated from England in 1855. He also started importing Goodall playing cards in 1867. By 1873 he was producing his own brands in the US as well. He dropped the Goddall line in 1876 due to high taffifs which made their import uneconomical. In 1878 he sold his business to rivals, NYCC and Andrew Dougherty. From 1880 to the early 1890's he worked for Russell & Morgan [hereinafter USPC] as General Agent and then moved back to London where he became the USPC representative for the UK importing under the name of American Playing Card Agency.

Years ago we found these four envelopes with sample cards for three USPC brands [Capitol #188, Whist #175 and Bicycle #808] as well as one National PCC brand - Columbia #133 NPCC had by this time been bought by USPC.

Pip Nosher · « **Reply #24 on:** February 25, 2014, 01:09:24 PM »

Quote from: 52plusjoker on February 24, 2014, 02:22:13 PM

Quote
Tom -
I'm not sure, and I must confess I don't know anything about Victor Mauger or the US Card Agency in London (and I'm all ears). But, one of the Bicycle projects I hope to accomplish this year is to make a list of all the known USPCC decks that were exported to the UK and Europe. I have only ever seen one Bicycle deck that was definitively sold outside of the UK, and that is a US8c Motor No. 2 with a lovely marbled paper inner sleeve inside the conventional US8c box. The ace of hearts is marked with a German duty paid stamp. Ever seen anything like that? I will scan as soon as my collection is re-curated (currently in storage).
- Joseph

I have some detailed information on this somewhere. In the interim, a brief summary. Victor Mauger was a wholesaler of printing equipment in USA & Canada, having emigrated from England in 1855. He also started importing Goodall playing cards in 1867. By 1873 he was producing his own brands in the US as well. He dropped the Goddall line in 1876 due to high taffifs which made their import uneconomical. In 1878 he sold his business to rivals, NYCC and Andrew Dougherty. From 1880 to the early 1890's he worked for Russell & Morgan [hereinafter USPC] as General Agent and then moved back to London where he became the USPC representative for the UK importing under the name of American Playing Card Agency.

Years ago we found these four envelopes with sample cards for three USPC brands [Capitol #188, Whist #175 and Bicycle #808] as well as one National PCC brand - Columbia #133 NPCC had by this time been bought by USPC.

Tom - That's fascinating information about Victor Mauger and the USPC exports to the UK. Other than the samples you shared, I have never seen cards/boxes with the "American Playing Card Agency" brand on them, but I will keep my eye out. Those sample envelopes are great!

And thanks to all for your kind words about my website. I confess I have not been particularly good about updating it or adding pictures and information, but now that I know that it is considered a valued resource I will endeavor to update it more regularly. I have a number of scans and more information about many of the back designs that I will add in the coming months. Cheers, Joseph

Watson7 · « **Reply #25 on:** February 27, 2014, 04:46:12 PM »

HI Joseph,

You are the Man!! Great contributions to this Forum. Thanks very much.

Rod Starling.