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Samples of The N.Y. Consolidated Card Co.'s celebrated "Squeezer" Playing Cards

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52plusjoker

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That is a good question. I'll take a look around but not optimistic I'll find the answer.
Tom Dawson
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Don Boyer

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Having gotten curious about back 178 I checked my set like this and it has back 178 reversed and mine shows the 2 of diamonds. In going through some papers from Jack Farrell I have photo copies of his sample folder and his no. 178 is also reversed and shows the 7 of diamonds. Now it's clear that this was intentional and leads to the question, what was Bee back 178??

Your theory about the back being sold out sounds very plausible, especially with the same back being excluded from a few sample books as opposed to just one.

Just how thoroughly glued in are those cards?  it might be possible to steam one a little, just enough for a peek at the back - but it's a helluva risk to the sample book.

I believe one would need to find older sample books to have a shot at seeing that back.  Either that, or the design was for some unknown reason pulled at the last minute, after the sample book was printed but before the insertion of the samples, which is why it was replaced with face-up cards in the various sample books.  There's a chance, though slim, that the back might even appear in advertising of the same period.  I don't supposed USPC created something akin to a mail-order catalog that had pictures of the backs rather than actual samples?  The missing back might appear in such a thing, if it exists.
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WKalush

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I believe one would need to find older sample books to have a shot at seeing that back.  Either that, or the design was for some unknown reason pulled at the last minute, after the sample book was printed but before the insertion of the samples, which is why it was replaced with face-up cards in the various sample books.  There's a chance, though slim, that the back might even appear in advertising of the same period.  I don't supposed USPC created something akin to a mail-order catalog that had pictures of the backs rather than actual samples?  The missing back might appear in such a thing, if it exists.


On further research I can find no image or other reference to the Bee 178 back. My theory is the same as yours. Either the Sample folders are misprinted and this was how they fixed it or they had 178 in development and pulled it after the folders were produced. All the folders from NYCC that I've seen are from this same era and NYCC did samples differently at other times.
Presently back 178 is a phantom.
I'm not sure about USPCC but NYCC did issue some catalogs but none that I have show back 178.

bk
 

 

52plusjoker

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I believe one would need to find older sample books to have a shot at seeing that back.  Either that, or the design was for some unknown reason pulled at the last minute, after the sample book was printed but before the insertion of the samples, which is why it was replaced with face-up cards in the various sample books.  There's a chance, though slim, that the back might even appear in advertising of the same period.  I don't supposed USPC created something akin to a mail-order catalog that had pictures of the backs rather than actual samples?  The missing back might appear in such a thing, if it exists.



On further research I can find no image or other reference to the Bee 178 back. My theory is the same as yours. Either the Sample folders are misprinted and this was how they fixed it or they had 178 in development and pulled it after the folders were produced. All the folders from NYCC that I've seen are from this same era and NYCC did samples differently at other times.
Presently back 178 is a phantom.
I'm not sure about USPCC but NYCC did issue some catalogs but none that I have show back 178.

bk

We have some price lists with pictures - will try and put my hands on them tomorrow and see, if by any chance, I can find #178
Tom Dawson
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Don Boyer

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I'm not sure about USPCC but NYCC did issue some catalogs but none that I have show back 178.

bk

I'm too used to thinking that USPC makes everything...  :))
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JacksonRobinson

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I would literally give my right arm to anyone that provide me scans of these backs and other NYC backs. These backs are what I've been searching for, for a basis for my Kings wild signature series. Any body please help.
Jackson Robinson
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WKalush

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I would literally give my right arm to anyone that provide me scans of these backs and other NYC backs. These backs are what I've been searching for, for a basis for my Kings wild signature series. Any body please help.

Hi Jackson,
You send the arm and I'll send the scans!! Actually better keep the arm attached but just sign it over to me ;)
You will see all the NYCC backs and much more very soon my friend.
Happy New Year.

bk
 

 

jmrock

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I would literally give my right arm to anyone that provide me scans of these backs and other NYC backs. These backs are what I've been searching for, for a basis for my Kings wild signature series. Any body please help.

I got your back Jackson… High Res Scans coming to a CPU near you soon…
 

 

Don Boyer

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I think I'll have to establish a new rule: no trades in exchange for body parts...  :))

I look forward to seeing those backs as well.  I do get the feeling we're going to need a reference section soon enough.
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52plusjoker

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I look forward to seeing those backs as well.  I do get the feeling we're going to need a reference section soon enough.

Lee and I are meeting this morning to discuss this amongst other things and will be in touch later!
Tom Dawson
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JacksonRobinson

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I just picked up this NYCC Squeezer Sample Book from Steve Bowling. Very excited. These backs are amazing!!!









Jackson Robinson
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WKalush

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Congrats, nice one. You will notice that when they show the faces they don't put them over a spot printed for a back design.
 

 

52plusjoker

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I just picked up this NYCC Squeezer Sample Book from Steve Bowling. Very excited. These backs are amazing!!!
Jackson - that's a beaut - good for you and glad you think they are great.

Congrats, nice one. You will notice that when they show the faces they don't put them over a spot printed for a back design.

Bill - Impetus for the Conjuring Arts back project to really take off!
Tom Dawson
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WKalush

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Yes Tom, we can get started any time. We are definitely willing to use Ask Alexander as the search engine for it.

bk
« Last Edit: January 02, 2014, 04:48:16 PM by WKalush »
 

 

Don Boyer

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Crown Back #189 looks AWFULLY familiar...

Sign into your Club 808 account, then click this link:

http://www.shopbicyclecards.com/Amber-Stag-Deck-P218C70.aspx

USPC released it recently as the Bicycle Amber Stag deck, a Club 808 exclusive!

« Last Edit: January 02, 2014, 04:41:10 PM by Don Boyer »
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10ofclubs

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Dang it Don, you beat me to it. I thought the exact same thing when I first saw it. The weird part is, wasn't there a contest to choose the name for the deck when they only had sketches?
 

 

52plusjoker

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Interesting they used the first Bicycle Ace & Joker - instead of the fancier second Ace. Don't like the back!
Tom Dawson
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JacksonRobinson

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Crown Back #189 looks AWFULLY familiar...

Sign into your Club 808 account, then click this link:

http://www.shopbicyclecards.com/Amber-Stag-Deck-P218C70.aspx

USPC released it recently as the Bicycle Amber Stag deck, a Club 808 exclusive!

I noticed that as well Don, almost immediately. All they did was change the original clock face to a cask.
Jackson Robinson
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WKalush

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Interesting they used the first Bicycle Ace & Joker - instead of the fancier second Ace. Don't like the back!

When Karen was in charge of the brand they were hyper careful about not doing anything that could be seen as diluting their trademarks (i.e. printing variant Bicycle Rider backs, even if they had done so previously). They extended this mania to the point that they would not allow me to use the first Bee Ace of Spades because they reasoned it wasn't their current trademark so could dilute their rights.
They might have decided this Ace of Spades was safer than the prettier second state. According to those in the IP world their reasoning isn't completely rational but over-cautious.
Just my theory.

bk
« Last Edit: January 02, 2014, 07:42:05 PM by WKalush »
 

 

Don Boyer

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Interesting they used the first Bicycle Ace & Joker - instead of the fancier second Ace. Don't like the back!

When Karen was in charge of the brand they were hyper careful about not doing anything that could be seen as diluting their trademarks (i.e. printing variant Bicycle Rider backs, even if they had done so previously). They extended this mania to the point that they would not allow me to use the first Bee Ace of Spades because they reasoned it wasn't their current trademark so could dilute their rights.
They might have decided this Ace of Spades was safer than the prettier second state. According to those in the IP world their reasoning isn't completely rational but over-cautious.
Just my theory.

bk

Honestly, I think their lawyers are simply freaking out over just how much of their intellectual property is in the public domain.
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kdklown

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You would think that the infusion of, for instance, the Bicycle brand in the mind of the common person would be a point of pride for them.  I understand if others were printing their trademarks but in the previous examples USPC is refusing to print it.  I don't think Kimberly-Clark gets upset when someone asks for a Kleenex.  Just seems counterproductive from a business perspective.
 

 

Don Boyer

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You would think that the infusion of, for instance, the Bicycle brand in the mind of the common person would be a point of pride for them.  I understand if others were printing their trademarks but in the previous examples USPC is refusing to print it.  I don't think Kimberly-Clark gets upset when someone asks for a Kleenex.  Just seems counterproductive from a business perspective.

Well, yes and no, they wouldn't be upset.  They're tickled pink when someone asks for a Kleenex and gets a Kleenex.  They're less than thrilled when people think of Kleenex as a generic name for all tissues, which dilutes their trademark.

This, however, is different from name branding.  There's no denying that Bicycle is a brand name for playing cards and deserving of trademark protection.  The issue here is that Bicycle insists on sticking to its older back designs as their standards rather than making a new standard.  There's good reason for them to do so - it's a highly recognizable design, and magicians all over the world use the Rider Back.  Defending the Rider Back by not allowing dilution is a smart business move.

The problem is that USPC Legal appears to be going overboard, tossing out the baby with the bathwater.  They're seeing ALL of their old designs, realizing that the oldest ones are past copyright protection, and attempting to defend THEM as trademarks as well, in essence stretching the definition of trademark past the breaking point.  Case in point, they're no longer allowing Zenneth Kok to make the Coterie Bee deck, fearing dilution of trademark on the classic Bee Diamond Back design.  Crazier still, they think, in the case of the Erdnase 216 deck, that by allowing Bill Kalush to make a precise copy of an old Bee Ace of Spades, they would somehow be watering down the current Bee AoS as a trademark for the brand - despite the fact that it's THEIR OWN ACE OF SPADES he wants to put in its place.

Things like this make them paranoid, I think.  They've already lost one of their Automobile backs to the Rally Brand from US Games Systems due to lapsed copyright, they're fending off fly-by-night Chinese companies trying to make forged Bee decks, etc.  But it's simply unrealistic for them to think they can protect everything.  They're no better than the Disney Company - if it wasn't for their lobbying of Congress to extend copyright protection to its present length, "Steamboat Willie" and all the characters contained within would be in the public domain now, meaning Mickey Mouse, the company mascot, would be freely copyable in that form.

The original intent of copyright law was to allow the creator of a piece of intellectual property to gain some benefit from his or her original thought during their lifetime, but for the work to eventually become part of the common intellectual property of the people and culture from which the work originated.  It was actually meant to lapse within the artist's lifetime after he or she has had a reasonable amount of time to profit from the exclusive rights, back when copyrights were first created, and didn't start getting severely extended (and overextended by legal though questionable means) until companies started being declared as copyright holders rather than individuals.

I was never very comfortable with the doctrine of the company as a citizen, and this is the not even among the worst examples of its excesses.  How much further will be be from now when companies are given the right to vote for public officials?
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