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C1896 Vintage New Era Playing Cards

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C1896 Vintage New Era Playing Cards
« on: September 15, 2013, 11:14:13 AM »
 

Card Player

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Saw these on eBay. Absolutely one of the most beautiful USPCC vintage decks I've ever seen. Very Nice Non Standard Court Cards, Love the "Trademark" scroll work of the traditional bicycle AOS.

http://bit.ly/18jl4C5
« Last Edit: September 15, 2013, 11:55:19 AM by Anonymous »
 

Re: C1896 Vintage New Era Playing Cards
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2013, 11:19:23 AM »
 

jmrock

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Absolutely gorgeous deck... One of my favorites... A definite on the list of things to get, but I think he's a bit high... No matter what vintage collector I ask, I can't get a definitive answer on when the joker(s) became part of the standard deck of playing cards... To purchase a deck like this at that price when it is missing jokers wouldn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy...
 

Re: C1896 Vintage New Era Playing Cards
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2013, 04:08:53 PM »
 

Leif

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I really like it too. I actually asked uspcc if they would let me reprint it, or use the courts in a new deck or anything that they would feel inclined to allow, with those courts, similar to benjitaylor did with the Apollo deck. Unfortunately, they said they didn't have the slightest interest in scanning and cleaning the deck for printing. Furthermore, the design department was totally overburdened with working on new and current decks. They said, however, that they did have the design on file, just not computerized. I even offered to scan and clean it myself, but to no avail.

There are at least two different versions that I have seen. The other one have a little bolder and curlier numbers and letters in the indices.
 

Re: C1896 Vintage New Era Playing Cards
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2013, 11:55:17 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Absolutely gorgeous deck... One of my favorites... A definite on the list of things to get, but I think he's a bit high... No matter what vintage collector I ask, I can't get a definitive answer on when the joker(s) became part of the standard deck of playing cards... To purchase a deck like this at that price when it is missing jokers wouldn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy...

I'd say with a reasonable degree of certainty, based on a little research and experience, that this deck came with a joker though maybe not two.  Jokers started to appear in decks around the 1870s and were widespread by the 1880s.  The deck's copyright of 1896 would indicate that this deck design was being made no earlier - but it doesn't say anything about how much LATER, either.  This deck could easily be from anywhere between 1896 and 1904, when USPC started using letter codes on their Aces of Spades.  Unfortunately, it can't be definitely said that it isn't from after 1904, since the letter codes were widely used but not universally so, so that's where there's a degree of uncertainty.

Making the assumption that it was made between 1896 and 1904, the common practice at the time was, I think, for only a single joker included in a deck - the first Bicycle deck had one joker in 1885.  I don't know when it became common to include two, but I've seen decks from the 1920s with two jokers, so a good guess would be between the start of USPC's letter code system and the end of the Great War.

And yes, that is a lot of money to be asking for this deck, even with the condition it's in.

I really like it too. I actually asked uspcc if they would let me reprint it, or use the courts in a new deck or anything that they would feel inclined to allow, with those courts, similar to benjitaylor did with the Apollo deck. Unfortunately, they said they didn't have the slightest interest in scanning and cleaning the deck for printing. Furthermore, the design department was totally overburdened with working on new and current decks. They said, however, that they did have the design on file, just not computerized. I even offered to scan and clean it myself, but to no avail.

There are at least two different versions that I have seen. The other one have a little bolder and curlier numbers and letters in the indices.

You could try buying this deck and doing the clean-up work yourself, as long as USPC didn't mind...
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Re: C1896 Vintage New Era Playing Cards
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2013, 02:59:18 PM »
 

52plusjoker

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Absolutely gorgeous deck... One of my favorites... A definite on the list of things to get, but I think he's a bit high... No matter what vintage collector I ask, I can't get a definitive answer on when the joker(s) became part of the standard deck of playing cards... To purchase a deck like this at that price when it is missing jokers wouldn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy...

I'd say with a reasonable degree of certainty, based on a little research and experience, that this deck came with a joker though maybe not two.  Jokers started to appear in decks around the 1870s and were widespread by the 1880s.  The deck's copyright of 1896 would indicate that this deck design was being made no earlier - but it doesn't say anything about how much LATER, either.  This deck could easily be from anywhere between 1896 and 1904, when USPC started using letter codes on their Aces of Spades.  Unfortunately, it can't be definitely said that it isn't from after 1904, since the letter codes were widely used but not universally so, so that's where there's a degree of uncertainty.

Making the assumption that it was made between 1896 and 1904, the common practice at the time was, I think, for only a single joker included in a deck - the first Bicycle deck had one joker in 1885.  I don't know when it became common to include two, but I've seen decks from the 1920s with two jokers, so a good guess would be between the start of USPC's letter code system and the end of the Great War.

And yes, that is a lot of money to be asking for this deck, even with the condition it's in.

I really like it too. I actually asked uspcc if they would let me reprint it, or use the courts in a new deck or anything that they would feel inclined to allow, with those courts, similar to benjitaylor did with the Apollo deck. Unfortunately, they said they didn't have the slightest interest in scanning and cleaning the deck for printing. Furthermore, the design department was totally overburdened with working on new and current decks. They said, however, that they did have the design on file, just not computerized. I even offered to scan and clean it myself, but to no avail.

There are at least two different versions that I have seen. The other one have a little bolder and curlier numbers and letters in the indices.

You could try buying this deck and doing the clean-up work yourself, as long as USPC didn't mind...

You are all going to love the Joker. We have a sparkling mint copy of this spectacular deck, the second finest ever out of USPC. Might be an idea to reproduce it if you want to contact us with your plan.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2013, 03:00:48 PM by 52plusjoker »
Tom Dawson
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Re: C1896 Vintage New Era Playing Cards
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2013, 03:06:38 PM »
 

sprouts1115

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Nice to see real weapons and not the distorted billy clubs the Jacks have today.  Makes me wonder why these didn't catch on and become the standard of today...
 

Re: C1896 Vintage New Era Playing Cards
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2013, 08:05:58 PM »
 

Leif

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Absolutely gorgeous deck... One of my favorites... A definite on the list of things to get, but I think he's a bit high... No matter what vintage collector I ask, I can't get a definitive answer on when the joker(s) became part of the standard deck of playing cards... To purchase a deck like this at that price when it is missing jokers wouldn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy...

I'd say with a reasonable degree of certainty, based on a little research and experience, that this deck came with a joker though maybe not two.  Jokers started to appear in decks around the 1870s and were widespread by the 1880s.  The deck's copyright of 1896 would indicate that this deck design was being made no earlier - but it doesn't say anything about how much LATER, either.  This deck could easily be from anywhere between 1896 and 1904, when USPC started using letter codes on their Aces of Spades.  Unfortunately, it can't be definitely said that it isn't from after 1904, since the letter codes were widely used but not universally so, so that's where there's a degree of uncertainty.

Making the assumption that it was made between 1896 and 1904, the common practice at the time was, I think, for only a single joker included in a deck - the first Bicycle deck had one joker in 1885.  I don't know when it became common to include two, but I've seen decks from the 1920s with two jokers, so a good guess would be between the start of USPC's letter code system and the end of the Great War.

And yes, that is a lot of money to be asking for this deck, even with the condition it's in.

I really like it too. I actually asked uspcc if they would let me reprint it, or use the courts in a new deck or anything that they would feel inclined to allow, with those courts, similar to benjitaylor did with the Apollo deck. Unfortunately, they said they didn't have the slightest interest in scanning and cleaning the deck for printing. Furthermore, the design department was totally overburdened with working on new and current decks. They said, however, that they did have the design on file, just not computerized. I even offered to scan and clean it myself, but to no avail.

There are at least two different versions that I have seen. The other one have a little bolder and curlier numbers and letters in the indices.

You could try buying this deck and doing the clean-up work yourself, as long as USPC didn't mind...

You are all going to love the Joker. We have a sparkling mint copy of this spectacular deck, the second finest ever out of USPC. Might be an idea to reproduce it if you want to contact us with your plan.

Lovely joker.
I would really like to see this deck reproduced. I love the courts, maybe because they somewhat resembles the court style of my native, Swedish, playing cards.

If these were to be reproduced, how faithful should it be to the original? Should it be without the "dimplings" like the original, or with "dimplings" as the standard seems to be nowadays? should the box look as close to the original as possible? In other words, should one aim for an exact replica, or should it be more of a homage to a great looking deck?

And I was thinking about copyright. What kind of copyright does USPC have on this deck?

I wonder why this deck has never been reproduced before? Is it maybe harder or more expensive to print than the standard courts? It seems like it may have more than six colors in it?

This is the version with the curlier indices, and plain, white number cards.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2013, 08:07:46 PM by Leif »
 

Re: C1896 Vintage New Era Playing Cards
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2013, 08:46:05 PM »
 

52plusjoker

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I think this version is the first of the two. Ours is the one first listed in this topic. In my view reproductions should be as faithful to the original as possible - BUT with a clear indication that it is a repro. Not sure if copyright/patent an issue or not. Hard to think it would concern USPC.
Tom Dawson
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Re: C1896 Vintage New Era Playing Cards
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2013, 02:01:01 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Nice to see real weapons and not the distorted billy clubs the Jacks have today.  Makes me wonder why these didn't catch on and become the standard of today...

Yeah, like that Jack of Spades, and his lethal...bugle?  :))


Lovely joker.
I would really like to see this deck reproduced. I love the courts, maybe because they somewhat resembles the court style of my native, Swedish, playing cards.

If these were to be reproduced, how faithful should it be to the original? Should it be without the "dimplings" like the original, or with "dimplings" as the standard seems to be nowadays? should the box look as close to the original as possible? In other words, should one aim for an exact replica, or should it be more of a homage to a great looking deck?

And I was thinking about copyright. What kind of copyright does USPC have on this deck?

I wonder why this deck has never been reproduced before? Is it maybe harder or more expensive to print than the standard courts? It seems like it may have more than six colors in it?

This is the version with the curlier indices, and plain, white number cards.


I think this version is the first of the two. Ours is the one first listed in this topic. In my view reproductions should be as faithful to the original as possible - BUT with a clear indication that it is a repro. Not sure if copyright/patent an issue or not. Hard to think it would concern USPC.

First of all, any copyright made prior to 1923 has expired under US Copyright Law, as have copyrights of selected works since that date.  Trademark would be difficult to enforce since the company hasn't used any of the features of the deck as trademarks probably since it was printed.  Patenting on the deck would never have happened - playing cards have hundreds of years of prior art.  It would be no different from me trying to patent the salad fork; unique artistry in the making of said fork doesn't change the fact that it's still a salad fork, identical in function to all the salad forks that preceded it, so it is not a unique invention of my creation.  (Don't get me started on the patenting of genomes...)

It was probably at the time among the more expensive decks the company made, due to the number of colors and level of detail as well as the fact that printing presses were as much an art as a science at the time, if not more so.  As such, it would have been expensive to purchase as well, and not a commonly-found deck even in its own era.  But these days, with modern CMYK printing presses, I don't think it would present a great problem.

Simplest way to make this deck in terms of being faithful while also recognizing modern playing card innovations as well as preventing anyone from passing this deck of as the original would be to use an embossed card stock and a modern coating like Magic Finish.  The original deck's coating probably hasn't existed at USPC for a number of decades now.  Make the box faithful to the original, but give the bottom panel all the modern copyright info that you typically see on custom decks these days.  In this manner, absolutely no one would confuse the modern version with the original version unless they were very unobservant.

Interesting fact on copyright law: remember the stage musical "Little Shop of Horrors", later recreated as a movie musical?  The musical was actually based on a 1960s Roger Corman horror picture.  The stage play didn't require Corman's permission to make because the copyright law of that time protected works for 28 years with an option to extend for an additional 14 years - and Corman's office staff overlooked this and neglected to renew the copyright!  The original Corman movie is now a public domain work - at one time, several companies were releasing badly copied versions of the film on videotape.

Today, under US Copyright Law, a work is protected for 70 years after the death of the author if the work was an author's creation and not a work-for-hire created by a company.  For work created at a company's behest where the copyright is held by the company, it is protected for the shorter of these two periods: either 120 years after creation or 95 years after publication.
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Re: C1896 Vintage New Era Playing Cards
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2013, 04:50:32 PM »
 

Jamm Pakd Cards

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I really like the back design on these.
Justin
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