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Hi from Stamford, CT

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Hi from Stamford, CT
« on: October 06, 2019, 07:09:38 AM »
 

flexdeck_mike

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Good Morning All,

My name is Mike and I live in Stamford, CT. I'll call myself a playing card enthusiast. I'm so happy to have just found this community and sad that it took me so long to find.

I grew up playing poker and different card games with my Grammy. When we played, my favorite game was 'follow the queen' because the rules changed and for each hand would likely get to choose what was wild.

In December 2016, when preparing for a backpacking trip, I came up with the idea of putting multiple classic games all in one deck of cards. For the next 1.5 years I fell into a pretty deep hole of research, trying to find someone who did already what I had in mind. Purchasing almost any deck I could get a hold of that was remotely similar, (or later which just caught my eye) and because of that, I now would call myself a small-time collector as well.

I read multiple books by Partlett, the Hochman/Dawson Encyclopedia, Singer, Hargrave, Benham and Tilley on the history of playing cards. The closest deck I could find was called the 'duplex deck' and I believe it was designed by someone named Joseph Daniel Niederlitz. I also found a deck called the Sixchex and was recently told about Fournier's 'multi-card' but I haven't been able to find where I can buy it. I know USPCC and Bicycle made domino decks in the past (I'm very pumped by the domino deck I have from 1907 by them) and I also found letter games on cards, but never a deck that put them all together in one clean design.

Last year I took the plunge and self-published with USPCC the Flex Deck. I guess this also makes me a designer.

I'm currently working on variations of the top of the cards design and box so am especially interested in what makes a great design for these two aspects of a deck. I think my favorite back design that I own are the red/gold Luxx Palme. The design really impresses me when fanned out.

If anyone knows of any other multi-purpose decks or examples of their favorite top designs, I'd greatly appreciate any insights or help.

Looking forward to learning more from this community!

Best,
Mike
Mike Dummeyer
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Re: Hi from Stamford, CT
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2019, 12:11:45 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Hey, Mike,

Welcome to the forum!  Glad to have you here.

I remember there was a fellow in the UK who created a deck in a very unique manner - there were "International Standard" indices, indicating suit and rank, and there were photo-realistic images of other forms of randomization.  It included things like the various d20-game dice, a coin toss, random compass directions, dominoes, etc.  He packed a LOT of randomizers into his deck, and did so in a way that was very appealing-looking at the same time.  In essence, for any game that required some kind of randomizing, or certain kinds of game pieces, you could use this deck for it reasonably well.  If you search around on the Playing Card Plethora, you'll almost certainly find the posts about his deck.  I think it was also funded by a Kickstarter project, so you might find it there as well.

Good luck on your design - I look forward to reading more about it.
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Re: Hi from Stamford, CT
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2019, 08:55:43 AM »
 

flexdeck_mike

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Thanks so much Don!

I just placed my order for the dice deck on drivethrucards (not sure how long till they arrive). Always on the lookout for the other multi-purpose decks out there.

I hope to post some progress images on the design board soon for what we're thinking for the next versions of the Flex Deck will look like. Attached is our current design - if you have any feedback I'm always hoping we can improve.

Best,
Mike Dummeyer
Purveyor of Flex Deck Playing Cards
 

Re: Hi from Stamford, CT
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2019, 04:42:00 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Thanks so much Don!

I just placed my order for the dice deck on drivethrucards (not sure how long till they arrive). Always on the lookout for the other multi-purpose decks out there.

I hope to post some progress images on the design board soon for what we're thinking for the next versions of the Flex Deck will look like. Attached is our current design - if you have any feedback I'm always hoping we can improve.

Best,

If you want this deck to be used for letter games and it doesn't require 100% random letters, you might want to consider a letter distribution that's more in line with how frequently the letters appear in actual words.  For example, there's a reason why there's nine "A" tiles and twelve "E" tiles in a game of Scrabble, but only one "Z", one "Q" and two blank tiles that can be used as wild cards to represent any letter - those more frequently-appearing tiles are for letters more frequently appearing in actual English words and sentences, while the less-frequent ones are a lot less common.

Now, a Scrabble game has 100 tiles, which does a decent job of letter distribution - while a single deck alone wouldn't be enough to achieve this, perhaps a two-deck set would?

You might even consider doing a little research to see if the Scrabble letter distribution is still adequate to the needs of modern English, in terms of the letter distribution - remember, the game was created in 1938, and there's a lot of new words in the dictionary since them.  You could find out if some tweaks to the distribution are needed or desired and add those tweaks to your set.  Just be very careful about adding a points system - I would imagine the lawyers over at Hasbro (the current owners of the game's IP) might have something to say about it.  The fact that yours would be a multi-function card game and not a tile game would work in your favor, but do you really have the resources to defend that in court?

Hasbro's already trying (at least as of 2014) to claim copyrights on the official word lists and dictionaries used by tournament Scrabble players.  The dictionary is one thing, but a word list?  I would think that would be a little tougher to defend - it's like trying to patent the fork or claim copyright over the alphabet.  But Hasbro's going to try, and they have the lawyers on payroll to do so...
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Re: Hi from Stamford, CT
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2019, 05:59:12 AM »
 

flexdeck_mike

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Thanks so much Don! I did try and mimic letter frequency to the vernacular with more common letters appearing more frequently. We do have 4 A's, E's but only 1 Z and Q, etc. I'll need to double check to make sure they are still on par with a 2019/20 vocabulary for future prints.

I had no idea about the list of words IP Hasbro is trying to secure! That sure seems like a stretch but I'd imagine they have a few lawyers who are flexible enough to try and make that claim.

I opted to place the harder to use letters on the higher index card's as a secondary scoring mechanism if needed. The A's, E's and etc are on the 2's and 3's while the Z, K and B are on the face card and aces. Individual scores on the letters really cluttered the layout and as you said, seemed risky considering IP concerns. I've never used another brand name to market the Flex Deck and will not in the future so I hope we can all play nice in this sandbox.

Do you know of any card games focused on letters that are in the common domain?

Best,

Mike Dummeyer
Purveyor of Flex Deck Playing Cards
 

Re: Hi from Stamford, CT
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2019, 02:40:52 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Thanks so much Don! I did try and mimic letter frequency to the vernacular with more common letters appearing more frequently. We do have 4 A's, E's but only 1 Z and Q, etc. I'll need to double check to make sure they are still on par with a 2019/20 vocabulary for future prints.

I had no idea about the list of words IP Hasbro is trying to secure! That sure seems like a stretch but I'd imagine they have a few lawyers who are flexible enough to try and make that claim.

I opted to place the harder to use letters on the higher index card's as a secondary scoring mechanism if needed. The A's, E's and etc are on the 2's and 3's while the Z, K and B are on the face card and aces. Individual scores on the letters really cluttered the layout and as you said, seemed risky considering IP concerns. I've never used another brand name to market the Flex Deck and will not in the future so I hope we can all play nice in this sandbox.

Do you know of any card games focused on letters that are in the common domain?

Best,

I don't know of other games that use letters on cards.  I'm pretty sure there's out there, though - I just don't know of them, and there's also a good chance that they're out of print.  Bear in mind, when researching older games, that certain elements (such as the alphabet itself, ranks and suits of standard playing cards, etc.) are completely fair game, while other elements (scoring methods, game mechanics, names, etc.) might be covered under copyright, trademark or patent law.  I know a bit less about patents, but regarding copyrights, pretty much anything prior to 1924 (in this country!) is considered public domain, as are select works whose copyright holders allowed the rights to expire, back in the days when they had to be renewed.  These days, though, not only are copyrights in effect from the moment of creation, they don't expire for many, many years - it's either:
  • 70 years after the death of the author
  • If it was "work for hire," whichever of the following is shorter:
    • 120 years after creation or
    • 95 years after publication
It's kind of a bastardization of the original intent of copyright, which was to allow the author of the work some opportunity to profit from his or her creation, but to eventually allow it to become part of the public domain, where others may add to it, improve upon it, etc. while it's still culturally relevant.  But courtesy of musician and Republican US Congressman Sonny Bono and the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act of 1998, nicknamed the "Mickey Mouse Protection Act" but its detractors, copyright now last long enough to protect works well past the point that the majority of people alive at the time it expires will care.  It's nickname derives from how the Walt Disney Company lobbied to get it passed, because if it hadn't, the first film appearance of Mickey Mouse, in the short film "Steamboat Willie," would now be in the public domain, meaning Mickey himself would also be public domain.  His wife and successor in Congress, Mary Bono, actually said that Sonny wanted to make copyright protection last forever, but her staff informed her that this was unconstitutional.  The law was named after him posthumously - he perished in a skiing accident earlier in the same year the law was passed.

But I'm getting off the point here.  Just poke around, make sure what you're doing isn't messing around with someone else's IP, and when it comes time to make a finished product, check with an IP lawyer to be sure you're not going to get sued by someone.  If you were making an ordinary pack of International Standard playing cards or a set of plain old alphabet cards, I'd say you're good to go, but you're attempting to create or invent a new thing, and it's a thing that someone else might have created/invented either in whole or in part before you.  It would suck to see your idea crash and burn over a lawsuit from some company you never heard of before because of some game they own the rights to from dozens of years ago.
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