Author (Read 39479 times)

Aaron · « **Reply #50 on:** January 04, 2012, 01:05:54 AM »

Quote from: RandyButterfield on January 04, 2012, 12:05:00 AM

Here's my solution to the border dilemma, a bit of a "Hybrid" of the Gold and Silver.

Those are nice but my personal favorite is the origional posted designs. I am a magician and a collector. I have plenty of decks I can use for magic. I would want this deck just to stare at, the detail is amazing and I think you should use the origional design. But in the end do what you like the most, everyone is going to have a different opinion and you wont be able to please everyone. I will back this deck no matter what colours are used.

RandyButterfield · « **Reply #51 on:** January 04, 2012, 01:14:51 AM »

Quote from: Aaron on January 04, 2012, 01:05:54 AM

Quote from: RandyButterfield on January 04, 2012, 12:05:00 AM
Here's my solution to the border dilemma, a bit of a "Hybrid" of the Gold and Silver.
Those are nice but my personal favorite is the origional posted designs. I am a magician and a collector. I have plenty of decks I can use for magic. I would want this deck just to stare at, the detail is amazing and I think you should use the origional design. But in the end do what you like the most, everyone is going to have a different opinion and you wont be able to please everyone. I will back this deck no matter what colours are used.

Yeah, now that I compare back and forth between the new and original designs I'm not completely thrilled on the new look. I'm going to lay low for a while, concentrate on the rest of the Court Cards and come to a decision during that time. Thank you everyone for your comments. I will take them all into consideration but I'm not going to put out a design I'm not 100 percent satisfied with.

Randy

Don Boyer · « **Reply #52 on:** January 04, 2012, 08:49:35 AM »

Quote from: RandyButterfield on January 04, 2012, 01:14:51 AM

Quote from: Aaron on January 04, 2012, 01:05:54 AM
Quote from: RandyButterfield on January 04, 2012, 12:05:00 AM
Here's my solution to the border dilemma, a bit of a "Hybrid" of the Gold and Silver.
Those are nice but my personal favorite is the origional posted designs. I am a magician and a collector. I have plenty of decks I can use for magic. I would want this deck just to stare at, the detail is amazing and I think you should use the origional design. But in the end do what you like the most, everyone is going to have a different opinion and you wont be able to please everyone. I will back this deck no matter what colours are used.

Yeah, now that I compare back and forth between the new and original designs I'm not completely thrilled on the new look. I'm going to lay low for a while, concentrate on the rest of the Court Cards and come to a decision during that time. Thank you everyone for your comments. I will take them all into consideration but I'm not going to put out a design I'm not 100 percent satisfied with.

Randy

I like the newer design. With a deck of playing cards, practicality and artistry have to work together or you risk creating a boutique deck with a more limited appeal.

I'm also not a fan of the one-way spade pip in the center. Consider what Theory11 did for the JAQK deck: it was a one-way design in the center, which they shrank a bit in size and replicated on the other side of the axis to make it a two-way design. The one-way isn't that subtle - it's dead-center in the design - and as a poker deck a one-way design just doesn't fly. As a magician's deck, if the one-way mark isn't VERY subtle, it will get spotted by an observant spectator and ruin the performance. Also, the best magician's one-way marks are on the edge of the design, closer to the upper-left/lower-right corners, making them visible in fans and spreads if you know what to look for.

Honestly, not a single one of your designs you've presented here is lacking in beauty in any way. But we want to see this deck make it to the sales and distribution stage rather than stay on a designer's desktop. Make it appeal to a larger audience without sacrificing design ideals and your Kickstarter project will have a stronger chance of hitting its goal and then some.

PoundFFFFFF · « **Reply #53 on:** January 04, 2012, 03:53:57 PM »

I really don't know why people are getting upset over a one-way back... I can't see a spectator giving a damn unless you've got a reputation for doing tricks with one-way backs. In which case you should revise your routines and learn some sleights, you lazy ponce. Seriously, after you do something like a sandwich or some kind of card to impossible location, as if the spectator will go "Ah, the back is one-way, that's how you did it." Plus, with all the crazy card designs nowadays you can hardly tell if it's symmetrical or not, forget the spectators themselves. Not like this is a dose-style back anyway.

As for practicality... I honestly don't find a single kickstarted deck to be of any practical purpose to this point..

Evan · « **Reply #54 on:** January 04, 2012, 04:13:16 PM »

Wait... are the 2 decks the same besides the back design and box?

lordlupus · « **Reply #55 on:** January 04, 2012, 04:36:20 PM »

Quote from: MagicAddictz on January 04, 2012, 04:13:16 PM

Wait... are the 2 decks the same besides the back design and box?

His initial proposed design has the same fronts but different backs and boxes for both decks.

Currently I am not so sure

I like his new proposed front of the gold deck where both red and black fronts have gold border. But I am confused why there was a proposed design where both backs had changed to have gold border and silver element. I always liked his initial gold/blue and silver/red backs as they were.

RandyButterfield · « **Reply #56 on:** January 04, 2012, 05:05:39 PM »

Alright, I couldn't sleep last night thinking about this whole border issue so I ended up working on it quite a bit and I'm very happy with this solution and think it covers most people's concerns. The new border is the same with every FACE and BACK and it is a softer Gold color with a few hints of Silver. This keeps the Black cards from changing and let's the Red cards change very limited. I think the little bit of Gold gives the Red cards a little more depth also.

MagicAddictz - I don't want to take the chance with a huge Kickstarter goal to print 2 completely different decks. So yes, as of right now they are the same face cards with 2 different Backs and 2 different Tuck Boxes. If the USPCC won't give me a good quote to run the job 1/2 and 1/2 between the 2 face cards then it will be JUST the Blue/Gold Back and Tuck Box.

I also got rid of the one-way back. The circle works just as nicely so that was fine with me!

thanks, Randy

RandyButterfield · « **Reply #57 on:** January 04, 2012, 05:07:09 PM »

Aces with new border.

RandyButterfield · « **Reply #58 on:** January 04, 2012, 05:08:00 PM »

Queens with new border

Don Boyer · « **Reply #59 on:** January 04, 2012, 05:19:09 PM »

Quote from: PoundFFFFFF on January 04, 2012, 03:53:57 PM

I really don't know why people are getting upset over a one-way back... I can't see a spectator giving a damn unless you've got a reputation for doing tricks with one-way backs. In which case you should revise your routines and learn some sleights, you lazy ponce. Seriously, after you do something like a sandwich or some kind of card to impossible location, as if the spectator will go "Ah, the back is one-way, that's how you did it." Plus, with all the crazy card designs nowadays you can hardly tell if it's symmetrical or not, forget the spectators themselves. Not like this is a dose-style back anyway.

As for practicality... I honestly don't find a single kickstarted deck to be of any practical purpose to this point..

The one-way back was a minor deal for magicians - some would probably even use it - but for serious card players, a one-way deck is a real no-no. Granted, I don't see the WSOP adopting this design as their own any time soon, but some people love having themed poker nights and the like.

I LOVE the new design, and it appears to solve all the design issues I was talking about, among some others. Let's get this deck made, already!

EDIT: Holy crap, the entire BACK is one way! The lighting effect gives away which direction the card is turned! Now THAT'S a subtle one-way back!

Aaron · « **Reply #60 on:** January 04, 2012, 05:20:50 PM »

Quote from: RandyButterfield on January 04, 2012, 05:05:39 PM

Alright, I couldn't sleep last night thinking about this whole border issue so I ended up working on it quite a bit and I'm very happy with this solution and think it covers most people's concerns. The new border is the same with every FACE and BACK and it is a softer Gold color with a few hints of Silver. This keeps the Black cards from changing and let's the Red cards change very limited. I think the little bit of Gold gives the Red cards a little more depth also.

MagicAddictz - I don't want to take the chance with a huge Kickstarter goal to print 2 completely different decks. So yes, as of right now they are the same face cards with 2 different Backs and 2 different Tuck Boxes. If the USPCC won't give me a good quote to run the job 1/2 and 1/2 between the 2 face cards then it will be JUST the Blue/Gold Back and Tuck Box.

I also got rid of the one-way back. The circle works just as nicely so that was fine with me!

thanks, Randy

I really like that those look amazing. The border is perect. also I see you got rid of the 1-way design. I think you should maybe stick a diamond in the middle there and see how it looks. Because then it would not be 1-way but still have the design in the middle

lordlupus · « **Reply #61 on:** January 04, 2012, 05:34:27 PM »

Quote from: RandyButterfield on January 04, 2012, 05:05:39 PM

Alright, I couldn't sleep last night thinking about this whole border issue so I ended up working on it quite a bit and I'm very happy with this solution and think it covers most people's concerns. The new border is the same with every FACE and BACK and it is a softer Gold color with a few hints of Silver. This keeps the Black cards from changing and let's the Red cards change very limited. I think the little bit of Gold gives the Red cards a little more depth also.

MagicAddictz - I don't want to take the chance with a huge Kickstarter goal to print 2 completely different decks. So yes, as of right now they are the same face cards with 2 different Backs and 2 different Tuck Boxes. If the USPCC won't give me a good quote to run the job 1/2 and 1/2 between the 2 face cards then it will be JUST the Blue/Gold Back and Tuck Box.

I also got rid of the one-way back. The circle works just as nicely so that was fine with me!

thanks, Randy

Excellent! Well done addressing all the concerns that were raised in this thread. The new border looks fine.

I can't wait to see the design of the Jokers.

RandyButterfield · « **Reply #62 on:** January 04, 2012, 05:43:18 PM »

Quote from: Good@Sabacc on January 04, 2012, 05:19:09 PM

EDIT: Holy crap, the entire BACK is one way! The lighting effect gives away which direction the card is turned! Now THAT'S a subtle one-way back!

Yep. I was very careful to make sure the actual border and the PIPS, Indices, Queens and such were two-way even with the lighting but I figured it would be nice to have the backs have that little touch to it. The Blue and Red scrolls and Gold and Silver scrolls at the top and bottom are two-way, it's just the Center pattern and the 2 half-circle discs.

Randy

Aaron · « **Reply #63 on:** January 04, 2012, 06:29:04 PM »

Quote from: RandyButterfield on January 04, 2012, 05:43:18 PM

Quote from: Good@Sabacc on January 04, 2012, 05:19:09 PM
EDIT: Holy crap, the entire BACK is one way! The lighting effect gives away which direction the card is turned! Now THAT'S a subtle one-way back!

Yep. I was very careful to make sure the actual border and the PIPS, Indices, Queens and such were two-way even with the lighting but I figured it would be nice to have the backs have that little touch to it. The Blue and Red scrolls and Gold and Silver scrolls at the top and bottom are two-way, it's just the Center pattern and the 2 half-circle discs.

Randy

That is awesome. I cant wait until these are made. When do you plan on getting these on KS?

Derek · « **Reply #64 on:** January 04, 2012, 07:24:24 PM »

The deck looks incredible!!! I'll be a backer for sure

dee1orean · « **Reply #65 on:** January 04, 2012, 07:33:58 PM »

I'm liking those gold borders!

Evan · « **Reply #66 on:** January 04, 2012, 08:16:50 PM »

I love the design and it looks great.... but in my opinion, having 2 decks that have the exact same fronts, is pointless and makes me not want to buy the deck. It just shows lack of effort. I know that you have put a ton of effort into these cards but having the same fronts just doesn't show it.

loldudex2 · « **Reply #67 on:** January 04, 2012, 08:25:50 PM »

Quote from: MagicAddictz on January 04, 2012, 08:16:50 PM

I love the design and it looks great.... but in my opinion, having 2 decks that have the exact same fronts, is pointless and makes me not want to buy the deck. It just shows lack of effort. I know that you have put a ton of effort into these cards but having the same fronts just doesn't show it.

Really? I think as long as they are released together it is no problem. He is offering an option. Now I see if he release one this year, and one next year it could show not putting effort, but if he is working on them at the same time I think it shows more effort.

dmbaggs · « **Reply #68 on:** January 04, 2012, 08:59:37 PM »

Quote from: MagicAddictz on January 04, 2012, 08:16:50 PM

I love the design and it looks great.... but in my opinion, having 2 decks that have the exact same fronts, is pointless and makes me not want to buy the deck. It just shows lack of effort. I know that you have put a ton of effort into these cards but having the same fronts just doesn't show it.

Yeah I don't really see that at all. Maybe if he put out 15 versions in every color in the rainbow. Two different colors is the norm. Bicycle, Tally Ho, Bee, and more. Most of those have even more than just two colors. How many different colors of artifice do you have? What about Smoke and Mirrors?

I think that both of these look awesome and the colors give a different feel to each deck. Still stoked!

RandyButterfield · « **Reply #69 on:** January 04, 2012, 11:15:23 PM »

Quote from: MagicAddictz on January 04, 2012, 08:16:50 PM

I love the design and it looks great.... but in my opinion, having 2 decks that have the exact same fronts, is pointless and makes me not want to buy the deck. It just shows lack of effort. I know that you have put a ton of effort into these cards but having the same fronts just doesn't show it.

My main reason for having the 2 backs is the custom Poker Sets. Poker Sets come with 2 decks of cards (usually 1 blue and 1 red). This way one deck can be shuffled as the other deck is in play. I thought it would be cool to have a unique take on the standard blue and red poker decks.

The Kickstarter campaign won't force people to pledge for an entire set or the same number of each back color. If someone wants 3 Red decks and 0 Blue, just pledge for 3 decks and message me through Kickstarter with your deck color breakdown.

The Poker Sets are going to be setup in a similar way. The chips will be Black, Gold, Red and Silver. I will have a default breakdown for each of the different sets available (ex. 500 Chip Set = 225 Black, 150 Red, 75 Gold, 50 Silver). Anybody pledging for a set (or single chips) will be able to message me through Kickstarter and send me their Chip color breakdown they would like, if they don't want the default breakdown.

thanks, Randy

phantom1412 · « **Reply #70 on:** January 05, 2012, 03:10:37 AM »

You will have poker chips too?
Can you show us pics of those?

Don Boyer · « **Reply #71 on:** January 05, 2012, 06:03:48 AM »

Randy, I think doing such customization on the deck rewards will be complex enough, but to allow it for the chips is a recipe for insanity. Will you find a chip maker that will sell you, for example, 10,000 black, 4,537 red, 100,832 white and 15,365 silver? And are you up to the task of all that chip organizing and shipping?

If you want to go this complex, consider using an order fulfillment service. It may or may not cost more in cash, but it will definitely cost less in hairs pulled out of your head...

RandyButterfield · « **Reply #72 on:** January 05, 2012, 11:37:29 AM »

The designs for the Poker Chips are still in progress. I'll show them when I get them finished.

As long as you order over 5,000 for the total number of chips you can get any quantity of the different
colors you need. I am concerned about organizing and shipping the sets. My wife will help out a lot.
I saw that Russell Kercheval used a fulfillment service with his Americana Decks so I was going to look
into fulfillment services when I'm further along on everything else.

thanks, Randy

IAmTheChin · « **Reply #73 on:** January 05, 2012, 12:43:47 PM »

Absolutely love the idea of the border. Would warrant a little caution though. Even at Q1, the minimum requirement for quality control is 1/16" meaning that if their cut is offset slightly, you'll be getting a noticeable difference in the left and right circles. A solution to this could be to accommodate that buffer zone into the circle.

Basically right now I'm seeing the circles end at the edges directly at the top and bottom tangents right? If it's offset, you'll be getting the beginning of a 'C-shape' on one end which is what will be the most noticeable part. But if the cards are laid out so that the edges intersect before the top and bottom tangents, giving yourself that buffer zone, then even with the offsets your worst case scenario is a slightly larger semicircle that no one will even notice.

Btw, love the blue. More of a blue and silver guy myself, but either way, looking solid.

RandyButterfield · « **Reply #74 on:** January 05, 2012, 10:41:50 PM »

Quote from: IAmTheChin on January 05, 2012, 12:43:47 PM

Even at Q1, the minimum requirement for quality control is 1/16" meaning that if their cut is offset slightly, you'll be getting a noticeable difference in the left and right circles. A solution to this could be to accommodate that buffer zone into the circle.

Thanks for the tip Chin! I hadn't thought about that. I shifted the discs a little towards the trim edges.

Randy