ORNATE Playing Cards Preview

[RandyButterfield]

I was planning on waiting a couple more weeks to introduce myself and my deck design, but after I saw Encarded's Tendril very nice preview I figured I better do it now so no one thought I later "borrowed" the inclusion of a border and background pattern on the face cards.


Hello everyone,

My name is Randy Butterfield. I'm a designer with Motive Marketing and I live in Indianapolis, IN with my wife Susan, our 4 year old daughter and 2 year old son. I have been working on my design for ORNATE Playing Cards for a couple months now. With work and the family I usually only get a couple hours to work on the cards late at night, hence the name Midnight Card Company.

I have lingered around on this great forum for a few months now and have a lot of respect for the regulars and their opinions. I will have a Kickstarter campaign up for the cards probably in February or March. I still have some court cards and the Jokers to finish plus I want to do an animation video / trailer.

I have been a fan of playing cards since I was a kid and have always loved great packaging design, so when I was introduced to Kickstarter and saw the Revision 1 Deck in mid-campaign I was hooked. That and the Americana Deck are two of my favorite custom decks I have seen. Both created by fellow Indianapolis residents even!

I have posted the Tuck Box (haven't touched the legal flap yet), the Back and a few of the Face Cards. The cards have kept me pretty busy so I haven't had much time to lockup any domain names or attempt to get any quotes from the USPCC or any other business-related necessities. I hope everyone likes the look of it!

thanks, Randy

[KPopFever605]

The deck looks great Randy, I will be a sure-fire backer all the way. The design really looks great, and vintage somewhat. I am guessing that there'll be two versions, right?

[Evan]

  OMG this deck is incredible!!!
I'm just hoping these are 2 different decks because if not, the cards don't match well.
The detail and artwork is just incredible!
Amazing job man!

[Kanped]

Really, guys?  I think this version is great; the red and black printing for red and black cards works great.  I would say that the back looks very 'Artifice' but not in a copying kind of way, just reminiscent (and why not?  It's a great back).  I love the pip layout; off kilter but obviously well thought out and designed (unlike the Tunstene).  Beautiful shading on everything.  Plus, you've actually been a little bit creative with the border, having a design element extend beyond it.  I wish more people would do that.

My only concern is how they'll look after they're printed.  They're so vibrant off the software but real world problems often seem to cause things to fade.  I guess that's down to what the USPCC can do.

[sinsandman]

The deck is beyond amazing so far. Keep up the great work and you have me as a backer.

[loldudex2]

This deck is incredible. So much talent has been coming out in such little time. You will go far with this deck, and in all your future endeavors in the card buisness.

[moonexe]

I'll have to agree with the first two comments, although the black and red backgrounds can work, the silver and copper borders shouldn't be part of the same deck. The border of the face should definitely be the same color as the one on the back.

That being said, it is by far the most impressive design we've seen for a while.

[Emmanuel]

Your skills are amazing, I will definitely back you!

[austin]

Yeah, great job on this deck!

What MagicAddictz and KPopFever said though, I hope this is two decks not just one
The deck looks great and is very well designed.

[dee1orean]

Very Nice, I'd definately back your kickstarter campaign.

[RandyButterfield]

Thanks for the great comments! It's really been a blast working on these.

The plan is to have a set with 2 different backs (Blue/Gold, Red/Silver).
Each deck will have the same Red/Silver and Black/Gold Face Cards.

I went back and forth on the different borders and at the beginning I had the Reds also have the Gold Border. It didn't look right with the Silver PIPS and Indices. With the Reds having the Gold Border, Gold PIPS and Gold Indices they looked good with the Red background but they didn't have that nice contrast as Red and Silver does. I knew I was taking a chance with the 2 different borders but I figured I would go for it and see what happened.

Another reasoning is I noticed a lot of the more minimal decks have very subtle differences between the Red and Black suits. I've been playing Poker for years (the Gaff Cards will be Poker related) and it's nice when you're using a deck that has rich contrast between the suits so you can register what you have in your hand quickly.

I don't know much about Magic, but I figured the Red Suits could be used with the Red/Silver Back and the Black Suits could be used with the Blue/Gold Back.

thanks, Randy

[danktrees]

i'm in, let me know when u put it up on kickstarter

[MrLukeCarroll]

Wow amazing job, you have deffinetly secured a backer with me

[Evan]

Looks amazing! But the red in the back design looks kinda orange to me.
Also, why is the front of the red box, a diamond instead of a spade? Its not a bad thing... I'm just wondering.

But you can count on me as a backer!

[phantom1412]

Awesome design!
Count me in

[dmbaggs]

Wow... I was not on for a little while and I come back to this! I'm speechless! These are awesome!


I would say amazing job for such little time, but I'm sure you've put in countless hours. Nonetheless it is still incredible! I really like the colors and the court cards looks superb. The crowns on the queens with the suits look really nice. I will be behind this one all the way!

[Lushbob]

Wow. You can definitely count me as a backer. The design on these cards is amazing. It's so beautiful and intricate. Honestly, I'm almost speechless. Great job, especially as it's your first deck!

[Paul Carpenter]

Very impressive Randy, well done. This just goes to show that the aesthetic quality of a deck of cards can truly be anything dreamable. I personally tend to go to the simpler, so Ornate is a little "visually heavy" for me but the detail is wonderful. I'll pick up a deck for sure. Hope you can do the same for me.

Independent designers can make some amazing things. Who needs big companies?

[loldudex2]

I like the very subtle one way back design.

[Evan]

I like the very subtle one way back design.

I just figured it out too! Its pretty easy to find if you are examining the cards but no one would see it if they weren't looking for it.

[Knobz1]

Very sharp and elegant looking cards you created Randy.  You can definitely count me in as a backer as well.  Looks like you already have a growing number of backers/supporters.  I wish you the best on this project and am looking forward to its success.

[RandyButterfield]

xmetal - I will definitely be pledging for some Tendril and Curator decks!

Looks amazing! But the red in the back design looks kinda orange to me.
Also, why is the front of the red box, a diamond instead of a spade? Its not a bad thing... I'm just wondering.

Yep. The gradient for the Red Back goes from a rich red to a yellow/orange in the center. I have on my notes of changes to add some more Magenta to the gradient to make it less orange, I just haven't squeezed it in yet.

I actually like it going from red to pink in the center (much like the Blue Back going from a rich blue to light Cyan) but I thought it wouldn't be a good idea to have a back card containg Pink in what seems to be a fairly male dominated world of Playing Cards.

As for the Diamond on the Red Tuck Box - Why not? I know the history of the Spade with the English taxes and Vietnam scare tactics but I figured the other suits needed their props as well. That's why all of the Aces have large center suits, not just the Ace of Spades.

thanks, Randy

[Evan]

Could you post some more pics when you have them? I really love seeing all of these cards. Its such a cool looking deck!

[Billywiz]

I like the very subtle one way back design.

I just figured it out too! Its pretty easy to find if you are examining the cards but no one would see it if they weren't looking for it.

I was about to post the samething, when fanned or spread the one way back would be hard to detect unless you where looking for it. This is a amazing design and I would be happy to back it.
 
 
Billy.

[Aaron]

These are beautiful cards. I love them and will be pleging for at least a dozen of these they are amazing and I love them. Keep up te awesome work!

[RandyButterfield]

It looks like a lot of you like the detail work so I'm posting a couple larger images so you can see them clearer.

[RandyButterfield]

Queen of Hearts

[RandyButterfield]

This is probably the last image I'll be posting for a while. I really wasn't ready to introduce these and need to get back to work on the unfinished cards. The image below is a Poster showing all of the completed Backs and Faces (Queens, Ace of Spades and Ace of Diamonds are placeholders for the unfinished Jacks, Kings, Jokers and Gaff Cards). Enlarged versions of the Tuck Boxes are also on the Poster. For the Kickstarter campaign I plan to have Uncut Sheets, the below Poster and Glycee Prints of any Back or Face available for pledges. Every one of the Backs and Faces are built hi res at 18"w x 24"h.

thanks, Randy

[loldudex2]

Is deck is insane. The detail is so amazing, I'd say it ties with the Seasons decks for the most detailed, elegant, and beautiful deck to come out.

[moonexe]

I love the ace of hearts! And I can't wait to see the jacks, kings, and jokers.

[xela]

Because I want you to succeed as much as you can, and not simply succeed, I won't be leaving this thread without criticism.

Cons:
- This deck lacks practicality due to the borders. This is by all means an artist's deck, kind of like Lance's Actuators. I desperately want to see a version with white borders, and I daresay I would pick up at least a brick of those.
- The amount of ink on the cards will only allow for the thickest stock, and even then there will be handling issues. Bee Casino grade is the only thing that would work for these. USPCC won't be able to help you too much with stocks though, they have no idea what they have to offer. Bee Casino is their thickest, so it's the safest bet.
- With the USPCC printing press, a lot of your detail will be lost. It may be project-breaking, or it may be no big deal at all. You'll only know by ordering their physical proofs, which are $250 per deck. Don't shy away, the decks I see produced that skip the proof stage end up looking like trash.
- The name, in my opinion, is terrible. Yes, it's a very ornate design, but it sounds so bland and blunt. Get creative!
- I'm not 100% sure what the theme of the cards is. It looks almost steam-punky on the spade/club Aces. It definitely has a degree of "robotic" or "sci-fi" to it on the "black" cards. The "red" cards, on the other hand, are just floral-style. I personally adore the red cards, but not the black cards as much.

Take these suggestions as you will, and don't feel for a second that I am demanding them. I hope you read over what I wrote and do with the opinion as you will. Remember, even if something I said sounds outrageous, at least 1/100 people will agree. Ask yourself if the effort needed to fix or change something is worth gaining those customers, and have the potential to lose others. This is the thought process that drives every change I make to a deck of cards.

Pros:
- The backs are easily my favorite from any deck I've seen in my life. Again, that border ruins it for me, but I'm very particular about that kind of stuff. The actual design is amazing.
- The detail on the face cards is beautiful, and it is clear that someone put a lot of passion into their creation.
- Wonderful court cards, I am glad you took the time to make them customized.
- The contrast on the red cards is stunning.
- The pips look fantastic!

[Don Boyer]

I'll toss in a few comments.


First: it's a gorgeous deck design.  Looking forward to seeing the Jacks, Kings, Jokers.


I think the "black" deck would actually look better as a blue deck - use the same blue background on the fronts that you're using on the backs.  It would make the pips stand out more on that deck.  If you really want the blackish background, consider brightening the pips and indices.


I agree with Alex about "Ornate" being more of a description than a name here.  There must be countless good names you can use that are better than Ornate and not in use.  I like using a woman's name for this one - like "Victoria".  They look like Victoriana/steampunk, so why not?  If not that, then maybe "Charlotte" or "Caroline" or "Valerie" - men name their cars after women, why not their playing cards?  It would evoke thoughts of Lady Luck - even "Lady Luck" would be an awesome name, though it may already be in use!  Perhaps "Milady" - the British contraction of "My Lady".


There's a bit of a disconnect on the typefaces.  The "Ornate" typeface definitely evokes steampunk/Victoriana.  But then you have that "worm" typeface used on the Ace of Spades and on the deck box for the smaller print - something straight out of the 1970s, to my eyes.  I'd say stick with Victoriana and find another era-suitable typeface.  But if you don't want that, then match the worm typeface with a more modern typeface for the name.

[Kanped]

Perhaps "Milady" - the British contraction of "My Lady".

I think it's just written as 'M'Lady'.  It's usually butlers and the like say it.  I dunno, I like the name and there's already a good amount of buzz around it; I feel that changing it at this stage could make it loose some stream  I don't think the name is massively important, anyway.  While not as functional for magic as pure white borders, I think the borders here are beautiful and unique and I think that's more important.  I think too many decks are sacrificing design and creativity for conformity to what magicians want; I'd really like to see people break that cycle.  If you need to do a trick, use another deck.   Maybe there could be a 'Magician's Edition' with white borders and a bunch of gaff cards down the line but I think these borders are too pretty to let go.  I also think the black cards should stay black just to make it clear what suit you're holding; I'm pretty sure that both the red and black backgrounds will be on both editions of the deck for this purpose. 

[Don Boyer]

I've seen "M'Lady" and "Milady" in print.  Neither is wrong.


Having the alternative color-theme fronts based on suit with a single color-theme back does indeed render the deck very impractical, and not simply for magic.  You'd be able to spot red- and black-suited cards from the edge of the deck!


Keeping the same color border on both the front and the back makes the deck more practical.  If you plan on making the front border different than the back, make it so consistently through the whole deck (a la 1st ed. Artifice), or you have a pretty stack of pasteboards that aren't remotely practical as playing cards anymore.

[RandyButterfield]

Wow. We're getting serious now!

Alex and Good@Sabacc thanks for your comments. I will keep them in mind when I'm working on the deck.

My line of thinking is very similar to Kanped's post above. I thought about making the Black/Gold face cards Blue/Gold but I liked having the Black suits have a Black background. I knew I was taking a controversial chance with the borders but if it ends up being just an artist's deck in the end, I'm fine with that. I'm a little worried about the Gold and Silver bordered face cards together in one deck but I don't think they'll make the deck impractical for use. I doubt the different borders would be noticeable from the edge of the deck. I guess I'll find out with the first prototype deck. I definitely plan on at least 2 rounds of prototypes to get the colors and detail just right. Since they have to run each of the 56 cards for the prototype my plan is to change opacity levels for the background patterns and even detail levels in the borders. The prototype will look uneven but it will be the best shot of nailing down a good quality with the first or second prototype.

I'm not too worried about the deck name. I like Ornate because of it's bluntness. In my opinion it's no worse/better then names such as Arcane, Artifice, Infinity, Aristocrats, Sentinels….

I saw the USPCC printing press on that History Channel segment and unless that thing has a horrible newspaper-quality line screen of 75 lpi then the quality of printing should be fine. I noticed the Theory 11 Steampunk Back Card has some very small 4CProcess details. I ordered a couple decks to see how the quality stood up. If their detail came through then the USPCC presses shouldn't have any problem with the details on mine.

My first job out of college was at a print shop / prepress house and my job was to prep and troubleshoot files for print and then run the film separations. We never had to worry about high ink saturation and these jobs were being printed on a small-scale press that doesn't come close to the USPCC press. And this was back in the mid 90's! I don't see how playing card printing could be that much different than the rest of the print industry.

Just in case I will try to get the thickest paper I can. I did build the Ornate Black CMYK build at a pretty standard saturation at 30, 30, 30, 100 and that's only in the dark corners. The majority of the Black is only a 25, 25, 25, 90 build that should be fine with any printing press.

The thing I'm most worried about is the trimming of the cards. Watching the History Channel segment I was impressed with everything in their setup except for the trimming. I couldn't believe they were being punched out by an actual person! With today's technology they should have a large diecut that punches out all 56 cards on a press sheet at once. That would minimalize mis aligned cuts by a great deal. No wonder they have uneven border problems!

thanks,
Randy

[danktrees]

I've read some replies as to the borders and design of the cards lacking practicality. Can I get some clarification on what that is referring to? Do you mean that it can't be used for magic etc.? Cuz as randy said, he's not a practitioner and did not design this deck for that purpose. I believe he just wanted to make a beautiful deck and people can use it however they see fit. So if that's the goal then I think he has achieved it.

[loldudex2]

About the mis-aligned borders and such, I have heard from many people that getting a deck standard cut usually has the most centered cards. From personal experience, I don't know, but throughout watching reviews on decks, people say traditionally cut cards are usually pretty centered. Plus, it makes faro shuffles amazingly easy. I'm not sure if it costs more to get cards traditionally cut (I wouldn't be surprised), but I would look into that option if I were you.

[moonexe]

I'm not a magician, and honestly couldn't care less about the impracticality in magic. To me, the different colors in the borders are actually a problem on the artistic level. I'm totally fine with the red and black backgrounds, but the borders being a different color would just completely break the smoothness of the deck. Think of flourishing, where everything is about visuals and suits/colors/values don't even matter in the slightest. Any move that involves the cards being spread with the faces visible would make it look like half the cards are from a different deck. The background can definitely pass as purely a suit distinction, but only if the borders are consistent throughout the deck. Have you tried using the silver border on the black suits? Maybe making the black a bit more blue-ish, but not completely blue, would help make it fit.

Also, as loldudex2 mentioned, a traditional cut is always a plus.

[CBJ]

Sorry I'm late to the party...

These look amazing!  And I really like the idea of the diamond pip on the front of the box.  Hopefully, if these go well, you'll release 2 more in the series with a club pip and a heart pip.

I do have to agree with some of the members on here... there something about the borders that is a little off to me.

Anyway, keep up the good work!

CBJ

[RandyButterfield]

I suppose this solution could work and get rid of the 2 different border colors. I'm missing the Gold already though! I think I might add some gold into some of the queen details. I'll have to mull it over tonight.

thanks, Randy

[loldudex2]

Here's my solution. Keep the red deck having JUST silver borders, and the blue deck JUST gold. I feel everyone wins there.

[danktrees]

wait what? I thought the blue deck only had gold borders from the beginning...?

[lordlupus]

I love the look of the cards and the overall design is beautiful. When I saw the design on 52cartes, I was blown away. I thought that the gold bordered front is for the gold/blue back and the silver bordered front is for the silver/red back.
 
Unfortunately there's where my only dislike (as others have mentioned) for the decks lies. You are going to have 2 distinctly different border colours for the black and the red cards in the same deck and, unfortunately, they will look the same in both decks with different back designs.
 
Perhaps you can consider Moon's and loludex2's advices? I feel that the borders should be the same colour on the front for each deck but I am not creative enough to suggest what the pips and indice colours should be to make it work. The current red front with silver border should maintain as it is for the red back and the black front with gold border should maintain as it is for the gold back. If you make this change, you will have 2 distinct deck designs (both back and front) and you can rename them Ornate Ruby and Ornate Sapphire or something.
 
Having 2 different back designs give you an opportunity to make 2 unique decks. Having the same front for both, to me, is a wasted opportunity to make them so much more appealing.
 
Just my humble non-magician/non-flourisher/art-loving-collector's opinion 

[sinsandman]

I like everything except the obvious one way back. There is noting subtle about it....it is right there in the middle of the card.

[RandyButterfield]

Having 2 different back designs give you an opportunity to make 2 unique decks. Having the same front for both, to me, is a wasted opportunity to make them so much more appealing.

I think I hate the Blue/Silver look! For the backs I'm going back to what I originally posted - Blue/Gold and Red/Silver. I'll see what I can do with the Faces to be less problematic. When I first decided on the 2 different borders I figured most card players organize they're hands as soon as they look at them so it would minimize the "Rainbow" effect.

I would love to do the Red/Silver Back with Silver Border Faces and vice versa for the Blue/Gold Back but I know USPCC would ream me for a quote of 2 completely separate decks! The reason I'm trying to use the same Face Cards for both Backs is because I want to see if the USPCC would take a full print run and print half with each different back. With most print companies this would only incur a small extra cost, I'm not sure about USPCC yet.

I'm also working on some ORNATE Poker Chip designs and the plan is to start another Kickstarter campaign if/when the Playing Cards get fully funded. The second campaign would involve completely custom Poker Sets of 100, 300, 500, 750 or 1,000 (with the exception of the cases). The Chips would be Ceramic and the goal would be to include 1 Blue/Gold Deck and 1 Red/Silver Deck with each Poker Set.

thanks, Randy

[JMMJ]

I like the very subtle one way back design.

I just figured it out too! Its pretty easy to find if you are examining the cards but no one would see it if they weren't looking for it.

That is a really good one! It allows for quick identification unlike most of the ones from the major companies

P.S. When and where is this deck coming out, it looks fantastic?!

[dee1orean]

If you're missing the Gold, why not have both decks with gold borders, I think I'd rather both decks had gold borders than silver ones.

I like the poker set Idea!

[lordlupus]

Personally I feel that the front border colours should match the back metallic colour (gold for blue back, silver for red back)
 
If you can revise the colour of the pips/indice for the red cards in the blue/gold deck (copper? reddish gold? blue? red with silver outline?) and the colour of the pips/indice for the black cards in the red/silver deck (gunmetal? black with silver outline?), you will have distinct front corresponding to the distinctive backs.
 
Anyway it is your deck, your design. I learn from my experience working with agency designers is that sometimes they do not appreciate "creative" inputs provided by the suits
 
I am not sure about others, but I will not use a one-way back in a poker game, especially if I provide the deck and the one-way design is subtle. I will not use the decks as they are now with the one-way backs in a poker game where money is involved. Maybe in a poker game where the stake is whiskey shots, push-ups or clothing, but not money.
 
As for the Ornate chips, you have to consider that shipping cost for ceramic chips to international backers will be expensive because of the weight. As such you may not have as many backers for the chips as compared with the decks since custom chips is not really a collectible item (from what I know) to justify for us international buyers to pay a higher shipping cost for. Just for your considerations.

[RandyButterfield]

Here's my solution to the border dilemma, a bit of a "Hybrid" of the Gold and Silver.

[RandyButterfield]

A few face cards with the new Border.

[Aaron]

Here's my solution to the border dilemma, a bit of a "Hybrid" of the Gold and Silver.

Those are nice but my personal favorite is the origional posted designs. I am a magician and a collector. I have plenty of decks I can use for magic. I would want this deck just to stare at, the detail is amazing and I think you should use the origional design. But in the end do what you like the most, everyone is going to have a different opinion and you wont be able to please everyone. I will back this deck no matter what colours are used.

[RandyButterfield]

Here's my solution to the border dilemma, a bit of a "Hybrid" of the Gold and Silver.

Those are nice but my personal favorite is the origional posted designs. I am a magician and a collector. I have plenty of decks I can use for magic. I would want this deck just to stare at, the detail is amazing and I think you should use the origional design. But in the end do what you like the most, everyone is going to have a different opinion and you wont be able to please everyone. I will back this deck no matter what colours are used.

Yeah, now that I compare back and forth between the new and original designs I'm not completely thrilled on the new look. I'm going to lay low for a while, concentrate on the rest of the Court Cards and come to a decision during that time. Thank you everyone for your comments. I will take them all into consideration but I'm not going to put out a design I'm not 100 percent satisfied with.

Randy

[Don Boyer]

Here's my solution to the border dilemma, a bit of a "Hybrid" of the Gold and Silver.

Those are nice but my personal favorite is the origional posted designs. I am a magician and a collector. I have plenty of decks I can use for magic. I would want this deck just to stare at, the detail is amazing and I think you should use the origional design. But in the end do what you like the most, everyone is going to have a different opinion and you wont be able to please everyone. I will back this deck no matter what colours are used.

Yeah, now that I compare back and forth between the new and original designs I'm not completely thrilled on the new look. I'm going to lay low for a while, concentrate on the rest of the Court Cards and come to a decision during that time. Thank you everyone for your comments. I will take them all into consideration but I'm not going to put out a design I'm not 100 percent satisfied with.

Randy

I like the newer design.  With a deck of playing cards, practicality and artistry have to work together or you risk creating a boutique deck with a more limited appeal.


I'm also not a fan of the one-way spade pip in the center.  Consider what Theory11 did for the JAQK deck: it was a one-way design in the center, which they shrank a bit in size and replicated on the other side of the axis to make it a two-way design.  The one-way isn't that subtle - it's dead-center in the design - and as a poker deck a one-way design just doesn't fly.  As a magician's deck, if the one-way mark isn't VERY subtle, it will get spotted by an observant spectator and ruin the performance.  Also, the best magician's one-way marks are on the edge of the design, closer to the upper-left/lower-right corners, making them visible in fans and spreads if you know what to look for.


Honestly, not a single one of your designs you've presented here is lacking in beauty in any way.  But we want to see this deck make it to the sales and distribution stage rather than stay on a designer's desktop.  Make it appeal to a larger audience without sacrificing design ideals and your Kickstarter project will have a stronger chance of hitting its goal and then some.

[PoundFFFFFF]

  I really don't know why people are getting upset over a one-way back... I can't see a spectator giving a damn unless you've got a reputation for doing tricks with one-way backs. In which case you should revise your routines and learn some sleights, you lazy ponce. Seriously, after you do something like a sandwich or some kind of card to impossible location, as if the spectator will go "Ah, the back is one-way, that's how you did it." Plus, with all the crazy card designs nowadays you can hardly tell if it's symmetrical or not, forget the spectators themselves. Not like this is a dose-style back anyway.


  As for practicality... I honestly don't find a single kickstarted deck to be of any practical purpose to this point..

[Evan]

Wait... are the 2 decks the same besides the back design and box?

[lordlupus]

Wait... are the 2 decks the same besides the back design and box?

His initial proposed design has the same fronts but different backs and boxes for both decks.
 
Currently I am not so sure 
 
I like his new proposed front of the gold deck where both red and black fronts have gold border. But I am confused why there was a proposed design where both backs had changed to have gold border and silver element. I always liked his initial gold/blue and silver/red backs as they were.

[RandyButterfield]

Alright, I couldn't sleep last night thinking about this whole border issue so I ended up working on it quite a bit and I'm very happy with this solution and think it covers most people's concerns. The new border is the same with every FACE and BACK and it is a softer Gold color with a few hints of Silver. This keeps the Black cards from changing and let's the Red cards change very limited. I think the little bit of Gold gives the Red cards a little more depth also.

MagicAddictz - I don't want to take the chance with a huge Kickstarter goal to print 2 completely different decks. So yes, as of right now they are the same face cards with 2 different Backs and 2 different Tuck Boxes. If the USPCC won't give me a good quote to run the job 1/2 and 1/2 between the 2 face cards then it will be JUST the Blue/Gold Back and Tuck Box.

I also got rid of the one-way back. The circle works just as nicely so that was fine with me!

thanks, Randy

[RandyButterfield]

Aces with new border.

[RandyButterfield]

Queens with new border

[Don Boyer]

  I really don't know why people are getting upset over a one-way back... I can't see a spectator giving a damn unless you've got a reputation for doing tricks with one-way backs. In which case you should revise your routines and learn some sleights, you lazy ponce. Seriously, after you do something like a sandwich or some kind of card to impossible location, as if the spectator will go "Ah, the back is one-way, that's how you did it." Plus, with all the crazy card designs nowadays you can hardly tell if it's symmetrical or not, forget the spectators themselves. Not like this is a dose-style back anyway.


  As for practicality... I honestly don't find a single kickstarted deck to be of any practical purpose to this point..

The one-way back was a minor deal for magicians - some would probably even use it - but for serious card players, a one-way deck is a real no-no.  Granted, I don't see the WSOP adopting this design as their own any time soon, but some people love having themed poker nights and the like.


I LOVE the new design, and it appears to solve all the design issues I was talking about, among some others.  Let's get this deck made, already!


EDIT: Holy crap, the entire BACK is one way!  The lighting effect gives away which direction the card is turned!  Now THAT'S a subtle one-way back!

[Aaron]

Alright, I couldn't sleep last night thinking about this whole border issue so I ended up working on it quite a bit and I'm very happy with this solution and think it covers most people's concerns. The new border is the same with every FACE and BACK and it is a softer Gold color with a few hints of Silver. This keeps the Black cards from changing and let's the Red cards change very limited. I think the little bit of Gold gives the Red cards a little more depth also.

MagicAddictz - I don't want to take the chance with a huge Kickstarter goal to print 2 completely different decks. So yes, as of right now they are the same face cards with 2 different Backs and 2 different Tuck Boxes. If the USPCC won't give me a good quote to run the job 1/2 and 1/2 between the 2 face cards then it will be JUST the Blue/Gold Back and Tuck Box.

I also got rid of the one-way back. The circle works just as nicely so that was fine with me!

thanks, Randy

I really like that those look amazing. The border is perect. also I see you got rid of the 1-way design. I think you should maybe stick a diamond in the middle there and see how it looks. Because then it would not be 1-way but still have the design in the middle

[lordlupus]

Alright, I couldn't sleep last night thinking about this whole border issue so I ended up working on it quite a bit and I'm very happy with this solution and think it covers most people's concerns. The new border is the same with every FACE and BACK and it is a softer Gold color with a few hints of Silver. This keeps the Black cards from changing and let's the Red cards change very limited. I think the little bit of Gold gives the Red cards a little more depth also.

MagicAddictz - I don't want to take the chance with a huge Kickstarter goal to print 2 completely different decks. So yes, as of right now they are the same face cards with 2 different Backs and 2 different Tuck Boxes. If the USPCC won't give me a good quote to run the job 1/2 and 1/2 between the 2 face cards then it will be JUST the Blue/Gold Back and Tuck Box.

I also got rid of the one-way back. The circle works just as nicely so that was fine with me!

thanks, Randy

Excellent! Well done addressing all the concerns that were raised in this thread. The new border looks fine.
 
I can't wait to see the design of the Jokers.

[RandyButterfield]

EDIT: Holy crap, the entire BACK is one way!  The lighting effect gives away which direction the card is turned!  Now THAT'S a subtle one-way back!

Yep. I was very careful to make sure the actual border and the PIPS, Indices, Queens and such were two-way even with the lighting but I figured it would be nice to have the backs have that little touch to it. The Blue and Red scrolls and Gold and Silver scrolls at the top and bottom are two-way, it's just the Center pattern and the 2 half-circle discs.

Randy

[Aaron]

EDIT: Holy crap, the entire BACK is one way!  The lighting effect gives away which direction the card is turned!  Now THAT'S a subtle one-way back!

Yep. I was very careful to make sure the actual border and the PIPS, Indices, Queens and such were two-way even with the lighting but I figured it would be nice to have the backs have that little touch to it. The Blue and Red scrolls and Gold and Silver scrolls at the top and bottom are two-way, it's just the Center pattern and the 2 half-circle discs.

Randy

 That is awesome. I cant wait until these are made. When do you plan on getting these on KS?

[Derek]

The deck looks incredible!!! I'll be a backer for sure

[dee1orean]

I'm liking those gold borders!

[Evan]

I love the design and it looks great.... but in my opinion, having 2 decks that have the exact same fronts, is pointless and makes me not want to buy the deck. It just shows lack of effort. I know that you have put a ton of effort into these cards but having the same fronts just doesn't show it.

[loldudex2]

I love the design and it looks great.... but in my opinion, having 2 decks that have the exact same fronts, is pointless and makes me not want to buy the deck. It just shows lack of effort. I know that you have put a ton of effort into these cards but having the same fronts just doesn't show it.

Really? I think as long as they are released together it is no problem. He is offering an option. Now I see if he release one this year, and one next year it could show not putting effort, but if he is working on them at the same time I think it shows more effort.

[dmbaggs]

I love the design and it looks great.... but in my opinion, having 2 decks that have the exact same fronts, is pointless and makes me not want to buy the deck. It just shows lack of effort. I know that you have put a ton of effort into these cards but having the same fronts just doesn't show it.

Yeah I don't really see that at all. Maybe if he put out 15 versions in every color in the rainbow. Two different colors is the norm. Bicycle, Tally Ho, Bee, and more. Most of those have even more than just two colors. How many different colors of artifice do you have? What about Smoke and Mirrors?


I think that both of these look awesome and the colors give a different feel to each deck. Still stoked!

[RandyButterfield]

I love the design and it looks great.... but in my opinion, having 2 decks that have the exact same fronts, is pointless and makes me not want to buy the deck. It just shows lack of effort. I know that you have put a ton of effort into these cards but having the same fronts just doesn't show it.

My main reason for having the 2 backs is the custom Poker Sets. Poker Sets come with 2 decks of cards (usually 1 blue and 1 red). This way one deck can be shuffled as the other deck is in play. I thought it would be cool to have a unique take on the standard blue and red poker decks.

The Kickstarter campaign won't force people to pledge for an entire set or the same number of each back color. If someone wants 3 Red decks and 0 Blue, just pledge for 3 decks and message me through Kickstarter with your deck color breakdown.

The Poker Sets are going to be setup in a similar way. The chips will be Black, Gold, Red and Silver. I will have a default breakdown for each of the different sets available (ex. 500 Chip Set = 225 Black, 150 Red, 75 Gold, 50 Silver). Anybody pledging for a set (or single chips) will be able to message me through Kickstarter and send me their Chip color breakdown they would like, if they don't want the default breakdown.

thanks, Randy

[phantom1412]

You will have poker chips too?
Can you show us pics of those?

[Don Boyer]

Randy, I think doing such customization on the deck rewards will be complex enough, but to allow it for the chips is a recipe for insanity.  Will you find a chip maker that will sell you, for example, 10,000 black, 4,537 red, 100,832 white and 15,365 silver?  And are you up to the task of all that chip organizing and shipping?


If you want to go this complex, consider using an order fulfillment service.  It may or may not cost more in cash, but it will definitely cost less in hairs pulled out of your head...

[RandyButterfield]

The designs for the Poker Chips are still in progress. I'll show them when I get them finished.

As long as you order over 5,000 for the total number of chips you can get any quantity of the different
colors you need. I am concerned about organizing and shipping the sets. My wife will help out a lot.
I saw that Russell Kercheval used a fulfillment service with his Americana Decks so I was going to look
into fulfillment services when I'm further along on everything else.

thanks, Randy

[IAmTheChin]

Absolutely love the idea of the border. Would warrant a little caution though. Even at Q1, the minimum requirement for quality control is 1/16" meaning that if their cut is offset slightly, you'll be getting a noticeable difference in the left and right circles. A solution to this could be to accommodate that buffer zone into the circle.


Basically right now I'm seeing the circles end at the edges directly at the top and bottom tangents right? If it's offset, you'll be getting the beginning of a 'C-shape' on one end which is what will be the most noticeable part. But if the cards are laid out so that the edges intersect before the top and bottom tangents, giving yourself that buffer zone, then even with the offsets your worst case scenario is a slightly larger semicircle that no one will even notice.


Btw, love the blue. More of a blue and silver guy myself, but either way, looking solid.

[RandyButterfield]

Even at Q1, the minimum requirement for quality control is 1/16" meaning that if their cut is offset slightly, you'll be getting a noticeable difference in the left and right circles. A solution to this could be to accommodate that buffer zone into the circle.

Thanks for the tip Chin! I hadn't thought about that. I shifted the discs a little towards the trim edges.

Randy

[Masque]

The all-silver backs are breathtaking.  I would buy those by the gross. 


I suppose that means my wife really loves the current gold/silver.  Me, I find it a bit busy.  Red/gold and blue/silver? Now we're talking.

[Evan]

Could you share pics of the most recent, up to date, pics of the deck because you have been tweaking it... so I just want to see the current ones. Thanks

[phantom1412]

About the chips,
would it be a plastic casino chips, or something metal like coins?


(I would be very happy if I can see a beautiful metal coins in half dollar size.)

[Kanped]

About the chips,
would it be a plastic casino chips, or something metal like coins?


(I would be very happy if I can see a beautiful metal coins in half dollar size.)

I'm pretty sure he said these were casino style clay chips earlier.

[RandyButterfield]

We went out of town for the weekend so I'll post the current look on Monday night.

The Poker Chips will be a high quality Ceramic Chip with a smooth finish, I'm looking at getting
them produced by Palm Imports:

http://www.palmimports.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3&Itemid=3

thanks, Randy

[xela]

I'd actually love to see metal poker chips, it would be very interesting for sure (albeit quite expensive to produce I would imagine).

Either way, depending on how the Ornate chips look, I'll pick up a few. Keep in mind that you don't want any branding on the chips aside from an Ornate logo. Branding in general reduces classiness.

[RandyButterfield]

Here is the current look of the ORNATE Cards with ALL Faces and Backs having the same border:

http://www.midnightcardcompany.com/OrnateBACKS.jpg

http://www.midnightcardcompany.com/OrnateACES.jpg

http://www.midnightcardcompany.com/OrnatePOSTER.jpg

[dee1orean]

So much awesome detail! I could look at these for hours!!

I particularly like that the borders are not solid colour but patterned.

[phantom1412]

This is awesome!
Be sure to count me in as a backer.

[Lushbob]

It honestly just looks completely outstanding. I'm getting more and more eager to pick up a couple of these!

[Billywiz]

Great job Randy, those cards are stunning. The more I see of this deck, the more decks I want.
 
Billy.

[KPopFever605]

Great development Randy! Although they don't have the one-way back design like the original, I'm fine by that. Keep going!

[danktrees]

i'm gonna pledge more than i had initially planned...good work!

[Don Boyer]

This is a deck I would certainly buy.  The compromise border containing both gold and silver was ingenious and yet simple.  You could have a potential hit on your hands.

Now, there's the matter of seeing those male court cards....   

[dmbaggs]

The border really does look great! I love how much work you've put into this deck and it's been cool to see the changes happen before our very eyes. Really excited about this deck! Great work 

[moonexe]

The new borders look great, I don't have anything to say about the design anymore.
Even the pips position is awesome!
I'll be waiting for the rest of the court cards as well.
For now my personal favorite is the queen of hearts. Her face looks familiar.

[RandyButterfield]

Thanks for the compliments everyone!

I'm glad I posted these before they were finished and up for pledging.
That could have been disastrous! Your feedback really helped the design.

I will post again when some of the unfinished cards are ready to go.

thanks,
Randy

[Don Boyer]

Thanks for the compliments everyone!

I'm glad I posted these before they were finished and up for pledging.
That could have been disastrous! Your feedback really helped the design.

I will post again when some of the unfinished cards are ready to go.

thanks,
Randy

When selling a product, it truly helps to know your audience inside and out.  Looks like you came to the right place for that!  I'm sure I speak for the gang when I say, "Glad we could help."


Now get this thing Kickstarted already!

[RandyButterfield]

Finished up the Jacks. I went with Joust handles in place of the Queens "Flowers". The Kings will have Sword handles.

[RandyButterfield]

Here are the latest Queens for reference.

[danktrees]

lookin good, how far are you from completing it and putting it on ks?

[Derek]

I can't get over how much detail is in these cards, they look absolutely fantastic! 

[joshzachmatt]

The deck looks awesome! When do you think it will be released? I wanna get a couple. Please let me know!

[moonexe]

The jacks are amazing! I especially love the red ones. I can't get over how much originality there is in those court cards.
The mustache on the Jack of Spades does look a little weird, though. Not sure exactly why.
And you might want to add a bit more to the black queens, they look too a bit too similar to me.

Can't wait to see the Kings now.

[dmbaggs]

The Jacks look awesome! I thought the Jack of Hearts was robocop at first though haha


They really do look good and they are exceptionally original. I can't wait to see the kings!

[RandyButterfield]

The mustache on the Jack of Spades does look a little weird, though. Not sure exactly why.
And you might want to add a bit more to the black queens, they look too a bit too similar to me.

Yeah, that mustache just doesn't look right. I tried adding the hair streaks to help it out but
I'll redo the whole thing with a tighter, less bushy look.

Good catch on the Queens! I'll add some more Blue details to the Queen of Spades to
differentiate her more.

thanks, Randy

[Don Boyer]

I love the differentiation between the Jacks - the Queens, all of them, look nice but way too similar to each other.  I suggest you tweak the style on them more to give them distinctive facial features.


Ad far as the bushy moustache - I almost expect to see that guy take off his helmet and reveal his wavy mullet underneath!  But I actually like the moustache on him - it's distinctive and original.  It truly gives him character.

[Aaron]

I love the differentiation between the Jacks - the Queens, all of them, look nice but way too similar to each other.  I suggest you tweak the style on them more to give them distinctive facial features.


Ad far as the bushy moustache - I almost expect to see that guy take off his helmet and reveal his wavy mullet underneath!  But I actually like the moustache on him - it's distinctive and original.  It truly gives him character.

I acctally like the similarity of the court cards. But everyone is going to have a different opinion

[moonexe]

I love the differentiation between the Jacks - the Queens, all of them, look nice but way too similar to each other.  I suggest you tweak the style on them more to give them distinctive facial features.

Please keep the nose intact on the Queen of Hearts... She reminds me of someone because of it.
Now if her eyes could look a little younger...

[RandyButterfield]

The Kings are almost finished (along with some minor changes to the Queens and Jack of Clubs). Moon, The Queen of Hearts remains unaltered!

Here's a link to a render I setup as a starting point to work on the promo video. Based on some great advice I'm going away from the Bicycle branding. I also took inspiration from lordlupus' comment and renamed the Blue Backs Sapphire and the Red Backs Scarlet. The render also reflects some color changes also made to the front of the Tuck Boxes. Hope you like!

http://www.midnightcardcompany.com/ORNATETucks3d.jpg

thanks, Randy

[loldudex2]

This may be because I like Pokemon, but I feel that Scarlet and Sapphire don't match each other. I feel you should either go Ruby and Sapphire, or Scarlet and Cobalt, but I feel Sapphire and Scarlet don't match each other. Just my opinion. Everything else looks amazing.

[moonexe]

Agreed. Ruby/Sapphire or Scarlet/Cobalt both sound much more consistent than Scarlet/Sapphire.

[Evan]

My first thought was to be ruby and sapphire. But I actually really like moon's idea of Cobalt but I don't like scarlet 

[Aaron]

I also am not fond of the name scarlet, although this deck looks AMAZING! I cant wait until I can have this deck in my hands.

[Don Boyer]

The Kings are almost finished (along with some minor changes to the Queens and Jack of Clubs). Moon, The Queen of Hearts remains unaltered!

Here's a link to a render I setup as a starting point to work on the promo video. Based on some great advice I'm going away from the Bicycle branding. I also took inspiration from lordlupus' comment and renamed the Blue Backs Sapphire and the Red Backs Scarlet. The render also reflects some color changes also made to the front of the Tuck Boxes. Hope you like!

http://www.midnightcardcompany.com/ORNATETucks3d.jpg

thanks, Randy

They look nice.  I'm less concerned with the color names, though I agree that Crimson/Cobalt or Sapphire/Ruby are better name combinations.  But the bigger issue is the premium it will cost you to make this deck without using the Bicycle name.  USPC charges more for a custom deck made without the Bicycle brand.  Your future Kickstarter goal just got higher.  There's a reason Ellusionist used the name for all their decks until the release of Arcane.

[lordlupus]

I also took inspiration from lordlupus' comment and renamed the Blue Backs Sapphire and the Red Backs Scarlet. The render also reflects some color changes also made to the front of the Tuck Boxes.

I feel like an indirect unofficial co-designer of this project. 

[RandyButterfield]

The overall look is the reasoning of Scarlet over Ruby, Ruby Red or Ruby-Red. Ruby alone doesn't look good. The two Ruby Red options look odd with the space or hyphen. I like that Scarlet has some more orange in it than a true red and there are a few uses of orange in the Red backs and Red court cards. Also, my parents have a horse named Scarlet so I liked that as a fun second meaning.

I like that both names start with the same letter. Cobalt was thrown around but I didn't like it at all.

In the end I think the argument between Scarlet and Ruby Red isn't going to make a bit of difference. I doubt anyone thinking about getting a deck of Ornate cards is going to be swayed either way based on the red descriptor name. This deck is all about the looks! I've learned through years of experience with alcohol promotions that it's the look and design that sells, much more than the headline or copy. The exception being magazine ads or television commercials that utilize a catchy slogan or clever tagline.

Thanks, Randy

[Don Boyer]

Before ditching the "Bicycle" brand name, look into the difference in cost between using it and not using it.  It could be significant enough that you'd want to keep it.  Or not, but it's better to know than not know.

[RandyButterfield]

Sorry about this, but the reveal of the finished Court Cards will have to
be put on hold for a while. A unique opportunity arose, so I will actually
not be placing this deck on Kickstarter.

It will still be coming out though, so don't worry. I can't say much now,
but more details will be coming in the near future!

thank you for your support, Randy

[Derek]

Sorry about this, but the reveal of the finished Court Cards will have to
be put on hold for a while. A unique opportunity arose, so I will actually
not be placing this deck on Kickstarter.

It will still be coming out though, so don't worry. I can't say much now,
but more details will be coming in the near future!

thank you for your support, Randy

The first part of your post scared me but then I was relieved when you said they would still be coming out. It'd be a complete shame if they didn't. Can't wait for when you decide to produce them, you have my full support! 

[Evan]

My guess is that a company may want to release his deck 
But thats just a guess...

[Don Boyer]

If that's the case, then GO FOR IT, RANDY!  Private funding is so much simpler than a Kickstart, but bear in mind you may be ceding a bit of control over the project.  Be prepared to either make a few small sacrifices or kill the deal and go back to Kickstarter.


Good luck, man!

[dee1orean]

I'm a bit disappointed that the decks aren't going on Kickstarter.
I know it's great for the artist to have private funding but with kickstarter it feels like you are part of creating something.
Everyone who pledged on Vortex not only helped create a deck of cards but helped create this community.

Having said that it's great that Randy is getting recognition for his design and who knows where that may lead.

Congrats Randy.

I was just thinking, How does this affect the Poker Chips? I was very interested in those. Is that also part of the deal you've struck?

[Don Boyer]

I'm a bit disappointed that the decks aren't going on Kickstarter.
I know it's great for the artist to have private funding but with kickstarter it feels like you are part of creating something.
Everyone who pledged on Vortex not only helped create a deck of cards but helped create this community.

Having said that it's great that Randy is getting recognition for his design and who knows where that may lead.

Congrats Randy.

I was just thinking, How does this affect the Poker Chips? I was very interested in those. Is that also part of the deal you've struck?

While I agree about the whole community vibe thing, getting a deck made via Kickstarter is about as easy as getting a dentist to pull out teeth through your ears because you won't open your mouth.  I'm certain this is something Alex or RKercheval can attest to, especially now that the IRS is getting their nose into the Kickstarter project business and taking taxes off the top.

It's not as much fun for us, but I guarantee it's ten times easier for the designer, so perhaps instead of focusing so much effort on fundraising and working out the logistics, Randy can start working on the next big thing he's got rattling around in the back of his head!

I do hope there will be more, right, bro? 

[Aaron]

That is awesome, This will most likely speed up the ammount of time for us to get them because we dont have to wait for them to be funded.

[dmbaggs]

Yeah there are good and bad to it. I'm not going to argue that it should be one way or the other because it is what it is. I think that the wait can be tough but the prices via Kickstarter are more preferable than through a big name company or something along those lines.


I'm glad that this opportunity arose! It's probably pretty awesome and it'll speed up the process and then we can hopefully get some more awesome decks!

[moonexe]

That sounds like great news indeed!
One thing: On the tuck boxes with the color names, you can clearly see that they were originally designed around the Bicycle logo, which is hardly desirable. It also lacks the continuity of the original for the same reason. You might want to touch up the shape of the lettering and surrounding pattern to drift a bit further away from Bicycle if you do go that way. 
Though the picture illustrates pretty well your point about both names starting with the same letter. It does add a little something to the decks as a set.

[Don Boyer]

Yeah there are good and bad to it. I'm not going to argue that it should be one way or the other because it is what it is. I think that the wait can be tough but the prices via Kickstarter are more preferable than through a big name company or something along those lines.


I'm glad that this opportunity arose! It's probably pretty awesome and it'll speed up the process and then we can hopefully get some more awesome decks!

It's not necessarily a bad thing if a bigger company makes the deck.  The bigger the company, the more units they can sell, the more will be made, the better the price they can offer.  Seriously, I can buy Bicycle Masters from Ellusionist for less than it costs me to by Standard Bicycles at retail in this city!  I was considering using them for "destroyed card" tricks since they were cheaper!

That sounds like great news indeed!
One thing: On the tuck boxes with the color names, you can clearly see that they were originally designed around the Bicycle logo, which is hardly desirable. It also lacks the continuity of the original for the same reason. You might want to touch up the shape of the lettering and surrounding pattern to drift a bit further away from Bicycle if you do go that way. 
Though the picture illustrates pretty well your point about both names starting with the same letter. It does add a little something to the decks as a set.

Yeah, the names are growing on me, and I like that they start with the same letter.  It creates a sort of symmetry that links the decks much like their color scheme does.

[dmbaggs]

Yeah there are good and bad to it. I'm not going to argue that it should be one way or the other because it is what it is. I think that the wait can be tough but the prices via Kickstarter are more preferable than through a big name company or something along those lines.


I'm glad that this opportunity arose! It's probably pretty awesome and it'll speed up the process and then we can hopefully get some more awesome decks!

It's not necessarily a bad thing if a bigger company makes the deck.  The bigger the company, the more units they can sell, the more will be made, the better the price they can offer.  Seriously, I can buy Bicycle Masters from Ellusionist for less than it costs me to by Standard Bicycles at retail in this city!  I was considering using them for "destroyed card" tricks since they were cheaper!

Yeah I guess that could be so. I'm just going off the fact that all of the decks I've seen on Kickstarter have been much cheaper than most retail decks. I'm sure for some decks that isn't true. It seems to be the case for the most part though.

[Emmanuel]

Congratulations Randy! I hope we receive your deck much sooner than later; you've done a fantastic job on it!

[IAmTheChin]

Kickstarter is a nightmare. Smart move.

[Don Boyer]

Yeah I guess that could be so. I'm just going off the fact that all of the decks I've seen on Kickstarter have been much cheaper than most retail decks. I'm sure for some decks that isn't true. It seems to be the case for the most part though.

While Kickstarter investments are usually cheaper than full retail, a deck made by a major player is often close enough in price, and you have both assurance it'll get made plus the backing that company's name has to offer.  It would be different for a deck backed by a smaller player, like BMPokerWorld or (shudder) Merz67...

[dmbaggs]

Yeah I guess that could be so. I'm just going off the fact that all of the decks I've seen on Kickstarter have been much cheaper than most retail decks. I'm sure for some decks that isn't true. It seems to be the case for the most part though.

While Kickstarter investments are usually cheaper than full retail, a deck made by a major player is often close enough in price, and you have both assurance it'll get made plus the backing that company's name has to offer.  It would be different for a deck backed by a smaller player, like BMPokerWorld or (shudder) Merz67...

I know the pros and cons. I'm just saying from my personal experience backing projects.

[JMMJ]

Please stay with the colored borders. I am really tired of card creators having to print white boarders just because us magicians complain about having to hide double lifts and reversed cards. It would cost you more in looks  than it would give you in the "magic" area of the deck to abandon the silver or gold look that defines this deck.

And besides that, as long as a deck has borders that are the same color on both sides magicians can hide moves all they want so to the other magicians out there "STOP COMPLAINING"






I will also note that I am well late with this comment and thank you for preemptively acting upon it

[Don Boyer]

Please stay with the colored borders. I am really tired of card creators having to print white boarders just because us magicians complain about having to hide double lifts and reversed cards. It would cost you more in looks  than it would give you in the "magic" area of the deck to abandon the silver or gold look that defines this deck.

And besides that, as long as a deck has borders that are the same color on both sides magicians can hide moves all they want so to the other magicians out there "STOP COMPLAINING"






I will also note that I am well late with this comment and thank you for preemptively acting upon it

Wow - really late!  He kept his colored borders, by making both sides with identical gold-and-silver colored borders.  I think it was a rather ingenious idea, really.

He was aiming for the broadest possible audience, I think - pleasing magicians AND flourishers AND collectors.  I believe this deck will do so admirably on all counts.

[JMMJ]

Please stay with the colored borders. I am really tired of card creators having to print white boarders just because us magicians complain about having to hide double lifts and reversed cards. It would cost you more in looks  than it would give you in the "magic" area of the deck to abandon the silver or gold look that defines this deck.

And besides that, as long as a deck has borders that are the same color on both sides magicians can hide moves all they want so to the other magicians out there "STOP COMPLAINING"






I will also note that I am well late with this comment and thank you for preemptively acting upon it

Wow - really late!  He kept his colored borders, by making both sides with identical gold-and-silver colored borders.  I think it was a rather ingenious idea, really.

He was aiming for the broadest possible audience, I think - pleasing magicians AND flourishers AND collectors.  I believe this deck will do so admirably on all counts.

I agree, I was reading about page three and the boarder thing really bothers me so I just hit quick reply... Then I saw page four

[Collector]

Nice design in general. Is any sense to express critical thoughts against the background of total ecstasy?

[Aaron]

So Randy, What is the latest word on the deck? Is there an estimated release date?

[Evan]

I was going to ask what Aaron just did.... we haven't heard much about this deck lately and there has been nothing on your twitter and the site is not working.

[RandyButterfield]

It looks like it will be in a couple months. The designs are all done. I've started on the Midnight Cards website, a little bit. I'm mostly concentrating on an Animation / Trailer to help promote the launch. It's looking really cool so far! I'll post more images once I'm given the go-ahead.

thanks, Randy

[Linguist_]

Glad this thread was revived after a month or so. I just sat and read through the whole thread for about 20 minutes and it was great to see the encouragement this deck has been given and how it has been developed and tweaked.

The deck is wonderful and I'll try to keep on top of its progress and pick up a few when they're ready!

[phantom1412]

So will these be on kickstarter?

[RandyButterfield]

So will these be on kickstarter?

Nope. Not Kickstarter.

[phantom1412]

So will these be on kickstarter?

Nope. Not Kickstarter.

Then where?

[Don Boyer]

So will these be on kickstarter?

Nope. Not Kickstarter.

Then where?

He's already mentioned that he has a backer interested, who shall remain nameless for the time being.  He will not need to use Kickstarter to get his deck to market because it will be privately funded.

[Evan]

It sounds like they will be sold on their website but I'm not sure.


@Randy, given the go-ahead? You aren't running this?

[Don Boyer]

It sounds like they will be sold on their website but I'm not sure.


@Randy, given the go-ahead? You aren't running this?

Whose website?  The backer?  If that's what you mean, then I'd say in all likelihood, yes.  Randy may be carrying them as well on his own Midnight Playing Cards site when it goes live.  It's not often that some individual/company funds a deck on their own only to let someone else sell it exclusively...  It would be like T11 selling a T11 deck only on the D&D website and not their own; it doesn't happen.

[CBJ]

I must say...

I'm extremely disappointed that these will not be Bicycle branded.

Why did you change it??? 

CBJ

[NathanCanadas]

Wow. I have never seen this thread before today. Your skills are amazing. Good luck for the sale!

[Aaron]

Any word on a release date or any updates at all Randy? this is one of the decks I am lookign forward to the most in 2012.

[RandyButterfield]

Any word on a release date or any updates at all Randy? this is one of the decks I am lookign forward to the most in 2012.

Hi Aaron, it looks like they'll be released in June sometime.
Sorry about the dissapointment CBJ. I hope you'll like them without the Bicycle branding.
Thanks for the compliment Nathan! Now you see whay I haven't had much time too work on my other
2 Discourse Group cards. I've been pretty busy with my day job and an animation I'm making for the ORNATES.

Since these cards have all been seen before I don't see the harm to post a still frame from one of
the scenes. The black space at the top is for type to be added in later.

thanks, Randy

[Aaron]

Ahhhh, this deck is just so gorgeous! I can't wait until I can have one of these in my hands.

[NathanCanadas]

I totally understand, Randy! Will you be selling uncuts?

[RandyButterfield]

Yes, there will be uncuts.

thanks, Randy

[max]

really disappointed about the Bicycle brand out! it is a pity, although the deck is nice....

[N3TL0@D3R]

they're just fine....OK, I've seen better.... i just want a freaking brick!!!!!!
Awesome mate, i will be waiting for those.

[sinsandman]

Bicycle branding or not, this will be a great deck. Looking forward to it!

[RandyButterfield]

It's wild how much controversy could stem from just a small 2"w x 1"h area on the tuck box!

Here's another still image from the promo animation that will hopefully soften the non-Bicycle
branding a little more.

thanks, Randy

[NathanCanadas]

The face of the box looks amazing, the queen design is brilliant. Randy the design is awesome, super awesome, duper awesome, and did I say it was awesome?! You are the next Da Vinci

[Don Boyer]

I want to see those cards - and those chips!

[Dudeee]

Firstly, I would like to say I am a poker kinda guy as well.

Secondly, I am looking for a new set of chips for the new home.

Thirdly, I love the ornate and opulent look of the cards. They look like poker cards that royalties will use for a game of poker.

These cards and chips looks perfect in my opinion, the details and the colors are extremely regal.

Awesome Job Randy!!!!

[RandyButterfield]

Thanks for the compliment Dudee!

A regal set of cards that look like they're for royalty is what I was going for when I first started designing
these. I was watching an episode of _______ and got hit by the spark when they were in a room with
a bunch of ornate, baroque style chairs!

The ORNATE Poker Chips are in limbo as of now. I've attached the flats to show a full look of them. In order
to get the designed border, that would flow nicely with the cards, the chips would need to be custom Ceramic
Chips. Clay Chips with sticker inlays have great print quality but the borders available aren't great for these
designs. The unfortunate part of Ceramic Chips is the printing technology is not the best. The ink actually soaks
into the chip so there is some bleeding that doesn't allow for superfine details, and the colors darken up also.
The prototypes I had mad look OK but they're definitely not perfect. I had to lighten a lot of the colors and remove
some fine details, most notably the lighting and texture on the "Flower" shapes.

I'm ordering a set for myself this week. When I get the finished Chips I'll make the call on whether the final chips
are good enough to sell them through my MidnightCardCompany website, that is still in progress.

thanks, Randy

[Aaron]

Thanks for the compliment Dudee!

A regal set of cards that look like they're for royalty is what I was going for when I first started designing
these. I was watching an episode of The Tudors and got hit by the spark when they were in a room with
a bunch of ornate, baroque style chairs!

The ORNATE Poker Chips are in limbo as of now. I've attached the flats to show a full look of them. In order
to get the designed border, that would flow nicely with the cards, the chips would need to be custom Ceramic
Chips. Clay Chips with sticker inlays have great print quality but the borders available aren't great for these
designs. The unfortunate part of Ceramic Chips is the printing technology is not the best. The ink actually soaks
into the chip so there is some bleeding that doesn't allow for superfine details, and the colors darken up also.
The prototypes I had mad look OK but they're definitely not perfect. I had to lighten a lot of the colors and remove
some fine details, most notably the lighting and texture on the "Flower" shapes.

I'm ordering a set for myself this week. When I get the finished Chips I'll make the call on whether the final chips
are good enough to sell them through my MidnightCardCompany website, that is still in progress.

thanks, Randy

HOLY CRAP! Don't make me need to buy the chips also Those look amazing! How big of sets will the be sold in?

[Dudeee]

Thanks for the compliment Dudee!

A regal set of cards that look like they're for royalty is what I was going for when I first started designing
these. I was watching an episode of The Tudors and got hit by the spark when they were in a room with
a bunch of ornate, baroque style chairs!

The ORNATE Poker Chips are in limbo as of now. I've attached the flats to show a full look of them. In order
to get the designed border, that would flow nicely with the cards, the chips would need to be custom Ceramic
Chips. Clay Chips with sticker inlays have great print quality but the borders available aren't great for these
designs. The unfortunate part of Ceramic Chips is the printing technology is not the best. The ink actually soaks
into the chip so there is some bleeding that doesn't allow for superfine details, and the colors darken up also.
The prototypes I had mad look OK but they're definitely not perfect. I had to lighten a lot of the colors and remove
some fine details, most notably the lighting and texture on the "Flower" shapes.

I'm ordering a set for myself this week. When I get the finished Chips I'll make the call on whether the final chips
are good enough to sell them through my MidnightCardCompany website, that is still in progress.

thanks, Randy

I really hope the chips work out, they look like they fit nicely on my poker table.

On another note, I forgot to suggest this in my previous post.

Even if the chips aren't possible, I think this will be a good idea and I think they will sell too(at least with the collectors and poker players).

How about getting some plastic cards? From a poker player to another, these are essential for a truly Regal game. On top of that some designers are starting to print plastic cards nowadays, Karnivals and Gargoyles both have cards done with plastic.

Hope you can handle the added suggestion.

[RandyButterfield]

Hey Everyone,

I'm not adept at website coding, at all. I'm currently working on relearning Dreamweaver, so my original plan was to just squeak out
a finished website and not deal with a store section. After I saw Paul (Tendril - http://encarded.bigcartel.com/) mention that he uses
big cartel for his store I checked into it and it's really cool. They host your store at a small monthly fee and you don't have to worry
about any order coding stuff.

So, unless my Poker Set turns out like crap, I'll have the Poker Chips for sale on my site in 2 areas. The first being a cheap 4 Chip
(one of each color) Sample Set so people could make a small purchase first and get some Chips in their hands before they invest in a
full set. The second being the set quantities of 100, 250, 500, 600, 750 and 1,000. If big cartel allows for dropdown ordering of specific
quantities I'll probably go with that so people can get the exact amount of Chips they want. Either way with the sets I'll have a sentence
or 2 stating that when someone orders they can e-mail me with Chip color breakdowns if they don't want 25% of each color in their set.

So far here's what I was thinking of having in my store:

Poker Chips SAMPLE SET
Poker Chips Set Quantities
1 or 2 Shirts
Art Glycee Prints
Playing Cards and Uncuts (these will redirect to the store page of the company that's producing and distributing the cards)


I'm happy to take any suggestions if anyone has any ideas on other items.

@ Dudee, Plastic cards is something I didn't look at in-depth, but after seeing all the hassle that Reagan has gone through
with his plastic cards (the Kem/not Kem debate) I'm thinking that I'll stay out of that arena at this time.

thanks, Randy

[NathanCanadas]

Randy, I think that's a great idea. It would allow people to choose exactly what they would like.

[Billywiz]

Randy, will your poker chip sets come with a custom dealer button or standard dealer button? If custom do you have any ideas or pictures? Thanks.

[Aaron]

Well, I am going to need a set of chips. I have a decent set but I have been looking for a new one so these will be perfect. I'll probably pick up a 500-piece set, depending on price. And a brick of the deck should do for me and maybe an uncut. I can't wait to get the chips and decks. I am really curious what company will be putting these out. Can you tell us if it is a big company?

[RandyButterfield]

Randy, will your poker chip sets come with a custom dealer button or standard dealer button? If custom do you have any ideas or pictures? Thanks.

I actually hadn't planned on a dealer button. I'll look into it and get back with you. I wasn't planning on selling full sets with all the bells and whistles - i.e. Chips, Dealer Button, Dice, Case and Cards. There's a lot of places online to purchase empty Poker Cases and Dice at very reasonable rates. I added Dealer Button to my "to do" list and will work on a design for it. I'm sure the company printing the chips can also print custom dealer buttons.

@Aaron, the thing with Ceramic Chips is they're not cheap!
If I have them in the store they'll probably be priced around:

$1.00 per Chip (1-250 Set)

.90¢ per Chip (251-500 Set)

.80¢ per Chip (501-750 Set)

.75¢ per Chip (751-1,000 Set)


thanks, Randy

[NathanCanadas]

Would the chips be usable for card magic? That would be rad! 

[RandyButterfield]

Would the chips be usable for card magic? That would be rad! 

I have no idea!! They would be 39mm Smooth Surface Ceramic Chips.
The weight and "clink" of the prototypes I have are real nice.

[Don Boyer]

Would the chips be usable for card magic? That would be rad! 

Chips?  In card magic?  I usually use cards...  Y'know, seeing as how it's card magic and all that... 


Now, COIN magic, on the other hand...


There's a sister category of coin magic that covers chips.  There's differences in how they handle, and the gaffs are somewhat different.  Chips are generally much lighter, and larger than all but the biggest coins.

[Dudeee]

I can't wait for this deck to be out. It has the two things that I like, luxury and regal looking cards and it's designed with poker in mind too.

I have never requested for a signed deck so far, but I'm gonna break the rule this time.

I hope it will go on sale soon.

[phantom1412]

I'll be ordering both decks and chips for sure. For collection purposes only.
I can't imagine myself letting people throwing, playing, destroying ... etc the chips. LoL

[xlacs]

These are absolutely gorgeous and elegant looking. Wish I had a man cave and a nice poker table to show them off in .

 

[RandyButterfield]

Thanks for the kind words everyone! I should be getting my set of Chips hopefully by the end of this week.
We have our monthly Poker night in 2 weeks, so I will definitely be trying them out soon! I'll take pictures of the
Chips once they arrive.

thanks, Randy

[RandyButterfield]

Here's some pics of my set of ORNATE Poker Chips. I'll be testing them out in a couple nights with my Poker buddies.

thanks, Randy

[Aaron]

DAMN!! Those are SEXY! I love them, I doubt I wil be able to afford them at $1 a chip though. You should consider also making a version of the chips on cheap plastic chip that come in sets at Wall-Mart. Then us less wealthy people could also buy them.

[Don Boyer]

Those do look awesome.  What's the weight of each chip?

Are they REALLY going to cost a buck a chip?  What about in bulk?

[RandyButterfield]

Those do look awesome.  What's the weight of each chip?

Are they REALLY going to cost a buck a chip?  What about in bulk?

Thanks Don. The weight is 10-10.5 grams and they are 39mm in diameter. The blank chips themselves are imported from Sun-Fly (www.sunflycasinochips.com) so they are professional grade ceramics. They are printed by a Florida based company called Palm Imports (http://www.palmimports.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3&Itemid=3).

The cost to myself is .59$ cents per chip, no matter how many I order at a time. This doesn't include the shipping fees to myself, the time spent sorting and getting the sets ready for mailing and WASTE. I learned last night that around 5% of the chips will be tossed. Some of them have missing ink patches and some have dark outlines at the edges. So with the 751-1,000 Chip Sets selling on my site for .75$ per chip there's a good chance I could lose a few dollars on each set sold. I'm not too worried about that yet though. If I sell them through my site they will mainly serve as tax deductions for Midnight Cards - with the added bonus that it raises the awareness of the Midnight Cards brand.

I'm looking into another company that prints on Ceramic Chips so we'll see how that pans out.

Good Clay Chips are just as expensive, or even more expensive, as Ceramics. The plastic/ABS chips are closer to .20$ per chip but the range of available borders is very limited. I could look into maybe having some ABS chips with inlays at a cheaper price as an option to those who can't afford or don't want to spend a lot on Ceramics.

Here's Palm Imports info on ABS Chips:

http://www.palmimports.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1&Itemid=2

Would you guys be interested in on option to buy ABS Chips?

thanks, Randy

[NathanCanadas]

The palm import chips don't seem they would fit with your design... How big would the price difference be?

[RandyButterfield]

The palm import chips don't seem they would fit with your design... How big would the price difference be?

Nathan, I'm using Palm Imports now to print the Ceramic Chips. The ABS link above is just Palm Imports available borders for custom ABS Chips. There are some other borders available with other companies, but not much more of a variety. That's why I went with Ceramics in the first place - the ability to do FULL customization with the Chips and border. If I did some ORNATE ABS Chips they would probably sell on my site for .50¢ or less per chip.

thanks, Randy

[NathanCanadas]

I meant the ABS chips from this link:
http://www.palmimports.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1&Itemid=2

If there are other border possibilities, then it might work out, but for a difference 9 cents a chip, I would rather have one that is uniform.

[RandyButterfield]

I meant the ABS chips from this link:
http://www.palmimports.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1&Itemid=2

If there are other border possibilities, then it might work out, but for a difference 9 cents a chip, I would rather have one that is uniform.

It would be a .50¢ difference. The Ceramics would sell on my site for $1.00 or less per chip. The ABS would sell for .50¢ or less per chip.

thanks, Randy

[NathanCanadas]

Oh, wow! I thought it cost you 59¢ for the ceramics and 50¢ for the ABS. I would personally go with the ABS: the price difference is really big for not a huge design difference.

[Don Boyer]

Personally, I might pay for a more expensive chip - but having the cheaper option available is smart business.  There will be a lot of people here who simply couldn't afford it.  At a dollar a chip, a small set of only 100 costs $100 - that's not cheap.

[Russell CircleCityCards]

Randy and I met up last night and I got to take a look at the chips.  They are gorgeous!  The detail they can put on a porous chip is amazing.  Looking at the PSD vs the final chip is pretty close.


As for the price, I don't think these are really intended for long-term serious use.  It is more of a fun and unique collectible item to have.  Anyone can go to Walmart and buy chips to use for the weekly poker game, but this is functional art.


I've been looking into a few chip dealers myself, it is amazing the range of materials and quality that is available.  I think Randy found a winner.
I'd love to make some for my Americana deck... 

[RandyButterfield]

Thanks for the kind words Russell! It was great to meet you.

I was lucky to get my Americana Kickstarter decks last night and they are badass!!
The grunge background is perfect, the art is sweet and the USPCC did a great job with
a really small border trim.


As for the Poker Chips, I'm not counting on selling very many sets. I don't know if I would want to
sell a lot of them! After spending over an hour just going through my set of 600 picking out the bad chips
with missing ink patches and just getting them all separated I had a huge headache. Granted, they were
in order in the shipping box but after I let the kids play with them for just 15 minutes they were a cluster****!

thanks, Randy

[Lara Krystle "Lane"]

Randy... you are AMAZING! These are gorgeous cards! And also I'm not a gamblr or card player of any-sorts... but those chips makes me want to be one hahahah!!!
You are an amazing talented designer. I wish I was more like you guys here at Aethercards (and elsewheres) who has this awesome talent for designing and drawing.

I <3 the Sapphire and Scarlet names.
I can't wait to get some of these. I just hope I don't miss out on it like I  did on the seasons due to the heavy site traffics that I couldn't get through.

These are really incredible.

[K]

I must say those cards and chips look sexy  any idea when is the release date? Can't seem to find it.. but it's good to take your time and get everything to perfection like the seasons  I'm with others on the $1 per chip, wouldn't that be expensive especially to international buyers? due to the weight and all.. Because I'm really interested in getting those!

[RandyButterfield]

I must say those cards and chips look sexy  any idea when is the release date? Can't seem to find it.. but it's good to take your time and get everything to perfection like the seasons  I'm with others on the $1 per chip, wouldn't that be expensive especially to international buyers? due to the weight and all.. Because I'm really interested in getting those!

Sorry I haven't responded earlier. My family and I are still at Disney World! It looks like the release date of June is still doable, by early July at the latest.

As for the chips, my neighborhood Poker game last week went great. The chips looked, clinked and felt great. My Poker buddies thought they were cool, and they're hard to sway with anything new! Next week I'm going to check on a different company and maybe get a few chips through them to compare with the Palm Import chips.

I have a couple other items to go with the ORNATES that are in progress and should be pretty sweet also + a LOT cheaper than the Poker Chips!

thanks, Randy

[LeonJL]

Is this deck still scheduled to release in June? Latest early July? Any updates on it? I do look forward to seeing this deck and the chips. 

[RandyButterfield]

Is this deck still scheduled to release in June? Latest early July? Any updates on it? I do look forward to seeing this deck and the chips. 

Hi awretch,

Unfortunately they're delayed a little bit and it looks like mid-to-late July. It's out of my hands, so I can't control when they come out. Hopefully they're worth the wait!

I've been concentrating on getting some cool accessories and art prints to go with the decks. The Poker Chips had a great breakthrough the past couple weeks. I contacted a different Chip manufacturer and they ran a few samples of the ORNATE Chips on there Smooth Ceramics. They look amazing! The color richness and fine details are head-and-shoulders better than the Palm Imports Chips I originally planned on going with. Another good development is the new Chip manufacturer liked the designs quite a bit and it looks like they will be available to purchase through their website directly. This means the Chips will be a little cheaper than if I was the middle man going through Palm Imports. It also means I won't have to deal with shipping Chips to my home, sorting through them to complete orders and shipping them out to customers! That is a huge relief. I don't want to say the Chip manufacturer's name yet because we're still working on the details.

I've also been working on a website for Midnight Cards. Website creation is something I dread and have been putting off for too long. I keep pushing it back to work on print or promo items. Tonight I finished up a design for a Midnight Cards specific print piece that turned out pretty cool. I went ahead and grabbed a section and put together a quick Wallpaper. I'll have iPhone, iPad and various size wallpapers of this and an ORNATE version(s) as free downloads on my site as well.

Here's the link to the large version of the Wallpaper:

www.midnightcardcompany.com/MidnightWallLG.jpg

Once the cards get close to releasing I'll start a new thread in the Playing Cards Plethora section with a link to the Promo Animation.

On a side note - just a couple weeks ago I was writing up some description copy for the ORNATES and ended it with "Playing cards fit for a King!". A couple days later I saw the White Monarchs description "Elegant, fit for a king,....." and now just tonight I noticed the new Baroque Deck from Criss Angel has a product description that ends with "ideal for fans of magic and LOYALS alike.... The King of Cards!". What is going on!! I need to go back and changeup my copy some.

thanks, Randy

[Lara Krystle "Lane"]

Hey Randy I remember the thing about the description. did we go for something like "Creating finely detailed playing cards to suit your Royal impulses" At least that is what I went with on my post
http://laranovales.wordpress.com/playing-cards-co/midnight-card-company/
But yeah.

xoxo
Lara

[RandyButterfield]

Hey Randy I remember the thing about the description. did we go for something like "Creating finely detailed playing cards to suit your Royal impulses" At least that is what I went with on my post
http://laranovales.wordpress.com/playing-cards-co/midnight-card-company/
But yeah.

xoxo
Lara

Thanks Lara! It's actually still in there, last line of the Company Overview. It looks like we changed the copy for the short tagline
to "Creating finely detailed playing cards to suit your Royal impulses". I just noticed the link for the interview. Very cool!

thanks, Randy

[LeonJL]

Thanks for the update Randy! I'm sure they're worth the wait. You mentioned accessories and art print, are you planning to make a combo or some sort so that people who are interested could get one which includes decks, chips(i know it's more costly if it's shipped to you and then for you to pack it into a combo..) and other things maybe?

Great news on the chips! From your description, it's piqued my curiosity and I want to see how they turn out.

Anyway, hope to see this on the Playing Cards Plethora in the future!

[NathanCanadas]

I'm sorry if this has already been answered, but now that you have a sponsor for the deck as well as probably one for the chips, will you need a kickstarter or will you directly skip the pre-ordering phase and just order the decks and have them to order on your site? Also, congrats for the chips, I'm glad they turned out well and won't be too costly either.

[RandyButterfield]

I'm sorry if this has already been answered, but now that you have a sponsor for the deck as well as probably one for the chips, will you need a kickstarter or will you directly skip the pre-ordering phase and just order the decks and have them to order on your site? Also, congrats for the chips, I'm glad they turned out well and won't be too costly either.

Nathan, the decision to go without Kickstarter was made back in January!
The decks will be up for sale when they are instock and ready to go. No pre-order.

thanks, Randy

[Don Boyer]

After the description you gave of the last chip set, I admit my curiosity is piqued about this new one.  Don't suppose you could post images of them?  I'll settle for CG previews!

[RandyButterfield]

After the description you gave of the last chip set, I admit my curiosity is piqued about this new one.  Don't suppose you could post images of them?  I'll settle for CG previews!

Hey Don,

Here's an ok picture I took of the Old and New Chips side-by-side. I don't have a macro lens so the photo quality isn't great, but you can see some of the differences. The Red and Gold Chips have a little depth-of-field going on but you can see the sharpness difference of the New Chips on the White and Black ones. The best comparison that comes through in the photo is the Floral Pattern on the White Chips. Also, the Gold colors are much nicer and all of the Suits and Floral Pattern have a lot more detail showing through in the New Chips.

I'm doing some minor color adjustments, lightening some colors and darkening others, to make the New Chips pop even more for production.

thanks, Randy

[Don Boyer]

After the description you gave of the last chip set, I admit my curiosity is piqued about this new one.  Don't suppose you could post images of them?  I'll settle for CG previews!

Hey Don,

Here's an ok picture I took of the Old and New Chips side-by-side. I don't have a macro lens so the photo quality isn't great, but you can see some of the differences. The Red and Gold Chips have a little depth-of-field going on but you can see the sharpness difference of the New Chips on the White and Black ones. The best comparison that comes through in the photo is the Floral Pattern on the White Chips. Also, the Gold colors are much nicer and all of the Suits and Floral Pattern have a lot more detail showing through in the New Chips.

I'm doing some minor color adjustments, lightening some colors and darkening others, to make the New Chips pop even more for production.

thanks, Randy

I noticed the red-suited chips have sort of a black "filigree" in a circle near the edge of the chip.  The black-suited ones don't have anything filling them in.  I'd consider using either white or red to fill them in like the red-suited ones.  It will make them pop even more, I think.  If you use red, you might need a brighter shade to get some real contrast going on in there.

[RandyButterfield]

@Don, I'll look into that when I'm adjusting the colors.

I just talked with the Poker Chip Manufacturer and the Chips will definitely be selling on his site after the cards launch!
I have some work to do because he asked if I could create some more color options, since a lot of Poker players like
a good variety of chips. The plan is to expand the Chips to 8 in total (2 different colors for each suit). I'll decide on the
new colors while making the adjustments on the original 4.

There will also be an ORNATE Dealer Button available at a 2" Diameter and at a 3.5" Diameter size.

thanks, Randy

[Lara Krystle "Lane"]

Randy this is AMAZING!
the new chips looks more crisp than the old ones an i can really see the detailsdespite my eyes being a little weak in the morning.
I can really the difference with the black and the yellow chips. Great find. and I'm really happy for you! Looking forward to this.

[LeonJL]

I agree with the new chips looking amazing!! Personally, I like the black and white chip the most as they show the most contrast of colours. Can't wait to see the 4 alternate coloured chips as well. Any purple chips maybe? I like the combination of purple and gold although i'm no expert in colour schemes and matching. 

[RandyButterfield]

I agree with the new chips looking amazing!! Personally, I like the black and white chip the most as they show the most contrast of colours. Can't wait to see the 4 alternate coloured chips as well. Any purple chips maybe? I like the combination of purple and gold although i'm no expert in colour schemes and matching. 

I won't be sure of the new colors until I get back into the files, but my gut is steering towards Blue, Green, Purple and Orange. They would all be soft, almost pastel colors - similar to the Gold Chip.

thanks, Randy

[Don Boyer]

@Don, I'll look into that when I'm adjusting the colors.

I just talked with the Poker Chip Manufacturer and the Chips will definitely be selling on his site after the cards launch!
I have some work to do because he asked if I could create some more color options, since a lot of Poker players like
a good variety of chips. The plan is to expand the Chips to 8 in total (2 different colors for each suit). I'll decide on the
new colors while making the adjustments on the original 4.

There will also be an ORNATE Dealer Button available at a 2" Diameter and at a 3.5" Diameter size.

thanks, Randy

You can add striping to the "higher-value" chips.  Keep the same basic layout but make them different enough to make them distinct.  Perhaps blue stripes, for the Sapphire deck?

[RandyButterfield]

Hey Everyone,

I finished up the 4 new Poker Chips and Dealer Buttons. Below is a flat layout of all the Fronts, Backs and Edgings. I also put together a new render to see how they all look together. I like how they turned out! To give all 8 a consistent look I decided to have the only differences be the denomination colors. The Dealer Buttons have a lot of freedom, like a Joker Card, so I had fun with the design and gave the Front and Back a look similar to the Sapphire and Scarlet Tuck Boxes. The big 3.5" Dealer Button Front and Back is seen a little at the Top and Left sides of the render. Those ones are so massive they dwarf the regular chips and smaller Dealer Button.

@Don - I played around with stripes a lot when I first starting working on the original designs. Nothing looked right until I scrapped it and went full steam ahead with the swirl patterns from the cards.

thanks, Randy

[NathanCanadas]

Oh, my effing gosh!!!!!!!! How. What. ?? I'm speechless. The colors are so vivid... This is really beautiful. Looks like I'll be cashing out on this although I'm not a poker player. Wow.

[Lara Krystle "Lane"]

DROOOOOOOOL.......
Those chips are beautiful! There are PINK/LILAC ones! OMGOMGOMGOMGMOG!!!!!!!

Great job Randy! Really great awesome awesome as always.
Maybe I should learn how to play poker so I can use these chips.

[Don Boyer]

I have to say - they look awesome.  I can't wait for them to go on sale.

[RandyButterfield]

Thanks for the compliments Nathan, Lara and Don!!

I can't wait for them to go on sale also, mainly because that will mean
the cards have been released as well!

thanks, Randy

[LeonJL]

I'm already a fan of the previous chips, with the four new colors, I'm definitely going to pick up a set! I particularly like the blue and orange ones or the new batch, maybe because blue is my favourite color! 

[Cipher Kai]

I really look forward to getting this on Kickstarter.  Gorgeous Randy!

[RandyButterfield]

I really look forward to getting this on Kickstarter.  Gorgeous Randy!

Thanks Cipher Kai! It won't be a Kickstarter campaign though.

thanks, Randy

[CBJ]

Hey Everyone,

I finished up the 4 new Poker Chips and Dealer Buttons. Below is a flat layout of all the Fronts, Backs and Edgings. I also put together a new render to see how they all look together. I like how they turned out! To give all 8 a consistent look I decided to have the only differences be the denomination colors. The Dealer Buttons have a lot of freedom, like a Joker Card, so I had fun with the design and gave the Front and Back a look similar to the Sapphire and Scarlet Tuck Boxes. The big 3.5" Dealer Button Front and Back is seen a little at the Top and Left sides of the render. Those ones are so massive they dwarf the regular chips and smaller Dealer Button.

@Don - I played around with stripes a lot when I first starting working on the original designs. Nothing looked right until I scrapped it and went full steam ahead with the swirl patterns from the cards.

thanks, Randy

Sorry, I'm late to the party..

Man, the chips look nice.

Randy, Have you contacted HomePokerChips?  They produce Chipco chips which are real casino chips.
http://www.homepokerchips.com/

I have samples from them, and I have to say that I am blown away.
I'm not sure on the quantity you are looking to produce, but it might be worth a call

CBJ

[RandyButterfield]

Randy, Have you contacted HomePokerChips?  They produce Chipco chips which are real casino chips.
http://www.homepokerchips.com/

I have samples from them, and I have to say that I am blown away.
I'm not sure on the quantity you are looking to produce, but it might be worth a call

CBJ

Hey CBJ,

Thanks for the kind words! I have some ChipCo samples (Apache, Rounders Casino and The Classics). I think they are great, much better than the Palm Imports set of mine. The manufacturer I'm going with is ABC (http://www.abcgiftsandawards.com/pokerchips.htm). Their website isn't very impressive but the Chips' quality really speak for themselves! Their chips are 10 gram and they also sell Nevada Jacks Ceramics.

When comparing the ABC ORNATE Chips with the ChipCo samples, I would say the ABC Chips are a little slicker than the ChipCos but the print quality is actually a notch or two better than the ChipCo printing. The ABC Chips really are very crisp in the details, their comparison page is on the money when compared to the Palm Import Chips (http://www.abcgiftsandawards.com/pokerchipcomparison.htm).

I have a sample set of Nile Club Chips also that are very slick. The ABC Chips aren't nearly as slick as those and they definitely don't slide around when stacked. Gene over at ABC has been great and I look forward to working with him.

thanks, Randy

[authorXD]

The deck looks great Randy, I will be a sure-fire backer all the way. The design really looks great, and vintage somewhat. I am guessing that there'll be two versions, right?

Full color decks are pretty rare. When will they come out, cause I'll defiantly buy this deck. Do you use a design program? I' currently working on a design for a stark deck, Email me @ alexevansauthor@gmail.com. (And yes, I really a a writer  )

[N3TL0@D3R]

Waiting so bad for this deck 

[RandyButterfield]

Hey Everyone,

Things are going smoothly with miscellaneous items like the Poker Chips, Art Prints and a few other goodies that will be available. The cards themselves have been delayed again. The delay is directly related to a 2-week USPCC shutdown! The release date now looks to be early-to-mid August.

So, as a way to make the time go by quicker (especially for myself!), I want to reveal a previously unreleased Card Design or Render on each Tuesday afternoon. The last reveal will be the release of the Promo Animation a week before the Cards' launch.

To start it off tomorrow's reveal will be two of my favorites, the ORNATE Jokers!

My family and I took a vacation to Disney World a couple months ago and we stayed at their Port Orleans - French Quarter Resort. The theme of the hotel was New Orleans / Mardi Gras and they had a lot of cool Joker statues and plaques all over the place. I was shocked when I saw an element that could almost be a double to the ORNATE Joker imagery!

Inspired by Don Boyer's contest last week, I want to have a little fun and have a CONTEST between now and tomorrow morning - 11:00 A.M. EDT. The first person to guess which element in the photo below is similar to the ORNATE Jokers WINS! HINT: It's NOT my daughter!

Here is a direct link to the image: http://www.midnightcardcompany.com/JokersHotel.jpg

The prize is an 11"w x 14"h Giclee Art Print. Only one guess per person please.

FOR THE FEW PEOPLE WHO HAVE SEEN THE JOKERS, PLEASE REFRAIN FROM ANSWERING.

thanks, Randy

[Don Boyer]

Inspired by Don Boyer's contest last week

Glad I could be inspiring!

FOR THE FEW PEOPLE WHO HAVE SEEN THE JOKERS, PLEASE REFRAIN FROM ANSWERING.

thanks, Randy

Aw, no fair!

[NathanCanadas]

I'm going for the statue behind your daughter (to the left of her), blurred out.

[CBJ]

I agree with Don.. no fair.

LOL

[Assassino13]

Top right joker on the plaque.

[Lara Krystle "Lane"]

I second Don and CBJ... meh.
Good luck guys! I can't wait to see who wins the print.

[MSimonart]

costume of the crocodile (red)

[RandyButterfield]

And the winner is... Assassino13!

I'll PM Assassino13 to get the choice of Art Print and where to send it.
No one actually guessed the correct element (the Joker's Head on the Staff),
but Assassino13 was the only on in the same section - the upper right image.

So, here is the reveal of the ORNATE Jokers! They are both shown in separate
Art Print Layouts. The image area for each image is 10.5"w x 13.5"h - the image
area for most 11"w x 14"h Frames and Mats.

thanks and check back next Tuesday afternoon for another reveal.
Randy

[Don Boyer]

thanks and check back next Tuesday afternoon for another reveal.
Randy

[pout]...which I probably can't play...[/pout]

[RandyButterfield]

thanks and check back next Tuesday afternoon for another reveal.
Randy

[pout]...which I probably can't play...[/pout]

Hey Don,

I probably won't be doing anymore contests, just the reveals. I might do one more contest before or after the Promo Animation reveal, but that will be something completely random for anyone to participate.

thanks, Randy

[Don Boyer]

thanks and check back next Tuesday afternoon for another reveal.
Randy

[pout]...which I probably can't play...[/pout]

Hey Don,

I probably won't be doing anymore contests, just the reveals. I might do one more contest before or after the Promo Animation reveal, but that will be something completely random for anyone to participate.

thanks, Randy

OK.  You can have contests if you want, I was just messin' wit'cha... 

[KPopFever605]

The mini Joker in upper left photo within the metal circle stating "Port Orleans". Good luck to the winners.

[RandyButterfield]

The mini Joker in upper left photo within the metal circle stating "Port Orleans". Good luck to the winners.

Sorry KPopFever605,

The contest ended this morning. The Jokers in the Art Prints are up above and here is a closer look at just the Cards on a white background.

thanks, Randy

[Aaron]

the jokers are beauts

[NathanCanadas]

the jokers are beauts

What else did you expect based on what we've seen so far? Everything so far is more than beautiful, from the backs, to the faces, to the chips.
As for the contest, I'm kicking myself right now. My intuition was one of the plates, but I thought that was too obvious, so I went for something much harder to find. I guess people are right when they tell you to always go with your first instinct.

[KPopFever605]

Oh, sorry about that Randy. Anyway, I do have to say that the Jokers look magnificent.

[RandyButterfield]

Thanks to everyone for the great response to the Jokers!

Since Wednesday is the 4th of July, I'm posting this week's reveal a day early. Today's reveal is the
Diamond Courts and Spade Courts! The Jacks will all have Joust Handles, the Queens have the "Floral"
shape from the Back Design and the Kings all have Sword Handles as part of the design.

The image below shows the Court cards and their corresponding Ace set in the 4UP ORNATE Art Prints.

thanks, Randy

[RandyButterfield]

Here's the Diamond Courts against a white background.

[RandyButterfield]

And finally here's the Spade Courts against a white background.

Sorry for the triple post. The size limit used to be 1,000 kb per post (or 750 kb?).
I just noticed it's changed to 1,000 kb per image and 5 images per post.
Next week I'll post the reveal in 1 separate posting.

thanks, Randy

[RandyButterfield]

Happy Fourth!
thanks, Randy

[RandyButterfield]

Hey Everyone,

Back again for another Tuesday Reveal. This week is two-fold. The first Reveal is the 2 Renders posted below. They are still images from the ORNATE Promo Animation. The second Reveal is a brand new Midnight Cards Facebook page!


http://www.facebook.com/midnightcards


The Facebook page has an organized collection of all of the images posted so far of the Cards, Poker Chips and 3d Renders. All of the Face Cards are on the page - except for the Hearts and Clubs Courts and the Gaff Cards. Those will be added after future Tuesday Reveals. Tucked away in the About section is a Design Story that explains my reasons for the different colored Face Cards and other design decisions. I have pasted it below in this posting for those who stay away from Facebook:



"When starting on the ORNATE series my goal was to create a "Black" deck of playing cards that was functional for a standard Poker game. I play Poker regularly and have noticed that every time we try to introduce a Black deck it wouldn't last more than a hand or two. The quick removal was usually due to the lack of suit color recognition and small Indice fonts in the corners. If Poker players can not easily tell what their opponents have face up, they are quick to boot a deck!

In my opinion the problem with the suit recognition stems from the Black background color. Almost everyone has grown up playing with standard, white background decks of cards. We are practically hardwired to associate Black with the Spade and Club suits and Red with the Heart and Diamond suits. So, when we see a Black background, our first instinct is to think "Spade or Club". Even the Red corner Indices and PIPs (for Hearts and Diamonds) wouldn't help much, as they are secondary to the abundance of Black. When playing a game like Poker this delay of suit color recognition could result in long and frustrating hands!

The first design element I wanted to incorporate into the ORNATES was a Red background for the Hearts and Diamonds and a Black/Dark Grey background for the Spades and Clubs. It's my theory that these different colored backgrounds would help achieve instant suit color recognition. They may not look standard in any sense, but I think anyone who gives the ORNATE Sapphire and Scarlet decks a chance at their next Poker Night will be pleasantly surprised at their functionality.

The decision to use a large, thick font for the corner Indices was to allow for easier card recognition from across a card table. A lot of custom decks are using aesthetically-pleasing fonts that may look great, but they aren't always large or bold enough to be readable from a few feet away. And lastly, I wanted to add a border to remove the chipping problem with Black decks. After playing around with the border details and overall design it became clear right away that I wanted to take the look into the Regal and ORNATE direction you see today!"

thanks, Randy

[RandyButterfield]

Here's today's ORNATE Tuesday Reveal: The Hearts and Clubs Court Cards!

thanks, Randy

[authorXD]

When can we expect to see this amazing deck on kickstarter? Oh, btw, a tip for kickstarter decks are don't ask too much. U said u liked circle city playing cards americana and revision 1, both started their custom tiers at $5 dollars and their response went through the roof! Ultraviolet, an amazing deck failed the first time because they started at $10 for a deck of cards. Set it at $5 dollars or $8 and you can count me as a backer.

[RandyButterfield]

When can we expect to see this amazing deck on kickstarter? Oh, btw, a tip for kickstarter decks are don't ask too much. U said u liked circle city playing cards americana and revision 1, both started their custom tiers at $5 dollars and their response went through the roof! Ultraviolet, an amazing deck failed the first time because they started at $10 for a deck of cards. Set it at $5 dollars or $8 and you can count me as a backer.

No Kickstarter. The Tuck Boxes are finished and the USPCC says the cards should be done in 2-3 weeks.
Unless something drastic happens they will be for sale in August.

thanks, Randy

[Don Boyer]

When can we expect to see this amazing deck on kickstarter? Oh, btw, a tip for kickstarter decks are don't ask too much. U said u liked circle city playing cards americana and revision 1, both started their custom tiers at $5 dollars and their response went through the roof! Ultraviolet, an amazing deck failed the first time because they started at $10 for a deck of cards. Set it at $5 dollars or $8 and you can count me as a backer.

No Kickstarter. The Tuck Boxes are finished and the USPCC says the cards should be done in 2-3 weeks.
Unless something drastic happens they will be for sale in August.

thanks, Randy

AuthorXD, did you check some of the older posts?  Randy said months ago that there's be no Kickstarter for this deck because he found private backing.

I'm really looking forward to seeing those decks in my hot little hands, bro!  Keep us posted!

[RandyButterfield]

Today's Reveals are a couple photos of the finished Tuck Boxes and a photo of the approved Proof of the Face Cards (a good peek at how the Uncut will look)! The Cards themselves are still in production, but they will be done soon.

thanks, Randy

[Lara Krystle "Lane"]

EVERYTHING looks AMAZING! EYE PORN! I swear. Sorry for that term but I really really love the Ornates!
From the card design, to the tuck box, to the art prints, to the POKERCHIPS. It is really a great deck of cards. And I just want to congratulate you, Randy, in advanced for doing such a great job with these!

xoxo
Lara

[RandyButterfield]

Thanks for the compliments Lara! I hope the finished cards live up to expectaions. I will starting a new ORNATE thread in the Playing Card Plethera for today's Reveal in a couple hours - it's a secret kept since January! I want to personally thank everyone who helped way back in the beginning with getting the borders to where they are today and helped take this past the Design & Development stage.

thanks, Randy