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The Silly Macabre Playing Card Art Deck KS

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The Silly Macabre Playing Card Art Deck KS
« on: November 28, 2014, 08:42:08 AM »
 

Rose

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An art deck of bridge size traditional playing cards with a silly macabre art theme.




https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1454789252/the-silly-macabre-playing-card-art-deck?ref=discovery
 

Re: The Silly Macabre Playing Card Art Deck KS
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2014, 10:24:46 AM »
 

sprouts1115

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Seems to be missing the thin black border in his JoD. 
 

Re: The Silly Macabre Playing Card Art Deck KS
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2014, 10:47:46 AM »
 

Rose

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Seems to be missing the thin black border in his JoD.
Whoa, you have a good eye for detail! Impressive.

About the cards. I like this cartoony art style. It is the type of deck that is not being to serious but has still retained the "traditional features" like the suicide king, so I know the artist has done some research. It is also refreshingly colorful too.
I am not sure who is printing the deck though...
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 04:00:10 AM by Rose »
 

Re: The Silly Macabre Playing Card Art Deck KS
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2014, 12:22:40 PM »
 

Will W.

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Seems to be missing the thin black border in his JoD.
Whoa, you have a good eye for detail! Impressive.

Okay, about the cards. I like this cartoony art style. It is the type of deck that is not being to serious but has still retained the "traditional features" like the suicide king, so I know the artist has done some research. It is also refreshingly colorful too.
I am not sure who is printing the deck though...
I really like what I see here. The cartoonish courts look good and I love the Aces. I actually think they look better minus the thin black border.
"I collect these objects to learn from them. In some moment these things are going to teach me something. For me, this is like a library. These are my books."
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Re: The Silly Macabre Playing Card Art Deck KS
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2014, 01:32:02 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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He needs to do something about those indices.  I bet you any money that if we played cards with these, I could identify the Kings in your hand by how widely you have to spread the deck.

He states that the design has to be bridge-sized.  Why?  Or is that part of the spiel he used to sell the deck?  It's hard to tell.

Yes, Will, they would be better without the additional border line.

Looking at the budget breakdown, it's a nice, orderly little list - completely devoid of profit, however.  He may want to rethink that!  He's probably working under the assumption that whatever he makes above the goal will be his profit.  But if he passes his goal by, say, a buck, he'll be paying himself practically nothing for a lot of work and effort.
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Re: The Silly Macabre Playing Card Art Deck KS
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2014, 01:29:05 AM »
 

Jeff Perryman

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sprouts1115 has a good eye indeed! Even I missed that in the print run, which these images are all from. However I rushed to look and found the missing boarder in on the playing card itself. Thank you for the catch! :D

Hello!
 I am Jeff Perryman the creator of the he Silly Macabre Playing Card Art Deck.
Rose invited me here to share insights, to hear your thoughts and to just have fun.

 

Re: The Silly Macabre Playing Card Art Deck KS
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2014, 02:10:57 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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sprouts1115 has a good eye indeed! Even I missed that in the print run, which these images are all from. However I rushed to look and found the missing boarder in on the playing card itself. Thank you for the catch! :D

Hello!
 I am Jeff Perryman the creator of the he Silly Macabre Playing Card Art Deck.
Rose invited me here to share insights, to hear your thoughts and to just have fun.

Welcome, Jeff, glad to have you here.

Don't take our comments as personal insults or anything like that - we're passionate about our cards so we can be harsh critics, but it's never personal.

What is the story with the budget?  If you just squeak over the goal it appears as though you'll be working for free, though you will have all those leftover decks to sell, too!

Why bridge-sized?  It's not a very popular format for collectors, though it is popular for children and people with small hands...

Please do something with your indices!  My comment about the king is true.  Ideally, an index is easy-to-read, clear and uniform in size, shape and position.  Look at a standard pack of cards - the values are twice the height of the pips and both are of a uniform width.  I'm not saying you have to mimic that exactly, but uniformity of some kind is important.  Standard decks play with the font in order to make a 2 the same width as a K or a 10.  It might look funny if you stretch and squeeze your lettering/numbering, but at the least you should find your widest value, probably the 10, place a suit pip under it, centered, and use that as the template for the location for all the pips on all the indices, centering the values over the pips.  It'll give the deck better functionality.

Losing the extra border line would improve the design, make it less cluttered.  These days the trend is actually for a completely unbordered court image.  Barring that, just go for less clutter.

Gotta say, the art's pretty fun!
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Re: The Silly Macabre Playing Card Art Deck KS
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2014, 02:55:05 AM »
 

Jeff Perryman

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Well thank you for having me.

I have been a dev and an artist for a very long time, so I have learned to never take comments personal. In fact I encourage frank commentary as it helps improve the project a great deal.

The budget is strictly to get the cards printed with as little fuss as possible. The plan is to sell the extra decks at conventions like Phoenix Comic Con, where I live, and others. To be honest, I never thought of this as a business but rather as something fun that my friends have been requesting I do. So based on my numbers it should all work out, BUT I have been known to be wrong. ;D

I chose the bridge size as it fit the aspect ratio of the prints best without too much tweaking of the art. I work in vectors so scale was not an issue going from an 11x17” to a 2x3.5”. As this is my first card deck, my choices were all based on the art and not the function, however anything that makes the product better, I am willing to look into. :D

The font (indices? still learning the terms) is the result of me taking so long from going from print to card. The font on the prints did not offer numeral s, which I discovered much later, and so as I was resizing I had to hunt down a font the looked similar and would work. My goal in the resizing was to remained faithful to the ordinal prints. Based on your suggestions, I have much to learn and I need to relook at the cards if I get funded so they will be clear and easy to use and read. Something coming at this as a pure art project I had not considered.

Thank you very much for this insight and suggestions  I am excited as I move forward to improving the cards.
 

Re: The Silly Macabre Playing Card Art Deck KS
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2014, 06:50:42 AM »
 

Rose

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Hi Jeff!
Thanks for joining us here and sharing with everyone.
The indices are the numbers and suits in the corners. Personally I like the overlapping letters, I think Don is saying that the K on the king is a little too close to centre.
As far as your budget goes plan for the unexpected, for example international packages require an extra $2 customs form to be filled in. Unless you have already planned for all that.

Anyway I REALLY love your art style! Well Done!
 

Re: The Silly Macabre Playing Card Art Deck KS
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2014, 06:05:53 PM »
 

Fess

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This deck reminds me of the online games I see the kids playing. Fun characters in a post hanna barbera style. I like that AoC haha, quite the thumper. The indices are a bit ouch, I agree. Font is off scale, I agree. The character that gives me a chuckle, and as a result I like best, is the prince charming looking Sun Joker wearing mary janes haha. Really though, there is a lot to like about this fun deck. Pretty charming work.
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Re: The Silly Macabre Playing Card Art Deck KS
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2014, 11:49:36 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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I chose the bridge size as it fit the aspect ratio of the prints best without too much tweaking of the art. I work in vectors so scale was not an issue going from an 11x17” to a 2x3.5”. As this is my first card deck, my choices were all based on the art and not the function, however anything that makes the product better, I am willing to look into. :D

Wait - double-check those measurements!

Narrow (bridge-sized) decks are 3.5 inches high by 2.25 inches wide, not 2.  A standard (poker-sized) deck is same height, 2.5 inches wide.
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Re: The Silly Macabre Playing Card Art Deck KS
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2014, 12:07:26 AM »
 

ATS

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At the moment, the Ace of Clubs literally bleeds into the edge, which would allow it to be spotted within the deck. The blood would need to be pulled back slightly to stop this from occurring.
 

Re: The Silly Macabre Playing Card Art Deck KS
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2014, 12:23:57 AM »
 

Fess

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At the moment, the Ace of Clubs literally bleeds into the edge, which would allow it to be spotted within the deck. The blood would need to be pulled back slightly to stop this from occurring.

Yea it does haha, looks great like that. Although not functional for a playing deck and I hope he does fix it. Still, love that look.
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Re: The Silly Macabre Playing Card Art Deck KS
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2014, 04:08:27 AM »
 

Jeff Perryman

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I love the feedback I am getting. It really does go to show I have much to learn.
It shows that I am at the “I do not know what I do not know” stage.

So my first question to all of you is “What is an ideal indice?”

Second is a correction, Don you are right and that is the measurement I am using for the Bridge deck, a 3.5X2.25 size.  I miss typed last night, sorry about the confusion. I am using a template from MPC to lay out the cards from the print art.

Do you all really think the blood dripping down on the AoC make that much difference? Again I am still learning.  :)
 

Re: The Silly Macabre Playing Card Art Deck KS
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2014, 04:27:53 AM »
 

Rose

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Do you all really think the blood dripping down on the AoC make that much difference? Again I am still learning.  :)
I don't know how serious these card games get! For me it is not a problem. I do not play high stakes games with large amounts of cash though, even if I did I would most likely be playing with a more traditional deck.
This deck is maybe for more friendly games, I am guessing.
 

Re: The Silly Macabre Playing Card Art Deck KS
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2014, 10:07:45 AM »
 

John B.

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I the indices look fine, just make sure they are all in the same proximity to the edge. And you could see where they ace of clubs was by looking at the bottom of the deck, bringing it up just a bit would take care of that and still have the same artistic effect.
Do you guys even read this? Like I could have the meaning of life here and I doubt you would know it.
 

Re: The Silly Macabre Playing Card Art Deck KS
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2014, 06:23:16 PM »
 

sprouts1115

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Seems to be missing the thin black border in his JoD.
Whoa, you have a good eye for detail! Impressive.

Okay, about the cards. I like this cartoony art style. It is the type of deck that is not being to serious but has still retained the "traditional features" like the suicide king, so I know the artist has done some research. It is also refreshingly colorful too.
I am not sure who is printing the deck though...
I really like what I see here. The cartoonish courts look good and I love the Aces. I actually think they look better minus the thin black border.

I have to agree.  It would look a lot better without the thin black border in his case. 

@Jiff Perryman - You got big balls.  I have never seen anyone put indices were you have them.  You do know there is a no mans land?  It's usually half way to cut border.  I see you're using Makeplayingcards.com It's the best place for demo decks.  It seems EPCC and Legends are a step up from MPC.  And of course USPCC is the holy grail or 800 pound gorilla as Don would say.  Who are going to make these?  Why are you using bridge cards?  Collectors seem to want poker size cards not bridge size cards.   

2nd look.  So far you have 2 black Jokers.  If you make the fire in the "Joker" the same color as your flames that would work.   The Red or fire Joker is more dominant than the black Joker.  Jokers are important... 
« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 06:45:27 PM by sprouts1115 »
 

Re: The Silly Macabre Playing Card Art Deck KS
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2014, 09:04:58 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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I love the feedback I am getting. It really does go to show I have much to learn.
It shows that I am at the “I do not know what I do not know” stage.

So my first question to all of you is “What is an ideal indice?”

Second is a correction, Don you are right and that is the measurement I am using for the Bridge deck, a 3.5X2.25 size.  I miss typed last night, sorry about the confusion. I am using a template from MPC to lay out the cards from the print art.

Do you all really think the blood dripping down on the AoC make that much difference? Again I am still learning.  :)

It's why I do consulting work for designers...  :))

Forgive Russell (sprouts1114) - he can get a little excited and over-enthusiastic, but he's basically a nice guy.

Printing the faces of some cards into the bleed in some areas and other in different areas or not at all is not good for functionality.  Those printed areas at the cut line can be identified at the edge of the deck, effectively rendering the cards marked.

Indices need to be easily and quickly identified.  They're generally placed as close into the top left and bottom right corners as is feasible, and they're uniformly placed.  In standard decks as well as many custom ones, they're also the same size from card to card.

MPC is popular for making prototype deck prints as they are considerably less costly than one from USPC - which is indeed the market leader, owing largely due to having purchased nearly every single competing company in the country.  And yes, Expert Playing Card Company and Legends Playing Card Company are both worthy competition to USPC - less costly and in the opinion of many collectors better quality.  MPC is improving in quality, but isn't quite up to the standards of those two companies.  It's worth at least getting a price quote from them.  They share a printing facility in Taipei that seems to work wonders on imported black-core stock, I believe imported from Germany.

It's an unfortunate fact of the custom deck market that most collectors uniformly collect poker-sized decks.  It's the size format where all the action is.  It will likely improve the sales of your deck if you altered the art to fit that format rather than choosing the format to fit the art.
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Re: The Silly Macabre Playing Card Art Deck KS
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2014, 06:39:27 AM »
 

Jeff Perryman

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Well I did say I encourage frank commentary. ;) Everyone has a passion, I am just now learning the qualities of this genre that bring that passion to the forefront.

In terms of moving the project from Bridged sized to Poker (or American Poker, seems to be two poker standards) is sadly moot as it is already launched and advertised as such. So the best I can do for this project, is to clean up the indices, and hunt up another quote or two to see if the other companies fall into my budget.

I have, however, been incorporating small things via the feedback such as the comments on the jokers needing to be red and black. I overlooked that detail and have now fixed it. Thank you.

I had originally planned not to do another card deck. I thought I would do just this one, something for my friends to play with and to get my art out into the world.
But with all this feedback and encouragement not to mention the fuss between Bridge and Poker sizes, it has got me thinking of another deck idea with a cleaner design as well as Poker sized.
The goal is not to make a living design cards, as I doubt I can truly do that. But I feel I need to do it one more time, to do it right, to prove to myself that I can.

So while this project is underway I'll take a few days, work up a prototype. I will post them in another thread and then we'll see where the passions lie.

Jeff
 

Re: The Silly Macabre Playing Card Art Deck KS
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2014, 03:31:45 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Well I did say I encourage frank commentary. ;) Everyone has a passion, I am just now learning the qualities of this genre that bring that passion to the forefront.

In terms of moving the project from Bridged sized to Poker (or American Poker, seems to be two poker standards) is sadly moot as it is already launched and advertised as such. So the best I can do for this project, is to clean up the indices, and hunt up another quote or two to see if the other companies fall into my budget.

I have, however, been incorporating small things via the feedback such as the comments on the jokers needing to be red and black. I overlooked that detail and have now fixed it. Thank you.

I had originally planned not to do another card deck. I thought I would do just this one, something for my friends to play with and to get my art out into the world.
But with all this feedback and encouragement not to mention the fuss between Bridge and Poker sizes, it has got me thinking of another deck idea with a cleaner design as well as Poker sized.
The goal is not to make a living design cards, as I doubt I can truly do that. But I feel I need to do it one more time, to do it right, to prove to myself that I can.

So while this project is underway I'll take a few days, work up a prototype. I will post them in another thread and then we'll see where the passions lie.

Jeff

Jokers being different colors is optional, depending on the audience you want for your deck.  Players might use the two differently colored jokers as trump cards, as I learned when I was taught a popular Spades variant.  Magicians would use two identical jokers to perform certain simple magic effects.  In the end, you make the choice you're happy with - there's no shortage of decks to appeal to those and many other varieties of playing card users.

Most modern playing cards come in just two sizes, though there are some others which are generally used as novelties or special printings.  For International Standard playing cards, it's also no longer "industry standard" to refer to them as "poker" and "bridge" sizes - they're called "Standard" and "Narrow".  It is still common for players to use the old terms, though.

Standard - 2.5" wide, 3.5" tall, formerly called "Poker"
Narrow - 2.25" wide, 3.5" tall, formerly called "Bridge"

In metric sizes:
Standard - 63.5mm wide, 88mm tall (a B8 size, using ISO 216 standards)
Narrow - 56mm wide, 88mm tall

It's possible that you thought the metric measure, not being the exact same as the "English" one, was a different size category.  Other, less common sizes would be patience or miniature/mini (1.75" wide, 2.375" high) which are used most as children's gifts or a deck for playing solitaire in a confined space, "travel" (1.25" wide, 3" tall) and "jumbo" (size varies, approximately four times the size of a standard card).  Honestly, I have yet to see the "travel" size deck anywhere, but I've heard of it and similar.  There's also tarot cartomancy decks, but these also vary in size to some degree, depending to some extent on which printer you choose - they're generally about as wide as standard but taller and printed on a less-expensive, lower-quality pasteboard as they aren't required to "perform" under rigorous playing conditions like a standard deck would on a typical game night.

There's a certain irony that in professional poker games, "poker-sized" cards are rarely used these days.  Narrow decks, originally made for the game bridge because you had to hold up to thirteen cards in your hand at once, became more popular for poker as it was easier to conceal the smaller cards with your hands when peeking at your cards on the table.  They also use plastic decks exclusively at the pro level for greater durability and the fact that they're more difficult to deface or deform using common methods for marking a paper deck on the fly while playing (in short, they're more "cheat-resistant").  Initially, poker players resisted the use of plastic because of the higher cost, but as costs have fallen and card quality have risen, most players realized that a pack of plastic cards would outlive several paper decks and was more cost-effective in the long run.

But I digress - I have a tendency to go on tangents!

Please, bring us your next design.  We'd be happy to chime in on it for you!
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