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What drives the prices of cards?

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What drives the prices of cards?
« on: September 29, 2018, 11:09:44 AM »
 

PurpleIce

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It's been a long time since i posted anything, but i would just like to get some thoughts on this topic.

Recently as i was going through my collection and cleaning it up, I came across a deck of Bicycle Full Moon.
As a collector, i think the special/limited edition is quite cool. Lenticular lens, (which fits the theme of a man turning into a werewolf), USPC printed, Bicycle branded, custom foil, limited to 1,500 decks...etc
A quick search on ebay and a deck costs about $20-30USD max?

Off the top of my head, i can think of:
Bicycle Titanic has individual seals containing information of each passenger.
Seven seas by brain vessel where four decks make up a beautiful mural.
Run Decks with hard neck and shoulder cases.
Simple changes but thought differently. I have over 5000+ decks or more in my collection so i would say i have seen enough to make a judgement.

So many unique decks, so many designers trying out new experiments. Yet a deck of fontaine colour change of 15,000 decks is $50-100 or sometimes even more? Don't get me wrong, i don't set the prices and i am happy to make (or have made 8) ) money out of the stacks of existing fontaines that i have. But i probably won't buy them off the market if i missed out on an edition. I've seen people (even more so than last time) do a colour change and slap a limited edition to sell more decks.

I'm just more curious to why are people forking out this absurd amount for a colour change? The stock/finish? The marketing? Or simply a fear of missing out (FOMO) because everyone else has a deck? If its cardistry we are talking about, then i believe there are lots of nicer/simpler looking backs in the market?  :-\ :-\ :mindf-ck:
 

Re: What drives the prices of cards?
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2018, 05:53:52 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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It's been a long time since i posted anything, but i would just like to get some thoughts on this topic.

Recently as i was going through my collection and cleaning it up, I came across a deck of Bicycle Full Moon.
As a collector, i think the special/limited edition is quite cool. Lenticular lens, (which fits the theme of a man turning into a werewolf), USPC printed, Bicycle branded, custom foil, limited to 1,500 decks...etc
A quick search on ebay and a deck costs about $20-30USD max?

Off the top of my head, i can think of:
Bicycle Titanic has individual seals containing information of each passenger.
Seven seas by brain vessel where four decks make up a beautiful mural.
Run Decks with hard neck and shoulder cases.
Simple changes but thought differently. I have over 5000+ decks or more in my collection so i would say i have seen enough to make a judgement.

So many unique decks, so many designers trying out new experiments. Yet a deck of fontaine colour change of 15,000 decks is $50-100 or sometimes even more? Don't get me wrong, i don't set the prices and i am happy to make (or have made 8) ) money out of the stacks of existing fontaines that i have. But i probably won't buy them off the market if i missed out on an edition. I've seen people (even more so than last time) do a colour change and slap a limited edition to sell more decks.

I'm just more curious to why are people forking out this absurd amount for a colour change? The stock/finish? The marketing? Or simply a fear of missing out (FOMO) because everyone else has a deck? If its cardistry we are talking about, then i believe there are lots of nicer/simpler looking backs in the market?  :-\ :-\ :mindf-ck:

There's exactly one thing and one thing only that drives the price of a deck of playing cards, particularly in the post-retail market: what the buyer is willing to pay for them, period, end of story.

I personally find the Fontaines to be as boring as watching paint dry.  The entire deck was supposedly bragged about by Zach Mueller for being designed in all of fifteen minutes.  I find garden-variety Aviators to be more interesting - and they're as generic as a deck design gets.  The color changes to the back design are even worse - thirty seconds to move a color slider in Photoshop and BAM, new limited edition deck.  That's not designing, in my opinion - that's just plain lazy, and I don't reward lazy with my money.  I'll grant that it's clever marketing, sure - but still lazy design.

But there are people out there who chase after the rarity, who want what's popular, and who are willing to pay the premium to get it.  Those Zach Mueller fans that can afford it are happy enough to spend all that money on post-retail Fontaines - and more power to them.  It means that fewer people are chasing after (and driving up the prices of) much better decks that I'm much fonder of!
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Re: What drives the prices of cards?
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2018, 10:32:51 AM »
 

PurpleIce

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It's been a long time since i posted anything, but i would just like to get some thoughts on this topic.

Recently as i was going through my collection and cleaning it up, I came across a deck of Bicycle Full Moon.
As a collector, i think the special/limited edition is quite cool. Lenticular lens, (which fits the theme of a man turning into a werewolf), USPC printed, Bicycle branded, custom foil, limited to 1,500 decks...etc
A quick search on ebay and a deck costs about $20-30USD max?

Off the top of my head, i can think of:
Bicycle Titanic has individual seals containing information of each passenger.
Seven seas by brain vessel where four decks make up a beautiful mural.
Run Decks with hard neck and shoulder cases.
Simple changes but thought differently. I have over 5000+ decks or more in my collection so i would say i have seen enough to make a judgement.

So many unique decks, so many designers trying out new experiments. Yet a deck of fontaine colour change of 15,000 decks is $50-100 or sometimes even more? Don't get me wrong, i don't set the prices and i am happy to make (or have made 8) ) money out of the stacks of existing fontaines that i have. But i probably won't buy them off the market if i missed out on an edition. I've seen people (even more so than last time) do a colour change and slap a limited edition to sell more decks.

I'm just more curious to why are people forking out this absurd amount for a colour change? The stock/finish? The marketing? Or simply a fear of missing out (FOMO) because everyone else has a deck? If its cardistry we are talking about, then i believe there are lots of nicer/simpler looking backs in the market?  :-\ :-\ :mindf-ck:

There's exactly one thing and one thing only that drives the price of a deck of playing cards, particularly in the post-retail market: what the buyer is willing to pay for them, period, end of story.

I personally find the Fontaines to be as boring as watching paint dry.  The entire deck was supposedly bragged about by Zach Mueller for being designed in all of fifteen minutes.  I find garden-variety Aviators to be more interesting - and they're as generic as a deck design gets.  The color changes to the back design are even worse - thirty seconds to move a color slider in Photoshop and BAM, new limited edition deck.  That's not designing, in my opinion - that's just plain lazy, and I don't reward lazy with my money.  I'll grant that it's clever marketing, sure - but still lazy design.

But there are people out there who chase after the rarity, who want what's popular, and who are willing to pay the premium to get it.  Those Zach Mueller fans that can afford it are happy enough to spend all that money on post-retail Fontaines - and more power to them.  It means that fewer people are chasing after (and driving up the prices of) much better decks that I'm much fonder of!

Ah!! Boyer!! I've been out of action for a year or 2 and i missed you and your comments.   :D :D :D

I just find it kind of sad that i listed few hundred unique decks on a selling platform, and i just keep getting asked about the same few decks. Some i feel are great like DB's Gatorbacks, or those from KWP. But more often than not, it is as what you said, those "boring" decks with probably much more greater emphasis on marketing. I just wished there was a better price grading for playing cards.
 

Re: What drives the prices of cards?
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2018, 11:47:55 PM »
 

Kevin Dixler

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I agree.  There are some who into Golden Nugget Casino decks.  It is whatever floats ones boat.  If the seller wants to sell it and the buyer agrees with the sellers price, then the transaction takes place.  Mind you, another seller may post the same exact GN deck for $5 and when no ones looking someone who wants it may buy it without a second thought believing that the first deck was overpriced, but the second posted GN deck was set at a reasonable one.  Frankly, I'm not into GN decks, was familiar with the decks in the 70s, when the casino was practically giving them away, and had no particular desire for one not knowing that some go crazy over those, among others.


What you need to do when valuating a card or deck is (a) condition (sealed, unsealed, used, excellent condition, good, fair, etc.)  (b) is the card/deck commonly on the market or not so much (e.g. can I buy it on eBay, Etsy, Amazon? 52 Plus Convention? If so, is one source more reasonable than the others?)  (d) category (is it in a popular category (e.g. steam ships, airlines, beer)  (e) If advertising, is the company out of business? (f) Is the card a joker, ace of spade, or facecard?  If so, is the joker, ace or face card very unique or unusual?

There are likely other questions to consider when placing a value on cards or decks.  The collector needs to decide what to collect, but in playing cards, its easy to get distracted.  Find a category that you like and collect it.  Don't let others dissuade you with their likes, but hearing or reading what they think may help you to better appreciate or understand, which may have an impact upon what you collect.  In the end, just have fun.  Know when to say when.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2018, 11:48:15 PM by Kevin Dixler »
 

Re: What drives the prices of cards?
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2018, 03:10:45 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Ah!! Boyer!! I've been out of action for a year or 2 and i missed you and your comments.   :D :D :D

I just find it kind of sad that i listed few hundred unique decks on a selling platform, and i just keep getting asked about the same few decks. Some i feel are great like DB's Gatorbacks, or those from KWP. But more often than not, it is as what you said, those "boring" decks with probably much more greater emphasis on marketing. I just wished there was a better price grading for playing cards.

Yup, still here, still steering the ship...  ;)

There's something everyone in this business/hobby needs to remember: "unique" does not necessarily mean "great."  Sometimes, it doesn't even mean "good!"  I make something "unique" every time I sit down to use the bathroom - I don't see people beating a path to my bathroom door asking for it...

It's not the kind of thing where you go into it thinking, "Oh, I'll just buy a bunch of rare decks, hang on to them a little while, sell 'em off on eBay and retire early..."  That's VERY, VERY UNLIKELY to happen.  There will be a handful of decks that are highly sought after as well as scarce, decks that will consistently go up in price the older and more scarce they become.  But the majority of decks will be barely remembered in ten years, thus when offered for sale ten years after release, more people will shrug than will crack open their wallets looking for the big bills.  You might make back what they cost you - or less, if they really weren't all that good in the first place (and if you adjust for inflation, you're probably losing money anyway, especially on decks where you're barely doing better than break-even).

You look at a hundred-year-old deck today, people are interested.  Why?  No one treated playing cards like anything other than disposable ephemera back then, so that hundred-year-old deck is likely to be scarce, and even in less-than-perfect condition will be worth a pretty penny for its scarcity alone.  It's why Action Comics #1 is so insanely valuable - it's not just the first appearance of an iconic comic book character, but it's also incredibly rare, a relic from an era where most comic books ended up in landfills after kids smeared them with chocolate and greasy fingerprints, tore off the covers, used them to pick up the dust after sweeping, etc.; they were considered highly disposable and not meant to last.

By contrast, look at the comic book Death of Superman #1.  It was printed in massive numbers, snatched up by millions of fanboys and "investors," stashed into Mylar baggies with back boards to keep them from getting bent and shelved away in the hopes of a future sale to pay for some little tyke's college education.  Those "investors" were very disappointed.  Few comic books were printed in larger numbers - there are hundred of thousands if not millions of copies in circulation.  Many if not most of them are treated from day one like collectibles, which conversely ends up REDUCING their value because of an utter lack of scarcity.  Superman didn't stay dead, so the story's a bit of a misnomer, to boot.  Comic book stores can't give the damn things away today, they're so undesirable - any collector who wanted it, has it; tons of supply, very little demand.

I'm using an extreme example, but think of what the vast majority of comic books are worth today.  They might go up a little bit in value, or if they were pretty well marked up in the first place, might even LOSE value.  There's a bit of a glut in the marketplace right now, with dozens and hundreds of titles being released in a given month - the only saving grace being that as publishing anything on paper is gradually going the way of the dodo bird and the buggy whip, publishers are printing these titles in smaller numbers, opting for online sales of digital copies wherever possible.  Maybe in a hundred years, if some of these titles are thought of as valuable artifacts of a culture, they'll go up in value some, but a lot of them will simply not be worth all that much - and the same exact thing holds for playing cards, no matter how fancy or "unique" or pretty they are.

So what's the point?

The point is that you don't buy these things because you think you're going to retire off the proceeds of your collection when you sell it.  The point is that you LOVE PLAYING CARDS!  You buy what you like, you get pleasure from it, it makes you happy to have it - and if you're really that kind of hedonist, you even USE them, busting out a pack for a few rounds of solitaire or a game night with the kids or the Saturday poker game.  It's not about their future worth and it never will be - you'll have a tiny amount of your collection go up significantly in value, but a lot of it really won't, period, because there are just too many decks out there and the general public doesn't see them as being all that collectible - they see them as a disposable, consumable, household good.  They don't even have the level of popular cultural value that comic books hold today, and may never achieve that level.  They do have a longer cultural history, and they do have value for their versatility in terms of entertainment and the hundreds and hundreds of different games one can play with them, not to mention their other uses.  But Joe Average doesn't see them as terribly valuable and may never see them as such, so overall, they're not going to get all that valuable.
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Re: What drives the prices of cards?
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2018, 10:22:23 AM »
 

zenismighty

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I think that there are many factors that determine price.

Hype
Rarity
Condition
Personal Preference

I am an avid pen collector and some of my favorites are not expensive, nor are they rare. I would pay more than market for a good version of it though.
 

Re: What drives the prices of cards?
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2018, 03:30:13 PM »
 

Eddie Hughlett

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Is it just me or has there been a recent surge in pen collectables? Seems I'm seeing them everywhere and some of the custom pens are very nice to look at, but I have no idea as to the quality of the mechanism. Any tips what to keep an eye out for?

-eh
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Re: What drives the prices of cards?
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2018, 06:59:29 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Is it just me or has there been a recent surge in pen collectables? Seems I'm seeing them everywhere and some of the custom pens are very nice to look at, but I have no idea as to the quality of the mechanism. Any tips what to keep an eye out for?

-eh

It’s a question best left for a different board, like the Parlor. Can we keep it to cards here, folks?

But on a related topic there was a guy at the convention named Patterson Grant selling some awesome pens with playing cards in the barrel graphics. Really good, seamless work.  I bought a Bicycle Scorpion off of him and a different pen for my wife.


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Card Illusionist, NYC Area
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