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Question about Casino Decks

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Question about Casino Decks
« on: August 08, 2014, 05:26:58 PM »
 

publius

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Hey guys - I'm new here and new to collecting. I found some used casino decks here locally in pretty good condition for only about a dollar a deck. What are the things to look for in these decks? Are they desirable? I'm a Bicycle fan first and foremost, but i didn't want to pass up a good opportunity if it in fact is one. Thanks!
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Re: Question about Casino Decks
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2014, 07:35:19 PM »
 

jupiter3

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These are great for the weekly poker game, since they are mostly broken in already.  I have lots of these (you can even find them cheaper that $1/box) for playing around with.  They are not collectable nor do they match the level of Artistry found in decks Retail decks.  If you find some without the hole drilled in the middle or the corners cut off, all the better.  Have fun with these decks but most would not consider them part of their "collection".

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Re: Question about Casino Decks
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2014, 09:42:17 PM »
 

publius

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Kind of what i thought. Thanks!
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Re: Question about Casino Decks
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2014, 01:25:02 AM »
 

Will W.

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I collect them just for the novelty of it. I currently have over 80 different casinos. Some as cheap as $1 some much more costly.  I say if they appeal to you then it's worth collecting or as my wife calls it "hoarding".  :bosswalk:
"I collect these objects to learn from them. In some moment these things are going to teach me something. For me, this is like a library. These are my books."
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Re: Question about Casino Decks
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2014, 05:47:28 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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The term for the decks with drill holes or cut corners, perhaps with magic marker along the sides, is that they're canceled.  They were used on the casino floor for actual game play and in accordance with whatever gaming authority holds sway, they have to be canceled before they can be released for resale or disposed of.  These days, the cards will have been used probably at a blackjack table or maybe baccarat, though the latter isn't as popular in the US as it is in Europe and Asia - poker these days is usually played with plastic decks.

Anyway, after use for anywhere from either a couple of hours to as long as a whole shift (eight hours), they cards are taken from play.  In Nevada, prison laborers will sort out the loose cards into complete decks (no jokers or extras) and cancel them - drilling was common up to a decade or so ago, but now sawing off the corner is more popular, box and all, because it's much harder to conceal and keeps cheats from trying to reintroduce the cards to the tables.  That's what's in the "dollar-or-less" box at the store.

They're a little broken in, but are actually fairly clean since any casino still using paper cards these days doesn't permit the player to touch the cards - it's too easy to put improvised marks on them - plus many casinos are equipped with autoshufflers, so the cards really don't have a lot of contact with people.  Aside from the novelty factor, they're largely considered noncollectable except by those who have a fondness for them.  Simply stated, used cards are never as popular as new ones.

The uncanceled decks are the ones that are harder to obtain.  When a casino changes the colors or designs on the card backs, the leftover unused cards in the old color/pattern can be "disposed of" without needing to be canceled.  As this doesn't happen often, and often when there's little of the old stock left, sealed and uncanceled casino decks are generally a bit scarce and are considered very collectible.  Some also have excellent handling properties and shuffle very nicely (most casinos have their decks traditionally cut, which gives them better shuffling characteristics out of the box than other off-the-shelf decks).

Occasionally, there's enough of a design effort put into them that they're pretty attractive as well, but more often than not they're quite generic other than the casino's logo or name branding on the back.  Typically they'll have a diamond back pattern (like Bees off the shelf), a "stinger" pattern (same but with fade-to-white edges on the backs and with either bees or four pips in a row in tiny ovals on the corners) or a solid color with a logo.
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Re: Question about Casino Decks
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2014, 11:31:22 AM »
 

publius

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Very good information. Yes, these decks were all cancelled with rounded corners. A couple were sortof interesting, but i figured uncancelled decks would be more desirable if i could find any. Whats the deal with jerrys nugget? I assume these are an example of very desirable uncancelled decks? Whats the story here, and why are they so coveted compared to other casino decks?
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Re: Question about Casino Decks
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2014, 03:54:35 PM »
 

BenMorrisRains

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Jerry's are coveted mainly because of the hype that surrounds them. Mainly magicians are the ones that desire this deck. A lot of prolific magicians in the past and present have used them and raved about their quality and the way they handle. They were printed on presses and paper that no longer exist and it is said due to environmental reasons, they can not be reproduced.

When the casino was demolished an unknown source bought the remaining stock of cards and is the only person in the world who has majority of these cards. It's rumored it was Chris Kenner, an awesome magician as well as David Copperfield's right hand man.

At the end of the day they are just cards but with all the mystery and hype that surrounds them the price for them seems to only be going up.
 

Re: Question about Casino Decks
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2014, 05:11:48 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Jerry's are coveted mainly because of the hype that surrounds them. Mainly magicians are the ones that desire this deck. A lot of prolific magicians in the past and present have used them and raved about their quality and the way they handle. They were printed on presses and paper that no longer exist and it is said due to environmental reasons, they can not be reproduced.

When the casino was demolished an unknown source bought the remaining stock of cards and is the only person in the world who has majority of these cards. It's rumored it was Chris Kenner, an awesome magician as well as David Copperfield's right hand man.

At the end of the day they are just cards but with all the mystery and hype that surrounds them the price for them seems to only be going up.

Hey, Ben - a few little corrections.

  • The Jerry's Nugget Casino wasn't destroyed.  It caters more to a local crowd these days.  In fact, this year is the casino's 50th anniversary.  Check it out: http://www.jerrysnugget.com/
  • The biggest reason they were popular with Vegas magicians was that they were cheap and handled like a higher quality deck for the price.  I think they first went on sale at 50 cents a pack in the gift shop.  The handling of the deck was said to improve with age and gentle-to-moderate use, indicating that they must have had a sizable breaking-in period.  Many of the magicians who used them thought they were kind of ugly - and I'm inclined to agree.  But that's my opinion, not a statement of fact.
  • It was in the '90s when the remaining stock was purchased.  No one knows how many were made, but it's been estimated at 40,000 - and how many of them survive is also unknown, since many were likely torn open by kids, played with over and over, got bent corners, torn boxes, etc. because they were sold to non-collectors at a time when collecting was practically unheard of.
  • They weren't made with environmentally-dangerous chemicals - I learned that's an urban legend.  But they were made with manufacturing processes that no longer exist because of how expensive they were compared to modern methods.  They were traditionally cut, had embossing only on one side of the cards (I don't know which, I never owned any), the embossing was in the coating and not in the paper like on modern decks and they were traditionally cut.  Everything but the single-sided embossing was common practice at the time for USPC and many other manufacturers.
  • The biggest reason why they're as expensive as they are today isn't simply hype - it's speculators.  People are buying up the decks with no intent to ever use them, instead waiting for the value to appreciate even further into the stratosphere before selling them off and "making a killing" in the market.  They're going to be so disappointed when the market bubble finally bursts...  Many people are buying them at prices so high, they may never appreciate much more than what was already paid for them and will likely lose a good deal of their value in the not-too-distant future.  My advice to speculators would be to sell now while the iron is still hot, 'cause it won't stay that way much longer.  But again, just my opinion...
« Last Edit: August 09, 2014, 05:12:23 PM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Question about Casino Decks
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2014, 07:28:53 PM »
 

BenMorrisRains

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Vernon, Jennings, Marlo used them, Buck Twins, etc. I think hype plays a big part into it, but I guess that's just me.

I personally don't mind the back design as I am more inclined to simple backs than intricate ones. I keep an eye out for these at garage sales and the good will, because most people would have no clue that they have any value.

And I was thinking of the Dunes as far as being defunct. My bad!
 

Re: Question about Casino Decks
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2014, 10:25:02 PM »
 

Rob Wright

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As far as casino decks. If it's something that interest you. Go for it. It's a cheap way to collect a bunch of different deck. There are a boat load of different casinos, both open & closed. What a deck is worth to you is all that matters. I buy decks based on what I like. I have no interest in a Jerry's Nugget deck. The design looks like something I could do in 5 minutes. The point of it is, if there is a deck you love. The money you pay for it, is what it's worth to you. Don't go overpay for a deck because you think you have to have it to be a collector.
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Re: Question about Casino Decks
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2014, 10:44:17 PM »
 

Will W.

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The point of it is, if there is a deck you love. The money you pay for it, is what it's worth to you. Don't go overpay for a deck because you think you have to have it to be a collector.
Exactly.... I collect decks of all sorts...new & used & of all genres.  I like them all equally.  They are art and even better they are history. They represent someone or some thing or even an idea at times. I get two types of history from each of my decks. Their actual history and my history with them. I love to look at a deck and recall where and when I found them.
It's all about what they mean to me not what I paid for them or their monetary value.. Although it's another kind of high to get a steal on a valuable find.   :D
Some of my favorites would have little to no value to most.
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Re: Question about Casino Decks
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2014, 12:22:04 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Vernon, Jennings, Marlo used them, Buck Twins, etc. I think hype plays a big part into it, but I guess that's just me.

I personally don't mind the back design as I am more inclined to simple backs than intricate ones. I keep an eye out for these at garage sales and the good will, because most people would have no clue that they have any value.

And I was thinking of the Dunes as far as being defunct. My bad!

Please understand, I do believe that hype plays into it, but only to a point.  If I took the average speculator and asked him about Vernon, Jennings and Marlo, he'd think I was talking about a new downtown law firm...  To magicians, they're the OG crew.  To the rest of the world, they're barely a footnote.

I live in David Blaine's home city and base of operations, but you'd be shocked at the number of people I've encountered here who have no idea who the man is, despite the number of national TV specials he's appeared in and record-breaking endurance stunts he's performed.  This guy was grabbing international headlines and I'm getting dumbfounded looks when I say his name.

The Buck twins would carry even less name-brand recognition among the general "Muggle" populace, though I was surprised to find them advertising their wares on a web-posted article in the New York Times a few days ago.

The point being - there are people who are buying solely for the fact that other people are buying and the price is rising as a result.  It's rare (actually more like rare-ish compared to some decks) and its value is still appreciating, though for how much longer is anyone's guess.  And it's not a "casino deck" in the sense that it was a design never used on the casino floor - it's actually more like a souvenir deck!  It was thought to have been possibly made for casino use but were simply overlooked, but the text on the extra cards leads me to believe that they were never intended for floor use.

Yeah, I understand about the Dunes - there's so many blasted casinos in Vegas it's hard to keep them straight!  I was in Atlantic City last month at a hotel that will no longer exist by month's end, which was next door to another soon-to-be-defunct hotel - they're dropping like pennies from the Observation Deck of the Empire State Building in the pre-9/11/2001 days.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 12:28:49 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Question about Casino Decks
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2014, 11:45:48 AM »
 

Card Player

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Hey guys - I'm new here and new to collecting. I found some used casino decks here locally in pretty good condition for only about a dollar a deck. What are the things to look for in these decks? Are they desirable? I'm a Bicycle fan first and foremost, but i didn't want to pass up a good opportunity if it in fact is one. Thanks!

As a collector who has bought some casino decks, there are a few things to look for that can set a casino deck apart from any common casino deck. I think most here would agree.

1. Are they sealed, unused and uncanceled? In most collecting instances, new and unopened items get top dollar over opened and used. Even worse, a used deck with clipped corners or a hole drilled in it (canceled).

2. What type of casino deck are they? Poker sized gets better value then Bridge sized. Standard index gets better value then Jumbo or Tech index.

3. Condition always plays a part in value and how desirable any deck is. This can also be included in the new or used area.

4. How unique is the deck to the particular casino? Are they sample decks? Was the casino name around for a short period. Were the decks made to be used but were only then sold as souvenirs? etc...

Just a few things I look for before buying casino decks. Casino decks are strange in that they could be worth something with all the things I mentioned above or worth absolutely nothing other then a nice memory of Vegas.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 12:13:39 PM by Card Player »
 

Re: Question about Casino Decks
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2014, 12:44:37 PM »
 

publius

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Great information and history all the way around. I certainly can appreciate the idea of value being in the eye of the beholder. My favorite deck i own is a standard blue rider back deck from 97 or 98 that has a green ibm computer sweepstakes banner printed on the front. Its in near perfect condition and still has all of the original cards including the game piece entry card for the computer. Its probably worth only retail value or less, but to me, i cant imagine there being a lot of these floating around. Its a special deck to me. Anyone remember or familiar with it?
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 12:45:38 PM by publius »
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Re: Question about Casino Decks
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2014, 01:16:43 PM »
 

Will W.

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Great information and history all the way around. I certainly can appreciate the idea of value being in the eye of the beholder. My favorite deck i own is a standard blue rider back deck from 97 or 98 that has a green ibm computer sweepstakes banner printed on the front. Its in near perfect condition and still has all of the original cards including the game piece entry card for the computer. Its probably worth only retail value or less, but to me, i cant imagine there being a lot of these floating around. Its a special deck to me. Anyone remember or familiar with it?
Yes... I actually have that deck in my collection although mine shows some wear on the tuck.  The cards are perfect and complete.  I have seen this deck one other time and that was in an antique store in about the same shape as mine.  They valued it at $8 but I venture to guess it's still sitting there for that price. My guess is that they produced tons of these for their advertising campaign but their may not be so many left. It would be awesome to get your hands on one of the winning "Green Aces".  That would be about as rare as it gets, if any still exist. 

Edit:  I actually have the red rider back deck.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 01:25:48 PM by Stircrazy76 »
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Re: Question about Casino Decks
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2014, 02:50:43 PM »
 

Magic_Orthodoxy

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They are not collectable nor do they match the level of Artistry found in decks Retail decks.

Could not disagree more.

Anything can be collectible if there is an interest. And lots of people collect casino decks - I for one!!!! I have like 45 right now and I will always throw one onto the conveyor belt if I see a color or interesting design. Not to mention I have some some gorgeous casino decks that blow the "artistry" of  any "retail" deck out of the water.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 02:52:28 PM by Magic_Orthodoxy »
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Re: Question about Casino Decks
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2014, 03:29:53 PM »
 

publius

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Awesome that you have that same deck! Yes, the green ace would be an epic find. I would imagine a complete deck with this would be quite valuable.
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Re: Question about Casino Decks
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2014, 03:36:12 PM »
 

Will W.

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Awesome that you have that same deck! Yes, the green ace would be an epic find. I would imagine a complete deck with this would be quite valuable.
Only 10 were made and were turned in for a free $1100 PC so I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that if any do still exist they would almost surely have to be in the possession of someone involved with the company and/or promotional campaign. I'm gonna keep my eyes open though because you never know.   ???
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