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The Most Awesome Poker Set in the World (w/custom cards-KS)

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The Most Awesome Poker Set in the World (w/custom cards-KS)
« on: October 10, 2013, 10:59:06 PM »
 

Rob Wright

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The Most Awesome Poker Set in the World

Project by Jonathan Beekman
Website: mancrates.com
First created, $21,000 goal, $12 for 1, $20 for 2 decks, Get a poker set w/2 decks, 300 chips in a Army can starting at $119
USPC printing

The cards

Quote
We created a beautiful Greek Sphinx, inscribed inside a spade with two armfuls of arrows to create the definitive insignia for the corp of hyper-aggressive, deceptive, no-limit hold'em players. The sphinx forced travelers on the road to answer her riddles or be devoured- she embodies the poker player that forces her opponents to make difficult decisions, often for all of their chips. The arrows are drawn from the US seal, representing readiness for war on both fronts. There is no olive branch in poker.
           

Quote
Inspired by some of the other amazing card projects on Kickstarter, we designed custom deck faces to match set.  We've got a minimum batch of 2,500 decks to run to print with the US Playing Card Company, so we really need Kickstarter's help to get this out the door. Here's a bunch of the draft designs we mocked up for discussion.
     

Quote
Here are the two designs we think make the best set. Nothing's been printed yet- if there's overwhelming support for a different design from our early backers we could offer different decks.


                                   
Last night I stayed up late playing poker with Tarot cards. I got a full house and four people died.

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Re: The Most Awesome Poker Set in the World (w/custom cards-KS)
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2013, 11:22:18 PM »
 

Card Player

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As longtime poker players with a slew of chip tricks, we refused to compromise on chip weight or feel, so we sourced casino quality, 11.5 gram composite poker chips in custom colors.

The chips are not casino quality. Casino quality is Paulson clay chips which cost around .95 cents per chip. Its not even a ceramic chip. These are composite wholesale poker chips.

Why are they using a T11 Monarch AoS in the video?

Where is the sets signature dealer button? How can we call this "the most awesome poker set in the world" without the dealer button?

Quote
We're going to ship all these poker sets in time for the holidays. It's aggressive, but we've got this going for us:

We're design complete
We're working with people that we already know and trust
We're running a very short Kickstarter campaign

The timeline is a joke. Which holiday are they talking about? If USPCC is printing, Not this Christmas. Maybe independence day 2014.

They should have named this "most awesome poker set case". Just incase your home is on fire and you lose all your valuables, your cheap poker set will be safe in its fireproof case. Can we really say it's fire and water proof? Are those chips really not going to melt in the heat of a fire? Are the cards not going to get wet if we dunk the case in a pool of water?
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 12:00:05 AM by Anonymous »
 

Re: The Most Awesome Poker Set in the World (w/custom cards-KS)
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2013, 06:46:11 AM »
 

Sovereign

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Ref: the timeline, don't forget that the payment doesn't clear for more than 2 weeks after the close date of the 9th. Even if they press go with the printers as soon as the project hits its funding target rather than waiting until the cash clears, the turnaround time for the project looks extraordinarily ambitious. Ready for Christmas? What a thing to promise, I can imagine a few people having an empty space under the Christmas tree this year.
 

Re: The Most Awesome Poker Set in the World (w/custom cards-KS)
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2013, 10:33:17 AM »
 

Paul.Middleton

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Ready for Christmas? What a thing to promise, I can imagine a few people having an empty space under the Christmas tree this year.

I was thinking that myself, seems very much a case of "over-promise, under-deliver".

I must admit when I first saw this (and the headline description) I was expecting to be blown away.
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Re: The Most Awesome Poker Set in the World (w/custom cards-KS)
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2013, 10:56:34 AM »
 

ronyo_faukx

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Ready for Christmas? What a thing to promise, I can imagine a few people having an empty space under the Christmas tree this year.

I was thinking that myself, seems very much a case of "over-promise, under-deliver".

I must admit when I first saw this (and the headline description) I was expecting to be blown away.

I agree. They seem to have purposely left the project very open-ended with the decision-making in the hands of your typical KS user. This project could be trouble.

IMHO what they should have done was pick 2 contrasting designs they liked and started with those, with a choice of an additional one as a stretch goal.

I do like the design for the sphinx, as well as the description as to why they included the elements they did.

It also surprises me that they seem to have done little to no research beforehand, else they would have realised that two-way backs are necessary for any POKER set, as well as the complete lack of foresight with regard to international backers.
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Re: The Most Awesome Poker Set in the World (w/custom cards-KS)
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2013, 11:49:26 AM »
 

Paul.Middleton

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as well as the complete lack of foresight with regard to international backers.

I would imagine that those 'man-crates' are very, very expensive to ship and probably means they would get more unfair criticism than international backers. If that's the case, I probably would have done the same if there was no sensible price for international delivery.
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Re: The Most Awesome Poker Set in the World (w/custom cards-KS)
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2013, 11:54:17 AM »
 

Anthony

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Quote
I must admit when I first saw this (and the headline description) I was expecting to be blown away.
My exact reaction....

The cards themselves have potential, I like the design. Everything else attached to this is a bit on the..."Fluff" side of things. Shipping is such a big issue now a days that I'm surprised more projects aren't paying closer attention to the long term problem it may cause when your including things like these cases.

As for the deadline....gonna be some very upset backers if this thing actually hit's it goal.
 

Re: The Most Awesome Poker Set in the World (w/custom cards-KS)
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2013, 12:07:26 PM »
 

Sovereign

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Also, don't you hate it when you spill your poker chips!?
http://www.buzzfeed.com/julianbrand/40-gifs-of-stupid-infomercial-people-6eof
 

Re: The Most Awesome Poker Set in the World (w/custom cards-KS)
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2013, 03:28:57 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Assuming the ammo box is properly maintained, it would be waterproof.  Not fireproof.

The cards - did you happen to notice that they look like ZAZZLE decks?  Especially the zillion different back variants?

It's a cute gift idea of you chuck the cards, use off-the-shelf USPC (except Mavericks) and cut the price in half.  The cards are a stupid idea in this case.
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Re: The Most Awesome Poker Set in the World (w/custom cards-KS)
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2013, 06:15:56 PM »
 

Card Player

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Assuming the ammo box is properly maintained, it would be waterproof.  Not fireproof.

The cards - did you happen to notice that they look like ZAZZLE decks?  Especially the zillion different back variants?

It's a cute gift idea of you chuck the cards, use off-the-shelf USPC (except Mavericks) and cut the price in half.  The cards are a stupid idea in this case.

Without bashing it. If they simply sold the mold and case itself, they would have something (no chips, no cards). $119 early bird, $134 after early bird... Yea I can probably put something together for less w/ better quality poker chips.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 06:17:55 PM by Anonymous »
 

Re: The Most Awesome Poker Set in the World (w/custom cards-KS)
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2013, 11:22:55 PM »
 

Rob Wright

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I see several issues with this project

Never going to shipped by Christmas
Don't lie about the chips-Quality heavy weight composite chips-maybe- Casino grade-No
2 different color backs means 5,000 decks, not 2,500
$21,000 for 5,000 decks, cases(w/logo printing), injection molding for chip holder, lots of chips(44 sets already accounted for = 13,200), packaging/shipping, KS/Amazon fees. ? I don't think that will be enough money

$6,100 after 1 1/2 days- looks like it will possibly get funded- Good Luck backers.
Last night I stayed up late playing poker with Tarot cards. I got a full house and four people died.

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Re: The Most Awesome Poker Set in the World (w/custom cards-KS)
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2013, 11:46:56 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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I see several issues with this project

Never going to shipped by Christmas
Don't lie about the chips-Quality heavy weight composite chips-maybe- Casino grade-No
2 different color backs means 5,000 decks, not 2,500
$21,000 for 5,000 decks, cases(w/logo printing), injection molding for chip holder, lots of chips(44 sets already accounted for = 13,200), packaging/shipping, KS/Amazon fees. ? I don't think that will be enough money

$6,100 after 1 1/2 days- looks like it will possibly get funded- Good Luck backers.

I think it's less that they're lying about the chips being casino grade, more about this guy really not knowing the difference.  He sees chips that aren't cheap interlocking plastic and thinks, "Wow, casino grade!"

The chips are pretty cheap - I see them in inexpensive gift sets in toy stores.  But the decks alone can cost close to what he's asking for, unless his idea of "made by USPC" also includes Zazzle decks.  In theory, he wouldn't be wrong, per se, but he wouldn't be very right, either.  As far as I can tell, Zazzle gets uncut sheets with pre-made faces from USPC, then prints the backs on them afterwards.  It's part of why they handle so poorly, or so I'm told.

Like I said - ditch the decks and use some good, off-the-shelf playing cards, and you've got a decent poker kit here.
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Re: The Most Awesome Poker Set in the World (w/custom cards-KS)
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2013, 11:54:14 PM »
 

kdklown

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They posted over on UC.  They are the owners of ManCrates.  They are apparently aware they could be upside down on the project but plan on rolling some capital from their website in if there is interest enough to meet their goal.  I assume they will just resell the leftovers on their site.  Don't know if this helps clear anything up, just thought I should chime in with the info from the horses mouth. 
 

Re: The Most Awesome Poker Set in the World (w/custom cards-KS)
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2013, 03:44:22 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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They posted over on UC.  They are the owners of ManCrates.  They are apparently aware they could be upside down on the project but plan on rolling some capital from their website in if there is interest enough to meet their goal.  I assume they will just resell the leftovers on their site.  Don't know if this helps clear anything up, just thought I should chime in with the info from the horses mouth.

Makes sense.  Seriously, the deck(s) was/were a bad idea.  The ammo box poker kit, however, is hardcore brilliant.
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Re: The Most Awesome Poker Set in the World (w/custom cards-KS)
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2013, 05:06:17 AM »
 

Sovereign

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My assumption (and they kind of say as much in the KS video) is that they don't need Kickstarter for capital, they are just using it as a means to get more exposure, which isn't really what it's for but whatever.

Phill
 

Re: The Most Awesome Poker Set in the World (w/custom cards-KS)
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2013, 05:46:17 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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My assumption (and they kind of say as much in the KS video) is that they don't need Kickstarter for capital, they are just using it as a means to get more exposure, which isn't really what it's for but whatever.

Phill

KS wasn't meant for a lot of the things it's used for these days.  I can think of one deck project where the decks were already made but the creator released a hundred or so cheap as a thank you to his fans.  I've said before that KS today is in its "wild West" phase, just as eBay was in its first few years.

The owners of KS have said in the New York Times that they're actually hoping to get authorization from the Securities and Exchange Commission to make KS into an investment model whereby microfunders will actually gain an interest in the company - as in microstock instead of or in concert with rewards.  It will be interesting to see what happens if that ever gets approved.  I know a lot of people will lose interest if they can't get their doodads and tchochkes from KS anymore.  But I'm thinking projects will have to undergo tighter scrutiny as well, reducing the number of outright frauds.

I don't know that it will ever happen, though - they're probably making more money with the current business model, which means that at some point as they head toward critical mass, they'll need to police their project creators more effectively than they are now (which is to say, not at all, other than by the use of harsh legal mumbo-jumbo).
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Re: The Most Awesome Poker Set in the World (w/custom cards-KS)
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2013, 02:16:49 PM »
 

SamG

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Hey guys- Sam from ManCrates here.

I've also been posting on UC- I've taken the support/criticisms from both sites as a call to arms. This is our first KS project and our first card set, so we're learning a lot as we go. Our first decks were weak. We've spent the last 72 hours trying to come up with some two way options that hopefully bring the rest of the set up, and at the least don't bring it down like the one-way designs. I'm posting them on the card forums for early critical feedback from anyone that's interested, then we'll get back to cranking out the final, polished designs in the fixed-margin templates.  We'll push the best ones to the KS project and give early backers a chance to vote- I think the new cards will be recognized as an improvement by the casual card buyers.



Chips are going to continue to be a tough balance between sourcing/cost/quality and general audience/hobbyist appeal.  We'd love to add another tier with better chips so people that want to upgrade existing sets can get chips that are as fresh as the rest of the set.
 

Re: The Most Awesome Poker Set in the World (w/custom cards-KS)
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2013, 02:43:31 PM »
 

ronyo_faukx

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 :o  Holy crap!

These are SO much better looking than the designs you currently have up on the KS page. If these designs were up there instead, there would be some real support for the project.
Who wants to play '52 Card Pickup'?
 

Re: The Most Awesome Poker Set in the World (w/custom cards-KS)
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2013, 02:54:28 PM »
 

SamG

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These are SO much better looking than the designs you currently have up on the KS page.

After a crazy weekend of scrambling that is really encouraging to hear, thanks!  :D  We don't want to overwhelm the kickstarter crowd with too many choices, so I'm hoping to pare it down to 2 or 3 options based on feedback from the forums.  Would you prefer two color variations on the same design, or  two different designs? Which ones do you like best with the ammo can theme?
 

Re: The Most Awesome Poker Set in the World (w/custom cards-KS)
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2013, 05:35:15 PM »
 

Card Player

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These are SO much better looking than the designs you currently have up on the KS page.

After a crazy weekend of scrambling that is really encouraging to hear, thanks!  :D  We don't want to overwhelm the kickstarter crowd with too many choices, so I'm hoping to pare it down to 2 or 3 options based on feedback from the forums.  Would you prefer two color variations on the same design, or  two different designs? Which ones do you like best with the ammo can theme?

Hey Sam

I like the adjustments your making. Being a poker player, I would pick one design you guys like the best and print 2 contrasting colors for the same design. Also I suggest a simpler two way design. Less is more in this case. You guys created a very nice logo and that should be the focal point of the design.

Might I also suggest a custom dealer button for completeness of the project.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 05:36:07 PM by Anonymous »
 

Re: The Most Awesome Poker Set in the World (w/custom cards-KS)
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2013, 09:40:13 PM »
 

Curt


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Out of those designs, I think my top 2 would be the GeneraIssimo and Legacy. Generalssimo looks like the most "balanced" back design to me but I do like the colors in the Legacy.
 

Re: The Most Awesome Poker Set in the World (w/custom cards-KS)
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2013, 10:19:58 PM »
 

Fred

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Legacy is the only one i dislike. All of the others are quite appealing in my opinion. I especially like the Generalssimo and Illuminati. Those two would go nicely as a set of black and white.

PS: You kind of screwed a lot of people by shipping only within US. =(
« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 10:20:44 PM by Fred »
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Re: The Most Awesome Poker Set in the World (w/custom cards-KS)
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2013, 11:43:39 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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These are SO much better looking than the designs you currently have up on the KS page.

After a crazy weekend of scrambling that is really encouraging to hear, thanks!  :D  We don't want to overwhelm the kickstarter crowd with too many choices, so I'm hoping to pare it down to 2 or 3 options based on feedback from the forums.  Would you prefer two color variations on the same design, or  two different designs? Which ones do you like best with the ammo can theme?

First, welcome to the forums, Sam.  Glad to have you on board.

You mentioned concerns about the quality of the chips.  FORGET those concerns.  The chips are a fine "home poker kit" grade - they're just not the "casino grade" you were advertising - just be honest about that and you're good to go.  Rather than going crazy looking for a new set of better chips to offer as an upgrade, offer a cheaper tier with NO chips, for those players wishing to source their own.  The thing I would do, however, is look into the cost of upgrading those chips to have a custom logo on them, something matching to the set.  Choosing chip colors to go with the decks and the box is also worth considering.

The new deck backs look excellent - but I would veto the Generalissimo.  From an accuracy standpoint, you're displaying a five-star rank (which no longer exists) with a modified staff sergeant's rank.  Not too big of a deal unless you're a stickler for military rank.  The bigger concern is how the inclusion of the pips in each set of sergeant's stripes makes the back into a one-way design - a serious no-no for cards meant for use at a poker table.  The needs for a poker deck are very specific, and two-way backs is chief among them.

The back I like the most is the Honor Guard.  It's simple, it's classic, it doesn't have a seemingly-generic pattern in the background, and it has a thin, white border.  If you want a background design, create something unique rather than use something that looks like it was taken from clip art.  Conversely, if you still want a simple pattern, go VERY simple - geometric rather than clip art (stars and/or stripes would be good for a deck like this, very small and subtle).  And did I neglect to mention that Honor Guard shares certain design elements in common with two popular poker card backs, the Bicycle Rider Back and the Tally Ho Original Circle Back?

A black border isn't good for a poker set - poker players are very hard on their cards, so the black will begin to chip at the edges and the cards will look like crap in a single night.  (That happens with any color besides white, since USPC always starts with white paper - the darker the color, the more noticeable the effect becomes.)  The best choices are either a white border, or a simple, repetitive pattern that's printed into the bleed - most classic playing card designs have one of these features.  The patterned back (a la the Bee DIamond Back) is a popular design - but also bear in mind that some poker players will shy away from them - the back can create an illusory pattern when the cards are handled and spread, making it difficult to tell where one card ends and the next begins, thus allowing a card cheat to better conceal some of his sleight-of-hand work.

Yes, you would want two of the same back in differing colors - red and blue are traditional, though you could use green, black or brown to swap for one or both of those colors easily enough.  Keep the colors a little dark and easily distinguished from each other - I still remember when USPC released a special Kem set for the World Poker Tour that had two differently-colored decks: light black and dark gray!  Needless to say, it was not a popular set among players.

I wouldn't go too crazy with the customization level, assuming you're targeting poker players.  Even the casual poker player at a neighborhood game likes his cards to be simple and easy to read in a hurry - a custom design mentally slows that process down just a little.  Furthermore, any custom design for a set meant for poker would have to have some of the traditional court elements that are popular in neighborhood games, like "the man with the ax" on the King of Diamonds, the "suicide king" on the King of Hearts, the "Bedpost Queen" on the Queen of Spades, and all the assorted weapons, flowers, crowns, profile faces, etc. - you'd want them all to match the Anglo-American standard.  A strong custom Ace of Spades and pair of Jokers is enough.

A nice additional touch, though, would be a recoloring of the cards in the traditional designs.  Casinos often use a much darker shade of red on their cards than the off-the-rack packs from the local pharmacy - it shows up better on video surveillance cameras, especially back in the days when they were mostly black-and-white.  You also have some flexibility in playing with the palette used on the courts, as well - again, make colors that match your poker kit and players will enjoy them.  (AND PLEASE - make the faces IDENTICAL for both decks!)

The one innovation I would even consider is a change to the background color.  White can be a little hard on the eyes over time - it's why legal pads come in yellow more often than not.  Consider a pale shade of yellow, taupe, gray - something leaning toward neutral - that would be just enough to take the edge off the glare without being a full-blown color change.  A light shade will conceal edge chipping better than a darker one. so there's that, as well.

That should give you enough to chew on for now.  If I can think of anything else, I'll let you know!  :))
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Re: The Most Awesome Poker Set in the World (w/custom cards-KS)
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2013, 12:22:52 AM »
 

sprouts1115

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Wow! What an improvement. I think you guys are going to succeed. You guys have been drinking a lot of coffee or I smell Jackson in the background. I like the Generalissimo design too; It's green and goes with the theme with the green ammo boxes. I also like big old corner badges. Midnight and Legacy don't really have them so I can see why people are not drawn to them. I don't think you have to worry about people wanting a "1-way" back. Drop it. I think you need make an update to your kickstarted asap and let the people know what is going on. It looks like your getting 2,500 decks done from the USPCC. Your probably only going to sell 250 of your crates. Each crate gets 2 decks so that leaves about 2000 decks. It looks like your stuck with 2 box design with your rewards (green and black). The next thing you should concentrate on is your two box design, the jokers and the gaff cards and post them ASAP. If Jackson is in the background that should not be a problem. I still think if you went with backerlist.com and gave an option of different color chips and how many of each would bring more backers because they can customized it.

I checked out your man crates and liked these:

http://www.mancrates.com/crates/zombie-annihilation...
http://www.mancrates.com/crates/high-roller...

Hey, I invented a Man Stand. I use it everyday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEX434MKxzk...
 

Re: The Most Awesome Poker Set in the World (w/custom cards-KS)
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2013, 12:50:33 AM »
 

SamG

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First- just want to say how glad I am now that I posted on your forum. These things can go either way- you all have been phenomenally constructive and helpful, so thank you all for providing feedback we can use to improve our project. A few responses to your individual points below, sorry for all the quotes:

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Might I also suggest a custom dealer button for completeness of the project.
Great suggestion- we're holding off until we lock up the must-haves for the Christmas deadline. We've got some options we're looking at for dealer buttons / card protectors but didn't want to promise them too soon.

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PS: You kind of screwed a lot of people by shipping only within US. =(
We can probably offer cards to international backers very soon, but the weight of the full poker case makes every shipping quote we've gotten ridiculous (as some people speculated.) I don't know how other weighty KS projects have managed to offer flat-rate shipping internationally- we're talking w everyone we can trying to figure this out. We could definitely use the lift from international backers.

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Re: Don Boyer on chips, insignia, borders, colors
Really, really helpful post.  The Generalissimo has a lot of fans- we can correct the problems with the pips to make it a true two-way design in the next revision. We meant to use the insignias thematically and not literally- we'll reach out to a few of our veteran friends for some more opinions. For appropriate width white margins- I hear you. Our next step is to get the top 2 designs cleaned up and production ready ASAP.

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I smell Jackson in the background
We collaborated with Jackson to put together our High Roller crate and he's been extremely kind to give us a few pointers re: Kickstarter. I don't want it to appear that he's more involved than he has been on this project- he's an artist far beyond our skills & we don't want to trade on his good name. We did consume a ton of energy drinks & beers, listen to hours Dragonforce radio, and worked through the full NFL ticket on Sunday to get the improved concepts to where they are. We're hoping to push them to KS tomorrow and keep our momentum going.

Also, just to make sure it was clear- these are custom backed decks.  We'll use an appropriately colored, traditional face set for the decks. I hope that was clear to the project backers.

PS: Man Stand is terrific. I would call it nothing short of a triumph of practical everyday engineering. :)