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Bicycle Haunted Playing Cards (KS)

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Bicycle Haunted Playing Cards (KS)
« on: July 08, 2013, 11:04:21 PM »
 

Rob Wright

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CollectablePlayingCards.com /Mike Guistolise, Art by Ana Albares

First Project, $5,000 goal
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Re: Bicycle Haunted Playing Cards (KS)
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2013, 12:09:45 AM »
 

Bill Collins

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I like the idea, but I'm on the fence about this one. With only $5,000 goal, someone must have some deep pockets.
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Re: Bicycle Haunted Playing Cards (KS)
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2013, 06:52:02 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I like the idea, but I'm on the fence about this one. With only $5,000 goal, someone must have some deep pockets.

I wouldn't waste my money.  This project creator is out to make a deck that's "collectable" (that's the British spelling, even though he appears to be American) from the start.  Calling his company "Collectable Playing Cards" is kind of a giveaway.

But the thing it, that itself wouldn't be enough to turn me off.  What is enough is how lazy the design work is.  His "3 custom courts" will end up repeated for all four suits probably because he couldn't pay an artist to do all of them custom.  The "5 of hearts" reveal card has the pips on the card screwed up - one is practically falling off the edge of the card!  His "custom pips" aren't very attractive - if I asked a classroom of five-year-olds to draw pips for me, there's a good chance at least some of them will look like the ones on this deck.  I guess "haunted" translates to "sloppy" where he's from.  The "dirty parchment" background is getting tired by now - does anyone have a more original idea?  This isn't even an "old" deck, unless "haunted" also means "old".  (Pretty versatile word, that "haunted"...)  And his "custom seal" - I am no designer, and I could have made that using a simple paint program, or even MS Word!  "Limited Edition 1st Run" - that's a little disingenuous considering it's probably the only run that will see the light of day.  I produce Limited Edition 1st Run "products" each time I visit the bathroom - it doesn't make them "collectable".

The one thing I'd like to give him credit for is that the back, while appearing two-way, is actually one-way.  But I can't, since I don't think he did that intentionally.  If he did, he'd be promoting it as another feature of his deck.

It's a lazy, unimaginative, derivative design not worth the price he's asking.

As far as the goal for his project - it's one of two things.  Either he's a fool and didn't work out the exact costs, or he's supporting the project with his own funds.  In his video he's wearing a t-shirt for a magic shop - odds are that's his business and he'll use it to sell any left-over decks.  Even so, I'm a little wary, since this is his first KS project and he backed none, as he doesn't appear to have been around long enough to have do so.  It's JAIMOTMC - Just Another Idiot Out To Make Cash.  Those whopper six-figure projects were a blessing and a curse to the community, since they're attracting new "designers" like flies in a honey factory.

My kingdom for more designers who put art and design as higher priorities over making a buck.  You make something well and promote the hell out of it, the dollars will come.  I guarantee you none of the designers in the "$50,000-plus club" went into their projects knowing that they'd be huge successes, especially not the record breakers.

Side note: I think his project's going to hit a hard brick wall.  He's offering quantities of decks as large as a gross in the rewards - that hasn't been allowed for a long time.  (In case you're new to this, deck projects can offer not more than a single brick [one dozen] of the object the project was created to make - all other projects are limited to not more than ten such objects.  Unless, of course, KS repealed that rule.)
« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 06:56:43 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Bicycle Haunted Playing Cards (KS)
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2013, 07:42:58 AM »
 

Alex Willis

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I love the wooden playing card box with haunted crow on it, as for the deck... I can see what he was trying for, but I am put off by there only being 3 custom court cards.  Why not 12?  "In for a penny, in for a pound" my Grandma used to say.  I don't necessarily shy away from low goals unless it's obvious the person offering is an idiot, for some who do have deep pockets, KS is a way to get a larger audience and a little seed money helps.  My belief is that the "company" and the supporters should commit to half the cost of development.  It's great if you get can your supporters to do better than half, then again I've supported my own projects for years out of pocket so I'm accustomed to no help.  Perhaps my philosophy is outdated... But as for this deck, I will not be supporting it.  (Also, the soundtrack of horrifying noises on the video was a huge turn off).
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Re: Bicycle Haunted Playing Cards (KS)
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2013, 08:07:16 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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(Also, the soundtrack of horrifying noises on the video was a huge turn off).

The icing on the cheese, would you say?  :))

I get where you're coming from regarding self-funding.  But some of the ideas that get put forth wouldn't be easy to obtain such funds for.  Furthermore, many projects are being put forth by college kids with big ideas and even bigger student loan payments.

I am, however, of the firm belief that you should NOT be hitting the well over and over for new funding on every single project.  I feel that KS and similar sites meant to launch a venture, create a new company, get that company on its feet, etc. instead of being a crutch and a venue for selling your wares.  I still remember seeing a deck project that was successful on KS get "relaunched" on another funding site because they simply had leftover decks they wanted to sell!  To me, that's what retail is for.

Having said all of that, however, while the ideals are high, the reality is that the economy sucks and group funding sites do generate an audience that you wouldn't otherwise have.  But at what point does a company stand on its own two legs, independent and successful?  Judging from some of the things in KS's own rules, I'd say they never intended KS to become a crowdfunded version of Etsy...
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Re: Bicycle Haunted Playing Cards (KS)
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2013, 09:53:07 AM »
 

Alex Willis

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I feel that KS and similar sites meant to launch a venture, create a new company, get that company on its feet, etc. instead of being a crutch and a venue for selling your wares.

It takes any start up company a year or two with regular sales to "get on your feet".  So either KS should cut you off after so many projects or after a specific period of time.  The problem is that they won't.  Their business model continues to drive sales into the millions of which they and amazon are gleaning 10% for providing a host site, some minor monitoring and collecting money.  They won't take a group like Albino Dragon who has proven to drive huge funding for projects and tell them, "hey, you're done.  Go fund future decks yourself."  That's like saying, "We don't want the $50,000 dollars we took off your last project."

The thing is, that popular businesses have a solid following and could cut out the middle man saving the 10% for themselves by hosting their own crowdfunding on their own websites for future projects.  When you have a mailing list (fan list) of over 10,000 people, you should be able to accomplish it quite easily. 
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Re: Bicycle Haunted Playing Cards (KS)
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2013, 11:31:33 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I feel that KS and similar sites meant to launch a venture, create a new company, get that company on its feet, etc. instead of being a crutch and a venue for selling your wares.

It takes any start up company a year or two with regular sales to "get on your feet".  So either KS should cut you off after so many projects or after a specific period of time.  The problem is that they won't.  Their business model continues to drive sales into the millions of which they and amazon are gleaning 10% for providing a host site, some minor monitoring and collecting money.  They won't take a group like Albino Dragon who has proven to drive huge funding for projects and tell them, "hey, you're done.  Go fund future decks yourself."  That's like saying, "We don't want the $50,000 dollars we took off your last project."

The thing is, that popular businesses have a solid following and could cut out the middle man saving the 10% for themselves by hosting their own crowdfunding on their own websites for future projects.  When you have a mailing list (fan list) of over 10,000 people, you should be able to accomplish it quite easily.

Seriously, who wouldn't want to pocket that ten percent!?  :))

So, what do you think of THIS project?
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Re: Bicycle Haunted Playing Cards (KS)
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2013, 11:34:39 AM »
 

Lotrek

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Poorly designed deck and even more poorly edited video.
 

Re: Bicycle Haunted Playing Cards (KS)
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2013, 11:56:21 AM »
 

Alex Willis

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The designer does deserve a fair and honest critique of his cards as well as his presentation to the public:

1.  The video was informative, but bland in the beginning and unforgivable with bad sound effects at the end
2.  The cards have some potential and there is some art there (There is currently a very popular novel that highlights unusual photographs of people at the turn of the last century).  However, 3 court cards repeated simply does not cut it, we want 12.
3.  Stylized pips help the deck stand out, over designed pips are cheesy (however, Posthumo did quite well with probably the worst Pips I've ever seen)
4.  The background image (old parchment or distressed paper) has been done, however if his focus is on the images in the frames, it may not be out of place
5.  Advertising that you have 4 custom designed aces is unforgivable, can we assume that if you didn't custom design them there wouldn't be any aces?  They aren't even interesting (except for the raven/crow, I did like that little bit)
6.  Haunted?  In what sense?  I am haunted by the memory of my ex-wife, I see dead people or I will forever be haunted by this horrible deck (okay, that was harsh, it's not horrible)
7.  Improvements:
    a..  New Video
   b.  More Art
  c.  Seek advice from the forums
 d.  Spell Collectible correctly, your accent is American so I'd expect an American spelling

That's it for this deck.  Again, unless things change on this one I'm out.
Alex Willis
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Re: Bicycle Haunted Playing Cards (KS)
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2013, 11:35:18 PM »
 

Rob Wright

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If you go to his website. It looks like he has 4 different sites where he sells decks by different designers, magic stuff, gag gifts. Also looks like he owns a magic store-"Magic Trick Store, Inc. is one of the largest magic dealers on the web!". If I had to guess, these cards are going to be made regardless of KS. If you look at the pre-orders on his site, you will find another great deck from KS that didn't make funding/cancelled early twice- The "Emotions" deck.
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Re: Bicycle Haunted Playing Cards (KS)
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2013, 08:14:29 AM »
 

Paul.Middleton

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amazon are gleaning 10% for providing a host site, some minor monitoring and collecting money. 

I'm not particular knowledgeable on KS so I won't try to pretend. I will say, though, that 10% is pretty good value for money. Do you know how complex and expensive hosting is for a site like that? How many servers and data centres are needed?

Amazon charge around 3-5% for payment processing alone, which is similar to PayPal and others. Having a secure, trustworthy company like that doing the payment processing is worth the money in my opinion. Though maybe economies of scale would be better, IE 10%, but then 7.5% for larger projects.
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Re: Bicycle Haunted Playing Cards (KS)
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2013, 01:01:28 AM »
 

Rob Wright

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amazon are gleaning 10% for providing a host site, some minor monitoring and collecting money. 

I'm not particular knowledgeable on KS so I won't try to pretend. I will say, though, that 10% is pretty good value for money. Do you know how complex and expensive hosting is for a site like that? How many servers and data centres are needed?

Amazon charge around 3-5% for payment processing alone, which is similar to PayPal and others. Having a secure, trustworthy company like that doing the payment processing is worth the money in my opinion. Though maybe economies of scale would be better, IE 10%, but then 7.5% for larger projects.

KS collects 5% of all projects. JP you are correct about Amazon. They charge a swipe fee of .30 or .50c I think, + 3-5 % depending on the charge amount.

For a 1-2 man operation, 10% to pay a middle man to take orders, and process payments is a dream. By the time a company is big enough to do away with a middle man. It's going to cost a whole lot more than 10% by the time you pay employees, computer, IT, web service, office/warehouse space, and credit card fees. Amazon also gives an online business a little more credibility. People are more willing to give credit card info to Amazon than they are Joe's Card Shack.

I think part of the frustration with KS/Amazon is because shipping is not separated from the pledge/order. The project creator has to spend an extra 10% for that as well,  which ultimately gets passed on to the backers.
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Re: Bicycle Haunted Playing Cards (KS)
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2013, 10:49:23 PM »
 

vmagic

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This is from Collectableplayingcards.com, which is in fact from the UK, and is associated with their other site magictrickstore.com. I will agree that this deck needs some work and only 3 court cards is lazy.
 

Re: Bicycle Haunted Playing Cards (KS)
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2013, 01:02:56 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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This is from Collectableplayingcards.com, which is in fact from the UK, and is associated with their other site magictrickstore.com. I will agree that this deck needs some work and only 3 court cards is lazy.

If Collectableplayingcards.com is based in the UK, I have to ask in what parts of the UK one would find the towns of Lake in the Hills, Illinois and Huntley, Illinois?  Is Illinois a county in the North somewhere, perhaps Scotland?  Or maybe it's Welsh?  Furthermore, how did they get a US toll-free number and why do they accept payment only in US dollars rather than the national currency of the pound sterling?  And why is their associated site, magictrickstore.com, also in the town of Huntley in the as-yet-to-be-found UK "county" of Illinois?

tl;dr - your info is more fiction than fact.
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Re: Bicycle Haunted Playing Cards (KS)
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2013, 11:13:28 AM »
 

ronyo_faukx

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If you look at the pre-orders on his site, you will find another great deck from KS that didn't make funding/cancelled early twice- The "Emotions" deck.

Yeah, those were sold to the site outright in light of the unlikely situation of the project funding. If you look at the comments, a number of people were not happy as the price they would have paid as a part of the pledge was much less than CPC is charging. If I remember correctly, there's a comment from someone saying something to the tune of 'What's it matter? You can still buy the cards, which is what you wanted.'
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Re: Bicycle Haunted Playing Cards (KS)
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2013, 11:15:56 AM »
 

ronyo_faukx

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As a matter of fact, my decks turned up this morning.

I can post images, but as for handling, etc. I'm still quite novice, so wouldn't be able to give as much feedback in that regard.
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Re: Bicycle Haunted Playing Cards (KS)
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2013, 11:22:35 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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As a matter of fact, my decks turned up this morning.

I can post images, but as for handling, etc. I'm still quite novice, so wouldn't be able to give as much feedback in that regard.

These days, most custom decks from USPC feel the same because of Magic Finish - the great equalizer.  Only difference would be thickness/stiffness of the stock.
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Re: Bicycle Haunted Playing Cards (KS)
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2013, 03:06:05 PM »
 

Anthony

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This is from Collectableplayingcards.com, which is in fact from the UK, and is associated with their other site magictrickstore.com. I will agree that this deck needs some work and only 3 court cards is lazy.

If Collectableplayingcards.com is based in the UK, I have to ask in what parts of the UK one would find the towns of Lake in the Hills, Illinois and Huntley, Illinois?  Is Illinois a county in the North somewhere, perhaps Scotland?  Or maybe it's Welsh?  Furthermore, how did they get a US toll-free number and why do they accept payment only in US dollars rather than the national currency of the pound sterling?  And why is their associated site, magictrickstore.com, also in the town of Huntley in the as-yet-to-be-found UK "county" of Illinois?

tl;dr - your info is more fiction than fact.

Wait a minute....I live in Huntley and Lake in the Hills is the next town over.Maybe I can save on shipping by going to the warehouse, lol