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Steampunk Heroes deck - now in legal limbo

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Steampunk Heroes deck - now in legal limbo
« on: July 06, 2012, 04:36:31 PM »
 

CBJ

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I received this today in my FB inbox

"http://www.flickr.com/photos/32482342@N05/7515811126/
Steampunk Heroes Playing Cards coming to KICKSTARTER next week!"



From the site

"Steampunk Heroes© Custom Playing Card Deck coming to KICKSTARTER next week!

Steampunk Heroes ©

Inspired by a love of Steampunk and LEGO® bricks, The Steampunk Heroes © playing card deck has been crafted by the designers at V&A Steamworks. These amazing cards feature all of the traditions of a playing card deck combined with the innovative beauty of Victorian Age characters pulled right from the pages of history. A Steampunk themed Queen Victoria invites you to enjoy the company of Thomas Edison, Nicola Tesla, Florence Nightingale, Lord Chelmsford, Nellie Bly, Madame Curie, Mark Twain, FOUR Jack the Rippers and a Nunchuck wielding Abraham Lincoln!

This unique deck gives you two, count 'em, TWO King of Clubs! You have the option of supporting the Father of DC power, Thomas Edison - or choosing the genius of AC power, Nicola Tesla, as your King.

Your One Eyed Jacks all feature eye-patches.

The Bedpost Queen features an appropriate Steampunk themed spanner wrench.

The Suicide King has put his rapier through his head ( darn Zulus... )

The traditional BICYCLE Joker has been replaced with a top hatted Penny Farthing rider.

EVERY card in the deck is customized with a Steampunk themed design ( not just the Court Cards ).

The Victorian inspired Card Back features a tribute to Georges Melies' classic film Voyage to the Moon. It has been crafted from a custom 24" x 24" LEGO® model and professionally photographed to supply the custom card back imagery.
Be you are Deck Collector, a LEGO enthusiast, a Magician or a Steampunk fan this special deck belongs in your collection!

Printed by USPCC/Bicycle®
There was never a choice. The only way that this deck will get printed is by the best in the business, United States Playing Card Company. An official BICYCLE deck, Steampunk Heroes © will feature premium card stock and the World Famous USPCC Air Flow Finish."

__________________________________________________________________________

I really can't see this being approved by USPCC unless approval is given by Lego Group in Denmark.

If it does move forward, it would appeal to Bicycle collectors, and Lego collectors

CBJ
« Last Edit: July 28, 2012, 02:24:33 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2012, 04:55:15 PM »
 

Paul Carpenter

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Just slapping a ® after the word doesn't necessarily mean everyone is all cool in the hood.

Granted I'm not the most experienced card designer out there, but I'm almost 100% sure USPCC will say "no way jose" when they see that. Without a lot of lawyers having nice discussions, there is no way I can see this happening. Sure hope they figure all that out before people start pledging.
Paul Carpenter
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Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2012, 05:33:21 PM »
 

xela

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Right... well I am not sure what Lego's policies are. I know they allow people to profit from stop-motion videos that use Lego characters, but I don't think they will bite for this.

The creator should just contact Lego and ask. They will probably not let him or her continue, but they may also want to do an officially branded Lego deck.

I don't think the issue here would be copyright infringement. I'm no lawyer but the problem seems to be that Lego is being represented in a way they may not want to be represented in, and the fact that with this product lying around, it may confused future customers if Lego ever decides to push out their own line of cards.

Lastly, I don't see any credit to Lego either.

I am genuinely curious how this is going to go down. Seeing as how they are launching the KS, my guess is USPC has already approved the project but hasn't ran it by their legal department (this happens too often...).

Time to get out the popcorn and see what happens. *munch*
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Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2012, 05:38:12 PM »
 

Evan

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Well it's definitely not my style at all but I may pick up a couple to review and just to have in my collection.
 

Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2012, 09:02:56 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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There's no way that USPC would make this deck if they didn't obtain the necessary approvals from Lego.  You have to own the rights to your images, and making something like this would require Lego to sign off on it.  And it wouldn't be a Kickstarter project - they'd just MAKE it.


While it is possible (though improbable) this deck will get made, it's unlikely that it will occur through a KS project.
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Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2012, 09:37:16 PM »
 

CBJ

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Well, this deck is moving forward!

The designer messaged me

""Wasn't easy, but I have my full releases from Enfield.
: )"

"I know some folks who know some folks.
Plus I have been a well know member of the Adult building community for a number of years, so I am n0 stranger to the nice folks at my favorite toy company. It took a while, but all my permissions are finally in place to move forward. Should be live on Kickstarter next week."

I'm extremely curious now to what the tuck box will look like

CBJ
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Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2012, 10:23:16 PM »
 

Evan

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I'm glad to see that these will be moving forward!
 

Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2012, 11:44:46 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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I'm extremely curious now to what the tuck box will look like

CBJ

My guess would be interlocking blocks in many collectible colors!  :))  Just imagine, big ol' tuck boxes that actually clipped together like Lego blocks!

Now I'm more interested in seeing where this goes.  While the Steampunk theme has been getting heavily used lately, this deck's application of Lego images sets it apart.

Maybe Lego will even make Steampunk Heroes kits!
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Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2012, 12:58:07 AM »
 

CBJ

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It would be very cool if you got a mini-fig with a deck (or a brick)

CBJ
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Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2012, 11:24:35 AM »
 

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Hello AetherCards!

It's my pleasure to meet you all.

My name is Guy Himber and I am the creator/designer of the Steampunk Heroes Custom Playing Card Deck coming to Kickstarter next week.

I hope I can answer any questions you may have and I always love to hear any feedback you can share regarding my upcoming deck.

Some quick info:

I spent a LONG time putting this deck together. I own upwards of 80 decks myself and have done extensive research to make the cards as traditional ( within their wild design ) as possible. Yes, I am a HUGE fan of both LEGO Brick and Steampunk. And playing cards for that matter. I think my favorite decks in my collection to date are the Americana, Monarchs and now, most recently, the Deck of the Living Dead.

A few folks have asked how did I get releases from LEGO Co. to create the deck. Easy answer .... I asked them
: )

Please feel free to ask me any questions, I will be happy to answer them!

Best,

GH
« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 11:25:10 AM by Himber »
 

Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2012, 01:05:53 PM »
 

RandyButterfield

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Hi Guy,

Welcome to the Discourse! I think the cards look great. The extra design elements fit with the Lego characters very well. I'm curious if the Lego Characters on the Court Cards are Photographs of real toys or Renders of 3d Models? Either way they're very impressive. Great lighting and cleanup if they're photos and very clean models and renders if they're 3d!

It's very cool that you were able to get permission from Lego. It almost inspires me to try to go back to my original deck idea (a Big Lebowski / Retro Bowling Deck) and try to get copyright permission!

I'll definitely be pledging for some of your decks.

thanks, Randy

 

Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2012, 02:24:56 PM »
 

Himber

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I think there already is ( though not a very good ) Big Lebowski deck?  Made by AQUARIUS cards in Canada

The Steampunk Heroes are created from Photographs of custom minifigs I originally created for a magazine article.  They feature many many custom parts from secondary market makers and vendors.  I spent many hours refining and adjusting the images until they felt right.   Like all things that look effortless plenty of time was spent behind the scenes.

Here's a preview of the JOKER



« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 02:25:47 PM by Himber »
 

Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2012, 11:33:46 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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It looks great.  I'm surprised that the people at Lego didn't want to just fund and make the deck themselves.  Or did they?  :))
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Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2012, 11:54:19 PM »
 

Evan

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Very nice looking Joker! Some parts look like they are 3D. Are you using 3d software to design it?
 

Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2012, 06:32:24 PM »
 

Himber

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Everything starts with a photo and then Photoshop manipulation creates the look.

: )
 

Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2012, 10:23:07 PM »
 

loldudex2

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Wow Himber, this deck looks fantastic! I really love how they look professional, yet playful. Do you know when this Kickstarter will go up?

It would be very cool if you got a mini-fig with a deck (or a brick)

CBJ


I was thinking the same exact think. It would be cool if there was a pledge where you could get mini-fig's based off of one (or even all) of the court cards!
I LIKE MAILBOXES!
 

Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2012, 06:58:48 PM »
 

Himber

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STEAMPUNK HEROES Playing Cards have gone LIVE on KICKSTARTER!

Share with all your friends!  Tell the world!

<a href="http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/406037970/steampunk-heroes-lego-inspired-bicycle-playing-car" rel="nofollow">www.kickstarter.com/projects/406037970/steampunk-heroes-l...</a>

I appreciate your support for this passion fueled project.

Best,

Guy
( aka V&A Steamworks )
 

Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2012, 07:30:22 PM »
 

Evan

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The deck looks really great! It's unlike any deck that I own which is part of the reason I like it so much!
One thing I noticed is that on the kickstarter page, it says that these will have Air Flow Finish. Is that the same Air Flow Finish that was used on the old Ellusionist decks? If so, I cant wait to see how these will handle!
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2012, 12:26:29 AM »
 

Himber

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Here's a great article from the Ellusionist folks about USPCC finishes

http://blog.ellusionist.com/everything-you-wanted-to-know-about-uspc-ellusionist-but-were-afraid-to-ask/
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2012, 12:47:50 AM »
 

Evan

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Ok, so this is really Air Flow Finish?
 

Re: Coming to Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2012, 01:25:28 AM »
 

Himber

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Wow Himber, this deck looks fantastic! I really love how they look professional, yet playful. Do you know when this Kickstarter will go up?

It would be very cool if you got a mini-fig with a deck (or a brick)

CBJ


I was thinking the same exact think. It would be cool if there was a pledge where you could get mini-fig's based off of one (or even all) of the court cards!

That's an option!
Take a look at the pledge rewards
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 01:26:16 AM by Himber »
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2012, 01:29:41 AM »
 

Himber

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Ok, so this is really Air Flow Finish?

It is the current USPCC "Air Flow Finish"

The next upgrade would be to go to the BEE CASINO grade stock ( which is what Ellusionist like to use )

If the pledges go high enough , this is an option I might explore.

Read the Ellusionist article and it best details the meanings and process for the different finish names with USPCC cards.  Much of the information that is out there is misquoted or misunderstood.

The Ellusionist folks know there stuff best.
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2012, 03:32:17 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Ok, so this is really Air Flow Finish?

It is the current USPCC "Air Flow Finish"

The next upgrade would be to go to the BEE CASINO grade stock ( which is what Ellusionist like to use )

If the pledges go high enough , this is an option I might explore.

Read the Ellusionist article and it best details the meanings and process for the different finish names with USPCC cards.  Much of the information that is out there is misquoted or misunderstood.

The Ellusionist folks know there stuff best.

The article you quoted is pretty well out of date.  The person who wrote it no longer works at Ellusionist.  I've spoken with him on the phone; he's a nice guy.

I've written a few posts about this topic, culled from research as well as discussing it with the actual people who make decks - some of whom have indeed been on the factory floor.

As of right now, there are exactly two finishes being produced for USPC decks: "standard" and "Magic Finish".  "Standard" is called different things on different cards: Ivory, Air Cushion, Cambric, Linoid, etc.  "Magic Finish" is commonly called Magic Finish, but there are variances from this: Ellusionist called it by its original code name before it went into wide production, which is Performance Finish.  The New York Magic Project used it on their white Arrco decks and called it "Premium Finish".  In some cases, like the early "transition" decks from the time when Ellusionist was converting all their decks to Performance Coating, many still bore the "Air Cushion" name, and some were never made in Air Cushion, having gone straight from Air-Flow to Performance Coating.  (Specifically, there were many decks that existed in large quantities of the original Air-Flow Finish that didn't completely sell out until after the transition, thus they never appeared as Air-Cushion - one example that comes to mind are the red and blue Bicycle Masters.)  Another instance of Magic Finish going by another name was the CARC release of black-and-silver Acorn Back Erdnase Bee decks.  Because they like their decks to appear like old-time decks, they kept the traditional old-time names for the finish - Ivory on smooth decks, Cambric on textured decks - but because of the silver ink in that deck, the actual finish used was Magic Finish.  Magic Finish was practically made for decks with metallic inks or high ink saturation to allow them smoother performance characteristics.

There is a third, experimental finish.  So far, the only deck made with it was the Vortex deck, and only limited quantities of that whole print run had it, maybe 10%.  But it's still an experimental finish, not being made widely available without further testing.

As far as that old stuff about web press versus sheet-fed press, it's ridiculous.  The web press is used for printing decks in large quantities, period.  Anything they mass produce in the tens of thousands will go on the web press.  It used to be the preferred press at the old Cincinnati plant, but this had a lot to do with the fact that the sheet-fed press there was a dinosaur being held together with spit, chewing gum and prayers.  But it was also the press used for any short-run deck, so many custom decks did get the sheet-fed process.  Ellusionist usually orders LARGE quantities of their decks, so they get the web press.  In the newer Erlanger plant, the sheet-fed press is fantastic, and some might even argue that it's better than the web press!  It's produced such complex and difficult-to-make decks as the Tendril and the Seasons decks.  I have that knowledge from a prominent magician and friend who's been at the plant in both locations on more than one occasion - his decks are produced by a USPC subsidiary company overseas.

The USPC is known for having a fairly fluid set of rules for how things get done and what can and can't be done.  There was a period of time where any deck released under the Bicycle name had to be called "Air Cushion" finish, regardless of what the actual finish was.  But that time has passed - the Bicycle decks made by Ellusionist today say "Performance Coating" and not "Air Cushion Finish" on them.  Anything without the Bicycle brand could be named whatever the hell the designer wanted, as long as he was paying for it.

And as far as textured finishes versus smooth ones - at one time in history, just as there used to be different finishes on different brands, there used to be cotton rollers that "applied" the textured coating to textured decks.  Those rollers have long been replaced with smooth, steel models, and any texture or lack thereof on a deck's surface isn't done in the finish - it's done on the paper at the time it's being pressed together into the "graphite and glue sandwich" that modern playing cards are made with.  Two rolls of paper enter, glue is applied to make them adhere to each other and the glue itself is infused with graphite to keep cards from being translucent and thus easily read through the back if there was a strong enough light source in the right place.  As this sandwich is being flattened, that's when the textured surface is (or isn't) added.

Oh, you mentioned "Air Flow Finish" and Bee Casino stock as an "upgrade".  The two are completely UNRELATED to each other.  The first is a finish, the second is a stock (paper) that the finish eventually gets applied to.  One is not an upgrade of the other, just like apples aren't an upgrade from steak.  At present, they have four stocks: Bicycle, Aristocrat, Bee and Bee Casino, listed in approximate order of thickness and grade.  Don't even get me started about variances in the stock...

I'm not trying to belittle you, because quite frankly, as much as we all love USPC products, they can be more than a little opaque to their clients, particularly in the Customs division.  And the consumers?  Well, they're totally in the dark, unless they do the searching people like some of us here have done.  But if you're going to be in the business of making playing cards, it's best to know what you're getting into and how things get done at the print shop.
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Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2012, 10:05:58 AM »
 

CBJ

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Man, this deck is humming along

As of this minute, it's at 63% of the goal.

$5,386 of $8,500 ( 112 backers )

all this.. in 1 day!

Amazing!

CBJ
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Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2012, 10:16:44 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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We're looking at a project that's going to go deep into overfunding territory, for certain.  I look forward to seeing it happen!
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
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Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2012, 05:09:34 PM »
 

Paul Carpenter

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So with that goal amount, it's obviously a 2500 run. Since some of the tiers have no limits, I would assume that if they go way past it will get bumped up to 5000. A fun deck, it will definitely do very well. It does seem to be a trend of late to pick some well known franchise and design a deck around it.
Paul Carpenter
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Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2012, 05:56:38 PM »
 

Himber

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We're looking at a project that's going to go deep into overfunding territory, for certain.  I look forward to seeing it happen!

DON!!

You are totally ROCKING this topic for me ( and I like it ).

OK, so in as much as you guys are way more tuned in to the materials and the long and dark history of said materials, what are your preferences?

Granted, many of the folks getting this particular deck won't care about one finish to the other ( or card stock for that matter ) they are just regular card folk who have a love for LEGO and Steampunk themes,  I would certainly like to create the highest quality deck that I can since it's going to be a one time run.

What's your preferences when all is said and done?

I really like the feel of the Americana and Tendril decks ( they seem to have a feeling of Endurance about them ). 
I also understand that CASINO GRADE paper stock is supposed to be more durable??

I am looking for some quality information that I can apply to the deck

many thanks!

Guy

 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2012, 05:58:53 PM »
 

Himber

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So with that goal amount, it's obviously a 2500 run. Since some of the tiers have no limits, I would assume that if they go way past it will get bumped up to 5000. A fun deck, it will definitely do very well. It does seem to be a trend of late to pick some well known franchise and design a deck around it.

Paul,

I LOVE my Tendril deck,  many thanks!

OK, can you let me in on the secret ?  Is there a 'tell' on the card backs?

Best,

Guy
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2012, 06:23:10 PM »
 

MSimonart

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well, as far as I know: I hate the feeling of the Guardians deck, and I love the feeling of the expert at the card table deck. I'll tell you tommorow which card stock and finish they have. I'm to tired and go to sleep right now. But so you already know what I think has a good feeling.

It's been a long time since I posted something here again. I have to say. This deck is real good. I mean 85% in one day does say enough. I'll pledge for 5 decks. That's for sure. Also, my real dream would be to have these mini-figs, but don't have the money for them. For the rest, the court cards are incredible, really love them. I'm not really a fan of the back design, certainly because of the fact it is a one-way back design. The lego-construction is really breathtaking, but I don't feel like is really honoring him, like it is now on that back design. But that's your choice of course. The suit cards are great, nothing really special, but certainly not ugly. They are what I expected of this deck (and be sure, I have high expectations :D)

For the rest, I think you already know how good this deck is. But I'm gonna say it again: This is a very good deck. Great idea, Great design, Great project, Great promotion = A big, awesome, succesfull deck!

Guardians = not!
EATCT = yes

PS: I'm not really a good deck handler expert. I mainly collect cards, I don't really open them. I only handdled like 8 different decks, so that doesn't make me really a good opinion to follow. But I just wanted to have my input in this one though.
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2012, 07:45:29 PM »
 

Aaron

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I prefer aristocrat stock with magic finish
People say nothing's impossible, but I do nothing everyday.

Today I found something that reminded me of you. But don't worry I flushed and everything went back to normal.
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2012, 07:55:03 PM »
 

jmrock

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After swearing off kickstarter, I'm interested... After looking, would have liked to get in on the $40 Uncut and Deck... Would look good framed in the kids playroom... Legos & Cards & All... Extra ten for not being the first on line to back?  I don't know...
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2012, 10:37:55 PM »
 

Evan

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In under 24 hours, this deck is already funded! This may beat the Tendril deck!
Also, I noticed that there aren't any pics of the back design!!! Did I miss the pics or are there really none posted yet?
I would really like to see the back design  ;D
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2012, 10:53:06 PM »
 

anep21

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I hope the handling will be same as tendril. The back design is in the video and it's one way back design
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 11:13:08 PM by anep21 »
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2012, 12:46:27 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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We're looking at a project that's going to go deep into overfunding territory, for certain.  I look forward to seeing it happen!

DON!!

You are totally ROCKING this topic for me ( and I like it ).

OK, so in as much as you guys are way more tuned in to the materials and the long and dark history of said materials, what are your preferences?

Granted, many of the folks getting this particular deck won't care about one finish to the other ( or card stock for that matter ) they are just regular card folk who have a love for LEGO and Steampunk themes,  I would certainly like to create the highest quality deck that I can since it's going to be a one time run.

What's your preferences when all is said and done?

I really like the feel of the Americana and Tendril decks ( they seem to have a feeling of Endurance about them ). 
I also understand that CASINO GRADE paper stock is supposed to be more durable??

I am looking for some quality information that I can apply to the deck

many thanks!

Guy

Those two decks you mentioned both used Aristocrat stock with Magic Finish on them.  If your cards are going to be heavy on the ink and/or use metallic inks, MF is the way to go.

There's two kinds of Aristocrat - though USPC may or may not 'fess up to this - they tend to be a secretive bunch.  A prime example of this would be to grab a pack of the Aristocrat Banknote 727 reprint deck and a pack of Tally Ho with either back design (circle back or fan back).  Both decks are made with Aristocrat stock, but the Aristocrat deck is decidedly softer.  As a playing card, I love it; as a magician, I love it; card flourishers don't go them as much - a little too soft for their tastes.  The Tally Ho deck has better overall performance and feels a bit more firm when riffled than an Aristocrat Banknote deck does.  This difference is actually done at the factory - when the paper has been cut into sheets, they're stored at set temperatures and humidity levels.  Altering these factors while the sheets are in storage will alter the characteristics of the cards made from that stock.  Other factors that can have an effect are a little less in USPC's control - variable stock quality, percentage of recycled content, how much ink the paper absorbs during printing...

Tally Ho is arguably one of the most beloved decks of card flourishers, and many magicians and poker players swear by them - I love them myself and count them among my favorites.  It's a shame they're so hard to find for most people, though - aside from online specialty shops, the only place Tally Ho is sold in stores would be magic shops or in New York City.  USPC considers it a "regional" brand, with a very small region!  (They have other regional brands - Mavericks are nonexistent in New York, but sold throughout the Southern states, and Aladdins are printed for sale primarily in Singapore, where they're as common as Bicycles are here.)  It was first printed by A. Dougherty of New York City, later Consolidated Dougherty when they merged with the New York Consolidated Card Company, and eventually by USPC when they bought the company decades ago - but for much of the deck's history, it was actually manufactured in New York City as well.

To make life simple on yourself, if you want the firmer Aristocrat stock, just tell them, "Hey, you know those Tally Ho decks you make?  I want THAT paper!"

Bee decks are more firm, and Bee Casino are firmer still.  Some people really like a stiffer card, and the Bee decks do take a little while to break in.  But it does create a more durable card in the end to use those stocks - however, it will also increase your production time and costs.  The Bee stocks are more expensive and take a specially-made tuck box that they (for now) have been farming out to a third party.  It could delay the deck's release date by up to two months or more.

Simonart mentioned that he's not very experienced at deck handling, but that he hates the Guardians and loves the EATCT deck ("Expert at the Card Table" deck - it's designed to look like a classic book of the same name, which is about gambling and cheating methods and is considered one of the first treatises to cover modern sleight-of-hand techniques).  The deck he hates is actually one of my favorites - the Guardians are made from Bicycle stock, as far as I know, and just have the "standard" finish - in this case, using the traditional name Air Cushion Finish.  The EATCT deck is made on casino-grade Bee stock and is also using "standard" finish.  I don't recall if the finish is mentioned on the box, but it's considered a Bee deck and the standard finish for a textured Bee deck is called Cambric Finish.

Many people knock Bicycle stock, for much the same reason many people knock Bicycle cards (the basic model, sold in drug stores and newsstands all over the country).  It's sort of a love/hate thing!  But there are some very popular decks on the market right now that are using Bicycle stock with Magic Finish - among them would be all of the Crown Deck made by the Blue Crown and the NOC decks (pronounced like "Knock") from the House of Playing Cards (a Blue Crown subsidiary).  I think they perform very well myself.

You could go with standard finish (in the case, Air Cushion, or whatever other name you want to dream up), but these days, if you're making a USPC name-branded deck (Bicycle, in your case), they'll throw in the Magic Finish at no extra charge (unless they'd changed the pricing from the last time I looked).  There's also no price difference between using Aristocrat stock and Bicycle stock.  Be advised that while most people love the smooth, slick feel of Magic Finish decks, some find them to be way too slippery - you will NEVER please everyone!

Possible overfunding upgrades: gaff cards, embossing/debossing on the box, metal foil printing on the box, metallic inks on the deck...more custom Legos...  :))  Some designers will offer a stock upgrade, for people preferring Bee or Bee Casino, as an overfunding goal.  Posters...stickers...the list goes on...
« Last Edit: July 11, 2012, 12:53:55 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2012, 10:23:56 AM »
 

Paul Carpenter

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So with that goal amount, it's obviously a 2500 run. Since some of the tiers have no limits, I would assume that if they go way past it will get bumped up to 5000. A fun deck, it will definitely do very well. It does seem to be a trend of late to pick some well known franchise and design a deck around it.

Paul,

I LOVE my Tendril deck,  many thanks!

OK, can you let me in on the secret ?  Is there a 'tell' on the card backs?

Best,

Guy

I'll say that the Tendril back is 99.9% symmetrical and there is one tiny element that is not. It's very subtle. :)

Your deck is looking pretty great and congrats on the quick goal! You have an appealing project with a known franchise so that will definitely make it popular. Be prepared for lots of backers and packages to ship.

As to stocks, the most popular choice these days is Aristocrat with Magic finish. That info comes from the folks at USPCC. If you are looking at lots of ink saturation, you may consider stepping up to Bee Casino which is what I specced for Tendril, and magic finish. That may hold up better in the long run, though I'd guess that your deck won't be as much of a "user" by cardists and the like, more of a collector item.

As Don mentioned, Bee stocks get a different tuck case which adds 4-6 weeks production time, and in my case they had to reprint the entire 5000 run 4 FREAKIN TIMES to get it right. Hopefully that wouldn't happen again.
Paul Carpenter
Designer - http://encarded.com

Tendril Ascendant & Nightfall  /  Standards /  Chancellor, Zenith, Deco, Aurum, Tendril: Sold Out
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2012, 10:41:21 AM »
 

Himber

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So with that goal amount, it's obviously a 2500 run. Since some of the tiers have no limits, I would assume that if they go way past it will get bumped up to 5000. A fun deck, it will definitely do very well. It does seem to be a trend of late to pick some well known franchise and design a deck around it.

Paul,

I LOVE my Tendril deck,  many thanks!

OK, can you let me in on the secret ?  Is there a 'tell' on the card backs?

Best,

Guy

I'll say that the Tendril back is 99.9% symmetrical and there is one tiny element that is not. It's very subtle. :)

Your deck is looking pretty great and congrats on the quick goal! You have an appealing project with a known franchise so that will definitely make it popular. Be prepared for lots of backers and packages to ship.

As to stocks, the most popular choice these days is Aristocrat with Magic finish. That info comes from the folks at USPCC. If you are looking at lots of ink saturation, you may consider stepping up to Bee Casino which is what I specced for Tendril, and magic finish. That may hold up better in the long run, though I'd guess that your deck won't be as much of a "user" by cardists and the like, more of a collector item.

As Don mentioned, Bee stocks get a different tuck case which adds 4-6 weeks production time, and in my case they had to reprint the entire 5000 run 4 FREAKIN TIMES to get it right. Hopefully that wouldn't happen again.

AYE CARUMBAH!  Four times!?!?
Well... it was worth the wait - although I cheated and got my Tendril decks post-campaign so I didn't have to wait.

At present it looks like these will be the STRETCH rewards I am going to program in

1. Gaffe Card #2   ( #1 is already in with the 2nd King of Clubs )

2. 18th Century custom Tuck Box Seal

3. Upgrade to the Bee Casino Grade Paper

Looks like the Embossing and Metalic detailing will be too expensive to offer on my humble tuck box.
( and could add many weeks to the delivery time )

I am exploring some other stretch items such as stickers and etc. to sweeten the deal further.

Thanks for all of your suggestions and info Gents!
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2012, 11:03:19 AM »
 

dcell59

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You might also consider clips. The Grid deck folks got a lot of pledges for those. I ended up getting the set of all of the clips and adding a few more decks to the package on the side.
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #37 on: July 11, 2012, 11:07:14 AM »
 

RandyButterfield

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Hey Himber,

What about stretch reward of a custom Brick Box that looks like it's made up of a bunch of legos?
It would involve another photoshoot but it could have a few alcoves within the wall on the panels
and some of your favorite court minifigures could be standing in the alcoves. I'm picturing the
front panel looking like a castle wall, the Bicycle Logo in the center and flanked by an alcove on the
left and right, with Edison and Tesla inside (the back alcoves could hold Abe Lincon and Queen Victoria).
The smaller end panels could have the Moon graphic against the wall and the top panel could have the
Steampunk Heros logo and maybe a detailed scene that looks like the interior of a castle (or some
Steampunk type structure). I'm not overly familiar with Steampunk but there's a lot of cool possibilities
for a custom Brick Box made of Lego Bricks!!

thanks, Randy


EDIT: A dark grey Lego Brick Wall background on the Tuck Box (and maybe Back Design?) would add a
lot of depth over the current Black fill background which isn't doing the beautiful Face Designs any justice!

« Last Edit: July 11, 2012, 01:14:24 PM by RandyButterfield »
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #38 on: July 12, 2012, 10:50:10 AM »
 

Himber

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Morning Card Guys!

WOW, the Kickstarter campaign has been SCREAMING!

Already the BONUS Gaffe card has been unlocked, I am pretty sure the CUSTOM DECK SEAL will be unlocked by tomorrow ( if not today ) AND I think the BONUS upgrade to the BEE CASINO GRADE card stock is well within reach.

I am looking into including some vinyl stickers for another tier of BONUSES.....

AND, I am working on creating a special CUSTOM minifigure just for the KICKSTARTER campaign.

I am so , so humbled by the fantastic response that the deck has received.

Thanks!
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #39 on: July 12, 2012, 02:25:35 PM »
 

cosmicsecret

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Randy has some very good ideas here!
 :D
Currently waiting for those decks being released :
- Seasons [Primavera / Seronda]  / Aether [Vortex] / Bicycle [Actuators] / Mana [Oracle] / The Blue Crown - [Altruism] / Encarded [Tendril]
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #40 on: July 12, 2012, 03:44:37 PM »
 

dcell59

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What happened? I just noticed that the project is gone from Kickstarter.
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #41 on: July 12, 2012, 03:55:59 PM »
 

RandyButterfield

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What happened? I just noticed that the project is gone from Kickstarter.

My guess is Lego lawyers happened. Just because someone within the Lego organization gave approval doesn't mean the corporate lawyers are ok with it. I hope I'm wrong and it goes back up!

thanks, Randy

 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #42 on: July 12, 2012, 04:30:18 PM »
 

jmrock

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Mr. Creator / Designer... An explanation please?  You have been there from the start getting your followers and commenting on every other post... I am guessing you're in talks with Lego, and attorneys and such, but an update would be the respectable thing to do at this time...
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #43 on: July 12, 2012, 04:40:54 PM »
 

CBJ

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It was on track to demolish the record of most funded deck...  it's really a shame that it's down
  I was the featured collector on UC for May/June, check it out: http://bit.ly/UC_MyCollection

Also, follow me on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/BicyclePlayingCards
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #44 on: July 12, 2012, 06:50:10 PM »
 

Himber

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A little SNAFU

It's being worked out

: )
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #45 on: July 12, 2012, 07:28:20 PM »
 

jmrock

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Sounds more like a big snafu... Care to share any details?  We are all very curious as to the nature of the issues...
« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 07:28:42 PM by jmrock »
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #46 on: July 13, 2012, 03:49:37 AM »
 

peter01242

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The KickStarter project page is no longer available.
If you follow the link, you get 'Sorry, this project is no longer available.'.

I only found this project yesterday.
Any one know what happened?
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #47 on: July 13, 2012, 05:15:28 AM »
 

phantom1412

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The KickStarter project page is no longer available.
If you follow the link, you get 'Sorry, this project is no longer available.'.

I only found this project yesterday.
Any one know what happened?

I funded this project too.
But it's gone.
Is it cancelled?
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #48 on: July 13, 2012, 07:43:37 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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The KickStarter project page is no longer available.
If you follow the link, you get 'Sorry, this project is no longer available.'.

I only found this project yesterday.
Any one know what happened?

I funded this project too.
But it's gone.
Is it cancelled?


I can think of a number of GOOD reasons why this might have happened...  Don't panic, everyone.
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Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #49 on: July 16, 2012, 09:55:28 AM »
 

dcell59

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It would still be nice to hear what happened, or if it's going to come back. Kind of a slap in the face to the backers to leave us without anything.
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #50 on: July 16, 2012, 10:11:11 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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It would still be nice to hear what happened, or if it's going to come back. Kind of a slap in the face to the backers to leave us without anything.


Consider it from Himber's point of view.  He's probably hip-deep in this mess and trying to find a way out for him and his project.


I hate to say this, but I think the likeliest of all possibilities is that the lawyers over at either Lego, USPC or both got skittish and started flinging paper at each other and Himber.  I thought it was kind of too quick and easy about how he got the authorization to go ahead with the project.  Perhaps he thought he was legally OK but actually wasn't?  Or at the least is still swimming around in red tape trying to sort this out and still bring the project to the world?


Only time (and Himber) can tell...
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Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #51 on: July 16, 2012, 12:13:30 PM »
 

Paul Carpenter

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I have no knowledge on this one, but I can't imagine the pile of legality you would have to go through to make this kind of thing possible. You'd need USPCC, Lego and Kickstarter lawyers all 100% happy. Large brands like that are FIERCELY protective of their image and anything even remotely against their standards, previous work, official licensing, current marketing, etc will generally be nuked from legal orbit.

It's a sweet project, hope it comes back but I would not want to be in charge of it.
Paul Carpenter
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Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #52 on: July 16, 2012, 06:10:56 PM »
 

4pm Designer

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I've been following this deck like everyone else and I too was skeptical considering the licensing. Sure there's decks that exist that bare similarities or are inspired by other intellectual properties. The Grid is an example of how a product can receive skepticism due to its similarity to existing properties. This is ok to do as long as you dont feature someone elses designs/product. The Core deck on kickstarter is also a good example. Its inspired by Iron Man and has his core reactor. However, he doesnt feature Iron Man nor the actual core reactor, the creator designed his own core reactor. In copyrighting a product, you can only copyright the design and execution of the product, NOT the idea. You can make a chair with your own design and take on the chair but you cant get sued by the creator of the chair just because it has a backing, seating and four legs. Those are the ideas which bring it together, but not the design and execution. Now it's tough when you have a product and say you have no affiliations to an IP then actually feature the IP as your product. There's no way you're going to avoid the proper legal leg work. I work in the motion picture industry and have had my fair share of dealing with IPs. It's no easy matter.

However, from the looks of things, this project was removed, not cancelled. When someone cancels a project on kickstarter the page can not be deleted. It just remains there but says the funding was cancelled. This project however, simply vanished with no trace. It appears it was taken down directly by kickstarter. If this was a legal issue, My assumption is Lego's legal team contacted kickstarter directly for a cease and desist. Kickstarter has to approve your project before it goes live, so they obviously saw the property and took their word for it and went live. Then here comes Lego, "blocking" the project. See what I did there lol sorry I couldn't help it.

I'm anxious to hear what the creators have to say about the ordeal.
Creator of Legacy, The Grid, Grid 2.0 & Mythos: Necronomicon Bicycle® Playing Cards. CEO of 4PM DESIGNS.
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #53 on: July 16, 2012, 08:39:40 PM »
 

vmagic

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You make a good point, this wasn't cancelled, it was removed!
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #54 on: July 17, 2012, 11:55:39 PM »
 

jmrock

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Perhaps someone could explain what the difference is between being canceled and being removed... Sounds the same to me...
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #55 on: July 18, 2012, 01:25:45 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Perhaps someone could explain what the difference is between being canceled and being removed... Sounds the same to me...

When a project is canceled, the creator decided to fold it up - the page remains on the site.

When a project is removed, that's Kickstarter, taking the page down.  In this case, it was likely at the insistence of a handful of lawyers waving cease-and-desist letters...  The page is not on the site, the project doesn't come up in searches - it's as if it never existed in the first place.
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Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #56 on: July 19, 2012, 12:26:52 PM »
 

jmrock

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A little snafu, it's being worked out?  We haven't heard from this guy in a week... But boy was he on here wrong and strong just promoting the mess out of his deck... Perhaps an update, explanation, or really anything for that matter... If it did go live again, I'm out... For the Cosmo reasons, and the silence from Himber... Another poor example of how to handle a situation...
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #57 on: July 19, 2012, 03:09:08 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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A little snafu, it's being worked out?  We haven't heard from this guy in a week... But boy was he on here wrong and strong just promoting the mess out of his deck... Perhaps an update, explanation, or really anything for that matter... If it did go live again, I'm out... For the Cosmo reasons, and the silence from Himber... Another poor example of how to handle a situation...


For all we know, he's unable to discuss it - either by cease-and-desist or the advice of his own attorney.
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Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #58 on: July 27, 2012, 08:50:26 PM »
 

Himber

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A little snafu, it's being worked out?  We haven't heard from this guy in a week... But boy was he on here wrong and strong just promoting the mess out of his deck... Perhaps an update, explanation, or really anything for that matter... If it did go live again, I'm out... For the Cosmo reasons, and the silence from Himber... Another poor example of how to handle a situation...


For all we know, he's unable to discuss it - either by cease-and-desist or the advice of his own attorney.

Thank goodness somebody 'gets it'

More when I can share, NOT before

Best,

GH
 

Re: Live on Kickstarter -- Steampunk Heroes !
« Reply #59 on: July 28, 2012, 02:07:31 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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For all we know, he's unable to discuss it - either by cease-and-desist or the advice of his own attorney.

Thank goodness somebody 'gets it'

More when I can share, NOT before

Best,

GH

And there you have it.  For legal reasons, he's UNABLE to discuss the deck or the project.  It has nothing to do with terrible customer service.  It's seems clear that he'd like to post all about it, but simply can't.

Good luck in your battle of the attorneys.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 01:21:00 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Steampunk Heroes deck - now in legal limbo
« Reply #60 on: July 28, 2012, 10:38:46 AM »
 

vmagic

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Too bad he didn't clear his legal issues BEFORE he decided to sell them, this deck is probably dead.
 

Re: Steampunk Heroes deck - now in legal limbo
« Reply #61 on: July 29, 2012, 01:24:46 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Too bad he didn't clear his legal issues BEFORE he decided to sell them, this deck is probably dead.

Don't write it off completely just yet.  It's not beyond the realm of possibility that his lawyers can help hammer out an approved deal with Lego.  Though if that's the case, there's a chance that Lego would want to print the deck themselves - or a watered-down version of it using only Legos made by Lego and not altered.  Alternately, instead of watering it down, it's possible that Lego will even MAKE a series of "Steampunk Heroes" Lego sets to go with the deck - they really love when artists use their blocks in creative and imaginative ways; it helps them sell products.
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Re: Steampunk Heroes deck - now in legal limbo
« Reply #62 on: August 09, 2012, 10:30:26 PM »
 

NathanCanadas

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Well, I truly hope this will be solved and the deck will soon be rolling back once again. Good luck!
 

Re: Steampunk Heroes deck - now in legal limbo
« Reply #63 on: December 11, 2012, 07:31:40 PM »
 

Himber

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While I wait for Steampunk Heroes REDUX to get ready I have another deck coming to Kickstarter. 

The Freakies!

 

Re: Steampunk Heroes deck - now in legal limbo
« Reply #64 on: December 11, 2012, 07:43:31 PM »
 

loldudex2

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That deck looks sweet! I love the strangeness and the cereal theme!

I really hope the tuck box will look like a cereal box!
I LIKE MAILBOXES!
 

Re: Steampunk Heroes deck - now in legal limbo
« Reply #65 on: December 11, 2012, 09:15:33 PM »
 

Knobz1

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Ummm..........yeahhhh..........I'm at a loss for words.
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Re: Steampunk Heroes deck - now in legal limbo
« Reply #66 on: December 11, 2012, 10:21:57 PM »
 

Evan

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 :mindf-ck:   


(word count)
 

Re: Steampunk Heroes deck - now in legal limbo
« Reply #67 on: December 12, 2012, 01:04:14 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Wasn't this a real cereal, back in the day?  Have you checked for trademark and copyrights on it this time around?  These awesome ideas you have will all end up as nothing but pipe dreams without the rights to use the images and concepts.
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Re: Steampunk Heroes deck - now in legal limbo
« Reply #68 on: December 12, 2012, 10:11:49 AM »
 

Himber

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Wasn't this a real cereal, back in the day?  Have you checked for trademark and copyrights on it this time around?  These awesome ideas you have will all end up as nothing but pipe dreams without the rights to use the images and concepts.

Yep, I have full releases and support from Freakies LLC.

Side Note, RE: Steampunk Heroes, I had a written sign off from the Big 'L' company before the project went to Kickstarter ( this was a requirement from USPCC ).  They are a big Corporation , one might even say HUGE, and
the Left hand had some different opinions than the Right hand regarding some elements in the Steampunk Deck.

The result is that it has taken the Steampunk deck into a slightly changed, though thoroughly Mind-Blowing direction.
When I can share the REDUX version I certainly will do so.
: )

Patience, lil Grasshopper, patience....
 

Re: Steampunk Heroes deck - now in legal limbo
« Reply #69 on: December 12, 2012, 11:52:57 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Side Note, RE: Steampunk Heroes, I had a written sign off from the Big 'L' company before the project went to Kickstarter ( this was a requirement from USPCC ).  They are a big Corporation , one might even say HUGE, and
the Left hand had some different opinions than the Right hand regarding some elements in the Steampunk Deck.

The result is that it has taken the Steampunk deck into a slightly changed, though thoroughly Mind-Blowing direction.
When I can share the REDUX version I certainly will do so.
: )

Patience, lil Grasshopper, patience....


Sounds great!


I don't see why you needed to even mention Lego these days.  Aren't there other similar products (Kreo, Duplo, etc.) on the market?  Why even mention a product at all - just show interlocking blocks that are generic enough that they could be anyone's blocks and that should have covered your butt on Steampunk Heroes.  But regardless, you seem to have things covered with the REDUX version, so keep us posted - don't make us have to hunt you down...  :))
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