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Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)

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Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« on: June 03, 2014, 01:00:32 PM »
 

badpete69

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Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2014, 11:34:59 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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The concept is great and has a lot of potential, but there's a few tweaks it needs to be a fully-functional deck.  I contacted the creator and asked her to stop by.
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Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2014, 11:49:57 PM »
 

LeacockDesign

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Thanks Don!

I'm Steve, the designer/art director of Derby Deck, and Shannon is in charge of the illustrations. I really appreciate your offer to educate us on the finer points of card design. I'm a complete newbie to this world, but a print designer by profession.

One issue we've already grappled with is the Queen of Diamonds having a full-bleed colored background, and it was a tough call. We like that card so much aesthetically that we couldn't bear to bring in the background's margin and lose the amazing detail in the watercolor wash that Shannon painted. My ears are definitely open to any changes you think we might need.

« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 01:46:09 AM by LeacockDesign »
 

Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2014, 12:09:18 AM »
 

Rose

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You are very talented, I really would like to see more of the deck, and more of your work.
 

Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2014, 12:21:47 AM »
 

LeacockDesign

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Thanks Science, here's a couple of links:

Shannon's Tattoos & Illustrations: http://www.foreveryoungtattoo.com/
My Design Portfolio: http://www.leacockdesign.com
 

Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2014, 02:53:45 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Thanks Don!

I'm Steve, the designer/art director of Derby Deck, and Shannon is in charge of the illustrations. I really appreciate your offer to educate us on the finer points of card design. I'm a complete newbie to this world, but a print designer by profession.

One issue we've already grappled with is the Queen of Diamonds having a full-bleed colored background, and it was a tough call. We like that card so much aesthetically that we couldn't bear to bring in the background's margin and lose the amazing detail in the watercolor wash that Shannon painted. My ears are definitely open to any changes you think we might need.

That background into the bleed is one of the issues that make the deck less practical.  When cards are printed like that, you can actually spot them by looking at the edge of the deck - a real no-no for functionality.  I would suggest a slight size reduction combined with a "soft border" - a gradual fade as the image nears the edge of the card so it's white before you reach the die line.  I think you'd be able to preserve either 100% of the art or damn close to it.  The reduction need not be large - you could shave a single percentage point or perhaps two and be far enough from the edge.  One thing to be cautious of, especially with USPC, is that they focus on trying to get good registration on the card backs, since an off-center back is not desirable to anyone.  This means they focus a little less on the faces, which in turn means you really need to "color within the lines" - make the border whatever their minimum spec happens to be.  Thin-bordered backs are still pretty popular, but it drives their printers insane with how little margin for error some artists give them.

Speaking of backs...  Yours has a very obvious one-way design.  This in itself is not a bad thing, per se - but because of the fact that a deck can be stacked in a way to allow for identifying certain cards based on orientation with such as design, poker players will for the most part stay away from them.  Even a hint of being a cheat is anathema to them.  I would suggest making a "good girl/bad girl" deck pair as a stretch goal - make one back with the heart-bearing "good girl" and the lighter of the two background colors used, then make the other back with the knuckleduster-wielding "bad girl" in war paint and the darker background color.  Poker players love a poker set - two matched decks in different, easily-identified colors.

From a marketing standpoint, it's not a good idea to use the Ace of Spades art as your tuckbox face art - it's great but it's also really not representative of the art in the rest of the deck.  Take a joker or a lovely court card image with a roller girl on it, something that's both attractive and looks more like the other cards (or at least like the court cards, if you don't go with unique art on all the cards) and I think it will make a difference in sales, especially in the retail market after the Kickstarter project is completed.

As soon as is possible, I highly recommend getting more of your deck's artwork on the KS page - I would even suggest shooting a brief video explaining the theme and perhaps include real roller girls juxtaposed with their images on the cards (I'm assuming that many if not all of the cards are modeled on real players).  A good video is only about 60 to 90 seconds long and doesn't have to be a special effects extravaganza - it would consist largely of your and Shannon's thoughts on the deck, why you made it, why I should buy it, what is your campaign offering as rewards, etc.  A good video can make the difference between having or missing some additional sales.

But failing that, get more still images out there.  People love to see what they're backing, and so far you've only shown the box, the card back and five faces.  In an art-heavy deck, that's not enough.  Show off images of the rewards - signed decks, postcards, uncut sheets (ESPECIALLY uncut sheets, as there's a whole separate market that goes for uncut sheets, particularly when they're chock full of great art).  Uncut sheets are also a great way of showing off at least a hint of what the uncut sheet will look like.  For decks with customized courts/Aces and standard or near-standard faces, I've even seen an artist or two rearrange the card order on the uncut so as to place all the more artistic cards in the center, making it more attractive for wall hanging.  They'll also organize the remaining cards to create either a quarter-page or half-page scheme of alternating red and black cards.  For example, you could have the four aces dead center, ordered clockwise from top left as spades-hearts-clubs-diamonds, surround them with the matching court cards of that suit, then arrange the remaining cards of that suit in the same quadrant that the ace and courts appear in, so the entire sheet has the same order scheme as the aces in the center.

Oh, and don't forget the tuck boxes.  There's a subset of collectors who'll buy decks not to be opened but to be ogled in a display case, sealed and pristine - they go for very attractive boxes, especially if they have appropriately-placed elements such as metallic foil or embossing, or if they use a fancy vellum paper or heavy card stock rather than the ordinary single-ply stock used on tucks.  DISPLAY THE BOX, in its entirety and not just a image of the front obscured by a card.  Honestly, everyone loves a gorgeous box.  There's also options for printing the inside of the box, placing a foil lining in the box, etc.  Of course, these features would all cost extra, so you'd be using them as stretch goals, but an attractive box never hurt the sales of practically any product that fits in a box!

OK, my fingers are getting tired!  That's my two cents worth...I wish you much success with your project.

BTW: your postcard stamps that you mentioned in the rewards?  They no longer exist, as a one-ounce-or-less letter is now the same price as a postcard and has been for a few years already.  People just use the "forever" stamps or an equal value of stamps adding up to the current price.  :))
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Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2014, 04:20:42 AM »
 

LeacockDesign

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Thanks Don, lots to think about.

• I'm going to try some options with that card edge and see what I can come up with. I tend to prefer nice big margins in general, that one was a bit of a quandary when I got the art.

• Your idea for a pair of decks is very interesting. I'm going to bring that up as a possible stretch goal, though my guess is that it'll be too expensive. I also kinda hate to lose the one-way back, it's actually one of my favorite parts of the design, and really makes a statement about what the athletes are like... sweethearts who can knock you flat on your back.

• I've been toying with adding different cards to the tuck box. If nothing else, one of the upcoming courts might do the trick, possibly something with some actual derby action.

• I really love the idea of having the inspiration behind the cards represented in the video. With the project gaining funding as fast as it is, I think we could pull that off. Time to see if I can really use that copy of AfterEffects. We'll also be posting a lot of the in-process art for the remainder of the cards, and as soon as new cards are finished they'll go up in an update.

• I mocked up the tuck box without the obscuring card and will be adding it to the page shortly. I would love to do another deck, design it myself, and get some of those amazing foil or embossing effects on a nice heavy stock. The more I look at specialty decks, the more I realize how much talent is going into some of these things. The Jackson Robinson Sherlock Holmes deck... just incredible the amount of talent and patience it took to put that project together.

• I just checked up on postage rates, looks like postcards under 4x6 are 34¢ and letters under 1 ounce are 49¢.
http://postcalc.usps.gov/postcards.aspx

Thanks a million for taking the time to advise us! I'll try to apply what I can to our project, and if I ever design another deck, I'll be much better prepared. Looks like we just hit 20% funding, things are looking up.
 

Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2014, 01:52:13 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Thanks Don, lots to think about.

• I'm going to try some options with that card edge and see what I can come up with. I tend to prefer nice big margins in general, that one was a bit of a quandary when I got the art.

• Your idea for a pair of decks is very interesting. I'm going to bring that up as a possible stretch goal, though my guess is that it'll be too expensive. I also kinda hate to lose the one-way back, it's actually one of my favorite parts of the design, and really makes a statement about what the athletes are like... sweethearts who can knock you flat on your back.

• I've been toying with adding different cards to the tuck box. If nothing else, one of the upcoming courts might do the trick, possibly something with some actual derby action.

• I really love the idea of having the inspiration behind the cards represented in the video. With the project gaining funding as fast as it is, I think we could pull that off. Time to see if I can really use that copy of AfterEffects. We'll also be posting a lot of the in-process art for the remainder of the cards, and as soon as new cards are finished they'll go up in an update.

• I mocked up the tuck box without the obscuring card and will be adding it to the page shortly. I would love to do another deck, design it myself, and get some of those amazing foil or embossing effects on a nice heavy stock. The more I look at specialty decks, the more I realize how much talent is going into some of these things. The Jackson Robinson Sherlock Holmes deck... just incredible the amount of talent and patience it took to put that project together.

• I just checked up on postage rates, looks like postcards under 4x6 are 34¢ and letters under 1 ounce are 49¢.
http://postcalc.usps.gov/postcards.aspx

Thanks a million for taking the time to advise us! I'll try to apply what I can to our project, and if I ever design another deck, I'll be much better prepared. Looks like we just hit 20% funding, things are looking up.

Margins are good.  Thin margins are very attractive, though - you should try it.

One-way backs are in no way a deal-breaker.  I simply pointed out that collectors and poker players generally prefer two-way back designs.  Roller derby fans would probably neither realize nor care.  Collectors are merely a fraction of a fraction of the entire market as a whole, but they do spend far more than the average deck purchaser.  However, any deck that's been a big success has done so by extending their reach beyond just the card collecting community.

If printing with USPC isn't critical, you could also try using Expert Playing Card Company.  Get better cards for a much lower price.  Ask William Kalush at wkalush@expertplayingcard.com for more info and pricing.  His decks are among the best in the collectors' market, if not the best.  Then perhaps you could afford those bells and whistles you want for this deck instead of a future project!

I see why I was confused about the postcard costs - notice that a large postcard is exactly the same price as a one-ounce letter.  That must have been what I noticed.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 01:53:15 PM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2014, 05:43:19 AM »
 

PurpleIce

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Thanks Don, lots to think about.

• I'm going to try some options with that card edge and see what I can come up with. I tend to prefer nice big margins in general, that one was a bit of a quandary when I got the art.

• Your idea for a pair of decks is very interesting. I'm going to bring that up as a possible stretch goal, though my guess is that it'll be too expensive. I also kinda hate to lose the one-way back, it's actually one of my favorite parts of the design, and really makes a statement about what the athletes are like... sweethearts who can knock you flat on your back.

• I've been toying with adding different cards to the tuck box. If nothing else, one of the upcoming courts might do the trick, possibly something with some actual derby action.

• I really love the idea of having the inspiration behind the cards represented in the video. With the project gaining funding as fast as it is, I think we could pull that off. Time to see if I can really use that copy of AfterEffects. We'll also be posting a lot of the in-process art for the remainder of the cards, and as soon as new cards are finished they'll go up in an update.

• I mocked up the tuck box without the obscuring card and will be adding it to the page shortly. I would love to do another deck, design it myself, and get some of those amazing foil or embossing effects on a nice heavy stock. The more I look at specialty decks, the more I realize how much talent is going into some of these things. The Jackson Robinson Sherlock Holmes deck... just incredible the amount of talent and patience it took to put that project together.

• I just checked up on postage rates, looks like postcards under 4x6 are 34¢ and letters under 1 ounce are 49¢.
http://postcalc.usps.gov/postcards.aspx

Thanks a million for taking the time to advise us! I'll try to apply what I can to our project, and if I ever design another deck, I'll be much better prepared. Looks like we just hit 20% funding, things are looking up.

Margins are good.  Thin margins are very attractive, though - you should try it.

One-way backs are in no way a deal-breaker.  I simply pointed out that collectors and poker players generally prefer two-way back designs.  Roller derby fans would probably neither realize nor care.  Collectors are merely a fraction of a fraction of the entire market as a whole, but they do spend far more than the average deck purchaser.  However, any deck that's been a big success has done so by extending their reach beyond just the card collecting community.

If printing with USPC isn't critical, you could also try using Expert Playing Card Company.  Get better cards for a much lower price.  Ask William Kalush at wkalush@expertplayingcard.com for more info and pricing.  His decks are among the best in the collectors' market, if not the best.  Then perhaps you could afford those bells and whistles you want for this deck instead of a future project!

I see why I was confused about the postcard costs - notice that a large postcard is exactly the same price as a one-ounce letter.  That must have been what I noticed.

I like this deck.

I hope that statement helps. If not, i will add that i also pledged for them.  ;)

Just a few things i thought i would say, like what was mentioned, the one way backs are by no means a major game changer. Of course, you would like to get to as wide a market as possible, but as a collector, i don't really care as long as the art is great.

Being a collector who displays tuck boxes in display cases and doesn't open decks unless I have spares, I would love to see the tuckbox as a whole, simply because i have seen some tucks with really great fronts but horrible back designs. It is a real pity if such things happen.

Actually, i seldom watch videos because i am lazy like that. If images of your deck doesn't capture me, i don't wanna hear bull about why you think i should buy your deck. So, instead, add more images to your KS page. It lets people know what they are getting, and if your art is good enough, you won't have any worries about showing too much. The ideas about uncut sheet from Don are also good, and if possible, could post up images especially if you arranged them in a special way.

 

Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2014, 07:43:23 PM »
 

LeacockDesign

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Hey guys, back again with some new stuff from the deck.

I went ahead and created a (very rough) mockup of the Queen of Diamonds with the border cut the same way as the rest of the courts, and I think I'm going to push for us to implement this change in the final printed deck. I find it more attractive than I expected to, and solving that problem with functionality just feels like the right move.

I've attached some mockups of the number cards, curious if y'all have any comments/critiques.

I'm also working on a version of the cards with thin borders. After you mentioned it, Don, I looked at some of my friend's card decks (he's a poker fanatic), and the versions with thin borders look very clean and classy. I think my preference for wide margins comes from a fundamental mistrust of printers and their attention to detail.

Thanks again!
 

Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2014, 08:27:15 PM »
 

shadowkat

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I enjoy the pip layout and think the bordered version works well.  I am a backer, and have been spreading the link to folks in the derby community.  I really hope this funds and is made!  I know that Don mentioned EPCC earlier, have you given any thought to that?  I mention it because they seem to have more affordable rates.  I love USPCC as well, so I am happy either way. 
 

Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2014, 08:41:37 PM »
 

LeacockDesign

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Thanks Shadowkat,

We've looked into EPCC, and they're an attractive option for plan B (if the kickstarter doesn't get funded this time around). We've been marketing as a USPCC deck the entire time, so It'd be a bit of a bummer to have to tell our existing backers that we're changing printers. We just got a demo deck from EPCC today and the quality is faaantastic.

Thanks for sharing, we definitely appreciate it. I just want to hold a deck of these cards in my hand!
 

Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2014, 10:46:00 PM »
 

bamabenz

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I was tempted to pledge, but then saw the bottom reward:

Ad Spaaaaaaace - Have your ad printed on 1 side of one card and included in all decks from this Kickstarter campaign (minimum 2,500 decks). We'll also send you 10 decks to show off your ad. You'll need to provide the ad artwork and ad design and content subject to our approval. Please contact us with your ad information prior to the close of the Kickstarter campaign for approval.

Why would I pay $10 for a deck with ads?

/bama
 

Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2014, 12:32:21 AM »
 

LeacockDesign

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Bama,

I can see your perspective. You're paying a premium for something that, without the extra art, would cost a couple of bucks, and for that 500% markup, you expect something special, and something unsullied with ads. From the perspective of a purist, this makes sense to me. I get annoyed when I pay for a BluRay and I have to watch a bunch of ads for other movies before I get to the content I paid for... I can relate.

Our reasoning for adding the option is to try to get to our goal faster. We're taking our first trip into this world, and during the planning phase we tried to find every possible way to accelerate the funding process. It may have been a bad call, though the way things are going now, I'm not sure we're going to sell any of the ad space anyway. I'm personally hoping we get funded without selling any of them. If that's the case, we may design some special cards, like a double-back.

I personally wouldn't make a yes or no decision on a deck based on the presence of ad cards. I figure, if I'm collecting and keep it sealed in a display case, the ads are invisible. If i'm going to open the deck and use the cards, I'll discard the ads and that's pretty much the end of it. That's just me, though, and I am definitely NOT a collector. Not yet anyway.

I'm actually curious what kinds of extra cards you'd recommend for the two spares that come in a standard deck (assuming we don't get funded) ... any thoughts?

Thanks for the input!
 

Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2014, 01:11:00 AM »
 

PurpleIce

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I was tempted to pledge, but then saw the bottom reward:

Ad Spaaaaaaace - Have your ad printed on 1 side of one card and included in all decks from this Kickstarter campaign (minimum 2,500 decks). We'll also send you 10 decks to show off your ad. You'll need to provide the ad artwork and ad design and content subject to our approval. Please contact us with your ad information prior to the close of the Kickstarter campaign for approval.

You could solve the problem by pledging for that tier? than it would be YOUR AD!!! Isnt that cooler?  :P

I'm actually curious what kinds of extra cards you'd recommend for the two spares that come in a standard deck (assuming we don't get funded) ... any thoughts?

Jokers. Extra Jokers. Double Backers. Gaff Cards. The spares are open to your creativity i feel, there is no standard or "must haves" in the spares.

I think generally Gaffs or Diptych are more of a favourite, but if you can come out with something more creative, then by all means!!!
 

Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2014, 01:32:30 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Hey guys, back again with some new stuff from the deck.

I went ahead and created a (very rough) mockup of the Queen of Diamonds with the border cut the same way as the rest of the courts, and I think I'm going to push for us to implement this change in the final printed deck. I find it more attractive than I expected to, and solving that problem with functionality just feels like the right move.

I've attached some mockups of the number cards, curious if y'all have any comments/critiques.

I'm also working on a version of the cards with thin borders. After you mentioned it, Don, I looked at some of my friend's card decks (he's a poker fanatic), and the versions with thin borders look very clean and classy. I think my preference for wide margins comes from a fundamental mistrust of printers and their attention to detail.

Thanks again!

The border looks good.  And you're right to distrust printers!  :))

I would, however, suggest one of two things, both stemming from one potential issue.  The indices on the spot cards appear to be matched in placement to those of the courts - but they're a bit too far from the edge.  Indices are one thing that you want right there at the very edge for easier reading when the cards are tightly fanned to prevent others at the table from seeing them.

One option would be to enlarge the court art a bit and narrow the margin a bit.  It would look nice artistically and then you'd follow suit on the spot cards by doing the same in terms of index placement.

The other option, comparable to what you see on off-the-shelf, standard decks like Bee and Bicycle, is to put the index outside of the court art and close to the edge, and again, moving the indices on the spot cards to match the placement.  Considering the boldness of the typeface chosen, you could even reduce the size just a skosh.  I don't think I'd want you to lose the bold in favor of something thinner - that typeface looks great as is and I can't imagine that removing the bold would improve it.

Also, strive for uniformity in terms of index size, especially with things like the "10" card's index width.  It's interesting to notice with standard decks, but every card has an index that's the same height and width as on all the other cards, regardless of what the value and suit are.  They also generally use suit symbols that are half as tall as the value letter or numeral(s).  Companies like USPC have been making decks for so long it's practically a science at this point - they're 129 years old as of this year.

But one thing I want to tell you - feel free to tell me to stuff it with any or all of these ideas.  They're not set in stone, and your deck is much more fun and artistic than most so go ahead and bend or break a few rules if it adds to the deck's charm.

I was tempted to pledge, but then saw the bottom reward:

Ad Spaaaaaaace - Have your ad printed on 1 side of one card and included in all decks from this Kickstarter campaign (minimum 2,500 decks). We'll also send you 10 decks to show off your ad. You'll need to provide the ad artwork and ad design and content subject to our approval. Please contact us with your ad information prior to the close of the Kickstarter campaign for approval.

Why would I pay $10 for a deck with ads?

/bama


You already do, you knucklehead!  :))  (I mean that affectionately - your head isn't made of knuckles!)  How many times have you opened a pack of cards and found one of the extras with the company's name on it?  Congratulations, you discovered an ad card!

I'm actually curious what kinds of extra cards you'd recommend for the two spares that come in a standard deck (assuming we don't get funded) ... any thoughts?

Thanks for the input!

Ad cards are FINE.  If this was a deck made to appeal to magicians, I'd recommend some gaff (trick) cards, but it's not.  Suggestions from me would be to make a third joker - something identical to the other joker.  Some games call for identical jokers, some games call for one joker to be of a higher "rank" than the other, so two jokers that match and one joker that doesn't would be a fine combination.

Another suggestion: take that ad card and make the back of it a solid color, like a cut card used in poker.  The cut card is used to conceal the bottom card of the pack while the dealer is dealing, preventing any player from taking advantage of that knowledge.  It's usually a piece of plastic identical in size and shape to a poker card, but your ad card could do the job just fine.

The one thing I would say in Bama's defense would be that while ad cards are common, the product advertised is usually some product related to cards and is produced by the same company that made the deck - for example, a USPC deck with an ad card for a book of poker rules or a set of poker chips with the company name on it.  In your case, an ad for anything related to roller derby would be an excellent fit - know of a website that sells memorabilia of the sport?

Last idea - it's also a common feature of some decks to have one card used as a list of poker hand ranks.  You could take it a step further by making the hand images out of the cards from your deck.  For example, for the rank of "full house" you could display three tens and two queens, displaying on the last card of the spread the queen artwork from one of your deck's queens.  I think that would be a cool and classy addition.
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Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2014, 04:59:19 AM »
 

shadowkat

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As far as extra cards go, I'd love to have an simple explanation of the rules to give to friends.  I am  curious if there will be a representation of the refs in the deck.  They are a big part of Derby! 
 

Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2014, 06:34:18 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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As far as extra cards go, I'd love to have an simple explanation of the rules to give to friends.  I am  curious if there will be a representation of the refs in the deck.  They are a big part of Derby!

You mean the rules of roller derby, right?  That is an excellent idea!

Include a directory website with a listing of known roller derby leagues/venues.  (If one doesn't exist - make one!)
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Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2014, 06:25:41 PM »
 

shadowkat

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As far as extra cards go, I'd love to have an simple explanation of the rules to give to friends.  I am  curious if there will be a representation of the refs in the deck.  They are a big part of Derby!

You mean the rules of roller derby, right?  That is an excellent idea!

Include a directory website with a listing of known roller derby leagues/venues.  (If one doesn't exist - make one!)

The rules of roller derby was exactly what I was thinking!  I like the idea of the directory as well.    8)
« Last Edit: June 15, 2014, 06:29:46 PM by shadowkat »
 

Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2014, 09:26:41 AM »
 

Rose

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I have to be careful of a deck that is not even finished.
"and we need your help to finish the set" from the KS page, if the designs are not completed how can backers be sure they will receive a deck at all? Not to mention that this is someone who "who owns and operates" their own tattoo shop, do they even have time?
So far "This project is a labor of love that has been several years in the making" but now the remainder of the deck will be designed, finished, printed and distributed by the end of the year?
I can't back this...
 

Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2014, 07:52:11 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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I have to be careful of a deck that is not even finished.
"and we need your help to finish the set" from the KS page, if the designs are not completed how can backers be sure they will receive a deck at all? Not to mention that this is someone who "who owns and operates" their own tattoo shop, do they even have time?
So far "This project is a labor of love that has been several years in the making" but now the remainder of the deck will be designed, finished, printed and distributed by the end of the year?
I can't back this...

I recall noticing that as well.  It doesn't necessarily mean that the deck won't be delivered, but it does mean there's a good chance it will deliver late.  It's what happened to Lance Miller with his Artist's Edition Bicycle Actuators on KS.  He was late by months because he hadn't completed at least most of the art before launching the project.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2014, 07:52:51 PM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2014, 08:27:15 PM »
 

Rose

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I have to be careful of a deck that is not even finished.
"and we need your help to finish the set" from the KS page, if the designs are not completed how can backers be sure they will receive a deck at all? Not to mention that this is someone who "who owns and operates" their own tattoo shop, do they even have time?
So far "This project is a labor of love that has been several years in the making" but now the remainder of the deck will be designed, finished, printed and distributed by the end of the year?
I can't back this...

I recall noticing that as well.  It doesn't necessarily mean that the deck won't be delivered, but it does mean there's a good chance it will deliver late.  It's what happened to Lance Miller with his Artist's Edition Bicycle Actuators on KS.  He was late by months because he hadn't completed at least most of the art before launching the project.

To be honest I had just finished reading the update for 'The Type Deck' on KS and while I think she is off to an amazing start and is a genuine person, it just made me wonder.
 

Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2014, 11:22:07 PM »
 

PurpleIce

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I have to be careful of a deck that is not even finished.
"and we need your help to finish the set" from the KS page, if the designs are not completed how can backers be sure they will receive a deck at all? Not to mention that this is someone who "who owns and operates" their own tattoo shop, do they even have time?
So far "This project is a labor of love that has been several years in the making" but now the remainder of the deck will be designed, finished, printed and distributed by the end of the year?
I can't back this...

I recall noticing that as well.  It doesn't necessarily mean that the deck won't be delivered, but it does mean there's a good chance it will deliver late.  It's what happened to Lance Miller with his Artist's Edition Bicycle Actuators on KS.  He was late by months because he hadn't completed at least most of the art before launching the project.

To be honest I had just finished reading the update for 'The Type Deck' on KS and while I think she is off to an amazing start and is a genuine person, it just made me wonder.

I think its still okay to back it for the time being. There are many decks on KS that are still on the works while the project is running, be it minor editing or doing a brand new court card. I think what is more important is that the designer keeps on updating the deck and cards as the project timer ticks down. I feel backing gives the designer some motivation to continue doing their stuff instead of worrying about how the project is running.

If not, there is always time to cancel your pledge should you feel the designer is not updating, has gone missing, or somehow unable to fulfill his delivery timing. Then again, I'm not saying that i agree with it, but there are tons of late projects in KS now, even from better known designers. Some blame USPCC, some blame the tuck box company, and others blame the logistics company. Most importantly, i feel is that they update you with proof/imagesand work on the delivery.
 

Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2014, 04:47:12 PM »
 

LeacockDesign

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A Roller Derby rules card! That's brilliant! We actually had the idea to make a roller derby rules coloring book as a kind of kitschy item that teams could hand out at bouts, but this is a really cool way we could round out the deck.

I understand the hesitance about supporting a deck that isn't completely designed yet. I can tell you that it's my job to manage the art creation process and keep Shannon on track. The timeline posted to the Kickstarter page is an outside estimate, assuming that the art takes longer than we expect. Running a tattoo shop means Shannon is experienced with creating art on a schedule, so she can most definitely make it happen.

You don't know me, so I can offer no proof of our intentions, I can only tell you that while we're new to the world of playing cards, I'm a professional at what I do, and Shannon is a professional at what she does, and everyone on our team is extremely excited to hold a deck of these cards in our hand. We want this project to get finished and delivered rapidly as much as anyone!
 

Re: Shannon Young's Derby Deck (KS)
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2014, 12:01:00 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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It's your first deck and it's a common thing for first time deck makers to want to take the art a piece at a time, gradually, perhaps even not launching with all the art in place yet.

However, it's better for customer satisfaction that if your deck isn't 100% finished (though open to tweaks) before the launch, then it should be mighty close to 100% by the time the project closes.  A major disadvantage to NOT doing it this way is that you're trying to sell people on your deck when they've only seen a fraction of the artwork that will be appearing in it.  Having that finished or near-finished product helps when you're asking strangers for money!
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