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RongoRongo (KS)

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RongoRongo (KS)
« on: June 29, 2014, 03:16:24 PM »
 

badpete69

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Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2014, 11:35:08 PM »
 

Rose

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There are so many things to like about this deck, intricate back, custom faces and pips and background, theme deck, nice design box looks good and a great fan, just not sure if I am a fan. Still Well Done!
« Last Edit: June 29, 2014, 11:36:02 PM by Rose »
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2014, 08:12:19 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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The design is very cool - but I HATE those courts.  Seriously.  I'm a little disappointed.
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Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2014, 11:00:04 PM »
 

Rose

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The design is very cool - but I HATE those courts.  Seriously.  I'm a little disappointed.
Yeah, I agree.
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2014, 11:46:55 PM »
 

PurpleIce

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The design is very cool - but I HATE those courts.  Seriously.  I'm a little disappointed.
Yeah, I agree.

Same here. OMG why those courts...WHY!?!?

The courts doesn't give enough credit to the rest of the deck. Pity..
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2014, 12:02:55 AM »
 

Rob Wright

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The design is very cool - but I HATE those courts.  Seriously.  I'm a little disappointed.
Yeah, I agree.

Same here. OMG why those courts...WHY!?!?

The courts doesn't give enough credit to the rest of the deck. Pity..

I like them. No two are the same, but all are a cohesive thought. I think they fit the deck.
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Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2014, 01:03:19 PM »
 

MrMollusk

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I don't mind the courts either.

While they are extremely unconventional, they're well designed and fit into the deck's design and theme flawlessly. The overall deck's super interesting and creative too.
Definitely backing this one.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2014, 02:26:35 AM »
 

PurpleIce

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The courts definitely tie down well with the theme. If you ask me, overall, it is a great deck with a good theme.

Its just the back is so nice...but those courts...couldn't it be a little more than just circles? I mean, create an outline of a fish or animal or whatever with that head. Even the joker has an outline of "something". I'm no RongoRongo expert, but i'm sure K,Q,J can be more than just a circle head.
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2014, 02:01:41 PM »
 

tomas

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http://www.matifu.com/rongorongo/pics/rr_black_gold2.png

There are several RR decks coming. I setup a voting site for my backers so we can go through this process together.
We are voting for the design of a limited RongoRongo BLACK deck (specs here)
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/matifu/rongorongo/posts

on RongoRongo backers site (we welcome your votes even if you did not back this project)
http://www.matifu.com/rongorongo/backers.html

tomas
 

RongoRongo 2 -the Re-launch (KS)
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2014, 02:11:15 AM »
 

Rob Wright

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RongoRongo 2 -the Re-launch



Black Deck

Gilded Deck

Gold Deck
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Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2014, 10:18:32 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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No real design changes, from the looks of it.
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Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2014, 04:38:06 AM »
 

tomas

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There are massive changes to most of the cards, all courts were redesigned. Backs did not change.
You can see cards on KS
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/matifu/rongorongo-2

Tomas
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2014, 07:15:17 PM »
 

tomas

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Some cards from the new RongoRongo 2 deck
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2014, 07:16:18 PM »
 

tomas

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more cards / coin / GILDED and BLACK decks
 

RongoRongo 2
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2014, 07:19:28 PM »
 

tomas

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RongoRongo 2 decks on Kickstarter live now
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/matifu/rongorongo-2

 

Re: RongoRongo 2
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2014, 07:20:48 PM »
 

tomas

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more cards
 

Re: RongoRongo 2
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2014, 07:22:38 PM »
 

tomas

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more cards
 

Re: RongoRongo 2
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2014, 07:48:43 PM »
 

tomas

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We are running $1 BIRDMAN SPECIALS every day so far. Today the winner got 2 decks + 1 coin + 1 pair of dice
Tomorrow we take a break; the next BIRDMAN SPECIAL is on Wednesday at noon EST
 

Re: RongoRongo 2
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2014, 07:57:42 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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We are running $1 BIRDMAN SPECIALS every day so far. Today the winner got 2 decks + 1 coin + 1 pair of dice
Tomorrow we take a break; the next BIRDMAN SPECIAL is on Wednesday at noon EST

Tomas, to be clear, this is NOT a deck review - it's an ad for a deck that is on Kickstarter and hasn't been produced yet.  I'm merging this with the pre-existing topic in the Plethora.
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Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2014, 08:50:44 PM »
 

tomas

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I'm not sure I understand you.

You stated "No real design changes, from the looks of it."
when the changes are massive: almost all cards were redesigned (except for backs).

That's why I posted new cards from the new deck.
Of course this is a KS project -- the link clearly states that.
I am not reviewing anything, it's my deck.
I am just posting correct pictures to clarify that the decks were completely redesigned.

I don't understand the "ad" comment -- everything we discussed so far was always about KS project.
We discussed at length individual pledges, budgets, etc.
The Birdman Special is a pledge; I thought the participants of this forum would be interested to learn that.
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2014, 11:46:27 PM »
 

Rob Wright

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I'm not sure I understand you.

You stated "No real design changes, from the looks of it."
when the changes are massive: almost all cards were redesigned (except for backs).

That's why I posted new cards from the new deck.
Of course this is a KS project -- the link clearly states that.
I am not reviewing anything, it's my deck.
I am just posting correct pictures to clarify that the decks were completely redesigned.

I don't understand the "ad" comment -- everything we discussed so far was always about KS project.
We discussed at length individual pledges, budgets, etc.
The Birdman Special is a pledge; I thought the participants of this forum would be interested to learn that.

tomas,
I can explain part of what Don was saying, sans the first comment.

We have specific sections for reviews and sales of already produced decks. By "ad" meaning you were promoting your project on KS. He merged your new thread with the one that was already started. We merge double threads to help keep the place tidy.

If you have special promotions, like The Birdman Special, as part of your KS project. By all means post about it. There are members that may be interested. We just ask that you hang around and participate as an active member.

Thanks and good luck with the project.
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Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2014, 08:09:44 AM »
 

tomas

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If I placed this project in a wrong section then I apologize, I'm not familiar with the structure of your site.
I'll be happy to answer any questions about this deck or the KS campaign we run.
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2014, 12:10:20 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I'm not sure I understand you.

You stated "No real design changes, from the looks of it."
when the changes are massive: almost all cards were redesigned (except for backs).

That's why I posted new cards from the new deck.
Of course this is a KS project -- the link clearly states that.
I am not reviewing anything, it's my deck.
I am just posting correct pictures to clarify that the decks were completely redesigned.

I don't understand the "ad" comment -- everything we discussed so far was always about KS project.
We discussed at length individual pledges, budgets, etc.
The Birdman Special is a pledge; I thought the participants of this forum would be interested to learn that.

tomas,
I can explain part of what Don was saying, sans the first comment.

We have specific sections for reviews and sales of already produced decks. By "ad" meaning you were promoting your project on KS. He merged your new thread with the one that was already started. We merge double threads to help keep the place tidy.

If you have special promotions, like The Birdman Special, as part of your KS project. By all means post about it. There are members that may be interested. We just ask that you hang around and participate as an active member.

Thanks and good luck with the project.

The full gist of it was that the post was dropped in "Deck Reviews!" as opposed to the correct board, "Playing Card Plethora".  I did indeed state that it wasn't a review, that it was an ad for your deck - which frankly we don't mind too much around here, since people promote playing cards here all the time.  We simply ask that they put them in the correct place.

Changes - please feel free to explain the changes you've made to your deck, I'm certain the members here would appreciate having them pointed out in detail.

Your "Birdman Special" is probably what in English would be better known as an "Early Bird Special", from the expression "The early bird catches the worm."  Birdman is a Hanna-Barbera cartoon superhero in the US, though on the most recent series in which he appears, "Harvey Birdman, Attorney at Law", he's more of a comic punch line, working at a law firm that specializes in cases that other H-B cartoon characters bring up against each other.  It's like how General Motors tried selling the Chevrolet Nova automobile in Mexico, completely neglecting the fact that "No va" means "doesn't go" in Spanish...
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Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2014, 02:37:14 AM »
 

DarkDerp

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Quote
The full gist of it was that the post was dropped in "Deck Reviews!" as opposed to the correct board, "Playing Card Plethora".  I did indeed state that it wasn't a review, that it was an ad for your deck - which frankly we don't mind too much around here, since people promote playing cards here all the time.  We simply ask that they put them in the correct place.

Changes - please feel free to explain the changes you've made to your deck, I'm certain the members here would appreciate having them pointed out in detail.

Your "Birdman Special" is probably what in English would be better known as an "Early Bird Special", from the expression "The early bird catches the worm."  Birdman is a Hanna-Barbera cartoon superhero in the US, though on the most recent series in which he appears, "Harvey Birdman, Attorney at Law", he's more of a comic punch line, working at a law firm that specializes in cases that other H-B cartoon characters bring up against each other.  It's like how General Motors tried selling the Chevrolet Nova automobile in Mexico, completely neglecting the fact that "No va" means "doesn't go" in Spanish...

Birdman was also the name of  a crazy guy in Alcatraz prison, a contemporary rap artist, a former basketball player for the Miami Heat and the title  awarded to the winner of an ancient contest to collect the first egg of the season. It was held on some  island named Easter Isle, its that famous one  with all the  Rongo Rongo glyphs.. hey wait.

Also, I'm fairly certain  they speak english  where Tomas lives. I actually know a guy that lives in New York Ill ask him to make sure.. after he gets some rest. :P
« Last Edit: August 30, 2014, 02:39:04 AM by DarkDerp »
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Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2014, 04:25:13 PM »
 

sprouts1115

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I like the Birdman.  Just think of what the fan will look like with that Birdman. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ImZTwYwCug&list=RD2ImZTwYwCug
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2014, 07:54:17 PM »
 

tomas

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Don -- I posted in the wrong section, my bad.

The word BIRDMAN has a completely different meaning in our RongoRongo project.

Any attempt to compare it to “Early Bird” of any type should be avoided, because it’s a pure coincidence that both expressions include the word “bird” in them.

So the $1 BIRDMAN SPECIAL has nothing to do with “Early Bird Special” of any kind.

Our BIRDMAN comes from the cult of BIRDMAN, a religion which was observed on Easter Island after the fall of MOAIs. The BIRDMAN race took place every year on Easter Island and it was an extreme form of IronMan competitions (swim, bike, run) we know today. The racers scaled sheer cliffs and swam in shark infested waters to reach an egg of a bird on another island. Many died during the competition. The winner of the race (actually, the sponsor of the winner) was crowned the BIRDMAN for one year, with an absolute power to rule over all other clans.
We have our own BIRDMAN, who was crowned after a race to solve our RongoRongo puzzle. Almost every day he starts a BIRDMAN RACE for the $1 BIRDMAN SPECIAL, which includes decks of cards and other items. The races start between noon and 1 PM EST – I don’t know the time, BIRDMAN uses the comments section to call for the release of the $1 BIRDMAN PLEDGE.

The future races will take between 12:00 noon and 12:15 PM EST.

Although the fascination with the butt of the Birdman figure should be applauded, the butts themselves are not featured in any type of fans because they are far from the edge of the card.



 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2014, 09:04:50 PM »
 

sprouts1115

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@tomas - You're right I'm picking on you.  I'll stop.  I'm just trying to point out what seems to me the obvious. I'm just saying the top part of the card is what you see when you're playing against an opponent.  In your cards, this is what your going to see. 
 

I do like your .gif with the spread of your cards.  I think all Kickstarter projects should use that as a standard. 

 
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 09:13:05 PM by sprouts1115 »
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2014, 02:41:26 AM »
 

tomas

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That's ok, as long as we understand a few facts:

1. The birdman name relates to the birdman cult, not to any pre-sales. The birdman was a half man half bird god in Rapa Nui culture.

2. The birdman glyph was always fitted into stones regardless of the orientation and the vast majority of artifacts show it in what you consider an "upside down" position. For over 1,000 years this glyph was featured in hundreds of locations in what you consider incorrect orientation, so your comments should be adressed to RongoRongo scibes, not to me -- I just follow a well established format.

3. Your butt comments are incorrect on many levels:
(a) orientation as per 2 and per enclosed pic showing a typical orientation of a birdman petroglyph
(b) visibility - the concept of a fan is what I show in my gif; elements deep into the center of the card are not visible in a fan
(c) a card cut is half is not what we see when we look at our opponent's hands. The enclosed picture shows a more typical situation






 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2014, 03:02:25 AM »
 

tomas

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The fan is constructed to show another figure associated with Easter Island mythology, the Sun God. The Easter Island culture was famous for their knowledge of astronomy, so I designed the backs to create a glyph of Sun God in a fan.
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2014, 09:45:48 AM »
 

publius

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That black deck. Love it. To me, this deck is a black deck. The blue and the gold don't do it as much for me - but the black really fits well with this design in my opinion. As far as the courts, I think they're great. You can't ask for more than for a themed deck to have themed courts. And to create a completely never before seen artistic approach for court cards, that is all the more awesome. Good job.
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Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #30 on: September 02, 2014, 07:31:09 PM »
 

tomas

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thanks publius, I appreciate your comments. the black deck is also my favorite.
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #31 on: September 02, 2014, 10:43:16 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Don -- I posted in the wrong section, my bad.

The word BIRDMAN has a completely different meaning in our RongoRongo project.

Any attempt to compare it to “Early Bird” of any type should be avoided, because it’s a pure coincidence that both expressions include the word “bird” in them.

So the $1 BIRDMAN SPECIAL has nothing to do with “Early Bird Special” of any kind.

Our BIRDMAN comes from the cult of BIRDMAN, a religion which was observed on Easter Island after the fall of MOAIs. The BIRDMAN race took place every year on Easter Island and it was an extreme form of IronMan competitions (swim, bike, run) we know today. The racers scaled sheer cliffs and swam in shark infested waters to reach an egg of a bird on another island. Many died during the competition. The winner of the race (actually, the sponsor of the winner) was crowned the BIRDMAN for one year, with an absolute power to rule over all other clans.
We have our own BIRDMAN, who was crowned after a race to solve our RongoRongo puzzle. Almost every day he starts a BIRDMAN RACE for the $1 BIRDMAN SPECIAL, which includes decks of cards and other items. The races start between noon and 1 PM EST – I don’t know the time, BIRDMAN uses the comments section to call for the release of the $1 BIRDMAN PLEDGE.

The future races will take between 12:00 noon and 12:15 PM EST.

Although the fascination with the butt of the Birdman figure should be applauded, the butts themselves are not featured in any type of fans because they are far from the edge of the card.

I'm inclined to doubt the natives of the island used the actual word "BIRDMAN" to describe it.  Perhaps using the word in its original tongue would be more accurate and unlikely to be confused with other versions of the term in English.
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Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #32 on: September 03, 2014, 05:09:11 AM »
 

tomas

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The islanders used the word BIrdman exactly in that form, 1000 years ago and continue to use it today. Half bird, half man, birdman. There is no confusion there, it's an accepted transaction in all English history books. We do use the word in the original language - the language is RongoRongo, the glyphs from that Island and the name of the deck. The word is prominently featured on backs - it's a character with a "big butt."

The cult of BIrdman is well documented in English books since 1750, when the term first appeared in the first English book.

What you are suggesting is for people to stop using the names of hybrid creatures like Centaur, Faun or Siren, or using them in their original Greek language to avoid a confusion with a name of a car wash which just opened down the road. English is a West Germanic language, so if we follow that logic all English words would revert back to their original form.

 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2014, 11:54:31 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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The islanders used the word BIrdman exactly in that form, 1000 years ago and continue to use it today. Half bird, half man, birdman. There is no confusion there, it's an accepted transaction in all English history books. We do use the word in the original language - the language is RongoRongo, the glyphs from that Island and the name of the deck. The word is prominently featured on backs - it's a character with a "big butt."

The cult of BIrdman is well documented in English books since 1750, when the term first appeared in the first English book.

What you are suggesting is for people to stop using the names of hybrid creatures like Centaur, Faun or Siren, or using them in their original Greek language to avoid a confusion with a name of a car wash which just opened down the road. English is a West Germanic language, so if we follow that logic all English words would revert back to their original form.

Actually, I suggested using the term in the original language not solely to prevent confusion with some 20th-century cartoon character but also because it would seem culturally relevant, since you are using this culture as your inspiration.

FYI: Rongorongo is a glyph-written script of either the Rapa Nui language or a language as yet undiscovered and probably lost.  Calling Rongorongo a language as you have above is like saying you speak Alphabet and your best friend speaks Kanji while his brother speaks Braille.  (Sounds harder than speaking Klingon!)  The language uses the term "Rapa Nui" to refer to Easter Island itself, but I'll be using it here as the name of the language as well for expediency.

The script has never been successfully translated as there were few if any people left who could read it at the time of its discovery by a man named Eugène Eyraud in 1864, with the first Western-world written reference to it appearing in a report by him filed in 1866.  Further hampering the translation effort is the fact that so few examples of the writing exist with which to compare.  Many people have attempted to translate it, but in the end ended up with gibberish or phrases that make no sense, especially when compared with Rapa Nui language structure.  So speaking with any authority about calling any of the characters "bird-man" would be pretty off-base, unless you lived on Easter Island a few hundred years ago and were taught to use the script.  In Rapa Nui, the term "rongorongo" translates approximately as "to recite, to declaim, to chant out."  "Rongorongo" is not even the name used by the original writers of the glyphs - it's a modern name for the language.

"Accepted transactions" aside, of course...since there is no such term when it comes to history texts, at least not in English.  If you're talking about accepted translations, well, you hit that stumbling block again of Rongorongo never having been deciphered, making it unlikely that any of the glyphs are properly known as "bird-man".

As far as "bird-man" being the term for anything, it's the name of the winner of a traditional annual contest held on Easter Island - he becomes the "tangata manu", which translates into "bird-man".  There are some religious elements to it, but overall it sounds more like an Ironman competition.  The winner of the contest is considered "sacred" for only the first five months of the year in which he receives and carries the title.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangata_manu

Unless he or she was speaking Rapa Nui-glish, I'd think it unlikely that a native Rapa Nui speaker would use the word "bird-man" over the name "tangata manu".  This is especially true a thousand years ago, centuries before anyone on Easter Island was exposed to English, despite your claims to the contrary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decipherment_of_rongorongo
http://www.omniglot.com/writing/rongorongo.htm

"Hey, kids, for just a small fee, you can be writing Rongorongo in no time!  First hundred callers get a free batch of Sea Monkeys®!"
http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/deniart/rongo-rongo/a-regular/
« Last Edit: September 03, 2014, 11:57:55 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #34 on: September 03, 2014, 02:30:59 PM »
 

tomas

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Don,

In your series of lectures about subjects your clearly lack any knowledge, from budgets to design elements, the English language and the cult of the Birdman, you reached a point which makes you look extremely silly.

I would strongly suggest that you take a very deep breath and consider how offensive your language may be for people of Easter Island, when you suggest that they change names of their gods to satisfy your bizarre logic.

Putting aside your Wikipedia research which is based on completely false assumptions and includes a lot of wrong information, look at a bigger picture:
What you are saying is that you have a dog named Jesus. In order to avoid any confusion, you are asking Christians to change the names of their gods. I’m not sure what possessed you voice such ideas about the religion of Rapa Nui, but such attitude shows a complete lack of respect to other cultures.

You are incorrect about your IronMan references. I know that because I have an extensive knowledge about the history of Easter Island and I run IronMan triathlon last year, so I know quite a lot about the event.
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #35 on: September 03, 2014, 03:03:08 PM »
 

Magasaki

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probably best to resolve this with a rap battle
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Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #36 on: September 03, 2014, 03:04:00 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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probably best to resolve this with a rap battle

Last time I busted a rhyme I think I pulled something in my back...  :))
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Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #37 on: September 03, 2014, 03:34:04 PM »
 

publius

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All I know is that Birdman is a killer song by Our Lady Peace https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgfgLo5qjDs
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Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #38 on: September 03, 2014, 07:40:20 PM »
 

sprouts1115

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@publius - Enjoyed the video.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li9eSIGqNpE

All I know easter island was an small human experiment of what happens when you use up the resource trees.  Lets build huge stone heads.  Great idea; We have to cut down a lot of trees for that.  To ward the end when a lot of the trees where cut,  lets also put a huge red stone crown on top of the head.  Another great idea; We have to cut down a lot more trees for that.    For some reason the Civilization collapsed when all the trees were gone.  What went wrong, I'm sure they fished a lot. Evidence shows they resorted to cannibalism.  The people they found on the island didn't know what was written on the rocks cos the civilization devolved. 

We used to use wood for Shape(table) and Fuel

We now use oil for Shape(tupperware bowl) and Gas

I'm glade we are using renewables.  Can you imagine a day where we extract oil not for gas but, to make stuff from.  From what I hear oil makes a lot of shit...
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #39 on: September 03, 2014, 10:50:32 PM »
 

tomas

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sprouts1115,

The culture of Easter Island is often quoted as a striking example of what happens to advanced societies when they push the environment past the breaking point. I’m a huge proponent of renewables; the first campaign featured a t-shirt “go solar,” in RongoRongo and in English.

It is true that the trees were cut. The birds, which provided meat and fertilized the soil, disappeared. The soil eroded, making it very difficult to grow food. The fishing industry disappeared because of the lack of wood.

Popular figures MOAI KAVA KAVA show people at the point of starvation, typically associated with the period before all MOAIs were toppled.

Recent findings change our understanding of this secluded island. Although the use of trees in erecting and transporting huge MOAI statues was probably excessive, it was probably a Polynesian rat, not islanders, which may have been responsible for the destruction of forests.

The rat arrived with the settlers on the canoes and once they landed, with no enemies and lots of palm roots to eat, they exploded in numbers eating and destroying tree after tree. In laboratory setting, Polynesian rat populations can double every 47 days.

Ancient garbage heaps on Easter Island show that 60% of the bones come from introduced rats. It appears that islanders adopted to their eco collapse by substituting typical diet of fish and birds with rats and vegetables (mainly yam) which they grew in the most unusual rock gardens (the rocks provided minerals substituting animal fertilizers which disappeared with birds).
The civilization of Rapa Nui independently developed a system of glyphs, or proto-language RongoRongo. It is an extremely rare event in our entire human history; it happened only a few times. It suggests a highly evolved civilization committing large resources to advance of knowledge.

The largest unfinished MOAI, still attached to the rock at the quarry, weights 270 tons, or 4 Boeing 737s. Moving such colossal structures throughout the island required extreme level of engineering.

The islanders survived the collapse of their environment, but their civilization was never the same. What destroyed the island was the visit from the Europeans, introducing viruses like flu, followed by slave traders from Peru which raided the island on many occasions.

The descendants of this amazing civilization were gathered on a small patch of land; the balance of the island was taken over by a large sheep farm.

The people of Rapa Nui continue to fight for their land which was confiscated on so many occasions. They are extremely proud of their rich heritage, which includes the MOAI status, RongoRongo glyphs, Birdman and MakeMake religion.
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #40 on: September 04, 2014, 11:50:46 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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I’m a huge proponent of renewables; the first campaign featured a t-shirt “go solar,” in RongoRongo and in English.

Show me an English to Rongorongo dictionary that shows the glyphs which mean "go solar".  Books authored by you don't count.  Such a book would be a miracle of the ages, considering that the glyphs HAVEN'T BEEN TRANSLATED TO ANY LANGUAGE SUCCESSFULLY since they were discovered in the 1860s...

Kid, you've got a pretty good patter, but I've got fresh batteries in my BS detector and the needle's in the red.
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Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2014, 04:11:30 AM »
 

DarkDerp

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Round 2. Get it on!

Tomas,  your resume of past work seems a tad intense.  Is all of that work you have completed?
I like to call paper coatings a finish. It makes Don happy.
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2014, 10:11:26 AM »
 

tomas

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Don,

You have been consistently wrong about everything you commented about. What I didn’t suspect from the fellow New Yorker is a complete lack of humor; we tend to be quite funny in this town.

“Go solar” consists of two glyphs: a running man (Go) and the glyph of the Sun (solar). Put them together and you got “Go solar.” Since its RongoRongo, there is another message there: don’t cut all your trees (eco collapse on Easter Island), use Solar Energy. So that’s not only funny, it’s also educational :-)

Let me stop you before you make fool of yourself commenting about another shirt: “vegetarian.” It’s a fellow with a bunch of vegetables in RongoRongo glyphs. Do we know that for sure? Of course not, but that’s not the point. The last glyph is most likely a yam, the most common vegetable on the island a while back.
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #43 on: September 05, 2014, 10:26:42 AM »
 

tomas

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darkderp

Not only I completed all work listed in my resume, I completed thousands of projects which are not mentioned there.

On Crown Royal labels and packaging I had to hand design, pixel by pixel, the rope for each label and packaging size.
I think I spent a few days drawing those damn ropes, one strand at the time.
We spent a week selecting the script typeface for the copy.
In the end they were all rejected and I had to hand design a new typeface for use on Crown Royal labels.
This is one of the first tests of the label
 

BIRDMAN SURPRISE
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2014, 10:38:27 AM »
 

tomas

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This Saturday at noon EST we open add-on pledges for hand made wooden boxes for playing cards with a secret method of accessing the compartment inside:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/matifu/rongorongo-2/posts/975665

The boxes will be available through our RongoRongo Backers website only.
The links and details will be provided in Comments section of the campaign before noon on Saturday
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/matifu/rongorongo-2/comments
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2014, 02:21:51 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Don,

You have been consistently wrong about everything you commented about. What I didn’t suspect from the fellow New Yorker is a complete lack of humor; we tend to be quite funny in this town.

“Go solar” consists of two glyphs: a running man (Go) and the glyph of the Sun (solar). Put them together and you got “Go solar.” Since its RongoRongo, there is another message there: don’t cut all your trees (eco collapse on Easter Island), use Solar Energy. So that’s not only funny, it’s also educational :-)

Let me stop you before you make fool of yourself commenting about another shirt: “vegetarian.” It’s a fellow with a bunch of vegetables in RongoRongo glyphs. Do we know that for sure? Of course not, but that’s not the point. The last glyph is most likely a yam, the most common vegetable on the island a while back.

I have an awesome sense of humor.  But faking stuff isn't very funny, not to me at least.

"Do we know that for sure? Of course not, but that's not the point."  No one knows what ANY of the glyphs are for sure, and yes, that IS the point!  You admit as much in that sentence but continue offering us made-up glyph translations.  As far as yams being the most common vegetable "a while back" - that was hundreds of years ago!  Short of making a chemical analysis of the soil and some educated guesses, there's no way to know anything about the vegetation of the time.  It rots, it decomposes, it turns to soil, it becomes lost to time.

If you want to make up names and meanings for the glyphs to make a pretty project, I have no problem with that - I encourage it, even, especially if you're doing it for fun.  But trying to claim knowledge of things no one living today knows is a bit too much to swallow (even with some yam juice to wash it down)...  Be truthful with your backers - the expression "If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit" will only get you so far before someone starts to smell what you're offering.
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Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2014, 08:39:47 AM »
 

tomas

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Don,

You have been spreading misinformation about this campaign from the day one and you clearly have an agenda to see our campaign disappear.

We are not going anywhere, kid.

I don’t give Polynesian rat’s butt about your bizarre theories and your pompous and bigoted attitude toward other cultures.

The misunderstanding and faking you describe comes from your laziness, not from our campaign. You are the person who refuses to read more than one paragraph of copy before offering pretentious theories about subjects beyond your understanding. We don’t claim any knowledge about RongoRongo. In our second paragraph describing the subject, we clearly state that RongoRongo “continues to evade code breakers and most of it remains a mystery.”

“Any fool can criticize condemn and complain – and most fools do.”
--Benjamin Franklin
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #47 on: September 06, 2014, 08:41:07 AM »
 

tomas

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The Birdman Boxes with a secret opening combination for 1-deck will be available today in a limited quantities at:

http://matifu.com/rongorongo/bbox.html

starting at noon EST, Saturday, Sept. 6.
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #48 on: September 06, 2014, 09:40:36 AM »
 

Will W.

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Won't be backing this deck simply because I don't like certain peoples arrogant attitudes and I'm with Don on this.  I especially don't like the fact that he pulled the "BIGOT" card.     :o
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Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #49 on: September 06, 2014, 09:55:28 AM »
 

Nurul

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Won't be backing this deck simply because I don't like certain peoples arrogant attitudes and I'm with Don on this.  I especially don't like the fact that he pulled the "BIGOT" card.     :o

I agree. Backing a project is more than just backing a design, it's supporting the designer too. If the designer has a foul attitude, why should I back their project?! I'm not going to support someone who disrespects others.

Also, not a fan of the design.
SHOGUN Playing Cards coming soon to Kickstarter
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Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #50 on: September 06, 2014, 10:41:47 AM »
 

tomas

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Why is it OK for designers to be subjected to continuous personal attacks but it’s a “foul attitude” when we speak back?

The bigot card is well deserved. Suggesting that the 1,500 year civilization changes the names of their gods to “avoid confusion” with “Early Bird” pricing is the very definition of the word.
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #51 on: September 06, 2014, 10:57:13 AM »
 

Nurul

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Why is it OK for designers to be subjected to continuous personal attacks but it’s a “foul attitude” when we speak back?

The bigot card is well deserved. Suggesting that the 1,500 year civilization changes the names of their gods to “avoid confusion” with “Early Bird” pricing is the very definition of the word.

There's a certain manner of speaking to people, and yours is clearly quite rude, and you're too blind to see that. I'm not saying Don was in the wrong for certain things, but as the designer you're trying to promote your product. You come across as a very displeasing person, and as a result it's putting me off your product. Yes, you have a number of people backing your project, however, a majority of them are probably unaware of your attitude.
The way your character comes across, it brings out the worst in others. I'm not saying that you are the only one that does this, I've seen many others act the same. You bring a lot of negativity to your project.

Also, if you feel it's a personal attack, take it to PMs and resolve it there because it's not really doing any favours.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 11:01:37 AM by Nurul »
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Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #52 on: September 06, 2014, 11:30:44 AM »
 

HolyJJ

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I've just backed this project -- I'm in for half a brick.

I really like the faces on this cards. I don't usually like non-traditional faces at all, because they are as practical to me as transparent tippex when it comes to doing my favourite gambling demos or using them for games... however, I do like these a lot. I like items (not just playing cards) which are based on diverse and colourful cultures from around the world.

These cards (provided that it gets funded) will be one of those few that I can be happy just to look at and appreciate. The fact that it's going to be printed by EPCC means that it will be high quality, unlike the usual mediocre and shoddy quality cards that come out of Erlanger.

Regarding the tempers that have been flaring here... look, things like this are bound to happen. People hold culture, religion, and tradition close to their hearts, and they are more than entitled to... and so if anyone takes a pop at any of those things, expecting something of a Gandhian "turn the other cheek" approach just because the person is a designer is extremely naive. Being a designer doesn't mean that you are to be stoic about something you're extremely passionate about.

It's highly subjective. Some people will think that it's an overaction by Tomas, because they themselves are personally not attached to that which he is passionate about.

Similarly, I can make a sarcastic remark about somebody's mother, and then claim that they are over-reacting when they give a fairly angry response. I'd think nothing about the sarcastic comment I make, because I'm not an emotional guy... but to expect others to have exactly the same mindframe as me when it comes to insulting mothers, would be silly.

And no, I'm not anti-Don -- I'm a big fan of his knowledge about playing cards, the playing card industry, and his insights. Also, I have no reason to believe that he intentionally made any remarks that were taken as offensive -- Don just spoke (or rather typed), in his usual style.

The way I see it, Tomas is a talented designer who has a great deck, and Don is a respected guy on the forum and in the industry. This whole thing shouldn't mean that anyone is deemed to be evil/arrogant.

Back to the deck, I'm in brother. Hope the funding goal gets reached :D
With this signature I'm following the example set by Fes: There is only ONE letter L in my display name. "Holly" is a female name... and I'm a bearded guy who's into weightlifting. There's nothing feminine about me brother!
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #53 on: September 06, 2014, 11:37:40 AM »
 

tomas

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Nurul,

You are making very valid points and the tone of the comments should be changed.

I have the right to defend my work when I am faced with misinformation and personal attacks designed to discredit the project.

I also felt compelled to question bizarre theories about changing names of gods of an ancient civilization, the subject of my project.
I never attempted to be rude, but it’s clear that I failed and I apologize for that.
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #54 on: September 06, 2014, 11:45:43 AM »
 

Nurul

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Nurul,

You are making very valid points and the tone of the comments should be changed.

I have the right to defend my work when I am faced with misinformation and personal attacks designed to discredit the project.

I also felt compelled to question bizarre theories about changing names of gods of an ancient civilization, the subject of my project.
I never attempted to be rude, but it’s clear that I failed and I apologize for that.

Tomas, I understand your situation. Like HolyJJ pointed out, it's a passion and something close to you. Something that I didn't quite click on to before, so apologies for that.
You have every right to correct others if you feel that the knowledge and research is incorrect, but it should be done in a coherent manner.
I wish you the best in this project.
SHOGUN Playing Cards coming soon to Kickstarter
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Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #55 on: September 06, 2014, 11:48:15 AM »
 

tomas

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HolyJJ

I truly appreciate you backing this project.

Thank you for your comments, I think they go to the core of the issue much better than I expressed before.

I do feel passionate about the subject of Easter Island culture and RongoRongo glyphs and I felt utterly offended by theories presented here. My attempts to give the other party the “benefit of a doubt” failed miserably when the theories escalated beyond any sense and reason. That does not excuse my tone, but maybe explains the reasons for my reaction.
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #56 on: September 06, 2014, 03:33:31 PM »
 

Will W.

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Not so much the topic or even the content of the conversation.  For me it was mostly the little jabs. " silly, pompous, bigotry, fool, ignorant, lack of humor  etc. etc.  An apology might be in order on both sides....
"I collect these objects to learn from them. In some moment these things are going to teach me something. For me, this is like a library. These are my books."
- Jose Bedia
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #57 on: September 06, 2014, 03:51:22 PM »
 

tomas

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You are absolutely correct, this silliness went much too far.

My apologies to Don for all my jabs.

I hope we can move on to talk about the subject matter of the deck RongoRongo.
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #58 on: September 07, 2014, 12:45:17 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I will immediately agree about things going to far.

Perhaps I was a little sarcastic at points, so for that, I apologize.

There are a few points that have me very curious, however, which I would like to have clarified.

You mention that you were offended by my initial remarks and insist that you're passionate about Easter Island culture and Rongorongo glyphs.  Are you an Easter Islander?  Do you have some personal connection to these glyphs?  Your first name appears to be of Spanish origin, while your last name appears to be of Eastern European origin, which leads one to believe that you're anything but Polynesian, but guesses made about the origins of one's name have never conclusively proved anything before.

You insist that the culture referred to this person as "Birdman," using that exact word as it appears in English.  You also state that the culture has existed for 1,500 years.  I suggested using the original term in the native language - something which would be anything but bigoted or insensitive.  But from the statements you were making, you're implying that they've always used the term "Birdman" - are you trying to tell us that English has been the native language of Rapa Nui for the last 1,500 years?  Evidence would suggest otherwise.

If anything, I've been trying to express GREATER cultural sensitivity by suggesting the use of the native language for native terms.  So you'll have to forgive me if I've found your statements somewhat confusing.

As far as your statements about the glyphs - they're contradictory.  You suggest in one sentence that the glyphs are still a mystery and as of yet undeciphered.  But in several other sentences, you offer translations, names and sentences with the glyphs which imply that you know the true translations.  If you're opting to use the glyphs and attach your own meanings to them because you find them beautiful, meaningful, thought-provoking, etc., that's perfectly fine - but say so, clearly, and don't contradict your own statements.

Bear one thing in mind, please.  Whether or not I like your deck is completely immaterial to this discussion.  This is not a world where my tastes and opinions are the only ones that matter.  The membership here can - and frequently does - disagree with my opinions, and neither they nor I lose a moment of sleep over it.  I'm just another member here, regardless of whatever rank I hold, and my opinions are no more authoritative than anyone else's about any particular topic.  People are indeed welcome to disagree with my opinions - but disagreeing with facts is a completely different matter.

I was stating researched facts on the topics of Rapa Nui, its language and the glyphs, and you were arguing about them as if they were my opinions.  You were shouting them down as all being inaccurate - but when enough people educated on a subject are all saying pretty much the same thing about that subject, it's harder to give your statements as much weight against them, especially when to the best of our knowledge, you are not a scholar on the subject.  It's no different from the people who shout at the top of their lungs that the Moon landing, the Holocaust, the JFK assassination and the death of Elvis Presley never took place and were all faked, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.  It doesn't make such statements any more factual, regardless of how loudly they are expressed.  Squeaky wheels do get more grease, but it doesn't make the squeaking sound any less unpleasant.
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Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #59 on: September 07, 2014, 09:52:41 AM »
 

tomas

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It is not your sarcasm which was the problem for me. It was the fact that you appeared, from my point of view, to act as a provocateur. It is difficult to engage in any discussion with a person of such attitude; the facts become irrelevant, the science immaterial, and the only goal for such person is to create chaos.

You appeared, from my point of view, to have used methods common for such scenario:

(A)   Take an obvious fact and reverse it, in order to force the other side to spend a lot of time responding to it and reaching, it the best case scenario, the boring conclusion or, in the worst case scenario, the point of exhaustion. Some examples of such behavior are: questioning the existence of gravity or a birth certificate of President Obama.

(B)   Throw an avalanche of questions; totally ignore the answers, repeat. Add some insults for a good measure. A good example would be paparazzi screaming insults at a wife of an actor to take a photo of an actor in rage.

(C)   Use pseudo logic to appear to prove a point. One negative example proves the theory false, many positive examples prove nothing. The theory “all numbers are lower than 10” is easily disproved with the number 11. On the other hand, many examples prove nothing. The theory “all numbers are lower than 10” is not proved with 9 examples from 1 to 9. In your case you use the second method by providing examples of true statements and implying, against the rules of logic, that your theory is correct.

(D)   In a typical discussion, one person would say “the apple is red,” the other would say “the apple is green,” we would look at the photo and conclude that one party was correct and move on to determine the color of a banana. You appear to use a different method: ignoring the arguments of another side, reject the obvious conclusion and continue with other questions.

For all the reasons above I concluded that you appear, to me, not interested in discussing any facts and you only goal appears to be, from my point of view, to create chaos.

So, if you are truly interested in discussing Easter Island and my deck let’s take it one topic at a time, reach some conclusion without making the other person feel like it’s a rectal exam, and move on to the next question.

Topic:
Yam diet on Easter Island.


You commented:
“As far as yams being the most common vegetable "a while back" - that was hundreds of years ago!  Short of making a chemical analysis of the soil and some educated guesses, there's no way to know anything about the vegetation of the time.  It rots, it decomposes, it turns to soil, it becomes lost to time.”

We don’t examine thousand-year old yams; they are, indeed, lost to time. This is an example of (C) – stating the obvious true statement (yams lost to time) and implying, against the rules of logic, that your entire theory is correct. This is also an example of (A).

We have, indeed, precise scientific methods of determining diets of civilizations not only 1,500 years old, but our 10,000 year old ancestors. Large volumes of books were written about the subject of chemistry and hominid fossils.

The protein diet is determined by measuring heavy and light nitrogen isotopes in fossilized bones; the tooth enamel provides us with the measurement of two forms of carbon, 13^C and 12^C, which are markers for specific food types.

So yes, we are absolutely scientifically certain that the population of Easter Island had a diet based mostly on fish before the eco-collapse, and the diet was radically changed to mostly Polynesian rats and yams after the trees and the finishing industry disappeared.

There were several well funded scientific expeditions to Easter Island devoted to this subject. The British Museum, which houses the most famous MOAI in the West, Hoa Hakananai’a, is extremely active in the scientific research of the ancient Easter Island civilization, including their diet.

The diets of ancient civilizations can be precisely determined through the measurements of isotopes and the carbon composition of teeth. When making such measurements using fossilized bones/teeth of children who are still growing, the markers are extremely well defined.

So, when trying to determine the diet of a fossil of a single tooth from millions of years ago, we face real challenges. In our example we have a massive amount of fossils of children and adults on Easter Island available to study and the scientists concluded the exact composition of their diet.

The story of yam does not end there. The civilization of Easter Island, post eco-collapse, had to deal with the lack of fertilizers and they invented an unusual method of farming using “rock gardens.” Huge areas of land were covered with rocks which provided the nutrition for eroded soil. Detailed analysis of these rocks shows that the gardens were used almost exclusively for yam.
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #60 on: September 07, 2014, 12:23:45 PM »
 

sprouts1115

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I have to say this is getting to be a most interesting thread....

@Eoghann can I steal your pic.  Are you all done?  Or is there more to say?

@tomas - I think the butt and a foot is going to show.  You proved it with this pic. I would think if you're a bird man with 4 feet I would want to be on the ground, but your the artist and interoperation is subject to speculation.   
« Last Edit: September 07, 2014, 08:57:12 PM by sprouts1115 »
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #61 on: September 07, 2014, 03:50:37 PM »
 

tomas

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@sprouts1115

Your laser focus on one part of the body should be applauded; you are clearly an expert in the field of big butts. You are absolutely correct; in this case the butts will be visible.

You may want to step back and look at the entire body of the birdman: it’s a man with a head of a bird, so the number of legs is 2, not 4.
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #62 on: September 07, 2014, 07:06:56 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Tomas, if you believe my purpose here is to act as an agent provocateur, you really don't know me very well.

You've successfully discussed one point - the yam diet.  Probably the least important of the questions raised.

Your silence on the other questions speaks volumes.

Hopefully, I didn't insert the endoscopic probe too deeply - wouldn't want any tissue damage...  :))

(And you thought I had no sense of humor!)
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Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #63 on: September 07, 2014, 08:47:58 PM »
 

tomas

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Don,

I don’t know anything about you.
You’ve proven to have a sense of humor, so that’s a good start.

We then agreed that yam was consumed on Easter Island. For anyone interested, the glyph of yam is featured on Queen of Hearts. Do we know that for a fact? Nope, like everything else with RongoRongo, it’s an educated guess, but there is a strong consensus about this glyph, so the Queen of Hearts is most likely surrounded by yams.

My silence on other questions does not speak volumes; we just need to take them one at the time.
That was an example of sarcasm which you promised to avoid.

Going down the list:

Am I an Easter Islander?
No, I am not.

Do I have a connection to glyphs?
Well, I do as a typographer who worked with type for a big part of my life, and as an author of this project. I don’t have a “blood” connection to the island. If your question is about my initial interest in Easter Island then I do have a connection, of sort, to that civilization. My co-pilot’s family came from this Island, and we spent a lot of time talking about the place high above the clouds. His favorite joke was “if my ancestors could find Rapa Nui, I can definitely find the damn airport.” He was indeed a brilliant navigator.

My first name is not Spanish. It’s not French either.

Yes, I am of Easter European origin, living for 30+ years in New York.

No, I am not Polynesian.

The Birdman subject cannot be answered in one line; it requires a long yam-like essay, so maybe that one is a good topic for another day.

The glyphs also require a long yam-like essay to answer your question, so maybe that could be our next topic after Birdman. The short answer is no, those are not my interpretations; I don’t have any interpretations of my own of RongoRongo. They come from work of several people who committed their entire lives to the project of researching RongoRongo. I did study their work extensively.

“I was stating researched facts on the topics of Rapa Nui…” nope, you did not. You presented a result of your 10-minute google binge without actually understanding the subject matter and offering far reaching opinions.

I am not shouting down the links you provided; I am shouting down your assumptions based on a very limited amount of your knowledge in these matters. For the life of me, I don’t understand why you are so compelled to offer such opinions, but you do.

For example, you imply that the “birdman is the name of the winner of the contest… there are some religious elements to it, but overall it sound more like an Ironman competition.” In IronMan competitions the contestants swim, run and bike for an extended period of time. I know quite a lot about the subject because I participated in IronMan event last year after training for months.
On Rapa Nui, the contestants of “IronMan-like competition” never became Birdman. The contestants were young kids called Hopu, which were appointed by Chiefs. So Hopu scaled sheer cliffs and swam with the sharks, and often died in the process. When they won, it was not them, but the Chiefs who appointed them who become Birdman.

Your Holocaust example crosses all lines of decency. Especially when it is directed to a person who’s entire family went through the horrors of concentration camps. My grandmother is a candidate to become a Christian Saint for her activities at Auschwitz. The entry to the Auschwitz Museum is located on a street bearing her name.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Midwife+at+Auschwitz%3A+the+story+of+Stanislawa+Leszczynska.-a0130564530


 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #64 on: September 07, 2014, 09:02:29 PM »
 

AndreCamp

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I absolutely love the "circle effect" back. I'll think about a donation...
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #65 on: September 07, 2014, 09:14:37 PM »
 

tomas

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thanks @andrecamp, that one took a lot of time to figure out.

The fan creates a symbol of Sun God, a subject of another topic if anyone cares to discuss it.

The short version is that the civilization of Rapa Nui was extremely advanced in their knowledge of navigation and astronomy, and the Sun was an important element of their culture. Finding a tiny island in the middle of Pacific was an amazing feat of navigation.

The name of the island, in their most ancient form, was “the Navel of the World.”
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #66 on: September 08, 2014, 04:36:12 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Your Holocaust example crosses all lines of decency. Especially when it is directed to a person who’s entire family went through the horrors of concentration camps. My grandmother is a candidate to become a Christian Saint for her activities at Auschwitz. The entry to the Auschwitz Museum is located on a street bearing her name.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Midwife+at+Auschwitz%3A+the+story+of+Stanislawa+Leszczynska.-a0130564530

I have family who were displaced by the war when German troops destroyed their villages in the Soviet Union - they were fortunate enough to have evaded capture, which for Jews like them would have likely been a death sentence.  (I myself am not Jewish, but my wife, her family and my father's father's father are.)  I wasn't so much pointing out the Holocaust as I was the people who deny established facts despite overwhelming evidence as evidenced by the other examples I presented - the lunar landings, the Kennedy assassination, the death of Elvis.  Many people, for a variety of reasons not based in fact, deny these historical events ever took place.  If the comparison offended you, I sincerely apologize.

I for one do not deny the tragic, horrific events the Third Reich inflicted on the world and am grateful to live in a time that's at least somewhat more stable.  From the article you linked to in your post, your grandmother was a brave, heroic yet unassuming person doing the impossible under the worst conditions imaginable.  I am humbled to know people like her existed in this world and fervently hope they still do.  You must be exceptionally proud of her - I know I would be, in your shoes.

I think, after reading your most recent post, that while we aren't on the exact same page, we do at least appear to be on the same chapter.  For me, it's close enough that as far as the details, we agree on certain facts, not on others, and that's all there is to it.  I apologize for having steered this topic into directions best left untaken.

Best of luck to you and may your project turn out successful.  You're clearly passionate enough about it to give it your best efforts.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2014, 04:37:45 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #67 on: September 08, 2014, 07:49:36 AM »
 

tomas

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We are extremely proud of her. In your last post you made an assumption which is factually incorrect.

As to beiing on the same chapter about the deck, I don't think we are in the same gallaxy. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

From the designer's point of view the closest we ever came to discuss the design of the deck were comments about Birdman's butt. Those were priceless, so thanks.
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #68 on: September 15, 2014, 04:28:25 AM »
 

Magasaki

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It seems there are now 2 more 'limited' tuck box designs available on this project. A Limited, and a 'Special Reserve' that look identical to each other except the colour of the label. 5 decks is milking this a bit to much to me so due to this I think I will be cancelling my current pledge. I do like to collect all versions of a deck but they need to offer a little more than being limited just for the sake of it. I find this a little insulting to backers.
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Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #69 on: September 15, 2014, 11:36:29 AM »
 

publius

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My reputation may take a hit for taking an unpopular stance on this debate, as is evident by Tomas' rating - but I can't just let it pass. Tomas opened the topic excited about his new design, based around a culture that he is extremely interested and knowledgable about, and was subjected to the third degree for several perceived microscopic discrepancies. I really don't think that was fair honestly. I think Don is an extremely intelligent guy, and I think Tomas is very knowledgable about this particular culture I really know nothing about. He's no more or less sensitive than anyone else would be about their politics, religion, culture, ethnics, etc. if they perceived to be insulted about them. I re-read the entire thread, and things really went south when Don replied "Kid, you've got a pretty good patter, but I've got fresh batteries in my BS detector and the needle's in the red."

I think Don, given his legendary status on this forum, and in card collecting in general, enjoys a certain level of insulation and protection from criticism or debate. Tomas, a fairly new member, is going to immediately be targeted for challenging Don in any way, even if Don instigates the friction - and I'm not saying he did. This is just an observation. I do think Tomas has been unfairly criticized, and his reputation has taken a disproportionate hit for merely defending a position really important to him, and I don't really see evidence of him being truly out of line. I know Don is popular, and I think that tips the scales. If the exact same debate were waged word for word on this forum, but the players were myself and Tomas instead of Don and Tomas, the outcome would be vastly different, and the support from the rest of the community for one side or the other would probably be more equitably distributed.

And contrary to conventional wisdom, reputation IS important within this community. Although it has no functional use other than with a reputation of 1 someone can post in the STISO forum; reputation is the first look community members get at an unknown or new member. Someone with a reputation deep in the negative is immediately branded as a troublemaker or some other such label. Don's reputation is through the roof, and thus he is correctly viewed as a board legend.

Although it may appear otherwise, I'm really not taking "sides" as it were. I think everyone needs to just drop it and move on. But I call it as I see it, and I do think Tomas has been treated disproportionately. And I have grown to really enjoy and respect Don on these forums. His insight and expertise has been priceless to a new collector like myself. I look forward to his every response on these forums, as I always come away learning something new.

My position on this matter may be an unpopular one, and if you feel the need to ding my reputation for saying so, feel free. I needed to say it, and now that I have, I'm over it. Thank you for reading this.
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Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #70 on: September 16, 2014, 02:28:15 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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There are a few simple, general points I want to make clear about the forum as a whole.  I do apologize to Tomas for having to present them in the middle of the topic about his deck.

Dissenting opinions are WELCOME here.  If everyone here agreed with me, this board would grow stale and moldy tout de suite.  People with differing opinions and the willingness to discuss them openly and without rancor are part and parcel of a thriving discussion.

Posters should NOT get their reputation dinged simply because they disagree with someone.  If anything, they should get their rep bumped higher, for creating a more stimulating conversation!  Now if someone's acting like a jerk, leaving spam, posting without actually contributing to the conversation - those would be reasons for lowering the rep of a poster, because as the link states, they're the essence of a "bad poster".  Tomas was NOT a bad poster, though I did have a hard time understanding a few of the things he said, but that's as common as dirt around here because many people here have not been speaking and writing English since their infancy.  So even that's not a reason to lower a reputation - it's a reason to ask for clarification, instead.

Publius, I'm glad that you feel as you do about me and my posts, but I'm still just a mortal human being.  I'm capable of magnificent blunders, just like the rest of us, though naturally I try to avoid them.  I'm always awed by how my reputation score has increased since I started posting here, but at the same time I do my level-headed best to remember that my score plus four quarters will still add up to only a dollar, nothing more.

TL;DR - a person who's sole "crime" is disagreeing with you is NOT a bad poster.
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Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #71 on: September 16, 2014, 09:09:34 AM »
 

publius

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Agreed!
Graphic Designer; Playing Card Addict; soon to mix the two...
 

RongoRongo 3 Playing Cards USPCC Bicycle Moai by Matifu (KS)
« Reply #72 on: October 09, 2014, 02:10:17 AM »
 

Rob Wright

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......and another try!  Good luck with the re-launch.
RongoRongo 3 Playing Cards USPCC Bicycle Moai



I know JR originally was going to do a gilded version of the Army deck, but has since said probably will not do. It sounded like the whole process was going to be a pain in the ass. My understanding is that USPCC min run for gilding is 10k or 15k. Tomas, are you going to have the decks gilded by USPCC, or someone else?

Quote
DECKS AVAILABLE NOW

1. Bicycle RongoRongo GOLD

DECKS LOCKED

The following decks will be unlocked when we reach certain funding levels:
•Bicycle RongoRongo BLACK
•Bicycle RongoRongo GILDED
•MOAI RongoRongo GOLD
•MOAI RongoRongo BLACK
•MOAI RongoRongo GILDED


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Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #73 on: October 09, 2014, 01:13:44 PM »
 

Rose

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I am not here for one day and look what happens...WTF is going on?  :o
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #74 on: October 09, 2014, 09:23:22 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Wow, six decks.  No, wait - it's NOT six decks, it's just THREE, each appearing in TWO different boxes.

I hate when people do that.

Well, most of the decks are stretch goals, anyway - we'll see what happens.  Honestly, I hope he succeeds - I hope most decks succeed.  It's not a horrible-looking deck, and trust me, I've seen FAR worse.
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Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #75 on: October 16, 2014, 02:35:13 PM »
 

Collector

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Interesting design and its cultural background.


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Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #76 on: November 23, 2014, 05:52:08 PM »
 

sprouts1115

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Interesting development:   He was funded since Nov 7th, then all of a sudden he lost $1000 in 2 days.  Furthermore, ppl were stating to jump ship.  I though that's odd.  If I like a deck enough to help out it only helps my history on Kickstarter if it fails.  It didn't hurt me; It only helps.  Your history is your trust in taste.  I would feel more comfortable pledging for a Kickstarter that has backed a couple of projects.  And of course if they were connected to Facebook. 

Anyways Eddie from Gamblers Warehouse saved the project from slipping into the abyss. 

My respect for Gamblers Warehouse went up.  Who do give a +1 on their reputation on this forum.   :karrit:
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #77 on: November 23, 2014, 05:57:11 PM »
 

sprouts1115

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« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 06:01:13 PM by sprouts1115 »
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #78 on: November 24, 2014, 01:08:57 AM »
 

Fess

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I think it's great this campaign funded. While it's not for me, I wanted to like the decks I just don't, it happens. Tomas is clearly very passionate about the decks and I think that's a wonderful thing to have made a reality.
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Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #79 on: November 24, 2014, 01:32:05 AM »
 

Rose

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I think it's great this campaign funded. While it's not for me, I wanted to like the decks I just don't, it happens. Tomas is clearly very passionate about the decks and I think that's a wonderful thing to have made a reality.
I applaud Tomas for his persistence, however if I had a deck and the KS failed I would change/improve something before thinking about a relaunch. It confused/frustrated me that the project went up so many times without a single obvious change been made. I am pretty sure someones definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Miraculously this has resulted in a different outcome. Happy for Tomas that his deck has finally got funding.

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
-Albert Einstein
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 01:37:04 AM by Rose »
 

Re: RongoRongo (KS)
« Reply #80 on: November 24, 2014, 02:35:32 PM »
 

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I think it's great this campaign funded...

I agree with this.


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