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The Olympians

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The Olympians
« on: March 02, 2014, 01:42:15 PM »
 

adelsan

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Hello people,
I'm new in this forum, I made a design for a playing card that revolves around the idea of the greek gods depicted in pottery.

Let me know what you think.

Cheers,
Adel.
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Re: The Olympians
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2014, 03:36:38 PM »
 

Shebhnt

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Nice design, unless these are on sale though or about to go to kickstarted I'm pretty sure you should post this first in the design section.

You should post in the introduce yourself section of the site also and welcome to the site.
 

Re: The Olympians
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2014, 06:02:24 PM »
 

adelsan

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I'm working on it for a limited run.
i still don't know much of this forum (sorry) I'll go introduce my self as you proposed.

Thanks!
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Re: The Olympians
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2014, 06:04:22 PM »
 

adelsan

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Hello All,
I'm new in this forum, I would like to share with you a new deck that i just started making.

If you have any suggestions please let me know.

Color
 

Re: The Olympians
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2014, 06:07:27 PM »
 

Aptombstone

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I certainly like the style so far. Can't wait to see a back design or a queen.
 

Re: The Olympians
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2014, 06:20:28 PM »
 

adelsan

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Queen soon,
Back design will propably take me about 1-2 weeks...
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Re: The Olympians
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2014, 07:51:15 PM »
 

Shebhnt

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No problem, I'm sure a moderator can move this topic.  I really do like the design, I would love to see more!
 

Re: The Olympians
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2014, 07:52:11 PM »
 

Shebhnt

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I like the way you did the pip for clubs.  What will the other suits look like?
 

Re: The Olympians
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2014, 08:03:51 PM »
 

popetown

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Definitely looks cool. I'm also a forum noob so I have no input on the posting placement. I just want to follow the progress.
 

Re: The Olympians
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2014, 09:31:57 PM »
 

PurpleIce

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Hello people,
I'm new in this forum, I made a design for a playing card that revolves around the idea of the greek gods depicted in pottery.

Let me know what you think.

Cheers,
Adel.

Hi, no worries about the posting. I'm sure the moderators will inform you if your post needs to be elsewhere. People (incl moderators) are quite friendly around here, at times may go crazy on their opinions, but all for the love of cards.

I think if you want some opinions you should probably include more images and description. Images of tuck box, back design or any custom cards you have designed. The border seems pretty thick to my (personal) liking. Is there a reason for this?
 

Re: The Olympians
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2014, 01:21:12 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I merged it all into one topic on the Design/Dev board.  Once it's in the pipe to be printed or a KS project is launched, then we can start a new topic in the Plethora.

I like the art so far.  Two things caught my eye that you may want to reconsider.

1) Those clubs look too much like spades.  You need the suits, particularly the ones of the same color, to be visually different and immediately recognizable.

2) Push your indices right up there in the corner instead of having them hang so low.  As presently designed, it would force a player to spread his or her hand wider in order to read all the cards, which opens one up to the risk of a competitor catching a glance at your hand.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2014, 01:24:42 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: The Olympians
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2014, 04:10:27 AM »
 

adelsan

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I think if you want some opinions you should probably include more images and description. Images of tuck box, back design or any custom cards you have designed. The border seems pretty thick to my (personal) liking. Is there a reason for this?

I haven't got eny other designes yet, But I'll present them here when they're ready.

As for the border, I think i haven't give it a well thought. I'll take your note in the future designes.

Thanks!
« Last Edit: March 03, 2014, 04:10:55 AM by adelsan »
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Re: The Olympians
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2014, 04:14:17 AM »
 

adelsan

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1) Those clubs look too much like spades.  You need the suits, particularly the ones of the same color, to be visually different and immediately recognizable.
2) Push your indices right up there in the corner instead of having them hang so low.  As presently designed, it would force a player to spread his or her hand wider in order to read all the cards, which opens one up to the risk of a competitor catching a glance at your hand.

1) This is King o "spades" and not king of "clubs". So, Obviusly i need to redesign them till it make sense.
2) Gotcha!

Are you ok with the selection of "K" font and size? I made it a bit smaller and less elaborate.
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Re: The Olympians
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2014, 06:29:58 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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1) Those clubs look too much like spades.  You need the suits, particularly the ones of the same color, to be visually different and immediately recognizable.
2) Push your indices right up there in the corner instead of having them hang so low.  As presently designed, it would force a player to spread his or her hand wider in order to read all the cards, which opens one up to the risk of a competitor catching a glance at your hand.

1) This is King o "spades" and not king of "clubs". So, Obviusly i need to redesign them till it make sense.
2) Gotcha!

Are you ok with the selection of "K" font and size? I made it a bit smaller and less elaborate.

Look at the indices in a standard pack of playing cards, like an off-the-shelf pack of Bees from the drugstore.  There's a few interesting items of note.

a) the value is roughly twice the height as the value suit and both are of the same width

b) the width of the value is almost exactly the same for any of the values you look at - even a two-digit number like ten takes up the same width because the "1" is just a stick and the "0" is made very narrow and oval - no serif marks anywhere, whereas the letters and some numbers have them.

In many card games, it's the value that's of primary importance, with the suit taking second place.  Look at a game like poker - which is the most important in the hands one can play in that game?

Ace high - value
one pair - value
two pair - value
three-of-a-kind - value
straight - value
flush - suit
full house - value
four-of-a-kind - value
straight (and royal) flush - value and suit

In other games, such as rummy, they may be of equal importance, but in few games does the suit matter more than the value.

Now, does your deck need to conform to such standards?  Not really, no.  It's a breakable rule, but if you're going to break it, have a good reason for why.  If it's the size and shape that it is just because you didn't know what else to do with it, that's not a great reason.  A great reason might be like what Randy Butterfield did with his Ornate decks - that's a deck that's truly ornate, as the name states, and the indices are no less so than the rest of the deck, but in that case, it fits the theme.  In your case, there's no great reason at all for breaking the rule.  Now, perhaps if you were using a typeface that had an "ancient Greek" look to it, that would be a reason, and a good one.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 12:29:15 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: The Olympians
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2014, 01:32:28 PM »
 

adelsan

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Now, does your deck need to conform to such standards?  Not really, no.  It's a breakable rule, but if you're going to break it, have a good reason for why.  If it's the size and shape that it is just because you didn't know what else to do with it, that's not a great reason.  A great reason might be like what Randy Butterfield did with his Ornate decks - that's a deck that's truly ornate, as the name states, and the indices are no less so than the rest of the deck, but in that case, it fits the theme.  In your case, there's no great reason at all for breaking the rule.  Now, perhaps if you were using a typeface that had an "ancient Greek" look to it, that would be a reason, and a good one.

In my research i found that the greeks didn't use big fonts in the pottery and they just needed to write down the names in much smaller display. They used pictures more than letters (in contrary to the egyptians). Also I didn't want to pickup a shitty "ancient like" greek font. This is why i came across a clean and effective san serif font 'cause greeks didn't use serif anyways. The Font is almost the same size as the pips, and if i pushed them up as you suggested the result will be less opening in a hand with cards.

I leave you with an ancient pottery to see how they used the fonts and with zeus grabbing the "thunder" on his hands.  ;)

Thank you so much for your input! I do realize the value of this forum!

I'll post new stuff whenever i have them ready!

Cheers
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Re: The Olympians
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2014, 01:35:42 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Glad to hear you like the place.

I wasn't implying the need for a "faux Greek" typeface - remember, you only need to represent the ten digits, A, J, Q and K.  Are there authentic Greek typefaces that would do?  It's not a major sticking point, either way - a sans serif font such as what you're using is fine - I'm just pointing out ways to improve the deck's functionality.  The typeface you're using now can be made taller without being made wider, as well.
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Re: The Olympians
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2014, 06:06:51 AM »
 

adelsan

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Glad to hear you like the place.

I wasn't implying the need for a "faux Greek" typeface - remember, you only need to represent the ten digits, A, J, Q and K.  Are there authentic Greek typefaces that would do?  It's not a major sticking point, either way - a sans serif font such as what you're using is fine - I'm just pointing out ways to improve the deck's functionality.  The typeface you're using now can be made taller without being made wider, as well.

Thanks for the effort and feedback friend. I'll keep your input because it's a well thought one!
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Re: The Olympians
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2014, 09:39:49 PM »
 

Jamm Pakd Cards

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I merged it all into one topic on the Design/Dev board.  Once it's in the pipe to be printed or a KS project is launched, then we can start a new topic in the Plethora.

I like the art so far.  Two things caught my eye that you may want to reconsider.

1) Those clubs look too much like spades.  You need the suits, particularly the ones of the same color, to be visually different and immediately recognizable.

2) Push your indices right up there in the corner instead of having them hang so low.  As presently designed, it would force a player to spread his or her hand wider in order to read all the cards, which opens one up to the risk of a competitor catching a glance at your hand.

I agree with Don on the indices right up in the corner.  I play poker and all poker player look in the corner of the card to see what they have.  Poker player wont like to have to bend the cards differently than what they are accustomed to. 
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 09:40:46 PM by Jamm Pakd Cards »
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Re: The Olympians
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2014, 09:42:07 PM »
 

Jamm Pakd Cards

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I do like the colors and the style you are doing.
Justin
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Re: The Olympians
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2014, 12:30:21 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Adelsan - I noticed a typo in my post which I edited.  Please look it over and see if it makes better sense.

http://www.playingcardforum.com/index.php?topic=6206.msg93601#msg93601
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Re: The Olympians
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2014, 12:07:53 PM »
 

adelsan

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Hello again,
I fixed the pips and made some other designs.
Let me know what you think.

Cheers!
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Re: The Olympians
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2014, 01:22:35 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Hello again,
I fixed the pips and made some other designs.
Let me know what you think.

Cheers!

The art is fine.  I would make the image a bit larger to better fill out the card.

Your spade still looks confusingly like a club because the lines leading to the tip of the point aren't straight.  Pips have to be quickly and easily recognized as their respective suit.  The club looks fine.

Think of it like this:
Spade - a single spear-like point
Heart - two curves, joined
Clubs - three lobes of a tree
Diamonds - four points of the gem

These are the elements of a pip that I feel give the pip its essence - and notice there's a numerical progression to it.  Your club nails this perfectly, but your spade isn't a spear-like point.  What works in most cases for a good spade is to take the "trunk" of the club and attached it to an inverted heart, coloring the whole thing in your "black" color, whichever color you happen to choose for that.

Another perspective based more on shapes than numbers:
Diamond - a square on its point
Heart - take the diamond, make the top two sides into lines that each bisect a circle of that diameter.
Spade - turn the heart 180 degrees, add the stem
Club - take the spade, remove the square and replace it with a circle the same size as the other two.

I fully understand the desire to create a custom pip, and I've seen some great ones.  If you have a particular, specific idea behind the choices and arrangements of shapes for your pips, so be it - follow that idea through and make it consistent between the four different suit shapes you invent.  If you're making them different just because you want to make a different kind of pip without a specific intent besides that, you're not making a good design choice.

Make a pip too different, it doesn't look so much like a familiar suit any longer.  There are special game decks out there that employ cards with pips that are different from the standard - but if you walked into a local big-box retailer, pharmacy or newsstand, would you be more likely to find that special, custom deck or one that employs standard pips?  People have been using these pips since before the colonization of America!  The French created them, the printers at Rouen tweaked the design and made them slightly different from Parisian suits (but still close enough for easy recognition) and the English copied them off the imported Rouen decks to create the Anglo-American standard we know and use today.  Just as there are countless different typefaces for the Roman alphabet and Arabic numbers used in English, an "a" is still an "a" and a "b" is still a "b", and so on down the line - this should hold true for suit symbols as well when created as pips on a card.  Make an "a" different enough, it's really not an "a" any longer - it's something the majority of the people reading it no longer recognize, and thus loses its meaning.  At that point, it's more of a secret code that only the designer of the typeface knows, a sure indicator that it won't receive wide acceptance.

Please forgive my long-windedness on this.  It's not meant as sharp criticism, just encouragement.  It actually helped me work out a few concepts on the elements and function of pips/suits.  Long story short, be different if you insist, but do so for a specific reason, not simply from a general desire to be different.  Make that reason clearly understood to the potential end user of your cards, so they have a "eureka" moment and suddenly know why you made the choice you made.  If that can't be done, go back to the drawing board and reconsider the shapes of the pips.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 01:23:59 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: The Olympians
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2014, 07:43:55 AM »
 

adelsan

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I'll tweak the spades pip and come up with a different version and I'll let you have a look at it.
This kind of feedback is useful, i don't feel criticised in any way!
Thanks a lot!  8)
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Re: The Olympians
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2014, 07:42:11 PM »
 

sastian

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great stuff man! i like your use of space!
 

Re: The Olympians
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2014, 02:38:37 PM »
 

Shebhnt

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Agree that the spade still looked like a club at first glance but the artwork for each of the court cards is awesome!  I love the style.