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AceGambit · « **on:** January 21, 2012, 11:22:11 AM »

This isn't NEARLY complete, but as I said I would, I've began development on a deck which will have two-way faces. Interestingly enough, it seems everyone always starts with the backs. I haven't actually completely decided on the backs yet, the faces aren't even close to what I would call perfect yet either, but here's a preview of how I'm going about it. Thoughts or ideas?

AceGambit · « **Reply #1 on:** January 21, 2012, 01:26:36 PM »

So, very quickly, I took the time to put together a sort of direction I was thinking about for the backs, but it's kind of not what I wanted. But here's a rough notion of the backs.

Kanped · « **Reply #2 on:** January 21, 2012, 01:52:34 PM »

It's a good concept for sure but at the minute is a bit plain. Personally, I'd like to see it a bit more 'airy' and busy, with varying layers of transparency. I kinda like the white background, though because it stops the deck having such a defined border (which I like). The faces design is clever but again, I think there's more you could do with it. Do the pips have to be the suits?

AceGambit · « **Reply #3 on:** January 21, 2012, 02:22:29 PM »

It's not a bit plain, it's extremely plain... If someone were to produce this deck right now, I would think they had no idea what they were doing. But yeah, there's no reason the pips need to be the suit, they can be just plain circles if it'll look better, but then color and index would be the only way to tell what card it was. I feel like a deck needs to be a little more obvious than that.

Kanped · « **Reply #4 on:** January 21, 2012, 02:44:00 PM »

Could make it a 4 colour deck? Clubs are green and diamonds are blue. not exactly standard but not uncommon either.

dmbaggs · « **Reply #5 on:** January 21, 2012, 03:13:58 PM »

Those look really good for a rough draft type of design. It was a little weird to see at first but I kind of like how the pips are placed out. I look forward to seeing more of your designs!

AceGambit · « **Reply #6 on:** January 21, 2012, 03:32:07 PM »

Here's the 3 and 7 redone, I think i like them a bit more this way. Better? Worse?

(also i made the images smaller cause the giant ones were obnoxious.)

dmbaggs · « **Reply #7 on:** January 21, 2012, 03:36:05 PM »

I like the first ones a little more. The hearts on the new one look like clubs and the spades look like boxes. The first version looked a little better in my opinion.

Evan · « **Reply #8 on:** January 21, 2012, 04:24:40 PM »

I liked the first ones better too.
Also, I feel kinda stupid asking this.... but why are there a bunch of pips?

AceGambit · « **Reply #9 on:** January 21, 2012, 04:49:17 PM »

The 'clustered pip' design, a name which I made up about 10 seconds ago allows the faces of cards like 3H and 7S to be 100% two-way designs.

moonexe · « **Reply #10 on:** January 21, 2012, 04:53:15 PM »

Quote from: MagicAddictz on January 21, 2012, 04:24:40 PM

Also, I feel kinda stupid asking this.... but why are there a bunch of pips?

His idea is to have two-way faces. In case you haven't noticed, 3 out of 4 standard pips are not diagonally symmetric.

I don't like the fact that the hearts look like clubs - Could be a little confusing for people not familiar with the deck.

Besides that, it's probably something I would buy.

xela · « **Reply #11 on:** January 21, 2012, 05:31:53 PM »

The original SymmetryPip concept was actually kind of like the second one, which I honestly prefer far more to the first one. I'd buy the second concept, but I would laugh at the first one.

I ended up scrapping the idea because of how insane the 9/10's get, and the Ace of Spades presents a bit of a problem too.

Kanped · « **Reply #12 on:** January 21, 2012, 08:45:15 PM »

I also like the second better, especially the hearts. You'd get used to it really quickly IMO. The spades do look very boxy, though.

SeanWhelan · « **Reply #13 on:** January 21, 2012, 11:40:16 PM »

I saw this thread pop up and love the designs that were posted. However, yes it does sound like a really cool idea but is no way practical. I believe even the bicycle company knew this getting into the business back in the 1800's. This is why only the court cards and back designs are 2 ways.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #14 on:** January 22, 2012, 02:50:38 AM »

Try having the second design changed so the tops of the pips meet at the clusters instead of the bottoms. It may reduce the visual confusion some are having. Perhaps enclose each cluster in a simple shape as well, to make it clear that the cluster's a single "pip" instead of a 28 of hearts... A circle might look nice.

In fact, try a different shape for each suit cluster, giving better visual differentiation. I was using the "Patriotic" deck series - each deck represents either the Coast Guard or a branch of the military, and the center pips for all the suits are military rank symbols - for example, the Navy deck as two "apprentice seaman" ranks for the deuces, three "seaman" ranks for the treys, etc., with the highest ranks (admiral, different number of stars on each) on the aces, and the high-level command ranks like captain, commander, etc. appearing once on the "face cards". The deck was difficult to use because of the overall lack of visual differentiation, though the index pips were traditional suits. A diamond shape for diamonds clusters, a square for clubs clusters, a circle for hearts, etc. - something along those lines.

AceGambit · « **Reply #15 on:** January 22, 2012, 11:56:22 AM »

So I'm still not 100% confident in the direction this deck is taking, but I'm going to keep pressing on (with the knowledge that it may end up being a project that gets scrapped). As I go on, I think I'll use this thread to update my progress as I go. Hopefully taking pointers from the community as I go. Thanks for all of your input thus far guys!

EDIT: I decided to play around with the faces a little bit more, add some color and design to them, they seemed a little TOO plain by comparison to what I'm seeing everyone else come out with these days. Here's my results so far, as well as an updated back which is still light years away from where I want it.

SeanWhelan · « **Reply #16 on:** January 22, 2012, 07:03:05 PM »

Honestly that second set of designs seems way too busy now which is what you need to stay away from with numbered cards

Don Boyer · « **Reply #17 on:** January 22, 2012, 07:04:07 PM »

I'm not as big on the gray pips, even with the circles of color around them. I prefer pips to have their proper colors. I'll get some decks without this feature, but they're generally harder to use, especially for my most-played game, Canfield Solitaire.

Kanped · « **Reply #18 on:** January 22, 2012, 07:13:01 PM »

I wouldn't necessarily say there's too much going on, just that it's all in the foreground of the image. I'd actually like to see those design elements take up more space on the cards but be much less prominent. Ideally, at first glance they should look like regular cards and be easily read but reveal more complex design if you pay attention.

Paul Carpenter · « **Reply #19 on:** January 22, 2012, 07:13:59 PM »

Hmm. I like the concept, but the ultimate end design will be a very fine thing to pull off. The cluster pips start to look very visually busy and as Alex said, with 9 and 10 I can see that look being almost overwhelming with so many visual elements.

I don't think your last set of faces with the lines will work. Perhaps if you faded back the line element. I played with similar thoughts when designing Tendril and decided that a face pattern is very cool but simply cannot be the visually dominant element or you lose all readability of the card, which is very important. Too much going on and you lose the ability to quickly "scan" the card with your eyes and know what it is, instead you have to take a long moment to interpret what is going on and see if it's a 7 or 8, etc.

The back design has promise but needs to lose the text IMO. It doesn't add much, and starts to distract.

I think this has promise but will need some very carefully consideration and design elements to pull off and be easy to read while still visually interesting.

Aaron · « **Reply #20 on:** January 22, 2012, 07:19:43 PM »

I like the lines on the faces, I think you should tale the word reflections off the card though.