Theory11 Sentinels Reprinted

[Evan]

They are for sale again: http://www.theory11.com/playingcards/sentinels.php

According to Jonathan Bayme, they now feel like the Monarchs so I guess that means Bicycle 325 stock with Air Cushion (Premium 909) Finish!
It doesnt say that they are plastic coated but I don't think it said that on their site for the first print either so I really hoping that they aren't plastic coated and that they actually last more that 5 minutes.

[xZEROx]

Anything that would let us tell the difference between the two prints?

[Evan]

Anything that would let us tell the difference between the two prints?

Not that I know of. But if these aren't plastic coated then it won't say "Plastic Coated" on the Jokers like the first ones did.

[LeonJL]

I do hope with this reprint of Sentinels they'll correct what was lacking in the first run. I might just get a couple of them to compare the handling. =)

[MDCasino]

oh jeez. I hate when they change things. Is this finish for the better or worse? I never kno ... 

I wish there was some kind of tutorial on finishes and stocks... anyone care to fill in a newcomer?

[Paul Carpenter]

While I probably won't get any of them, if any deck needed a reprint it's the Sentinels. Lovely design but MAN do those handle like a sticky pile of poo. They are far and away the worst handling deck I own, and I'm including the clear plastic Bicycle's in that equation. Actually now that I think about, I might get one so I can actually use them.

MDCasino, most of the stuff coming out of USPCC these days is pretty great handling. You'll hear most about Aristocrat, Bicycle and Bee stocks and general it's either the Premium 909 that MagicAddictz mentioned or Magic finish these days (correct me if I'm wrong collector experts). Air cushion is the embossed texture that probably almost every deck you own has on it, very few decks come with smooth finish.

[LeonJL]

While I probably won't get any of them, if any deck needed a reprint it's the Sentinels. Lovely design but MAN do those handle like a sticky pile of poo. They are far and away the worst handling deck I own, and I'm including the clear plastic Bicycle's in that equation. Actually now that I think about, I might get one so I can actually use them.

I agree, opened a deck and kinda like the custom faces and the backs actually, but urghhh... the handling... so yeap, if the new one shows improvement on the stock and finish, I'm in for one deck to try.

[Don Boyer]

They are for sale again: http://www.theory11.com/playingcards/sentinels.php

According to Jonathan Bayme, they now feel like the Monarchs so I guess that means Bicycle 325 stock with Air Cushion (Premium 909) Finish!
It doesnt say that they are plastic coated but I don't think it said that on their site for the first print either so I really hoping that they aren't plastic coated and that they actually last more that 5 minutes.

While I probably won't get any of them, if any deck needed a reprint it's the Sentinels. Lovely design but MAN do those handle like a sticky pile of poo. They are far and away the worst handling deck I own, and I'm including the clear plastic Bicycle's in that equation. Actually now that I think about, I might get one so I can actually use them.

MDCasino, most of the stuff coming out of USPCC these days is pretty great handling. You'll hear most about Aristocrat, Bicycle and Bee stocks and general it's either the Premium 909 that MagicAddictz mentioned or Magic finish these days (correct me if I'm wrong collector experts). Air cushion is the embossed texture that probably almost every deck you own has on it, very few decks come with smooth finish.

Well, it's been a few weeks since I last posted this...    ...but I'm just presenting the short version.

Despite the marketing gimmicks, USPC has exactly two finishes, standard and Magic.  There's a third one being tested on a portion of the Vortex decks, but it's not available to others until the test is successful.  The term "plastic coating" or "plastic finish" could easily apply to ANY of the varnishes used to finish a deck of playing cards - they're all some form of plastic, and have "plastic" qualities to them (see, it's not just a noun, it's an adjective)!  "Premium 909 Finish" is a marketing term, no different than Ivory, Cambric, Linoid, Air Cushion, Smooth, etc. - it's the same standard finish that most other decks use, period.

"Smooth" and "Air Cushion" simply refer to the PAPER, not the finish.  USPC has four stocks: Bicycle, Aristocrat, Bee and Bee Casino.  Bee stocks are considered premium when it comes to ordering it for decks, while a basic order gets to choose between Bicycle and Aristocrat.  Tally Ho stock and Bicycle Casino stock are no longer available.  Each stock can be ordered with a dimpled (Air Cushion, Cambric, Linoid, etc. - it's all the same) texture or a smooth (Smooth, Ivory, etc.) texture on the surfaces.  You might even try getting fancy and getting a stock like Jerry's that was smooth on one side, textured on the other, but I'd be afraid to ask how much they'd charge you for it.

Variations of these stocks can be created by storing the cut deck sheets under certain temperature and humidity conditions - the Aristo Banknote reprints and Tally Hos don't feel the same in how they handle, but they're both now made with Aristo stock, but they aren't the same variant, since the Banknotes are quite soft while Tallys are more stiff.

I'd assume that they used Bicycle stock and standard finish on the original Sentinels, but that the amount of black ink printed into the backs may have impacted the handling.  It could even have been simply some inconsistencies in the paper company's manufacture of the paper before it even arrived in USPC's hands - you'd be shocked at how much the quality of a single type of stock can vary, and the more recycled paper that's used in it, the lower the quality of card stock it will produce.  ALL stock papers are increasing their recycled content, so it's inevitably going to reduce quality over time unless someone devises a better way to make the paper.

Perhaps this time around it will be Aristocrat stock, since they love using it on other decks and it doesn't cost a penny more.  I personally prefer Aristocrat to Bicycle.  But don't buy into the marketspeak - there are nowhere near the number of finishes and stock most people are led to believe.

EDIT: so much for the SHORT version... 

[Reylek]

USPC stopped offering 325 stock towards the end of 2011. They switched to 300, as the 325 was giving them issues in the finishing dept.

So whatever the Sentinels are on (I don't know), it won't be 325.

[awesomeness12]

I'm pretty glad they reprinted these. I missed out on the 1st editions. Ughh with all these new cards coming out it's hard to decide what to get!

[Siegismyname]

USPC stopped offering 325 stock towards the end of 2011. They switched to 300, as the 325 was giving them issues in the finishing dept.

So whatever the Sentinels are on (I don't know), it won't be 325.

can we have a low down on what all these numbers (i.e. 300 & 325) mean?

[Linguist_]

can we have a low down on what all these numbers (i.e. 300 & 325) mean?

I may be mistaken, but I'm assuming the numbers are referring to the 'gsm' - 'grams per square metre' i.e. how thick the card is. See the wikipedia page on Paper Density if you aren't familiar with that already (it's used for all types of paper and you may have seen when you're buying paper for your printer)

[Don Boyer]

can we have a low down on what all these numbers (i.e. 300 & 325) mean?

I may be mistaken, but I'm assuming the numbers are referring to the 'gsm' - 'grams per square metre' i.e. how thick the card is. See the wikipedia page on Paper Density if you aren't familiar with that already (it's used for all types of paper and you may have seen when you're buying paper for your printer)

I believe you are correct, sir!  Rajas uses the same terms when describing the stocks he uses over at Archduke/Brahma.  I've seen other companies use it as well to describe card stock.

The thing that I like the most about the release is that for the first time that I'm aware of, Theory11 actually released an improved (in box only!) version of a deck of cards and DIDN'T call it VERSION 2!

That whole "Improved 909 Finish" nonsense is meaningless - it's the same thing they said about the original print run, if I'm not mistaken.  I wrote about that above.  Based strictly on the ad text, these appear to be the same cards.  It's not impossible that "improved" in this case means "we used Magic Finish this time", or that they did tweak the stock to make it better somehow, but I'm not holding my breath on this.  It's more likely than not a simple "box upgrade".

It's also looking like a good sign that T11 is gradually getting a little more serious about the business and are making additional print runs of decks in demand, much like Ellusionist has been doing from the start with all of its standard, non-rare decks.

Who wants to wager that, just like Guardians and Steam Punk, USPC obtained the rights to release a USPC version of the deck in a plainer box?  Wonder if they'll use the same color scheme, a la Guardians, or a stripped-down version, a la Steam Punk?

[kc62002]

USPC stopped offering 325 stock towards the end of 2011. They switched to 300, as the 325 was giving them issues in the finishing dept.

So whatever the Sentinels are on (I don't know), it won't be 325.

How many versions of this deck are there? I thought it was two. I bought two decks almost a year apart from one another and one has yellow coloring on it while the other is white. I'll attempt to take a picture in the next couple of days since i have them packed away. This thread sounds like T11 is just now selling a second version. Has anyone one else bought sentinals with yellow coloring on it before the reprint? Could it just be a humidity thing?

[Don Boyer]

USPC stopped offering 325 stock towards the end of 2011. They switched to 300, as the 325 was giving them issues in the finishing dept.

So whatever the Sentinels are on (I don't know), it won't be 325.

How many versions of this deck are there? I thought it was two. I bought two decks almost a year apart from one another and one has yellow coloring on it while the other is white. I'll attempt to take a picture in the next couple of days since i have them packed away. This thread sounds like T11 is just now selling a second version. Has anyone one else bought sentinals with yellow coloring on it before the reprint? Could it just be a humidity thing?

There's a difference between a second printing and a second version.  The original Guardians went through at least two printings before version 2 was released.  A slight variation in the old T11 logo is the only way to tell the difference between printings.

If you're going to collect every PRINT RUN as well as every VERSION, you're going to go broke, brother!

Officially, they aren't calling this "version 2" - as well they shouldn't, since a new box does not a new version make (like they did with ALL of their previous "version 2" decks), and I think they're finally getting this as they hear people complaining about it so much.

[kc62002]

Is a second printing still considered a first edition? I'd appreciate the clarification on this.  I don't collect different versions. Not until i win the lottery of course. lol.  I ordered one when i first started collecting but i opened it. I ordered a second one later to keep sealed. I only ever buy two of any deck and only decks i like.

[Linguist_]

Is a second printing still considered a first edition? I'd appreciate the clarification on this.  I don't collect different versions. Not until i win the lottery of course. lol.  I ordered one when i first started collecting but i opened it. I ordered a second one later to keep sealed. I only ever buy two of any deck and only decks i like.

I imagine the playing card industry is much like the publishing industry for books in this respect. Reprints are done to maintain the stock. Companies don't know exactly how much a product will sell, so they print so many and then either print more if the product is selling well or don't print more. If they print more of the same card then it will be a reprint. For it to become a second, third, fourth etc edition then they need to change something about the deck. Normally, that will mean some sort of improvement, or something that costs more money.

I don't know what the specific thing is with your sentinels deck, so I can't comment on that. But yes, a second printing would still be a first edition. I wish that playing card companies marked their decks with the edition and which print run it is from explicitly, just as books do. It makes life much easier for people trying to identify cards.

[NathanCanadas]

It kind of bothers me when a second edition comes out without major difference or easy way to differentiate them when sealed... :/

[john]

It kind of bothers me when a second edition comes out without major difference or easy way to differentiate them when sealed... :/

This isn't a second edition though... It was simply T11 reprinting a deck like all playing card company's do and brought more attention to it like T11 LOVES to do. Don't tell me you thought 1 print run just lasted forever...

[xZEROx]

I believe this is actually a second edition though. I asked how it could be differentiated on their page, and they answered "Super subtle differences - small tweaks to the words and text on the box. The core design is true to the original edition, though. - // jb"

Someone also pointed out there's a roman numeral II above the pyramid.

This though should be confirmed. I'm not sure if the original ones had that, I don't open my decks. :/
It could very well meant 11 from T11, instead of what was stated as a roman numeral "II".

[john]

I believe this is actually a second edition though. I asked how it could be differentiated on their page, and they answered "Super subtle differences - small tweaks to the words and text on the box. The core design is true to the original edition, though. - // jb"

Someone also pointed out there's a roman numeral II above the pyramid.

This though should be confirmed. I'm not sure if the original ones had that, I don't open my decks. :/
It could very well meant 11 from T11, instead of what was stated as a roman numeral "II".

Well if were getting into technicalities then this is a v3. It seems no one remembers the difference between the 1st run of sentinels and the 2nd run was some changes of coloring to the box.

[NathanCanadas]

I believe this is actually a second edition though. I asked how it could be differentiated on their page, and they answered "Super subtle differences - small tweaks to the words and text on the box. The core design is true to the original edition, though. - // jb"

Someone also pointed out there's a roman numeral II above the pyramid.

This though should be confirmed. I'm not sure if the original ones had that, I don't open my decks. :/
It could very well meant 11 from T11, instead of what was stated as a roman numeral "II".

Well if were getting into technicalities then this is a v3. It seems no one remembers the difference between the 1st run of sentinels and the 2nd run was some changes of coloring to the box.

But I believe they are officially calling these v2s.

[shutupdangit]

I believe this is actually a second edition though. I asked how it could be differentiated on their page, and they answered "Super subtle differences - small tweaks to the words and text on the box. The core design is true to the original edition, though. - // jb"

Someone also pointed out there's a roman numeral II above the pyramid.

This though should be confirmed. I'm not sure if the original ones had that, I don't open my decks. :/
It could very well meant 11 from T11, instead of what was stated as a roman numeral "II".

The "II" above the pyramids have always been there.

Since they're not being advertised as a v2 (as opposed to the Guardians), I don't consider them v2.

[xZEROx]

Maybe someone who'll pick these up could tell us what these "super subtle differences, small tweaks to the words and text on the box" are. Or maybe it's just one of their play of words to get us buying the products.

If the "II"'s always been there, then I doubt this'll be v2, or v3. Like @shutupdangit says, they're not advertised as v2.

[jhayel84]

I got the first version of sentinels which I bought from D&D. I opened the deck and inspected the cards. Did some flourishes for less than 10mins hence I thought to myself that they weren't too bad for handling. After a few weeks I played with it again and to my surprise all cards are clumped!! I like the design but for longevity it fails. PS I kept the cards in a cool place with my other collections.

If the handling and longevity on these reprints are better than the first then I will a buy a few to replenish my stock

[Don Boyer]

Guys - I bought a deck of Propagandas recently to supplement my supply.  It had slight differences in the font AND stated it was printed in Kentucky, not Ohio.  When asked about this, T11 simply said it was a new PRINTING of the deck, and that a V2 was in the works but hadn't been released yet.


Are the CARDS the same?  Because to me, that's what makes a new version.  T11 has had some fun in the past making fancier tuck boxes and passing them off as V2, but this time around, they actually appear to be doing right by the customer and simply saying they're back in stock, have at them.  All the adspeak about improved this and better that is the same stuff they said about the deck with the initial release - pay it no mind.

[Siegismyname]

Guys - I bought a deck of Propagandas recently to supplement my supply.  It had slight differences in the font AND stated it was printed in Kentucky, not Ohio.  When asked about this, T11 simply said it was a new PRINTING of the deck, and that a V2 was in the works but hadn't been released yet.

I have a KY propaganda too. When I compared it with my OH guardians, the stock is significantly softer and they are about 3 cards thinner. They also feel very good in springs.