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Playing Card Chat ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦ => Playing Card Plethora => Topic started by: Lukeout on January 02, 2014, 10:18:01 AM
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Thanks to all the help from this forum, I've finally got my deck ready for Kickstarter and just launched it. I really appreciate all the advice - you guys were amazingly helpful. I'm super happy with how the cards turned out, but I'm going to be letting the backers guide the deck box design during the campaign as I think it can be better.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1590934883/meeple-playing-cards-limited-edition
Luke :D
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I was worried for a while that this had a one-way back until I realized it wasn't (unless I'm wrong again). I have mixed feelings on this one. Starred for now since there's no Early Bird. I'd like to see more of the court cards though.
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I congratulate you and wish you good luck. You'll need to promote it a lot among the gamer community - it's a rough market out there for decks now and any good deck has to reach beyond the card collector community in order to really go big.
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You'll need to promote it a lot among the gamer community - it's a rough market out there for decks now and any good deck has to reach beyond the card collector community in order to really go big.
I agree Dan. This deck was made for folks who don't normally look at playing card project. It's also the reason I didn't do early birds (they are getting a bad name on the gaming side of Kickstarter lately due to some shenanigans). I expect the campaign to start slow as the product isn't really a bulls-eye for either group (it's not a big euro game and it's not a deck specifically for collectors). Going to take some work to get over the line for sure. Hopefully this deck and decks like it can grow the playing card collecting community.
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I agree Dan. This deck was made for folks who don't normally look at playing card project. It's also the reason I didn't do early birds (they are getting a bad name on the gaming side of Kickstarter lately due to some shenanigans). I expect the campaign to start slow as the product isn't really a bulls-eye for either group (it's not a big euro game and it's not a deck specifically for collectors). Going to take some work to get over the line for sure. Hopefully this deck and decks like it can grow the playing card collecting community.
Why do people insist on calling me Dan when my name is Don...? :))
What shenanigans? This is the first I'm hearing of it, but that shouldn't be surprising since I'm no gamer.
Here's an interesting thought - create a tier for a board game that uses the deck! It can be a simple but entertaining beer-and-pretzels game that comes with Meeples! It doesn't even have to be something new, just something that comes with the deck.
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I agree Dan.
Why do people insist on calling me Dan when my name is Don...? :))
What shenanigans? This is the first I'm hearing of it, but that shouldn't be surprising since I'm no gamer.
Here's an interesting thought - create a tier for a board game that uses the deck! It can be a simple but entertaining beer-and-pretzels game that comes with Meeples! It doesn't even have to be something new, just something that comes with the deck.
Sorry about the name thing, as a guy who grew up being called Luke Skywalker his whole life, you think I'd be more careful. :(
I'm actually working a game that uses the cards - printing the rules on the two extra cards. Can't announce anything yet as it's got an issue I need to figure out still.
Some folks over in the game space are creating early birds to give the feeling of a "deal that you have to act quickly on" then when it is about to get filled, they add a bunch more spaces to it. On the backer side, there are whole groups of folks who pounce on all early birds, and then 90% of them back out if the campaign doesn't hit a bunch of stretch goals. When spots open up on the "Early Bird" space it makes a campaign look really bad. That doesn't seem to happen on playing cards as much so I'm probably over reacting.
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I'm actually working a game that uses the cards - printing the rules on the two extra cards. Can't announce anything yet as it's got an issue I need to figure out still.
Some folks over in the game space are creating early birds to give the feeling of a "deal that you have to act quickly on" then when it is about to get filled, they add a bunch more spaces to it. On the backer side, there are whole groups of folks who pounce on all early birds, and then 90% of them back out if the campaign doesn't hit a bunch of stretch goals. When spots open up on the "Early Bird" space it makes a campaign look really bad. That doesn't seem to happen on playing cards as much so I'm probably over reacting.
Seriously, whip up a game game - something with pieces and such, maybe a simple board. It could even be printed on paper and rubberbanded to the deck or something, I dunno. Just takin' some stabs in the dark here.
Early birds are used on the playing card side to spark early interest in a project. Most of the time, people hold them. The only time they don't is when the creator doesn't allow add-ons to an early bird. The reason they might do that is that some people complain about not being able to afford the deck at full cost and the early bird gives them a chance to do so - by restricting the early bird to no add-ons, only people interested in a single deck or two decks (and who might not otherwise be able to afford the deck) will take the early bird. They only surrender it if they decide they want the add-ons and can afford to give up the early bird - in which case someone else is glad to snatch it up. But I've never seen ADDITIONAL early birds get added after the first round runs out - they're early birds for a reason.
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I'm actually working a game that uses the cards - printing the rules on the two extra cards. Can't announce anything yet as it's got an issue I need to figure out still.
Some folks over in the game space are creating early birds to give the feeling of a "deal that you have to act quickly on" then when it is about to get filled, they add a bunch more spaces to it. On the backer side, there are whole groups of folks who pounce on all early birds, and then 90% of them back out if the campaign doesn't hit a bunch of stretch goals. When spots open up on the "Early Bird" space it makes a campaign look really bad. That doesn't seem to happen on playing cards as much so I'm probably over reacting.
Seriously, whip up a game game - something with pieces and such, maybe a simple board. It could even be printed on paper and rubberbanded to the deck or something, I dunno. Just takin' some stabs in the dark here.
But I've never seen ADDITIONAL early birds get added after the first round runs out - they're early birds for a reason.
Game is designed now!, and I'll be play testing this weekend at a gaming/music convention called MagFest where I am a speaker (If I can get my car out from under all this snow..). The rules should fit on the two extra cards! The game right now is a twist on "Chase the Ace" - and if it's as fun as I think it will be, it'll be a nice addition.
As for the early bird trickery, they aren't setting up a new backer level, they are changing the limit. You can't alter backer level descriptions after one is taken, but you can alter the number available. So creators put up a "early bird" with 50 slots, then when 45 of them are taken, they raise the limit to 75 slots... I actually left a campaign that did this once I was so insulted. I don't think "marketing = trickery" when you have a product you believe in.
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Game is designed now!, and I'll be play testing this weekend at a gaming/music convention called MagFest where I am a speaker (If I can get my car out from under all this snow..). The rules should fit on the two extra cards! The game right now is a twist on "Chase the Ace" - and if it's as fun as I think it will be, it'll be a nice addition.
As for the early bird trickery, they aren't setting up a new backer level, they are changing the limit. You can't alter backer level descriptions after one is taken, but you can alter the number available. So creators put up a "early bird" with 50 slots, then when 45 of them are taken, they raise the limit to 75 slots... I actually left a campaign that did this once I was so insulted. I don't think "marketing = trickery" when you have a product you believe in.
Good luck with the game!
The "EB totals" trickery - that sucks. I've not yet seen a deck campaign do this. That's really low.
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Dat simplicity 8)
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Alrighty, so it looks like there is little/no chance of the Meeple deck hitting it's goal with two different card back designs unless something drastic happens. I'm thinking about canceling it and relaunching the concept quickly with a single back design so I can cut the goal in half. Has anyone done that before? If I go that way, I'll do a shorter campaign (hoping to get all the old backer to jump over quickly). I'd also relaunch with early birds both as a reward for folks who backed before when they come over and to allow a lower cost for folks who might be looking at getting in early to save a few dollars.
Thoughts?
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Alrighty, so it looks like there is little/no chance of the Meeple deck hitting it's goal with two different card back designs unless something drastic happens. I'm thinking about canceling it and relaunching the concept quickly with a single back design so I can cut the goal in half. Has anyone done that before? If I go that way, I'll do a shorter campaign (hoping to get all the old backer to jump over quickly). I'd also relaunch with early birds both as a reward for folks who backed before when they come over and to allow a lower cost for folks who might be looking at getting in early to save a few dollars.
Thoughts?
The legacy deck is also having a similar situation as yours, although their will most likely get funded, but without hitting the stretch goals. You can take a look at the discussion, link as below.
http://aethercards.com/discourse/playing-card-plethora/legacy-deck-4pm-designs/
Looking at your pledges, there is not a pledge that would make me want to jump in and pledge first. It gives me a feeling that i could just wait till the last day to pledge and i could still get the same thing as one who pledged on the first day. Therefore, early bird specials or special limited decks or freebies could be a good idea to get the initial boost.
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Alrighty, so it looks like there is little/no chance of the Meeple deck hitting it's goal with two different card back designs unless something drastic happens. I'm thinking about canceling it and relaunching the concept quickly with a single back design so I can cut the goal in half. Has anyone done that before? If I go that way, I'll do a shorter campaign (hoping to get all the old backer to jump over quickly). I'd also relaunch with early birds both as a reward for folks who backed before when they come over and to allow a lower cost for folks who might be looking at getting in early to save a few dollars.
Thoughts?
As stated, done before.
Don't shorten the duration of the project. Keep it the same length and set a stretch goal for getting the second deck made. You'll need to know all of your costs cold in order to get it right, but many deck projects have done this successfully in the past, adding even a third, fourth, fifth, etc. deck.
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Have you tried hitting the forums at Board Game Geek and advertising it there? The deck might appeal to folks over there.
I pledged (love board games) and hope it gets funded. Good luck!
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I actually have some ads running over there now!
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Hey Folks,
Jordan and I pulled the trigger and cancelled the Meeple deck Kickstarter campaign that had two different colored backs. It was pretty clear we weren't going to make it to $12K. At the same time, we retooled the campaign as a single colored back and we just relaunched with a $6200 goal - something that we think we can reach. As everyone knows on this board, that number won't cover all of our expenses, but our plan is to sell the remainder of the decks at gaming conventions this Summer, so we're comfortable taking the financial risk.
This also gave us a chance to take some advice from this forum and add early birds to the backing options - so if you didn't back before due to lack of Early Bird savings, then now would be a good time to check out the Meeple deck and save a few bucks.
Thanks again to everyone on this forum for your excellent advice and feedback - it's been super helpful to Jordan and I as we take this journey!
new campaign link: http://kck.st/1dDIsxb
Luke
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looks like a limited version of the deck is now live on kickstarter. I did not start a different thread
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1590934883/meeple-playing-cards-super-limited-edition (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1590934883/meeple-playing-cards-super-limited-edition)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/513/519/7636cbd91f6a1bb152785a9584305f2e_large.png?1389365500)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/503/517/1a6479f1ae24043dce99413f9ac31615_large.png?1389106068)
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looks like a limited version of the deck is now live on kickstarter. I did not start a different thread
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1590934883/meeple-playing-cards-super-limited-edition (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1590934883/meeple-playing-cards-super-limited-edition)
I know - Luke did. Hey, Luke - it's better to keep your deck to a single topic so it's easier to find info about it later one.
Good luck with this one, Luke.
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Jumped in on 1 early bird. I liked the tuck box in the 2 color launch though. Are you planning to release the other color as a stretch?
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looks like a limited version of the deck is now live on kickstarter. I did not start a different thread
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1590934883/meeple-playing-cards-super-limited-edition (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1590934883/meeple-playing-cards-super-limited-edition)
I know - Luke did. Hey, Luke - it's better to keep your deck to a single topic so it's easier to find info about it later one.
Sorry about that Don/folks, I hadn't picked up the one-thread-per-topic faux pas thing - my bad! Also, thanks for all the good advice, the new campaign is off to a much better start thanks to the advice I got here!
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You should tweak the home page a bit. You mention two first names in the Challenges section of the page. The average Joe Kickstarter won't have any idea who those two people are unless you tell them somewhere higher up, such as perhaps the first paragraph, "Hi, we're So-and-So and So-and-So, etc." Because of some failed projects in the past, some people get wary when they see a company name and no individuals identifying themselves on a project.
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You should tweak the home page a bit. You mention two first names in the Challenges section of the page. The average Joe Kickstarter won't have any idea who those two people are unless you tell them somewhere higher up, such as perhaps the first paragraph, "Hi, we're So-and-So and So-and-So, etc." Because of some failed projects in the past, some people get wary when they see a company name and no individuals identifying themselves on a project.
Change made. I was hoping go keep it casual to first names as Geek Dynasty has done a KS project before and it shipped on time, and I am one of the owners of another company called Fun to 11 and that group has done 4 that all shipped on time or early. But there is no downside to putting our names earlier I guess!
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But there is no downside to putting our names earlier I guess!
Just ask the people who backed the Founders deck, the Bicycle Asylum deck, the Ultraviolet deck...etc.
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It may just be me, but why are their numbers on the backs of the cards? Seems kind of pointless. Also not sure how these appeal to gamers then again I ain't much of a gamer.
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It may just be me, but why are their numbers on the backs of the cards? Seems kind of pointless. Also not sure how these appeal to gamers then again I ain't much of a gamer.
We went over this in the previous topic about the deck, Victor. It's for use in some games as a sort of points counter.
The appeal to gamers is that the "meeple" is to Europe like the generic pawn piece for board games is to the United States, particularly for specialty board games that you don't typically see in a place like Toys-R-Us or Target but instead have to find at a games hobby shop.
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Thanks to some great advice from Don here, we just announced our new "extra" cards. These are point scoring tracking cards that people can use when they play games. They are based on an older deck that Don posted up here, of course done in the style of the deck. We really like these as they are unique and feel right for this deck. I hope you like them too!
This campaign only has 6 days left, and we'd love it if you shared the link with any gaming friends you might have. It's going to be really really close and we could use the help...
Thanks!
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Thanks to some great advice from Don here, we just announced our new "extra" cards. These are point scoring tracking cards that people can use when they play games. They are based on an older deck that Don posted up here, of course done in the style of the deck. We really like these as they are unique and feel right for this deck. I hope you like them too!
This campaign only has 6 days left, and we'd love it if you shared the link with any gaming friends you might have. It's going to be really really close and we could use the help...
Thanks!
Thank you, thank you - no applause necessary, just throw money... :))
You did a great job on the look of them. Are you connecting them at the corner yourself or leaving that as a DIY project?
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The campaign is down to the final 30 hours and we're at 80%. I think we've done just about everything we can do on this one - vinyl stickers, cool score-cards, card reveals, etc... This website has been super helpful and supportive of the effort and we really appreciate the help for a product that is a little askew from what most collectors look for.
One last ask. If you could share our link (http://kck.st/1dDIsxb) with any gamer or playing card oriented friends via email, Twitter (#Meepledeck) or Facebook, we'd really appreciate it. We don't want to leave a single stone unturned and with a good ending surge we might be able to make this happen...
Thanks everyone. Once again, we really appreciate all the help you've offered to date. This is an amazingly supportive and informative community.
Luke and Jordan
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The campaign is down to the final 30 hours and we're at 80%. I think we've done just about everything we can do on this one - vinyl stickers, cool score-cards, card reveals, etc... This website has been super helpful and supportive of the effort and we really appreciate the help for a product that is a little askew from what most collectors look for.
One last ask. If you could share our link (http://kck.st/1dDIsxb) with any gamer or playing card oriented friends via email, Twitter (#Meepledeck) or Facebook, we'd really appreciate it. We don't want to leave a single stone unturned and with a good ending surge we might be able to make this happen...
Thanks everyone. Once again, we really appreciate all the help you've offered to date. This is an amazingly supportive and informative community.
Luke and Jordan
You still have a fighting chance, especially now that the board's back in operation after a little hiccup with the URL change. Best of luck!
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Final Sprint today. Lots of interesting thoughts, but one thing makes me really happy - Jordan and I really did our best to take the concept and implement it at every step, using good ideas no matter where they came from (ego = 0 on this). Make it or not, I'm really proud of the work we did. Jordan even laid out the press sheet so the black cards make a vaguely Meeple shape (as much as you can with a 7x8 grid that is)!
Off to email all the folks who cancelled their pledges and see if I can woo them back...
thanks again everyone!
Luke
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FREE DECKS. That's the last bullet in the gun, and that's what I just fired off. I added a free deck to the 6-deck package and the one that comes with a press sheet and THREE free decks to the brick level purchase.
In the end, I felt like I had to do everything possible, and while I've spent a lot of time and effort in getting the word out, I needed to do something to encourage backers to move up to a higher level. And while this will give me fewer decks to sell after the campaign and I'll soak a tiny amount of extra shipping, that's WAY better than having NO decks to sell after the campaign (and none to ship).
Initial response seems good, so hopefully I'll make the final $350 or so in the next 6 hours. And if I do, those backers are going to (rightly) get an awesome deal.
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So you're funding won't even cover expenses and now you are offering free decks? Seems a little bit like desperation to me. Then if you don't have enough money people will not be happy.
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So you're funding won't even cover expenses and now you are offering free decks? Seems a little bit like desperation to me. Then if you don't have enough money people will not be happy.
I'll start with your comment that "it's complete desperation"... Yup, it totally is. I want it funded and I need a way to do it without putting substantially more money in. "Leave no bullet in the gun" is the motto today.
The decks I'm giving away are essentially "zero cost items" for me at this point. Because of deck printing minimums, I'm going to have lots of decks left over. Giving them away as marketing is really only going to cost me shipping as the printing costs are by definition sunk costs (I have to print them). The only thing I'm losing other than shipping is some future revenue from 30-50 decks that I won't have to sell - which wouldn't impact me until I've sold all the other extra decks.
I know it sounds weird to say this, but I'm still super confident that I'll be able to sell the decks I need to more than break even on this when it's all said and done. I'm already getting gaming stores contacting me for wholesale level purchases, and the convention season is right around the corner. My break even on the project will require me to sell 200-250 decks at retail, or 400-500 decks at wholesale. I expect to hit that number in less than a year, but if it takes 2-3, then fine.
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Well that's good to know, my apologies.
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Well that's good to know, my apologies.
No apology required man! You hit the nail on the head (this was desperation). I know that my campaign is not normal and takes extra explaining - that job is on me, not other people. Honestly, I like when people post like you did - it gives me a chance to explain myself better and distance myself from less-than-honrable/prepared KS campaigns. I had a backer leave because they didn't think my minimum was high enough and it took a dozen emails to make him feel better about it, but I couldn't be mad as I know folks get burned on KS all the time.
So no apology required, I should be thanking you for the comment. (seriously, it's really helpful!)
Thanks!
Luke
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FUNDED :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Thanks to everyone who helped make this deck better and those who backed it. We are already close to our first file send to USPCC (just need to secure a UPC code).
If any other creators out there want an inside look at the last few days of the campaign and what I did to spur things at the end, here's a link to my BHAG blog. The last two entries were very Meeple Deck focused.
http://thegeekdynasty.wordpress.com
We've got the Binary deck lined up next, but we want to deliver these before we launch to show folks we get the job done.
Thanks again,
Luke
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Quick update. We've received our decks from USPC and they look great!
We are now doing shipping test where I'm sending out a small group of decks to random backers to make sure my shipping options work well (we're more than a month ahead of schedule). A few happy backers have already received their deck and have given them really good reviews. Once these are out, we'll move on to our Binary deck now that we'll have proven to everyone that we will deliver a high quality product in on time.
Thanks again for all your help everyone. These decks wouldn't be as nice without all the feedback we got here.
Luke and Jordan
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Looks like congratulations are in order!
Are there any remaining for you to sell or is the whole print run committed to yourself and your backers?
How did the counter turn out?
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Looks like congratulations are in order!
Are there any remaining for you to sell or is the whole print run committed to yourself and your backers?
How did the counter turn out?
Thanks Don!
I've got a number of decks left for sure. The plan all along was to sell the remaining decks at trade shows and as add-ons in future Kickstarter campaigns. After I finish all the Kickstarter shipping, I'll put up a tiny on-line store where folks can order decks and the remaining signed/numbered uncut sheets if they want to.
The counter cards turned out really well. I almost wish I would have dropped the two jokers so I could have put in another pair, but decks need jokers too.
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For those who missed the Kickstarter, here is the link to my small on-line store where I'm listing the remainder of my Limited Edition Meeple Decks. 2 or 3 other items on there as well (non-playing card Kickstarter projects I've done with various people).
Thanks again for all the help everyone! It has felt really great hearing all the positive comments and the overall surprise at us "first timers" delivering early.
https://www.shopstarter.com/p/1590934883/meeple-playing-cards-super-limited-edition/
Luke
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Looks like a fun deck. This may be off topic a bit but why oh why has the cost of shipping gradually gone up and up? This is starting to be off putting when shipping is almost as much as cards. Sorry, don't mean to take it out on you, I see it more and more now. Okay finished my rant. But seriously Congratulations on your design! Looks original, quirky and entertaining.
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Yea, the shipping stuff kills me. I've got one more deck I'm working on and it's going to have some odd ordering options so that I can minimize everyones shipping cost. Domestically, there is a big break between 3 and 4 decks. And NO change at all from 4 to 8 decks (flat rate shipping). Internationally, the breaks aren't as clear, but with some investigation, I bet I can find them....
BTW, if any of you out there have ordered the Meeple Deck, and not filled out your survey - you really should. There are like 20 backers who I've tried every way possible to communicate with and I still don't have the info needed to get the their your decks. I'm kind of at a lost for what to do.