NEW Egyptian Legends Deck..........

[Anthony]

Posted this morning on LPCC FB page

[Card Player]

Is Mark Stutzman still involved? The back design will tell all.

[HolyJJ]

I want a minimum of two bricks of these!

I'm genuinely interested in knowing whether the cardstock and coating is going to be exactly the same as the V2 Legends, and whether there is going to be a difference.

Whatever the case, quality wise they are leaps and bounds ahead of USPCC, and so I'll be buying them anyway.

[ozfan30]

I am very excited about these. It seems like the good decks just keep rolling in. Zenith, Independence, this, Smith #3, just to name a few. I am very glad I have a paying job that allows me to pick them up.

[Card Player]

The deck looks great so far, I'm just not into Egyptian. I tend to stay away from decks that have themes to them. I'm sure these will do very well in sales, just not for me.

[Siegismyname]

The box got me sold. Like the colors used. This and gatorbacks are on my to get list

[vmagic]

These look great, can't wait.

[Don Boyer]

I want a minimum of two bricks of these!

I'm genuinely interested in knowing whether the cardstock and coating is going to be exactly the same as the V2 Legends, and whether there is going to be a difference.

Whatever the case, quality wise they are leaps and bounds ahead of USPCC, and so I'll be buying them anyway.

The Legends Playing Card Company and the Expert Playing Card Company both use the same printer in Taiwan to do their work now.  Expert has used other printers in the past, but not Legends.  Legends is also taking print jobs from deck designers, predominantly from Asia, in much the same way Expert works in North America.  They appear to work together rather than as competitors.

In other words, rest assured they're likely to be using the same process and stock - or something improved!

[HolyJJ]

I want a minimum of two bricks of these!

I'm genuinely interested in knowing whether the cardstock and coating is going to be exactly the same as the V2 Legends, and whether there is going to be a difference.

Whatever the case, quality wise they are leaps and bounds ahead of USPCC, and so I'll be buying them anyway.

The Legends Playing Card Company and the Expert Playing Card Company both use the same printer in Taiwan to do their work now.  Expert has used other printers in the past, but not Legends.  Legends is also taking print jobs from deck designers, predominantly from Asia, in much the same way Expert works in North America.  They appear to work together rather than as competitors.

In other words, rest assured they're likely to be using the same process and stock - or something improved!

Hey Don.

I'm fully aware of the fact that the Legends Playing Card Company and CARC/EPCC work together alot, and are not competitors -- I've always kept a close eye on anything LPPC related ever since the first teaser photo of the Legends V1 were released.

When talking about what to expect from stocks/finishes for this deck, I guess I wasn't too clear...

Although EPCC do work together with LPPC, the stock for the Exquisites is definitely different to the stock for say the Fatboy or Legends V2 decks. Yes, both are high quality... but they are NOT exactly the same in their handling -- some will prefer one to the other.

I personally prefer the V2 Legends -- the cardstock is definitely thicker, the I find them to have a better slip factor. Also, the Legends V2 last a heck of a lot longer than the Exquisites (for me, anyway). They're definitely not the same though.

I guess what I was trying to ask was which of those two stocks will this new version of Legends be using... or if it is something different (or an upgrade, kind of like from V1 to V2 Legends), which of the stocks (master or diamond) will the new stock be closer to?

[Don Boyer]

Hey Don.

I'm fully aware of the fact that the Legends Playing Card Company and CARC/EPCC work together alot, and are not competitors -- I've always kept a close eye on anything LPPC related ever since the first teaser photo of the Legends V1 were released.

When talking about what to expect from stocks/finishes for this deck, I guess I wasn't too clear...

Although EPCC do work together with LPPC, the stock for the Exquisites is definitely different to the stock for say the Fatboy or Legends V2 decks. Yes, both are high quality... but they are NOT exactly the same in their handling -- some will prefer one to the other.

I personally prefer the V2 Legends -- the cardstock is definitely thicker, the I find them to have a better slip factor. Also, the Legends V2 last a heck of a lot longer than the Exquisites (for me, anyway). They're definitely not the same though.

I guess what I was trying to ask was which of those two stocks will this new version of Legends be using... or if it is something different (or an upgrade, kind of like from V1 to V2 Legends), which of the stocks (master or diamond) will the new stock be closer to?

Actually, the Legends v2 and the Exquisites did use the same stock, though the process by which they were made had a slight variation.  This is coming from Bill Kalush himself, when the two decks were a day from release and I was visiting CARC.  He was kind enough to give me a few decks - in his own assessment, and I think he mentioned Lawrence Sullivan agreed, the v2 Legends were very good, but the Exquisites were slightly better.  Further, he said the red Exquisite deck wasn't quite as good in performance as the blue deck was.

Legends Playing Card Company is LPCC, right?  You've been using LPPC and it's been confusing me a little until now.

The one thing I can tell you is that they have a source for paper from Germany, and that stock is part of the "recipe" that makes a Legends or an Expert deck what it is.  There's also the quality of the printing and the experimentation that Bill does to improve the state of "what's possible" where it comes to making cards.

If you want to know more or have more questions, you can contact the new "company rep" account on the company topic, among the sticky topics we have now.  Even if your question is about the Legends decks, they'll give you the best possible answer.

[Paul.Middleton]

Legends is also taking print jobs from deck designers, predominantly from Asia, in much the same way Expert works in North America. 

And the UK

[Nurul]

Legends is also taking print jobs from deck designers, predominantly from Asia, in much the same way Expert works in North America. 

And the UK

Will you be stocking these Paul? If so, when?

[shadowkat]

Coming soon, from their facebook page:

[Yashi]

There's already a thread for this.

Other than that, looks great! If everything goes well on my side than this might be my first Legends deck.

[Don Boyer]

There's already a thread for this.

Other than that, looks great! If everything goes well on my side than this might be my first Legends deck.

Could you show me that thread?  I'd like to merge them, after I give them a look-see...

[shadowkat]

There's already a thread for this.

Other than that, looks great! If everything goes well on my side than this might be my first Legends deck.

Could you show me that thread?  I'd like to merge them, after I give them a look-see...

They have already been merged.  I posted the back design as a new thread.  Someone kindly merged them. 

[Nurul]

Is there an update or progress on this deck that anyone knows of?

[Wilko]

Not 100% sure exactly when these are being released
I've been playing with mine for a couple of weeks now and they handle really nice. Nice clean edges. Faro both ways after a tiny bit of breaking in.
The tuck is really thick & strong. Bits of the tuck really pop because of the foil etc.
here are some pics I took. There not the best so apologies in advance!!
I'm sure you will like the decks when they are finally released.   

[Wilko]

Legends

[Wilko]

Egyptians

[Wilko]

Foil
Tuck front

[Nurul]

Ooooo shiny did u pick yours up from aboard? looks very nice, defo looking forward to these

[bamabenz]

Ok, they are nice and all.........but the number is trademarked? Really? All by itself? And putting that all that trademark text on the AoS .... Gosh.

Pass.

[Don Boyer]

Ok, they are nice and all.........but the number is trademarked? Really? All by itself? And putting that all that trademark text on the AoS .... Gosh.

Pass.

It's not the AoS you're seeing, it's the tuck box - the tiny TM symbol is directly next to the title, which IS a trademark.    The brand number may or may not be a trademark, I'm not sure, but it's not labeled as such in this image.  If it is, I'm sure it's only in the context of being part of the title, i.e., "Legends No. 202" as opposed to simply the number 202 all by itself.  Otherwise, USPC might make a stink over the following...

The 202 is really just a stock number, pretty much superfluous in the age of the barcode, and stock numbers such as these are retained by a lot of card makers only out of traditional and nostalgia.

[Fess]

Every couple days I pop on to the LPCC site and see if I can purchase these. Great photos, they make me want to get my mits on them even more. Thanks for posting them.

[Don Boyer]

Every couple days I pop on to the LPCC site and see if I can purchase these. Great photos, they make me want to get my mits on them even more. Thanks for posting them.

We have a daughterboard for company topics in the Plethora - LPCC has one.  If they're announcing something, you'll know about it there.

[Marcus]

Ok, they are nice and all.........but the number is trademarked? Really? All by itself? And putting that all that trademark text on the AoS .... Gosh.

Pass.

It's not the AoS you're seeing, it's the tuck box - the tiny TM symbol is directly next to the title, which IS a trademark.    The brand number may or may not be a trademark, I'm not sure, but it's not labeled as such in this image.  If it is, I'm sure it's only in the context of being part of the title, i.e., "Legends No. 202" as opposed to simply the number 202 all by itself.  Otherwise, USPC might make a stink over the following...

The 202 is really just a stock number, pretty much superfluous in the age of the barcode, and stock numbers such as these are retained by a lot of card makers only out of traditional and nostalgia.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that is the Ace we're seeing, Don. The tuck box is the box-looking thingy next to the Ace.

[Don Boyer]

Well, it's the Ace NOW...  But the spade on the card box has some extra details that the AoS doesn't, and the image I saw showed the box, not the Ace of Spades.

Nice Ace...

[bamabenz]

Well, it's the Ace NOW...  But the spade on the card box has some extra details that the AoS doesn't, and the image I saw showed the box, not the Ace of Spades.

Nice Ace...

Okkkkkkkkkkkkkkkay. That clears that up......

Seriously, I like the graphic on the box, and would love to see that as the AoS.
But the actual AoS as depicted looks like it was designed by a lawyer...a bad lawyer.

[Don Boyer]

Well, it's the Ace NOW...  But the spade on the card box has some extra details that the AoS doesn't, and the image I saw showed the box, not the Ace of Spades.

Nice Ace...

Okkkkkkkkkkkkkkkay. That clears that up......

Seriously, I like the graphic on the box, and would love to see that as the AoS.
But the actual AoS as depicted looks like it was designed by a lawyer...a bad lawyer.

Seriously, as I'm looking at the topic now, there's a LOT of photos I didn't see here before.  Maybe the computer at work is FUBAR or something...

[BiggerDee]

I bought some of these today to add to my Legends Series collection, but I didn't see anything about them being a limited release. That being said, have I missed something somewhere, or is it a safe assumption that these are an open series, and not a limited (1,500, 2,500, 5,000 only) run? Just curious.

[Anthony]

I've been looking forward to these since they were revealed, it is kind of funny that adding an additional deck to the 3 pack pops in $2.50 shipping, lol

.............I'm not crying about it, I understand the plite of international shoppers.

[doubledouble]

I bought some of these today to add to my Legends Series collection, but I didn't see anything about them being a limited release. That being said, have I missed something somewhere, or is it a safe assumption that these are an open series, and not a limited (1,500, 2,500, 5,000 only) run? Just curious.

3202 of each color, and "even less of each to be sold".

[BiggerDee]

Good info, thank you!

[HolyJJ]

The quality on this deck is insane!!

First of all, the tuck box... It's by far the best tuck so far from the printers in Taiwan. Tucks for previous decks by LPCC (and even EPCC) have been good, but this one takes quality to a new level.

The tuck card feels a lot more durable than anything I know of from USPCC, and the embossed foil is superb. The foil inside the tuck is in a league of it's own -- really shiny and very smooth to touch. Then of course there is the die cut, and perforated seal also. The tuck for this deck as it all.

The cards themselves are perfect for me -- brilliant slip factor, yet at the same time they have the right balance of tack also for extracting single cards (I've not had a single instance of 52-card-pick up with them, where as anything with the USPCC magic finish ends up on the floor at least twice).

The cards also slightly thicker than the Legends V2. Not as thick as the usual Bee Casino cards... but in my estimation, they're the same thickness as the Sharps by LPCC, and Richard Turner's Gamblers. This is my favourite thickness for cards, and so I absolutely love them. Handling is superb for shuffling and any expert at the card table type of sleights.

The artwork by Stutzman, is as expected, excellent. Although the back design for the Legends V2 had a lot more going on, the back design for the #202 Legends is very well balanced in my opinion. The two tone silver and blue is my favourite of the lot.

The card faces are one of the most pleasing things about this deck. Yes, the courts are traditional and not custom (yay!!), but they're the best recoloured traditional courts by far. LPCC have used a pretty cool gold ink on the courts which really makes the other colours (in particular, the red ink) look extra vivid and really 'pop'. Also, the AoS is really cool -- it's now a favourite for me.

The only imperfection I can spot is that the embossed foil on the tuck is sometimes a pixel off from deck to deck... but even that actually looks pretty cool, because it gives a 3D effect. Unless you have multiple decks to compare against, you'd probably think the 1 pixel offset was deliberate.

So, as I'm sure nobody will have been able to guess, I love the #202 Legends! I highly recommend these
 

[Anthony]

Ya, Holy JJ, this is for you my friend.......beautiful work by Lawrence and LPCC

[HolyJJ]

Excellent photos brother! +1 for you

I think anyone who likes the feel of the previous Legends decks, and also likes the feel of Bee cards, they'll really like these #202 Legends.

Where as V2 Legends took virtually no time to break in, I found that these ones took a bit longer... but once that was done, they handled brilliantly. Great deck.

[Fess]

Just found my parcel with the Legends EE decks in it haha. Apparently I've had the decks for a couple days and didn't know about it. I walked into my office after the game, sat down to enjoy practice time with some cards. Looked for some unknown reason at the bookshelf across the room and noticed two parcels lol. Viola! Legends EEs and stained glass KS deck. Gotta love it when someone kindly puts things away before you've had the opportunity to investigate what it may or may not be.

[ruicorreia]

I've received my decks.
Beside the tuck box (very well done) I really like the cut because the edges are now easier to grab. And I like that the cards are marked with the same binary system found on Legends V1. But I still haven't figured out how to spot the suits. Can anyone tell me?

[bruh man]

I've received my decks.
Beside the tuck box (very well done) I really like the cut because the edges are now easier to grab. And I like that the cards are marked with the same binary system found on Legends V1. But I still haven't figured out how to spot the suits. Can anyone tell me?

Took me a bit to figure out, look right below where the value of the card is marked.

Got mine recently and I love these cards, very high quality great design beautiful tuck box and the marking system is easy to read. 

[ecNate]

I've received my decks.
Beside the tuck box (very well done) I really like the cut because the edges are now easier to grab. And I like that the cards are marked with the same binary system found on Legends V1. But I still haven't figured out how to spot the suits. Can anyone tell me?

Let's not post here though so the googlers and lurkers don't find out and the secret gets out and ruins it for all of us.  I'll just mention that it's been pointed out that the 8oC and 9oC have the same number markings which kind of ruins it, but you can work that into your routine or maybe add your own additional mark on the 9oC for clarity.  As for the suits, yeah, the answer is LITERALLY right next to where you were looking for the numbers.     Just look close and compare, you'll see it.  I'm trying to come up with a mnemonic device to remember what each means though.  Yeah, it's only 4 to remember, but something to help me learn will help.

[Nurul]

I don't have Egyptian legends yet, but if the marking system is the same as the V1s then there's already a topic where the secrets and clues have been revealed

http://www.playingcardforum.com/index.php?topic=3640.0

[ruicorreia]

Thank you ecNate and Nurul. I'll look better.

[ecNate]

I don't have Egyptian legends yet, but if the marking system is the same as the V1s then there's already a topic where the secrets and clues have been revealed

http://www.playingcardforum.com/index.php?topic=3640.0

If you have a smart phone and have a QR Code Reader app, look close at your box too.   

[Nurul]

Thank you ecNate and Nurul. I'll look better.

Not a problem, it's a pretty lengthy discussion :p think they start getting revealed around page 12 or so

[ecNate]

Where was the quality control on this one?  The 8oC and 9oC have same markings, but then the 10oC shows as 9, J as 10, Q as J, KoC is back to accurate.  What else is screwed up???

Great, I now have a deck that can't be used for tricks and can't be used for poker because it's marked.  I guess I have a pair of cardistry and child game decks now.  Maybe I'll just add them to the collection, they still look nice.

[bruh man]

Where was the quality control on this one?  The 8oC and 9oC have same markings, but then the 10oC shows as 9, J as 10, Q as J, KoC is back to accurate.  What else is screwed up???

Great, I now have a deck that can't be used for tricks and can't be used for poker because it's marked.  I guess I have a pair of cardistry and child game decks now.  Maybe I'll just add them to the collection, they still look nice.

Oh wow, you're right. That is really disappointing because I really liked these decks too, what a shame.  Has this been brought to their attention?
 

[ecNate]

Where was the quality control on this one?  The 8oC and 9oC have same markings, but then the 10oC shows as 9, J as 10, Q as J, KoC is back to accurate.  What else is screwed up???

Great, I now have a deck that can't be used for tricks and can't be used for poker because it's marked.  I guess I have a pair of cardistry and child game decks now.  Maybe I'll just add them to the collection, they still look nice.

Oh wow, you're right. That is really disappointing because I really liked these decks too, what a shame.  Has this been brought to their attention?

Yeah, I posted in their official thread here and also submitted a comment on their website.  I did check all the other numbers and suits and they are fine, but I haven't figured out the rest of the clues to know if anything else is off.

I suppose a person could manually mark the 9oC and then just remember to add one to the marked 9 and then also remember to add one to the claimed 10oC, JoC and QoC, but when sleight of hand and quickness is part of the process that just adds another step and potential to be exposed.  I really don't understand how they didn't have somebody 'proof read' the cards before going to print.  "Commitment to Quality" eh? 

[Legends P.C.C.]

Dear Nate,

Thank you for your email to us and for purchasing your Legends #202 Egyptian Edition decks. First off, we are more than happy to refund your order if you are unhappy with your decks. We feel for what you pay they are excellent value, 3D foiling, embossing, interior foil, etc. We may print future editions but the first edition will always be a first edition!

This deck has not been advertised as having any sort of marking system, nor do we say they are regulation decks for gaming. These are decks for collectors and card enthusiasts who appreciate quality and exquisite artwork. If you happen to find you can read the backs, then this an extra bonus! While you may have found two cards that are identical, keep in mind there is a lot more to markings than meets the eye. We recommend you pick up Casino Game Protection by Steven L. Forte for an informative read.

Again, we feel the #202 Egyptian Edition of Legends are a hallmark in printing and packaging design. You are free to disagree, and if you don't like your Egyptian Legends deck we will gladly refund your order if you are unhappy with your purchase.

Thank you and stay in touch for some very special releases coming soon!

[Don Boyer]

Would somebody kindly post photos of just what the heck it is they're talking about?  I'd like to give these "marks" a look-see myself and I don't happen to own the decks.

[Anthony]

Would somebody kindly post photos of just what the heck it is they're talking about?  I'd like to give these "marks" a look-see myself and I don't happen to own the decks.

I'm not sure myself Don, I don't remember a marking system being mentioned, but here's a scan.

[HolyJJ]

Yes, it is possible to identify cards... but there's more to the #202 Legends back design than just a card identification system. It's a work of genius!

A few weeks on, and God knows how many thousands of riffle shuffles later, they still handle brilliantly.

I've actually given away my Bee Casino decks to my cousins, because in comparison to the #202 Legends, the Bees feel cheap and 3rd rate.

[bruh man]

Yes, it is possible to identify cards... but there's more to the #202 Legends back design than just a card identification system. It's a work of genius!

A few weeks on, and God knows how many thousands of riffle shuffles later, they still handle brilliantly.

I've actually given away my Bee Casino decks to my cousins, because in comparison to the #202 Legends, the Bees feel cheap and 3rd rate.

They are very nice cards, everything I've purchased from LPCC has been top notch. 

[ecNate]

Dear Nate,

Thank you for your email to us and for purchasing your Legends #202 Egyptian Edition decks. First off, we are more than happy to refund your order if you are unhappy with your decks. We feel for what you pay they are excellent value, 3D foiling, embossing, interior foil, etc. We may print future editions but the first edition will always be a first edition!

This deck has not been advertised as having any sort of marking system, nor do we say they are regulation decks for gaming. These are decks for collectors and card enthusiasts who appreciate quality and exquisite artwork. If you happen to find you can read the backs, then this an extra bonus! While you may have found two cards that are identical, keep in mind there is a lot more to markings than meets the eye. We recommend you pick up Casino Game Protection by Steven L. Forte for an informative read.

Again, we feel the #202 Egyptian Edition of Legends are a hallmark in printing and packaging design. You are free to disagree, and if you don't like your Egyptian Legends deck we will gladly refund your order if you are unhappy with your purchase.

Thank you and stay in touch for some very special releases coming soon!

First, thanks for the prompt reply and I appreciate the refund offer.  However, I personally won't be utilizing it since I also am a collector and they are still nice, so while I'm VERY dissapointed they still have some value to me, certainly more than the hassle of trying to return them. I still think they are very nice from a collector perspective, but was really looking forward to the added features and justified buying a set over other known marked decks because of them being great quality, collector items and great likelihood of being marked.

My main concern was 2 parts, 1) will there be a reprint to correct the issues and 2) are you making plans to improve quality control in the future?  Neither of these were directly answered with any certainty and I'm quite concerned about the quality control on the markings since it took me just a few minutes for me to review them all and for all the markings it should have taken somebody who knew all the details under an hour to validate, but clearly this was not done.  This does raise questions in my mind about the entire QA process and without assurance I would hesitate to buy another deck, especially one in this series.

Also, to state "This deck has not been advertised as having any sort of marking system" is really a cop out.  Clearly it was implied with a wink and a nudge since the earlier decks included markings and it was stated "debuting with this deck are other features to be revealed in coming months. As usual, these decks are full of hidden treasure to discover!" and there are references to magic a few times.  More importantly, it WAS included, but not properly implemented or much of an attempt to validate.

As for "nor do we say they are regulation decks for gaming".  That's almost worse, you can't have it both ways.  I should also point out that they are called "playing cards" and not "collector" or "magician".  I'm not supposed to read into what is said about being marked, but at the same time I am supposed to read in that they can't be used for games?  I would suggest making this more clear in the future for the benefit of others.

Again, none of this is that big of a deal beyond that I simply wanted to know if there will be a reprint and is the lack of quality control prior to printing being addressed.  Your responses caused me to bring up other points, but I'll be keeping the decks.  With time I can make the flawed markings work and yes I have found a few other hidden features.  I also will consider buying from Legends and any in the 'mystery/magic' feature space, but only if I know the concerns over these errors is being taken seriously.  At the moment it seems nobody cares.

[bamabenz]

I believe that the Discource Agent's reply tells us more about LPCC than it does about these playing cards. Its a sloppy piece of work, no matter what you may think about the design or handling of the cards. A hallmark of printing and design...sheeesh. And the bit about special releases coming down the pipe -- will they be as 'special' as this deck?

I don't mean to be snarky, but this response is worse than the original mistake. LPCC is telling us that 'we sell art decks'. Don't expect them to be usable for any purpose other than admiring the pretty tuck.

And then to recommend that we pick-up a copy of a book that's been out-of-print for years and costs several hundreds of dollars used.
Gosh. Just gosh.

/bama

[Don Boyer]

Would somebody kindly post photos of just what the heck it is they're talking about?  I'd like to give these "marks" a look-see myself and I don't happen to own the decks.

I'm not sure myself Don, I don't remember a marking system being mentioned, but here's a scan.

Now I just need a scan of one of the cards in question for comparison.  It doesn't sound to me like there's an intentional marking system in there, but I can't really tell without more of a sample to look at.

The biggest question: does the deck pass the riffle test?  Because that's how the first Legends marking system was discovered.

And then to recommend that we pick-up a copy of a book that's been out-of-print for years and costs several hundreds of dollars used.
Gosh. Just gosh.

/bama

Actually, Bamabenz, that book - and the DVD series - are still considered the standard today for casino game protection.  The DVDs are probably cheaper and easier to understand, since a drawing or a photo doesn't really hold a candle to seeing cheating moves in action.

But, to the point - I see this as being much simpler than is being assumed by some.  EcNate spotted something on his deck and it upset him.  The maker of the deck offered to give him a refund.  Are they being a little "hedgey" when saying there's no advertised marking system BUT they're not "regulation decks for gaming?"  Sure, but the VAST majority of custom decks aren't "regulation decks for gaming," especially if by "gaming" you actually mean "casino gaming".  Legends version 1 had no advertised marking system and weren't regulation either!  Sure, the marks were there, but they only hinted at the existence of hidden features, leaving the buyer to discover them - and leaving non-magicians out of the loop altogether, as it should be.

All we have, it seems, is a discovered, unadvertised feature, one that the company doesn't want to flat-out state as fact because they're trying to keep secret features SECRET.  I might personally disagree with the logic behind the waffling, but I can certainly understand it and respect it.  A magician using such a deck doesn't necessarily want it being advertised all over the place as a trick deck having such-and-such features, because in the age of the Internet, very little information remains a secret for long.

So, guys - this now means you have a "treasure hunt" on your hands!  If you discovered one hidden feature, knowing what was done for the original Legends, there's a fine chance there's more!  Patience and careful examination could reap a nice little payoff of information to the person who finds it.

In fact, I believe I've spotted a pair of possible one-way marks!  And I only looked very briefly at a single card back, the one posted by Anthony!

[Anthony]

All right, here are some of the cards in question.......

[Don Boyer]

So where are the supposed marks everyone all up in arms about?  I'm not seeing any differences from card to card and I can't exactly do a riffle test with a photo.

[shadowkat]

So where are the supposed marks everyone all up in arms about?  I'm not seeing any differences from card to card and I can't exactly do a riffle test with a photo.

Take a look at Anubis. 

[ozfan30]

It is the ripples on Anubis' shoulder. It reads as 10, 9, 8, 8. I haven't figured the suit indicator yet, but the last two are marked the same.

[Don Boyer]

If someone would zoom in and circle the area in question, I'd appreciate it - I'm still not spotting it.

[Card Player]

If someone would zoom in and circle the area in question, I'd appreciate it - I'm still not spotting it.

I don't either. Anubis's shoulder ripples look the same on all 4 cards.  I'm younger then DON, so my eye's are still good. lol

[ozfan30]

Here is one of the sections zoomed in, a bit blurry but maybe you can make it out now.

[Card Player]

Here is one of the sections zoomed in, a bit blurry but maybe you can make it out now.

A marking system so undetectable, even its user wont see it. lol

I still don't see it. I thought the idea of a marking system was to be able to use it without the spectator noticing. If it is there as you say, pulling the cards up to your face to see, gives having a marking system pointless. Easy giveaway!   

[ozfan30]

The 4 lines are assigned a value 1, 2. 4, 8. The top one as you see extends to the edge on both, so the value is at least 8, the next two don't extend close to the edge so you don't add 2 or 4 to 8. But the one on the left (in the zoomed in photo) has the bottom line slightly bolder and extending further meaning you add 1 to 8, so it should be a 9 while the one on the right only has the 8 indicator.

Hopefully this makes sense, it is subtle, but once you know it is there you can notice it easier

[Anthony]

I see it, but no offense to anyone, that's a bit of a stretch on the eyes as a marking system. I'm not much for using marked cards, while I do have them in my collection, but like Don, the eyes are getting older, but unlike Madison's marking system or even the Mechanic's deck, I can see those and SEE the card value without hesitation.........as long as I have my readers on that is, lol.

As mentioned a marking system should just be a question of understanding the system, not a struggle seeing it. Again, no offense, but are people "seeing" something that isn't there?

I'm going to punt on this one, no marking system was advertised, but "Secrets" were...........make of it what you will, the cards are still beautiful.

[Fess]

When you riffle them it looks kinda like the dog is breathing. It's a pretty cool little animation, well I like it anyway. I'm not a magician my card control is no where near that pace and I don't use these for poker. These are strictly for my enjoyment and in my collection. I love the decks though, they're a lot of fun.

[ecNate]

As mentioned a marking system should just be a question of understanding the system, not a struggle seeing it. Again, no offense, but are people "seeing" something that isn't there?

It takes me just a few seconds to read it and another glance to read the suit at natural handling distance.  The system was explained above and is really easy if you understand binary.  I checked every single card and only those that I listed earlier were wrong.  I'm not imagining it, come on now.  Their secret website points to this as well using ribs' and is the same coding as the previous deck.

I like to use custom cards for poker and other games, but using these would mean I'm a cheat and it's quite more difficult to read, decode and then remember which ones are wrong or look for personal mark.  Yeah, they are still nice and serve other purposes, but again the response I got was not acceptable.  A simple "sorry, we screwed up, but will make sure we improve quality and checks in the future" would have been wonderful.  I would have also loved to hear "yes, we will make sure the v2 printed possible later this year will be accurate".  At that point I would gladly BUY another one for use and keep these in the collection, I don't want a refund, I don't need to explain and prove that I'm not making it up.  Mistakes happen, I full understand.  The issue is they know, they don't care.

Agree, the animation can be cool so it is just a new feature I suppose.  Will I enjoy these anyhow?  Yes.  Will I buy another Legends deck or even one manufactured by them?  Not so sure now.   Will future decks have misprinted pips, colors, more serious flaws?  This is even more a concern since they don't own up to the fact that errors were made.

[Anthony]

By seeing, I didn't mean seeing the markings Nate, I can see those, I just meant "Seeing" as in wanting it to be a marking system rather than the animation mentioned, or something else.

Getting apologies for things like this aren't going to happen, especially if they never mentioned a marking system, but I do understand your frustration.

[doubledouble]

IANAM but I think the marking system could be used pretty easily. My vision isn't as good as I'd like it to be but i can pretty accurately identify the value from ~3 feet away and the suit from ~2 feet away. Good enough for up close magic, imo.

[Don Boyer]

By seeing, I didn't mean seeing the markings Nate, I can see those, I just meant "Seeing" as in wanting it to be a marking system rather than the animation mentioned, or something else.

Getting apologies for things like this aren't going to happen, especially if they never mentioned a marking system, but I do understand your frustration.

No, that "animation" is indeed a successful riffle test to detect a marked deck.  The basic system itself is identical to what was used on the first Legends decks.  I'd further wager that the shorter lines below it are indicators as to the suit in question.  The placement is no coincidence, either - the marks look as though they appear near the corners on the long edge of the card, making them easy to read in a spread, a fan or a hand of cards.

The marking system was NEVER a manufacturer-advertised feature of the first deck, and it's clearly not an advertised feature of this deck, though it's indeed present.  It would seem to be something that was meant to be discovered, as were a number of the features included in the first deck - some of which, to my knowledge, were never discovered (or the discoverers kept it secret, for their personal advantage)!

So it's that simple, really - the deck has at least one unadvertised feature.  I know of a few decks where this was the case, including one that was recently told to me that I've NEVER heard anyone else mention anywhere!  The deck in question wasn't the most popular deck made, but my source told me that it does actually conceal a number of secrets, one of which being a marking system.  These things happen and the LPCC official line on this is that they will neither confirm nor deny the existence of this feature - and possibly many others - which means that those who discover them will be the ones who get to use them.

[Msp062]

Do these decks have the same "thick" numbers on one end of the card, like the legends do?

[Magic_Orthodoxy]

from their own website...

The back design is elegant and the Egyptian motif lends itself to a number of presentational possibilities, as well as incorporating some clever systems that may subtly assist the magician in some of his endeavors.

and yes, it has thick and thin pips

[fenderdemon]

The path to enlightenment is dotted with clues.

[Card Player]

The path to enlightenment is dotted with clues.

Only the penitent man shall pass

[Don Boyer]

Well, we know it's marked for value/suit.  It's probably got a one-way mark on the back but I haven't spotted it.  It has the thick/thin indices, acting as a one-way mark on the faces.

Are we missing anything?

Just got mine yesterday, ordered from Expert.  Very nice deck.  I'm also a big fan of the Classic Twins - smooth as silk.

[fenderdemon]

The path to enlightenment is dotted with clues.

Only the penitent man shall pass

Paper ribs offer support.

[fenderdemon]

Well, we know it's marked for value/suit.  It's probably got a one-way mark on the back but I haven't spotted it.  It has the thick/thin indices, acting as a one-way mark on the faces.

Are we missing anything?

Just got mine yesterday, ordered from Expert.  Very nice deck.  I'm also a big fan of the Classic Twins - smooth as silk.

If you like the Classic Twins, you'd fall in love with Royal Zen. A true work of art, IMO.

Serpentine are Gnostic are also wonderful decks, as well. Apparently the Serpentine deck is made of an experimental paper stock.

[Card Player]

The path to enlightenment is dotted with clues.

Only the penitent man shall pass

Paper ribs offer support.

Infinity waits at heaven's gate.

[HolyJJ]

There is a one way marking on the back design. I usually spot all markings within minutes, but I have to admit that I missed the one way markings totally -- I only spotted it after something like 3 weeks!

"Only the penitent man shall pass", is the relevant clue!

[Don Boyer]

The path to enlightenment is dotted with clues.

Only the penitent man shall pass

Paper ribs offer support.

Infinity waits at heaven's gate.

Go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with smelly finger...
(I don't think I've said that for over thirty years...)

Just remember that "Jehovah" starts with an "I"...

Wait - this ISN'T the "Pearls of Mystic Wisdom" topic?

[Fess]

I started to wonder if there was a new new Egyptian Legends deck, and if I was just out of the loop haha.

[fenderdemon]

The path to enlightenment is dotted with clues.

Only the penitent man shall pass

Paper ribs offer support.

Infinity waits at heaven's gate.

Golden ratio at white borders wait.

[fenderdemon]

The path to enlightenment is dotted with clues.

Only the penitent man shall pass

Paper ribs offer support.

Infinity waits at heaven's gate.

Go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with smelly finger...
(I don't think I've said that for over thirty years...)

Just remember that "Jehovah" starts with an "I"...

Wait - this ISN'T the "Pearls of Mystic Wisdom" topic?

Oh, man. That's disgusting!!! Haha......😜 ♠️

[Card Player]

The path to enlightenment is dotted with clues.

Only the penitent man shall pass

Paper ribs offer support.

Infinity waits at heaven's gate.

Golden ratio at white borders wait.

See the world in a grain of sand.

@ Don: lol Its all relevant to the subject.

I hope you wash your hands before shaking someone else's?

[Don Boyer]

OK, kidding aside, do we have the original source of all these cryptic terms floating around somewhere?  It could be relevant.

[Card Player]

OK, kidding aside, do we have the original source of all these cryptic terms floating around somewhere?  It could be relevant.

http://legendsplayingcards.com/pages/a6q6wz

This is old though. I believe this was the original secret to obtain Sharps.

[Don Boyer]

OK, kidding aside, do we have the original source of all these cryptic terms floating around somewhere?  It could be relevant.

http://legendsplayingcards.com/pages/a6q6wz

This is old though. I believe this was the original secret to obtain Sharps.

Yeah, but were the secrets all found?

[fenderdemon]

OK, kidding aside, do we have the original source of all these cryptic terms floating around somewhere?  It could be relevant.

http://legendsplayingcards.com/pages/a6q6wz

This is old though. I believe this was the original secret to obtain Sharps.

Yeah, but were the secrets all found?

Not to my knowledge.

I was one of the "few", for want of a better word, who was given the link to the Sharps cards by Lawrence, long before they became public knowledge.

Digressing from the Egyptian theme, the Zen Pure Gold Foil Reserves are provocative, to say the least, IMHO. I received mine a couple of weeks ago. Absolutely stunning, in every way.

[DarkDerp]

The secret is unglue the tuck case and there will be hieroglyphs and a visit us legendsplayingcardco.com. Look online and the glyphs translate to sharps. Sharps added to the end of legendsplatingcardco.com/ was the link to buy the sharps.

[Don Boyer]

The secret is unglue the tuck case and there will be hieroglyphs and a visit us legendsplayingcardco.com. Look online and the glyphs translate to sharps. Sharps added to the end of legendsplatingcardco.com/ was the link to buy the sharps.

Did you know that legendsplayingcardco.com redirects to legendsplayingcards.com?

So this means that legendsplayingcards.com/sharps was the one you used?  (Which now leads to the equivalent of a 404 error...)

[DarkDerp]

I think that link then forwarded to legendsplayingcards.com/products/sharps which has been renamed privatereserve.