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Flame Fractals in Spades (KS)

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Flame Fractals in Spades (KS)
« on: April 28, 2014, 08:27:30 AM »
 

badpete69

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Get your rose colored glasses for this one hehehe. Seriously though I am a little intrigue. Will invite Stanley to swing by and talk about his deck

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/221524246/flame-fractals-in-spades















« Last Edit: April 28, 2014, 08:31:47 AM by badpete69 »
 

Re: Flame Fractals in Spades (KS)
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2014, 09:27:04 AM »
 

BeDoubleYou

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Very cool looking. Just not sure if it's a must buy.
 

Re: Flame Fractals in Spades (KS)
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2014, 09:50:12 AM »
 

Afrank8

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I'd definitely be interested in seeing if this guy has an interest in math, or whether it's more the intricate patterns that's drawn him to this design.
 

Re: Flame Fractals in Spades (KS)
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2014, 10:39:15 AM »
 

John B.

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I'd definitely be interested in seeing if this guy has an interest in math, or whether it's more the intricate patterns that's drawn him to this design.

Did LSD fuel his art? lol Looks kinda cool but not my thing
Do you guys even read this? Like I could have the meaning of life here and I doubt you would know it.
 

Re: Flame Fractals in Spades (KS)
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2014, 11:13:10 AM »
 

K

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Did LSD fuel his art? lol Looks kinda cool but not my thing

My thoughts exactly! Cluttered, would be a bitch to print, downright ugly, playing a game would probably cause serve headaches, the list goes on...
« Last Edit: April 28, 2014, 11:13:24 AM by K »
Stalking the forums, I'm in that corner!
 

Re: Flame Fractals in Spades (KS)
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2014, 11:55:31 AM »
 

CthulhuWho1

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I'm pledged for the deck and DVD on this one.

Not because I plan to use these for card games, but because I'm a fan of Fractal imagery, playing cards, and from Indiana (as is the Creator of this project).

I've been fascinated by Fractal Landscapes for decades, and the Electrical Engineering and Computer Scientist background of Stanley Weddington (the Creator of this project) intrigued me enough to pledge; even though I don't know how he'll produce 500 decks plus shipping for $1100.

Will Hart
Fullerton, California
 

Re: Flame Fractals in Spades (KS)
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2014, 12:49:23 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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I'm pledged for the deck and DVD on this one.

Not because I plan to use these for card games, but because I'm a fan of Fractal imagery, playing cards, and from Indiana (as is the Creator of this project).

I've been fascinated by Fractal Landscapes for decades, and the Electrical Engineering and Computer Scientist background of Stanley Weddington (the Creator of this project) intrigued me enough to pledge; even though I don't know how he'll produce 500 decks plus shipping for $1100.

Will Hart
Fullerton, California

Some of the low-end printers will give you the decks cheaply enough, but I'm wondering about this.  It doesn't look like he'd have enough to cover postage as well, unless he's getting the decks insanely cheap.  And I can practically guarantee you now that unless he's got some amazing printer he's working with (unlikely at these prices), a lot of the card image details will be lost in the crossover from digital to physical.
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Re: Flame Fractals in Spades (KS)
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2014, 12:56:18 PM »
 

badpete69

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He has not replied to me yet on KS. Maybe mentioning Don to him scared him off hehehe..    JK buddy

EDIT: Stan will stop by later today and post a comment
« Last Edit: April 28, 2014, 01:21:40 PM by badpete69 »
 

Re: Flame Fractals in Spades (KS)
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2014, 02:18:44 PM »
 

PrincessTrouble

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I'm pledged for the deck and DVD on this one.

Not because I plan to use these for card games, but because I'm a fan of Fractal imagery, playing cards, and from Indiana (as is the Creator of this project).


I pledged for a deck too because I'm a fan of fractals.  I did an undergrad thesis on fractal geometry many years ago (computer science major and math minor).

 

Re: Flame Fractals in Spades (KS)
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2014, 02:50:06 PM »
 

CordedTires

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I pledged for a deck too because I'm a fan of fractals.  I did an undergrad thesis on fractal geometry many years ago (computer science major and math minor).

The high-res versions are amazing, and I'm willing to put up with some loss of that, so I signed up too. I was physics and math, and I remember when fractals got popular.

Not to mention the psychedelic stuff......
 

Re: Flame Fractals in Spades (KS)
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2014, 04:23:40 PM »
 

StanKindLee

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Hello All - I am the creator o the "Flame Fractals in Spades" Kickstarter project.  I was kindly invited here to give some insight on the card deck and answer question you might have... so here goes.

Where did the idea of the deck come from?  A combination of a few things - (1) I have read the Tarot for many years using the Crowley deck and have always had an interest in re-creating the "feel" of the Crowley deck's artwork using both hand drawn illustrations and fractal artwork.  I can handle the fractal side, but have been searching for awhile for an illustrator to help me with the deck... having finally found one, we are now in the process of making it happen.  As a lead in to the Tarot deck, I wanted to cut my teeth by producing a deck of standard playing cards first.  Which flows to (2) I stumbled upon a means of making a standard deck of card using custom artwork for the backs on the Zazzle website.  I tried it out, and not only did I like the results, all the folks that I have shown the deck to not only liked it, but wanted one for themselves.  And finally (3), wanting to keep the basically successful theme of my last couple of Kickstarter projects, I wanted to give away a lot of fractal art and expand the audience of the art at the same time.  Noticing that playing card decks are popular as Kickstarter projects (I never even knew about the card collectors and cardistry and magic side of things - I just though people used cards to play games), I combined the art and the card deck into one project, all in an effort to help towards the funding needed for an upcoming featured artist exhibit which run the entire month of August.  One more thing, especially to those who like fractals - since 2010 I have been an independent contributor to the Electric Sheep project, and all of the fractals used for this project have been live sheep in the flock between 2010 and 2014.  If you do not have the free screensaver (Mac, Windows or Linux) on your desktop machine, you are missing out.  It is the easiest way to continually receive  new ever changing fractal artwork from myself and the other contributors to the project - not to mention the sheep created by the dedicated group of the project's shepherds.

Do I like math?  I am good at programming math, but what I really like is what math can do - in all areas of life, not just art.  I use Flam3 software to generate the flame fractals, and my software background allows me to tweek the open source software to achieve my desired results, especially in the animation of the fractals.  So I tend to daydream of the perfect math equation to achieve an artistic goal before manipulating the mathematic of the software.

Why am I an artist and not an engineer today?  About 15 years ago I woke up in Israel with the realization that not only was I working with/for the largest military industrial complex of that country, but I was also missing out on the most formative years of my daughter's life.  I quite engineering, became a soap maker and gardener and starting a whole new life direction peddling at farmer's markets and the like.

Does psychedelia influence my art?  Yes, I followed the Grateful Dead around the US and Europe from 1979 to 1995 - but really, it was all about the music.

Am I on drugs when I create my art?  No, I am not.

Who is printing the card deck?  WJ Playing Cards out of Shenzhen, China.  Though they are big with corporations like Coca Cola for promotional decks, I found that their higher quality decks were quite good (if not better) when compared to samples from US domestic printers.  The exception of course was USPCC printed decks, but their timing on delivery was beyond the goal of the project, so they were a non-starter for this one.

Why is the funding goal so low?  I play Kickstarter like a game... after my first 2 projects went unfunded, I realized I had to play the game differently.  My last 2 projects which were successfully funded reached about 250% of goal, as I anticipate this one will land at - which is plenty of funding to get the decks printed and shipped out, with enough left over to obtain the equipment (video screens, players & projectors) needed for my gallery exhibition.  The exhibition IS GOING TO HAPPEN regardless of the funding results of this project, so with that in mind, I set a funding goal that will at least get the decks printed. I will cover the shipping cost if the project is just funded with no extra money above and beyond.  This is still okay, since I will have decks in hand that will sell at full retail in the gallery and my other distribution avenues.

I have said my blurb, so if anyone has question I can answer, just ask.  Note, I have very limited Internet access at times, so quick responses are not always possible, but I will respond as time allows.

Also, any feedback is welcome - I want this project to be the best it can be.

Thanks,
Stan
 

Re: Flame Fractals in Spades (KS)
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2014, 06:34:19 PM »
 

badpete69

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Stan  Welcome to our forums. It is good to have you. Thanks for accepting my invite to come and make some comments.  good luck with your project

Pierre
 

Re: Flame Fractals in Spades (KS)
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2014, 01:01:29 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Ditto for me, Stan, I'm glad you're here as well.

Could you show us some samples of the print work from the printer you've chosen?  In particular, any playing cards that have a high level of fine detail, similar to your fractal designs.  We're all familiar with the big names in card printing, but the little companies like this one are unknown to us.  We've all seen cases where what the artist sees on his screen and what comes out of the printer aren't necessarily the same thing.  With a sample to show us, you may find more people willing to take a chance and invest in your work printed by an unknown company to us if the sample detail work printed with a high-enough resolution.  The handling of a deck like this is actually less of an issue - people get a deck like this more for the artwork than for performing magic, cardistry, gambling sleights, etc., thus the performance isn't as critical of a feature.
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Re: Flame Fractals in Spades (KS)
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2014, 11:16:50 AM »
 

StanKindLee

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Here are high res scans of the card printing detail.  This particular sample would be the closest to the detail involved in the fractal art.  It was printed on a non-embossed paper stock, but I believe the printing quality would be the same since the embossing/finish is added after printing.
 

Re: Flame Fractals in Spades (KS)
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2014, 11:33:45 AM »
 

Rose

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Original concept. Thanks for all the information and answers to questions.
 

Re: Flame Fractals in Spades (KS)
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2014, 07:52:05 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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I could be mistaken, but that looks like it was printed without a printing press.  I think they're using a type of printer like what you'd find in a copy shop or something like that.

Is it possible to get them to make a test print of some of the fractal designs?  Not a big print run, just an uncut sheet so you can see the detail they're capable of?

You may want to check out possible alternative printers, if they're not capable of making a clear print of the fractals.  I just look at those dots and think there's no way that a fractal will look that good.

The Expert Playing Card Co. (EPCC) has a "Discourse Agent" and a sticky topic here on this board and they do excellent work at reasonable prices.  Some of our favorite decks came from their printing plant in Taipei.
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Re: Flame Fractals in Spades (KS)
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2014, 02:19:14 AM »
 

PurpleIce

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I honestly do not know what to say about this deck. It looks kinda nice, yet at the same time seems like blinding my eyes. Maybe if i knew more about fractal design it would help.

The only thing i know what to say is i do not like the solid background for the indices. i understand it makes identifying the indices much easier, but i feel it spoils the overall image of the card as a whole. (And i seriously doubt anyone will play poker with this unless high on drugs.) Just thought it might look better if the solid box was dropped and use higher contrasting indices would look much better.
 

Re: Flame Fractals in Spades (KS)
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2014, 06:24:11 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I honestly do not know what to say about this deck. It looks kinda nice, yet at the same time seems like blinding my eyes. Maybe if i knew more about fractal design it would help.

The only thing i know what to say is i do not like the solid background for the indices. i understand it makes identifying the indices much easier, but i feel it spoils the overall image of the card as a whole. (And i seriously doubt anyone will play poker with this unless high on drugs.) Just thought it might look better if the solid box was dropped and use higher contrasting indices would look much better.

I'm of the opposite opinion.  Indices should be easy to read, and in this riot of color, those little "islands" of easy-to-read characters are important.  You need indices to be easily identified for any gaming use of playing cards and for most magic applications.
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Re: Flame Fractals in Spades (KS)
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2014, 10:42:17 AM »
 

StanKindLee

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Don,
Your comments sent me off on an evening of scanning, measuring, comparing and the like for all the card samples I have received as well as some of my art that I know was printed using various copy shop technologies and standard 4 color printing presses.  By the time my eyes could no longer focus on the dots (way later in the night than normal for me) I reached the following conclusions - (1) I think the card sample that I posted scans of was done on a printing press because the general dot geometry matches that of other press printed artwork, (2) the dot geometry of the copy shop printed material is obviously different than that of a 4 color litho press; the actual resolution was better in some cases, though the color accuracy did suffer quite a bit, (3) I have a feeling that the scanned card sample posted did accurately reproduce the artwork provided to the printer, but the initial artwork might not have been optimal due to the fact that the original was a hand drawn piece of art which might have been marginally reproduced and then down-sampled, (4) the printing registration of the posted scan was no worse than the card sample of my artwork printed by USPCC.

I definitely agree that that a sample printing of my artwork should be obtained from the printer - which is something I can get based on communications with the printer.


PurpleIce,
Your words kinda echos those of the little man on my right shoulder, while the little man on my left shoulder tends toward Don's position.  I see the indices background as splatting a glob of day onto a starry night sky.  In playing around a bit, I think I found something that works for both positions... using just 2 colors on the indices (blue for hearts and diamonds & green for clubs and spades) and using the other 2 colors as a stroke around the indices (red for hearts and diamonds & dark grey for clubs and spades) to pop them off the fractal artwork.  So far, that card design with a dark grey border is the most appealing to my eye, and still leaves the cards playable.  I'm posting an image of what this design would look like.


Please keep the comments and suggestions coming, they are very valuable.
 

Re: Flame Fractals in Spades (KS)
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2014, 11:16:51 AM »
 

PurpleIce

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Don,
Your comments sent me off on an evening of scanning, measuring, comparing and the like for all the card samples I have received as well as some of my art that I know was printed using various copy shop technologies and standard 4 color printing presses.  By the time my eyes could no longer focus on the dots (way later in the night than normal for me) I reached the following conclusions - (1) I think the card sample that I posted scans of was done on a printing press because the general dot geometry matches that of other press printed artwork, (2) the dot geometry of the copy shop printed material is obviously different than that of a 4 color litho press; the actual resolution was better in some cases, though the color accuracy did suffer quite a bit, (3) I have a feeling that the scanned card sample posted did accurately reproduce the artwork provided to the printer, but the initial artwork might not have been optimal due to the fact that the original was a hand drawn piece of art which might have been marginally reproduced and then down-sampled, (4) the printing registration of the posted scan was no worse than the card sample of my artwork printed by USPCC.

I definitely agree that that a sample printing of my artwork should be obtained from the printer - which is something I can get based on communications with the printer.


PurpleIce,
Your words kinda echos those of the little man on my right shoulder, while the little man on my left shoulder tends toward Don's position.  I see the indices background as splatting a glob of day onto a starry night sky.  In playing around a bit, I think I found something that works for both positions... using just 2 colors on the indices (blue for hearts and diamonds & green for clubs and spades) and using the other 2 colors as a stroke around the indices (red for hearts and diamonds & dark grey for clubs and spades) to pop them off the fractal artwork.  So far, that card design with a dark grey border is the most appealing to my eye, and still leaves the cards playable.  I'm posting an image of what this design would look like.


Please keep the comments and suggestions coming, they are very valuable.

I think the new design looks much better. Of course the solid background is still much easier to read, but this is a very nice change in my point of view. Still clearly visible but not sticking out like a sore thumb. +++  :D
 

Re: Flame Fractals in Spades (KS)
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2014, 04:04:12 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Don,
Your comments sent me off on an evening of scanning, measuring, comparing and the like for all the card samples I have received as well as some of my art that I know was printed using various copy shop technologies and standard 4 color printing presses.  By the time my eyes could no longer focus on the dots (way later in the night than normal for me) I reached the following conclusions - (1) I think the card sample that I posted scans of was done on a printing press because the general dot geometry matches that of other press printed artwork, (2) the dot geometry of the copy shop printed material is obviously different than that of a 4 color litho press; the actual resolution was better in some cases, though the color accuracy did suffer quite a bit, (3) I have a feeling that the scanned card sample posted did accurately reproduce the artwork provided to the printer, but the initial artwork might not have been optimal due to the fact that the original was a hand drawn piece of art which might have been marginally reproduced and then down-sampled, (4) the printing registration of the posted scan was no worse than the card sample of my artwork printed by USPCC.

I definitely agree that that a sample printing of my artwork should be obtained from the printer - which is something I can get based on communications with the printer.

Getting a close look at a few of my own decks, yes, there's the dots, but they're really tiny.  I think seeing the magnification so large threw me off or something.  The only caveat in there is that your fractal work is MUCH more highly detailed than any hand-crafted and reproduced art pieces on playing cards could ever be.  Getting the detail and the color right will be a real challenge, I think, and if you want it done right, you'd want to use more than the standard four-color CMYK process.  For example, there's a classic vintage deck made by USPC called the "New Era" deck - even today it's still considered an exceptional work of art, employing twelve different colors of ink to get the colors completely accurate for the design, down to the flesh tones of the portraits found on the cards.
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Re: Flame Fractals in Spades (KS)
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2014, 06:01:20 PM »
 

StanKindLee

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... employing twelve different colors of ink to get the colors completely accurate for the design, down to the flesh tones of the portraits found on the cards.

Whoa, 12 different inks - I have to assume CMYK with 8 more spot colors... sounds like quite the registration challenge.  Fortunately for me using spot colors for fractal art printing is unnecessary unless trying to highlight a clearly defined (color-wise) aspect of the design.  I have worked with a local printer to produce some stunning prints using metallic inks mixed with the black.  Now you have me wanting to do a full sized giclée printing of what the uncut sheet would look like - on the Silverado metallic canvas I recently purchased.
 

Re: Flame Fractals in Spades (KS)
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2014, 06:14:36 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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... employing twelve different colors of ink to get the colors completely accurate for the design, down to the flesh tones of the portraits found on the cards.

Whoa, 12 different inks - I have to assume CMYK with 8 more spot colors... sounds like quite the registration challenge.  Fortunately for me using spot colors for fractal art printing is unnecessary unless trying to highlight a clearly defined (color-wise) aspect of the design.  I have worked with a local printer to produce some stunning prints using metallic inks mixed with the black.  Now you have me wanting to do a full sized giclée printing of what the uncut sheet would look like - on the Silverado metallic canvas I recently purchased.

That sounds like it might make for an awesome poster - but do bear in mind that the posters are cool but the collectors here also want an uncut sheet; they're not good substitutes for one.

I'm betting that the design was the most expensive made at the time.  Supposedly, the present holder of that record is the Machievelli set of Bicycle "Multicolor" decks, a standard Bicycle deck done with four suit colors and extra color on the cards, sold singly and in two-deck sets packed in Velcro-closing boxes that were black on the outside but came with four different solid-color interiors.  Even then, if you adjusted for inflation, I'd wager the New Era was still the more expensive to make of the two.  (Did I mention it had gilded edges?)

It's like how movies make so much money, but only because the cost of a ticket keeps increasing.  Movie attendance hasn't increased for many years, and if you counted strictly by attendance, the most successful movie of all time wasn't some blockbuster made in my lifetime, but instead was "Gone With the Wind" from 1939.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2014, 06:23:52 AM by Don Boyer »
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