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Game Party [KS]

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Game Party [KS]
« on: December 18, 2015, 07:05:11 PM »
 

Justin O.

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Art, magic & history combined! A set of 168 handy custom cards with the portraits of the US presidents in embossed boxes (by USPCC)

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/printlet/game-party-limited-set-of-168-custom-playing-cards/comments

Creator based out of New York, Featuring Presidents, Printed by USPCC but project fudning in British Pounds? Little odd..

Isn't this the deck Cardlover had in Design/dev under 'No Name Deck' with the discussion that got way out of hand?

« Last Edit: December 28, 2015, 06:35:43 PM by Justin O. »
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Re: Game Party
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2015, 01:52:41 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Art, magic & history combined! A set of 168 handy custom cards with the portraits of the US presidents in embossed boxes (by USPCC)

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/printlet/game-party-limited-set-of-168-custom-playing-cards/comments

Creator based out of New York, Featuring Presidents, Printed my USPCC but project fudning in British Pounds? Little odd..

Isn't this the deck Cardlover had in Design/dev under 'No Name Deck' with the discussion that got way out of hand?

He is indeed the creator of that train wreck of a project.  He got upset that he was losing his argument badly and just deleted all of his posts.  He chose to take my criticisms personally rather than do something about what I pointed out to him, and this hot, wet mess is the end result of that.  Here's a link to what's left of that topic.  You can still see much of what he said in my quotes, which he couldn't delete.

It's funny - he thinks putting indices further from the card edge PREVENTS flashing.  Sure, that's true - if you only have one card in your hand!  The wider border forces you to spread your hand wider to see all your indices - and THAT'S where flashing take place.  So many design flaws, so little time...

New York based company...  Possibly in name/mailing-address only.  The website link in his KS account goes to a 404 error at Google's URL shortener while printlet.com goes to the KS page.  He's from somewhere a bit further east, I think.  His FB profile states that he speaks Russian and Belorussian.  I get the feeling he's in Eastern Europe and knows that saying so will cast a pallor over the project with backers, assuming KS didn't just shut them down.  At least one team member is based in Britain - probably the guy who's account is on the project, since the project is in pounds sterling and not dollars or euros.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 01:53:30 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Game Party
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2015, 06:13:36 AM »
 

cardlover

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my USPCC
your USPCC? :D Can you clarify this a little bit for us?



I am on both United Cardists' forum and The Playing Card Forum that you list along with a number of other companies and organizations and I do not see anywhere on them that your deck .... Can you clarify this a little bit for me?
When I was working over my project I asked questions there, I created polls and received a lot of valuable advice and references which helped me to make a number of improvements. Now you can see my work. I made a serious improvements in comparison with the similar existing products. Are changed a lot of things.
That is why I am grateful to the above-mentioned resources. My mention of these sites is nothing more than "Thank you very much that you are exist. Thank you for helpful information and advice".
I can provide you the list of ANY references to topics which I created and in which I participated (in private message), if you need it
« Last Edit: December 24, 2015, 11:13:44 AM by cardlover »
During the last year I’ve working on my own deck. It's time to say thank you all very much for helpful information and advice! Thank you, PLAYING CARD FORUM that you are exist! This project started with your support!
Finally, our project on kickstarter
 

Re: Game Party
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2015, 08:22:00 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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When I was working over my project I asked questions there, I created polls and received a lot of valuable advice and references which helped me to make a number of improvements. Now you can see my work. I made a serious improvements in comparison with the similar existing products. Are changed a lot of things.
That is why I am grateful to the above-mentioned resources. My mention of these sites is nothing more than "Thank you very much that you are exist. Thank you for helpful information and advice".
I can provide you the list of ANY references to topics which I created and in which I participated (in private message), if you need it

For future reference, you might want to obtain permission from the owner of Playing Card Forum before using his website's name and logo in your campaign.  He's Tom Dawson, known here as 52plusjoker.  In fact, I'd check with him now to make sure it's OK - while he's generally an agreeable guy, if he disapproves of the usage, it could be bad.
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Re: Game Party
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2015, 11:28:54 AM »
 

Justin O.

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I am on both United Cardists' forum and The Playing Card Forum that you list along with a number of other companies and organizations and I do not see anywhere on them that your deck .... Can you clarify this a little bit for me?
When I was working over my project I asked questions there, I created polls and received a lot of valuable advice and references which helped me to make a number of improvements.

Hey Cardfool, I realized after posting that question that you were the Design/Dev poster that removed all of his posts on the topic, I feel like that was an honest mistake of me to make, but unfortunately, at least on my phone, from which I use Kickstarter, I wasn't able to go back into my comment and <delete> it.
Kickstarter completely revolutionized the way I waste money.

The people who handle playing cards are always in a world of delicate fingertip technology.
 

Re: Game Party
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2015, 06:15:42 PM »
 

Cardfool

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Hey Justin,

I have nothing to do with the Game Party project :-\...you must be referring to Cardlover ;)

Cheers,
Sherman
 

Re: Game Party
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2015, 07:02:13 PM »
 

Justin O.

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Hey Justin,

I have nothing to do with the Game Party project :-\...you must be referring to Cardlover ;)

Cheers,
Sherman

Dangit!!
And I thought my cheeky little jab was so clever... Egg on my face.
Kickstarter completely revolutionized the way I waste money.

The people who handle playing cards are always in a world of delicate fingertip technology.
 

Re: Game Party
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2015, 05:54:04 AM »
 

cardlover

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my USPCC
your USPCC? :D Can you clarify this a little bit for us?
« Last Edit: December 24, 2015, 11:13:28 AM by cardlover »
During the last year I’ve working on my own deck. It's time to say thank you all very much for helpful information and advice! Thank you, PLAYING CARD FORUM that you are exist! This project started with your support!
Finally, our project on kickstarter
 

Re: Game Party
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2015, 07:54:08 PM »
 

alvinhy

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my USPCC
your USPCC? :D Can you clarify this a little bit for us?

Obviously its "By USPCC" and its a typo.
I just went through the dev thread. And I must say, its probably the worst thing you can say that "you don't care".

Don is a great person and while he gives you ideas, he may sometimes come out offensive, but it is for your own good.
I have seen a lot of designers with so much ego they never listen, and even take things personally.

But yeh, from my personal experience, you should listen to what others say and care about your audience. I wouldn't have got to where I am currently if it weren't for the playing card community feedback. Thank god I was never so stuck up with my own design and ego, which obviously is what is happening here.

 

Re: Game Party
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2015, 11:14:22 AM »
 

cardlover

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And I must say, its probably the worst thing you can say that "you don't care".
I would agree with you if my phrase "I don't care" was not taken out of context

What did I mean "I don't care" in response to the false assumptions made by Don? I explained Don my position: I don't care of HIS speculations about my knowledge or  experience. I really don't care of HIS doubts whether my project will be launched on kickstarter. Is there a sense of care of such things?

"Do your duty, come what may"

But I do care of how to do my job and how to make the deck of cards better. And I do listen to other people's advice

I had no doubt because I have enough experience. And now you can take a sober view of my work

The problem is that conversation with Don went off the topic to false speculations. My poll was senselessly merged earlier with another topic and then was deleted. His further posts sounded disrespectful, as though he talked to the silly schoolchild

And he finds it possible to make references to this shameful fact. Such behavior is unacceptable for the professional

I don't regret about any of my words because I'm a polite person. Words and actions of Don forced me to regret that I began a conversation with him. I decided to delete that topic, but I have no such level of access and I edited out my posts. I am very disappointed with such attitude

Best Regards and Merry Christmas!
« Last Edit: December 25, 2015, 11:36:02 AM by cardlover »
During the last year I’ve working on my own deck. It's time to say thank you all very much for helpful information and advice! Thank you, PLAYING CARD FORUM that you are exist! This project started with your support!
Finally, our project on kickstarter
 

Re: Game Party [KS]
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2015, 08:02:40 PM »
 

Mr.parangot

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I like the back design. looks like something I would use to play. But I'm not a big fan of the indices. They are indeed a little to far away from the border. Would you also consider just a normal standard sized index?
merry christmas
 

Re: Game Party
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2015, 12:31:37 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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And I must say, its probably the worst thing you can say that "you don't care".
I would agree with you if my phrase "I don't care" was not taken out of context

What did I mean "I don't care" in response to the false assumptions made by Don? I explained Don my position: I don't care of HIS speculations about my knowledge or  experience. I really don't care of HIS doubts whether my project will be launched on kickstarter. Is there a sense of care of such things?

"Do your duty, come what may"

But I do care of how to do my job and how to make the deck of cards better. And I do listen to other people's advice

I had no doubt because I have enough experience. And now you can take a sober view of my work

The problem is that conversation with Don went off the topic to false speculations. My poll was senselessly merged earlier with another topic and then was deleted. His further posts sounded disrespectful, as though he talked to the silly schoolchild

And he finds it possible to make references to this shameful fact. Such behavior is unacceptable for the professional

I don't regret about any of my words because I'm a polite person. Words and actions of Don forced me to regret that I began a conversation with him. I decided to delete that topic, but I have no such level of access and I edited out my posts. I am very disappointed with such attitude

Best Regards and Merry Christmas!

Why are you posting here the exact same thing you posted in your Design/Dev topic for your deck?  You only need to post it in one place and link to it from the other - unless your goal is to annoy and bore people, in which case, kudos.

As I said there, there's no more sober view one can take of your project than its present state of affairs.  You're more than halfway through it with less than 25% of the goal pledged to create it.  The words I said didn't create this situation - it's your work and your work alone, because the vast majority of people on Kickstarter aren't hardcore deck collectors and don't even see what gets posted here.

Take the advice I gave you and use it.  Or not, since it's entirely up to you, especially if you like your project's present course of not quite hitting half of the funds needed before it ends.

Don't like that advice?  Here's "plan B" - inform your backers that you're canceling, then relaunch the same project with a less-costly printer, and don't try co-opting all the magic, collecting and cardistry boards with your "special thank you."  Let the project stand on its own two feet.  With a printer like MPC, the quality will be only somewhat lower than USPC but the lower price and greater flexibility on print run size they offer will be such that you could set a goal that's as little as 10% of what you're asking for now and succeed.  There won't be as many of your decks out there, but without hitting your goal, there won't be any, period.  You've already got enough support to hit that lower goal with room to spare and you can tout your success to the world when moving on to the next project, assuming you have more ideas you want to develop - and you'll have a fan base of previous backers.
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Re: Game Party
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2015, 10:40:37 PM »
 

alvinhy

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And I must say, its probably the worst thing you can say that "you don't care".
I would agree with you if my phrase "I don't care" was not taken out of context

What did I mean "I don't care" in response to the false assumptions made by Don? I explained Don my position: I don't care of HIS speculations about my knowledge or  experience. I really don't care of HIS doubts whether my project will be launched on kickstarter. Is there a sense of care of such things?

"Do your duty, come what may"

But I do care of how to do my job and how to make the deck of cards better. And I do listen to other people's advice

I had no doubt because I have enough experience. And now you can take a sober view of my work

The problem is that conversation with Don went off the topic to false speculations. My poll was senselessly merged earlier with another topic and then was deleted. His further posts sounded disrespectful, as though he talked to the silly schoolchild

And he finds it possible to make references to this shameful fact. Such behavior is unacceptable for the professional

I don't regret about any of my words because I'm a polite person. Words and actions of Don forced me to regret that I began a conversation with him. I decided to delete that topic, but I have no such level of access and I edited out my posts. I am very disappointed with such attitude

Best Regards and Merry Christmas!

Don is a straightforward guy and he's doing you a favour giving you valuable advice. The playing card community is a tight one and everything goes around will be heard of.

All I can say is don't let your ego get upon yourself and stay humble. Because looking at your kickstarter project, listening to others advice would be your priority. Its not like Don is picking on you, he also wishes great projects to rise.

Your deck design is great, I can see shadows of federal 52, and you need to know your audience, instead of catering the whole playing card industry (poker, magic cardistry). I know because Ive learnt from experience. Focus on one audience and you will succeed.
 

Re: Game Party
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2015, 02:02:04 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Don is a straightforward guy and he's doing you a favour giving you valuable advice. The playing card community is a tight one and everything goes around will be heard of.

All I can say is don't let your ego get upon yourself and stay humble. Because looking at your kickstarter project, listening to others advice would be your priority. Its not like Don is picking on you, he also wishes great projects to rise.

Your deck design is great, I can see shadows of federal 52, and you need to know your audience, instead of catering the whole playing card industry (poker, magic cardistry). I know because Ive learnt from experience. Focus on one audience and you will succeed.

Thanks for the support.

I can understand when an artist has a vision and really wants to bring that vision to the world.  I'm reminded of an old adage with movie editors.  Directors sometimes shoot these absolutely stunning, beautiful, well-acted, perfect scenes as part of their overall production, but then you take all the footage to the editing table and guess what?  Some of them just don't work with the movie - they make the story drag, they take some dramatic element in the wrong direction, etc.  It could be the equivalent of Picasso on celluloid (or in a digital file, these days), but editors must "kill their babies" at times for the sake of the movie as a whole, leaving those great shots on the cutting room floor (or wherever deleted digital scenes go these days).  The director might throw a hissy fit or something, but a good director hires a good editor and trusts their judgment when it comes to the flow of the story, and not every single frame shot will end up in the finished project because no director and no camera operator is that perfect and precisely economical.  Directors shoot as much as they do with that very intention, knowing that some of what's shot will be left out because it won't work - but they won't necessarily know until the production is down to the editing stage, so they make the extra shots in order to have options.

"Cardlover" seems personally invested in all the various elements he pulled together and the concept as a whole.  That's fine and dandy if he's making just one deck for himself and that's it.  But when you're trying to sell to a marketplace, you need to either make your project suit the desires of the largest number of people you can or you need to scale down the project to cater to the specific niche that wants what you've done, exactly as you've done it.  I think pursuing a 2,500-deck minimum print run with USPC is ambitious for this project and his numbers would agree, but taking this to a boutique printer like MPC means he can scale down the size of the project to the number of people who've expressed interest by pledging.  He might lose a few pledges because some of those people may have backed solely because it was made by USPC or made in the US or will cost more per deck or for whatever other reason - but he might also gain a few more backers because he can craft the project to a scale that's almost guaranteed to succeed.  One of the best things about a large, diverse marketplace like Kickstarter is that even if your concept's theme is somewhat esoteric and far from the mainstream, as long as you've put it together well enough and in an appealing way, you'll attract at least a small number of backers - scale the project correctly to the number of backers who'll be interested and you'll have a success.  Some types of projects simply can't be scaled down (if they could, the artist probably wouldn't need KS to make it), but for playing cards, when there's a printer out there willing to make print runs as little as a single deck, there's no such thing as a project that's too small.
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Re: Game Party
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2015, 06:37:29 PM »
 

Justin O.

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my USPCC
your USPCC? :D Can you clarify this a little bit for us?

Haha, definitely a typo of 'by' but a funny mistake. Thanks for the heads up, I don't want to lead anyone on by letting them believe I am affiliated with something I'm not. Corrected my OP.
Kickstarter completely revolutionized the way I waste money.

The people who handle playing cards are always in a world of delicate fingertip technology.