Amigos Playing Cards KS

[Rose]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/realfictivekin/amigos-playing-cards?ref=discovery
3 Decks!

[Don Boyer]

Three deck designs that I really like.  I honestly have nothing to complain about in regards to the design, and the choice of EPCC as their printer was a good one.  They're good, plain as that.

I also like the refreshing simplicity of their rewards.  Pick one, two or all three, plain as that.  No tchochkes or assorted dust collectors, just cards.  That I REALLY like.

[Will W.]

Three deck designs that I really like.  I honestly have nothing to complain about in regards to the design, and the choice of EPCC as their printer was a good one.  They're good, plain as that.

I also like the refreshing simplicity of their rewards.  Pick one, two or all three, plain as that.  No tchochkes or assorted dust collectors, just cards.  That I REALLY like.

I like all 3 decks as well, but what's the deal with the banner across the tucks?  Looks like an advertising deck.  What is "the amigos card club" anyways?

[PurpleIce]

Three deck designs that I really like.  I honestly have nothing to complain about in regards to the design, and the choice of EPCC as their printer was a good one.  They're good, plain as that.

I also like the refreshing simplicity of their rewards.  Pick one, two or all three, plain as that.  No tchochkes or assorted dust collectors, just cards.  That I REALLY like.

I don't really know about this...I probably only like the Jessica Hische deck a little more because of the way she plays with her courts.

The one by Alonzo Felix is not too bad, probably just not my style.

And the one by Frank Chimero? I just feel the courts look a little too weird. The AoS and the joker, though suit the theme, is a little boring. The Clubs on the joker also looks a little disproportion? Maybe its the optical illusion of all those lines, but look at it long enough and the whole deck feels out of proportion.

All their decks are simple and nice, but nothing fantastic either. Probably just feels like "another" deck for your everyday card game.
But if the tuck is going to look this way...then i would say i am not a fan too.

The pledge is simple and clear, which is good, but they don't offer add-ons for people who might want to get more decks. And without add-ons, would make the $30,000 goal, seem a little ambitious to me. (Even with add-ons would probably be a hard target to meet). I mean, like i said earlier, they are nice decks, but that's about it. Good, but not great.

[Justin O.]

I think this project will suffer from more people than not just watching this without pledging because there is no rush to sign up. I am waiting to see how this goes, and may pick up the trio towards the end of the campaign if it's going to succeed, but I think a lot of people will do the same and not enough people will be actually pledging. I don't see anything must-have about these decks.

[Don Boyer]

I like all 3 decks as well, but what's the deal with the banner across the tucks?  Looks like an advertising deck.  What is "the amigos card club" anyways?

It's their brand.  There's probably more decks planned if these are successful.

I don't really know about this...I probably only like the Jessica Hische deck a little more because of the way she plays with her courts.

The one by Alonzo Felix is not too bad, probably just not my style.

And the one by Frank Chimero? I just feel the courts look a little too weird. The AoS and the joker, though suit the theme, is a little boring. The Clubs on the joker also looks a little disproportion? Maybe its the optical illusion of all those lines, but look at it long enough and the whole deck feels out of proportion.

All their decks are simple and nice, but nothing fantastic either. Probably just feels like "another" deck for your everyday card game.
But if the tuck is going to look this way...then i would say i am not a fan too.

The pledge is simple and clear, which is good, but they don't offer add-ons for people who might want to get more decks. And without add-ons, would make the $30,000 goal, seem a little ambitious to me. (Even with add-ons would probably be a hard target to meet). I mean, like i said earlier, they are nice decks, but that's about it. Good, but not great.

It seems as though they're a bit new to creating projects.  This is their first, and they've not backed a single project.  Perhaps if someone mentioned that to them, they'd add add-ons? 

I can easily see how these decks as a set might not appeal to everyone - though I still like it, my least favorite of the three would be the Jessica Hische deck.  But all three are creatively done without being too overdone.  This strongly appeals to me.  There's so many people paying attention to all the bells and whistles these days that a simple, clean design like any of these three decks can look plain Jane in comparison.

If you only like one deck, great - you don't have to pledge for the others!

I think this project will suffer from more people than not just watching this without pledging because there is no rush to sign up. I am waiting to see how this goes, and may pick up the trio towards the end of the campaign if it's going to succeed, but I think a lot of people will do the same and not enough people will be actually pledging. I don't see anything must-have about these decks.

That in itself can kill a project - standing on the sidelines.  People stand by, watching and waiting for it to succeed, many forget about the deadline and suddenly the project failed and they scratch their heads and try to figure out why.

I knew someone here who told me that he used to wait for a deck to get to retail before buying rather than pledging at Kickstarter.  Same problem - everyone waits for retail, the KS project doesn't benefit from the extra funds, and when the deadline hits, there's no deck to wait for anymore because they missed their goal, despite the fact that people were interested in buying it!

There's not much point in waiting, really.  The response I typically hear to that is "Oh, I'm waiting to see if something better comes out."  That's like waiting for the new computer coming out that's the best of the best - there's ALWAYS a new computer coming out, and sure, you can wait, but you'll never end up buying!  The deck market is terribly crowded as it is.  I can understand if you don't like the decks - however, to be interested but remaining standing on the sidelines makes no sense.

To make a long story short, if you like any of the decks, PLEDGE for them!  Waiting for either more joiners or the deck to hit retail means your cash doesn't help get it made in the first place.  No deck, no project to join, no retail.

[fictivecameron]

First up, thanks so much Rose for all the kind words and for pointing me towards The Discourse.

I just thought I'd say hello in case anyone had any questions.
As some of you have pointed out, we made a few amateur mistakes on our Kickstarter. Our bad. It's our first time but I think we're making imrovements. We added options for a half and full brick at Rose's suggestion and we put up a pretty fun little video.

If you're wondering what the hell Amigos is generally, I wrote up a back story on our company site:
http://fictivekin.com/amigos/

The short of it is that it started as an online club for playing cards. Games like Euchre, Spades, Hearts, Bridge, etc. We got some lovely decks designed by our friends and we found ourselves missing them when we were playing offline so we crossed our fingers and launched a Kickstarter.

Anyhow, that's the deal. Thanks to anyone who backs the project.

Cameron

[Don Boyer]

Glad to have you on board, Cameron.

That game idea you discussed, that you played with your friends online?  That sounds REALLY cool!  How exactly did that work?

If you have any questions about playing cards, the collectors' market, and anything else in-between, please pop in and ask - we don't believe in the existence of dumb questions.

[Rose]

Hey Cameron,
Welcome and thanks for joining us here.
I love this Kickstarter concept, there are 3 decks and seems like there is a style for everyone. Personally I like the Alonzo Felix Deck with rockets and space ships theme.
Well Done and Good Luck with your project! 

[Collector]

Very uncommunicative Amigos, I must say.
Will all court cards be different or only in one deck?

[Don Boyer]

Very uncommunicative Amigos, I must say.
Will all court cards be different or only in one deck?

You might not have noticed, but each deck is a wholly different design made by a different artist.  The only design commonality they have is a box design that ties them together as sort of a series, but that's where the similarities end.

[Fess]

I'm in for two Jessica Hische decks. That joker, hahaha, love it. Courts are a lot of fun too. Card back, is fun too nice ball of yarn all over the place but still retaining the elegance of the deck. Good stuff.

I may add-on an Alonzo Felix deck as well. Card back would be better if the rocket ship and comment were opposite, would make for cooler looking fans. I like the joker quite a bit.

Also interested in hearing how the game thing worked. It does sound like a lot of fun.

[Collector]

Very uncommunicative Amigos, I must say.
Will all court cards be different or only in one deck?

You might not have noticed, but each deck is a wholly different design made by a different artist.  The only design commonality they have is a box design that ties them together as sort of a series, but that's where the similarities end.

Don, I noticed three different decks in their project. I didn't noticed different Jacks, Queens, Kings in each deck. I asked them about this moment through e-mail and have never got any answer. They made the video for their 1st update later. It shows that one deck has different courts. But it doesn't mean that other decks have different courts. You can only assume that.

I always like to read how people will be selective on Kickstarter. And always see how they are I don't have anything against these designers. They just have uncompleted description for their project on Kickstarter.

p.s. Backs of Jessica's deck and Alonzo's deck can be not so nice on real poker playing cards (other scale and, as a result,  more empty space).

[Don Boyer]

Don, I noticed three different decks in their project. I didn't noticed different Jacks, Queens, Kings in each deck. I asked them about this moment through e-mail and have never got any answer. They made the video for their 1st update later. It shows that one deck has different courts. But it doesn't mean that other decks have different courts. You can only assume that.

I always like to read how people will be selective on Kickstarter. And always see how they are I don't have anything against these designers. They just have uncompleted description for their project on Kickstarter.

p.s. Backs of Jessica's deck and Alonzo's deck can be not so nice on real poker playing cards (other scale and, as a result,  more empty space).

If you check the first post of this topic, you'll see that each deck has different courts suited to the deck's design.  Now, if you're asking "Are the courts in each SUIT in a given deck different?,"  that's something I agree with - they need to make this more clear.  One of the creators, "fictivecameron", is on this thread - Cameron, what's the story?

[Collector]

Don, I noticed three different decks in their project. I didn't noticed different Jacks, Queens, Kings in each deck. I asked them about this moment through e-mail and have never got any answer. They made the video for their 1st update later. It shows that one deck has different courts. But it doesn't mean that other decks have different courts. You can only assume that.

I always like to read how people will be selective on Kickstarter. And always see how they are I don't have anything against these designers. They just have uncompleted description for their project on Kickstarter.

p.s. Backs of Jessica's deck and Alonzo's deck can be not so nice on real poker playing cards (other scale and, as a result,  more empty space).

If you check the first post of this topic, you'll see that each deck has different courts suited to the deck's design.  Now, if you're asking "Are the courts in each SUIT in a given deck different?,"  that's something I agree with - they need to make this more clear.  One of the creators, "fictivecameron", is on this thread - Cameron, what's the story?

Don, your proposed specification is necessary only for people who are out of context or in case of my total blindness. I am not blind. And I assumed that people here aren’t out of context. It’s obvious that all three decks have different courts. It’s obvious that all courts in Frank Chimero’s deck are different due to their video.  So, my “Will all court cards be different or only in one deck?” is a short question but a quite specific one

Anyway, it’s more interesting to hear appropriate additional information from creators. Unfortunately, I am allergic to some combination of flags (“poor communication”, “First created “, “0 backed”, “Has not connected Facebook”) on Kickstarter due to Founders.

[Don Boyer]

Anyway, it’s more interesting to hear appropriate additional information from creators. Unfortunately, I am allergic to some combination of flags (“poor communication”, “First created “, “0 backed”, “Has not connected Facebook”) on Kickstarter due to Founders.

Actually, I've spoken with someone about this - Linnea Gits from Uusi.  She said these are noted designers, well-known in the field.  Every company starts from somewhere and not everyone likes Facebook - my pages suffer from benign neglect in part because I think the company is rather invasive in terms of privacy.

But this is almost assuredly not a "Founders" situation - that kid never identified himself anywhere in his project, preferring the nom de plume of "The Department of Design", and he was just that, a kid, who is presently being hounded by the New York State Attorney General's office.  The wheels of justice are slow but not immobile.  The Amigos are more up front about who they are and they have a solid reputation to uphold outside of Kickstarter.

[fictivecameron]

Okay, been a long week. Lots to respond to here.   Sorry for the delay.

1. Don. Glad you like the idea for the game. It works like this: anyone can sign up and become a member. If you're a member, you can start up a game and invite friends. It's primarily a web app, but we could do iPad and iOS later. The main features are:

- Play games / automatically keep score
- Player profiles with stats - You can see a profile here: http://fictivekin.com/amigos/
- Custom decks / backgrounds (you don't always play on a green felt table)
- Voice chat and text chat
- Custom house rules (play your game your way)
- More good stuff

A lot of this already works, but there's still a fair bit to do. We're hoping to use any proceeds from the sale of the cards to pour into finishing this app up. We almost decided to Kickstart the app but then we figured that would be hard for folks to get their heads around.

2. As for the court cards, it's really only the Frank Chimero one that has drastically different court cards per suit. That deck has very custom courts for each suit.

3. While our Kickstarter profile for Fictive Kin is pretty spare, my own personal one is more active. https://www.kickstarter.com/profile/fictivecameron We all tend to fund things individually rather than as a company.

4. As for questions for you all, I'd say that given how new we are to this, we're probably making some amateur mistakes. Because I (with bias) think that these decks are super beautiful and I'd love to have them in the world, I'd love any suggestions on how we can present them better. At the current rate, it feels a bit like we're out of luck. That said, we've got quite a bit of energy and passion for the project so if you have any good avenues to direct that energy down, please do share.

Thanks so much.

Cameron

[Don Boyer]

Suggestions...

Show more of your art work.

Insure that each deck has unique court cards in every suit. If possible and within your aesthetic, consider employing standard court card appearance, such as the King of Hearts, a.k.a. the "Suicide King", having a sword pointed toward his head (it's actually behind the head, but some people thought it was stuck into his head, hence the nickname), making the King of Diamonds and the Jacks of Spades and Hearts "one-eyed" (seen in profile), the Queen of Spades holding a scepter (the "Bedpost Queen"), etc.  Sounds silly, but many card players, especially neighborhood poker, use these appearance-based nicknames when playing to identify wild cards.

Try a more attractive tuck box design.  The uniform style you've chosen seems a bit too bland.  Not every deck must look like a pack of Bicycles or Bees, but a single face card image in a gray frame doesn't really get the heart racing and the juices flowing, if you catch my meaning.  You can make them united in appearance by giving them a design on the sides of the cards that identifies the artist and the Amigos Card Club.

A three-deck project from a new deck design group may have been a bit too ambitious.  Perhaps start with one, then make the others as either stretch goals or individual projects.  I've seen some excellent projects languish and die because they were overly ambitious.

As much as I hate seeing a card project devolve into a Middle-Eastern bazaar, perhaps offering just a few of the most popular extras as add-ons to your project would help.  Some very popular ones these days are uncut sheets (offer in small supply to spark more interest from collectors), posters (for people who can't afford the uncut sheets or were too late to get them), coins, poker chips (offered in small "one-each" sets for cheap and in full-blown poker kits for the more excited backer) and T-shirts (not too many designs, just two or three tops, and make them "iconic").  Custom dice were popular for a while, but they've fallen out of vogue it would seem, as fewer projects are offering them now.

Need more?  Hire me!  I do consulting work for designers and I live in the five boroughs.  In fact, every third Thursday of the month I'm in Brooklyn performing for kids at a hospital in Park Slope.  My rates are cheap because I'm in it more for the fun than the cash - which is good, 'cause I don't make a lot of cash at it!  My biggest client to date is Uusi, from Chicago (who have heard of you, by the way) - I started working with them on their second deck, Bohemia, and each deck since.  Their last design is coming to Kickstarter in a short while but there's already a topic about it here - Uusi Classic.

[Collector]

...Insure that each deck has unique court cards in every suit...

Try a more attractive tuck box design...

A three-deck project from a new deck design group may have been a bit too ambitious.  Perhaps start with one, then make the others as either stretch goals or individual projects...

+ + +

About three-deck project. The problem isn't even in your ambitions. You have three ABSOLUTELY different decks. It can't be easy to promote them all. Target audiences are very different. One can attract cat lovers (a huge audience, by the way). Other can attract people interested in space, etc. Playing card collectors aren't your only audience on Kickstarter.

+ promote;
+ communicate about your decks;
+ pay attention to backs of your playing cards.

Good luck.

[fictivecameron]

Thanks for all the advice!

It's gonna be tough to ensure that we have completely unique courts for every suit at this point, but we can certainly show a lot more of our artwork. Hopefully we can sort that out tomorrow.

I also hear you on the gray frame. I'll figure something out there as well.

I guess three decks was biting off a little too much, but I'm still gonna keep my fingers crossed. In some ways I agree that they are different, but they are unified in that they come from our app, they are all designed by good friends of ours, and they are all awesome.

Don, as for hiring, thanks so much for the offer. I'd say we maybe missed the boat this time around given how much time is left, but whether we're successful or not, let's be sure to talk more. We're pretty keen to bring some wonderful cards into the world.

[Don Boyer]

Thanks for all the advice!

It's gonna be tough to ensure that we have completely unique courts for every suit at this point, but we can certainly show a lot more of our artwork. Hopefully we can sort that out tomorrow.

I also hear you on the gray frame. I'll figure something out there as well.

I guess three decks was biting off a little too much, but I'm still gonna keep my fingers crossed. In some ways I agree that they are different, but they are unified in that they come from our app, they are all designed by good friends of ours, and they are all awesome.

Don, as for hiring, thanks so much for the offer. I'd say we maybe missed the boat this time around given how much time is left, but whether we're successful or not, let's be sure to talk more. We're pretty keen to bring some wonderful cards into the world.

Actually, most of the advice is for the NEXT time around - you're not going to try once and give up, are you?

You mentioned how the decks are unified: they're in your app, designed by friends and awesome.  I hear ya on the last one, but the first two are too personal to you - Joe "Backer" Sixpack will neither know nor care about them in all likelihood and even if he does know it's unlikely to sway his decision-making process.  Your app, your friends - not his.

I've found that the few times I've seen radically diverse decks that have little in common in a single project, it hurts rather than helps the chances for success.  I'd suggest starting with a single deck, then offering a second as a stretch goal - either a differently-colored back (makes a great poker set) or at least something of the same theme or style.  If you really wanted to get them all out there at once, make THREE projects for them - each individual project will have a relatively small goal, indicating to potential backers a stronger chance of that deck getting made.  Cross-promote to a limited extent, indicate they're parts of a series, but treat them as separate projects.

Don't underestimate the "poker set" concept - I know a hardcore, serious player would never consider anything other than a bridge-sized standard deck (they're very picky), but the "beer-and-pretzels" neighborhood poker player would consider something unique, depending on the receptiveness of his buddies.  However, he still wouldn't touch it if there's only one color available.  Poker players save time at the table; while one deck is in play, the other deck is being shuffled and cut for the next round.  That way the action doesn't slow down - they're in it less for the money, more for the action.  They prefer two of the same type of design because the faces will be the same in every hand, regardless of the color of the deck being played.

[fictivecameron]

All great advice. And yep, understood, there is always a next time.
That said, I'm gonna try like crazy to get this one through. Current odds (1/10).
I'll update this thread when we've got better artwork on the KS page.
Should be this week sometime.

[fictivecameron]

Hola. Just a quick update. We added more visuals to the project:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/realfictivekin/amigos-playing-cards?ref=nav_search

The GIFs are working pretty well I think.

Also, we're making some decent progress. Still a long shot, but no longer feeling impossible.

[Don Boyer]

You may have made an error in the tier structure.  You have several tiers mentioning "US Shipping Included" that are closed.  You also have tiers that mention "US Shipping Included.  International Shipping Updated." that are still open - but there's no price difference between them and no mention of the actual international shipping premium required.  At no place on the home page or the updates do you mention an additional charge for international shipping.  If the project succeeds, this could be a serious problem impacting your bottom line.

This project will hopefully serve as a valuable learning experience for your collective, leaving you much better equipped for the next attempt.  If you're interested, as I mentioned, I'm available for consultation.

[fictivecameron]

Yep. Agreed. We've learned lots. I'll certainly be in touch next time.