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Playing Card Fans
« on: December 18, 2011, 05:58:00 PM »
 

Evan

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Re: Playing Card Fans
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2011, 06:00:57 PM »
 

moonexe

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I like the idea, but wasting a red artifice on it... Not sure I could live with that. Those poor cards will never form a full deck again.
"This fan is made of Brand New Red artifice, never used." -shudders-
« Last Edit: December 18, 2011, 06:07:45 PM by Moon.exe »
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Re: Playing Card Fans
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2011, 06:08:37 PM »
 

Joshua Robinson

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poor red artifice, never lived up to what they were meant to be!! D:

EDIT: he also does it with other decks like a D&D DECK!!!! why??
« Last Edit: December 18, 2011, 06:14:31 PM by FIVEofHEARTS »
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Re: Playing Card Fans
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2011, 06:18:45 PM »
 

Evan

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poor red artifice, never lived up to what they were meant to be!! D:

EDIT: he also does it with other decks like a D&D DECK!!!! why??
I saw that pic too but those decks aren't on his ebay so I don't know if he will sell those ones
 

Re: Playing Card Fans
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2011, 06:20:00 PM »
 

Joshua Robinson

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but still, those decks never lived to be a deck!
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Re: Playing Card Fans
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2011, 07:39:09 PM »
 

phantom1412

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I think that is so easy to make. You can do it by yourself if you know where to buy the handle part.
 

Re: Playing Card Fans
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2011, 09:03:37 PM »
 

KPopFever605

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Why is it even $20 - I like the concept, and that's the easiest way to make a fan, but you have to put into factor the thickness and other properties. If he made it with other decks it's look at lease a little better, but a Red Artifice?
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Re: Playing Card Fans
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2011, 01:21:37 AM »
 

Jin Jian

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i think the whole thing is pretty stupid wasting such a deck and it pretty expensive
 

Re: Playing Card Fans
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2011, 03:01:07 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Why is it even $20 - I like the concept, and that's the easiest way to make a fan, but you have to put into factor the thickness and other properties. If he made it with other decks it's look at lease a little better, but a Red Artifice?
i think the whole thing is pretty stupid wasting such a deck and it pretty expensive
News flash, guys - some people LIKE these as WORKS OF ART as well as practical items and/or magic performance accessories.

Why is it "$20", KPop?  (Actually, it's nearly US$28, but hey, you were close.)  Gotta get the deck, gotta get the fan spokes, gotta assemble them.  All that takes time, too.  And let us not forget - artists actually like getting PAID for their work.  Each fan uses 14 cards - you can get three from a single deck of Red Artifice or seven from two decks, each deck of which by itself runs for anywhere from $45 to $100 at present on Ebay.  The Red Artifice is a PERFECT deck to create into a fan - it's considered to be rather attractive and it's highly sought after.

You think it's "stupid wasting such a deck" and that it's "pretty expensive", Hawjinjian?  You may see it as such, but there are others who wouldn't see this as a waste.  It costs what it costs because of the materials, labor and artistic vision cost what they cost!  It's a creative and unique idea that many around here would actually find appealing as art and possibly even useful as a prop in their act.  These decks are meant to be used, and the owner who purchases them can use them as they see fit - making it using a rare and attractive deck of cards simply adds to the beauty of the piece.  Would you call a beautiful sculpture made of gold a waste of gold?

It really ticks me off when people devalue art like you two have done, and not just once.  Imagine if you became professional magicians performing on a stage and your audience members felt they should pay next to nothing for the ticket because the playing cards and other props you use are cheap and the cost of renting the theater isn't all that high when it's divided by so many people.  They'd sound a lot like you do right now.

Magic and cardistry are ART FORMS.  When you undercut the value of art, you're undercutting your own value as artists.  Why on earth would you want to do that?  Are you that genuinely cheap in both wallet and spirit?  Go and try creating something beautiful that you want to make money from and see how much you think your own efforts are worth, then come back here and try telling us about how overpriced or stupid something another artist created is...
 >:( >:( >:(
« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 03:03:19 AM by Good@Sabacc »
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Re: Playing Card Fans
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2011, 03:08:09 AM »
 

junjie04

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Why is it even $20 - I like the concept, and that's the easiest way to make a fan, but you have to put into factor the thickness and other properties. If he made it with other decks it's look at lease a little better, but a Red Artifice?
i think the whole thing is pretty stupid wasting such a deck and it pretty expensive
News flash, guys - some people LIKE these as WORKS OF ART as well as practical items and/or magic performance accessories.

Why is it "$20", KPop?  (Actually, it's nearly US$28, but hey, you were close.)  Gotta get the deck, gotta get the fan spokes, gotta assemble them.  All that takes time, too.  And let us not forget - artists actually like getting PAID for their work.  Each fan uses 14 cards - you can get three from a single deck of Red Artifice or seven from two decks, each deck of which by itself runs for anywhere from $45 to $100 at present on Ebay.  The Red Artifice is a PERFECT deck to create into a fan - it's considered to be rather attractive and it's highly sought after.

You think it's "stupid wasting such a deck" and that it's "pretty expensive", Hawjinjian?  You may see it as such, but there are others who wouldn't see this as a waste.  It costs what it costs because of the materials, labor and artistic vision cost what they cost!  It's a creative and unique idea that many around here would actually find appealing as art and possibly even useful as a prop in their act.  These decks are meant to be used, and the owner who purchases them can use them as they see fit - making it using a rare and attractive deck of cards simply adds to the beauty of the piece.  Would you call a beautiful sculpture made of gold a waste of gold?

It really ticks me off when people devalue art like you two have done, and not just once.  Imagine if you became professional magicians performing on a stage and your audience members felt they should pay next to nothing for the ticket because the playing cards and other props you use are cheap and the cost of renting the theater isn't all that high when it's divided by so many people.  They'd sound a lot like you do right now.

Magic and cardistry are ART FORMS.  When you undercut the value of art, you're undercutting your own value as artists.  Why on earth would you want to do that?  Are you that genuinely cheap in both wallet and spirit?  Go and try creating something beautiful that you want to make money from and see how much you think your own efforts are worth, then come back here and try telling us about how overpriced or stupid something another artist created is...
 >:( >:( >:(

TOTALLY AGRREEEEED
 

Re: Playing Card Fans
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2011, 03:38:09 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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TOTALLY AGRREEEEED

I'm not an easily angered person, but people like that really need to grow up.  They sound like they want their champagne wishes and caviar dreams fulfilled on a beer-and-pretzels budget.

It's not the first time I ran into that kind of thing around here - I had one guy who thought I wanted some garden-variety standard Rider Backs from him in exchange for a Black Ghost 1st Edition.  Same guy wanted Red Artifice, posting an ISO practically pleading for them - and he PM'd me that he wanted them at the price of $30 for TWO decks.  I don't answer any PMs from him anymore...
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Re: Playing Card Fans
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2011, 03:56:29 AM »
 

Joshua Robinson

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It's not the first time I ran into that kind of thing around here - I had one guy who thought I wanted some garden-variety standard Rider Backs from him in exchange for a Black Ghost 1st Edition.  Same guy wanted Red Artifice, posting an ISO practically pleading for them - and he PM'd me that he wanted them at the price of $30 for TWO decks.  I don't answer any PMs from him anymore...

at least you are not naming names, what do you mean, garden-variety standard rider backs?
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Re: Playing Card Fans
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2011, 04:05:39 AM »
 

dmbaggs

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I'm not saying it's bad art. But I am not a fan of these at all. They could easily be made by anybody. The hard part is having the rare decks.


Also people speaking about these and saying their opinion/if they think it is worth the price it is going for is a common topic for discussion. I don't know why Sabacc is getting so mad. This is a normal discussion with only a few comments that could be considered out of line.
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Re: Playing Card Fans
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2011, 04:08:59 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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It's not the first time I ran into that kind of thing around here - I had one guy who thought I wanted some garden-variety standard Rider Backs from him in exchange for a Black Ghost 1st Edition.  Same guy wanted Red Artifice, posting an ISO practically pleading for them - and he PM'd me that he wanted them at the price of $30 for TWO decks.  I don't answer any PMs from him anymore...

at least you are not naming names, what do you mean, garden-variety standard rider backs?

Exactly that.  The basic Rider Back cards found in supermarkets and drug stores and stationery shops everywhere.  The ones that go for maybe $20 a brick or less at big-box retailers and wholesale clubs.

"Garden-variety" is another way of saying "ordinary".  "Run-of-the-mill" would be another.

I'm not saying it's bad art. But I am not a fan of these at all. They could easily be made by anybody. The hard part is having the rare decks.

Also people speaking about these and saying their opinion/if they think it is worth the price it is going for is a common topic for discussion. I don't know why Sabacc is getting so mad. This is a normal discussion with only a few comments that could be considered out of line.

Lots of art "could be made by anybody", to be sure.  But like I mentioned before, those two come across as wanting everything without wanting to pay anything for it.  Hawjinjian I've had issue with before over the devaluation of another person's art.  So it may seem strong to you, but there's history behind it and doesn't appear in this topic.  My last rant about this regarding him was in a topic started by Phantom1412 about offering roses made of playing cards.  He griped about how expensive they were and started rattling off a list of the materials cost without bothering to factor in at all the creativity, time and effort that goes into making such things.

He comes across as the kind of person who wants to stay in the Presidential Suite at the Plaza Hotel with a view of Central Park for the same price as a room at the Motel 6 near the Interstate and at the end of the airport runway, because after all, it's just four walls and a bed...and he wants to rent a Ferrari for less than the cost to rent a Geo Metro, because they both have four wheels, but the Ferrari has less seating capacity, less trunk space and uses more gas.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 04:26:00 AM by Good@Sabacc »
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Re: Playing Card Fans
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2011, 04:23:20 AM »
 

moonexe

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You... You gotta be kidding me. Really? Rider backs?
I guess we can never overestimate the full extent of human idiocy... :-\
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Re: Playing Card Fans
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2011, 04:44:50 AM »
 

dmbaggs

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Lots of art "could be made by anybody", to be sure.  But like I mentioned before, those two come across as wanting everything without wanting to pay anything for it.  Hawjinjian I've had issue with before over the devaluation of another person's art.  So it may seem strong to you, but there's history behind it and doesn't appear in this topic.  My last rant about this regarding him was in a topic started by Phantom1412 about offering roses made of playing cards.  He griped about how expensive they were and started rattling off a list of the materials cost without bothering to factor in at all the creativity, time and effort that goes into making such things.

He comes across as the kind of person who wants to stay in the Presidential Suite at the Plaza Hotel with a view of Central Park for the same price as a room at the Motel 6 near the Interstate and at the end of the airport runway, because after all, it's just four walls and a bed...and he wants to rent a Ferrari for less than the cost to rent a Geo Metro, because they both have four wheels, but the Ferrari has less seating capacity, less trunk space and uses more gas.


Okay yeah I can give you that. I see the creativity, but I could do it myself. I'm not saying that I want it without paying for it. If I couldn't make it myself I would understand, but in this case it's an easy to make "craft". It's like the guy selling a deck of cards with a hollowed out center on ebay for $15 bucks. I could take an exacto knife and make one. I see what you're point is and I agree.


I don't know what's between you and Hawjinjain but I can never get over you're super exaggerated metaphors (metaphors right?) haha
« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 04:46:15 AM by brown_baggs »
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Re: Playing Card Fans
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2011, 05:10:57 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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You... You gotta be kidding me. Really? Rider backs?
I guess we can never overestimate the full extent of human idiocy... :-\

Honestly, I wish we COULD.  I think the person in question was really just a kid, even though his profile photo depicts someone a bit older.  At least I HOPE he was just a kid, 'cause anyone older than that who's still acting like a kid is in for a world of headaches unless he has a parent or a sugar momma with deep pockets, willing to give him everything he wants...

Okay yeah I can give you that. I see the creativity, but I could do it myself. I'm not saying that I want it without paying for it. If I couldn't make it myself I would understand, but in this case it's an easy to make "craft". It's like the guy selling a deck of cards with a hollowed out center on ebay for $15 bucks. I could take an exacto knife and make one. I see what you're point is and I agree.


I don't know what's between you and Hawjinjain but I can never get over you're super exaggerated metaphors (metaphors right?) haha

If you like it and can do it yourself, by all means, do it yourself!  Same thing about the hollowed-out playing cards.  But for some, the materials, time and effort it would take them to make it themselves would cost more than the asking price of just buying it.

I find that a good metaphor can really shine a light in a dark corner of one's mind, so to speak...
 8)
« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 05:12:39 AM by Good@Sabacc »
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Re: Playing Card Fans
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2011, 08:25:03 AM »
 

Lushbob

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These fans look great, especially using the Red Artifice cards. It gives it a different kind of beauty. Although, maybe that's purely because Red Artifice decks are so rare. Either way, they look great, but as a deck collector I won't be getting one.
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Re: Playing Card Fans
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2011, 11:02:00 AM »
 

KPopFever605

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I was just stating my opinion, and then I get three dislikes for it. Everyone has a different opinion when it comes to art. One man's treasure may be another man's trash. I'm just saying. People might think Picasso is the best artists, others might think he's trash. All I'm doing is expressing my opinion, but I get flagged for it. I thought this was free country. If you don't have anything nice to say, it's better off not to say anything at all.
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Re: Playing Card Fans
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2011, 11:13:52 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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If you don't have anything nice to say, it's better off not to say anything at all.


For once, we agree on something!  Remember this sentence when considering your next critique.
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Re: Playing Card Fans
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2011, 06:13:21 PM »
 

KPopFever605

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It was specifically intended for you, but I will too take this advice in hand. Also, some other users should do the same as well. Haha!
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Re: Playing Card Fans
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2011, 07:04:52 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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It was specifically intended for you, but I will too take this advice in hand. Also, some other users should do the same as well. Haha!


You were asking why it costs what it costs.  You though it was only $20 and still considered that too expensive, when the materials alone would cost practically as much if not more.  You asked "why a Red Artifice deck?" when damn near everyone here considers it to be a beautiful deck, and still would even if it wasn't rare.


So, if you liked the Mona Lisa (or even if you didn't like it but just wanted it "to complete your collection, because it's so rare"), would you want to pay just a little less than the cost of the materials to make it?  Would anyone else think you're off your rocker for expecting to pay so little?
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Re: Playing Card Fans
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2011, 07:31:55 PM »
 

KPopFever605

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I'm not the only one that asked why he used a Red Artifice, and I still do think the Red Artifice is an amazing deck regardless.
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Re: Playing Card Fans
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2011, 11:15:09 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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I'm not the only one that asked why he used a Red Artifice, and I still do think the Red Artifice is an amazing deck regardless.

No, you aren't, but while those were comments from people shuddering to think about the loss of a rare deck, you were the one who commented that it was overpriced at $20, even though it cost more than that to buy.

If you don't get it by now, there's no point in me trying to help you get it.  I'm not helping you pump your post count anymore.
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Re: Playing Card Fans
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2011, 10:23:35 PM »
 

KPopFever605

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[ $20, even though it cost more than that to buy.


It does cost around $20 for them because shipping itself costs about $10 - so $30 - $10 = $20 - Why'd you think I'm trying to pump my post counts, just because I misread a thread doesn't mean I'm trying to get more posts.
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