You are Here:
Madison Dealers by Ellusionist

Author (Read 32323 times)

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #125 on: June 30, 2013, 04:20:23 PM »
 

Curt


  • 52 Plus Joker Member
  • Frequent Flyer
  • *
  • 780
    Posts
  • Reputation: 74

  • Facebook:
Does it feel like other decks from USPCC? I would assume that it was printed by them... otherwise someone would have been making some noise about it.
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #126 on: June 30, 2013, 09:28:53 PM »
 

Don Boyer

  • VP/Dir. Club Forum/DAC Chair, 52 Plus Joker
  • Administrator
  • Forum Sentinel
  • *
  • 19,172
    Posts
  • Reputation: 415
  • Pick a card, any card...no, not THAT card!

  • Facebook:
I put up a review of this deck. I am still unclear of who printed this deck? was is USPCC or another company?

http://tuckcase.com/2013/06/30/deck-review-madison-dealers-erdnase-green/

I'm thinking it's USPC.  Based on your description, the cards are exceptionally slick - a sure sign of Magic Finish.  I'd go further and say that the stock is Bee Casino, since your description of the paper's firmness matches that of Bee Casino decks.  One way to tell for certain, if you haven't already noticed, is by smell - Magic Finish has a distinct smell; it lasts for a good while after the box has been opened.  Compare it to off-the-shelf Rider Backs or Tally-Ho decks.
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #127 on: June 30, 2013, 09:58:01 PM »
 

Fred

  • Discourse Lover
  • *
  • 229
    Posts
  • Reputation: 10
  • Dis legit binnis

I'm thinking it's USPC.  Based on your description, the cards are exceptionally slick - a sure sign of Magic Finish.  I'd go further and say that the stock is Bee Casino, since your description of the paper's firmness matches that of Bee Casino decks.  One way to tell for certain, if you haven't already noticed, is by smell - Magic Finish has a distinct smell; it lasts for a good while after the box has been opened.  Compare it to off-the-shelf Rider Backs or Tally-Ho decks.

How the heck do you know so much?! Been reading your other comments too and your knowledge base/bullshitting skill is very impressive!

What do you guys think of the marking system?
Alex, stop fucking with my name you phegget. xx
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #128 on: July 01, 2013, 12:18:44 AM »
 

Don Boyer

  • VP/Dir. Club Forum/DAC Chair, 52 Plus Joker
  • Administrator
  • Forum Sentinel
  • *
  • 19,172
    Posts
  • Reputation: 415
  • Pick a card, any card...no, not THAT card!

  • Facebook:

I'm thinking it's USPC.  Based on your description, the cards are exceptionally slick - a sure sign of Magic Finish.  I'd go further and say that the stock is Bee Casino, since your description of the paper's firmness matches that of Bee Casino decks.  One way to tell for certain, if you haven't already noticed, is by smell - Magic Finish has a distinct smell; it lasts for a good while after the box has been opened.  Compare it to off-the-shelf Rider Backs or Tally-Ho decks.

How the heck do you know so much?! Been reading your other comments too and your knowledge base/bullshitting skill is very impressive!

What do you guys think of the marking system?

Both learning and experience.  I'm friends with a few people in the business and I'm a good listener!

Couldn't tell you about the marking system yet, unless it's the same one he used for his Madison Players over at T11.  If that's the case, it's OK, but it's annoying to have to learn a new system.  My preferred marked decks are the Ultimate Marked Deck and the GT Speedreaders.  I do also have a fondness for the Gambler's Decks.

UMDs were the bomb, but they're out of print now.  Printed on an altered Bicycle Rider Back in red and blue, the marks required no system to learn - they could be read as easily from the back as from the front, and even at some distance - across the table, if the table wasn't too big.  These days, it's hard to find them for less than maybe $40 a pack - they're not only out of print, but they're also never to be remade.  In order to legally defend the Rider Back design as a trademark (since the copyright expired a long time ago), USPC Legal no longer permits any alterations aside from color changes of the Rider Back, Bicycle jokers and Bicycle Ace of Spades.

The GTs are nearly as good.  They were built on the Mandolin Back design - one of two designs USPC uses specifically for magicians to create gaffs with, they're close enough to the Rider Back that a spectator will likely not notice the difference while different enough to not dilute the Rider Back trademark.  The GT decks, however, are almost useless for gamblers.  The markings are in the top-right and bottom-left of the back, and they're inverted from what you'd expect - they're meant to be read easily in a spread where a spectator can see the back of the index corner, the traditional place for deck markings.  They look at the corner closest to you, but find nothing, because there's no marks to find; you look at the corner nearest to them, you see the marks, oriented so you can read them easily.

The Gambler's Deck, however, is a unique piece of work.  Originally, you could get them in Rider Back; after USPC Legal stepped in, they were made in a generic back that no one liked.  Today, they're made in Maiden Back (the other alterable design that looks similar to Rider Backs, and if you ask me, the more attractive of the two).  For all its different designs, the deck had three features: a) it was marked, and in over a half-dozen different ways; b) it was cut to be a stripper deck as well; and c) it was designed (and numbered) to be used in a specific stack order.  Among other things, when correctly stacked, you could cut the deck to any point, look at the top card and know what the BOTTOM card was without even memorizing the stack order, thanks to the multiple markings.  It is a fun deck to play around with - I use it in conjunction with an Invisible deck for some great effects - but I don't think it would hold up as well under close scrutiny; the marks are hidden, but there's so many of them.  It would never pass a riffle test.  (Hold a pack of cards face down, riffle the cards like a flip book and look for any "flickering" - that's the giveaway for most marked decks that don't use special inks or daubs.  That's the riffle test.)

Which brings me back to the Madison decks.  While it is a nuisance to learn a marking system, the Madison Players were the first marked deck I've seen that are so subtly marked, they could pass a casual riffle test.  They wouldn't hold up under closer scrutiny, but the marks are small enough that you can actually miss them with a simple flip-through.  So if this deck uses those markings, AND it has this Bee Diamond Back-like small, repeating pattern to it, I'm thinking this would pass a riffle test even more easily.  Those backs are practically like looking at an optical illusion in the first place.
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #129 on: July 01, 2013, 12:43:52 AM »
 

Fred

  • Discourse Lover
  • *
  • 229
    Posts
  • Reputation: 10
  • Dis legit binnis
Much appreciated Don. You're like a wikipedia for playing cards; such a majestic specimen :)

As for the Dealers marking system, it's different. ( http://ellusionist.com/dealers-are-marked ) Go check it out if you have time and tell me what you think. I don't have the deck myself but it doesnt seem too hard to learn and looks pretty damn well hidden. Don't know about it passing the riffle test though..
« Last Edit: July 01, 2013, 12:44:39 AM by Froggo »
Alex, stop fucking with my name you phegget. xx
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #130 on: July 01, 2013, 01:20:46 AM »
 

Don Boyer

  • VP/Dir. Club Forum/DAC Chair, 52 Plus Joker
  • Administrator
  • Forum Sentinel
  • *
  • 19,172
    Posts
  • Reputation: 415
  • Pick a card, any card...no, not THAT card!

  • Facebook:
Much appreciated Don. You're like a wikipedia for playing cards; such a majestic specimen :)

As for the Dealers marking system, it's different. ( http://ellusionist.com/dealers-are-marked ) Go check it out if you have time and tell me what you think. I don't have the deck myself but it doesnt seem too hard to learn and looks pretty damn well hidden. Don't know about it passing the riffle test though..

The marking system is actually closely modeled off the one for the Players.  It even suffers the same (unnecessary, in this case) flaw where the joker and the King of Diamonds are identically "marked".  I'd think that unless the entire back was littered with these marks, they would be hard to find when riffling, though positioning them closer to the corners does give them the drawback that they might be spotted because that's the place people generally look for deck markings due to that corner being the one that's visible on all the cards when they're held in an "index fan" in your hands, allowing you to read all the cards without moving them.
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #131 on: July 01, 2013, 02:08:00 AM »
 

Fred

  • Discourse Lover
  • *
  • 229
    Posts
  • Reputation: 10
  • Dis legit binnis
Yea that's true. The buyer beware disclaimer on the Rounders really should be on here instead! Haha (although it wouldnt fit the whole Erdnase theme).

Props to the marketing team at Ellusionist.. the Scarlet deck for every 12 decks campaign is a damn good one. Massive hype, great release and excellent reward system= profit $$$$$$$. I can't imagine how many people got sucked in to buying 12 decks whereas they wouldve only bought 1-3 normally. Total deck sales are probably already closing in on the 10,000 mark.

I have a slight hunch that Ellusionist may have had pulled more scarlet decks out of their asses than the 405 scarlet decks advertised.. They said on Facebook that they only had about 50 left like 4 days ago.. whilst advertising on the website that there were still 150 left as of 5 days ago, and refused to post updates and answer questions on how many were left after those announcements.. Only just announcing 7hours ago that all of them are now sold out. Hmmmm dunno about you guys but it doesn't seem right to me! There also could be the possibility that those "only 50/150 left!" remarks were false in attempt to drive sales. But yeah, oh well we can only speculate. Great release by Ellusionist!

 
Alex, stop fucking with my name you phegget. xx
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #132 on: July 01, 2013, 03:19:58 AM »
 

Joe Hadsall

  • Newcomer
  • *
  • 3
    Posts
  • Reputation: 2

  • Facebook:

  • Twitter:
For everyone who bought any amount of Dealers, thank you! We don't sleep so that we can design decks that get our customers excited and motivated to perform. Whether a card worker sees an extension of their wardrobe, finds stellar functionality or is inspired to create new presentations, we love seeing what is done with our cards.

I'll apologize for not reading all the posts thoroughly, but I'll answer some questions (at least in the neighborhood of what I've read, although I might not be very specific):

PRINTED AT US PLAYING CARD CO.? Yes.

WHAT'S UP WITH THAT MARKING SYSTEM? I've read several reviews about the marking system. Personally, I think it's brilliant for something Don touched on: It holds up relatively well to a riffle test. The reason for that is because the dots are small, but more importantly, there are only six spots in the marking area that get adjusted.

To explain what I mean: Think of a marked deck you'd get in the toy department of a big-box retailer. Most of the time, those systems are organized like clocks, with separate indicator wheels for suit and value. That means there are 12 spots for the suit and four spots for the suit. Total of 16. Madison's Players deck has 10 spots.

The Madison Dealers have six. That's the same number as two of Madison's systems of marking a Rider back. That low number is a big deal, because the fewer ink spots there are to change, the tougher it will be to catch in a riffle inspection. Combine that and the very small dots with the lines of the back design -- and the natural optical illusions that result -- and you have a very solid marked deck. Is it perfect? Probably not. Is it better than other marking systems? Depends on your preference. But it's one of the best and most clever systems that I've seen.

WHY ERDNASE GREEN? Quite frankly, we are big fans of that unknown genius. After talking with Daniel during a January planning meeting, and reading about his story from Jamie D. Grant and others, Madison and Erdnase followed similar paths to discovery of artifice and subterfuge. Erdnase is a role model to many card workers, and we hope that us matching the backs of Dealers to the color of the first edition's cover pays tribute. And if someone doesn't know who Erdnase is, maybe that will get them hunting down details.

WHAT'S UP WITH SCARLET DECKS? Just to clarify, a run of about 2,500 exists (I may be wrong about the number; if so, I'll try to remember to come back here and edit the post). We offered a promotion where anyone who bought 12 Green Dealers would receive a free Scarlet deck, but only 405 would be available. That means that if someone bought 36 decks, they'd get three Scarlet decks, provided they were still available. However, Black Club members got to participate in the promo a day early, only their Scarlets were not taken out of that 405 limit.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2013, 01:47:43 PM by Joe Hadsall »
Joe Hadsall
Content Developer, Ellusionist.com
blog.ellusionist.com ~ www.facebook.com/ellusionist ~ www.twitter.com/ellusionist
"We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #133 on: July 01, 2013, 04:06:30 AM »
 

Don Boyer

  • VP/Dir. Club Forum/DAC Chair, 52 Plus Joker
  • Administrator
  • Forum Sentinel
  • *
  • 19,172
    Posts
  • Reputation: 415
  • Pick a card, any card...no, not THAT card!

  • Facebook:
Yea that's true. The buyer beware disclaimer on the Rounders really should be on here instead! Haha (although it wouldnt fit the whole Erdnase theme).

Props to the marketing team at Ellusionist.. the Scarlet deck for every 12 decks campaign is a damn good one. Massive hype, great release and excellent reward system= profit $$$$$$$. I can't imagine how many people got sucked in to buying 12 decks whereas they wouldve only bought 1-3 normally. Total deck sales are probably already closing in on the 10,000 mark.

I have a slight hunch that Ellusionist may have had pulled more scarlet decks out of their asses than the 405 scarlet decks advertised.. They said on Facebook that they only had about 50 left like 4 days ago.. whilst advertising on the website that there were still 150 left as of 5 days ago, and refused to post updates and answer questions on how many were left after those announcements.. Only just announcing 7hours ago that all of them are now sold out. Hmmmm dunno about you guys but it doesn't seem right to me! There also could be the possibility that those "only 50/150 left!" remarks were false in attempt to drive sales. But yeah, oh well we can only speculate. Great release by Ellusionist!

2,500 reds were printed - but they were all intended to be Daniel Madison's personal supply.  He "volunteered" the 405 that Ellusionist gave away.  Daniel might give more away on his own, but Ellusionist won't really have any of their own for anything unless Daniel gives them more.

Is it good hype?  Yes.  Was it a good idea?  Eh.  From the collector side of things, not a lot of people these days are going around buying anything by the brick.  But I've also come to realize that I'm not going to own every single super-rare deck that ever comes out - my pockets were never that deep and aren't likely to get that deep anytime soon.  Even if they were, there's a lot of other things I can think of to spend that cash on!  This is my hobby, not my sole reason for living and my very essence!  :))
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #134 on: July 01, 2013, 04:29:47 AM »
 

Fred

  • Discourse Lover
  • *
  • 229
    Posts
  • Reputation: 10
  • Dis legit binnis

2,500 reds were printed - but they were all intended to be Daniel Madison's personal supply.  He "volunteered" the 405 that Ellusionist gave away.  Daniel might give more away on his own, but Ellusionist won't really have any of their own for anything unless Daniel gives them more.

Is it good hype?  Yes.  Was it a good idea?  Eh.  From the collector side of things, not a lot of people these days are going around buying anything by the brick.  But I've also come to realize that I'm not going to own every single super-rare deck that ever comes out - my pockets were never that deep and aren't likely to get that deep anytime soon.  Even if they were, there's a lot of other things I can think of to spend that cash on!  This is my hobby, not my sole reason for living and my very essence!  :))

That's what i meant. I know that 2,500 were printed and 405 made available to the public, i just personally think that maybe more were available than originally advertised (say 600 for example). Again, just an assumption and i have nothing to back up my claims =p

In terms of dragging in collectors, i think it was a pretty smart move. Of course collectors generally won't want to buy 12 decks of the same design.. so if they had a campaign based around say, "buy 12 decks and get 20% off your order!", that would be inefficient as there would be no incentive for collectors to jump in on the deal. However in this case, the incentive to buy a brick is that you'll get a rare, limited scarlet deck, and thus there is greater desire for collectors to purchase a brick to add the rare deck to their collection. What i'm trying to say is that i think they chose the right option between "buy 12 decks and get 20% off, and "buy 12 decks and get a rare deck", as the cost of both options would be similar, but there would be a greater overall demand for the 2nd option and thus greater levels of profit.

Also, don't fight it Don. You know deep inside that you were born to collect cards, perform tricks, and be the go to guy for related information =)) Realise your destiny, sell your house and wife, n bye ol de cerds in ze wurld!!1
Alex, stop fucking with my name you phegget. xx
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #135 on: July 01, 2013, 06:32:30 AM »
 

Paul.Middleton

  • Discourse Veteran
  • *
  • 309
    Posts
  • Reputation: 20
  • Owner of JP Playing Cards

  • Facebook:

  • Skype:

  • Twitter:
Quote
The cheapest method for shipping anything via US Mail (USPS) is First Class without any extra features such as package tracking or insurance.  I have never seen any company undercut the price of First Class mail.  I can take, depending on destination, from two to eight weeks to arrive to international destinations.

Next cheapest is Priority Mail.  Much faster, costs notably more, but they do offer a flat rate shipping deal - using special USPS Priority Mail Flat Rate packaging, you can ship up to seventy pounds for a flat rate.  The rate varies based on package: envelopes are cheaper than boxes and small boxes are cheaper than larger ones.  It can take three to seven days to most of the world.

Most expensive is Express Mail.  They also have special boxes, but I don't think they offer a flat rate.  You get international tracking and FAST delivery, even some insurance coverage without having to pay for it.  It's NOT cheap in the least, but it's fast - one day to most US destinations, one to three days to the rest of the world.  They even offer a SAME DAY delivery rate, but it's Donald-Trump expensive...

MAGIC10 is one of the several discount codes used on the Ellusionist website.  If you check out the top of the Playing Card Plethora, you'll see a topic about these discounts that I try keeping updated as new codes arrive and old ones are canceled.  A small number of codes (usually for smaller retailers) can be used more than once.

I've tried Express Mail a few times and to be honest (through no fault of USPS) it doesn't make too much difference in reality. As they can't control the speed it goes through customs. I've had a priority arrive here in 5 working days, and then an express arrive here in 7 working days. HMRC (customs) in the UK seem to be very inconsistent in their approach. So if you do use USPS it's not always worth upgrading in my experience. That being said, maybe it is in a different country. I personally wouldn't consider first class mail at all for the lack of insurance, which is probably why most don't offer it.
~Paul Middleton,
JP Playing Cards
---------------------
FREE WORLDWIDE DELIVERY (UK over £30, EU over £70 and Rest Of World over £80)

www.jpplayingcards.co.uk
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #136 on: July 01, 2013, 01:52:51 PM »
 

Joe Hadsall

  • Newcomer
  • *
  • 3
    Posts
  • Reputation: 2

  • Facebook:

  • Twitter:
As far as international shipping goes, have you tried our i-Parcel option? The company usually makes customs much easier through pre-arranged agreements (more info is here). Any luck with that?
Joe Hadsall
Content Developer, Ellusionist.com
blog.ellusionist.com ~ www.facebook.com/ellusionist ~ www.twitter.com/ellusionist
"We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #137 on: July 02, 2013, 12:35:56 AM »
 

Don Boyer

  • VP/Dir. Club Forum/DAC Chair, 52 Plus Joker
  • Administrator
  • Forum Sentinel
  • *
  • 19,172
    Posts
  • Reputation: 415
  • Pick a card, any card...no, not THAT card!

  • Facebook:

That's what i meant. I know that 2,500 were printed and 405 made available to the public, i just personally think that maybe more were available than originally advertised (say 600 for example). Again, just an assumption and i have nothing to back up my claims =p

Since I have no reason not to believe them and it's quite common for magicians to hold back certain decks for themselves, I believe them when they say they only got 405 decks and Madison got the rest.  Originally, the black and inverse black Split Spades (pre-Lions; the Bee decks) and the red White Lions Series A decks were part of David Blaine's reserve, not intended for sale.

In terms of dragging in collectors, i think it was a pretty smart move. Of course collectors generally won't want to buy 12 decks of the same design.. so if they had a campaign based around say, "buy 12 decks and get 20% off your order!", that would be inefficient as there would be no incentive for collectors to jump in on the deal. However in this case, the incentive to buy a brick is that you'll get a rare, limited scarlet deck, and thus there is greater desire for collectors to purchase a brick to add the rare deck to their collection. What i'm trying to say is that i think they chose the right option between "buy 12 decks and get 20% off, and "buy 12 decks and get a rare deck", as the cost of both options would be similar, but there would be a greater overall demand for the 2nd option and thus greater levels of profit.

I would daresay that this was cheaper, since 20% off a brick is a little more than two free decks.

Also, don't fight it Don. You know deep inside that you were born to collect cards, perform tricks, and be the go to guy for related information =)) Realise your destiny, sell your house and wife, n bye ol de cerds in ze wurld!!1

When you can find a pack of cards that will make me breakfast, wash my laundry, clean the bathroom, wash the dishes AND snuggle in bed with me, then I might consider all of the above...  :))  And it has to earn half of the household income, too!
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #138 on: July 02, 2013, 03:48:38 AM »
 

therealmackay

  • True Member
  • *
  • 40
    Posts
  • Reputation: 3
Beautiful deck of cards, love the design work and love the fact that there are M's in the logo (same surname Initial).

Can't wait to give these bad boys a go. Got a cheeky Scarlet deck aswell, this will remain sealed!

Has anyone mastered the marking system yet? Any tips on doing so?

 
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #139 on: July 02, 2013, 03:53:58 AM »
 

Don Boyer

  • VP/Dir. Club Forum/DAC Chair, 52 Plus Joker
  • Administrator
  • Forum Sentinel
  • *
  • 19,172
    Posts
  • Reputation: 415
  • Pick a card, any card...no, not THAT card!

  • Facebook:
Beautiful deck of cards, love the design work and love the fact that there are M's in the logo (same surname Initial).

Can't wait to give these bad boys a go. Got a cheeky Scarlet deck aswell, this will remain sealed!

Has anyone mastered the marking system yet? Any tips on doing so?

You do it the same way you get to Carnegie Hall.  Practice, practice, practice!  :))

Do a little memorizing, then try reading the card backs and see how accurate you are.  Do it over and over until it becomes second nature to you.  Then put it down for a few days, pick it up and see how well you remembered the marking system.  If you still know it cold, great.  If not, you do it again the same way you get to Carnegie Hall.
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #140 on: July 02, 2013, 04:02:50 AM »
 

therealmackay

  • True Member
  • *
  • 40
    Posts
  • Reputation: 3


Beautiful deck of cards, love the design work and love the fact that there are M's in the logo (same surname Initial).

Can't wait to give these bad boys a go. Got a cheeky Scarlet deck aswell, this will remain sealed!

Has anyone mastered the marking system yet? Any tips on doing so?

You do it the same way you get to Carnegie Hall.  Practice, practice, practice!  :))

Do a little memorizing, then try reading the card backs and see how accurate you are.  Do it over and over until it becomes second nature to you.  Then put it down for a few days, pick it up and see how well you remembered the marking system.  If you still know it cold, great.  If not, you do it again the same way you get to Carnegie Hall.

Thank you Don, will ensure I practice practice practice.

Had a few problems lately hence my absence from the forum and card magic in general - nice to hear from a friendly face on my re-entry to the Aether space - cheers :)
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #141 on: July 02, 2013, 07:14:47 AM »
 

Paul.Middleton

  • Discourse Veteran
  • *
  • 309
    Posts
  • Reputation: 20
  • Owner of JP Playing Cards

  • Facebook:

  • Skype:

  • Twitter:
Can't wait to give these bad boys a go. Got a cheeky Scarlet deck aswell, this will remain sealed!

Nudge, nudge - where did you get the dealers? ;)
~Paul Middleton,
JP Playing Cards
---------------------
FREE WORLDWIDE DELIVERY (UK over £30, EU over £70 and Rest Of World over £80)

www.jpplayingcards.co.uk
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #142 on: July 02, 2013, 08:22:35 AM »
 

therealmackay

  • True Member
  • *
  • 40
    Posts
  • Reputation: 3
Can't wait to give these bad boys a go. Got a cheeky Scarlet deck aswell, this will remain sealed!

Nudge, nudge - where did you get the dealers? ;)

Haha! I picked up the dealers from the awesome JP Playing Cards - have you heard of them Paul ;) Will be posting later on the social networks about you guys!

Amazing service, as always! Thank you so much!
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #143 on: July 03, 2013, 11:27:03 AM »
 

S. Carey

  • Forum Regular
  • *
  • 112
    Posts
  • Reputation: 15

  • Facebook:

  • Kickstarter:
Took these out around some friends. Did a few tricks where I would "guess" the card. Freaked some people out as they couldn't figure out how I was doing it. I haven't even mastered the system yet but it's good enough to fool some folks.

I just have to say though people are always trying to figure out what you did. Whether it is asking you to perform the trick multiple times so they can watch it closer or if they simple ask to inspect the deck. I handed the deck over to a suspicious friend of mine and he quickly started inspecting it. He found the marking system but wasn't sure if that was a code for the cards or just part of the design. I'm surprised he found the dots that quick. At this point I will officially say the best tricks are done with old fashioned sleight of hand, no trick or marked decks. Period.
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #144 on: July 03, 2013, 05:50:00 PM »
 

Card Player

  • Extraordinaire
  • *
  • 1,054
    Posts
  • Reputation: 28
Took these out around some friends. Did a few tricks where I would "guess" the card. Freaked some people out as they couldn't figure out how I was doing it. I haven't even mastered the system yet but it's good enough to fool some folks.

I just have to say though people are always trying to figure out what you did. Whether it is asking you to perform the trick multiple times so they can watch it closer or if they simple ask to inspect the deck. I handed the deck over to a suspicious friend of mine and he quickly started inspecting it. He found the marking system but wasn't sure if that was a code for the cards or just part of the design. I'm surprised he found the dots that quick. At this point I will officially say the best tricks are done with old fashioned sleight of hand, no trick or marked decks. Period.

Although I agree with you partially about the sleight of hand. Being a novice magician always makes people more curious and wanting to find out how you did it. Because they know there is no other way Mr. Carey could have done it without a gag deck or telepathy. Most likely it's not telepathy, so it must be a gag deck of cards. I would not dare question someone who I knew was a real magician/deception artist and used a better trick/hustle thats not so direct like guessing the card. The best card work with this deck will be done when your victim is not aware that knowing the card by simply looking at the back is part of the trick or hustle. There is no misdirection in what your doing.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2013, 06:25:21 PM by Legacy »
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #145 on: July 03, 2013, 06:33:59 PM »
 

S. Carey

  • Forum Regular
  • *
  • 112
    Posts
  • Reputation: 15

  • Facebook:

  • Kickstarter:
I wouldn't even call myself a novice or beginner magician. I learned that a non magician simply can't buy a marked deck and automatically be a magician. It's more than what I tried to do. I agree it is misdirection. Most people know me as the guy who always has a cool deck of cards. I don't think any of my friends know me as a magician.
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #146 on: July 04, 2013, 12:09:37 AM »
 

Don Boyer

  • VP/Dir. Club Forum/DAC Chair, 52 Plus Joker
  • Administrator
  • Forum Sentinel
  • *
  • 19,172
    Posts
  • Reputation: 415
  • Pick a card, any card...no, not THAT card!

  • Facebook:
I, too, agree about the part of pure sleight of hand being so much better - but not always from the audience perspective.  I still get people who are mystified by the Rising Card trick.  I also get people who'd prefer the mystery of the trick over the knowledge of how it was achieved.  (I also get the opposite, but that's another story!)

His trick about guessing the cards could EASILY have been accomplished with the Madison Rounders, an UNMARKED deck.  The back color was specifically chosen so that, in conjunction with the finish, it would provide a reflective surface at close range.  This means that if he held the deck face down in one hand, the card just above the deck in the other, positioned just right, he'd be able to see the reflection of the index of the card on the back of the deck.  It's called a "shiner" and is a common gimmick used by magicians and gamblers.  (Never play cards with a man wearing a pinky ring that has a flat, shiny surface, especially when he's turned it inward while dealing!)  Often, magicians will hold the card higher and read from the mirror image of the bottom index, allowing the audience to see the top index.  After that, you could hand out the cards to be freely examined - there are no marks to be discovered.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 12:09:53 AM by Don Boyer »
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #147 on: July 04, 2013, 08:27:05 AM »
 

Card Player

  • Extraordinaire
  • *
  • 1,054
    Posts
  • Reputation: 28
Quote
(Never play cards with a man wearing a pinky ring that has a flat, shiny surface, especially when he's turned it inward while dealing!)

Ha Ha... I stick to professional casino poker tables these days (Foxwoods). I have enough things to be aware of at the poker table. I don't need all my attention focused on whose dealing. I used to play home games but I wanted stronger competition, a clean felt table and the feel of real clay chips (Paulson) in my hands.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 08:31:05 AM by Legacy »
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #148 on: July 06, 2013, 12:44:07 PM »
 

Card Player

  • Extraordinaire
  • *
  • 1,054
    Posts
  • Reputation: 28
I received my Madison Dealers yesterday. Had a chance to open a deck today. I could not be more thoroughly impressed. In fact both decks, Rounders and Dealers are works of playing card engineering art. Madison and Ellusionist have elevated whats to be expected for tools of their craft. The marking system is so subtle, yet clear enough to see and understand for the user. It almost reminds me of older printing method's that cant handle the defined detail of the image, so it spats or fills ink in small areas where its not supposed to be. If that makes sense to anyone?

Dealers pushes Madison Players into irrelevancy. I was not sure if Madison would want to create another marked deck after theory11. Players was that "did it already" concept with another company. They ended up building a better Madison brand marked deck with Ellusionist. These are exactly the types of decks I'm talking about when I post threads asking what decks are here to stay or gone tomorrow? People are going to buy these over and over again.   
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 08:12:48 PM by Legacy »
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #149 on: July 07, 2013, 12:59:33 AM »
 

Michael

  • Discourse Royalty
  • *
  • 493
    Posts
  • Reputation: 8
  • Ugh, I wish I had money for THAT deck!
In fact both decks, Rounders and Dealers are works of playing card engineering art. Madison and Ellusionist have elevated whats to be expected for tools of their craft.

I agree that both these decks are very well designed with the Rounders being nice in its simplicity and the Dealers being a very solidly designed borderless deck. I think Madison has gotten nice momentum with his decks and it makes me looking forward to any future decks he may have in mind.

It almost reminds me of older printing method's that cant handle the defined detail of the image, so it spats or fills ink in small areas where its not supposed to be. If that makes sense to anyone?   

Makes perfect sense to me. I'm reminded of CARC's recent Bee Erdnase 216 deck in which the art was not as clear as we see on current decks because they were supposed to be direct scans of a very old deck of cards. I liked the way those decks turned out partially due to the finish but also due to the art that made it look old.

I haven't purchased any Dealers yet because they're unlimited so I'm not missing out on anything. I know I'll pick them up when my budget allows though.
"The magician takes the ordinary something and makes it do something extraordinary. Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it, because of course you're not really looking. You don't really want to know. You want to be fooled."