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Madison Dealers by Ellusionist

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Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« on: March 08, 2013, 10:22:55 AM »
 

Nurul

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So, I was watching revelations 9 on youtube and there's some comments that caught my eye.

If you've not watched the clip, here's the link
http://youtu.be/jjQfMYGRTVE ..
At the 00:53 second mark it seems he's handling a deck of red rounders. Does anyone know much more about this?

« Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 12:28:49 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2013, 10:38:39 AM »
 

Pacis

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Definitely. He also says that the Red Wynn was his favorite deck, so probably gonna release a Red version of the Madisons.
 

Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2013, 10:40:28 AM »
 

Nurul

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Definitely looking forward to that :) probably won't b for a while though I'm guessing, maybe a limited version?
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2013, 11:04:48 AM »
 

phantom1412

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Isn't that Red Wynn?
 

Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2013, 02:55:00 PM »
 

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Isn't that Red Wynn?

I agree. Madison himself said how much he loved Wynns, especially the red ones. I also think he's using a Red Wynn, but I could be wrong.
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2013, 03:21:32 PM »
 

Nurul

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Isn't that Red Wynn?

I agree. Madison himself said how much he loved Wynns, especially the red ones. I also think he's using a Red Wynn, but I could be wrong.

he mentioned in the video that it's a secret project. Maybe the project is a red deck of rounders ...
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2013, 03:32:49 PM »
 

Card Player

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Well before revolutions 9, I thought there was going to be another color.

1. When you order rounders, on the order they are known as MADISONRBLCK. There is no need to add the BLCK on the name if black is the only version available. They would only be known as MADISONR or MADISONRNDR.

2. You have to listen how Daniel introduces the Rounders in revelations 9. He calls them Rounders Black Edition. Another hint there is more then one color available (RED).

These are indeed RED Madison Rounders.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 08:48:42 PM by Legacy »
 

Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2013, 05:26:17 PM »
 

Joker and the Thief

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Those are red rounders, the Wynn logo is slightly bigger, rounder and the deck it self is a darker red than what we see in the video.
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2013, 08:45:08 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Another deck to add to the list...  :))

I'd be interested.  The deck's appearance is great for poker, so having a poker set seems natural.
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2013, 08:46:18 PM »
 

Fanofyankees13

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Hmm....it's hard to tell, but yeah, the Wynn logo is a bit larger than the logo on these decks, which looks about the same as the logo on the black Rounders. We'll see soon enough.
“You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him.”

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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2013, 09:11:21 PM »
 

Nurul

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[well the logo is the official DM logo as seen on his players deck as well as his rounders. But, as mentioned before, Wynn deck is his favourite and he loves the look of a minimalistic deck. If only there was some kind of ellusionist member who has an account on here could maybe confirm that this deck will be out soon .... :))/color]
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2013, 09:12:30 PM »
 

John B.

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Do you really think he would? If he would then he would have just had daniel say it straight up.
Do you guys even read this? Like I could have the meaning of life here and I doubt you would know it.
 

Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2013, 09:45:31 PM »
 

Nurul

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Do you really think he would? If he would then he would have just had daniel say it straight up.

I didn't say anything about definitely confirming it, but there's nothin to say he can't hint at it ..
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2013, 09:51:04 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Do you really think he would? If he would then he would have just had daniel say it straight up.

Jake would if he was authorized to do so.
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2013, 09:54:26 PM »
 

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The deck looks great so far. I can't wait to see more, especially the court cards.
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2013, 09:56:58 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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The deck looks great so far. I can't wait to see more, especially the court cards.

Just out of curiosity, if this is the red version of the Madison Rounders, what makes you think it would have different courts?  :))
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2013, 10:02:13 PM »
 

Paul Carpenter

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The deck looks great so far. I can't wait to see more, especially the court cards.

Just out of curiosity, if this is the red version of the Madison Rounders, what makes you think it would have different courts?  :))

Open illustrator. Click back design shape. Select red. Sell thousands.  Nice business model.
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2013, 10:07:49 PM »
 

Nurul

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The deck looks great so far. I can't wait to see more, especially the court cards.

I don't think th courts r gona change. You'll still have DM as th KoD, his partner(?) as th QoD and his sons name on th JoD .. Also, I'm assuming, Justin Lianza is gona b on there too again
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2013, 10:38:49 PM »
 

KPopFever605

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The deck looks great so far. I can't wait to see more, especially the court cards.

Just out of curiosity, if this is the red version of the Madison Rounders, what makes you think it would have different courts?  :))
I thought if he changed the color of the back design, he might also change the color of the court cards. It's probably just me, but a red court card with a red back design doesn't sit right with me. You know, all you have to do is open illustrator, click the desired card. change the color, and sell thousands. ;)
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2013, 11:55:28 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Open illustrator. Click back design shape. Select red. Sell thousands.  Nice business model.

We KNOW this, bro.  It seems clear, as indicated by Legacy, that the second color was intended from the beginning.  E just opted to release them at separate times, perhaps with the idea of making the reds be a rare deck to replace their dwindling stock of rares.  BG1E is already an "endangered species" now, since it's been removed from regular gift tiers - or does E even still have gift tiers anymore?

The deck looks great so far. I can't wait to see more, especially the court cards.

Just out of curiosity, if this is the red version of the Madison Rounders, what makes you think it would have different courts?  :))
I thought if he changed the color of the back design, he might also change the color of the court cards. It's probably just me, but a red court card with a red back design doesn't sit right with me. You know, all you have to do is open illustrator, click the desired card. change the color, and sell thousands. ;)

Hmm, that statement looks awfully FAMILIAR...  :))

It's rare that someone changes the court colors to match a different color of the same design.  It makes the deck less convenient for games - players like different backs but the same faces from deck to deck in an all-night neighborhood poker game.

It's one thing if a company builds its reputation by recycling the same designs for months or even years, doing little more than tweaking the color scheme.

It's a different thing if a company's releasing a few colors of the same deck at once, or even over a short time, particularly if there's a demand for it.  Only the dumbest of business people ignore their customers' desires.  It's why we have Ornate decks in four colors now instead of only two, why there's so many different Crown deck colors, why Bee Stingers are black and red, etc.  As I said above, it's clear they intended two colors all along.

These decks take time to design and make - you don't honestly think that they made the blacks, then did this afterwards as an afterthought or a reply to customer requests or something, do you?  If Daniel Madison has them in his hands already, odds are they were printed weeks if not months ago.  I'm still seeing new releases with AoS codes indicating a print date in late 2012 - a prime example being the new Erdnase 216 Squeezers, which were printed on the next-to-last week of last year.  (Yes, it's odd for custom releases to have an AoS code, but those do.)
« Last Edit: March 09, 2013, 12:00:52 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2013, 07:27:29 AM »
 

Card Player

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We KNOW this, bro.  It seems clear, as indicated by Legacy, that the second color was intended from the beginning.  E just opted to release them at separate times, perhaps with the idea of making the reds be a rare deck to replace their dwindling stock of rares.  BG1E is already an "endangered species" now, since it's been removed from regular gift tiers - or does E even still have gift tiers anymore?

I hope they are not rare. While I certainly enjoy having rare decks, the anticipation of trying to acquire them is nerve-racking. I'd be good with a limited release window of 24 - 48 hours if making this deck rare is E's intention.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2013, 07:28:33 AM by Legacy »
 

Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2013, 09:43:49 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I hope they are not rare. While I certainly enjoy having rare decks, the anticipation of trying to acquire them is nerve-racking. I'd be good with a limited release window of 24 - 48 hours if making this deck rare is E's intention.

It's just a hypothesis.  They often release different colors on different release dates.  Look at all of the Artifice decks - six at last count, every one released on a different day.
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2013, 03:58:18 AM »
 

Aaron

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I hope they release these like the Red Artifice, it gives me a bit of a "rush" trying to get the decks and the anticipation of them coming out. I havn't had a chance at that feeling for a while now ;)
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2013, 04:15:12 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I hope they release these like the Red Artifice, it gives me a bit of a "rush" trying to get the decks and the anticipation of them coming out. I havn't had a chance at that feeling for a while now ;)

You want a "rush", play the lottery!  The Red Artifice release was a PR disaster for Ellusionist because of the huge number of frustrated buyers getting locked out by servers that were nearly immobilized with the deluge of traffic.  Just give me a straight-up legit release over that nonsense any day.
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2013, 04:20:10 AM »
 

Aaron

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I hope they release these like the Red Artifice, it gives me a bit of a "rush" trying to get the decks and the anticipation of them coming out. I havn't had a chance at that feeling for a while now ;)

You want a "rush", play the lottery!  The Red Artifice release was a PR disaster for Ellusionist because of the huge number of frustrated buyers getting locked out by servers that were nearly immobilized with the deluge of traffic.  Just give me a straight-up legit release over that nonsense any day.
Haha Maybe if the people were quicker they wouldn't get locked out ;)

 I can see why people get mad about those types of releases though.

But personally it is the funest thing about getting cards, I like to see the people who missed out get mad and have to pay more to resellers. But it does suck when you are the one paying more.
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2013, 04:50:03 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Haha Maybe if the people were quicker they wouldn't get locked out ;)

 I can see why people get mad about those types of releases though.

But personally it is the funest thing about getting cards, I like to see the people who missed out get mad and have to pay more to resellers. But it does suck when you are the one paying more.

It had nothing to do with speed - the fastest "clickers" weren't necessarily the ones who got through to make a purchase.  It was total chaos.

You LIKE seeing people get mad and paying more to resellers?  You think it's "funest" thing?  You, my friend, must have a lot of bad karma, in addition to poor spelling...  May you ALWAYS be the one paying more...  :))

For me, if it's suddenly crazy-expensive, I have little trouble writing it off and getting the next deck.  They're like trains - there's always another one coming down the track.

But back to the point - this is all speculation.  For all we know, they'll start giving away red Rounders by the brick with props, gaffs and stripper decks on their designated "Play More Magic Day"...

...but I'm not exactly holding my breath on that...
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2013, 07:45:38 AM »
 

agera94

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Yeah can't say I agree with releasing them like the red artifice or even white monarchs. The first window failed because the whole T11 site went down for a few hours. Regardless of how early or late you were, it all depended on whether or not you could hit every step of the checkout process during the half-second of a lesser traffic spike. It was a disaster too.

I'm somewhat hoping that this will be a black club exclusive, but am looking forward to its release regardless.
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2013, 09:52:01 AM »
 

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I hope they release these like the Red Artifice, it gives me a bit of a "rush" trying to get the decks and the anticipation of them coming out.

E wants to make customers happy... If allowing customers to buy their products is what makes people happy, that's a Win/Win. The limited or unlimited quantity does not change the anticipation for me.  I absolutely want these.

Quote
For all we know, they'll start giving away red Rounders by the brick with props, gaffs and stripper decks on their designated "Play More Magic Day"...

Your probably right about that. Individuals within Daniel's circle most likely have the Red Rounders already.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2013, 02:35:10 PM by Legacy »
 

Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2013, 10:18:43 AM »
 

Nurul

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i had a very card related dream last night, and that was that red rounders were only exclusive to black club members :)) that would b good for those that r members, I can't c th black artifice being the only deck available for purchase, so red rounders will be a nice addition. Of course, is expect them to limit the supply per member too (IF it were to happen)
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2013, 10:32:47 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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i had a very card related dream last night, and that was that red rounders were only exclusive to black club members :)) that would b good for those that r members, I can't c th black artifice being the only deck available for purchase, so red rounders will be a nice addition. Of course, is expect them to limit the supply per member too (IF it were to happen)

Ah, the Queen's English...  after the stroke...  :))

Black Club members will likely just get first crack.  If Ellusionist marketed more decks just to Black Club members, they'd be limiting their customer pool to only BC members - it's hard to sell out a deck printed in the thousands with only a few hundred potential customers...
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2013, 10:39:25 AM »
 

Nurul

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Yeah, but surely they'll have more than just the one deck available, exclusively, to black club members. It'd b nice of it were this one :)

ps it's queens English, nonetheless :))
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2013, 08:18:37 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Yeah, but surely they'll have more than just the one deck available, exclusively, to black club members. It'd b nice of it were this one :)

ps it's queens English, nonetheless :))


I'm not saying it's impossible, but I am saying that it's unlikely.  If more people were members, perhaps.  Dude, making a print run of playing cards costs EM-OH-EN-EE-WHY, with a capital MONEY.  Limiting access to your products works to a point to spark interest - after that, it simply gets expensive.
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2013, 02:19:51 AM »
 

sinsandman

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Being as I am still currently on the fence on buying a BC membership, I would like to see these released to everyone. But hell, if I ever do pull the trigger for a membership, I am down for it to be an exclusive. Either way, DM decks are a win. btw, I heard they released the BC boxes for individual sell?
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2013, 02:52:19 AM »
 

Michael

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Being as I am still currently on the fence on buying a BC membership, I would like to see these released to everyone. But hell, if I ever do pull the trigger for a membership, I am down for it to be an exclusive. Either way, DM decks are a win. btw, I heard they released the BC boxes for individual sell?

Looking at the store's website shows that there are black club boxes for $19.99 but clicking it brought me to the "subscribe for updates" page suggesting it's not avaliable yet. But it's still a Black Club member exclusive item.
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2013, 03:02:18 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Being as I am still currently on the fence on buying a BC membership, I would like to see these released to everyone. But hell, if I ever do pull the trigger for a membership, I am down for it to be an exclusive. Either way, DM decks are a win. btw, I heard they released the BC boxes for individual sell?

Guys - it was never more than sheer speculation that this deck would even be RARE, never mind being a Black Club exclusive!

Black Club boxes?  If you mean the Artifice deck, no, only to members and only two extra beyond the one you get with a membership, $18 each.  If you mean the collector's box that comes with the membership, they're listed in the Black Club Store at $19.95, but clicking through to the item page only shows a single review for the box with no links, buttons, etc. to purchase it - there isn't even a product description.  I like that box as much as the next guy, but I'm not too sure I'd be shelling out extra for more of them.  They're crazy-bulky, longer than a brick, and there's a good deal of empty space in the box that's too small to fit a deck into.  And even if they were purchasable, they're still in the Black Club store - you have to be a member and you have to be logged in with your account to make a purchase.
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2013, 05:57:56 AM »
 

sinsandman

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Thank you for the clear up on the collectors box. As for the Red Rounders decks...of course all of this is just speculation and nothing more. As with all releases or lack there of, everything is speculation until the time comes for clarity.
These may not even get released at all...who knows?
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2013, 08:40:56 AM »
 

Joker and the Thief

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Found this on Instagram... This may be the Red Rounders. DM has a love for Wynn (especially red ones) and designed his cards to be reminiscent if them. I'm guessing this is just a Wynn box, however I wouldn't be surprised of he designed the red rounders to be this way.

Source: benoitpervier
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2013, 10:25:18 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Found this on Instagram... This may be the Red Rounders. DM has a love for Wynn (especially red ones) and designed his cards to be reminiscent if them. I'm guessing this is just a Wynn box, however I wouldn't be surprised of he designed the red rounders to be this way.

Source: benoitpervier

Unless you've got the gift of second sight or something, how can you tell?  It's a black-and-white photo and you can't even see the card back!  And who's that image source?  Unless you know it's from Ellusionist or Madison, that could simply be a dude taking a picture of his own black Rounders in a Bee Casino box.
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #38 on: March 11, 2013, 10:31:35 AM »
 

Joker and the Thief

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Found this on Instagram... This may be the Red Rounders. DM has a love for Wynn (especially red ones) and designed his cards to be reminiscent if them. I'm guessing this is just a Wynn box, however I wouldn't be surprised of he designed the red rounders to be this way.

Source: benoitpervier

Unless you've got the gift of second sight or something, how can you tell?  It's a black-and-white photo and you can't even see the card back!  And who's that image source?  Unless you know it's from Ellusionist or Madison, that could simply be a dude taking a picture of his own black Rounders in a Bee Casino box.

Well this guy tends to have things sent to him via Madison himself, yes not the most reliable source. However it is interesting due to link between Madison's love for Wynn playing cards and the Rounders. If these were them (a massive if, mind you) it'd be interesting to see if Madison would go as close as he could to Wynn styling.
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2013, 11:18:22 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Found this on Instagram... This may be the Red Rounders. DM has a love for Wynn (especially red ones) and designed his cards to be reminiscent if them. I'm guessing this is just a Wynn box, however I wouldn't be surprised of he designed the red rounders to be this way.

Source: benoitpervier

Unless you've got the gift of second sight or something, how can you tell?  It's a black-and-white photo and you can't even see the card back!  And who's that image source?  Unless you know it's from Ellusionist or Madison, that could simply be a dude taking a picture of his own black Rounders in a Bee Casino box.

Well this guy tends to have things sent to him via Madison himself, yes not the most reliable source. However it is interesting due to link between Madison's love for Wynn playing cards and the Rounders. If these were them (a massive if, mind you) it'd be interesting to see if Madison would go as close as he could to Wynn styling.

Personally, I imagine that Madison/Ellusionist will make the red Rounders...EXACTLY like the black ones!  Except for the obvious color-changed back, naturally...  :))  There's no solid reason to believe they'd be any different.
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #40 on: March 11, 2013, 11:23:54 AM »
 

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Found this on Instagram... This may be the Red Rounders. DM has a love for Wynn (especially red ones) and designed his cards to be reminiscent if them. I'm guessing this is just a Wynn box, however I wouldn't be surprised of he designed the red rounders to be this way.

Source: benoitpervier

Yup... Its nothing more then an opened casino bee tuck box with rounders cards placed in it. The person who took the photo is probably implicating the similarity between the Wynn's and Rounders through photography. A side by side would have been better. I don't own Wynn's. If anyone has both decks, would enjoy seeing a side by side here.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 11:29:52 AM by Legacy »
 

Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2013, 12:17:15 PM »
 

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Yup... Its nothing more then an opened casino bee tuck box with rounders cards placed in it. The person who took the photo is probably implicating the similarity between the Wynn's and Rounders through photography. A side by side would have been better. I don't own Wynn's. If anyone has both decks, would enjoy seeing a side by side here.

Wish granted.

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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2013, 01:40:20 PM »
 

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Players are still at the top of my list. DM can do no wrong...yet
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #43 on: March 12, 2013, 04:07:06 AM »
 

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Well before revolutions 9, I thought there was going to be another color.

1. When you order rounders, on the order they are known as MADISONRBLCK. There is no need to add the BLCK on the name if black is the only version available. They would only be known as MADISONR or MADISONRNDR.

2. You have to listen how Daniel introduces the Rounders in revelations 9. He calls them Rounders Black Edition. Another hint there is more then one color available (RED).

These are indeed RED Madison Rounders.

Ever heard of 'Black' Tigers? Have you heard of White Tigers? Or Blue Tigers? Or 'Slightly Reddish Salmon Tigers'
The 1800 'Series'? Not really much of a 'Series' there.
First Edition Artifice? They were called 'BLUEARTIFICE' before Dave, our webmaster who enters all these things, even knew that Red Artifice was going to exist, let alone Green, Purple or Black.

What it comes down to is 'How do we make these easily identifiable when picking an order' - the answer is most often 'Describe it' - and make it simple. We had problems with 'SULTANR' and 'SULTANT' (Republic and Treasury) so Republics were renamed back of house 'SULTANRBLCK' - despite a) them not actually being black, and b) there not being a White, Red, Blue, Brown, Purple or Green Republic. There's no real rhyme or reason behind Dave's naming conventions. He calls things what he wants.

I can't confirm or deny if Red, Teal, Aubergine, Cyan, Burnt Sienna, Aquamarine, Lilac, Mustard or Taupe Rounders exist - or are ever going to be made - but I can tell you that there are no Rounders decks currently on my release calendar - there is however, another two decks that are.

-Jake.
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #44 on: March 12, 2013, 05:44:20 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Well before revolutions 9, I thought there was going to be another color.

1. When you order rounders, on the order they are known as MADISONRBLCK. There is no need to add the BLCK on the name if black is the only version available. They would only be known as MADISONR or MADISONRNDR.

2. You have to listen how Daniel introduces the Rounders in revelations 9. He calls them Rounders Black Edition. Another hint there is more then one color available (RED).

These are indeed RED Madison Rounders.

Ever heard of 'Black' Tigers? Have you heard of White Tigers? Or Blue Tigers? Or 'Slightly Reddish Salmon Tigers'
The 1800 'Series'? Not really much of a 'Series' there.
First Edition Artifice? They were called 'BLUEARTIFICE' before Dave, our webmaster who enters all these things, even knew that Red Artifice was going to exist, let alone Green, Purple or Black.

What it comes down to is 'How do we make these easily identifiable when picking an order' - the answer is most often 'Describe it' - and make it simple. We had problems with 'SULTANR' and 'SULTANT' (Republic and Treasury) so Republics were renamed back of house 'SULTANRBLCK' - despite a) them not actually being black, and b) there not being a White, Red, Blue, Brown, Purple or Green Republic. There's no real rhyme or reason behind Dave's naming conventions. He calls things what he wants.

I can't confirm or deny if Red, Teal, Aubergine, Cyan, Burnt Sienna, Aquamarine, Lilac, Mustard or Taupe Rounders exist - or are ever going to be made - but I can tell you that there are no Rounders decks currently on my release calendar - there is however, another two decks that are.

-Jake.

...as he enigmatically leaves the projects unnamed...  :))  Hey, how about Spam Rounders?

Thanks for settling that.  So it would seem Daniel Madison was using a pack of red Wynns for that video, unless he was feeling flush enough to make some Red Rounders for himself as his private stash (odds: slim to none).

And now I'll go add two unnamed Ellusionist projects to the New Deck Report...
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #45 on: March 13, 2013, 05:47:17 PM »
 

Card Player

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Quote
What it comes down to is 'How do we make these easily identifiable when picking an order' - the answer is most often 'Describe it' - and make it simple. We had problems with 'SULTANR' and 'SULTANT' (Republic and Treasury) so Republics were renamed back of house 'SULTANRBLCK' - despite a) them not actually being black, and b) there not being a White, Red, Blue, Brown, Purple or Green Republic. There's no real rhyme or reason behind Dave's naming conventions. He calls things what he wants.

I can't confirm or deny if Red, Teal, Aubergine, Cyan, Burnt Sienna, Aquamarine, Lilac, Mustard or Taupe Rounders exist - or are ever going to be made - but I can tell you that there are no Rounders decks currently on my release calendar - there is however, another two decks that are.

Maybe I seem to be reading much more into your chosen words here then you are intending. I understand you can't confirm OR deny another existing color of Rounders playing cards. That does not mean that they don't exist either. Only that Ellusionist does not "currently" plan to release another color of Madison Rounders. Could there be a "Burnt Sienna" deck named something other then "Rounders" using the same design?  Who knows! Why does Daniel make a point of calling the current Madison Rounders "Black Edition"? I know the theory11 Artisans are also known as "Black Edition". I'm not saying there is another edition of Artisans that exist but it does leave the door purposely open to possibilities.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 05:53:28 PM by Legacy »
 

Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #46 on: March 13, 2013, 11:48:55 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Maybe I seem to be reading much more into your chosen words here then you are intending. I understand you can't confirm OR deny another existing color of Rounders playing cards. That does not mean that they don't exist either. Only that Ellusionist does not "currently" plan to release another color of Madison Rounders. Could there be a "Burnt Sienna" deck named something other then "Rounders" using the same design?  Who knows! Why does Daniel make a point of calling the current Madison Rounders "Black Edition"? I know the theory11 Artisans are also known as "Black Edition". I'm not saying there is another edition of Artisans that exist but it does leave the door purposely open to possibilities.

YES, you are reading too much into it!  Even Freud acknowledged that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar...  :))

He clearly said there are no Rounders decks on the release calendar.  Look:

I can't confirm or deny if Red, Teal, Aubergine, Cyan, Burnt Sienna, Aquamarine, Lilac, Mustard or Taupe Rounders exist - or are ever going to be made - but I can tell you that there are no Rounders decks currently on my release calendar - there is however, another two decks that are.

-Jake.


That sounds really straightforward to me.  Will there be some on his calendar at some future date?  I'd tell you but I left my crystal ball in my other pair of pants...
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #47 on: March 16, 2013, 02:06:42 PM »
 

KPopFever605

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Why does Daniel make a point of calling the current Madison Rounders "Black Edition"? I know the theory11 Artisans are also known as "Black Edition".

Have you ever thought that maybe he wanted too? I'd do that if I were him. It makes the deck have a certain finesse and an increased professionalism.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 02:10:41 PM by KPopFever605 »
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #48 on: March 16, 2013, 05:36:17 PM »
 

Card Player

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Why does Daniel make a point of calling the current Madison Rounders "Black Edition"? I know the theory11 Artisans are also known as "Black Edition".

Have you ever thought that maybe he wanted too? I'd do that if I were him. It makes the deck have a certain finesse and an increased professionalism.

Unless he has no control of his brain, of course he wanted too. I highly doubt it has anything to do with finesse and increased professionalism. My reading into any choice of word only gives an alternative opinion for the sake argument. Either it came out thinking nothing of it or It was leaving the door open to the existence of another color. Unable to confirm or deny that fact basically tells me what I want to know. 
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 05:58:59 PM by Legacy »
 

Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #49 on: March 17, 2013, 12:48:21 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Why does Daniel make a point of calling the current Madison Rounders "Black Edition"? I know the theory11 Artisans are also known as "Black Edition".

Have you ever thought that maybe he wanted too? I'd do that if I were him. It makes the deck have a certain finesse and an increased professionalism.

Unless he has no control of his brain, of course he wanted too. I highly doubt it has anything to do with finesse and increased professionalism. My reading into any choice of word only gives an alternative opinion for the sake argument. Either it came out thinking nothing of it or It was leaving the door open to the existence of another color. Unable to confirm or deny that fact basically tells me what I want to know.

Guys, it's really very simple.  Jake/Xntrix, an employee of Ellusionist who would know these things, said there's no other color of Rounders on the release calendar.  So there are no other Rounders.  Will there be in the future?  It could happen, just like purple Artifice decks happened.  But the fact that it's not on the calendar makes it sound as if it's not even at some point in production or design, either.

As far as "leaving the door open to other possibilities" - that door is no more open or closed than it would have been if the deck didn't have any edition name on it!  It's not finesse, it's not increased professionalism, nor is it an implication of future versions - it's MARKETING, plain and simple.  He could call it the Peanut Butter edition, but that doesn't imply that Jelly, Jam, Wheat Bread and White Bread editions are in the works.  Or there could have been NO edition name on it.  None if it matters.  It got the name it got to make it appear more attractive when being marketed in order to increase sales, without which no for-profit company will survive.

When T11 released the "Black Stingers", they were simply called Stingers.  It was when the Red Stingers released that the black ones were retroactively given that name by the people buying them in the collectors' market to make them easier to tell apart.  Some even call them "White Stingers", though that group tends to be in the minority since the red ones are also white.  Didn't matter one bit that the first ones weren't called "Black Stingers" in the first place.  When Ellusionist released the Masters Edition decks in red and blue, I don't think it was originally the game plan to make the Shadow Masters edition - but here it is, in all its glory.  Same for when T11 released the "version 1" of any of their decks that had more than one version.  They never were called "version 1" until version 2 was in the works.  We didn't start calling the original Bicycle Steam Punk deck the "copper Steam Punks" until the USPC "brass" version, then along came the Silver Steampunks, the name of which implies that some person or people at USPC and/or T11 who are in charge of these deck names also identified with the other decks by their metallic coloring.

The converse also holds true.  Who here has the Bicycle Limited Edition Series decks #1 and #2?  Are you holding your breath waiting for #3, or any other decks from the planned ten-deck series?  Or the Vintage Series - you think there are any plans on the schedule for the remaining six backs in the series to be released?  The naming convention implies there will be more, but there aren't, and it doesn't appear that there are any longer any plans to be, either.

The names mean bupkiss when it comes to determining whether more varieties of a given deck will exist.  It has everything to do with sales and the preferences of the people making these decks.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2013, 12:53:15 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #50 on: March 26, 2013, 05:45:37 PM »
 

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Ahem! Just saw this on Ricky Smith's Instagram...
Looks pretty genuine even though Ricky mentioned Photoshop. It was sent by Madison.
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #51 on: March 26, 2013, 08:44:53 PM »
 

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REDemption

Not "currently" on the release calendar or the Burnt Sienna version is NOT called "Rounders".

I won't rush to judgment incase this is a fake.

« Last Edit: March 28, 2013, 09:29:32 PM by Legacy »
 

Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #52 on: March 26, 2013, 09:17:04 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Ahem! Just saw this on Ricky Smith's Instagram...
Looks pretty genuine even though Ricky mentioned Photoshop. It was sent by Madison.

Lucky coincidence - I have a meeting at CARC tomorrow, Ricky should be there.  I'll ask him.
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #53 on: March 27, 2013, 01:04:37 AM »
 

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A photo from our old friend Benoitpervier.
You could argue that that is just a red Wynn but do red wynns have thin borders like that? I think not.
I also cannot think of a deck with a solid black back and thin borders. Also, notice that the borders are the same thickness on both the red and black cards.
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #54 on: March 27, 2013, 01:15:52 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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A photo from our old friend Benoitpervier.
You could argue that that is just a red Wynn but do red wynns have thin borders like that? I think not.
I also cannot think of a deck with a solid black back and thin borders. Also, notice that the borders are the same thickness on both the red and black cards.

Or you could argue that someone used photo-editing software to alter the color of one sole card back in the spread.  As I said, I'll ask Ricky about it since I'll probably see him tomorrow.
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #55 on: March 28, 2013, 06:33:56 AM »
 

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I really hope the answer would be positive, I am a great fan of red  :t11:
 

Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #56 on: March 28, 2013, 01:56:01 PM »
 

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Sorry for off-topic, It Smells Like Feet...
 

Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #57 on: March 28, 2013, 02:31:26 PM »
 

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Sorry for off-topic, It Smells Like Feet...

LOL, that is what I'd call a real sharp eye.
 

Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #58 on: March 28, 2013, 11:34:29 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Sorry for off-topic, It Smells Like Feet...

LOL, that is what I'd call a real sharp eye.

Makes me glad I got a pedicure before posting that...

I didn't see Ricky today, but I'll be calling CARC tomorrow and I'll ask for him.
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #59 on: April 18, 2013, 10:45:58 AM »
 

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I also found this photo of a possible Red Rounders deck ... http://www.unitedcardists.com/viewtopic.php?t=1572&p=17838

In almost two months you'll know for sure if will be a Red Rounders or not.
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #60 on: April 18, 2013, 12:12:04 PM »
 

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I also found this photo of a possible Red Rounders deck ... http://www.unitedcardists.com/viewtopic.php?t=1572&p=17838

In almost two months you'll know for sure if will be a Red Rounders or not.

That's the same photo JT posted a few posts above this one. All still talk until we see a product on thier product page.
"The magician takes the ordinary something and makes it do something extraordinary. Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it, because of course you're not really looking. You don't really want to know. You want to be fooled."
 

Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #61 on: April 18, 2013, 11:43:43 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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I also found this photo of a possible Red Rounders deck ... http://www.unitedcardists.com/viewtopic.php?t=1572&p=17838

In almost two months you'll know for sure if will be a Red Rounders or not.

That's the same photo JT posted a few posts above this one. All still talk until we see a product on thier product page.

Guys, remember that I wrote this in the thread earlier...


Guys, it's really very simple.  Jake/Xntrix, an employee of Ellusionist who would know these things, said there's no other color of Rounders on the release calendar.  So there are no other Rounders.  Will there be in the future?  It could happen, just like purple Artifice decks happened.  But the fact that it's not on the calendar makes it sound as if it's not even at some point in production or design, either.

It's not impossible that there is or will be a red Rounders deck - but it's also pretty unlikely.  Unless they're keeping it SO secret, they're not telling their HUGE roster of (a dozen or so) employees...  Which is even MORE unlikely...
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #62 on: April 19, 2013, 12:22:20 AM »
 

Siegismyname

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Don. So did u manage to ask Ricky smith?
 

Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #63 on: April 19, 2013, 12:49:02 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Don. So did u manage to ask Ricky smith?

No, I didn't see him that day; I was pressed for time with another appointment and a magic gig after that.  I was so tired by day's end that I got on the right train home - in the wrong direction!
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #64 on: June 12, 2013, 07:50:07 PM »
 

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REDemption

Not "currently" on the release calendar or the Burnt Sienna version is NOT called "Rounders".

I won't rush to judgment incase this is a fake.

@DANIELmadison has something new brewing and about to be released at Ellusionist. As mentioned previously by jake @Ellusionist, at the time he would only confirm 2 decks on the Ellusionist calendar. Today we now know these decks as "eXecutive" and "Artifice Tundra". As I mentioned before if there is a burnt sienna version of the Madison deck it might not be called "rounders". All falling in line with Jakes statement of no other rounders deck known to exist. With the new teasers, the theory is the burnt sienna deck is now the next deck on the calendar for release and its called "Madison Dealers".

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 07:58:23 PM by Legacy »
 

Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #65 on: June 12, 2013, 09:36:11 PM »
 

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REDemption

Not "currently" on the release calendar or the Burnt Sienna version is NOT called "Rounders".

I won't rush to judgment incase this is a fake.

@DANIELmadison has something new brewing and about to be released at Ellusionist. As mentioned previously by jake @Ellusionist, at the time he would only confirm 2 decks on the Ellusionist calendar. Today we now know these decks as "eXecutive" and "Artifice Tundra". As I mentioned before if there is a burnt sienna version of the Madison deck it might not be called "rounders". All falling in line with Jakes statement of no other rounders deck known to exist. With the new teasers, the theory is the burnt sienna deck is now the next deck on the calendar for release and its called "Madison Dealers".

Thoughts?

I reread the Instagram photo from Ricky Smith.  It does look like his sense of humor to mention "or I'm really good at Photoshop, etc."  I doubt the image is Photoshopped - and just because they didn't exist at the time, doesn't mean they don't exist now, right?
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #66 on: June 12, 2013, 09:51:35 PM »
 

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REDemption

Not "currently" on the release calendar or the Burnt Sienna version is NOT called "Rounders".

I won't rush to judgment incase this is a fake.

@DANIELmadison has something new brewing and about to be released at Ellusionist. As mentioned previously by jake @Ellusionist, at the time he would only confirm 2 decks on the Ellusionist calendar. Today we now know these decks as "eXecutive" and "Artifice Tundra". As I mentioned before if there is a burnt sienna version of the Madison deck it might not be called "rounders". All falling in line with Jakes statement of no other rounders deck known to exist. With the new teasers, the theory is the burnt sienna deck is now the next deck on the calendar for release and its called "Madison Dealers".

Thoughts?

I reread the Instagram photo from Ricky Smith.  It does look like his sense of humor to mention "or I'm really good at Photoshop, etc."  I doubt the image is Photoshopped - and just because they didn't exist at the time, doesn't mean they don't exist now, right?

True... We will see... Madness

What happened to that meeting you were going to have with Ricky Smith? Have you been sworn to secrecy?
 

Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #67 on: June 12, 2013, 10:53:46 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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REDemption

Not "currently" on the release calendar or the Burnt Sienna version is NOT called "Rounders".

I won't rush to judgment incase this is a fake.

@DANIELmadison has something new brewing and about to be released at Ellusionist. As mentioned previously by jake @Ellusionist, at the time he would only confirm 2 decks on the Ellusionist calendar. Today we now know these decks as "eXecutive" and "Artifice Tundra". As I mentioned before if there is a burnt sienna version of the Madison deck it might not be called "rounders". All falling in line with Jakes statement of no other rounders deck known to exist. With the new teasers, the theory is the burnt sienna deck is now the next deck on the calendar for release and its called "Madison Dealers".

Thoughts?

I reread the Instagram photo from Ricky Smith.  It does look like his sense of humor to mention "or I'm really good at Photoshop, etc."  I doubt the image is Photoshopped - and just because they didn't exist at the time, doesn't mean they don't exist now, right?

True... We will see... Madness

What happened to that meeting you were going to have with Ricky Smith? Have you been sworn to secrecy?

I actually saw him last week - forgot to mention it!  At least I remembered to wish him a belated happy birthday.

If I see him tomorrow (chances are small but not impossible) I'll try to remember.

I did get a message from the Black Club Concierge tonight - but no new deck.  They did say that Rounders are back in stock, along with Black Artifice and Blue LTD, and that until Sunday at midnight if you buy any 12 decks you'll get a free Sultan Republic, and if you buy six more on top of that you'll get a free Red LTD as well.  Plus Black Club members have a limited time offer of 25% off Artifact coins.

Oh, and there was that teaser trailer...

...with Daniel Madison...

...flashing around some cards...

...and did I mention that the same logo from his previous decks appears at the start of the teaser, in a brief flash?

...https://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=OWeSkN0QtN0
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 10:58:22 PM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #68 on: June 13, 2013, 11:08:06 AM »
 

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http://youtube.com/watch?v=2OKHulpHxEo

Teaser #2 was posted yesterday, 06/12.

Madness #legacysaid

Quote
...and did I mention that the same logo from his previous decks appears at the start of the teaser, in a brief flash?

The Madison logo always flashes on his videos. Check out his "shenanigans" on the Ellusionist Revelations videos. However, the Teaser #2 has something a bit different at the beginning, an inverse color of his logo. Do I dare say WHITE?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 01:13:51 PM by Legacy »
 

Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #69 on: June 14, 2013, 01:40:35 AM »
 

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http://youtube.com/watch?v=2OKHulpHxEo

Teaser #2 was posted yesterday, 06/12.

Madness #legacysaid

Quote
...and did I mention that the same logo from his previous decks appears at the start of the teaser, in a brief flash?

The Madison logo always flashes on his videos. Check out his "shenanigans" on the Ellusionist Revelations videos. However, the Teaser #2 has something a bit different at the beginning, an inverse color of his logo. Do I dare say WHITE?

No, you don't dare!  :)). I suspect you're reading too much into that.  It's a red herring at best...
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #70 on: June 14, 2013, 04:41:31 AM »
 

agera94

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Madison has built his career around deception and ruse. For all we know, it's actually a new line of shirts or some hand lotion.
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #71 on: June 14, 2013, 08:53:24 AM »
 

Paul.Middleton

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My gut is that it's a new deck which is a slightly variation of the rounders, but not the rounders.

Maybe a different colour with different courts (that are not his friend this time) but a different 'set' of people?
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #72 on: June 14, 2013, 09:39:25 PM »
 

Magic_Orthodoxy

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word on the street is it's a rounders gaff deck
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #73 on: June 15, 2013, 02:08:08 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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My guesses:

T-shirt - NO.

Hand lotion - double NO.

Rounders variant - eh, not with different court faces, at the least.

Gaff deck - not impossible; E hasn't produced a new gaff deck in a long time.  But I would think that they'd sooner make a gaff deck for their flagship product line, Artifice, than they would for Madison's Rounders.

Now, a GAFFED deck is possible.  E stopped production on its stripper decks - perhaps this is a revival.  I'm hoping it's not Invisible, Rising Card, Svengali or Forcing - they're useful but not as versatile.  Marked would be REALLY sweet, but he's done that already with his Players deck at T11.

Another possibility: Madison's all into the gambling mystique, especially when he talked about his Rounders ability to be used as shiners.  Maybe a revival of the shiner ring would be a sweet idea.

But I don't think it's any of that.  I think it really is just another back color for the Rounders.  Most people do play poker using a two-deck matched set, after all.  The deck's a hit, sold out at least once - it makes sense.
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #74 on: June 17, 2013, 06:50:04 PM »
 

Paul.Middleton

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Most people do play poker using a two-deck matched set, after all.  The deck's a hit, sold out at least once - it makes sense.

I understand that and take your point, but are Ellusionist really thinking about people playing poker? Vanda Cards yes, Encarded maybe, not sure about Ellusionist.
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #75 on: June 17, 2013, 07:03:03 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Most people do play poker using a two-deck matched set, after all.  The deck's a hit, sold out at least once - it makes sense.

I understand that and take your point, but are Ellusionist really thinking about people playing poker? Vanda Cards yes, Encarded maybe, not sure about Ellusionist.

Well, poker, maybe not - but gambling demonstrations, oh yeah...
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #76 on: June 19, 2013, 11:23:23 AM »
 

Magic_Orthodoxy

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now the rumor mill is switching to a new deck from Madison "the Dealers"
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #77 on: June 19, 2013, 03:41:48 PM »
 

Card Player

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now the rumor mill is switching to a new deck from Madison "the Dealers"

"Madison Dealers" That's outstanding research. Wish I had thought to post that. Looks like you beat me to it. Lol

From what I can tell by teaser #3, it could be a Green Madison Bee Casino deck w/ no border.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNoJ9Stgx0U
« Last Edit: June 19, 2013, 06:07:24 PM by Legacy »
 

Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #78 on: June 19, 2013, 06:50:59 PM »
 

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He was (and is) a huge fan of the Coterie Bee's - so that's not so far fetched IMO.
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #79 on: June 19, 2013, 10:40:19 PM »
 

agera94

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Something that may work well is the design of the UPSC logo bee deck with the stinger backs. Maybe like a bee design with DM logo at each end; that'd probably be the closest thing he would get to a casino themed deck.
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #80 on: June 20, 2013, 03:21:47 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Guys, look closely - it's borderless, but it's not Bee Diamond Back.  Looks like he's making his interpretation of a gambler's borderless design, well-suited to some of the sleights he likes to perform.
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #81 on: June 21, 2013, 09:04:42 AM »
 

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teaser 4 tells ya they are marked.
have you heard the word???
 

Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #82 on: June 22, 2013, 01:02:15 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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teaser 4 tells ya they are marked.

Not directly.  It's possible they're marked, but it's also possible that he had them in stack order.  He was counting the cards and revealing perhaps every fourth card.

One way or another, this definitely appears to be a deck aimed at gamblers and magicians that perform gambling routines.  We've already seen a back with a borderless design that resembles the Bee Diamond Back without actually being one, and I'm told that's a notoriously easy deck to mark because of the back pattern.  Can't say I've ever seen one that was marked, but I could easily imagine a few ways to do it.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2013, 01:03:52 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #83 on: June 22, 2013, 06:39:41 PM »
 

Magic_Orthodoxy

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This is a teaser shot (sorry if it was posted already)

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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #84 on: June 23, 2013, 08:33:54 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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This is a teaser shot (sorry if it was posted already)



A useless teaser.  The face of the box says "Madison Rounders" while the flap has been photoshopped to read something else that's too blurry to make out.  It could say "Madison Python's Flying Circus" for all I know.

I hate useless teasers.
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #85 on: June 23, 2013, 08:44:49 AM »
 

Magic_Orthodoxy

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wow, you think that looks like an "R" ? I need glasses....



And after the seal - that first letter is clearly an "E" after the rest I can see "EALERS"

Besides, Rounders' face looks like this



Most Teasers are useless, that's what makes them teasers (LOL)
« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 08:47:40 AM by Magic_Orthodoxy »
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #86 on: June 23, 2013, 09:11:17 AM »
 

Card Player

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This is a teaser shot (sorry if it was posted already)



A useless teaser.  The face of the box says "Madison Rounders" while the flap has been photoshopped to read something else that's too blurry to make out.  It could say "Madison Python's Flying Circus" for all I know.

I hate useless teasers.

Its does say Madison Dealers on the front of the box. It looks like there not going with the Ace logo they used on rounders. Just script font "Madison Dealers".

With what we are seeing of the tuck box, I find it hard to believe these are going to be GREEN. Do you think Madison is misinforming us purposely on these teasers? "deception artist" #Madness
« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 04:22:54 PM by Legacy »
 

Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #87 on: June 23, 2013, 07:46:19 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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wow, you think that looks like an "R" ? I need glasses....



And after the seal - that first letter is clearly an "E" after the rest I can see "EALERS"

Besides, Rounders' face looks like this



Most Teasers are useless, that's what makes them teasers (LOL)

I suppose next time I should post when I'm less tired and cranky...  You're right, that looks like "Dealers".

Its does say Madison Dealers on the front of the box. It looks like there not going with the Ace logo they used on rounders. Just script font "Madison Dealers".

With what we are seeing of the tuck box, I find it hard to believe these are going to be GREEN. Do you think Madison is misinforming us purposely on these teasers? "deception artist" #Madness


Well, what was in the green box of Vintage Plaids?  Blue.  Can't judge a deck by its tuck box.

So, we're looking at "Madison Dealers", a green deck with a similar design to Bee Diamond Backs.
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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #88 on: June 24, 2013, 03:12:05 PM »
 

Magic_Orthodoxy

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looks like they come out Wednesday



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Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #89 on: June 24, 2013, 03:23:36 PM »
 

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And in Erdnase green.
 

Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #90 on: June 24, 2013, 03:41:18 PM »
 

Card Player

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You do all realize no one updated the title of this thread or attempted to create a new thread for this deck. Obviously not a Red Rounders deck. Lol

Clear my throat... Huhummm?!?
 

Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #91 on: June 24, 2013, 04:02:07 PM »
 

10ofclubs

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I feel like I'm being hypnotized by that back design. Good Lord, I think it might be difficult to see after a couple hands of poker.

But that joker reveal is kind of neat.
 

Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #92 on: June 25, 2013, 01:11:53 PM »
 

Card Player

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I feel like I'm being hypnotized by that back design. Good Lord, I think it might be difficult to see after a couple hands of poker.

But that joker reveal is kind of neat.

That's because your staring at it trying to find the marking system. I'm thinking about the person who is go going to turn away from staring at it for the very reason your mentioning. Getting dizzy or hypnotized. Less chance of them looking for a mark. Not to mention putrid GREEN. It ain't pretty to look at but they do the job.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2013, 01:14:55 PM by Legacy »
 

Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #93 on: June 25, 2013, 01:23:34 PM »
 

Curt


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E just posted this

"|| SCARLET DEALERS || In addition to the Erdnase Green, Daniel Madison had a few (2,500) Scarlet Dealers manufactured for his personal collection and use. 405 will be available tomorrow."

also, I added to the title of the thread to make more sense.
 

Re: Red Rounders??
« Reply #94 on: June 25, 2013, 03:30:49 PM »
 

Card Player

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E just posted this

"|| SCARLET DEALERS || In addition to the Erdnase Green, Daniel Madison had a few (2,500) Scarlet Dealers manufactured for his personal collection and use. 405 will be available tomorrow."

also, I added to the title of the thread to make more sense.

All I need is the TIME / ZONE / & LIMIT of scarlet per order and we are good to go. The Madison Money Train is leaving Ellusionist Station, All aboard!!
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #95 on: June 25, 2013, 04:44:48 PM »
 

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I hope there are some scarlets left after the BC members get their shot at them. 

Still waiting for the release time announcement...
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #96 on: June 25, 2013, 05:55:06 PM »
 

Card Player

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I hope there are some scarlets left after the BC members get their shot at them. 

Still waiting for the release time announcement...

2500 printed...  405 will be available tomorrow (Wednesday). I don't think the Black Club is buying from the 405 available decks. 405 might be all Ellusionist is releasing to Non Black Club members. #Madness

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Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #97 on: June 25, 2013, 05:56:49 PM »
 

mirciusx

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This is it...Dealers. http://www.ellusionist.com/madison-dealers-green.html

Buy 12 green, get one red :)

LE. it's a little strange that they made it public on fb page, even only BC members can order. Usually they keep it secret another's 24h.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2013, 06:05:35 PM by mirciusx »
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Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #98 on: June 25, 2013, 08:43:54 PM »
 

kdklown

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Anybody have an idea what time of day E usually releases their decks?
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #99 on: June 25, 2013, 09:17:43 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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This is it...Dealers. http://www.ellusionist.com/madison-dealers-green.html

Buy 12 green, get one red :)

LE. it's a little strange that they made it public on fb page, even only BC members can order. Usually they keep it secret another's 24h.

Well, it's not exactly like Black Club members keep it a secret, now is it?  :))
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Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #100 on: June 26, 2013, 12:13:21 AM »
 

hecrob

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I dont know if i should order 12 decks just for the scarlet one... I could squeeze some money but... damn ellusionist... i dont want to :(

The cards seem so elegant... and they are marked X_X i haven been really lazy about my magic lately so it would be amazing to own these cards....

DAMN!!!!

« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 12:24:41 AM by hecrob »
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Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #101 on: June 26, 2013, 10:34:26 AM »
 

PrincessTrouble

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Anybody have an idea what time of day E usually releases their decks?

It should be around 1pm PST / 4pm EST, or thereabouts.
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #102 on: June 26, 2013, 01:00:22 PM »
 

MrMollusk

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I dont know if i should order 12 decks just for the scarlet one... I could squeeze some money but... damn ellusionist... i dont want to :(

The cards seem so elegant... and they are marked X_X i haven been really lazy about my magic lately so it would be amazing to own these cards....

DAMN!!!!

One glance at the availability of the red decks, and I know I'm never going to own one.
But still... DAMN. The red faces of the deck are practically designed for a red back! Green just clashes with the face cards.
ELLUSIONIST!  >:(
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #103 on: June 26, 2013, 05:20:42 PM »
 

Card Player

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I dont know if i should order 12 decks just for the scarlet one... I could squeeze some money but... damn ellusionist... i dont want to :(

The cards seem so elegant... and they are marked X_X i haven been really lazy about my magic lately so it would be amazing to own these cards....

DAMN!!!!

One glance at the availability of the red decks, and I know I'm never going to own one.
But still... DAMN. The red faces of the deck are practically designed for a red back! Green just clashes with the face cards.
ELLUSIONIST!  >:(

The Scarlet Dealers actually are not that difficult to get. I guess you've had some bad experiences in the past where you have just about told yourself why bother?

I don't get the GREEN color either. Yes, expert at the card table "the book" is GREEN but is that because of S. W. Erdnase OR the publisher of the book when it first got published? I don't see how Dealers being GREEN is some sort of tribute or association to S. W. Erdnase other then the fact Ellusionist/Madison decided to call it Erdnase green? Step into 1902? Why? Because the deck is Green? Huh?

In the end, its a marked Madison deck. Right now Madison decks are hot in the industry. I can only compare the interest in Madison's playing cards to David Blaine's deck releases. The decks are to Madison's quality specification's and they are a card experts working deck of playing cards. That to me has more value and is more collectible then all these pretty decks designers are producing today.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 05:41:59 PM by Legacy »
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #104 on: June 26, 2013, 08:12:59 PM »
 

The Quadfather

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Are the green dealers a limited run? I was just wandering if Daniel Madison has followed suit from the release of his players.
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Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #105 on: June 26, 2013, 11:05:52 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Legacy: they're not merely "Erdnase green", they're the precise Pantone color of the Erdnase book.

Quadfather: they're like the Arcanes, in a sense - the green deck is like black/white and the red deck is like gold, except twice as rare and very few will actually be released into the hands of consumers.

Hecrob, MrMollusk: stop and think for a moment - how is this any different from something like a pack of white Centurions?  They're rare.  So what?  You CAN actually live a happy, full life without owning so much as a single pack of the red Dealers!

I like them, and I think it's great that these won't be limited editions like the Madison Players were over at T11.  It's a MARKED deck, selling for the price of an unmarked one - AND will be continually restocked!
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Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #106 on: June 26, 2013, 11:36:52 PM »
 

RobotsEatCookies

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The Erdnase Green dealers are the unlimited Madison Dealers.

The Scarlet Dealers can only be obtained by purchasing a brick of Erdnase Dealers (12). Yesterday, the Black Club had early access to the Dealers, and half are gone. Ellusionist's Daniel Madison is offering 405 decks at this point, having produced 2,500.

The rest can be only obtained through upcoming promotions.
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #107 on: June 26, 2013, 11:38:51 PM »
 

RobotsEatCookies

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You can also get more details on the Facebook promotion.
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #108 on: June 27, 2013, 08:04:11 AM »
 

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Legacy: they're not merely "Erdnase green", they're the precise Pantone color of the Erdnase book.

My point is the book is green. Is that because of SW Erdnase? Was that his favorite color or  was that specific color what SW wanted for the book? It seams to me this is more about Madison then associating the deck through Ellusionist/Madison marketing to be some tribute to SW Erdnase just because the deck is pantone color of the book.

Personally I'm fine with green. I just don't see special significance to SW Erdnase just because of a color SW might not have had anything to do with, any more so then the books first publishing company.
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #109 on: June 27, 2013, 11:37:31 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Legacy: they're not merely "Erdnase green", they're the precise Pantone color of the Erdnase book.

My point is the book is green. Is that because of SW Erdnase? Was that his favorite color or  was that specific color what SW wanted for the book? It seams to me this is more about Madison then associating the deck through Ellusionist/Madison marketing to be some tribute to SW Erdnase just because the deck is pantone color of the book.

Personally I'm fine with green. I just don't see special significance to SW Erdnase just because of a color SW might not have had anything to do with, any more so then the books first publishing company.

I do see your point.  But in this case, it's more about perception - practically every version of the classic book for who-know-how-long has been in that shade of green.  Many refer to the pocket-sized version as the "Erdnase bible".  It might not make a connection in the mind Erdnase himself, assuming he was around, but it makes a connection in the minds of those who still read his teachings over 110 years later.  It's like how Guy Fawkes masks (outside of the UK) are now more closely associated with the group "Anonymous", anarchy groups and the movie "V For Vendetta" rather than with Guy Fawkes himself.
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Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #110 on: June 27, 2013, 04:15:50 PM »
 

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It's like how Guy Fawkes masks (outside of the UK) are now more closely associated with the group "Anonymous", anarchy groups and the movie "V For Vendetta" rather than with Guy Fawkes himself.

That's interesting you should use that as your example. Even more interesting you should use it on a Daniel Madison thread.

I'm familiar with both associations of the mask but I knew of Alan Moore's work well before there was an Anonymous. Anonymous the group is not exactly a household name and I would go as far as saying taboo. Funny thing is, most people that protested against the financial markets a summer ago knew nothing of either association. Only that it was a symbol from a movie they had seen. Then again, it's not like SW Erdnase is a household name either unless your familiar with individuals in the card expert and magic industry.

I  know people here associate that color green with Erdnase. I just think Madison is a strong enough brand at this point that he and Ellusionist don't have to make that association.

Speaking of the writer Alan Moore, did you know Alan declared himself to be a magician.  Alan believes that the words ART and MAGIC have the same meaning literally. How would you like to see a Revelations of those two (Madison and Alan Moore) having a conversation, now that would be amazing.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 06:38:21 PM by Legacy »
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #111 on: June 27, 2013, 06:27:28 PM »
 

hecrob

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Ill wait for the unlimited black edition  :karrit:
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Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #112 on: June 27, 2013, 08:03:49 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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I  know people here associate that color green with Erdnase. I just think Madison is a strong enough brand at this point that he and Ellusionist don't have to make that association.

They didn't have to - they CHOSE to.  Dealer's choice!  :))  Just like any other artist making a choice in their art.  It's something that someone at E wanted (probably Daniel; or at the least he agreed to it).

Ill wait for the unlimited black edition  :karrit:

Umm...  But the green is unlimited...   ???
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 08:04:07 PM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #113 on: June 27, 2013, 10:10:12 PM »
 

MrMollusk

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I dont know if i should order 12 decks just for the scarlet one... I could squeeze some money but... damn ellusionist... i dont want to :(

The cards seem so elegant... and they are marked X_X i haven been really lazy about my magic lately so it would be amazing to own these cards....

DAMN!!!!

One glance at the availability of the red decks, and I know I'm never going to own one.
But still... DAMN. The red faces of the deck are practically designed for a red back! Green just clashes with the face cards.
ELLUSIONIST!  >:(

The Scarlet Dealers actually are not that difficult to get. I guess you've had some bad experiences in the past where you have just about told yourself why bother?


...To my knowledge, they're only available as a promotional thing that you can only get by buying 12 unlimited decks (WAY out of my price range)

And if this deck follows the common limited deck trend, the cheapest you'll find them is $90 on Ebay. They've made another White Monarch.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #114 on: June 28, 2013, 05:27:00 AM »
 

Card Player

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I dont know if i should order 12 decks just for the scarlet one... I could squeeze some money but... damn ellusionist... i dont want to :(

The cards seem so elegant... and they are marked X_X i haven been really lazy about my magic lately so it would be amazing to own these cards....

DAMN!!!!

One glance at the availability of the red decks, and I know I'm never going to own one.
But still... DAMN. The red faces of the deck are practically designed for a red back! Green just clashes with the face cards.
ELLUSIONIST!  >:(

The Scarlet Dealers actually are not that difficult to get. I guess you've had some bad experiences in the past where you have just about told yourself why bother?


...To my knowledge, they're only available as a promotional thing that you can only get by buying 12 unlimited decks (WAY out of my price range)

And if this deck follows the common limited deck trend, the cheapest you'll find them is $90 on Ebay. They've made another White Monarch.

The red (scarlet) deck was free with 12 decks I wanted to buy anyway. It (Red) cost me nothing + discounts on my 12 decks. You had at least an hour or 2 to get one if you really wanted it, + those in the BC who got first dibs. Plenty of opportunity. If you really want something, take it. Otherwise your just making excuses. Ellusionist is not to blame.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 03:38:01 PM by Legacy »
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #115 on: June 28, 2013, 09:19:52 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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...To my knowledge, they're only available as a promotional thing that you can only get by buying 12 unlimited decks (WAY out of my price range)

And if this deck follows the common limited deck trend, the cheapest you'll find them is $90 on Ebay. They've made another White Monarch.

The red (scarlet) deck was free with 12 decks I wanted to buy anyway. It (Red) cost me nothing + discounts on my 12 decks. You had at least an hour or 2 to get one if you really wanted it, + those in the BC who got first dibs. Plenty of opportunity. If you really want something, take it. Otherwise your just making excuses. Ellusionist is not to blame.

Using that logic, if I want that cool dashboard clock, I should simply go ahead and buy that Lamborghini Diablo, easy peasy lemon squeezy.  It's a bit flawed, when you think of it, though.

As I see it, you have to stop and consider whether it's really worth it.  The deck is $6.99, with only 5% off at three or more decks - and I'll assume another 5% with a Black Club membership.  One pack of red Dealers will cost $75.48 plus shipping and (where applicable) sales tax.  (Without Black Club, it's nearly $80.)  And all for the exact same deck, just with a different color on the back design...  Yes, you do get a dozen green decks as well - but I don't see a lot of people these days with the cash to buy bricks of whatever they want at the drop of a hat.  The economy still sucks unless you're upper-middle income or outright wealthy - for them, it's a frickin' blast.

This is the rarest item Ellusionist has ever released, and not everyone was meant to have one.  Considering the "cost" of getting a Gold Arcane deck or a Black Ghost 1st Edition in the recent past, it's comparably less costly, but it's still far from cheap.

BTW: as of 2pm PST yesterday, they were down to less than 150 packs of reds.  I can't imagine there's many left now.

One good thing that will arise from this is that there will be people buying bricks of this deck just to get the reds, then flooding eBay with the greens for dirt-cheap prices!  So wait a few days and check eBay out.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 09:22:38 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #116 on: June 28, 2013, 09:50:27 AM »
 

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As I see it, you have to stop and consider whether it's really worth it.  The deck is $6.99, with only 5% off at three or more decks - and I'll assume another 5% with a Black Club membership.  One pack of red Dealers will cost $75.48 plus shipping and (where applicable) sales tax.  (Without Black Club, it's nearly $80.)  And all for the exact same deck, just with a different color on the back design...  Yes, you do get a dozen green decks as well - but I don't see a lot of people these days with the cash to buy bricks of whatever they want at the drop of a hat.  The economy still sucks unless you're upper-middle income or outright wealthy - for them, it's a frickin' blast.

12 deck discount + magic10 or redeemable points.

Quote
One good thing that will arise from this is that there will be people buying bricks of this deck just to get the reds, then flooding eBay with the greens for dirt-cheap prices!  So wait a few days and check eBay out.

I don't think anyone bought bricks just to get red. They bought bricks because they wanted Green either to use or sell. They just so happened to also get a Red. You make it sound as if the Greens have no value or use. I've never seen anyone on eBay with a "buy now" option selling any cheaper then the retailer.

I have bought bricks that offered a limited deck before. I wanted the brick and sold the limited deck to pay for the brick. Free brick, what a concept. That's why Ellusionist sales are great because they protect the customers purchase value of their limited decks. When done correctly like Ellusionist, limited decks work to help promote sales.

« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 03:38:32 PM by Legacy »
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #117 on: June 28, 2013, 10:39:02 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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As I see it, you have to stop and consider whether it's really worth it.  The deck is $6.99, with only 5% off at three or more decks - and I'll assume another 5% with a Black Club membership.  One pack of red Dealers will cost $75.48 plus shipping and (where applicable) sales tax.  (Without Black Club, it's nearly $80.)  And all for the exact same deck, just with a different color on the back design...  Yes, you do get a dozen green decks as well - but I don't see a lot of people these days with the cash to buy bricks of whatever they want at the drop of a hat.  The economy still sucks unless you're upper-middle income or outright wealthy - for them, it's a frickin' blast.

12 deck discount + magic10 or redeemable points.

Quote
One good thing that will arise from this is that there will be people buying bricks of this deck just to get the reds, then flooding eBay with the greens for dirt-cheap prices!  So wait a few days and check eBay out.

I don't think anyone bought bricks just to get red. They bought bricks because they wanted Green either to use or sell. They just so happened to also get a Red. You make it sound as if the Greens have no value or use. I've never seen anyone on eBay with a "buy now" option selling any cheaper then the retailer.

I have bought bricks that offered a limited deck before. I wanted the brick and sold the limited deck to pay for the brick. Free brick, what a concept. That's why Ellusionist sales are great because they protect the customers purchase value of their limited decks. When done correctly like Ellusionist, limited decks work to help promote sales.


Re the discounts: magic10 is a one-shot, and I pushed the slider to 24 and never saw the discount rise above 5%, which triggered at three decks.

Granted, some buy the brick because they want the brick and sell the rare deck.  But some buy the brick because they want the deck and perhaps a few from the brick.  I've heard of both, and regardless of how you slice it, it does indeed boost Ellusionist's sales.  But to buy the brick, you have to have the cash in the first place, regardless of what you intend to do with it afterwards.
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Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #118 on: June 28, 2013, 01:35:58 PM »
 

Card Player

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As I see it, you have to stop and consider whether it's really worth it.  The deck is $6.99, with only 5% off at three or more decks - and I'll assume another 5% with a Black Club membership.  One pack of red Dealers will cost $75.48 plus shipping and (where applicable) sales tax.  (Without Black Club, it's nearly $80.)  And all for the exact same deck, just with a different color on the back design...  Yes, you do get a dozen green decks as well - but I don't see a lot of people these days with the cash to buy bricks of whatever they want at the drop of a hat.  The economy still sucks unless you're upper-middle income or outright wealthy - for them, it's a frickin' blast.

12 deck discount + magic10 or redeemable points.

Quote
One good thing that will arise from this is that there will be people buying bricks of this deck just to get the reds, then flooding eBay with the greens for dirt-cheap prices!  So wait a few days and check eBay out.

I don't think anyone bought bricks just to get red. They bought bricks because they wanted Green either to use or sell. They just so happened to also get a Red. You make it sound as if the Greens have no value or use. I've never seen anyone on eBay with a "buy now" option selling any cheaper then the retailer.

I have bought bricks that offered a limited deck before. I wanted the brick and sold the limited deck to pay for the brick. Free brick, what a concept. That's why Ellusionist sales are great because they protect the customers purchase value of their limited decks. When done correctly like Ellusionist, limited decks work to help promote sales.


Re the discounts: magic10 is a one-shot, and I pushed the slider to 24 and never saw the discount rise above 5%, which triggered at three decks.

Granted, some buy the brick because they want the brick and sell the rare deck.  But some buy the brick because they want the deck and perhaps a few from the brick.  I've heard of both, and regardless of how you slice it, it does indeed boost Ellusionist's sales.  But to buy the brick, you have to have the cash in the first place, regardless of what you intend to do with it afterwards.

MAGIC10 is only a one shot if you signin your account during purchase. If you purchase as a guest you can use MAGIC10 every time. You won't get or be able to use redemption points though.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 03:24:59 PM by Legacy »
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #119 on: June 28, 2013, 02:57:55 PM »
 

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I don't have Players and the get one deck I must pay close to 20$ + shipping. To avoid that I bought 4 bricks of Dealers (3 for me). Why? To get the 3 reds. One brick or more of greens will be enough for me (2 for collection). I will sell one red (maybe :D ) and unopen the last two. This two decks are for my collection. Also I will sell a few greens with an extra price (I live in Europe so will be a "europen price" for this decks :( ) to save some shipping costs. Also, Don enlighten me that I can't have them all...and it was the best answer/tip/advice for me. So, if you like a deck, take it. If not, no. Simple. And don't look back.

Otherwise I love green. My website is with a light green and some butter yellowish color. Green also have so many meanings...Perhaps Erdnase what that color for a reason or it was just a simple circumstance. Sorry sir Erdnase, if you want a blue color you must wait another ... few months, years. I don't know :)

Also, I need some help, please. I have collected 2xx decks and few uncut sheets for the last 7 months. What is the cheapest shipping method from USPS (or another company) the send them from US, NY to Europe? I guess the package is close to 26Kg (almost 60 pounds). Should I send this decks in one package or divide them in two or more little packages? The company that I use to ship packages from US has gone :( Thank you!

Don, true, true :D I am not a proud person (lol) to be a BC, but I am glad to help if I can :) And sometimes is good to be a BC member, even I said before and I keep my opinion that we don't have so much to use there. I still believe that we are driven by marketing strategies and I understand that, but sometimes you must give to get...

What kind of discount is "magic10"? If is there on E, I didn't know about it.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 02:58:47 PM by mirciusx »
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Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #120 on: June 28, 2013, 05:32:12 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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MAGIC10 is only a one shot if you signin your account during purchase. If you purchase as a guest you can use MAGIC10 every time. You won't get or be able to use redemption points though.

Additionally, Black Club members can't apply their discount, either.


Also, I need some help, please. I have collected 2xx decks and few uncut sheets for the last 7 months. What is the cheapest shipping method from USPS (or another company) the send them from US, NY to Europe? I guess the package is close to 26Kg (almost 60 pounds). Should I send this decks in one package or divide them in two or more little packages? The company that I use to ship packages from US has gone :( Thank you!

---

What kind of discount is "magic10"? If is there on E, I didn't know about it.

The cheapest method for shipping anything via US Mail (USPS) is First Class without any extra features such as package tracking or insurance.  I have never seen any company undercut the price of First Class mail.  I can take, depending on destination, from two to eight weeks to arrive to international destinations.

Next cheapest is Priority Mail.  Much faster, costs notably more, but they do offer a flat rate shipping deal - using special USPS Priority Mail Flat Rate packaging, you can ship up to seventy pounds for a flat rate.  The rate varies based on package: envelopes are cheaper than boxes and small boxes are cheaper than larger ones.  It can take three to seven days to most of the world.

Most expensive is Express Mail.  They also have special boxes, but I don't think they offer a flat rate.  You get international tracking and FAST delivery, even some insurance coverage without having to pay for it.  It's NOT cheap in the least, but it's fast - one day to most US destinations, one to three days to the rest of the world.  They even offer a SAME DAY delivery rate, but it's Donald-Trump expensive...

MAGIC10 is one of the several discount codes used on the Ellusionist website.  If you check out the top of the Playing Card Plethora, you'll see a topic about these discounts that I try keeping updated as new codes arrive and old ones are canceled.  A small number of codes (usually for smaller retailers) can be used more than once.
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Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #121 on: June 28, 2013, 05:45:00 PM »
 

Card Player

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Additionally, Black Club members can't apply their discount, either.

I see. So... What are you saying? Guests are getting a better discount then Black Club members? I guess I just blew a good thing by posting it on the forum. Say goodbye to MAGIC10.
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #122 on: June 28, 2013, 06:20:22 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Additionally, Black Club members can't apply their discount, either.

I see. So... What are you saying? Guests are getting a better discount then Black Club members? I guess I just blew a good thing by posting it on the forum. Say goodbye to MAGIC10.

No, that's not what I'm saying.  If the discount was available to a BC member, they'd get both MAGIC10 AND BC discounts combined.  Black Club is the only discount they offer which stacks.
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Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #123 on: June 29, 2013, 01:03:20 AM »
 

MrMollusk

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I will sell one red (maybe :D )

If you do decide to, please pm me!  :)

Keep in mind I'm broke, though, so I might not meet your price standards . (I can try)

Thanks!
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #124 on: June 30, 2013, 02:40:38 PM »
 

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I put up a review of this deck. I am still unclear of who printed this deck? was is USPCC or another company?

http://tuckcase.com/2013/06/30/deck-review-madison-dealers-erdnase-green/
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #125 on: June 30, 2013, 04:20:23 PM »
 

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Does it feel like other decks from USPCC? I would assume that it was printed by them... otherwise someone would have been making some noise about it.
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #126 on: June 30, 2013, 09:28:53 PM »
 

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I put up a review of this deck. I am still unclear of who printed this deck? was is USPCC or another company?

http://tuckcase.com/2013/06/30/deck-review-madison-dealers-erdnase-green/

I'm thinking it's USPC.  Based on your description, the cards are exceptionally slick - a sure sign of Magic Finish.  I'd go further and say that the stock is Bee Casino, since your description of the paper's firmness matches that of Bee Casino decks.  One way to tell for certain, if you haven't already noticed, is by smell - Magic Finish has a distinct smell; it lasts for a good while after the box has been opened.  Compare it to off-the-shelf Rider Backs or Tally-Ho decks.
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Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #127 on: June 30, 2013, 09:58:01 PM »
 

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I'm thinking it's USPC.  Based on your description, the cards are exceptionally slick - a sure sign of Magic Finish.  I'd go further and say that the stock is Bee Casino, since your description of the paper's firmness matches that of Bee Casino decks.  One way to tell for certain, if you haven't already noticed, is by smell - Magic Finish has a distinct smell; it lasts for a good while after the box has been opened.  Compare it to off-the-shelf Rider Backs or Tally-Ho decks.

How the heck do you know so much?! Been reading your other comments too and your knowledge base/bullshitting skill is very impressive!

What do you guys think of the marking system?
Alex, stop fucking with my name you phegget. xx
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #128 on: July 01, 2013, 12:18:44 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I'm thinking it's USPC.  Based on your description, the cards are exceptionally slick - a sure sign of Magic Finish.  I'd go further and say that the stock is Bee Casino, since your description of the paper's firmness matches that of Bee Casino decks.  One way to tell for certain, if you haven't already noticed, is by smell - Magic Finish has a distinct smell; it lasts for a good while after the box has been opened.  Compare it to off-the-shelf Rider Backs or Tally-Ho decks.

How the heck do you know so much?! Been reading your other comments too and your knowledge base/bullshitting skill is very impressive!

What do you guys think of the marking system?

Both learning and experience.  I'm friends with a few people in the business and I'm a good listener!

Couldn't tell you about the marking system yet, unless it's the same one he used for his Madison Players over at T11.  If that's the case, it's OK, but it's annoying to have to learn a new system.  My preferred marked decks are the Ultimate Marked Deck and the GT Speedreaders.  I do also have a fondness for the Gambler's Decks.

UMDs were the bomb, but they're out of print now.  Printed on an altered Bicycle Rider Back in red and blue, the marks required no system to learn - they could be read as easily from the back as from the front, and even at some distance - across the table, if the table wasn't too big.  These days, it's hard to find them for less than maybe $40 a pack - they're not only out of print, but they're also never to be remade.  In order to legally defend the Rider Back design as a trademark (since the copyright expired a long time ago), USPC Legal no longer permits any alterations aside from color changes of the Rider Back, Bicycle jokers and Bicycle Ace of Spades.

The GTs are nearly as good.  They were built on the Mandolin Back design - one of two designs USPC uses specifically for magicians to create gaffs with, they're close enough to the Rider Back that a spectator will likely not notice the difference while different enough to not dilute the Rider Back trademark.  The GT decks, however, are almost useless for gamblers.  The markings are in the top-right and bottom-left of the back, and they're inverted from what you'd expect - they're meant to be read easily in a spread where a spectator can see the back of the index corner, the traditional place for deck markings.  They look at the corner closest to you, but find nothing, because there's no marks to find; you look at the corner nearest to them, you see the marks, oriented so you can read them easily.

The Gambler's Deck, however, is a unique piece of work.  Originally, you could get them in Rider Back; after USPC Legal stepped in, they were made in a generic back that no one liked.  Today, they're made in Maiden Back (the other alterable design that looks similar to Rider Backs, and if you ask me, the more attractive of the two).  For all its different designs, the deck had three features: a) it was marked, and in over a half-dozen different ways; b) it was cut to be a stripper deck as well; and c) it was designed (and numbered) to be used in a specific stack order.  Among other things, when correctly stacked, you could cut the deck to any point, look at the top card and know what the BOTTOM card was without even memorizing the stack order, thanks to the multiple markings.  It is a fun deck to play around with - I use it in conjunction with an Invisible deck for some great effects - but I don't think it would hold up as well under close scrutiny; the marks are hidden, but there's so many of them.  It would never pass a riffle test.  (Hold a pack of cards face down, riffle the cards like a flip book and look for any "flickering" - that's the giveaway for most marked decks that don't use special inks or daubs.  That's the riffle test.)

Which brings me back to the Madison decks.  While it is a nuisance to learn a marking system, the Madison Players were the first marked deck I've seen that are so subtly marked, they could pass a casual riffle test.  They wouldn't hold up under closer scrutiny, but the marks are small enough that you can actually miss them with a simple flip-through.  So if this deck uses those markings, AND it has this Bee Diamond Back-like small, repeating pattern to it, I'm thinking this would pass a riffle test even more easily.  Those backs are practically like looking at an optical illusion in the first place.
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Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #129 on: July 01, 2013, 12:43:52 AM »
 

Fred

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Much appreciated Don. You're like a wikipedia for playing cards; such a majestic specimen :)

As for the Dealers marking system, it's different. ( http://ellusionist.com/dealers-are-marked ) Go check it out if you have time and tell me what you think. I don't have the deck myself but it doesnt seem too hard to learn and looks pretty damn well hidden. Don't know about it passing the riffle test though..
« Last Edit: July 01, 2013, 12:44:39 AM by Froggo »
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Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #130 on: July 01, 2013, 01:20:46 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Much appreciated Don. You're like a wikipedia for playing cards; such a majestic specimen :)

As for the Dealers marking system, it's different. ( http://ellusionist.com/dealers-are-marked ) Go check it out if you have time and tell me what you think. I don't have the deck myself but it doesnt seem too hard to learn and looks pretty damn well hidden. Don't know about it passing the riffle test though..

The marking system is actually closely modeled off the one for the Players.  It even suffers the same (unnecessary, in this case) flaw where the joker and the King of Diamonds are identically "marked".  I'd think that unless the entire back was littered with these marks, they would be hard to find when riffling, though positioning them closer to the corners does give them the drawback that they might be spotted because that's the place people generally look for deck markings due to that corner being the one that's visible on all the cards when they're held in an "index fan" in your hands, allowing you to read all the cards without moving them.
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Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #131 on: July 01, 2013, 02:08:00 AM »
 

Fred

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Yea that's true. The buyer beware disclaimer on the Rounders really should be on here instead! Haha (although it wouldnt fit the whole Erdnase theme).

Props to the marketing team at Ellusionist.. the Scarlet deck for every 12 decks campaign is a damn good one. Massive hype, great release and excellent reward system= profit $$$$$$$. I can't imagine how many people got sucked in to buying 12 decks whereas they wouldve only bought 1-3 normally. Total deck sales are probably already closing in on the 10,000 mark.

I have a slight hunch that Ellusionist may have had pulled more scarlet decks out of their asses than the 405 scarlet decks advertised.. They said on Facebook that they only had about 50 left like 4 days ago.. whilst advertising on the website that there were still 150 left as of 5 days ago, and refused to post updates and answer questions on how many were left after those announcements.. Only just announcing 7hours ago that all of them are now sold out. Hmmmm dunno about you guys but it doesn't seem right to me! There also could be the possibility that those "only 50/150 left!" remarks were false in attempt to drive sales. But yeah, oh well we can only speculate. Great release by Ellusionist!

 
Alex, stop fucking with my name you phegget. xx
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #132 on: July 01, 2013, 03:19:58 AM »
 

Joe Hadsall

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For everyone who bought any amount of Dealers, thank you! We don't sleep so that we can design decks that get our customers excited and motivated to perform. Whether a card worker sees an extension of their wardrobe, finds stellar functionality or is inspired to create new presentations, we love seeing what is done with our cards.

I'll apologize for not reading all the posts thoroughly, but I'll answer some questions (at least in the neighborhood of what I've read, although I might not be very specific):

PRINTED AT US PLAYING CARD CO.? Yes.

WHAT'S UP WITH THAT MARKING SYSTEM? I've read several reviews about the marking system. Personally, I think it's brilliant for something Don touched on: It holds up relatively well to a riffle test. The reason for that is because the dots are small, but more importantly, there are only six spots in the marking area that get adjusted.

To explain what I mean: Think of a marked deck you'd get in the toy department of a big-box retailer. Most of the time, those systems are organized like clocks, with separate indicator wheels for suit and value. That means there are 12 spots for the suit and four spots for the suit. Total of 16. Madison's Players deck has 10 spots.

The Madison Dealers have six. That's the same number as two of Madison's systems of marking a Rider back. That low number is a big deal, because the fewer ink spots there are to change, the tougher it will be to catch in a riffle inspection. Combine that and the very small dots with the lines of the back design -- and the natural optical illusions that result -- and you have a very solid marked deck. Is it perfect? Probably not. Is it better than other marking systems? Depends on your preference. But it's one of the best and most clever systems that I've seen.

WHY ERDNASE GREEN? Quite frankly, we are big fans of that unknown genius. After talking with Daniel during a January planning meeting, and reading about his story from Jamie D. Grant and others, Madison and Erdnase followed similar paths to discovery of artifice and subterfuge. Erdnase is a role model to many card workers, and we hope that us matching the backs of Dealers to the color of the first edition's cover pays tribute. And if someone doesn't know who Erdnase is, maybe that will get them hunting down details.

WHAT'S UP WITH SCARLET DECKS? Just to clarify, a run of about 2,500 exists (I may be wrong about the number; if so, I'll try to remember to come back here and edit the post). We offered a promotion where anyone who bought 12 Green Dealers would receive a free Scarlet deck, but only 405 would be available. That means that if someone bought 36 decks, they'd get three Scarlet decks, provided they were still available. However, Black Club members got to participate in the promo a day early, only their Scarlets were not taken out of that 405 limit.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2013, 01:47:43 PM by Joe Hadsall »
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Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #133 on: July 01, 2013, 04:06:30 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Yea that's true. The buyer beware disclaimer on the Rounders really should be on here instead! Haha (although it wouldnt fit the whole Erdnase theme).

Props to the marketing team at Ellusionist.. the Scarlet deck for every 12 decks campaign is a damn good one. Massive hype, great release and excellent reward system= profit $$$$$$$. I can't imagine how many people got sucked in to buying 12 decks whereas they wouldve only bought 1-3 normally. Total deck sales are probably already closing in on the 10,000 mark.

I have a slight hunch that Ellusionist may have had pulled more scarlet decks out of their asses than the 405 scarlet decks advertised.. They said on Facebook that they only had about 50 left like 4 days ago.. whilst advertising on the website that there were still 150 left as of 5 days ago, and refused to post updates and answer questions on how many were left after those announcements.. Only just announcing 7hours ago that all of them are now sold out. Hmmmm dunno about you guys but it doesn't seem right to me! There also could be the possibility that those "only 50/150 left!" remarks were false in attempt to drive sales. But yeah, oh well we can only speculate. Great release by Ellusionist!

2,500 reds were printed - but they were all intended to be Daniel Madison's personal supply.  He "volunteered" the 405 that Ellusionist gave away.  Daniel might give more away on his own, but Ellusionist won't really have any of their own for anything unless Daniel gives them more.

Is it good hype?  Yes.  Was it a good idea?  Eh.  From the collector side of things, not a lot of people these days are going around buying anything by the brick.  But I've also come to realize that I'm not going to own every single super-rare deck that ever comes out - my pockets were never that deep and aren't likely to get that deep anytime soon.  Even if they were, there's a lot of other things I can think of to spend that cash on!  This is my hobby, not my sole reason for living and my very essence!  :))
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Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #134 on: July 01, 2013, 04:29:47 AM »
 

Fred

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2,500 reds were printed - but they were all intended to be Daniel Madison's personal supply.  He "volunteered" the 405 that Ellusionist gave away.  Daniel might give more away on his own, but Ellusionist won't really have any of their own for anything unless Daniel gives them more.

Is it good hype?  Yes.  Was it a good idea?  Eh.  From the collector side of things, not a lot of people these days are going around buying anything by the brick.  But I've also come to realize that I'm not going to own every single super-rare deck that ever comes out - my pockets were never that deep and aren't likely to get that deep anytime soon.  Even if they were, there's a lot of other things I can think of to spend that cash on!  This is my hobby, not my sole reason for living and my very essence!  :))

That's what i meant. I know that 2,500 were printed and 405 made available to the public, i just personally think that maybe more were available than originally advertised (say 600 for example). Again, just an assumption and i have nothing to back up my claims =p

In terms of dragging in collectors, i think it was a pretty smart move. Of course collectors generally won't want to buy 12 decks of the same design.. so if they had a campaign based around say, "buy 12 decks and get 20% off your order!", that would be inefficient as there would be no incentive for collectors to jump in on the deal. However in this case, the incentive to buy a brick is that you'll get a rare, limited scarlet deck, and thus there is greater desire for collectors to purchase a brick to add the rare deck to their collection. What i'm trying to say is that i think they chose the right option between "buy 12 decks and get 20% off, and "buy 12 decks and get a rare deck", as the cost of both options would be similar, but there would be a greater overall demand for the 2nd option and thus greater levels of profit.

Also, don't fight it Don. You know deep inside that you were born to collect cards, perform tricks, and be the go to guy for related information =)) Realise your destiny, sell your house and wife, n bye ol de cerds in ze wurld!!1
Alex, stop fucking with my name you phegget. xx
 

Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #135 on: July 01, 2013, 06:32:30 AM »
 

Paul.Middleton

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Quote
The cheapest method for shipping anything via US Mail (USPS) is First Class without any extra features such as package tracking or insurance.  I have never seen any company undercut the price of First Class mail.  I can take, depending on destination, from two to eight weeks to arrive to international destinations.

Next cheapest is Priority Mail.  Much faster, costs notably more, but they do offer a flat rate shipping deal - using special USPS Priority Mail Flat Rate packaging, you can ship up to seventy pounds for a flat rate.  The rate varies based on package: envelopes are cheaper than boxes and small boxes are cheaper than larger ones.  It can take three to seven days to most of the world.

Most expensive is Express Mail.  They also have special boxes, but I don't think they offer a flat rate.  You get international tracking and FAST delivery, even some insurance coverage without having to pay for it.  It's NOT cheap in the least, but it's fast - one day to most US destinations, one to three days to the rest of the world.  They even offer a SAME DAY delivery rate, but it's Donald-Trump expensive...

MAGIC10 is one of the several discount codes used on the Ellusionist website.  If you check out the top of the Playing Card Plethora, you'll see a topic about these discounts that I try keeping updated as new codes arrive and old ones are canceled.  A small number of codes (usually for smaller retailers) can be used more than once.

I've tried Express Mail a few times and to be honest (through no fault of USPS) it doesn't make too much difference in reality. As they can't control the speed it goes through customs. I've had a priority arrive here in 5 working days, and then an express arrive here in 7 working days. HMRC (customs) in the UK seem to be very inconsistent in their approach. So if you do use USPS it's not always worth upgrading in my experience. That being said, maybe it is in a different country. I personally wouldn't consider first class mail at all for the lack of insurance, which is probably why most don't offer it.
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Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #136 on: July 01, 2013, 01:52:51 PM »
 

Joe Hadsall

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As far as international shipping goes, have you tried our i-Parcel option? The company usually makes customs much easier through pre-arranged agreements (more info is here). Any luck with that?
Joe Hadsall
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Re: Red Rounders? ( a.k.a Madison Dealers )
« Reply #137 on: July 02, 2013, 12:35:56 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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That's what i meant. I know that 2,500 were printed and 405 made available to the public, i just personally think that maybe more were available than originally advertised (say 600 for example). Again, just an assumption and i have nothing to back up my claims =p

Since I have no reason not to believe them and it's quite common for magicians to hold back certain decks for themselves, I believe them when they say they only got 405 decks and Madison got the rest.  Originally, the black and inverse black Split Spades (pre-Lions; the Bee decks) and the red White Lions Series A decks were part of David Blaine's reserve, not intended for sale.

In terms of dragging in collectors, i think it was a pretty smart move. Of course collectors generally won't want to buy 12 decks of the same design.. so if they had a campaign based around say, "buy 12 decks and get 20% off your order!", that would be inefficient as there would be no incentive for collectors to jump in on the deal. However in this case, the incentive to buy a brick is that you'll get a rare, limited scarlet deck, and thus there is greater desire for collectors to purchase a brick to add the rare deck to their collection. What i'm trying to say is that i think they chose the right option between "buy 12 decks and get 20% off, and "buy 12 decks and get a rare deck", as the cost of both options would be similar, but there would be a greater overall demand for the 2nd option and thus greater levels of profit.

I would daresay that this was cheaper, since 20% off a brick is a little more than two free decks.

Also, don't fight it Don. You know deep inside that you were born to collect cards, perform tricks, and be the go to guy for related information =)) Realise your destiny, sell your house and wife, n bye ol de cerds in ze wurld!!1

When you can find a pack of cards that will make me breakfast, wash my laundry, clean the bathroom, wash the dishes AND snuggle in bed with me, then I might consider all of the above...  :))  And it has to earn half of the household income, too!
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Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #138 on: July 02, 2013, 03:48:38 AM »
 

therealmackay

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Beautiful deck of cards, love the design work and love the fact that there are M's in the logo (same surname Initial).

Can't wait to give these bad boys a go. Got a cheeky Scarlet deck aswell, this will remain sealed!

Has anyone mastered the marking system yet? Any tips on doing so?

 
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #139 on: July 02, 2013, 03:53:58 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Beautiful deck of cards, love the design work and love the fact that there are M's in the logo (same surname Initial).

Can't wait to give these bad boys a go. Got a cheeky Scarlet deck aswell, this will remain sealed!

Has anyone mastered the marking system yet? Any tips on doing so?

You do it the same way you get to Carnegie Hall.  Practice, practice, practice!  :))

Do a little memorizing, then try reading the card backs and see how accurate you are.  Do it over and over until it becomes second nature to you.  Then put it down for a few days, pick it up and see how well you remembered the marking system.  If you still know it cold, great.  If not, you do it again the same way you get to Carnegie Hall.
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Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #140 on: July 02, 2013, 04:02:50 AM »
 

therealmackay

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Beautiful deck of cards, love the design work and love the fact that there are M's in the logo (same surname Initial).

Can't wait to give these bad boys a go. Got a cheeky Scarlet deck aswell, this will remain sealed!

Has anyone mastered the marking system yet? Any tips on doing so?

You do it the same way you get to Carnegie Hall.  Practice, practice, practice!  :))

Do a little memorizing, then try reading the card backs and see how accurate you are.  Do it over and over until it becomes second nature to you.  Then put it down for a few days, pick it up and see how well you remembered the marking system.  If you still know it cold, great.  If not, you do it again the same way you get to Carnegie Hall.

Thank you Don, will ensure I practice practice practice.

Had a few problems lately hence my absence from the forum and card magic in general - nice to hear from a friendly face on my re-entry to the Aether space - cheers :)
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #141 on: July 02, 2013, 07:14:47 AM »
 

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Can't wait to give these bad boys a go. Got a cheeky Scarlet deck aswell, this will remain sealed!

Nudge, nudge - where did you get the dealers? ;)
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Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #142 on: July 02, 2013, 08:22:35 AM »
 

therealmackay

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Can't wait to give these bad boys a go. Got a cheeky Scarlet deck aswell, this will remain sealed!

Nudge, nudge - where did you get the dealers? ;)

Haha! I picked up the dealers from the awesome JP Playing Cards - have you heard of them Paul ;) Will be posting later on the social networks about you guys!

Amazing service, as always! Thank you so much!
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #143 on: July 03, 2013, 11:27:03 AM »
 

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Took these out around some friends. Did a few tricks where I would "guess" the card. Freaked some people out as they couldn't figure out how I was doing it. I haven't even mastered the system yet but it's good enough to fool some folks.

I just have to say though people are always trying to figure out what you did. Whether it is asking you to perform the trick multiple times so they can watch it closer or if they simple ask to inspect the deck. I handed the deck over to a suspicious friend of mine and he quickly started inspecting it. He found the marking system but wasn't sure if that was a code for the cards or just part of the design. I'm surprised he found the dots that quick. At this point I will officially say the best tricks are done with old fashioned sleight of hand, no trick or marked decks. Period.
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #144 on: July 03, 2013, 05:50:00 PM »
 

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Took these out around some friends. Did a few tricks where I would "guess" the card. Freaked some people out as they couldn't figure out how I was doing it. I haven't even mastered the system yet but it's good enough to fool some folks.

I just have to say though people are always trying to figure out what you did. Whether it is asking you to perform the trick multiple times so they can watch it closer or if they simple ask to inspect the deck. I handed the deck over to a suspicious friend of mine and he quickly started inspecting it. He found the marking system but wasn't sure if that was a code for the cards or just part of the design. I'm surprised he found the dots that quick. At this point I will officially say the best tricks are done with old fashioned sleight of hand, no trick or marked decks. Period.

Although I agree with you partially about the sleight of hand. Being a novice magician always makes people more curious and wanting to find out how you did it. Because they know there is no other way Mr. Carey could have done it without a gag deck or telepathy. Most likely it's not telepathy, so it must be a gag deck of cards. I would not dare question someone who I knew was a real magician/deception artist and used a better trick/hustle thats not so direct like guessing the card. The best card work with this deck will be done when your victim is not aware that knowing the card by simply looking at the back is part of the trick or hustle. There is no misdirection in what your doing.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2013, 06:25:21 PM by Legacy »
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #145 on: July 03, 2013, 06:33:59 PM »
 

S. Carey

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I wouldn't even call myself a novice or beginner magician. I learned that a non magician simply can't buy a marked deck and automatically be a magician. It's more than what I tried to do. I agree it is misdirection. Most people know me as the guy who always has a cool deck of cards. I don't think any of my friends know me as a magician.
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #146 on: July 04, 2013, 12:09:37 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I, too, agree about the part of pure sleight of hand being so much better - but not always from the audience perspective.  I still get people who are mystified by the Rising Card trick.  I also get people who'd prefer the mystery of the trick over the knowledge of how it was achieved.  (I also get the opposite, but that's another story!)

His trick about guessing the cards could EASILY have been accomplished with the Madison Rounders, an UNMARKED deck.  The back color was specifically chosen so that, in conjunction with the finish, it would provide a reflective surface at close range.  This means that if he held the deck face down in one hand, the card just above the deck in the other, positioned just right, he'd be able to see the reflection of the index of the card on the back of the deck.  It's called a "shiner" and is a common gimmick used by magicians and gamblers.  (Never play cards with a man wearing a pinky ring that has a flat, shiny surface, especially when he's turned it inward while dealing!)  Often, magicians will hold the card higher and read from the mirror image of the bottom index, allowing the audience to see the top index.  After that, you could hand out the cards to be freely examined - there are no marks to be discovered.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 12:09:53 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #147 on: July 04, 2013, 08:27:05 AM »
 

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(Never play cards with a man wearing a pinky ring that has a flat, shiny surface, especially when he's turned it inward while dealing!)

Ha Ha... I stick to professional casino poker tables these days (Foxwoods). I have enough things to be aware of at the poker table. I don't need all my attention focused on whose dealing. I used to play home games but I wanted stronger competition, a clean felt table and the feel of real clay chips (Paulson) in my hands.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 08:31:05 AM by Legacy »
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #148 on: July 06, 2013, 12:44:07 PM »
 

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I received my Madison Dealers yesterday. Had a chance to open a deck today. I could not be more thoroughly impressed. In fact both decks, Rounders and Dealers are works of playing card engineering art. Madison and Ellusionist have elevated whats to be expected for tools of their craft. The marking system is so subtle, yet clear enough to see and understand for the user. It almost reminds me of older printing method's that cant handle the defined detail of the image, so it spats or fills ink in small areas where its not supposed to be. If that makes sense to anyone?

Dealers pushes Madison Players into irrelevancy. I was not sure if Madison would want to create another marked deck after theory11. Players was that "did it already" concept with another company. They ended up building a better Madison brand marked deck with Ellusionist. These are exactly the types of decks I'm talking about when I post threads asking what decks are here to stay or gone tomorrow? People are going to buy these over and over again.   
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 08:12:48 PM by Legacy »
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #149 on: July 07, 2013, 12:59:33 AM »
 

Michael

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In fact both decks, Rounders and Dealers are works of playing card engineering art. Madison and Ellusionist have elevated whats to be expected for tools of their craft.

I agree that both these decks are very well designed with the Rounders being nice in its simplicity and the Dealers being a very solidly designed borderless deck. I think Madison has gotten nice momentum with his decks and it makes me looking forward to any future decks he may have in mind.

It almost reminds me of older printing method's that cant handle the defined detail of the image, so it spats or fills ink in small areas where its not supposed to be. If that makes sense to anyone?   

Makes perfect sense to me. I'm reminded of CARC's recent Bee Erdnase 216 deck in which the art was not as clear as we see on current decks because they were supposed to be direct scans of a very old deck of cards. I liked the way those decks turned out partially due to the finish but also due to the art that made it look old.

I haven't purchased any Dealers yet because they're unlimited so I'm not missing out on anything. I know I'll pick them up when my budget allows though.
"The magician takes the ordinary something and makes it do something extraordinary. Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it, because of course you're not really looking. You don't really want to know. You want to be fooled."
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #150 on: July 08, 2013, 06:01:50 AM »
 

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Makes perfect sense to me. I'm reminded of CARC's recent Bee Erdnase 216 deck in which the art was not as clear as we see on current decks because they were supposed to be direct scans of a very old deck of cards. I liked the way those decks turned out partially due to the finish but also due to the art that made it look old.

Funny how one deck (Dealers) can make you interested in another. I was actually looking at the Erdnase 216 Bee Deck just the other day with intention to buy. I could not get past the one way back. I did not want to buy it strictly on historical incentive. I know CARC is trying to be as accurate to the original as possible but I find it hard to believe in today's age of custom decks, there was no wanting to update this seamless back design to a TWO way? What would Erdnase have done if it were even conceivable then.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 07:48:24 AM by Legacy »
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #151 on: July 08, 2013, 07:49:28 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Makes perfect sense to me. I'm reminded of CARC's recent Bee Erdnase 216 deck in which the art was not as clear as we see on current decks because they were supposed to be direct scans of a very old deck of cards. I liked the way those decks turned out partially due to the finish but also due to the art that made it look old.

Funny how one deck (Dealers) can make you interested in another. I was actually looking at the Erdnase 216 Bee Deck just the other day with intention to buy. I could not get past the one way back. I did not want to buy it strictly on historical incentive. I know CARC is trying to be as accurate to the original as possible but I find it hard to believe in today's age of custom decks, there was no wanting to update this seamless back design to a TWO way? What would Erdnase have done if he lived in this age of custom decks?

The 216s looked the way they looked because the original deck they were made from looked exactly as printed.  Printing methods were not as technologically advanced in terms of what playing card companies were using.  The companies making cards circa 1902 had only recently begun adopting mechanically-driven presses with any serious degree of automation - they'd be considered pretty crude by today's standards.  I've actually seen and held the deck that was used as the model for this deck.

Don't just consider the deck for the design - check this topic for more information about what went into making the 216s.  No one can know for certain if this was the deck used as the model for M.D. Smith's illustrations in the original book, but it's the closest design anyone's seen to what was available at the time the book was written.

What would Erdnase have done?  He'd have likely used any tools at his disposal that he could get away with using either in front of an audience or at a card table!  One-way decks of this subtle a nature were among the weapons of a magician's or a gambler's arsenal - and to some extent still are today.  I'm certain that marked and "shaved" (stripper) decks would have been found in his traveling kit, as well!
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 07:50:00 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #152 on: July 09, 2013, 01:51:35 AM »
 

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The 216s looked the way they looked because the original deck they were made from looked exactly as printed.  Printing methods were not as technologically advanced in terms of what playing card companies were using.  The companies making cards circa 1902 had only recently begun adopting mechanically-driven presses with any serious degree of automation - they'd be considered pretty crude by today's standards.  I've actually seen and held the deck that was used as the model for this deck.

I realize this. That is basically what I'm saying. CARC is being as accurate to the original design as possible. Strangely, wasn't the original deck a blue back? It just seems feasible considering old printing methods in 1902 and CARC's own adaption of the deck (color change), a updated two way back design could have been considered.

We are not even sure if this is the deck Erdnase used. CARC is basing it off of time period and a interpretation of a 1902 illustration. The illustration theory is far fetched. This might have been a deck Erdnase "would" have used around the time of expert at the card table but its only a small period of time in an entire mans life.

Quote
Don't just consider the deck for the design - check this topic for more information about what went into making the 216s.  No one can know for certain if this was the deck used as the model for M.D. Smith's illustrations in the original book, but it's the closest design anyone's seen to what was available at the time the book was written.

I'm NOT considering buying 216s for the design. I would consider it for the historical value but I don't want it for that reason alone. The thin stiff stock and special finish has been used before to advertise a deck of cards. I have plenty of thinner stock decks.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 02:15:21 AM by Legacy »
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #153 on: July 09, 2013, 07:26:00 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I realize this. That is basically what I'm saying. CARC is being as accurate to the original design as possible. Strangely, wasn't the original deck a blue back? It just seems feasible considering old printing methods in 1902 and CARC's own adaption of the deck (color change), a updated two way back design could have been considered.

While the original deck was blue, the colors used are authentic to the period.  Bill Kalush wanted as authentic a reproduction as he could achieve.  USPC, however, did not permit him to use the original NYCCC AoS, forcing him to use a modern Bee AoS.  His choice of the colors probably had more to do with them being less common - this is by no means a common deck.

We are not even sure if this is the deck Erdnase used. CARC is basing it off of time period and a interpretation of a 1902 illustration. The illustration theory is far fetched. This might have been a deck Erdnase "would" have used around the time of expert at the card table but its only a small period of time in an entire mans life.

It's not impossible.  We know that he used a Bee deck for the illustrations, since there's an illustration that shows the distinctive AoS.  The artist could have just as easily drawn a quick cross-hatch to represent the back of a Diamond Back deck, but he didn't - he specifically used that squiggle design.  Since there is a deck that existed at the time that was both a Bee deck and had a similar back design to the illustration, it's not implausible to think it might have been the actual deck used in the illustrations.  Of course, he could simply have been drawing a generic pattern to represent the deck back, but then why go through the trouble of reproducing in small scale the unique Bee AoS?

I'm NOT considering buying 216s for the design. I would consider it for the historical value but I don't want it for that reason alone. The thin stiff stock and special finish has been used before to advertise a deck of cards. I have plenty of thinner stock decks.

As you wish.  But you should at least check out someone else's deck before passing judgment on the stock and finish.
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Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #154 on: July 14, 2013, 04:50:10 PM »
 

RobotsEatCookies

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Daniel Madison does have red/scarlet rounders. I found this on his facebook page, posted 40 minutes ago:
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 04:51:47 PM by RobotsEatCookies »
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #155 on: July 14, 2013, 05:04:07 PM »
 

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Daniel Madison does have red/scarlet rounders. I found this on his facebook page, posted 40 minutes ago:


This is a Dealers thread. The thread for Scarlet Rounders was already created.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 05:06:48 PM by Legacy »
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #156 on: July 14, 2013, 05:27:13 PM »
 

RobotsEatCookies

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Really? I thought this was originally a Scarlet Rounders thread, and then it turned into dealers. Oh well.
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #157 on: July 15, 2013, 12:29:42 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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It was a red Rounders topic.  Past tense.  We thought the red Rounders would be the next release, but the Dealers came out instead.  We do have a new topic for red Rounders, though.
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Madison Red Dealers Deal
« Reply #158 on: July 25, 2013, 02:55:45 AM »
 

entrails

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E just released a new promotion to get a deck of scarlet dealers. All you have to do is spend $111.00 by July 28th. Or if you already have the Mechanic DVD on preorder you can spend $51 dollars more on E products. It would appear this kind of promotion is just like we/many of us thought was going to happen with the use of these scarlet decks, just not so soon. Clever use of these "rare" decks by both E and Madison.

Also the question must now be asked if these latest scarlet dealer decks are from the 400 or so that E was given originally from Madison's personal stash that they reported had sold out or in the least  were said to be no longer available  with the orders of the bricks of the green dealers? Or instead, are these from decks given to E beyond those first 400 scarlets?
 

Re: Madison Red Dealers Deal
« Reply #159 on: July 25, 2013, 10:41:36 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Also the question must now be asked if these latest scarlet dealer decks are from the 400 or so that E was given originally from Madison's personal stash that they reported had sold out or in the least  were said to be no longer available  with the orders of the bricks of the green dealers? Or instead, are these from decks given to E beyond those first 400 scarlets?

Actually, the bigger question would be - why does it matter?  There's only 2,500 decks and you can't buy them at retail.  'Nuff said.  It is a pretty sweet deal, though, especially for those of us who pre-ordered.
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Re: Madison Red Dealers Deal
« Reply #160 on: July 25, 2013, 11:26:55 AM »
 

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Also the question must now be asked if these latest scarlet dealer decks are from the 400 or so that E was given originally from Madison's personal stash that they reported had sold out or in the least  were said to be no longer available  with the orders of the bricks of the green dealers? Or instead, are these from decks given to E beyond those first 400 scarlets?

Actually, the bigger question would be - why does it matter?  There's only 2,500 decks and you can't buy them at retail.  'Nuff said.  It is a pretty sweet deal, though, especially for those of us who pre-ordered.

This is a sweet deal. I'm going to look into this more tonight.

Shouldn't this have been posted on the Madison Dealers thread? Out of respect for the Ellusionist promotion, can we move this from a Theory11 Scarlet Players thread?
 

Re: Madison Red Dealers Deal
« Reply #161 on: July 25, 2013, 11:56:13 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Also the question must now be asked if these latest scarlet dealer decks are from the 400 or so that E was given originally from Madison's personal stash that they reported had sold out or in the least  were said to be no longer available  with the orders of the bricks of the green dealers? Or instead, are these from decks given to E beyond those first 400 scarlets?

Actually, the bigger question would be - why does it matter?  There's only 2,500 decks and you can't buy them at retail.  'Nuff said.  It is a pretty sweet deal, though, especially for those of us who pre-ordered.

This is a sweet deal. I'm going to look into this more tonight.

Shouldn't this have been posted on the Madison Dealers thread? Out of respect for the Ellusionist promotion, can we move this from a Theory11 Scarlet Players thread?

Why, yes.  Yes, we can!  :))
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Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #162 on: July 25, 2013, 03:33:31 PM »
 

entrails

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Thanks for moving the post guys.

If only 400 decks were to get out then that would be rare and amazingly collectable. If all  or most of the 2500 make it to the public then its not quite as special. I already have one scarlet dealer like many of us here on this site. Im amazed how tempted I am to go ahead and get another deck by spending more cash when I don't generally spend any money  at all on E products.

I did not think that more scarlet dealers would show up in the market after just a couple of weeks.

You can also add on Madison Black dealers for 5 bucks a pack if you buy the new dvd. I might try and combine the dvd, a few black dealers and the scarlet deck into 1 package .
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #163 on: July 25, 2013, 08:32:20 PM »
 

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Thanks for moving the post guys.

If only 400 decks were to get out then that would be rare and amazingly collectable. If all  or most of the 2500 make it to the public then its not quite as special. I already have one scarlet dealer like many of us here on this site. Im amazed how tempted I am to go ahead and get another deck by spending more cash when I don't generally spend any money  at all on E products.

I did not think that more scarlet dealers would show up in the market after just a couple of weeks.

You can also add on Madison Black dealers for 5 bucks a pack if you buy the new dvd. I might try and combine the dvd, a few black dealers and the scarlet deck into 1 package .

Look at it like this: 5,000 Artifice reds were made.  3,000 were sold on the first day they were released and the rest held back for premiums.  They're STILL giving out those last 2,000 and the deck is at least two years old now.  It was out long before I started dating my second wife, and our second anniversary was earlier this month.  I wouldn't sweat the details about this deck - it's rare, some will be given out for various reasons, some will remain with Daniel Madison, and there's 2,500 total.

Here's your definitive answer as to what the deal is with red Dealers, straight off the product page for them at E - their new shopping cart system requires that all items be in the database even if they're freebies and E found it simpler to just have them post with the for-sale decks instead of manually removing them somehow:

From Daniel Madison's personal supply, Scarlet Dealers were produced in a limited print run of just 2500 decks. Held to the exact same demanding printing requirements as those used on Erdnase Green Dealers, Scarlets were printed for Daniel Madison's use only.

On initial launch of Madison Dealers, just 405 Scarlet Decks were released as gifts to a few lucky customers who purchased 12 or more of the Erdnase Green decks. Daniel has kindly said that he may release more Scarlet decks for a special promotion, however until that day, they remain in his private collection.


So 405 were released when the green Dealers went on sale.  More will occasionally dribble out here and there - but the exact number will likely never be known until the last one is given out or used up, other than to say the number will be not more than 2,500 (plus or minus USPC's normal margin for error on any print run).  If I'm not mistaken, it's +/-10%, making the precise total of decks printed between 2,750 and 2,250.  I'd say it's on the top half of that estimate, since E is stating they made 2,500 - if they made less, they'd say so, enhancing the rarity.  No matter how you slice it, they're still pretty frickin' special, regardless of how many are made available for public consumption.

(Let's not even get into how, in this computer-driven machinery age, they still can't print a precise number of decks and have to use a margin of error...)
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Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #164 on: July 29, 2013, 05:54:30 AM »
 

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Thanks for moving the post guys.

If only 400 decks were to get out then that would be rare and amazingly collectable. If all  or most of the 2500 make it to the public then its not quite as special. I already have one scarlet dealer like many of us here on this site. Im amazed how tempted I am to go ahead and get another deck by spending more cash when I don't generally spend any money  at all on E products.

I did not think that more scarlet dealers would show up in the market after just a couple of weeks.

You can also add on Madison Black dealers for 5 bucks a pack if you buy the new dvd. I might try and combine the dvd, a few black dealers and the scarlet deck into 1 package .

I'm almost sure there is no such thing as Black Dealers. Ellusionist has at this time Black Rounders or Erdnase Green Dealers.


I wanted to wait till after the $111 or additional $51 promotion was over to post this. Every now and again there are promotions that I try to figure out the best way to utilize. What I came up with was, I pre-ordered a second Mechanic DVD at the $59.99 price point. That's 1 free Scarlet Dealer and 2 free Scarlet Rounders. Timing is everything. Most likely Mechanic will not be $59.99 for long. Was I the only one who did this? You might ask yourself, what am I going to do with a second Mechanic DVD Set? Let me break it down for you.

I almost bought the Black Club to take advantage of the second signed Scarlet Rounder. I'm glad I didn't. I'm not taking anything away from Black Club but for me the Scarlet Rounders would have been the only reason to join. The Black Club would of cost me $147.00, add another $59.99 for the Mechanic DVD Set w/ 2 Scarlet Rounders (1 signed) and we come to a total $206.99 + an estimated $8 - $12 shipping.

With this $51 Scarlet Dealers promotion, my deal consisted of two (2) Mechanic DVD SET's, two (2) Scarlet Rounders (in cellophane unsigned) & one (1) Scarlet Dealer =  $119.98 + $17 shipping for two separate orders.

While it would have been cool to get something signed by Madison, I like my rare decks factory sealed. As with most signed decks, they take the cellophane off to sign them. I'm just going to wait for something else to get Madison's signature on. Some of my favorite examples of signed playing card merchandise include, the Deluxe Smoke and Mirrors set, The Blue Crown 2012 Gift Box and of course my David Blaine Split Spades Brick. All are signed, but not on the decks. The decks remain uncompromised as manufactured by USPCC.

As for the second Mechanic DVD Set, I plan to sell it at a nice discount to someone who found $59.99 to have been not affordable. Win/Win. They get the DVD they want, I get additional discount on my purchase bringing my deal under $100.00.

This was a very sweet DEAL indeed.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 06:15:44 AM by Legacy »
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #165 on: July 29, 2013, 03:04:46 PM »
 

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I meant Black Rounders for 5 bucks. Not a bad deal. Thanks for pointing that out Legacy. I got the DVD and 6 decks of the black rounders to qualify for the deal.


You will easily be able to sell the Mechanic  dvd and cut deeper into the cost of the purchase.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 03:06:35 PM by entrails »
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #166 on: February 26, 2014, 05:31:29 PM »
 

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Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #167 on: February 26, 2014, 06:15:03 PM »
 

bhong

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200$?! Come on...

http://www.ellusionist.com/madison-anything-is-possible-bottles.html

Regular Bikes AISB are normally about 100$. I guess the fact that they're also signed by Madison always raises the price up quite bit. Whether it's justified is up to the buyer. D&D have the AISB bottle with a custom deck option that cost 150$ with their list of 36 decks to choose from. If you use that as a starting point, then it comes to whether you think Madison's signature is worth the extra 50$. Though I guess you could always try to contact Jamie D. Grant to get a custom one made with whatever deck you choose to see what he charges you instead.
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #168 on: February 26, 2014, 07:30:30 PM »
 

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For one bottle, I guess that will be more or close to 100-200$. But for a business, I guess will be some rebates, don't you think? 100$ the bottle, 50$ for Madison (and I don't think you can compare Madison with David. Someone here said that David charge to much for a limited poster with his signature on it and that was 50$) and 7$ for a deck. So will be close to 150$, which let say it's worth it. If it was red or blue, that will some how understandable, because it was limited. How about if someone gives more that 100$ for a bottle on ebay, why can't we take more? Come one a lot of people are upset in E because they don't offer much and for their BC customers also. A lot of young and fullish kids sustain a part of E and their business. E is good, until to a (some) point. Don't tell that an old or middle collector will be so blind.

Anyway, who cares about customers? Sad.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2014, 07:33:05 PM by mirciusx »
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Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #169 on: February 26, 2014, 08:06:10 PM »
 

bhong

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For one bottle, I guess that will be more or close to 100-200$. But for a business, I guess will be some rebates, don't you think? 100$ the bottle, 50$ for Madison (and I don't think you can compare Madison with David. Someone here said that David charge to much for a limited poster with his signature on it and that was 50$) and 7$ for a deck. So will be close to 150$, which let say it's worth it. If it was red or blue, that will some how understandable, because it was limited. How about if someone gives more that 100$ for a bottle on ebay, why can't we take more? Come one a lot of people are upset in E because they don't offer much and for their BC customers also. A lot of young and fullish kids sustain a part of E and their business. E is good, until to a (some) point. Don't tell that an old or middle collector will be so blind.

Anyway, who cares about customers? Sad.

Companies will always do what their market dictates and lets them do. I think a 50$ signed poster is expensive. I think a 200$ DM signed Black/Brown Rounders Anything is Possible Bottle is expensive, but then I don't think either items are aim at me. I'm sure signed posters cost DB next to nothing in physical cost, but then it's like that for all business. They've got to make a high return to offset the cost of a company. The old adage applies. if you don't like it, don't buy it. When a company has a ton of stuff sitting on their warehouse shelf for months at a time, they'll realize they made a mistake. Unfortunately, yes, there's a lot of less than bright people willing to cost up the cash for such things as Signed Rounders AIPB. Save your cash and your grief and just don't care.
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #170 on: February 26, 2014, 09:21:28 PM »
 

PurpleIce

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200$?! Come on...

I, seriously, am not surprised at all. Not one least bit. Maybe i am getting used to seeing such pricing from E.

Just on a side note, this came from the e-brochure of "E".

"Shortly after Jamie began work on these bottles, his hands became crippled due to the highly detailed, repetitive work it takes to make just one of these inspirational art pieces. Unfortunately, Jamie has not yet fully recovered from his surgery, so less than 50 of each of these bottles currently exist - and may ever exist.

We wish Jamie all the best in his recovery, but at this stage cannot tell if or when we would be able to replenish our stock should these bottles sell out. "


Although i highly believe even without this reason, they will still sell at $200/bottle anyway.
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #171 on: February 27, 2014, 06:35:38 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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200$?! Come on...

I, seriously, am not surprised at all. Not one least bit. Maybe i am getting used to seeing such pricing from E.

Just on a side note, this came from the e-brochure of "E".

"Shortly after Jamie began work on these bottles, his hands became crippled due to the highly detailed, repetitive work it takes to make just one of these inspirational art pieces. Unfortunately, Jamie has not yet fully recovered from his surgery, so less than 50 of each of these bottles currently exist - and may ever exist.

We wish Jamie all the best in his recovery, but at this stage cannot tell if or when we would be able to replenish our stock should these bottles sell out. "


Although i highly believe even without this reason, they will still sell at $200/bottle anyway.

Regardless, it's not like the price hike isn't justified.  These are usually short-run in the first place, but at less than 50 available, that's the shortest run of any AIP Bottle.

BTW: anyone here wish Jamie a quick recovery?  He is a forum user, y'know.
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Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #172 on: February 27, 2014, 07:39:48 PM »
 

bhong

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BTW: anyone here wish Jamie a quick recovery?  He is a forum user, y'know.

That I did not know. Best of luck with a speedy recovery!
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #173 on: February 27, 2014, 07:49:10 PM »
 

John B.

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I am his friend of facebook. This was a more recent post of his.

Had my last follow-up appointment with my surgeon today: and it looks like everything has gone perfectly! I'm clear to go back to saving lives and blowing minds next month! Hurrah!
Do you guys even read this? Like I could have the meaning of life here and I doubt you would know it.
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #174 on: February 27, 2014, 08:31:56 PM »
 

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200$?! Come on...

I, seriously, am not surprised at all. Not one least bit. Maybe i am getting used to seeing such pricing from E.

Just on a side note, this came from the e-brochure of "E".

"Shortly after Jamie began work on these bottles, his hands became crippled due to the highly detailed, repetitive work it takes to make just one of these inspirational art pieces. Unfortunately, Jamie has not yet fully recovered from his surgery, so less than 50 of each of these bottles currently exist - and may ever exist.

We wish Jamie all the best in his recovery, but at this stage cannot tell if or when we would be able to replenish our stock should these bottles sell out. "


Although i highly believe even without this reason, they will still sell at $200/bottle anyway.

Pretty low for them to use somebodies medical condition to make them seem even more rare and make it seem like he may not be able to make any more of these. Especially since he's posted before this was sent out that he was expecting to be back at it as soon as he could. Can E get any lower?
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #175 on: February 27, 2014, 08:51:58 PM »
 

Card Player

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200$?! Come on...

I, seriously, am not surprised at all. Not one least bit. Maybe i am getting used to seeing such pricing from E.

Just on a side note, this came from the e-brochure of "E".

"Shortly after Jamie began work on these bottles, his hands became crippled due to the highly detailed, repetitive work it takes to make just one of these inspirational art pieces. Unfortunately, Jamie has not yet fully recovered from his surgery, so less than 50 of each of these bottles currently exist - and may ever exist.

We wish Jamie all the best in his recovery, but at this stage cannot tell if or when we would be able to replenish our stock should these bottles sell out. "


Although i highly believe even without this reason, they will still sell at $200/bottle anyway.

Regardless, it's not like the price hike isn't justified.  These are usually short-run in the first place, but at less than 50 available, that's the shortest run of any AIP Bottle.

BTW: anyone here wish Jamie a quick recovery?  He is a forum user, y'know.

I bought the Scarlet Dealers AIP bottle when it was exclusively offered to Black Club. The price was a little higher then I was used to seeing the AIP bottles. It was a must have for me. Jamie and Daniel from what I've read/heard seem to have a fond respect/friendship with each other. Jamie made mention on Coffee with D&D, he has AIP bottles made by other people in his collection. One of his favorites is a hilarious Daniel Madison attempt at AIP that was given to Jamie as a gift. You will also notice Daniel has an article/testimonial written by Jamie D Grant on his website. To have both collaborating on ONE signature piece, I think its worth the higher price.

When I saw Jamie on coffee w/ D&D it was mentioned that he had some sort of procedure. He was showing D&D how much flexibility he had in the wrist at that point in his recovery. It was not until I read the New Madison (Black Rounder & Green Dealers) AIP product information that I put 2 + 2 together and realized his procedure was due to making AIP's. I believe he is much further along in his recovery then Ellusionist makes it sound. However, I'm sure Jamie's doctor(s) are not recommending he continue to make AIP's. Repetitive Strain Injury (RSI) or Carpal Tunnel is not something you want to screw around with, especially if your a magician. Jamie has some decisions to make. At the very least, don't be surprised if AIP's become less frequent and harder to obtain. 
« Last Edit: February 27, 2014, 10:02:33 PM by !An0nym0u5 »
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #176 on: February 27, 2014, 09:01:28 PM »
 

John B.

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He just posted that he is fine. I am sure he will talk with them and that Ellusionist will send out an apology, saying it was not meant to be taken that way.

and this is taken from the description when you go to buy them.

Shortly after Jamie began production on these bottles, he was forced to stop work due to an injury to his hands. As such, less than 50 of each of these bottles have been produced. When we spoke to Jamie recently he confirmed that he has now bounced back 110% after his surgery and is feeling better than he has in 10 years.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2014, 09:10:35 PM by John B. »
Do you guys even read this? Like I could have the meaning of life here and I doubt you would know it.
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #177 on: February 28, 2014, 12:42:09 AM »
 

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He just posted that he is fine. I am sure he will talk with them and that Ellusionist will send out an apology, saying it was not meant to be taken that way.

and this is taken from the description when you go to buy them.

Shortly after Jamie began production on these bottles, he was forced to stop work due to an injury to his hands. As such, less than 50 of each of these bottles have been produced. When we spoke to Jamie recently he confirmed that he has now bounced back 110% after his surgery and is feeling better than he has in 10 years.

Somewhere between the Ellusionist story and Jamie's story is the truth. No one is ever 100% after needing surgery. 98% sure. Sounds like Jamie is being over optimistic. This is his livelihood after all and is going to be very protective of it.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2014, 12:45:42 AM by !An0nym0u5 »
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #178 on: February 28, 2014, 07:32:08 AM »
 

John B.

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jamie has been posting updates as he has been getting better its not he just did the surgery yesterday. Back in feburary he mentioned how it was working again,  its been healing for a few months.
Do you guys even read this? Like I could have the meaning of life here and I doubt you would know it.
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #179 on: February 28, 2014, 08:06:50 AM »
 

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You would think in this day and age companies would no better. With all the social media the truth will eventually be known. I guess E is banking on the "Non Connected" minority? Shame on E  :(

Nothing but well wishes for Jamie, get well soon!
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #180 on: February 28, 2014, 10:00:43 AM »
 

bhong

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Lee McKenzie also posted some updates in regards to Jamie as in December, when Lee was sending out rewards the Empire AISP bottles were on hold due to Jamie's injury and recovery.

Here's the link: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/kingsandcrooks/empire-playing-cards-built-to-conquer/posts/752750

The good news is that Jamie is back to full health and able to work again.
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #181 on: March 01, 2014, 12:04:24 AM »
 

Jamie D. Grant

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Heya Gang!

It's been too long since I've come by here- I need to change that!

And thank you all SO MUCH for the kind words and messages regarding my surgery! I would be lying if I said I wasn't terrified- but I'm pretty much back to full health and luckily my art hasn't been affected!!

I used to be a semi-pro bike racer so I've been riding a bike pretty much every day for twenty years. That, combined with getting older, putting decks into bottles all the time, tuning Industrial Revelations, working out, and Crossfitting, etc, just kind of wore my wrist out. I went it with some chronic pain and the doc said, "You know, we can fix that."

So in October, they did what's called a "scope". They go into your wrist with a camera and make sure there's no arthritis and to see what's what. They saw that I tore my SL ligament- but that it was repairable. So in November, I went in for full surgery! Basically, they took a piece of tendon from my forearm and then inserted it into my wrist. They drilled through 3 bones in my wrist and tied that piece of tendon around them. It tightened everything right up. Madness. When I went in for my custom cast, they castmaker asked what I had done. When I explained, he replied, "Ah. Fancy surgery." And you know what? He's right. It IS fancy surgery. And I am SO LUCKY to be a Canadian. In other countries, I'm sure they never would have even considered doing anything. And it doesn't cost me a cent. Unbelievable.

And now here we are 4 months later! I'm just now starting to feel great and have been making bottles again. Hurrah! I have to say, though, that these Madison ones are amazing. There's something about having his signature on them that makes me feel like a piece of him is in my home at all times. Haha. It sounds weird, but it's true. I look at AIPs like friends- and Madison is an awesome one.

I also know that there's always some talk about the price tags, too. And I promise you that I'm not buying a mansion on the hill or anything, lol. They take hours- and when you factor that in- with everything else, I think they're priced fairly. I know I spend hundreds on art that I love- especially if I know I'm going to keep it for years and years (my favourite is my Ricky Jay poster that I had framed. Holy smokes, now THAT was expensive, lol).

I guess that's about it! I'm definitely going to try and contribute here more! And, please, treat me like an open book! I'm the most honest guy you'll ever meet- so if you have a question about anything, don't be afraid to ask. Except for "how I make the bottles", lol. I've heard that about a million times by now. But anything else- if I can help you, I will.

Your pal,

jamie
 

Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #182 on: March 01, 2014, 12:46:43 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I was about to say that I heard from Jamie via email and he said he'd check in - but he beat me to it!

Glad to hear that the road to recovery is nearly complete!


Pretty low for them to use somebodies medical condition to make them seem even more rare and make it seem like he may not be able to make any more of these. Especially since he's posted before this was sent out that he was expecting to be back at it as soon as he could. Can E get any lower?

To be fair, Victor, it didn't sound to me like any more would be made - it sounded like E got what they could and ended the contract there, meaning that there would be no more made of that deck.  Jamie, please correct me if I'm wrong.


Somewhere between the Ellusionist story and Jamie's story is the truth. No one is ever 100% after needing surgery. 98% sure. Sounds like Jamie is being over optimistic. This is his livelihood after all and is going to be very protective of it.

I personally have had a number of surgeries where I bounced back and felt much better than I did before, with a full and complete recovery.  The most recent was when I was having chronic shoulder pain which turned out to be caused by a bone spur that was digging into a tendon.  I've had this pain on and off for over thirty years, and in a single surgery, the spur was shaved down, and I'm feeling better than I have since I was a teen - I'd call that even better than a 100% recovery, wouldn't you?

The quality of medical care available in Canada is shockingly good compared to some of the experiences others and I have had over the years, and they pay very indirectly for it in the form of their taxes - no bills, no mountains of medical debt.  Half of my family is Quebecois by origin.  Some who moved to the USA never relinquished their citizenship in Canada, and for good reason.  If I had to pay a modest bump in my taxes for free health care, you bet I'd do it.  Even with insurance, it can be a challenge these days.

To get back on track, it surprises me not in the least that Jamie would have a full and complete recovery.
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Re: Madison Dealers by Ellusionist
« Reply #183 on: March 01, 2014, 01:05:12 AM »
 

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He just posted that he is fine. I am sure he will talk with them and that Ellusionist will send out an apology, saying it was not meant to be taken that way.

and this is taken from the description when you go to buy them.

Shortly after Jamie began production on these bottles, he was forced to stop work due to an injury to his hands. As such, less than 50 of each of these bottles have been produced. When we spoke to Jamie recently he confirmed that he has now bounced back 110% after his surgery and is feeling better than he has in 10 years.

Somewhere between the Ellusionist story and Jamie's story is the truth. No one is ever 100% after needing surgery. 98% sure. Sounds like Jamie is being over optimistic. This is his livelihood after all and is going to be very protective of it.

Sorry, I missed this one! I keep forgetting that my story might not be well known here as in other places, too. So for those that don't know, I'm also a full time paramedic. I have seen trauma that not many people can even imagine. So some wrist pain/discomfort is absolute nothing in the grand scheme of things. Like, zero; nothing. So when I can come out of surgery (that isn't required to save my life) and the pain is gone. Yup, that's a 110% success. Not being protective about anything- just being my usual positive self!