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Playing Card Chat ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦ => A Cellar of Fine Vintages => Topic started by: publius on September 06, 2014, 06:21:13 PM
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Hey guys, i just purchased for what i think was a good price the deck mentioned in the title. I think it was Asad from 52 kards that said it was his favorite deck. USPC apparently was experimenting with their new block logo and did a very limited run of these cards. A few ended up in the gift shop in cincinnati, and the rest were destroyed from what i hear. What do you know about these, and how much do you think theyre worth? Thanks!
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Post a few pics of your new deck, so we know exactly what you have. ;)
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Post a few pics of your new deck, so we know exactly what you have. ;)
Yes please... Interested to see....
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This is a vintage deck, if I'm not mistaken. JMRock was on here recently selling one.
The deck was put in the Bee box style used for casino decks, with a window that allows you to see nearly half of the card back, but I don't know if technically you could really call it a Bee deck, especially with a Bicycle 808 Ace of Spades.
Tech Art is the design used for casinos - for cards 2 through 9 in value, the index is dropped from the left corner; for the 10 and the courts, the index was in the left corner; for the Aces, the card has four indices, with the left ones being dropped and the right ones being in the corner. This feature allows the dealer at a blackjack table to know if he or she was dealt a blackjack without actually seeing the faces of the cards, just the top edge as viewed through a mirror in the table. Any combination of two cards that had a left index in the corner on one and a right index in the corner on the other is equal to 21.
If I'm right, this is the deck in question.
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I am surprised at the explanation - but too old to be really surprised at anything!
Something like this if really only a few around would be worth a few hundred I would think - at least as time goes by!
What year was it made?
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This guy has had these on ebay for ages @ $20. Safe to say they are currently worth about $20. :)
They are not exceedingly rare. I've heard the gift shop story before and, while I believe it, I'm certain that a lot more than "a few" ended up there along with other outlets. These are pretty easy to get a hold of.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251639012794?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2661&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
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Thats the one kd. In doing some research, this deck routinely shows up in collectors top 5 or 10 want list for some reason. Ive seen it listed more than a few times next to brown wynns and jnuggs, 1st ed ghosts, etc. So if theyre easy to come by, theres apparently a perception that theyre not. The difference i guess is that they dont have the notoriety of those other decks, so the demand is smaller; which drives down the value obviously. At any rate, they were on my want list as well, and now i can cross them off. A small victory is still a victory!
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Awesome that you were able to cross it off your list. Congrats on the score. It is a nice deck. Enjoy!
EDIT: LET'S GO RAVENS!!!
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I thought old "Bee" decks went 16 diamonds across. These have 15...
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I dont understand these to be "old" per se; i think they were made in 2002, around the time USPC rolled out their new logo. Of course, considering the modern collector's market, where something rolls out of kickstarter and becomes an instant classic; or ellusionist sells out of a new deck in 3 days and jumps to the top of everybody's want list - these are considered ancient!
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Here's a good article on the topic:
http://playingcards.wikidot.com/bee:tech-art
From which this photo came, below. It DOESN'T have an 808 AoS but instead has a Bee AoS.
The AoS code might not have useful data for dating - it's CW0000.
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OK, now we do have somewhat of a mystery. The deck I'm getting definitely has the Bicycle 808 Ace of spades - not the Bee. It otherwise looks identical to the one pictured. Any insight on this?
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OK, now we do have somewhat of a mystery. The deck I'm getting definitely has the Bicycle 808 Ace of spades - not the Bee. It otherwise looks identical to the one pictured. Any insight on this?
You've got me. I have no idea. Perhaps there was more than one printing? In fact, there would have to be, if yours has a Bicycle Ace of Spades.
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@publlus - Lets see that AoS. Post it...
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The Bicycle logo tech arts and Bee tech arts were made in roughly equal runs - however, I have always heard that the Bicycles are slightly more scarce. Both are routinely sold for $15-20 USD on the secondary market and have been for years.
Cameron
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The Bicycle logo tech arts and Bee tech arts were made in roughly equal runs - however, I have always heard that the Bicycles are slightly more scarce. Both are routinely sold for $15-20 USD on the secondary market and have been for years.
Cameron
But he's saying he has a Bee deck - bordered diamond-back pattern with the USPC logo positioned as if it was a casino deck - but has a Bicycle Ace of Spades. Is that what you're referring to by "Bicycle-logo Tech Arts"?
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Dan,
Yessir, these are the cards I am referring to. The Bicycle ace of spades is exactly as expected and not out of the ordinary. Keep in mind that these logo tech arts were produced purely as a prototype for the USPCC's then-new logo. The Bicycle and Bee derivatives are nearly identical, we're printed in comparable numbers,and, as I mentioned, go for a reasonable price.
The ace of spades is no mystery - these have been around for 12 or 13 years now.
Best,
Cameron
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Dan,
Yessir, these are the cards I am referring to. The Bicycle ace of spades is exactly as expected and not out of the ordinary. Keep in mind that these logo tech arts were produced purely as a prototype for the USPCC's then-new logo. The Bicycle and Bee derivatives are nearly identical, we're printed in comparable numbers,and, as I mentioned, go for a reasonable price.
The ace of spades is no mystery - these have been around for 12 or 13 years now.
Best,
Cameron
Excellent - thank you for the new information! I get the feeling you're going to fit in just fine around here.
When you have a moment, may I suggest that you create a topic on the "Introduce Yourself" board, so we can give you a proper welcome to our community?
And one last thing - I don't know how this has become such a common mistake, but my name is DON, not DAN! :))
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Don,
My mistake! I made that reply from my mobile on the go and I do believe I was a victim of autocorrect. I will have to make a thread in the introductions section. Thanks for the welcome!
Cameron
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Thanks for the feedback. I would have posted pics - but I haven't opened them, and don't plan on it. It is my understanding that the ones with the Bicycle AoS are more scarce as well. I'm happy I got that version, and feel like I have a pretty good deck to add to my growing collection!
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I think I can shed some light on these decks. All of the information provided below is from memory, so I may have some numbers or details wrong. With that said, look at the attached two photos.
A bit of history:
In the late 1990's and early 2000's, casinos were asking USPC to produce a high quality Bee deck which had a generic logo in lieu of a Casino specific logo. Many different types of decks were made with generic logos on Bee decks. One common version is the decks with bumble bees on the back design. These decks were sold ONLY to Casinos. This practice ended in the mid 2000's, with the remaining sold in the USPC warehouse. In case anyone did not know - the USPC had a warehouse open for many years in Cincinnati which sold decks in bulk to local suppliers.
The Black "Tech Art" decks were produced in 2001 by USPC as test decks for casinos, with the USPC Cube Logo on the back. These decks had jumbo index tech art faces with a regular Bee box. Only 3000 of these decks were produced. Of this, many were destroyed during testing, with the remaining decks sold at the USPC Warehouse. A few locals used to buy and resell decks from the warehouse on eBay throughout the 2000's. A guy named Dave Hofmeister (ebay name pokerstud52) was lucky enough to get his hands on all of the remaining decks of these "Tech Art" Bee decks from the warehouse. He got a good deal on the decks, so he sold these locally in Cincinatti to poker tournaments and local buyers. Hundreds more were destroyed. Many years later he began selling them to a small group of magicians who fell in love with the back design. Personally, I had been waiting for years for the USPC to come out with the Bee back design with white borders. Aside from me, names I can remember of people who bought these decks were Bobby Hasbun, Lonnie Dilan, and possibly Lee Asher. I initially had around 100 decks.
The name "Tech Art Bee" was given by these early deck buyers because of the name "Jumbo Index Tech Art" on the back of the decks. Tech Art is a term that USPC uses for a particular type of face design, so the name "Tech Art Bee" is a bit of a misnomer.
Anyhow, a couple years I told Dave that I knew alot of people would be interested in buying these decks on eBay. At this point he had around 600 decks left. He sold all of his remaining decks on eBay, fairly inexpensively.
In 2005, the USPC produced ANOTHER test deck, with a VERY similar back design. It was a BLUE version of the back design but with Standard Index Bicycle faces, and actually still in a Bee box. I do not know how many of these decks were produced, definitely at least a few thousand. A Cincinnati local named Bill Merz (ebay name merz67) was the guy who was lucky enough to purchase all the decks from the warehouse. He sold all of his decks on eBay over a couple years. At one point I think I had around 4 dozen.
I only have a handful of each deck left. I sold off most of mine over the past 6-8 years. Below are photos distinguishing each deck.
(https://sites.google.com/site/cardconjurer/_/rsrc/1416267924252/tech-art/CC23.JPG?height=240&width=320)
(https://sites.google.com/site/cardconjurer/_/rsrc/1416267962266/tech-art/CC40.JPG?height=240&width=320)
(https://sites.google.com/site/cardconjurer/_/rsrc/1416267943128/tech-art/CC23b.JPG?height=240&width=320)
(https://sites.google.com/site/cardconjurer/_/rsrc/1416267983805/tech-art/CC40c.JPG?height=240&width=320)
I don't think any of this info has ever been written down, so thanks for the opportunity to put my memory to the test! Let me know if anyone has any comments or questions.
EDIT: fixed Dave's last name.
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That's some excellent information on those decks, really!
Dave is not entirely unknown around here - he doesn't log in much but he has an account and sells to our members often. In fact, if you contact him by email with an order rather than through eBay, he'll give you a little discount on your decks! (Isn't his last name "Hofmeister" and not "Hofmesiter"?)
Lee Asher? Who's that guy? Oh, yeah - he's one of the other two administrators here! :))
Bill Merz is also a known quantity. He was getting a lot of heat a few years ago for constantly churning out Bicycle decks that were made using zero creativity and clip art readily available on the Internet, then trying to sell them on eBay for multiples over what most people thought they'd be worth. Some thought the decks were being purchased by shill bidding, but it was never confirmed. He did, however, use those eBay sales to later justify a higher price for them when he started selling them at retail on his site. He did well in the days when diehard Bicycle collectors had to have every single Bicycle deck made, but such collectors are dwindling in numbers now, ever since Kickstarter unleashed a tsunami of new decks on the collecting community, many of which bearing the once-vaunted brand name. There were so many Bicycle decks out, many of which that were downright unattractive, that "diehard" was beginning to see less use when describing Bicycle collectors. I haven't seen Bill releasing many self-designed decks these days, though he still operates his online store.