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The "Cardies": 2014 First Annual Playing Card Awards nominations July & August

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Mike Ratledge

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I'd like to announce the First Annual "Cardies" - the Playing Card Awards - nomination period is two months from midnight Monday (12:01AM Tuesday) for two months, closing on 31-August at 11:59PM (all times Eastern).  This year we're doing five categories, but starting next year we'll expand to about 15-18 or 20.

Those five this year are: "Most Creative Design", "Best Deck Accessory", "Best Deck Series", "Best CrowdFunding Campaign" and "Best Overall".  After that two month nomination period we'll determine the Top 25 in each of those five categories and have a public vote from a few days later until the end of November, and award the trophies around the 1st of December.  The cutoff period is August 1st, anything delivered on or after that date or that successfully crowdfunds on or after that date will be eligible for next year in the 2nd Annual 2015 "Cardies".

It's going to be an annual thing, and we're looking for advertising from partners and friends and encourage you to share it to Social Media, etc - as often as you can!  We hope everyone do their best and help make the "Cardies" a success!  We're keeping it pretty simple this year, but next year we'll roll out the red (and black) carpet!  Nominations Here
« Last Edit: June 29, 2014, 12:33:32 AM by Mike Ratledge »
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JacksonRobinson

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what about all the decks that get created after August? Thats why they have the Oscars in February the following year.
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Mike Ratledge

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what about all the decks that get created after August? Thats why they have the Oscars in February the following year.
Actually I put that in there and somehow the message got all hosed up, and anything that happens on or after August 1st is eligible next year for the 2015 2nd annual 'Cardies'.  I knew I was still missing something when I looked at it the third time.  Sorry...  I need a little more sleep - it's been a l-o-o-o-n-g week!

Thanks, Jackson!  I fixed the OP and came back and updated this one as well.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2014, 12:31:07 AM by Mike Ratledge »
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troy

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what about all the decks that get created after August? Thats why they have the Oscars in February the following year.
Actually I put that in there and somehow the message got all hosed up, and anything that happens on or after August 1st is eligible next year for the 2015 2nd annual 'Cardies'.  I knew I was still missing something when I looked at it the third time.  Sorry...  I need a little more sleep - it's been a l-o-o-o-n-g week!

Thanks, Jackson!  I fixed the OP and came back and updated this one as well.

Then is really weird to call in 2014 Playing Card Awards. August 2014 to December 2104 decks could win the 2015 awards? Huh?
 

 

Rose

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When is the 'The Discourse' Playing Card forum Award night?  ;)
 

 

Don Boyer

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When is the 'The Discourse' Playing Card forum Award night?  ;)

We do like the Academy does - we wait for the year to end!
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Rose

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When is the 'The Discourse' Playing Card forum Award night?  ;)

We do like the Academy does - we wait for the year to end!
Awesome!  :D That is way better than half way through the year, so exciting!
 

 

Sher143

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It's halfway through the year because UC also has its 2014 best of the year awards,  which recognize the best decks in different categories and the artists who produced them,  but is also geared towards rewarding the members with awesome prizes.  The Cardies is a different format and open for everyone to participate,  even non UC members.
 

 

JacksonRobinson

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When is the 'The Discourse' Playing Card forum Award night?  ;)

We do like the Academy does - we wait for the year to end!

That makes sense to me. I know a few designers (and I don't mean me) that are going to have decks come out after August as well as in the new year during 2015. Seems cutting it off at August will always leave winners with asterisk by their names. Nobody likes to be an asterisk winner.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2014, 08:49:23 AM by JacksonRobinson »
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troy

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It's halfway through the year because UC also has its 2014 best of the year awards,  which recognize the best decks in different categories and the artists who produced them,  but is also geared towards rewarding the members with awesome prizes.  The Cardies is a different format and open for everyone to participate,  even non UC members.

Then they should call it the First half of 2014 Awards*, or the January to July 2014 Awards* or the Arbitrary 2014 Cut Off Awards*.
 

 

Sher143

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Technically it's not arbitrary,  I just gave you a reason why it was set at that time. If you really wanna be specific I suppose we could call it the 2013-2014 Awards? Since this works so well for school years in the US,  right? In the US, the school year starts in August/September and ends in May/June.  So to specify a school year,  it'd be SY 2013-2014.

Good news is,  artists releasing decks past August are still in the running for the UC or the Discourse end of the year awards.   ;) :D
« Last Edit: June 29, 2014, 09:23:05 AM by Sher143 »
 

 

Card Player

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I don't want to be insulting....

BUT...

In order for any award to have validity in an industry, the institution for which is giving the award should be recognized as being credible by the industry.

UnitedCardists and Mike are surely names we know. Mike himself is a credible businessmen and is a very knowledgeable person in the industry.  BUT... Unitedcardists is not the leading authority of playing card communities anymore.

Adding LoopCuts involvement to an award makes this award NOT credible at all. LoopsCuts/Robert Butler go hand in hand with creating new projects that don't quite fulfill their objective. I still have not received a refund from Robert for the Eco Clip. If I ever got an award with any connection to Robert, I would throw it in the garbage.

I don't know what you guys are thinking?

« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 09:41:59 AM by Card Player »
 

 

Yashi

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I don't want to be insulting....

BUT...

In order for any award to have validity in an industry, the institution for which is giving the award should be recognized as being credible by the industry.

UnitedCardists and Mike are surely names we know. Mike himself is a credible businessmen and is a very knowledgeable person in the industry.  BUT... Unitedcardists is not the leading authority of playing card communities anymore.

Adding LoopCuts involvement to an award makes this award NOT credible at all. It would be like Bernie Madoff having an award for investors. LoopsCuts/Robert Butler go hand in hand with creating new projects that don't quite fulfill their objective. I still have not received a refund from Robert for the Eco Clip. If I ever got an award with any connection to Robert, I would throw it in the garbage.

I don't know what you guys are thinking?

Must there really be a "leading authority" for this sort of hobby? If so, who do you think would qualify as the "leading authority" and what would be the criteria for it's selection?
 

 

DarkDerp

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I don't want to be insulting....

BUT...

In order for any award to have validity in an industry, the institution for which is giving the award should be recognized as being credible by the industry.

UnitedCardists and Mike are surely names we know. Mike himself is a credible businessmen and is a very knowledgeable person in the industry.  BUT... Unitedcardists is not the leading authority of playing card communities anymore.

Adding LoopCuts involvement to an award makes this award NOT credible at all. It would be like Bernie Madoff having an award for investors. LoopsCuts/Robert Butler go hand in hand with creating new projects that don't quite fulfill their objective. I still have not received a refund from Robert for the Eco Clip. If I ever got an award with any connection to Robert, I would throw it in the garbage.

I don't know what you guys are thinking?

Must there really be a "leading authority" for this sort of hobby? If so, who do you think would qualify as the "leading authority" and what would be the criteria for it's selection?

And if there is one does there need to be a 2013-14 School Year Annual Playing Card Awards?
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Mike Ratledge

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Everybody is always a nay-sayer.  Anything that came out from August 2013 until the end of next month is eligible for nominations, and again - we already have our own 2014 Deck of the Year awards coming for UC member in January, just like we always do.  Last year we gave away more than $3500 in retail value in prizes, and this year I've already got more stuff than I can give away so I capped the value at $4000 and I'm working on the "2015" stash.  That means that the average value of the prizes this year will be over $200 and nearly $250, with the top prize value around $500 just for voting in a contest.  If anyone can do better, point me the way, please.

I agree that adding Bobby is/was/will be controversial, but he's just like anyone else that deserves an opportunity to redeem himself.  Ade Suryana designed the graphics and card clips, and we've got one more graphic artist doing some more design work as well.  I suppose I could always ask Lorenzo, Lotrek or (can't say) to do something, but they would be wasting their time when they could be working on "what's next".  I'm flexible, so we might move it slightly, it's not cast in stone - yet, but I don't want to get like "the Academy" and be awarding prizes to movies that nobody but them has every seen yet, either - just so they can say they "include" everything that year - they don't: they include movies the Academy CHOOSES to include from basically January and February release coming out the following year.
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DarkDerp

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Wait. You get prizes for voting?
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Mike Ratledge

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Wait. You get prizes for voting?
In the UC annual Deck of the Year contest?  Sure, we gave away 18 prizes last year and Jackson added 3 more after-the-fact - really nice, sweet groupings of his decks that were a truly nice gesture!

The "Cardies"/PlayingCardAwards?  There will be some random things for voters that are small things, like UC2014/Grotesque decks, a card clip or three, things like that.  The trophies go to the 5 category winners.
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troy

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Everybody is always a nay-sayer.  Anything that came out from August 2013 until the end of next month is eligible for nominations, and again - we already have our own 2014 Deck of the Year awards coming for UC member in January, just like we always do.  Last year we gave away more than $3500 in retail value in prizes, and this year I've already got more stuff than I can give away so I capped the value at $4000 and I'm working on the "2015" stash.  That means that the average value of the prizes this year will be over $200 and nearly $250, with the top prize value around $500 just for voting in a contest.  If anyone can do better, point me the way, please.

I don't think people have a problem with giving away prizes and what not. That's shifting the discussion. The problem is calling it a 2014 award and cutting off decks from August to December 2014. Change the name to the Mid 2014 Cardies Award or whatever and have the 2014 Deck of the Year Awards that cover August to December 2014...wait, they would cover January to December 2014, right?

Can you see where this makes absolutely no sense. It's not being a nay-sayer, it's a common sense issue. It's a manufactured award with craziness built in from the very foundation.

Offering prizes is really nice, but by mentioning it you're not focusing on the key issues.

If you're looking for a a way you can do better, it's easy to point to a simple solution. Have the 2014 awards cover January to December. Or don't call it the 2014 awards.
 

 

Mike Ratledge

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Everybody is always a nay-sayer.  Anything that came out from August 2013 until the end of next month is eligible for nominations, and again - we already have our own 2014 Deck of the Year awards coming for UC member in January, just like we always do.  Last year we gave away more than $3500 in retail value in prizes, and this year I've already got more stuff than I can give away so I capped the value at $4000 and I'm working on the "2015" stash.  That means that the average value of the prizes this year will be over $200 and nearly $250, with the top prize value around $500 just for voting in a contest.  If anyone can do better, point me the way, please.

I don't think people have a problem with giving away prizes and what not. That's shifting the discussion. The problem is calling it a 2014 award and cutting off decks from August to December 2014. Change the name to the Mid 2014 Cardies Award or whatever and have the 2014 Deck of the Year Awards that cover August to December 2014...wait, they would cover January to December 2014, right?

Can you see where this makes absolutely no sense. It's not being a nay-sayer, it's a common sense issue. It's a manufactured award with craziness built in from the very foundation.

Offering prizes is really nice, but by mentioning it you're not focusing on the key issues.

If you're looking for a a way you can do better, it's easy to point to a simple solution. Have the 2014 awards cover January to December. Or don't call it the 2014 awards.
No, in fact there are absolutely no issues except those the drama queens seem to dream up to counter the real-world observations that the Oscars from the Motion Pictures Academy are anything BUT an annual award, although they are certainly presented as such.  If you disagree with that, then either you're quite unobservant or just argumentative.  They are giving away trophies for movies that for all intents and purposes do not yet exist, for anyone except the motion picture industry - including those that in some cases are never actually shown.  Admittedly that is the exception rather than the rule, but it has happened - numerous times, and every single year the give out trophies for movies that don't premier until at least two months after they get the awards.  Now, seriously - just how much sense does that make?

PlayingCardAwards will be an annual thing, this year we are starting out with a simple 5-category nominations and voting.  If you don't like it - I suggest that you don't nominate nor vote - pretty simple.  Interesting that all I have gotten from industry insiders is kudos for being innovative, but I listen.

The awards will ALWAYS run be for Playing Card Deck (and campaigns) that were run or delivered from August the prior year until the middle of the nominations period, which will ALWAYS be from August 1st until September 30th.  The nominations will be counted and the top 25 in each of the five categories will be validated to be within that timeframe or they will be 'silently discarded'.

After that, around the 10th of October until November 30th there will be an online voting process that is fair, equitable and universal - not focused on any certain group nor private in nature as my previous endeavors have all been (limited to UC membership only).  The voting won't need to be tallied, it will be counted in real-time, although the "Likes" will not be publicly posted for obvious reasons. We will have procedures in place to prevent "ballot stuffing", which - knowing this community - will certainly occur otherwise.  For some reason the nominees can't resist to notify everyone that has ever purchased one of their products to vote, whether or not they even care for that specific deck (campaign, whatever) or not.  As usual, I've thought this out quite a bit.  During the first week of December the winners will be announced and the trophies presented.  Do I expect media coverage this year?  Beyond the Playing Card community, not really.  Will it be promoted outside our small specific and closed group in the future?  You bet it will!

We've even given thought to making it basically exactly like the Motion Picture Academy or Arts and Sciences holds their votes, by offering ballots only to key industry people, but that's not going to happen this year - perhaps next?  Never-the-less, I'm quite certain that someone - at least one if not numerous people - will pull some sort of chicanery.  It's just unavoidable in our little world.

Weill it be totally fair?  If I can help it, it surely will be.  Will it be completely impartial?  As far as myself, I have no vested interest in the outcome, I simply wish to honor the excellent progress that has occurred in our industry over the past 11 (by late August 12) months.  Am I getting paid to do so?  Quite in opposite, I'm paying for it all out-of-pocket, along with Bobby Butler.  Am I aware of his previous problems and the general feelings of many people in the industry? You must be living under a rock, I suppose if that's what you assume, in fact I was responsible for routing out  a bit of it myself, to the point that I know more than anyone else exactly what happened.  Am I an overly forgiving person?  Perhaps.  Does it make sense to have a witch hunt and ride him out on a rail?  I don't think so - your mileage surely will vary.  Does it bother me?  Not one little bit.  Is all of this too much for me to handle with me opening a new global business here in one month, hosting the 2014 "52+Joker" convention here in my hometown of Charleston, etc, etc ad nauseum?  Nope, it's how I run: wide open all the time, always have, always will - I'll slow down when they chunk me in the dirt.

Do I expect everyone to be happy?  Surely you jest?  There IS no consensus in this industry, in fact the only consistency is inconsistency.

OK, nothing to see here for the most part - move along, now...
« Last Edit: June 29, 2014, 08:50:27 PM by Mike Ratledge »
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troy

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No, in fact there are absolutely no issues except those the drama queens seem to dream up to counter the real-world observations that the Oscars from the Motion Pictures Academy are anything BUT an annual award, although they are certainly presented as such.  If you disagree with that, then either you're quite unobservant or just argumentative.  They are giving away trophies for movies that for all intents and purposes do not yet exist, for anyone except the motion picture industry - including those that in some cases are never actually shown.  Admittedly that is the exception rather than the rule, but it has happened - numerous times, and every single year the give out trophies for movies that don't premier until at least two months after the yget the awards.  Now, seriously - just how much sense does that make?

PlayingCardAwards will be an annual thing, this year we are starting out with a simple 5-category nominations and voting.  If you don't like it - I suggest that you don't nominate nor vote - pretty simple.  Interesting that all I have gotten from industry insiders is kudos for being innovative, but I listen.

The awards will ALWAYS run be for Playing Card Deck (and campaigns) that were run or delivered from August the prior year until the middle of the nominations period, which will ALWAYS be from August 1st until September 30th.  The nominations will be counted and the top 25 in each of the five categories will be validated to be within that timeframe or they will be 'silently discarded'.

After that, around the 10th of October until November 30th there will be an online voting process that is fair, equitable and universal - not focused on any certain group nor private in nature as my previous endeavors have all been (limited to UC membership only).  The voting won't need to be tallied, it will be counted in real-time, although the "Likes" will not be publicly posted for obvious reasons. We will have procedures in place to prevent "ballot stuffing", which - knowing this community - will certainly occur otherwise.  For some reason the nominees can't resist to notify everyone that has ever purchased one of their products to vote, whether or not they even care for that specific deck (campaign, whatever) or not.  As usual, I've thought this out quite a bit.  During the first week of December the winners will be announced and the trophies presented.  Do I expect media coverage this year?  Beyond the Playing Card community, not really.  Will it be promoted outside our small specific and closed group in the future?  You bet it will!

We've even given thought to making it basically exactly like the Motion Picture Academy or Arts and Sciences holds their votes, but offering ballots only to key industry people, but that's not going to happen this year - perhaps next?  Never-the-less, I'm quite certain that someone - at least one if not numerous people - will pull some sort of chicanery.  It's just unavoidable in our little world.

Weill it be totally fair?  If I can help it, it surely will be.  Will it be completely impartial?  As far as myself, I have no vested interest in the outcome, I simply wish to honor the excellent progress that has occurred in our industry over the past 11 (by late August 12) months.  Am I getting paid to do so?  Quite in opposite, I'm paying for it all out-of-pocket, along with Bobby Butler.  Am I aware of his previous problems and the general feelings of many people in the industry? You must be living under a rock, I suppose if that's what you assume, in fact I was responsible for routing out  a bit of it myself, to the point that I know more than anyone else exactly what happened.  Am I an overly forgiving person?  Perhaps.  Does it make sense to have a witch hunt and ride him out on a rail?  I don't think so - your mileage surely will vary.  Does it bother me?  Not one little bit.  Is all of this too much for me to handle with me opening a new global business here in one month, hosting the 2014 "52+Joker" convention here in my hometown of Charleston, etc, etc ad nauseum?  Nope, it's how I run: wide open all the time, always have, always will - I'll slow down when they chunk me in the dirt.

Do expect everyone to be happy?  Surely you jest?  There IS no consensus in this industry, in fact the only consistency is inconsistency.

OK, nothing to see here for the most part - move along, now...

Wrong.

http://www.oscars.org/awards/academyawards/rules/87/pdf/87aa_rules.pdf

RULE THREE - THE AWARDS YEAR and DEADLINES
 
1. The required Los Angeles County qualifying run (described in Rule Two Paragraph 2) must begin
between January 1, 2014, and midnight of December 31, 2014.
 

 

Mike Ratledge

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Interesting that you would use their rules - only to prove them wrong, but - never-the-less, the rules might well be what they SAY is required, but if the MEMBERS view them during that time they still have not been released to the public, and every single year for the past 40 years they have awarded at least one trophy to some non-existent movie, as far as the viewers are concerned.  They allow those movies that have been viewed only by the academy to qualify, when in fact they have not yet been released, in fact last year there were some 4 or 5 awards given to movies that had not yet premiered in theaters.  It's kind of a spurious argument on your behalf, since we're not allowing things that have not yet been delivered (or campaigns not yet run) - or would you prefer we predict the future?
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troy

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Interesting that you would use their rules - only to prove them wrong, but - never-the-less, the rules might well be what they SAY is required, but if the MEMBERS view them during that time they still have not been released to the public, and every single year for the past 40 years they have awarded at least one trophy to some non-existent movie, as far as the viewers are concerned.  They allow those movies that have been viewed only by the academy to qualify, when in fact they have not yet been released, in fact last year there were some 4 or 5 awards given to movies that had not yet premiered in theaters.

Viewers don't vote. Members of the academy do. They have access to see all the movies nominated, either in the theaters and/or on DVD in case they've missed them in the theaters. The movies are indeed released as per the rules in order to qualify. To say a "non-existent movie" received an award is nutso on your part. Just because you haven't seen the movie, shouldn't be the barometer for existence.

It's kind of a spurious argument on your behalf, since we're not allowing things that have not yet been delivered (or campaigns not yet run) - or would you prefer we predict the future?

Don't predict the future. Don't use 2014 in the awards, unless it's from January 1st to December 31st. Make the cutoff for decks SHIPPED during that time period. Voila.

You can have the last world. Obviously this is your push on the card industry, and you've made up your mind. When someone sees everyone else as Drama Queens, the problem goes farther than that person's perception.
 

 

Mike Ratledge

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I don't - I just see people arguing for the sake of either arguing or hearing themselves.  It's August 1, 2013 to July 31, 2014 for this year - and for every year following.
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troy

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I don't - I just see people arguing for the sake of either arguing or hearing themselves.  It's August 1, 2013 to July 31, 2014 for this year - and for every year following.

A deck from September 15th, 2013 could win the 2014 award?

Why is August 1, 2013 to July 31, 2014 better than January 1, 2014 to December 31st, 2014? Seriously.

Oops. Didn't let you have the last word...LOL
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 12:15:21 AM by troy »
 

 

Mike Ratledge

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I don't - I just see people arguing for the sake of either arguing or hearing themselves.  It's August 1, 2013 to July 31, 2014 for this year - and for every year following.

A deck from September 15th, 2013 could win the 2014 award?

Why is August 1, 2013 to July 31, 2014 better than January 1, 2014 to December 31st, 2014? Seriously.

Oops. Didn't let you have the last word...LOL
I suppose you think it should be the 2013.75 awards?  Nevermind...  Sorry to be so bull-headed, this was as we intended all along so as not to screw up the UC2014 Deck of the Year awards that are a tradition "over there".  Just like having excellent "You heard/saw/got it here first" things, and my "Something Wicked This Way Comes part xx" games.  We have fun over there.  It's curious that the only new posts I ever see here are my own unless I am in the vintage and antique decks (or 52+Joker) area.
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troy

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I don't - I just see people arguing for the sake of either arguing or hearing themselves.  It's August 1, 2013 to July 31, 2014 for this year - and for every year following.

A deck from September 15th, 2013 could win the 2014 award?

Why is August 1, 2013 to July 31, 2014 better than January 1, 2014 to December 31st, 2014? Seriously.

Oops. Didn't let you have the last word...LOL
I suppose you think it should be the 2013.75 awards?  Nevermind...  Sorry to be so bull-headed, this was as we intended all along so as not to screw up the UC2014 Deck of the Year awards that are a tradition "over there".  Just like having excellent "You heard/saw/got it here first" things, and my "Something Wicked This Way Comes part xx" games.  We have fun over there.  It's curious that the only new posts I ever see here are my own unless I am in the vintage and antique decks (or 52+Joker) area.

Call in the 1st Annual Cardies (August 1, 2013 to July 31, 2014) and you're done. By putting 2014 in there doesn't make sense.

Done (for real this time) :P
 

 

Mike Ratledge

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Are you certain?  I kind of doubt it, honestly.  It's the First Annual Playing Card Awards, and they occur in 2014, and the second annual ones will be in 2015.  Seems simple enough for me, then again...
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 12:30:26 AM by Mike Ratledge »
> Mike <

Opinions are my own, your mileage WILL vary...

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DarkDerp

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Yeah, sry man. No matter how you slice it the Best Deck of 2014  needs to be ....we'll the best deck of 2014.  U could totally run the nomination and voting  as planned but for the year 2013.

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Don Boyer

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Guys, why all the fuss?

If he wants to run an award ceremony now, or January, or next leap day, or whatever - let him!

We kinda glossed over this past year here because of the change of ownership, but I'm hoping that when January rolls around we'll have our usual "Best of the Year" lists, take votes, etc.
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CBJ

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To have a 2014 awards in the middle of 2014 makes no sense at all. This should be held in Feb


You're moving too fast on everything Mike, it's going to implode


This seems rushed and ill-timed.
Also, as everyone is aware, I think the involvement of Robert Butler in anything is just a bad move.
Whatever happened to all the other prizes Robert had collected for his film festival that flopped??

Robert wrote to me on April 24, 2012:

"We just did a head count for our sponsors and prizes listed and were giving away 95 Decks and 6 uncut sheets in our Film Festival"

Where did all those items go? They definitely didn't go to the 2 entries you had


I will not be taking part in this at all, I want nothing to do with anything Robert is involved in, and I have no interest in hearing his BS apologies.
Why is Robert even needed for this is you already have a yearly award thing at UC.

This just really REALLY makes no sense at all.

Jay
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Loop Cuts

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Wow, this has run away without me!  I know this event isn't perfect and it has it's flaws but I will work to make sure it works better in the future.  So far it has developed nicely and I've spoken to many people about doing this on a larger scale.  Finger crossed that with time it turns out to everyone's favor.

Cheers
 

 

Rob Wright

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Mike, Thanks for doing this. looks to be pretty fun. It's your sandbox, your rules. I'm cool with that.
I would say anyone that doesn't like the way it's set up- well maybe create a yearly award yourself.
The timeline really doesn't matter. You can buy a 2015 Ford now. It's not 2015 yet. That's what I'm mad about!  >:(
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DarkDerp

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I don't think anyone is actually angry about the timing. The consensus seems more sloooooooow down.
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Rob Wright

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I don't think anyone is actually angry about the timing. The consensus seems more sloooooooow down.

 :-\  Every other post is "should be Jan 1- Dec 31, I think I saw slow down in one post before yours.

Why?
Why should Mike slow down?
UC was on the verge of non existence. He bought it, and turned it around.
He extended an olive branch to us her on PCF- For us to work together as two different forums to promote this thing we all love.
He's starting the Card Launcher thing. Everyone bitches about how KS doesn't protect the buyer, and so on. He didn't bitch. He thought of a better way, and is doing it. I think the system looks pretty dam good.
The guy is super passionate about playing cards, and is promoting them anyway he can, There is nothing wrong with that. F slowing down. I say put it overdrive.
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Card Player

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Why is Robert even needed for this is you already have a yearly award thing at UC.

"Generally speaking" Birds of a feather flock together.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 05:04:01 PM by Card Player »
 

 

CBJ

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All of my posts regarding this are now being deleted at UC by Mike.

And I noticed how Robert/LoopNuts totally ignored my comment/question about the film festival's prizes that he kept


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Don Boyer

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Wow, this has run away without me!  I know this event isn't perfect and it has it's flaws but I will work to make sure it works better in the future.  So far it has developed nicely and I've spoken to many people about doing this on a larger scale.  Finger crossed that with time it turns out to everyone's favor.


Why not apply better organization and more time - and get it right (or at least closer to it) on the first go-around?

It is unfortunate but over the past few years, Rob, you earned yourself a less-than-stellar rep as a businessman, and I'm being polite.  Perhaps you should work on that first?  Before any kind of joint ventures?  People aren't likely to forget your history that fast.

All of my posts regarding this are now being deleted at UC by Mike.

And I noticed how Robert/LoopNuts totally ignored my comment/question about the film festival's prizes that he kept

I noticed that, as well.  Jay, you're welcome to speak here and I'm not deleting your posts.  It was one of the issues that sank UC in the first place under the previous ownership.

The only thing I ask is that we all behave in a civil manner - and be careful not to post anything that can be challenged in a civil court!  (I know it's tempting but please refrain from name calling, folks...)

So, Robert/LoopCuts - I think we deserve to know what happened with that film contest and the promised prizes.  Don't expect your credibility to improve without owning up to your past; we aren't idiots.

If this tangent grows too much, I'm going to make a new topic of it.
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S. Carey

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wait, there was a playing card film festival? Was it cardistry related or an actual event that playing movies that had playing cards in them?

Anyway, this is kinda cool but unless it is an actual event at a playing card/magic convention or has enough funding and support to be a stand a lone event, it just seems like its a glorified online poll/survey. It is not any secret that Jackson will win Favorite designer or Jason will win Best Bicycle collector or Albino Dragon will win Best Licensing etc...If you look at project numbers and general posts on the forums/facebook about this or that topic, you can pretty much figure out who should win the award.   
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 10:01:53 PM by S. Carey »
 

 

Don Boyer

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wait, there was a playing card film festival? Was it cardistry related or an actual event that playing movies that had playing cards in them?
 

Rob was promoting a film festival of sorts, videos with playing card action - to my knowledge, there were only two entries and the whole thing didn't get terribly far before we stopped hearing about it.

We have a raft of topics about it, if you feel like researching a little.  Could make a good article.  You'll see an old account name, "Robert Butler", that Rob abandoned when he was banned at one point but reinstated - that account has since been deleted at Rob's request though the posts are still present.  The company name he was using at the time was either Conjuring Creations or Pipsqueek.com.  I present them in no particular order.

http://www.playingcardforum.com/the-conversation-parlor/cc's-film-festival-teaser/
http://www.playingcardforum.com/playing-card-plethora/2012-film-festival/
http://www.playingcardforum.com/playing-card-plethora/film-festival-2012-prize-list/
http://www.playingcardforum.com/playing-card-plethora/pip-squeek-epic-event!/
http://www.playingcardforum.com/official-aether-discussions/robert-butler-lee-zarro/

The last one is especially noteworthy - Robert engaged in conversation on Facebook with Jay by posing as someone named "Lee Zarro", which understandably pissed him off, since by this point Rob's business rep was at an all-time low and Jay (and many others) wanted nothing to do with him.
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S. Carey

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ah yes. I was not a member of the forum at this point. Thanks for sharing.
 

 

Rob Wright

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wait, there was a playing card film festival? Was it cardistry related or an actual event that playing movies that had playing cards in them?
 

Rob was promoting a film festival of sorts, videos with playing card action - to my knowledge, there were only two entries and the whole thing didn't get terribly far before we stopped hearing about it.

We have a raft of topics about it, if you feel like researching a little.  Could make a good article.  You'll see an old account name, "Robert Butler", that Rob abandoned when he was banned at one point but reinstated - that account has since been deleted at Rob's request though the posts are still present.  The company name he was using at the time was either Conjuring Creations or Pipsqueek.com.  I present them in no particular order.



Don, when referring to RB, please don't call him Rob. I don't know the guy, have not had any dealings with him, don't plan to. I just don't want someone confusing me for him.  ;)
It has happened before.
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DarkDerp

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wait, there was a playing card film festival? Was it cardistry related or an actual event that playing movies that had playing cards in them?
 

Rob was promoting a film festival of sorts, videos with playing card action - to my knowledge, there were only two entries and the whole thing didn't get terribly far before we stopped hearing about it.

We have a raft of topics about it, if you feel like researching a little.  Could make a good article.  You'll see an old account name, "Robert Butler", that Rob abandoned when he was banned at one point but reinstated - that account has since been deleted at Rob's request though the posts are still present.  The company name he was using at the time was either Conjuring Creations or Pipsqueek.com.  I present them in no particular order.



Don, when referring to RB, please don't call him Rob. I don't know the guy, have not had any dealings with him, don't plan to. I just don't want someone confusing me for him.  ;)
It has happened before.

There he is!!! Get em!!
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Don Boyer

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wait, there was a playing card film festival? Was it cardistry related or an actual event that playing movies that had playing cards in them?
 

Rob was promoting a film festival of sorts, videos with playing card action - to my knowledge, there were only two entries and the whole thing didn't get terribly far before we stopped hearing about it.

We have a raft of topics about it, if you feel like researching a little.  Could make a good article.  You'll see an old account name, "Robert Butler", that Rob abandoned when he was banned at one point but reinstated - that account has since been deleted at Rob's request though the posts are still present.  The company name he was using at the time was either Conjuring Creations or Pipsqueek.com.  I present them in no particular order.



Don, when referring to RB, please don't call him Rob. I don't know the guy, have not had any dealings with him, don't plan to. I just don't want someone confusing me for him.  ;)
It has happened before.

For the record, I was referring to Rob Butler and not Rob Wright!  Rob Wright had nothing to do with Rob Butler or any of his ventures.  :))
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Loop Cuts

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Hey guys, lets have a sit down and talk about the truth behind me and my past.  CBJ is right about one thing, back then I was very messed up and unethical.  I'm sure those were never his words exactly but you get the gist. So here it goes....

Two years ago I was highly ambitious about the industry.  I spoke to great minds like Jason Brumbalow, Lace Miller, Dave Buck and so on.  Shared some of my concepts and some were loved while others were not.  I was so eager to make my mark that I put on my running shoes before reading the guide and my ethics were nonexistent.  It's not because I wanted to take what I could how I could... It's because I was usually in over my head and when I got into hot water, I tried to fix a problem by creating a new one.  I started with a YouTube channel called magicians work shop.  It was small but I was reviewing cards in a different way. This gained the attention of a few people and BMPoker was one of them.  He sponsored me and sent me tons of decks to review.  I suddenly had so much more to do than I had expect and was really happy.  Lance was helping me with branding at the time and also teaching me on how to build on something great.  With my ambition though, I was it evolving in my head and had to take the steps to see it do so.  I then created Modern Manipulator and that was meant to be the next step for me.  I had great things going for me and I had finally established a sponsored relationship with Ellusionist, which is very hard to do!  I was sent the Red artifice decks way before they were released and had an exclusive interview about them.  As I set up the launch of MM I was ready to sell our very first e-mag.  After launch though I realized that I was doing something wrong... We sold none of the mags and I was lost... Confused and irritated. I closed MM thinking I could do better, figure it out and get back to the basics. 

So as you see, I was already making HUGE mistakes.  I had broken a sponsorship with BMPoker, closed two of my projects, creating doubt in the community that anything I was going to do would last.  I didn't even see what I was doing was doing more harm than good.  Lets speed up the clock a little to a time frame more recognized by many of you....

Conjuring Creations... My come back Idea.  A bamboo card clip that was actually pretty cool.  My ability to create and design a project had evolved.  My concept for marketing had improved and I was getting a better grip on how to manage my own thoughts.  I managed to raise enough money, ON THIS SITE NO DOUBT, to bring about the first prototypes of the ECO CARD CLIP.  This was beyond exciting and I charged a very low price to get people interested.  HUGE MISTAKE.  I didn't realize I was undercutting my self and would damage the entire production and delivery process because of it.  I was short on money due to not having enough left over for shipping.  I was in full panic mode and I could see the success down the road waiting on me.  I sent what I could out then quickly pulled in Encarded as my first client.  I figured with profits from that venture that I could make the money, ship everything out and all would be right with the world. 

(SEE IT?<--- That is my big unethical mistake... that I repeated over and over because I panicked, because I didn't take the time to research and perfect things.)

Next was 4PM Designs.  I pulled them in as my second client before the Encarded clips were even done.  The wood shop was overwhelmed by the demand and was kinda lost in a mix of Happy and worried. I know now that I should have perfected the production process, asked the shop the right questions...like... "what would happen if damaged clips came in?  What time frame would an order of this size take to complete.?"  I didn't even quote any of the clients a time frame.  Looking back... I'm ashamed of it all.  I had created a perfectly amazing product that was doomed from day one because I was the one that created it.

Over time the timelines were becoming more and more unclear as to when they would be finished and each client was stressed as well.  Communication broke down because at one point 4PM Designs was ready to cancel the order but I explained that a refund wasn't possible due to all of the money being invested in production.  I told the shop that they were ready to pull out.  In confusion, Encarded was told by the shop that I was considering canceling an order and Encarded was ready to flip out...  Why in the world was that going on?  And it was a break down and mix up between to clients information. 

Over the next month or two, things were getting worse for me.  I spent my end of the profit, and was also selling some decks to make up for the financial crisis in the making. 

PIVOTAL MOMENT:  I sold a huge lot of decks to a buyer and also sold a single deck to another.  I manged to ship them to the wrong addresses.  I panicked in a huge way.  I contacted the person that was receiving the huge order to inform them of the mistake and told them I would pay for the return shipping if they could please help me fix it.  After many messages back and forth, they claim it never arrived.  The person that spent hundreds of dollars on there order was furious.  I was now on the line for lips, for the sold decks and I was in a lot of trouble.  This is when people started talking EVERYWHERE.  I went into hiding..............

......

......

All was silent and I created the FB Alias Lee Zero....WHY?  Mainly because I couldn't stop... My brain is a bunch of gears in motion, always building, wanting to create.  I should have been taking time to reflect to see how things had become such a mess.  But rather I decided to help Vanda get established and help them get there KS deck funded.  David decided to keep it secret because he needed the help and he likely didn't understand the depth of my troubles.  I helped him get 100% and to CBJ's dismay worked with him as well.  During the talks with CBJ I asked him about my self... YEAH, very messed up but I did it because I wanted to know how bad it was for me.  I knew the community was very angry with me and I had to know.




Looking back... yeah things were great and I ruined it because of my inexperience and my ambition.  I should have taken the time to research, to learn from my mistakes before making new ones.  I should have stopped and fixed something vs creating another issue to fix one.  I have had the incredible privilege of understanding from people like Lance Miller, Paul Carpenter, and others that prefer not to be mentioned.  I NOT ONCE wanted to cause problems or hurt people.  I simply would not slow down and focus and listen.  I'm still paying the price for it today.  I take full responsibility of my actions and bear the burden almost daily.  I try to reach out to anyone that comes forwards and offer a solution.  I know I cannot stop growing and give up.


FILM FEST QUESTION

Most of the prizes were never sent to me. Only seasons prizes & D&D prizes were.  I've spoken to Alex Chin regarding it and he told me that I have to learn from my mistakes and he was hard on me about it.  As he should be.  D&D prizes were not returned.  I never had the money to do so.  I don't have a happy ending for a lot of what has happened and I regret it. 


WHAT HAS CHANGED? 

Well the first step to fixing a problem is always admitting you have one. So here it goes.  I'm bad with money, I'm even worse with follow through.  I'm bad with people and sometime let my anger speak for me. 

I have taken more time that you know to reflect to see the damage I've caused.  I now have my partner Katrina White to manage accounts to be sure I'm not tempted with reckless impulses.  It allows me to focus on the bigger picture.  I also take time now to develop a concept.  I let it sit and then come back to it.  I know to many of you the Playing Card Awards seems rushed, but I've been planning it for almost a year now. 

LOOP CUTS has been selling again recently and we have shipped 100% of our sold products and have kept a clean track record.  Things are not the same as they once were. 

The Playing Card Awards are in play and it's doing very very well.  On day 1 we had 125 nominations and more are coming in.  The trophys are being made by a sponsor and will be shipped out by them.  Any prizes are being provided by a sponsor and will be shipped out by them as well.  The event is 100% on the up and up.  I know when my name comes up that many bad things follow but give it a chance, please.




Let me close by saying this.  I'm am truly sorry 100% for all the past mistakes.  I'm not interested in hiding the truth.  I beg each and everyone of you to please, please give me the chance to do what I love.  Let me move on and let me grow.  I'm now reading "The Purple Cow".  It's a marketing book... I want to do the time to research, I want to do right by all of you but I just need the opportunity.

CBJ... I'm sorry man.  I know we are past apologies and you simply don't want anything to do with me and I will respect that.  I admit to my wrong doing... please just let me be.  Let me live my life. 


Thank you all for your time. 
 

 

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@ loop cuts

Quote
Over the next month or two, things were getting worse for me.  I spent my end of the profit, and was also selling some decks to make up for the financial crisis in the making. 

The way I see it... You never had a profit. What do you mean your end? It's not a profit until all your expenses are paid. You don't just take what you want.

Quote
I pulled them in

Interesting usage of words.



 

 

Loop Cuts

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@ loop cuts

Quote
Over the next month or two, things were getting worse for me.  I spent my end of the profit, and was also selling some decks to make up for the financial crisis in the making. 

The way I see it... You never had a profit. What do you mean your end? It's not a profit until all your expenses are paid. You don't just take what you want.

Quote
I pulled them in

Interesting usage of words.





It was an expression but I see how you make it a play on words.  And yes I know that I spent what was expected to be profits before I should have.  Big mistake.

Thanks
 

 

Don Boyer

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I tried to find a good place to break this Butler stuff into a new topic, but they're too intertwined at the beginning.

Mike, I do apologize for the clutter here - if you wish to start a new topic for the Cardies, please do so.

I'm choosing to remain neutral about the situation.  I'll wait and watch, see if he does indeed carry through with his plans.

Rob B., would you kindly describe LoopCuts' involvement with the Cardies?  You mentioned sponsors, prizes, nominations - you didn't really connect those dots into a picture.  It'll give us a chance to get this topic back on track.
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Loop Cuts

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Absolutely, not a problem Don. 

Loop Cuts is making a special PCA clip that is a two clip deal.  We are only giving one away in the PCA event with a UC deck inside of it.  Just one of the many giveaways.  Other than that, Loop Cuts main involvement is that I built it with Mike.  Me and Mike run it together as a joint venture. We may give away a few clips but that is TBD.  We are working with our main sponsor about a few very special prizes that are still under wraps for now. 

Hope That helps clear that up.
 

 

Sher143

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I'm still not clear on the whole card clip situation. You used profit you gained from your business venture with Encarded to ship out the first set of Eco Card Clips, correct? If anything, I'd really appreciate if the affected parties (Encarded & 4PM Designs) to give their version of the story, but of course that is entirely up to them. Perhaps they wouldn't want to even dive into this mess.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2014, 01:25:44 PM by Sher143 »
 

 

Loop Cuts

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That is entirely up to them. 

Thanks
 

 

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Robert,

I'm gonna throw a late 90's wrestling reference at you now - you are somewhat a Vince Russo of the card community. Russo was a brilliant booker behind the scenes at WWF but flopped big time a year or two later for WCW. Why? Because he didn't have anyone above him who could veto his decisions. Nobody filtered out the bad decisions.

I've seen some good ideas come from your mind over the years and from the few conversations we did have and the advice you asked for, I sense that you've been a Vince Russo without a boss if you excuse my comparison. If I understand you correctly you now have somebody who handles the money side and is involved in decisions, so perhaps you can live up to your ambitions now. You have a long road ahead of you before you've cleared your name in this industry completely, but I wish you all the best in doing so. (Then again, that's easy for me to say since I've never been affected negatively by any of your earlier projects except for what lead to us at E pulling the plug on our relationship with you.)

Make level-headed decisions for the long run and not quick solutions and you should be fine in the end.

(Yes, I have been waiting a long time to make a 90's wrestling reference. Finally, my time has come.)
Yes, I might be the guy you remember from that thing at that place way back when.
 

 

Loop Cuts

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Thanks for your reference Marcus.  It helps in a few ways.  :)