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Favourite card stock/finish/particular deck for specific flourishes

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Jonathan

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Hey guys,
Not sure if there's already a discussion topic on this so I'm creating this one.
For you card flourishers out there, are there specific decks that you use/like/find better for specific flourishes?

I'll give you guys the example that set this topic off:
I've recently been trying the ninja flip (a one handed top card reveal) with some of my newer decks (eg Ltd Blue and a bicycle standard rider back) and was finding it hardish. By that I mean more than half the time the top card flew away instead of just flipping over XD. I cracked open an old cancelled aristocrat casino finish deck of cards I picked up in vegas in the early 2000's and tried a few things with that deck.
I found it fanned like s&%* but I could do the ninja flip so much more easily and more consistently than with the newer, smoother decks.

Anyone else have anecdotes like this?
 

Re: Favourite card stock/finish/particular deck for specific flourishes
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2013, 09:38:08 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Well, I did notice that a fully broken-in pack of Legends handles a lot smoother than when they were new.  I could do smooth thumb fans with them, no sweat.  That's about the extent of my flourishing capabilities.

Some flourishers call for a smoother finish, others call for cards that will "cling" to each other better.  Have you tried something like Aladdins with a smooth finish?
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Re: Favourite card stock/finish/particular deck for specific flourishes
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2013, 03:09:48 AM »
 

Jonathan

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Some flourishers call for a smoother finish, others call for cards that will "cling" to each other better.  Have you tried something like Aladdins with a smooth finish?

Honestly I haven't found that my "broken in" decks performed any better than when they were new (maybe I broke them too far in?)

This is going to sound stupid but... I opened a pack of smooth finish aladdins and was so confused by the new deck order they were in I didn't shuffle or do anything with them XD.
I meant to go and research what the order is/what it's for but I didn't come up with anything XD.
 

Re: Favourite card stock/finish/particular deck for specific flourishes
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2013, 05:27:44 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Some flourishers call for a smoother finish, others call for cards that will "cling" to each other better.  Have you tried something like Aladdins with a smooth finish?

Honestly I haven't found that my "broken in" decks performed any better than when they were new (maybe I broke them too far in?)

This is going to sound stupid but... I opened a pack of smooth finish aladdins and was so confused by the new deck order they were in I didn't shuffle or do anything with them XD.
I meant to go and research what the order is/what it's for but I didn't come up with anything XD.

I was specifically referring to the Legends.  They didn't perform as well out of the box as they do now - usually it's the opposite that's true of most decks.  Certain older decks like Jerry's Nuggets and Japanese Friar's Club decks shared this characteristic, or so I'm told.  Seriously, my Legends now are really, REALLY good, much better than when they were new.

The breaking-in period of any deck is really just a matter of "warming it up" a little.  Pulled out of the box, the paper is usually room temperature (cooler than body temperature in most cases) and the finish is completely stiff, never having been really flexed at all.  With some handling, shuffling, etc., the cards eventually warm up a little and the finish becomes a little more flexible, with the stiffness breaking down just enough to allow smooth bending of the cards, but not so much that they fail to spring back into their original shape.

Of course, once they go from "broken in" to "just plain broken," any deck will eventually take a hit in performance - this usually occurs when the edges are getting dirty and there's some dings along the edges that chip off a bit of the surface coat and expose the paper.  In extreme-wear cases, you'll even start seeing a little bit of separation between the paper layers.

New deck order for a very long time had been Ace through King; Spades, Hearts, Clubs and Diamonds.  In the past decade or so, it was changed to Ace through King; Spades and Diamonds; followed by King through Ace; Clubs and Hearts.  The reason I was able to discover was that it had something to do with there being a certain amount of predictability of the pattern of a new deck after it's been shuffled only a few times.  The new pattern is meant to make a minimally-shuffled deck less predictable.  According to mathematician and magician Persi Diaconis, the minimum standard to completely randomize a 52-card deck is at least seven riffle shuffles.  When I play, whether it's poker or solitaire, I usually riffle shuffle a deck between seven and ten times to insure the best chance of complete randomization, ending with a swing cut, and I sometimes toss in a few overhand, weave or faro shuffles in addition to all of that.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 05:31:02 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Favourite card stock/finish/particular deck for specific flourishes
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2013, 06:53:29 AM »
 

Jonathan

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Wow, thanks for that in depth answer Don.
Damn now I wish I had picked up the legends Dan was selling a few days ago haha XD. Oh well, some other time maybe.

As for the new deck order thing; I'm impressed by the quoting of the mathematician :|.
The Aladdin 1001 smooth finishes I have come in some completely weird order - it's not ace through king or king through ace. From what I can tell it's SOME kind of stack and I assume it's meant for a particular magic trick I just don't know what that trick is.
The Aladdins I'm referring to are the ones from The Blue Crown, I'm not sure if you were referring to a different set of aladdins when you were talking about the handling earlier.
 

Re: Favourite card stock/finish/particular deck for specific flourishes
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2013, 09:52:11 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Wow, thanks for that in depth answer Don.
Damn now I wish I had picked up the legends Dan was selling a few days ago haha XD. Oh well, some other time maybe.

As for the new deck order thing; I'm impressed by the quoting of the mathematician :|.
The Aladdin 1001 smooth finishes I have come in some completely weird order - it's not ace through king or king through ace. From what I can tell it's SOME kind of stack and I assume it's meant for a particular magic trick I just don't know what that trick is.
The Aladdins I'm referring to are the ones from The Blue Crown, I'm not sure if you were referring to a different set of aladdins when you were talking about the handling earlier.

OK, that's probably "stack order", with the Tamariz/"Mnemonica" stack being the most common these days.  David Blaine does that often, making at least one deck color of each of his new designs in Tamariz stack order.  Juan Tamariz published a somewhat expensive book called "Mnemonica" and it's all about how to use that stack order to your advantage, and I'm told it's quite excellent work.  Dan and Dave are selling the book for $65.
http://shop.dananddave.com/mnemonica.html
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