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Off Topic Chat => The Conversation Parlor => Topic started by: Joshua Robinson on November 20, 2011, 04:51:33 AM

Title: MY LIFE IS OVER!!!
Post by: Joshua Robinson on November 20, 2011, 04:51:33 AM
 :(, i sliced my thumb open washing a huge kitchen knife, now i can't play with my cards!!! my life is over (until it heals) but it is pretty deep so I'm so so sad!!  :-[ if only i knew other tricks like coin tricks that i don't really need my thumb for, with vanishing coins and stuff. Can anyone send me some simple vanishing and re-appearing coin tricks with tutorials?

 ;)many thanks!!! i need something magical to do while my thumb is healing!!! PLEASE HELP!!!! :-[
Title: Re: MY LIFE IS OVER!!!
Post by: Don Boyer on November 20, 2011, 05:20:11 AM
First of all, I'm sorry about your injury and I wish you a swift recovery.

While I'm no expert, some coin tricks might be a little tricky with just one hand.  Cards aren't completely out of your reach, so to speak, while your thumb heals.

Have you tried some of the tricks that require no sleight of hand at all?  There's a few videos that cover the topic (like Magic Makers' "Killer Tricks with No Sleight of Hand"), as well as Giobbi's Card College Light/-er/-est series of books.  Many tricks using a stripper deck might also be within your capacity to perform, as well as tricks with marked cards.  If you can find one, get a Gambler's Deck - developed in part by Boris Wild, it's a stripped, marked and stacked deck and (while they last) still available with Bicycle Rider Backs.  (And no, they're not anything like his Wild Deck.  The marks are easy to read when you know where to look.)  You can have all kinds of fun with that one and it comes with an instruction booklet.  If you just want straight-up marked cards, my favorites are the Ultimate Marked Deck (available in Rider Back blue or red, again while they last) and the Phoenix Cards marked deck (which also has a hidden one-way pattern).

Recovery-wise, I suggest exercising the fingers on that hand to the best of your ability in order to retain the strength you've built up by shuffling and performing other stunts.  Ice will help with swelling.
Title: Re: MY LIFE IS OVER!!!
Post by: Kanped on November 20, 2011, 06:59:36 AM
I play a lot of bass guitar and occasionally, I'll slice my finger open (well, usually a burst blister) before a gig.


There's an easy solution; super-glue.  Yeah, that stuff bonds skin better than anything else.  That's actually what it was invented for (although the recipe has changed a bit since then); the military created it to quickly treat wounded soldiers.  It works fast and forms a shell over where the cut and binds it together.  Seriously, it works perfectly.
Title: Re: MY LIFE IS OVER!!!
Post by: Joshua Robinson on November 20, 2011, 02:45:29 PM
i never knew super glue was made for that reason!!!!! i shall try it, will i be able to play with my cards still?\

and thank you good@sabacc
Title: Re: MY LIFE IS OVER!!!
Post by: sinsandman on November 20, 2011, 06:37:22 PM
You are absolutely correct about super glue. Many military hospitals still use it too. My daughter busted her head open a while back and they used super glue at the hospital
Title: Re: MY LIFE IS OVER!!!
Post by: Atheosile on November 22, 2011, 04:00:54 AM
Sorry for your accident bro, it has happened to me and it does indeed suck, lol.  I am not sure if you practice/perform flourishes but if so, I suggest taking this as an opportunity to work on/create material not using your thumb ;) Hope your recovery is quick! Also, there may be lotions in general for scar healing but I find cocoa butter works  wonders on the appearance of scars ;) Keep us posted of your situation bro!
Title: Re: MY LIFE IS OVER!!!
Post by: Don Boyer on November 22, 2011, 05:23:50 PM
There's a superglue designed just for skin called New-Skin, and I think Walmart carries it.  Whatever you do, don't use ordinary superglue.  The cyanoacrylate formula for those is different; it's not medical-grade and can be harmful in a wound.  Check newskinproducts.com for more info.
Title: Re: MY LIFE IS OVER!!!
Post by: Kanped on November 22, 2011, 08:18:41 PM
There's a superglue designed just for skin called New-Skin, and I think Walmart carries it.  Whatever you do, don't use ordinary superglue.  The cyanoacrylate formula for those is different; it's not medical-grade and can be harmful in a wound.  Check newskinproducts.com for more info.

I feel a little awkward about doing this but I really believe that you've been taken in by some buzz words and phoney science.   Cyanoacrylate is completely safe for use on wounds; very very ocassionally, someone is allergic to it and it causes a rash and that's super rare.  Proper clinical testing in the UK and elsewhere will confirm this.  If it were the case that regular super glue was no good for people, newskinproducts.com would be out of business, so it's good for them to perpetuate the myth.  In reality,  cyanoacrylate has been injected directly into people's blood streams (not accidentally picked up via an infected wound) with very positive results for certain ailments and no side effects ( http://casereports.bmj.com/content/2011/bcr.02.2011.3913.abstract?sid=5ef5ca3f-069f-48ab-9eca-c5556fb2e447 and others). 

Do your own research, don't take either of our words for it, please.  And again, apologies to good@sabacc; you seem like a really good guy who knows what he's talking about but I have to disagree with you on this issue because the research tells a different story.
Title: Re: MY LIFE IS OVER!!!
Post by: Don Boyer on November 23, 2011, 12:26:58 AM
I feel a little awkward about doing this but I really believe that you've been taken in by some buzz words and phoney science.   Cyanoacrylate is completely safe for use on wounds; very very ocassionally, someone is allergic to it and it causes a rash and that's super rare.  Proper clinical testing in the UK and elsewhere will confirm this.  If it were the case that regular super glue was no good for people, newskinproducts.com would be out of business, so it's good for them to perpetuate the myth.  In reality,  cyanoacrylate has been injected directly into people's blood streams (not accidentally picked up via an infected wound) with very positive results for certain ailments and no side effects ( http://casereports.bmj.com/content/2011/bcr.02.2011.3913.abstract?sid=5ef5ca3f-069f-48ab-9eca-c5556fb2e447 (http://casereports.bmj.com/content/2011/bcr.02.2011.3913.abstract?sid=5ef5ca3f-069f-48ab-9eca-c5556fb2e447) and others). 

Do your own research, don't take either of our words for it, please.  And again, apologies to good@sabacc; you seem like a really good guy who knows what he's talking about but I have to disagree with you on this issue because the research tells a different story.

It's OK - I don't mind being correct.  I prefer to call it "discovering the truth".  If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.

I took a quick peek at the article you quoted - it mentioned a particular procedure performed using "cyanoacrylate" but not going into details as to which type or brand.  The term "cyanoacrylate" (or "CA") covers a large number of different chemical compounds.

Here's where I got my info from: Wikipedia article on "Cyanoacrylate" in the "Safety Issues" section, copied below.  It states the various safety issues - there's a few more than simple skin irritation.  The whole "This section does not cite..." part may not inspire confidence, but it's remained there unchallenged since July.  (I see that on a lot of reliably informative articles; I think it was just that the poster was too lazy/busy to cite them.)  If you read the whole article, you'll see that ethyl CAs (the OTC "superglues" used for bonding objects) are not what's used in medicine, but 2-octyl CAs are, and under multiple brand names, for both medical and veterinary purposes.  The only easily obtainable OTC 2-octyl CA would be New-Skin; others would have to be obtained from a medical supply shop either in person or online.  Some marathon runners use New-Skin on their feet where they know they're prone to getting blisters in order to prevent getting them while running in an event; think of it like the calluses that a guitarist's fingers develop, except in liquid and spray form.  A 2-octyl CA like New-Skin is thought of as better than normal adhesive bandages because the application is waterproof and bonds stronger while remaining flexible.

Funny thing - read the entire article and you'll see that while the first application of CAs was in medicine, they were developed when Eastman Kodak was trying to create a plastic see-through gun sight!
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Toxicity
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/99/Question_book-new.svg/50px-Question_book-new.svg.png) This section does not cite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources) any references or sources (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability). Please help improve this section by adding citations to reliable sources (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Identifying_reliable_sources). Unsourced material may be challenged (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Citation_needed) and removed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability#Burden_of_evidence). (July 2011)
The fumes from CA are a vaporized form of the cyanoacrylate monomer that irritate sensitive membranes in the eyes, nose and throat. They are immediately polymerized by the moisture in the membranes and become inert. These risks can be minimized by using CA in well ventilated areas. About 5% of the population can become sensitized to CA fumes after repeated exposure, resulting in flu-like symptoms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flu-like_symptoms).[15] It may also act as a skin irritant and may cause an allergic skin reaction. The ACGIH (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Conference_of_Governmental_Industrial_Hygienists) assign a Threshold Limit Value (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threshold_Limit_Value) exposure limit of 200 parts per billion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_per_billion). On rare occasions, inhalation may trigger asthma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asthma). There is no singular measurement of toxicity for all cyanoacrylate adhesives as there is a wide variety of adhesives that contain various cyanoacrylate formulations.
The United States National Toxicology Program and the United Kingdom Health and Safety Executive have concluded that the use of ethyl cyanoacrylate is safe and that additional study is unnecessary.[16] 2-octyl cyanoacrylate degrades much more slowly due to its longer organic backbone which slows the degradation of the adhesive enough to remain below the threshold of tissue toxicity. Due to the toxicity issues of ethyl cyanoacrylate, the use of 2-octyl cyanoacrylate for sutures is preferred.
 [ (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cyanoacrylate&action=edit&section=6)]

Reaction with cotton
Applying cyanoacrylate to materials made of cotton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotton) or wool (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wool) (such as cotton swabs, cotton balls, and certain yarns or fabrics) results in a powerful, rapid exothermic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exothermic) reaction. The heat released may cause minor burns, and if enough cyanoacrylate is used, the reaction is capable of igniting the cotton product, as well as releasing irritating vapor in the form of white smoke.[17]
Material Safety Data Sheets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Material_Safety_Data_Sheet) for cyanoacrylate instruct users not to wear cotton or wool clothing, especially cotton gloves, when applying or handling cyanoacrylates.[1
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I suppose if you were evil or desperate enough, you could fling some ethyl CA at a pursuer - a majority of the garments made these days have some amount of cotton or wool in it.  His or her clothes burst into flames while creating an irritating vapor allowing you an easier escape.  Alternately, you could slather it on something like a dish cloth or a cotton rag and toss that - it would bond to their clothes or skin rapidly enough, I think, though it's something that one should test, if they had the inclination to do so...  (Sounds like a cool plot device in a thriller novel for escaping capture!)
Title: Re: MY LIFE IS OVER!!!
Post by: Kanped on November 23, 2011, 03:07:01 AM
I did read the wiki article and took away 2 things from it;

1. They are immediately polymerized by the moisture in the membranes and become inert

So even if you're unlucky enough to be allergic and dim enough to be using large quantities in unventilated areas, the toxicity is nullified by your own body anyway.  It's an irritant but it's not dangerous.

2. The United States National Toxicology Program and the United Kingdom Health and Safety Executive have concluded that the use of ethyl cyanoacrylate is safe and that additional study is unnecessary.

OK, it's not preferable but it's fine.  Especially on your fingertips; I mean, I do it all the time and it has never even been itchy.

I have to ask; if you go and buy some over-the-counter super glue and pour it onto a cotton rag, do you really expect that to burst into flames?  Really?
Title: Re: MY LIFE IS OVER!!!
Post by: Joshua Robinson on November 23, 2011, 03:15:52 AM
reading all of this is interesting, but all in all im going well, ive started slowly picking up my cards again and testing if its getting better it is, the cards just catch in the slit in my thumb,and ruins some tricks, but other than that its all perfect again!!
Title: Re: MY LIFE IS OVER!!!
Post by: Don Boyer on November 23, 2011, 03:32:01 AM
I did read the wiki article and took away 2 things from it;

1. They are immediately polymerized by the moisture in the membranes and become inert

So even if you're unlucky enough to be allergic and dim enough to be using large quantities in unventilated areas, the toxicity is nullified by your own body anyway.  It's an irritant but it's not dangerous.

2. The United States National Toxicology Program and the United Kingdom Health and Safety Executive have concluded that the use of ethyl cyanoacrylate is safe and that additional study is unnecessary.

OK, it's not preferable but it's fine.  Especially on your fingertips; I mean, I do it all the time and it has never even been itchy.

I have to ask; if you go and buy some over-the-counter super glue and pour it onto a cotton rag, do you really expect that to burst into flames?  Really?
If what they say is true, than yes, I do.  The article mentioned that it was a rapid heat generation from contact between ethyl CA and cotton/wool.  Sure, it could be some wiseguy's attempt at creating an urban myth, but the article didn't appear to have undergone recent changes - someone would have corrected it if it was false.  Furthermore the safety testing was more likely for the handling and application of ethyl CA according to directions provided by the manufacturer.  The stuff isn't utterly deadly, but it has some negative side effects and isn't ideal for sealing flesh wounds.

This article has a boatload of scientific info about ethyl and methyl 2-cyanoacrylate.  Early in the page it mentions some of the hazards of the substance.  The data provided does coincide with the data in the Wikipedia article, though I didn't catch any mention of the flammability of ethyl CA.

http://www.osha.gov/dts/sltc/methods/organic/org055/org055.html (http://www.osha.gov/dts/sltc/methods/organic/org055/org055.html)

This site attests to its flammability and fumes, but doesn't say anything about heat generated from contact with cotton or wool.

http://woodworkersjournal.com/woodworking_blog/index.php/cyanoacrylate-everything-you-need-to-know/ (http://woodworkersjournal.com/woodworking_blog/index.php/cyanoacrylate-everything-you-need-to-know/)

So, perhaps the flammability is true, or isn't.  Testing it would be a fun way to find out!

reading all of this is interesting, but all in all im going well, ive started slowly picking up my cards again and testing if its getting better it is, the cards just catch in the slit in my thumb,and ruins some tricks, but other than that its all perfect again!!

That's great to hear.  Use regular applications of triple antibiotic to decrease the healing time.  Meanwhile, keep your hands in practice with some shuffling and solitaire.
Title: Re: MY LIFE IS OVER!!!
Post by: MrLukeCarroll on November 23, 2011, 06:41:40 PM
Look at the work of Rene Lavand a card magician who has no use of one of his hands :)
Title: Re: MY LIFE IS OVER!!!
Post by: John B. on November 28, 2011, 07:52:27 PM
ok 2 things one i burned my thumb and since i could not go on here i just kept going on with cards, was tough but fun, also yea the doc wanted to charge my teacher a lot to fix her husband head and instead she just went and used super glue.
Title: Re: MY LIFE IS OVER!!!
Post by: Don Boyer on November 29, 2011, 01:29:21 AM
ok 2 things one i burned my thumb and since i could not go on here i just kept going on with cards, was tough but fun, also yea the doc wanted to charge my teacher a lot to fix her husband head and instead she just went and used super glue.

Let's hope she doesn't teach biology!  ;)
Title: Re: MY LIFE IS OVER!!!
Post by: John B. on November 29, 2011, 10:35:59 AM
she taught chemistry, physics, and general science.