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Medieval Inspired Deck

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Medieval Inspired Deck
« on: May 27, 2015, 01:52:54 PM »
 

variantventures

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This is the Queen of a deck intended to be sold to members of the Society for Creative Anachronism, a medieval-themed hobby group.  The background to this deck is based on 14th-15th Century illuminated manuscripts.  The suits are the coats of arms of the various regional groups (for the court cards) and the badges of the regional groups (for the pips).  There are 19 kingdoms worldwide and customers can choose any 4 to build a 'custom' deck.

The back is very simple as a nod to the early playing card backs which were, until the 16th Century, plain or very simple indeed.
 

Re: Medieval Inspired Deck
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2015, 01:16:33 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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It looks a bit sad without actual court characters, though it does make them more anachronistic, albeit less attractive...
« Last Edit: May 28, 2015, 01:17:25 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Medieval Inspired Deck
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2015, 05:09:52 AM »
 

Levent Suberk

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Very good design. Gold printing will be nice. Simple card back design looks good, perhaps it will be nicer with a frame or simply laurels can be printed in gold. Keep up good work.
 

Re: Medieval Inspired Deck
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2015, 12:15:16 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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This is the Queen of a deck intended to be sold to members of the Society for Creative Anachronism, a medieval-themed hobby group.  The background to this deck is based on 14th-15th Century illuminated manuscripts.  The suits are the coats of arms of the various regional groups (for the court cards) and the badges of the regional groups (for the pips).  There are 19 kingdoms worldwide and customers can choose any 4 to build a 'custom' deck.

I have a thought regarding those coats of arms.  Consider this:

Take a standard set of twelve courts.  Remove the large "in-image" pip, replacing it with ONE coat of arms on EACH side of the court.  Customize the characters and use the old French-style "dividing line" to separate the two halves of the card.

This allows for having actual court characters customized to the desires of each group, with two appearing on each card.  Twelve courts with two images each is 24 images.  19 kingdoms, one logo for the group as a whole and four standard suit pips equals 24 images as well...  A single deck that could contain the entire group's imagery, instead of your more complex (and more costly) mix-and-match solution, AND you'd have real court characters on the court cards.

It's something to consider.
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Re: Medieval Inspired Deck
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2015, 07:16:36 PM »
 

Justin O.

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Love the court. Feel like it is a nice departure from depictions of court characters that we see run into the ground with people trying to make them different, and also really captures a sense of period well. The back is lazy and lacking in comparison, it has non of the appeal of the court card, to the extent of being both boring and garish simultaneously.

Excited to see where this goes
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Re: Medieval Inspired Deck
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2015, 10:34:42 AM »
 

variantventures

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Thanks for the feedback, guys.

Don, I don't think the single deck option works for a number of reasons that are, to someone outside the group, largely silly and nonsensical.  There's a lot more weight behind your argument for putting court figures on the cards and I've experimented with that and what I found was that the cards became very difficult to read because of the size changes in the pips and the extra complexity the court figures add to what is already a very busy background.  I have two very different modified versions of this deck in mind that include court figures (the deck becomes almost entirely court figures, in fact) but I'm waiting until this summer when a much more talented artist will be working with me.  I hope.

Justin, I agree the back is very plain.  I've gone back and forth on that issue almost as much as I've gone back and forth on the court figures.  The early playing cards had plain backs or painted, monotone backs (such as the crimson backs on the Ambras Hunting Deck).  I was trying to strike a median between a modern deck and a medieval deck with the monotone back augmented by the laurel wreathes (the symbol of the organization as a whole).  I'll take another look at it.
 

Re: Medieval Inspired Deck
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2015, 01:15:35 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Thanks for the feedback, guys.

Don, I don't think the single deck option works for a number of reasons that are, to someone outside the group, largely silly and nonsensical.  There's a lot more weight behind your argument for putting court figures on the cards and I've experimented with that and what I found was that the cards became very difficult to read because of the size changes in the pips and the extra complexity the court figures add to what is already a very busy background.  I have two very different modified versions of this deck in mind that include court figures (the deck becomes almost entirely court figures, in fact) but I'm waiting until this summer when a much more talented artist will be working with me.  I hope.

Justin, I agree the back is very plain.  I've gone back and forth on that issue almost as much as I've gone back and forth on the court figures.  The early playing cards had plain backs or painted, monotone backs (such as the crimson backs on the Ambras Hunting Deck).  I was trying to strike a median between a modern deck and a medieval deck with the monotone back augmented by the laurel wreathes (the symbol of the organization as a whole).  I'll take another look at it.

As far as the back goes, plain works.  There's nothing wrong with it and you're correct in that early decks were very plain.  There's still a trend towards a plain back today, if the recent sell-out of the white NOC deck is any indication.  Countless new decks have come out with backs plainer than this and did very well - plus, this is a deck targeted to a specific audience, to whom this plain back bears great significance.

There's ways to do courts that don't dominate the entire card.  Many new deck have small, more "dainty" courts with a lot more negative space - a good recent example would be the Fatale deck on Kickstarter, and an older example would be Bicycle Amazing Adventures, a successful steampunk-themed Kickstarter deck of two years ago.  The clean design can be very attractive, and would leave ample room on the card face for your coats of arms, be they each unique as I suggested or suited by kingdom as you proposed.

The simplest way to sell this, on the surface, would be to use the coats of arms themselves as your suits (as you're doing) and sell the suits as individually-packaged sets, in terms of allowing people the flexibility of assembling their own deck out of that.  Unfortunately, the logistics involved in tracking NINETEEN suits of cards are daunting on a good day.  Even if you sold the cards as complete 52-card decks with mix-and-match suits, you're still looking at a minimum of FIVE different, unique decks (the twentieth suit could be either left blank to represent the unknown or you could use the SCA's own standard/logo on a coat of arms).  While not as difficult, it's still challenging, and presents the problem of cost effectiveness to the purchaser.  Pretend I'm SCA member "Joe Renfaire" and I want to make a deck - if one deck contains all the suits I'm looking for, lucky me, but if I'm looking for four suits that end up spread across four different decks, I'm going to be shelling out a lot of money and buying a lot of extra cards I don't want.  Picking and choosing individually-packaged suits would work well for me, but creates a nightmare for the creator who has to track nineteen different suit designs and doesn't want to end up holding too many extra sets which would lie unsold for months.

And none of this covers the costs and minimum print runs of five wholly-different decks which only share a common back design - and before even considering any bells and whistles such as metallic inks, as it appears your Queen in the first post has metallic paint in some areas.  Regardless of which method is chosen, you're looking at a print job that's equivalent to making five decks, and the costs will be high as each individual deck won't be made in large-enough amounts to allow for good bulk pricing.  Honestly, you're looking at a very challenging project, and the individual decks, no matter how they end up being created, will be very expensive.  Have you priced out the work yet with any potential printers?  That right there should be your next step before creating any more new designs - it could potentially put you in a position where you have to alter your deck to accommodate economic realities.

There is a possible alternative.  This, however, would only work if the regional groups had certain groups/factions/alliances that would never meet in "combat."  You could make the deck using the four standard suits, then for the court cards, create courts for five groups that are allied as I described above and make them in a single, common suit, doing this for all the regional groups.  One would then just mix and match only the court cards, not the entire suit, as long as they didn't mind not having their allies in an opposed suit.  A typical example might be as follows:

19 regional groups
Groups 1-5 are "allied" with each other, as are 6-10, 11-15 and 16-19.
Make Ace through Ten in standard suits.
Groups 1-5 are all "spades" - you have five sets of three court cards each, one for each group in the "alliance," from which you can assemble the court cards for your deck.
Groups 6-10 are all "hearts," 11-15 are "clubs" and 16-19 are "diamonds," each organized as described above, with the diamonds only having four regional groups sharing a suit/alliance.

Done in this manner, you would create a total of 99 cards - enough to fit comfortably on two deck sheets, thus being the equivalent of making only two decks instead of five.  The cost of production would drop significantly as every single deck will have all the cards in it, allowing you to take advantage of bulk pricing, and people using the decks could mix and match the courts in any manner they saw fit by purchasing just one "double-sized" deck, leaving you without all the logistic headaches you're in for if you use your present concept.  Joe Renfaire gets the deck of his dreams without having to mortgage the house in the process.  And most importantly, you're not left holding the bag for a bunch of extra suits groups that didn't and won't sell.  You might even be able to afford fun things like metallic inks on the cards, a custom deck seal, embossed tuck boxes, etc., depending on how popular the cards end up being - all of those additional features can be structured as stretch goals so the costs are guaranteed to be covered.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2015, 01:20:18 PM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Medieval Inspired Deck
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2015, 10:24:07 AM »
 

variantventures

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Here are some roughs for alternate backs that I considered.

Ultimately the decision to go with the simpler back was made because, while I'm deviating from medieval/renaissance design norms in so many ways, I'm still trying to stay close to those norms.  Sometimes less really is more.


Alt 1


Alt 2


Alt 3


Alt 4 - This would actually have all 20 different shield designs (without the super thick border on the shields).


Alt 5


Alt 6

I considered doing a plain back (just a parchment color) or a simple monotone (in the authentic ochre-yellow tone) because both of those options would be truer to the actual card examples from that time period, but chose to add the laurel wreaths to give the backs some branding and just a little visual activity.
 

Re: Medieval Inspired Deck
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2015, 07:27:00 PM »
 

Levent Suberk

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Second one is looking best.
 

Re: Medieval Inspired Deck
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2015, 07:37:54 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Alt 1 is my preference.  It has the elements of a large-detail back design and a small-detail back design - nice contrast.
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Re: Medieval Inspired Deck
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2015, 05:22:28 PM »
 

Justin O.

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I am liking the first one as well, ye olde stylish
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