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Fraud Alert Topic - Post Ripoffs and Counterfeits Here

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Fraud Alert Topic - Post Ripoffs and Counterfeits Here
« on: December 24, 2013, 01:41:24 AM »
 

shineleon

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Hi guys, my name is Hu Shan Liang (Derek Hu), i'm from China. I posted a thread on unitedcardits.com back on Dec 13th trying to look for a set of David Blaine split spades decks in bee box. Same thread has been posted here. A day later, a man (who actually doesn’t deserve to be called a man) who claimed himself as Alim Mohammed coming from Birmingham, UK came emailing me asking for a trade/barter. Then we started negotiating what we both want and how and when the barter can be done. We exchanged details including names, cellphone no.s address and pics of the decks we were going to send to each other. After couple of rounds of emails, we reached an agreement that each party ships the package and emails the other the tracking no and pics of the package. Then on 17th, as promised, I shipped 4 decks of cage gardens including 2 whites and 2 blacks via DHL and emailed him all information. In return, he was going to ship 1 red rounders, 2 magic con 2011, 1 signed DD bee deck and 1 red artifice. But he never showed up since 19th after he sent me an email saying he would ship during lunch break. I checked with DHL that the package has been signed by him yesterday. I tried call him several times but he hung up quick. I’ve already reported a fraud to the UK police and I’m required to provide more information and evidence to assist the investigation.

guys, pls be very careful doing business with strangers cuz we don't know who's the big bad wolf!

Hey, Alim, if you’re looking and listening, I hope you sleep well. Cuz I’m not going to let you get away with this!

His email: mo_alim90@hotmail.com
Mine: hushanliang@gmail.com

PS, I shipped the package via an agent of DHL to save cost, it was transferred to DHL in HK and left for UK. here're the screenshots.
 

Re: [CAUTION REQUIRED]Fraudster in Birmingham UK
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2013, 02:29:32 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Due to the nature of your post, I will allow your topic to remain here.

For the future, however, be advised that members must meet certain minimum standards before posting on the STISO board:

1) read the rules,
2) be a member for seven days
3) have a post count number of at least 25 (posts to LOLAQ, Support and spam posts don't count)
4) have a reputation score of at least 1.

For replies to this post, contact the poster via PM please.  If you wish to continue the topic, please start a topic in the LOLAQ.  When your minimums have been met, remind me and I'll move the topic here, where it belongs in the long run.

Yes, this ruling sounds odd.  But it's the first time I've run into this kind of situation so I'm working off the cuff.  I'll consult with the other staffers and come up with a better solution than this ASAP.

EDIT: solution found.  We have a new board for posting about frauds, as a daughter board of the STISO.  There are NO MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS to post there, and posts don't count toward your post total.  I'm moving this topic there to be the inaugural topic.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2013, 02:53:22 AM by Don Boyer »
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Fraud Alert Topic - Post Ripoffs and Counterfeits Here
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2013, 03:01:51 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Welcome to the new Fraud Alert Topic.  Found a retailer selling a fake product?  An eBay seller who doesn't deliver?  Someone who says they're sending you one thing, but sends something different and won't refund you or send the right stuff?  This is the place to post about it.

The rules are simple:
1) Be truthful.
2) Be as objective and neutral as you can when describing events.
3) Obey any applicable laws regarding libel or defamation of character.  Avoid derogatory remarks about any person and remain focused on the facts that occurred.
4) Only post topics about deals gone bad if it resulted in you personally suffering a loss of money or merchandise.  Don't make topics about someone else's deal - first-hand accounts only.
5) Screen captures of package tracking results are recommended when they indicate delivery of goods to the defrauding party.  Also useful would be PayPal "payment sent" screens, redacted as needed to keep your personal information private.
6) Counterfeit decks certainly belong here - but be sure they are indeed counterfeit or fraudulent in some manner.  A new Bicycle deck with a 100-year-old tax stamp would work, as would a bogus copy of a gaff deck or a Jerry's Nugget - but be ready to provide visual proof of the fraud.
7) UPLOAD YOUR IMAGES AND TAKE SCREEN GRABS OF WEB PAGES in addition to posting links.  If you just post a link to a sales page, that page could disappear tomorrow and now you have nothing.

Contact me via PM if you have suggestions or ideas regarding this topic.

The management of this board is in no way responsible for the posts placed here.  We do not determine the truthfulness or faslehood of any statements made within.  When trading, do your own due diligence, and if a trade or sale doesn't feel right in any way, don't do it, period.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2014, 10:06:33 AM by Don Boyer »
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[eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2013, 01:10:55 PM »
 

FrenchFryNecromancer

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I would advise to avoid buying from this ebay seller (rareangpow) from Malaysia.
I tried reporting him on eBay about a year ago but eBay continues to allow him to sell....... which is a shame.

I have purchased from him in the past and received 1 brick of UltraGaff and 1 brick of the Ultimate Marked Deck.
They both turned out to be counterfeit.
I believe his organization looks for cards that sell well in the United States, and then they try to print up a bunch of copies and sell them on eBay to essentially print their own money.

I could tell these decks were cheap knockoffs upon further inspection because of poor printing quality when compared with the original deck (UltraGaff).  Also they just felt different.  The tuck box felt extremely flimsy.  The cards felt weird and sand-papery.  Very close, but something was clearly wrong.

I had posted this information a while back on UnitedCardists before it switched from UnitedCardists.net to UnitedCardists.com.  So my post is gone now.  I had put up a lot of detailed photos comparing the counterfeit cards with the originals.  (In the case of the UltraGaff deck, which I have readily available for comparison).

After noticing this I looked at what else he was selling......
This Rareangpow seller always seems to have real high quantities of extremely rare decks
Just look at his items for sale.  It's ridiculous.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/rareangpow/m.html?item=121230384979&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c39e4df53&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

Scarlet Madison Rounders - "more than 10 available".
Blue Madison Rounders - 10 available.
Red Artifice Decks - 10 available.
Black Artifice Decks - "more than 10 available".   ---  OH REALLY?  I thought these were limited to 3 a person?
Sultan Treasure - 10 available.

Kinda strange.  Seems like he always has at least "10 available" of each of these....  suspicious?   Warning signs going off?
Sad thing is these counterfeit decks are being bought by unsuspecting buyers and have probably already permeated the market by now.

I just wanted to spread the word.  I seriously do not recommend buying from this guy.
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2013, 01:56:23 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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We have a new daughterboard for these kinds of fraud alerts.  I'm moving your post there.
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2013, 06:15:25 PM »
 

Jonathan

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I've seen his listings on eBay; some of them are asking for rather high amounts of money too.
To think they're fake is sad.
Don, do you know if there are many realistic fakes out there? I thought that USPCC quality and designs were pretty hard to counterfeit. I've bought cards from sellers in singapore and hong kong and wasn't too worried about them being fakes at the time because I thought noone could dupe USPCC's stuff.
 

Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2013, 12:18:24 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I've seen his listings on eBay; some of them are asking for rather high amounts of money too.
To think they're fake is sad.
Don, do you know if there are many realistic fakes out there? I thought that USPCC quality and designs were pretty hard to counterfeit. I've bought cards from sellers in singapore and hong kong and wasn't too worried about them being fakes at the time because I thought noone could dupe USPCC's stuff.

Before I even started posting here, I was assisting Bill Schildman in tracking down retailers in my area selling Chinese-made Bee forgeries.  Alex has also mentioned before that the printers making fake Jerry's Nuggets have actually improved the process - they're not the real thing by far, but they're not cheapa$$ pieces of cardboard, either.

Bill Kalush showed me an authentic Bee deck made for the Chinese market.  The cellophane wrapper is etched with a repeating, holographic pattern of the name and the logo of the deck.  They do that as a protective measure against counterfeiting, since copying holograms isn't an easy process in the least, though one can make something appear to be holographic that actually isn't (I've seen this done on forged credit cards).

The short answer is yes, it's relatively simple to present something that looks like a USPC product, and there are factories doing just that.
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2013, 01:31:12 AM »
 

phantom1412

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I heard that there are fake ultragaffs out there. Those ultragaffs he is selling might be fake. But I don't think the other decks are fake too. Just my opinion anyway.
 

Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2013, 01:49:03 AM »
 

FrenchFryNecromancer

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It just seems like a lot of signs pointing towards fraud.  One sign is he sold me counterfeit ultra gaffs.  The other sign is the sheer quantity of ultra rare decks he is selling.  How do you explain "more than 10" quantity of black artifice decks?  Those are limited to 3 or 4 decks per member of the black club.  I find it highly unlikely that he bought that many of them off other people only to resell them at about the going rate.  Plus 10 sultan treasury decks?  A lot of these are limited to being able to get only one for some promotion.  It seems ridiculous that he would have that many.

At one point I saw him selling a whole brick of if an octopus could palm decks (dan and Dave).... And the only way to get one of those is to buy their $75 book and get the deck included.  So he spent $75 x 12 decks to purchase all those?  Highly unlikely.

It seems more likely he is printing counterfeits and selling them as if they were the real thing.
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2013, 02:14:09 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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It seems more likely he is printing counterfeits and selling them as if they were the real thing.

...or (if I was to play "Devil's Advocate") perhaps he's a not-so-knowledgeable retailer buying counterfeits because he doesn't know any better, thinks they're real and was offered a great deal.  Either way, though, it's not a good sign.

Rick Harrison, partner/owner of the Gold & Silver Pawn Shop in Las Vegas, NV and star of the History Channel TV series "Pawn Stars", is fond of saying that he will never sell fakes of anything in his shop.  The reason for this is that it only takes one fake item being discovered to destroy the shop's reputation as a seller of authentic antiques and collectible merchandise - suddenly every single item he's sold would get called into question, because if he did it once, how can one know whether he didn't do it many more times?  He won't even accept fakes as "reproduction" or "replica" items, considering the risk to be too high.  The one time I recall seeing him accept something that wasn't genuine was a famous person's autograph - and that's because the forger who created it is a known historical figure in his own right, so in that case, it's not simply a fake celebrity's autograph, but a forgery created by a master of forgery, making that the reason it's both historical and authentic in a different sense - it's a genuine creation of the forger.

There's a reason why his business is a multimillion dollar operation - and that's a large part of it.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 02:15:16 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2013, 02:59:26 AM »
 

Jonathan

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The short answer is yes, it's relatively simple to present something that looks like a USPC product, and there are factories doing just that.

Thanks Don.
Mmm I remember reading about bee forgeries and them being listed as distributed by a particular company I forget the name now.
What I was meaning is if you opened a box of chinese made forgeries, would they actually pass for USPCC's cards finish and handling wise, not just if you saw a fake and a real one on the shelf.
I was recently in Hong Kong and someone told me about the chinese made jerry's nuggets for sale - their shop owner was upfront and said they're chinese made replicas so I bought one anyway and opened it - it actually handles pretty well but I've never handled real nuggets so I can't compare.
 

Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2013, 05:50:52 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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The short answer is yes, it's relatively simple to present something that looks like a USPC product, and there are factories doing just that.

Thanks Don.
Mmm I remember reading about bee forgeries and them being listed as distributed by a particular company I forget the name now.
What I was meaning is if you opened a box of chinese made forgeries, would they actually pass for USPCC's cards finish and handling wise, not just if you saw a fake and a real one on the shelf.
I was recently in Hong Kong and someone told me about the chinese made jerry's nuggets for sale - their shop owner was upfront and said they're chinese made replicas so I bought one anyway and opened it - it actually handles pretty well but I've never handled real nuggets so I can't compare.

Most Bee forgeries are made cheaply - if they were going to replicate the quality that closely, why bother copying Bees when you could make your own brand?  They forge Bees cheaply because they undercut the price of the real thing, thus making them more attractive to customers - at least until they open the box.

For Jerry's Nuggets, people have gotten better at spotting the fakes so they had to raise the quality.  It's worth it to spend a little extra for a higher-quality forgery because of the prices the decks get in the open market.  I wouldn't be surprised if they grabbed information off of sites like this one to find more detailed information about what the genuine article looks like, right down to the way you can tell a genuine box from a fake - thus making their fakes more like the real thing to an unsuspecting customer who also knows this information.  As I see it, the only way to be certain you get the real thing is through a reliable source, such as Lee Asher, the Blue Crown or Dan and Dave.

The company sticker you remember seeing is "Connell Bros." - they were actually importing Bee decks perhaps a decade or so ago through Hong Kong, I believe, but not any longer.  Forgers still use the stickers now and then.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 05:53:26 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2013, 12:26:18 PM »
 

Jonathan

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The company sticker you remember seeing is "Connell Bros." - they were actually importing Bee decks perhaps a decade or so ago through Hong Kong, I believe, but not any longer.  Forgers still use the stickers now and then.

Yeah you're right that was them! Your breadth of knowledge never ceases to amaze.
Yeah I looked up bee forgeries because in my wanderings through Hong Kong I found bee decks for 1 USD in a random market stall (the stall was selling random goods like electronics and battteries and stuff) I bought a red and a blue one and opened em up to compare to some other bees I had. The ones I found in the market had the Connell Bros sticker on them but the cards inside handled just like real bees and the AoS and tuck box all seemed to be either legit or really, really good copies haha. I still don't know if they're real or not haha.
 

Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2013, 02:43:04 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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The company sticker you remember seeing is "Connell Bros." - they were actually importing Bee decks perhaps a decade or so ago through Hong Kong, I believe, but not any longer.  Forgers still use the stickers now and then.

Yeah you're right that was them! Your breadth of knowledge never ceases to amaze.
Yeah I looked up bee forgeries because in my wanderings through Hong Kong I found bee decks for 1 USD in a random market stall (the stall was selling random goods like electronics and battteries and stuff) I bought a red and a blue one and opened em up to compare to some other bees I had. The ones I found in the market had the Connell Bros sticker on them but the cards inside handled just like real bees and the AoS and tuck box all seemed to be either legit or really, really good copies haha. I still don't know if they're real or not haha.

If they were fakes, you'd KNOW.  The Bee fakes are of terrible quality.  You may have gotten lucky and picked up some "old new stock" - old goods that sat in storage somewhere for an extended time and is still in unopened, new condition.
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2013, 07:04:33 PM »
 

yoel

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The company sticker you remember seeing is "Connell Bros." - they were actually importing Bee decks perhaps a decade or so ago through Hong Kong, I believe, but not any longer.  Forgers still use the stickers now and then.

Yeah you're right that was them! Your breadth of knowledge never ceases to amaze.
Yeah I looked up bee forgeries because in my wanderings through Hong Kong I found bee decks for 1 USD in a random market stall (the stall was selling random goods like electronics and battteries and stuff) I bought a red and a blue one and opened em up to compare to some other bees I had. The ones I found in the market had the Connell Bros sticker on them but the cards inside handled just like real bees and the AoS and tuck box all seemed to be either legit or really, really good copies haha. I still don't know if they're real or not haha.

If they were fakes, you'd KNOW.  The Bee fakes are of terrible quality.  You may have gotten lucky and picked up some "old new stock" - old goods that sat in storage somewhere for an extended time and is still in unopened, new condition.

The Krauzers near me sells Authentic Bee's but they were made for the chinese market. I don't have a deck on hand but they have AdCards that are in chinese and they handle just like any other Bee's.  The dollar store right next door sells the knockoff ones with the "Connell Bros" logo and they are crap. 

Though here is a little secret of mine.. I use a standard bee deck and I replace one card with one of the fakes and at least for me I can catch the fake one when I riffle or dribble through because of the difference in the stock and I use it as a force card.
 

Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2013, 02:44:31 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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The Krauzers near me sells Authentic Bee's but they were made for the chinese market. I don't have a deck on hand but they have AdCards that are in chinese and they handle just like any other Bee's.  The dollar store right next door sells the knockoff ones with the "Connell Bros" logo and they are crap. 

Though here is a little secret of mine.. I use a standard bee deck and I replace one card with one of the fakes and at least for me I can catch the fake one when I riffle or dribble through because of the difference in the stock and I use it as a force card.

Bees made for sale in China or anywhere else in Asia have a gold frame on the box.  I've never seen Chinese ad cards inside, but I don't own that many gold-border Bee decks, so anything's possible.

That's a clever idea about using the bogus card as a forcing card - but if I were the one you were performing for, I'd probably catch it.  I know too much about the cards these days.  Your average Joe or Jane on the street might be more easily fooled, since most of them don't think twice about playing cards.

We've been having a merry old time with this tangent, but let's stick to the topic - "rareangpow" from eBay.
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2013, 03:02:50 AM »
 

Sher143

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I'm so glad I came across this thread. At least now I know to be wary. I actually have several items on my watch list from this seller, but I luckily haven't bought anything from him/her yet.
 

Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2013, 05:59:19 AM »
 

Yashi

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Wow, thanks for the warning. I was just about to buy his brick of JAQK Cellars and I was determined. Now I'm skeptical. But it's hard to believe that all the decks he's selling is counterfeit. He could have made it a bit cheaper to attract more people.
 

Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2013, 06:14:03 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Wow, thanks for the warning. I was just about to buy his brick of JAQK Cellars and I was determined. Now I'm skeptical. But it's hard to believe that all the decks he's selling is counterfeit. He could have made it a bit cheaper to attract more people.

The man is shipping from Malaysia, and he's undercutting even some American sellers.  He had to pay extra just to get it sent to him in the first place.  It is indeed possible that not all of his products are forged, but if it looks like a pig, sounds like a pig, smells like a pig, feels like a pig and tastes like a pig, it's not likely to be a giraffe.  If someone sells even one forgery, it makes you wonder what other stock he has that's forged.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 06:19:48 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2013, 07:11:34 AM »
 

Yashi

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Yeah. I'd like to know eBay's response to the matter though.
 

Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2013, 07:26:40 AM »
 

Sher143

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I was looking through some of the stuff he had on sale and I think what puts the guard down for most consumers are the non-stock photos of the decks,  which make it seem like the seller has the original deck in question. However,  I've seen this happen many times,  where the seller uses the non-stock photo of another eBay seller. For the JAQKs (or any other deck,  really),  the photos may have been taken from another seller,  which is why the listing looks legit. 
 

Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2013, 08:05:40 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Yeah. I'd like to know eBay's response to the matter though.

Well, FFN was the original complainant on this topic - it would be a matter of whether or not he reported it to eBay.  No report, no response.
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2013, 01:06:45 PM »
 

FrenchFryNecromancer

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Wow, thanks for the warning. I was just about to buy his brick of JAQK Cellars and I was determined. Now I'm skeptical. But it's hard to believe that all the decks he's selling is counterfeit. He could have made it a bit cheaper to attract more people.

Personally, I will never deal with him again.  You get burned once, and its just not worth the effort of going through the whole eBay / PayPal resolution process again.  (What a time suck that was.)

I can't trust anyone who is selling something like a brick of "If An Octopus Could Palm" decks every single week.  It just doesn't make sense because it is not possible to get that many and sell them for so low.  MAYBE....  if you see one or two doubtful auctions here and there.  But... when you look at all the auctions he is listing as a whole, its just absurd.

I'm sure some of his items are genuine.  I imagine he (they?) have to first buy one of the original items, so they can study and scan images of it in order to create realistic counterfeits.  At some point he is going to want to sell the original item back on eBay when he is finished with it.  But, there will be far more counterfeits being sold and you won't know which you are getting.

I'm so glad I came across this thread. At least now I know to be wary. I actually have several items on my watch list from this seller, but I luckily haven't bought anything from him/her yet.

I'm glad this post is helping to raise awareness.


It seems more likely he is printing counterfeits and selling them as if they were the real thing.
...or (if I was to play "Devil's Advocate") perhaps he's a not-so-knowledgeable retailer buying counterfeits because he doesn't know any better, thinks they're real and was offered a great deal.  Either way, though, it's not a good sign.

I agree it is not a good sign either way.  I actually messaged back and forth with him (about a year ago) and he claimed ignorance of them being counterfeits.  But the things he said to me (and the way he said them) also felt fishy.  In addition to the other facts I was looking at, it made me doubt his honesty.

Either way, it is the seller's responsibility to ensure they are not selling false goods.  Or else, at least NOTE in the auction that he isn't sure if it is authentic or a fake.  But to sell them as originals is reprehensible.  Here are some things I like to keep in mind:

  • I alerted him to the issue of the UltraGaffs being counterfeit about a year ago.  So he is now clearly aware of the issue of authenticity with expensive decks.
  • At one point I looked and he was selling auctions like these week after week after week.  So I have to assume he has either manufactured a large lot or has purchased a large lot.
  • By selling these cards, he at least knows enough about these cards to realize who makes them, and how rare they are.  It would stand to reason that at one point in his head, when buying a lot of 1,000 Sultan Treasuries or a lot of 1,000 Red LTD decks....   he might consider they cannot possibly be authentic.

So, given these thoughts, it occurs to me he is not entirely honest.

Yes, some of his auctions look authentic to me too.... and they very well might be.
But I just can't trust someone who willingly puts buyers at risk of loss by selling cards he may have reason to suspect are fakes.

I was looking through some of the stuff he had on sale and I think what puts the guard down for most consumers are the non-stock photos of the decks,  which make it seem like the seller has the original deck in question. However,  I've seen this happen many times,  where the seller uses the non-stock photo of another eBay seller. For the JAQKs (or any other deck,  really),  the photos may have been taken from another seller,  which is why the listing looks legit.

Some of them really might be authentic.  But I will say that any photos of the UltraGaff brick I had purchased would have looked just like the originals.  It was only upon very close inspection I started noticing a bunch of things were wrong.  Someone who isn't looking as closely as I was may not even have noticed.  The counterfeits were pretty good imitations at first glance.  And if you didn't open the decks, you would have even less reason to doubt their authenticity.

If you all are interested I can put up some photos I took a while back comparing the UltraGaff counterfeits to the real decks.

Yeah. I'd like to know eBay's response to the matter though.

Well, FFN was the original complainant on this topic - it would be a matter of whether or not he reported it to eBay.  No report, no response.

I mentioned in my first post that I did contact eBay about the issue and never heard back.  My reports of violations just disappeared into a black hole of nothingness.  I even sent emails to Ellusionist, Theory 11, and Dan & Dave to let them know about this guy.  They all essentially replied with, "hey thanks for the info, we'll look into it" and then I never heard anything further.  It's was quite akin to yelling into outer space.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2013, 12:30:24 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2013, 04:45:18 PM »
 

Justin O.

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I bought a deck of Sultan Treasurys from this seller a while back, close to the beginning of my collecting (Probably paid more than I should have) and I would be hard pressed to see these as a forgery, the quality of the tuck at least really holds up. For the price I put down I hold be really upset to find they were fakes. At some point I will pick up another treasury and do a side by side.
I hope you're wrong. I will definitely keep my distance from this buyer from here on out though. Not worth the chance.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 05:48:06 PM by Justin O. »
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2013, 12:33:53 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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If you all are interested I can put up some photos I took a while back comparing the UltraGaff counterfeits to the real decks.

That would actually be an excellent idea.

Also, please note that I combined your three consecutive posts into a single post.  When you have more info to add only minutes after your last post and no one else has commented yet, simply edit that post and add to it rather than making a second or third one.
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Hey guys, trying not to get ripped off on eBay
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2013, 01:19:13 AM »
 

Justin O.

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Would love everyones input on this Ebay item
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-deck-Karnival-DOSE-deck-playing-cards-BY-BBM-MFG-USPCC-/181289185326?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a35ad702e

I've been looking for this deck for a while now and have had zero luck, I'm a little suspicious to see it pop up all of a sudden and to see so many in stock.
Does this look suspect or am I just being paranoid?

Thanks for any input
-Justin
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Re: Hey guys, trying not to get ripped off on eBay
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2013, 01:38:14 AM »
 

Fanofyankees13

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Not sure if you're being paranoid or not, but the seller does have pretty overwhelmingly positive feedback. Regardless, if you don't feel comfortable buying it, I have an extra deck I could just send you. Throw me a PM if you're interested.
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Re: Hey guys, trying not to get ripped off on eBay
« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2013, 02:04:55 AM »
 

Justin O.

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I really appreciate it FoY, I am much more comfortable buying through the community than off eBay overseas !

PM sent!
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Re: Hey guys, trying not to get ripped off on eBay
« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2013, 02:10:49 AM »
 

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This seller is perfectly fine. I buy from him all the time and as recently as 2 days ago. Buy from him with complete confidence.  That deck is not that hard to find BTW.
 

Re: Hey guys, trying not to get ripped off on eBay
« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2013, 05:40:53 AM »
 

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Yeah,  I ordered the warrior horse deck from him and I got it. The deck came in a padded envelope. 
 

Re: Hey guys, trying not to get ripped off on eBay
« Reply #30 on: December 31, 2013, 07:19:27 AM »
 

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Yup, I've bought from him before, he's cool. Although, the price for that deck is a bit overpriced. You can get it cheaper on big blind medias website. Not too sure how much shipping overseas is though, can't expect it to be too much from the UK.
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Re: Hey guys, trying not to get ripped off on eBay
« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2013, 09:02:18 AM »
 

Anthony

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I've wanted to pick this deck up, but just not at that price. BBM has been sold out for a bit ($8.24), but the deck they have listed on their site is the new 2 way back version.


 
« Last Edit: December 31, 2013, 09:15:17 AM by Sparkz »
 

Re: Hey guys, trying not to get ripped off on eBay
« Reply #32 on: December 31, 2013, 09:53:20 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I've wanted to pick this deck up, but just not at that price. BBM has been sold out for a bit ($8.24), but the deck they have listed on their site is the new 2 way back version.

The deck's first incarnation was the same as what the eBay seller has.  The box had that smiley face on it and nothing else.  It was the first Karnival deck to not bear the Bicycle name - why, I couldn't tell you.  Nor can I tell you why the name, Karnival Dose, never appeared on the box.  The designer, Sam Hayles, has a studio called Dose Productions, so that explains the name itself.  The cards had those one-way smiley faces on the backs.  At the time, it was BBM's second fully-custom deck design, with Bicycle Karnival Dead Eyes being the first.

The second incarnation of this deck came out when BBM started making foil-box versions of many of their decks as limited editions.  That was the introduction of the Bicycle Karnival Dose Redux deck - they went with Bicycle branding this time around.  The backs had a double-headed smiley-face design that was supposed to seem two-way, but if you examined the corners, you'd see one of them was different from the others, with more white in it, making the deck a nearly-subtle one-way back.

That first version of the deck sold out and is not being reprinted.  The second version wasn't as popular, I think, but it's printed as a limited edition, so they won't last forever.  I wouldn't say that $20 a pack is the best price, but I don't think it's out of the ballpark, either.
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Re: Hey guys, trying not to get ripped off on eBay
« Reply #33 on: December 31, 2013, 12:02:15 PM »
 

Justin O.

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Thanks for all of the feedback guys, especially the confirmation of the seller, he has a great shop that I feel more confident looking through it knowing he has some endorsement.
I saw that BBM has the Dose Redux but that isn't what I'm looking for; I have had a lot of trouble finding the original to be honest, it's been somewhat of a unicorn I can't seem to pin down.
I'm incredibly grateful to FoY for hooking me up, I'm much more comfortable buying from community members here where I can check the testimonials and not have to worry if they are legitimate or not..

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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #34 on: December 31, 2013, 04:22:56 PM »
 

agera94

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Was considering posting something similar to this myself. The sheer number of decks that have been often bound to giveaways subject to spend x receive y means there's a high chance they're counterfeit. For those of you unfamiliar with malaysia, the currency trades at around 1 USD buys 3.28 RM (Malaysian Ringet). The average income of a Malaysian working is around $1000RM/month - this is also amongst the more privileged workers out there. Let's say back when E had stock of the Black Ghost 1st Edition they may have done spend $150 and get a ghost deck free. That's almost 500RM not including shipping. This guy apparently has/had a brick of these...

Another notable example was the madison blue rounders. Again, buy a brick of browns, get a blue deck. That's about $250 RM per brick and he apparently has 12 or more. I'm more concerned about all of the positive feedback he has; they're probably from people who don't open the decks. If he starts listing Jerry's by the brick then I think that will be the definitive answer to our concerns.
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #35 on: December 31, 2013, 08:44:39 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Was considering posting something similar to this myself. The sheer number of decks that have been often bound to giveaways subject to spend x receive y means there's a high chance they're counterfeit. For those of you unfamiliar with malaysia, the currency trades at around 1 USD buys 3.28 RM (Malaysian Ringet). The average income of a Malaysian working is around $1000RM/month - this is also amongst the more privileged workers out there. Let's say back when E had stock of the Black Ghost 1st Edition they may have done spend $150 and get a ghost deck free. That's almost 500RM not including shipping. This guy apparently has/had a brick of these...

Another notable example was the madison blue rounders. Again, buy a brick of browns, get a blue deck. That's about $250 RM per brick and he apparently has 12 or more. I'm more concerned about all of the positive feedback he has; they're probably from people who don't open the decks. If he starts listing Jerry's by the brick then I think that will be the definitive answer to our concerns.

The prize tier for BG1E was actually $375.  Well over a month's salary for the average Malaysian.  It was on eBay for much less, though.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2013, 08:45:20 PM by Don Boyer »
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #36 on: January 01, 2014, 01:17:22 AM »
 

agera94

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Was considering posting something similar to this myself. The sheer number of decks that have been often bound to giveaways subject to spend x receive y means there's a high chance they're counterfeit. For those of you unfamiliar with malaysia, the currency trades at around 1 USD buys 3.28 RM (Malaysian Ringet). The average income of a Malaysian working is around $1000RM/month - this is also amongst the more privileged workers out there. Let's say back when E had stock of the Black Ghost 1st Edition they may have done spend $150 and get a ghost deck free. That's almost 500RM not including shipping. This guy apparently has/had a brick of these...

Another notable example was the madison blue rounders. Again, buy a brick of browns, get a blue deck. That's about $250 RM per brick and he apparently has 12 or more. I'm more concerned about all of the positive feedback he has; they're probably from people who don't open the decks. If he starts listing Jerry's by the brick then I think that will be the definitive answer to our concerns.

The prize tier for BG1E was actually $375.  Well over a month's salary for the average Malaysian.  It was on eBay for much less, though.

Ahh yes, silly me. I was thinking of a couple of occasions when it was for $142 and something else, but yes you are correct. That provides even more substance to the arguments against this seller.

Also came across something interesting from the same guy. A brick worth of Magic Con V2 decks signed by D&D???
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AUTOGRAPHED-Dan-and-Dave-Magic-con-Magiccon-v2-Playing-Cards-ONE-DECK-/110881848866?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d112be22&_uhb=1

And a few more outrageous listings when you consider things such as purchase incentives (buy x amount get y free), prize tiers amounts and the recent international shipping delays with E due to their Cyber Monday sales:
3 Scarlet rounders signed in the lucite case
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Ellusionist-Signed-Scarlet-Rounders-Playing-Cards-in-New-Lucite-Case-/121230384979?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c39e4df53&_uhb=1

6 lots of Red Arcane uncut sheets w/ Red arcane deck
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Ellusionist-Theory11-Dan-and-Dave-Dan-Dave-Red-Arcane-DECK-UNCUT-SHEET-/121230386188?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c39e4e40c&_uhb=1

12 scarlet rounders:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Ellusionist-Rare-Deck-Theory11-Dan-and-Dave-Dan-Dave-Scarlet-Rounders-ONE-DECK-/111226385130?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19e59bf2ea&_uhb=1

12 blue rounders:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Ellusionist-Rare-Deck-Theory11-Dan-and-Dave-Dan-Dave-Blue-Rounders-ONE-DECK-/111226384705?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19e59bf141&_uhb=1

The list just can go on and on forever. From looking through his listings, some of his more recent listings may actually be legit. However a majority of his listings have to be fake.

I'm willing to take one for the team - I could purchase a deck and compare it to one I own.

The only possible explanation I have for the quantity of some of these listings is that this seller is somehow connected to employees from E, D&D, T11, etc.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2014, 01:18:46 AM by agera94 »
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #37 on: January 01, 2014, 03:18:26 AM »
 

Siegismyname

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The average income of a Malaysian working is around $1000RM/month - this is also amongst the more privileged workers out there.

This is off topic but I don't know where you got your figures. I know for a fact that the average F&B service crew is paid RM1600/mth.

Here are some stats:

http://www.salaryexplorer.com/salary-survey.php?loc=130&loctype=1

But I do agree that this seller's items are suspicious and I remember reading about the fake ultragaff episode on the old UC.
 

Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #38 on: January 01, 2014, 03:40:27 AM »
 

agera94

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Salary yes it's more, but I was going off of wage a few years ago. It's been a while since I've spoken to my family in Malaysia so hopefully te wage has increased too.
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #39 on: January 01, 2014, 05:23:35 PM »
 

Mike Ratledge

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Interesting.  I knew I had seen this name before: he sold me a deck of Lane's "Multi-Miller" ('expo') Gargoyles.  I found them, put them next to another deck that I got from Lance (signed), and they are identical.  Absolutely no way they are kanged.  I'd have to say he doesn't know what he's doing first off, but once you've sold so many "ultra rare" decks, you certainly should.  Now, the Centurion 909's I bought about 3 or 4 months ago looked fake when I got them, so I put them aside.  Comparing them to another deck today, I found that they are obviously fakes - but didn't come from this guy - another seller in Malaysia (who's to say they aren't the same person?).  You have to watch yourself every step these days!

The MultiMiller Gargoyles are fine, and I paid a reasonable price for them.  I see he has the identical decks up for sale right now for $50/deck, and it appears as though he's got about 10 of them?  I have to agree that he has a good track record except for two "Neutral" feedbacks and two "Negative" feebacks, one of which I think is the original poster's (ref: fake gaffs), the other one is about a deck of JNugs that arrived "damaged".  Since it went for $550, I think I would have raised a bit more of a stink!
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #40 on: January 01, 2014, 06:00:08 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Interesting.  I knew I had seen this name before: he sold me a deck of Lane's "Multi-Miller" ('expo') Gargoyles.  I found them, put them next to another deck that I got from Lance (signed), and they are identical.  Absolutely no way they are kanged.  I'd have to say he doesn't know what he's doing first off, but once you've sold so many "ultra rare" decks, you certainly should.  Now, the Centurion 909's I bought about 3 or 4 months ago looked fake when I got them, so I put them aside.  Comparing them to another deck today, I found that they are obviously fakes - but didn't come from this guy - another seller in Malaysia (who's to say they aren't the same person?).  You have to watch yourself every step these days!

The MultiMiller Gargoyles are fine, and I paid a reasonable price for them.  I see he has the identical decks up for sale right now for $50/deck, and it appears as though he's got about 10 of them?  I have to agree that he has a good track record except for two "Neutral" feedbacks and two "Negative" feebacks, one of which I think is the original poster's (ref: fake gaffs), the other one is about a deck of JNugs that arrived "damaged".  Since it went for $550, I think I would have raised a bit more of a stink!

In summation, someone in Malaysia sold you a fake pack of Centurions.  It would seem that someone in Malaysia is printing up counterfeit decks for the collectors' market, or having them made elsewhere and distributing them in Malaysia.  Either way, it's not a good sign.
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eBay Seller "phillipsna" selling standard decks as LE decks
« Reply #41 on: January 02, 2014, 06:37:54 PM »
 

Justin O.

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Hey Guys, just want to give a heads up that I recieved a Fulton's Clip Joint Private Reserve that I believe to be a standard Clip Joint with a fake sticker slapped on.
The deck came in cellophane wrap that had the pull strip removed (Effectively making it a top celo cover and a bottom celo cover seperated from one another by a small space.)
If I'm not mistaken the Private Reserve decks did not come celo wrapped...
Maybe the seller was just being fancy and put celo on it because he was bored and had a steady hand. Ok, maybe...
The box had all of the right embossing and foil ink but what really gave it away was that the seal was a poor, pixelated and slightly color tinted version of the Private Reserve seal.

Seller might not know... But wanted to let all of you guys know.

I contacted the seller who offered me a full refund if I would like to return the deck.
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Re: eBay Seller "phillipsna" selling standard decks as LE decks
« Reply #42 on: January 02, 2014, 11:19:58 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Hey Guys, just want to give a heads up that I recieved a Fulton's Clip Joint Private Reserve that I believe to be a standard Clip Joint with a fake sticker slapped on.
The deck came in cellophane wrap that had the pull strip removed (Effectively making it a top celo cover and a bottom celo cover seperated from one another by a small space.)
If I'm not mistaken the Private Reserve decks did not come celo wrapped...
Maybe the seller was just being fancy and put celo on it because he was bored and had a steady hand. Ok, maybe...
The box had all of the right embossing and foil ink but what really gave it away was that the seal was a poor, pixelated and slightly color tinted version of the Private Reserve seal.

Seller might not know... But wanted to let all of you guys know.

I contacted the seller who offered me a full refund if I would like to return the deck.

Honestly, I'm not seeing it in the photos you provided.  The fact that the seller is offering a full refund leaves me inclined to think they're not trying to rip you off.
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Re: eBay Seller "phillipsna" selling standard decks as LE decks
« Reply #43 on: January 03, 2014, 12:43:03 AM »
 

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Going off the title of this thread, is he selling any other Limited Edition decks that look sketchy?
 

Re: eBay Seller "phillipsna" selling standard decks as LE decks
« Reply #44 on: January 03, 2014, 02:18:57 AM »
 

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Honestly, I'm not seeing it in the photos you provided.  The fact that the seller is offering a full refund leaves me inclined to think they're not trying to rip you off.
I didn't call out the fact that I thought it was fake, I only addressed that the cellophane was opened when I received it on a deck that doesn't come wrapped from D/D. His response was that it was completely sealed and unopened when he sent it. It's hard to imagine he didn't know that the celo pull was removed, however the seal holds up without any close inspection and if nobody knew better I can see not even realizing there was something off.

Below is a closer image of the seal, you can see what I mean, you can see in the image that the finish on the seals are even different.
I have to say it is somewhat clever to take the standard Clip Joint and just throw a cheap printer sticker on to sell it as a premium deck, but if you are going to scam people at least have the decency to use to better quality printer.

Going off the title of this thread, is he selling any other Limited Edition decks that look sketchy?

I couldn't really tell until I looked at the decks side by side, so I'm not sure about other listings from the seller.
The celo was just suspicious, the seal was the deciding factor.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2014, 02:26:26 AM by Justin O. »
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Re: eBay Seller "phillipsna" selling standard decks as LE decks
« Reply #45 on: January 03, 2014, 07:28:34 AM »
 

splice42

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The seal really does look fake to me. I can see at least one perfectly good reason the seller is willing to offer a refund: if he's asking for the deck back, under the pretense that the buyer will get his money back and the deck is perfectly legit so he wants it back to sell it again, he'll get the sealed deck back, and the buyer now has no definite proof that anything was fake. The seller will claim it's all a mistake on the buyer's part, his reputation doesn't get the hit that a definite proof of him selling fakes would, and he gets to continue his scam.

I would suggest opening it up and proving 100% that it's fake, but that's obviously not ideal given that the buyer would be out of his money and I very much doubt eBay or paypal would care about it and force a refund. I doubt they would even do anything about the seller, the fake decks would continue to be sold, people would continue to buy them, the buyer would be out of pocket, and only a few small communities would know the truth. Thorny situation to be sure.
 

Re: eBay Seller "phillipsna" selling standard decks as LE decks
« Reply #46 on: January 03, 2014, 07:41:07 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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The seal really does look fake to me. I can see at least one perfectly good reason the seller is willing to offer a refund: if he's asking for the deck back, under the pretense that the buyer will get his money back and the deck is perfectly legit so he wants it back to sell it again, he'll get the sealed deck back, and the buyer now has no definite proof that anything was fake. The seller will claim it's all a mistake on the buyer's part, his reputation doesn't get the hit that a definite proof of him selling fakes would, and he gets to continue his scam.

I would suggest opening it up and proving 100% that it's fake, but that's obviously not ideal given that the buyer would be out of his money and I very much doubt eBay or paypal would care about it and force a refund. I doubt they would even do anything about the seller, the fake decks would continue to be sold, people would continue to buy them, the buyer would be out of pocket, and only a few small communities would know the truth. Thorny situation to be sure.

That close up image of the seal "seals" it for me.  They're fake.

The "get the goods back" theory is good.

There's no need to even open the deck.  The deck can indeed be a genuine Clip Joint - they're cheap decks, hardly worth counterfeiting in themselves.  It's the LE sticker that makes the deck worth anything.  Forging that one silly little sticker was all it took, and obviously some counterfeiter realized this and saw a chance to make money on this exploit.  It's one of the reasons I hate the creation of a "limited edition" that's practically the same product as the original, with something as simple as a sticker making the difference between LE and SE.  Even autographs aren't the best ideas - signature forgeries have been going on for centuries and now that creators charge a premium for signed decks, there's little stopping the enterprising forger from pretending to be Paul Carpenter, Dan Buck, Jackson Robinson, etc.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2014, 07:48:08 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: eBay Seller "phillipsna" selling standard decks as LE decks
« Reply #47 on: January 03, 2014, 08:22:45 AM »
 

splice42

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Ahh, I see. I wasn't aware of the difference of the LE deck, I thought the tuck was the same but the contents weren't. If the only difference is the seal, then yes, that really looks like a fake to me. Perhaps the buyer could contact Brad Fulton from Penguin to verify that the seal really is fake and they didn't make a run with bad quality like this. I know I once bought a booklet by Derek DelGaudio from a third party, and I received what looked like a badly photocopied, staple-bound booklet and I was very doubtful that it was genuine and not a copy. However, after contacting the author, it turned out he did sell booklets like that.

On the other hand, you won't commonly see this shoddy quality on a limited edition deck from one of the majors, so I expect that Brad would confirm that these are fake. Where the buyer goes from there though... the obvious option is the refund from the seller, I suppose, since that's essentially guaranteed. As long as people google the seller's name they should hopefully get to this thread and see what's up.
 

Re: eBay Seller "phillipsna" selling standard decks as LE decks
« Reply #48 on: January 03, 2014, 09:43:48 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Ahh, I see. I wasn't aware of the difference of the LE deck, I thought the tuck was the same but the contents weren't. If the only difference is the seal, then yes, that really looks like a fake to me. Perhaps the buyer could contact Brad Fulton from Penguin to verify that the seal really is fake and they didn't make a run with bad quality like this. I know I once bought a booklet by Derek DelGaudio from a third party, and I received what looked like a badly photocopied, staple-bound booklet and I was very doubtful that it was genuine and not a copy. However, after contacting the author, it turned out he did sell booklets like that.

On the other hand, you won't commonly see this shoddy quality on a limited edition deck from one of the majors, so I expect that Brad would confirm that these are fake. Where the buyer goes from there though... the obvious option is the refund from the seller, I suppose, since that's essentially guaranteed. As long as people google the seller's name they should hopefully get to this thread and see what's up.

No, that's a fake sticker, plain and simple.

If anything, it's the kind of thing that should be reported to eBay as fraudulent merchandise.  Sometimes they go after such things, sometimes they don't - which gives them a better track record than Kickstarter...
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #49 on: January 03, 2014, 09:53:42 AM »
 

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Well, I woke up to a Facebook message that made me sick to my stomach.

I recently did a trade with Aether member phantom1412
As part of the trade to her, I sent her an Ultragaff deck.  I purchased a brick of them from rareangpow a couple of years back.
When I won the ebay auction, I should have known something was up... I won the brick for $121

Anyway, back to the message this morning.  This is the proof you guys have been waiting for...


From phantom1412
"Hello, do you remember where did you get the ultragaff you traded with me? I just opened the deck today and i think its a fake.

I have another ultragaff deck of my own and i compared them.





The cards inside is not uspcc cards.

From the look only, there is not much difference, but the feeling and handling of the cards are weird.





And i found this at the bottom of the box.





The bottom box is surely fake.

Ellusionist Magic Heyond Reliep"


I immediately went and checked the 3 I have left.  The one in my collection I bought from Ellusionist and it has the correct spelling, the other 2 are fake.
This makes me sick.  I have traded/sold 10 of these to other people over the last 2 years.

This is the first real proof I've seen that there are fake decks out there. 
So, take it from me... if the price is too good to be true, there's most likely as issue.


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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #50 on: January 03, 2014, 10:00:23 AM »
 

phantom1412

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I think we should let people know about how to detect the fake decks. At least without opening the decks, we can easily see at the bottom of the decks. Of course if you open the decks you can tell which one is fake by the feel of paper/stock/finish.
 

Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #51 on: January 04, 2014, 02:20:37 AM »
 

agera94

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When you're selling rare decks like this guy is, most people won't open them up. I may buy one of his more common rarer decks to open it up and compare it.
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #52 on: January 04, 2014, 03:17:05 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I think we should let people know about how to detect the fake decks. At least without opening the decks, we can easily see at the bottom of the decks. Of course if you open the decks you can tell which one is fake by the feel of paper/stock/finish.

...or the spelling of "Magic Heyond Reliep"...  :))

It's not always so easy to spot the fakes, particularly if the fakes are good and you've never owned the originals.  Alex mentioned he's seen some Jerry's fakes that actually perform rather nicely.
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #53 on: January 05, 2014, 01:00:22 AM »
 

FrenchFryNecromancer

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I have to agree that he has a good track record except for two "Neutral" feedbacks and two "Negative" feebacks, one of which I think is the original poster's (ref: fake gaffs), the other one is about a deck of JNugs that arrived "damaged".  Since it went for $550, I think I would have raised a bit more of a stink!

I'm not 100% sure, because this happened back in August 2012.... but I don't think I was allowed to leave negative feedback for rareangpow.

I used whatever piece of $#@! resolution center process eBay had available at that time (around August 2012).  Not sure if the process has changed since then.  Anyway, I had to open a case, describe the issue, and wait for the seller to have a chance to respond.  Had to given him like X number of days.  I think I ended up waiting around 1 month or 2 months.  It felt like an eternity waiting for a response from the eBay crew to take action.  I believe I ended up opening a case on the PayPal site as well, which then I think trumped and/or closed out the eBay case... ?  (I can't quite remember this part of the details.... except that it was really stupid.)

Due to the lack of satisfactory support within a reasonable (in my mind) timeframe from both eBay and PayPal staff... I ended up calling up DiscoverCard.  I believe Discover reversed the charge very quickly so the money was now missing from PayPal's pocket.  Discover did this first, and THEN began to investigate the story.... which also had to sit open for investigation for like 1 or 2 months.  Anyway, this immediate charge reversal probably lit a fire under PayPal's butt.  They got the seller to issue a full refund (which only restored PayPal's missing money and restored my PayPal account to "good standing").  Yeah, I almost forgot about that...  after I did the DiscoverCard thing charge reversal, PayPal froze up my account so I couldn't use it temporarily.  Real nice move PayPal.... stay classy!  (Way to support legitimate users.)

The seller, for his part, did email me back and forth several times towards the beginning of this fiasco and wanted to get all the cards back in his possession in order to give me a refund.  No way was I going to give him the evidence I had, and no way was I going to pay to ship this thing back to Malaysia.  I finally agreed to destroy all the decks to his satisfaction, which involved cutting all the boxes in half, and cutting in half one important card from each deck.  Once I sent him photo documentation of this, he issued the full refund to PayPal, and PayPal restored my account.

Anyway, I can't be 100% sure, but I don't think the resolution center allowed me to leave negative feedback.  I do know, however, that as a Seller (more recently when I sold my used iPhone), if a buyer never pays, and I use the resolution center then I CAN NOT enter negative feedback.  The buyer just gets a non-paying bidder strike or some such nonsense.  Pretty dumb.

I guess eBay figures if all the buyers and sellers have "EXCELLENT FEEDBACK" then more transactions will go down and they can keep scraping their % off the top.  Cha-Chiiiiing!!!  $ $ $ $$$ $$$$

DISCLAIMER:  I may be feeling a tad bitter/jaded right now.

Ellusionist Magic Heyond Reliep"

Wow.  (Smacks forehead)  I just went to check the UltraGaff counterfeits I still have in my closet, and surprise surprise....  they have the same misspelling on the bottom of the box!  Can't believe I somehow missed this in my original "investigative work".  Be glad I'm not a detective.... the killer would still be at large.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2014, 01:21:47 AM by FrenchFryNecromancer »
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #54 on: January 12, 2014, 02:13:21 AM »
 

FrenchFryNecromancer

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Here are some of the UltraGaff photos I took comparing the counterfeit deck with the real thing.

Both of these photos demonstrate differences, but perhaps in a surprising way, since the fake versions almost look more polished.  In both of these fakes you can see (if you click the photo to see the big version) that the lines are more sharp and clearly defined.  However, in the real version these lines are made up more of little tiny dots.

This is especially apparent on the edges of the body of the angel riding the bicycle in 2nd set of photos.  There is some type of shading created in the original art with the little dots that is not present on the fake.  (Not to mention that the red card changing to blue pattern is clearly different as well.)

NOTE:  See the file names I have given below each of the photos to clearly identify which are 'fake' or 'real'.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2014, 02:21:39 AM by FrenchFryNecromancer »
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #55 on: January 12, 2014, 02:15:07 AM »
 

FrenchFryNecromancer

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And a few more...

The differences on these are a little more obvious.  The fakes look much worse than the original art.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2014, 02:20:48 AM by FrenchFryNecromancer »
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Re: eBay Seller "phillipsna" selling standard decks as LE decks
« Reply #56 on: January 14, 2014, 03:53:00 PM »
 

Justin O.

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Received a full refund from seller.

Will report to eBay.
Kickstarter completely revolutionized the way I waste money.

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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #57 on: January 14, 2014, 08:03:08 PM »
 

Yashi

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Photoshop fail. But I would have been a sucker if I bought the fake ones since I don't own any originals.
 

Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #58 on: January 28, 2014, 09:31:59 PM »
 

jwats01

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Wow. I'm so glad I found this post. I wanted some Ace Fulton's Game of Death and this guy has them:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-DECKS-BUNDLE-Fultons-Game-of-Death-Chinatown-Clip-Joint-Private-Reserve-/111179409729?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19e2cf2941

But thanks to you guys, I'm staying far away, and will keep looking. Crazy!
Thanks all!
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 09:34:37 PM by jwats01 »
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #59 on: January 29, 2014, 03:07:49 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Wow. I'm so glad I found this post. I wanted some Ace Fulton's Game of Death and this guy has them:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-DECKS-BUNDLE-Fultons-Game-of-Death-Chinatown-Clip-Joint-Private-Reserve-/111179409729?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19e2cf2941

But thanks to you guys, I'm staying far away, and will keep looking. Crazy!
Thanks all!

If the first two photos are his, then something's wrong - the decks don't appear to have cellophane on them!
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #60 on: January 29, 2014, 08:33:45 AM »
 

Nurul

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They do have cellophane, u can see the glare from the flash on the game of death death deck.

Also, although his items are very controversial, not all of them are. I bought this bundle ( for cheaper price) and as far as I could tell, nothing was wrong with them. I've since sold them on, n the person who bought them has never got back to me with anything. Hope that helps.
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #61 on: March 08, 2014, 08:39:17 PM »
 

Mike Ratledge

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Dunno.  I've come to the conclusion that this guy is an opportunist and likely dumb-arse, but not a deliberate ripoff.  I have communicated with him directly by email, run a little bit of behind the scene sketch-work from the 'office' and everything checks out.  I have gotten a few really good deals from him, and the ones that I have picked are definitely NOT fakes.  He does have some stuff there that I have to believe isn't genuine, but I'm in the boat that he's not honest to a fault but he's not deliberately being a crook, either.  Just to be safe, after reading all this and digesting it I purposely ordered a couple of black back SS/Lion decks from him and inspected one, it's absolutely 100% genuine.  There's still those two Centurion decks that definitely are NOT genuine that are sitting in my walk-in vault from a purportedly different Malaysian user, but I'm thinking he got them from someone that is producing the fakes and not the source.  Now, is he aware that some of it isn't genuine, you'd have to assume so because talking to him personally on a 1-to-1 level he doesn't come off as an idiot, either.

As always, buyer beware, your mileage WILL vary, etc, etc.
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #62 on: March 20, 2014, 01:21:09 AM »
 

Ben Taylor

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This is a different seller, but these decks are also fake.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/151251566902

I've been looking for the Ultragaff deck for a while, so I jumped on this, since it was a relatively low price. I noticed "MAGIC HEYOND RELIEP" on the bottom, a Google search brought me to this post. I opened an eBay dispute, I'll see where that goes.
 

Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #63 on: March 20, 2014, 09:57:11 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Guys, due to light activity, I'm shutting down this board and combining the topics into a single sticky topic on the STISO board.  Look for it there.  READ THE FIRST POST, PLEASE for the updated rules.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2014, 10:19:36 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Fraud Alert Topic - Post Ripoffs and Counterfeits Here
« Reply #64 on: April 30, 2014, 09:53:53 AM »
 

Sher143

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WARNING: Another fake deck on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bicycle-ULTRAGAFF-deck-by-Ellusionist-Signed-by-Wayne-Houchin-EXTREMELY-RARE-/111337446770?&_trksid=p2056016.m2518.l4276

Picture below shows that box has "Magic Heyond Reliep" on it.



 

Re: Fraud Alert Topic - Post Ripoffs and Counterfeits Here
« Reply #65 on: April 30, 2014, 03:37:33 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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WARNING: Another fake deck on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bicycle-ULTRAGAFF-deck-by-Ellusionist-Signed-by-Wayne-Houchin-EXTREMELY-RARE-/111337446770?&_trksid=p2056016.m2518.l4276

Picture below shows that box has "Magic Heyond Reliep" on it.

Well, there's that, and the fact that Wayne doesn't spell his first name "Wyn" - and I consider it very unlikely that he'd initial his signature!
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Re: Fraud Alert Topic - Post Ripoffs and Counterfeits Here
« Reply #66 on: July 11, 2014, 01:37:48 PM »
 

ruicorreia

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   Hi guys. Just letting you know of a problem that I'm having for some time now with a supplier that is not being honest. I'm not saying not to buy anything from him, I'm just saying be careful.
   The supplier is Kingmagic.
   I've placed an order that I knew that would take quite a while to arrive. I arrived to the point of forgetting that order. Because it was taking so long, I've e-mailed them asking if they knew something. They answered that I never paid for shipping so they never shipped anything. I was surprised because I've placed a regular order, paid for what they asked and they never said anything.
   To make this short: they asked me more money to ship. I said that in that case I wasn't interested and I've asked for a refund. Iv'e sent e-mail's, I've opened cases on their website, I've reached them on Gmail chat... all the ways I could.
    The only answer is: silence. They don't give a damn.

   So, be advised. With these guys, don't you ever, ever let the Paypal protection expire. They are not serious.
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Re: Fraud Alert Topic - Post Ripoffs and Counterfeits Here
« Reply #67 on: July 25, 2014, 09:24:31 AM »
 

halcyondaze

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Reena Joy designs, the "wonderful" creators of the Relic collection (HTTP://www.kickstarter.com/projects/reenajoydesigns/relic-playing-cards-collection.  They had asked folks that were still interested to help pay for it, and since this was one of the first decks I had backed I was a bit naive on things at that time. 
So i contacted them yesterday to get an update on the progress of the cards.  Below is the reply they gave me.

Hi Backers

We had submitted the order but due to a misprinted run and a manufacturer disagreement, we will no longer be able to have the cards printed. According to the manufacturer we will not be getting a full refund therefore we have to fork out some of the funds out of our own pocket, we appreciate all your support and we apologize for this inconvenience. We will be sending out refunds to you as soon as we can. We will keep you informed about the progress.

Thank you

Keith


Also
Their Morse card campaign failed, justifiably
HTTP://www.kickstarter.com/projects/reenajoydesigns/morse-code-playing-cards-printed-by-uspcc


« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 11:46:27 AM by halcyondaze »
 

Re: Fraud Alert Topic - Post Ripoffs and Counterfeits Here
« Reply #68 on: July 25, 2014, 08:25:02 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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   Hi guys. Just letting you know of a problem that I'm having for some time now with a supplier that is not being honest. I'm not saying not to buy anything from him, I'm just saying be careful.
   The supplier is Kingmagic.
   I've placed an order that I knew that would take quite a while to arrive. I arrived to the point of forgetting that order. Because it was taking so long, I've e-mailed them asking if they knew something. They answered that I never paid for shipping so they never shipped anything. I was surprised because I've placed a regular order, paid for what they asked and they never said anything.
   To make this short: they asked me more money to ship. I said that in that case I wasn't interested and I've asked for a refund. Iv'e sent e-mail's, I've opened cases on their website, I've reached them on Gmail chat... all the ways I could.
    The only answer is: silence. They don't give a damn.

   So, be advised. With these guys, don't you ever, ever let the Paypal protection expire. They are not serious.

Where would one find Kingmagic?  eBay, Amazon, their own web page?




Reena Joy designs, the "wonderful" creators of the Relic collection (HTTP://www.kickstarter.com/projects/reenajoydesigns/relic-playing-cards-collection.  They had asked folks that were still interested to help pay for it, and since this was one of the first decks I had backed I was a bit naive on things at that time. 
So i contacted them yesterday to get an update on the progress of the cards.  Below is the reply they gave me.

Hi Backers

We had submitted the order but due to a misprinted run and a manufacturer disagreement, we will no longer be able to have the cards printed. According to the manufacturer we will not be getting a full refund therefore we have to fork out some of the funds out of our own pocket, we appreciate all your support and we apologize for this inconvenience. We will be sending out refunds to you as soon as we can. We will keep you informed about the progress.

Thank you

Keith


Also
Their Morse card campaign failed, justifiably
HTTP://www.kickstarter.com/projects/reenajoydesigns/morse-code-playing-cards-printed-by-uspcc




As unpleasant as that situation sounds, at least they're answering people and offering (eventual) refunds.  I wouldn't completely write them off just yet.

Please keep us informed of any change in the situation.
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Re: Fraud Alert Topic - Post Ripoffs and Counterfeits Here
« Reply #69 on: August 25, 2014, 04:53:39 PM »
 

publius

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Thank you to everyone for all of the priceless info here. I am sorry that the way you became educated on all of the fakes was through the loss of your money in purchasing them. However, your experiences have helped new and naive collectors such as myself. A consolation that leaves much to be desired, I know.

I also noticed on the fake tuck bottoms that feature the ubiquitous "HEYOND RELIEP" nonsense, the address for USPCC is Cincinnati, OH - instead of Erlanger, where they were when these supposed decks were printed.

I feel much more informed now - I would have surely fallen in some of these traps!
« Last Edit: August 25, 2014, 04:54:02 PM by publius »
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Re: Fraud Alert Topic - Post Ripoffs and Counterfeits Here
« Reply #70 on: August 25, 2014, 07:34:20 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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A follow-up on the Relic Collection by Reena Joy Designs: looks like they pulled down the circus tent and left town (translation: they shut down their website and the domain is available from GoDaddy).  As a word of caution, if a Kickstarter project creator has a failed project and they approach you about funding after the fact, go into the deal with both eyes open and the BS detector fully charged, especially if they have no established history of success.

Publius, I'm glad you are finding this topic useful.  It's why it's here!
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #71 on: September 16, 2014, 04:23:07 AM »
 

iDoctor

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I would advise to avoid buying from this ebay seller (rareangpow) from Malaysia.
I tried reporting him on eBay about a year ago but eBay continues to allow him to sell....... which is a shame.                                   .........................................................
I just wanted to spread the word.  I seriously do not recommend buying from this guy.

I just wanted to confirm the FrenchFryNecromancer's word about eBay seller rareangpow. His name is Alvin or Lau Luang Hung, email alvinling2006@yahoo.com, and he trades from Malaysia. In my case, after I purchased some D&D decks from him, he has offered me to sign - in few hours - ANY of D&D decks at Dan and Dave for additional $15 (but if I pay outside eBay only!).
I've spent a time and I've requested Bucks bros. about this guy and his fantastic ability to sign any of decks by D&D original signatures in few hours. Their answer was very polite but absoluthely clear. They have answered that they had sold Alvin cards IN THE PAST.
So I also do not recommend buying anything from this guy...
« Last Edit: September 16, 2014, 04:52:21 AM by iDoctor »
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Re: Fraud Alert Topic - Post Ripoffs and Counterfeits Here
« Reply #72 on: August 03, 2015, 11:47:02 AM »
 

Mr.parangot

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Are you sure that he is the same guy? I also did business with him (Alvin Ling) , but I sold him a deck of green rarebit playing cards 6 weeks ago and he contacted me now, that they never arrived. I started an investigation request now with DHL and I'm waiting for their response. Seems I have to be careful, with whom I'm dealing. But to his defense, He paid on time per paypal. I keep you updated.
 

Re: Fraud Alert Topic - Post Ripoffs and Counterfeits Here
« Reply #73 on: August 03, 2015, 12:08:52 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Are you sure that he is the same guy? I also did business with him (Alvin Ling) , but I sold him a deck of green rarebit playing cards 6 weeks ago and he contacted me now, that they never arrived. I started an investigation request now with DHL and I'm waiting for their response. Seems I have to be careful, with whom I'm dealing. But to his defense, He paid on time per paypal. I keep you updated.

Whenever dealing with a trader overseas, use a trackable method for shipping.  Then they can claim all they want that something never arrived, but if you have a deliver confirmation, you can call bullshit.  Because eBay tends to protect buyers more than sellers, you always need to insure your ass is covered.  Prompt payment doesn't mean crap in such circumstances - they want to look good for eBay when they later make their (allegedly fraudulent) claim.
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Re: Fraud Alert Topic - Post Ripoffs and Counterfeits Here
« Reply #74 on: August 03, 2015, 05:08:43 PM »
 

Mr.parangot

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The problem is I shipped it with tracking number, but it can't be found by the system. very strange case. I will see what DHL can do.
 

Re: Fraud Alert Topic - Post Ripoffs and Counterfeits Here
« Reply #75 on: August 03, 2015, 09:54:44 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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The problem is I shipped it with tracking number, but it can't be found by the system. very strange case. I will see what DHL can do.

Well if that's the case, then yes, you need to check with the carrier.  Sounds like they screwed up.  Did you get a receipt?
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Re: Fraud Alert Topic - Post Ripoffs and Counterfeits Here
« Reply #76 on: August 04, 2015, 02:45:34 AM »
 

Mr.parangot

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Yes, I got a receipt and a confirmation that they started shipping. Let's see, if they can track it down.
 

Re: Fraud Alert Topic - Post Ripoffs and Counterfeits Here
« Reply #77 on: August 04, 2015, 06:23:07 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Yes, I got a receipt and a confirmation that they started shipping. Let's see, if they can track it down.

As long as you have a receipt, you're good.  Having a receipt for the goods you sent would be great - unless, of course, it's worth more than its original retail price; then, it can get tricky.
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Re: Fraud Alert Topic - Post Ripoffs and Counterfeits Here
« Reply #78 on: September 18, 2015, 05:52:03 AM »
 

Mr.parangot

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All ended well in the end. the package was stuck for two months somewhere on the way  :-\