Author (Read 8291 times)

Robert Butler · « **on:** October 09, 2011, 10:13:30 PM »

Hey everyone, If you don't know me my name is Rob and I'm a Deck Lore Master. What the hell is that? Well lets break it down shall we?

(Deck) A pack of playing cards

(Lore) the body of knowledge, especially of a traditional, anecdotal, or popular nature

(Master) My ego LOL

I've spent 3 solid years researching playing cards down to Stock, finish, ink to stock ratio, creation process. I've spent a lot of time figuring out a lot of process involving cards in general. I have very reliable sources to my research on being the USPCC its self. So this thread is for all of you enthusiasts to post your questions and I will answer them. Enjoy!

Evan · « **Reply #1 on:** October 09, 2011, 10:14:27 PM »

interesting... sounds fun!

phantom1412 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 09, 2011, 10:22:33 PM »

Can I ask something like how many .... were made?

john · « **Reply #3 on:** October 09, 2011, 10:24:10 PM »

Quote from: phantom1412 on October 09, 2011, 10:22:33 PM

Can I ask something like how many .... were made?

Umm... How many of what, that might help Rob out a little.

Robert Butler · « **Reply #4 on:** October 09, 2011, 10:26:12 PM »

Questions have no limits but specifics will always help

phantom1412 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 09, 2011, 10:27:29 PM »

Question like
How many v6 were made?
How many green crown deck were made?

Robert Butler · « **Reply #6 on:** October 09, 2011, 10:28:42 PM »

Yes that's fine

V6 30,000
All Crown decks 30,000

john · « **Reply #7 on:** October 09, 2011, 10:31:27 PM »

Quote from: Robert Butler on October 09, 2011, 10:28:42 PM

Yes that's fine

V6 30,000
All Crown decks 30,000

Damn, I asked Kevin Reylek and he said "I know, but i can't release that information to the public"

phantom1412 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 09, 2011, 10:35:30 PM »

Wow, thanks.
And crown decks you said 30000, is that for all color or each color?

And how many v1-v5, IAOCP, magic con were made?

Robert Butler · « **Reply #9 on:** October 09, 2011, 10:39:44 PM »

Well V1 I'm not sure but I'm guessing around V3 and higher they started printing 30K decks as that is the average corporate order to the USPCC

As for the crowns that's per color.

Magic-Con: 1000

IAOCP: its limited so they made a number in the 2500 or lower but i'll have to confirm the number

phantom1412 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 09, 2011, 10:45:31 PM »

And do you know about T11 deck , David blaine decks?

Robert Butler · « **Reply #11 on:** October 09, 2011, 10:46:35 PM »

I know about most decks on the market. If you have questions I cant answer I can find the answer and get back to you. Just assume I know the answer to most of your questions.

phantom1412 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 09, 2011, 10:51:49 PM »

Yeah, thanks.
I wanted to ask how many JAQK, black stingers, propaganda, white lions, Split spades original, split spades bee, and Split spades lions were print?

john · « **Reply #13 on:** October 09, 2011, 10:55:43 PM »

I'll throw a couple question into the mix.

How many artifice v1 blue were there?
How many decks do you have?
Do you have pictures/videos of your collection?
How many jerrys nuggets were printed?
Finally , How many watermelon bees were printed?

Robert Butler · « **Reply #14 on:** October 09, 2011, 11:09:09 PM »

Quote from: jdsob97 on October 09, 2011, 10:55:43 PM

I'll throw a couple question into the mix.

How many artifice v1 blue were there?
How many decks do you have?
Do you have pictures/videos of your collection?
How many jerrys nuggets were printed?
Finally , How many watermelon bees were printed?

1. 30,000
2. not many, I've sold a lot of them for things my family has needed but I've had the privilege of getting my hands on some good things.
3. I used to do Deck Reviews but stopped in order to dive into a 6 month study of stocks and finishes. I recently finished that and I'll be revealing new reviews on Modern Manipulator. I've never made a video of my collection and likely never will.
4. The USPCC has never kept record how many vintage decks or most of the modern decks they've printed. There just now putting things in place to keep record of that info. Lee Asher might be able to tell me how many were printed so I'll give him a shout to see if he knows then I'll get back to you.
5. Same goes for the Watermelons. I'll do some digging.

As for all the questions about how many decks were printed like T11 and E decks. Unless they were put up as a rare deck or limited deck, there set at a 30K print run. A lot of decks were sold out and were reprinted to supply demand and have as many as 60 to 90 thousand on the market.

john · « **Reply #15 on:** October 09, 2011, 11:18:42 PM »

Say i would like to do into this study, how would i go by means of finding all of the information you know?

Also thank you for answering my questions.

Robert Butler · « **Reply #16 on:** October 09, 2011, 11:22:00 PM »

Quote from: jdsob97 on October 09, 2011, 11:18:42 PM

Say i would like to do into this study, how would i go by means of finding all of the information you know?

Also thank you for answering my questions.

That is a very popular question. I have to tell you tho, its taken me a very long time to acquire this information of mine. And it comes from talking, experimenting and networking with the right people. Even if you knew the right people, you would then need to do your own home work to acquire all the specifics. The answer is you must dig like I did and find your own methods. Its far too difficult for me to just hand you the secrets. Hopefully you understand.

Evan · « **Reply #17 on:** October 09, 2011, 11:24:51 PM »

I don't know if he is making all this up or not but I don't think the Blue Crown had 30,000 for each color deck. Also, Blue Artifice v1 wasn't 30,000... it was 50,000

Robert Butler · « **Reply #18 on:** October 09, 2011, 11:27:01 PM »

Quote from: ezstreet1997 on October 09, 2011, 11:24:51 PM

I don't know if he is making all this up or not but I don't think the Blue Crown had 30,000 for each color deck. Also, Blue Artifice v1 wasn't 30,000... it was 50,000

Well you can contest me but I honestly thought it was 30 but I'll ask Jason in the morning. No since in trying to be so harsh tho.

Evan · « **Reply #19 on:** October 09, 2011, 11:27:43 PM »

Quote from: Robert Butler on October 09, 2011, 11:27:01 PM

Well you can contest me but I honestly thought it was 30 but I'll ask Jason in the morning. No since in trying to be so harsh tho.

Im not trying to be harsh but your answers don't seem accurate

Robert Butler · « **Reply #20 on:** October 09, 2011, 11:29:20 PM »

Well My knowledge is very sharp in all areas but I didn't expect such a high demand for Printed Amounts. I know on average its 30K. I'll do some digging first thing in the morning with the USPCC and Jason. For now lets put the Amount questions to rest as you are right, there not nearly accurate enough to state so.

john · « **Reply #21 on:** October 09, 2011, 11:31:17 PM »

Quote from: Robert Butler on October 09, 2011, 11:22:00 PM

That is a very popular question. I have to tell you tho, its taken me a very long time to acquire this information of mine. And it comes from talking, experimenting and networking with the right people. Even if you knew the right people, you would then need to do your own home work to acquire all the specifics. The answer is you must dig like I did and find your own methods. Its far too difficult for me to just hand you the secrets. Hopefully you understand.

I understand, it took you many months to learn all this and you don't want to just give information away, although were should i begin in my quest for knowledge.

Robert Butler · « **Reply #22 on:** October 09, 2011, 11:38:04 PM »

start with what you have. Look at all the decks you have and pay attention to the differences. here are some starter tips for you.

DECK SPECS

*Ink to Stock Ratio- The deck is printed on different thicknesses of stock. But Ink to stock ratio is the amount of ink in the cards vs the stock. Bee is a good stock but not if its all black. Becomes soft and breaks down much faster. Tho it is the ideal stock for a black deck as it will hold up longer than any other.

*Cut- how was the deck cut? Traditional where it faros face down?

*Finishes- research this area of cards as its very sketchy to the public knowledge. Some finishes are not actually finishes.

*Stocks- Like finishes some stocks are confused. but learn the different thickness of the stocks between Bicycle, Bee, & aristocrat. Learn about the levels of thickness within each brand.

This is a very basic start.

john · « **Reply #23 on:** October 09, 2011, 11:45:49 PM »

Quote from: Robert Butler on October 09, 2011, 11:38:04 PM

start with what you have. Look at all the decks you have and pay attention to the differences. here are some starter tips for you.

DECK SPECS

*Ink to Stock Ratio- The deck is printed on different thicknesses of stock. But Ink to stock ratio is the amount of ink in the cards vs the stock. Bee is a good stock but not if its all black. Becomes soft and breaks down much faster. Tho it is the ideal stock for a black deck as it will hold up longer than any other.

*Cut- how was the deck cut? Traditional where it faros face down?

*Finishes- research this area of cards as its very sketchy to the public knowledge. Some finishes are not actually finishes.

*Stocks- Like finishes some stocks are confused. but learn the different thickness of the stocks between Bicycle, Bee, & aristocrat. Learn about the levels of thickness within each brand.

This is a very basic start.

Oh alright some of that i already know

(Ink to stock) I know very little about

(Cut) I would like to think i can tell the difference between a traditional and nontraditional cut deck

(finish) Like how linen is really a stock, same goes with air cushion it refers to the dimples

(stock) I am like 80% sure i know my stocks.

So with the information i provided, how much do you think I know? (1% being an average card player, 100% being you)

Robert Butler · « **Reply #24 on:** October 09, 2011, 11:49:58 PM »

There's too many little extras for me to answer that and it shouldn't matter what I think anyways.

john · « **Reply #25 on:** October 09, 2011, 11:52:12 PM »

Alright, fair enough ill go on my own mission to find out about this stuff.

Robert Butler · « **Reply #26 on:** October 09, 2011, 11:54:45 PM »

I'm here to help you, that's why I started this thread, but come to me with specifics and I'll help you out. Good luck man.

Gunshy1 · « **Reply #27 on:** October 09, 2011, 11:55:51 PM »

will we ever see uv-500 as a stock again, or is that gone forever?

Robert Butler · « **Reply #28 on:** October 09, 2011, 11:57:53 PM »

Quote from: Gunshy1 on October 09, 2011, 11:55:51 PM

will we ever see uv-500 as a stock again, or is that gone forever?

Gone forever my friend.

D_bag · « **Reply #29 on:** October 09, 2011, 11:59:58 PM »

Are all dimple finishes pretty much identical?

I'm not that good with cards and most cards to me in my opinion feel the same in terms of spreading. Blind folded I probably couldnt tell the difference between a standard bike or a split spades.

Robert Butler · « **Reply #30 on:** October 10, 2011, 12:03:10 AM »

the dimples your refering to are call air cushion. There applied to most decks and the dimples themselves have no different adjustments available. Just one type. There applied to many stocks and finishes tho so it simply enhances the deck overall.

Gunshy1 · « **Reply #31 on:** October 10, 2011, 12:06:14 AM »

Quote from: Robert Butler on October 09, 2011, 11:57:53 PM

Gone forever my friend.

NOOOOO lol. why is that exactly? i read it was because the cost of the paper went up, but why did the cost go up? and is bee stock most like the uv-500 stock?

Robert Butler · « **Reply #32 on:** October 10, 2011, 12:08:07 AM »

The UV 500 is no longer used and was about to be thrown out at the time of the E deal was negotiated to use it. I'm sure it will never be used again but I'm not sure about the stock comparison so I'll add it to my questions I'll ask tomorrow.

D_bag · « **Reply #33 on:** October 10, 2011, 12:09:50 AM »

Quote from: Robert Butler on October 10, 2011, 12:03:10 AM

the dimples your refering to are call air cushion. There applied to most decks and the dimples themselves have no different adjustments available. Just one type. There applied to many stocks and finishes tho so it simply enhances the deck overall.

So are all air cushion decks pretty much identical aside from the stock?

And are tally hos and bicycle pretty much the same stuff?

Robert Butler · « **Reply #34 on:** October 10, 2011, 12:10:55 AM »

Today there very much the same. But there are many other factors that can make a difference in two bicycle air cushion decks

D_bag · « **Reply #35 on:** October 10, 2011, 12:12:23 AM »

Quote from: Robert Butler on October 10, 2011, 12:10:55 AM

Today there very much the same. But there are many other factors that can make a difference in two bicycle air cushion decks

How so? I am very curious as I really don't know what is behind the cards.

Gunshy1 · « **Reply #36 on:** October 10, 2011, 12:12:32 AM »

is the linoid finish actually a finish?

Robert Butler · « **Reply #37 on:** October 10, 2011, 12:36:06 AM »

Linoid was a finish for tally ho. Now they apply the standard Air Cushion finish to tally ho's. they didnt change the info on the box, to pay tribute to the classic aspects of the tally ho.

xela · « **Reply #38 on:** October 10, 2011, 12:51:05 AM »

Just want to clear something up:

Traditional cut is a two-way faro i.e. Richard Turner's Bees

john · « **Reply #39 on:** October 10, 2011, 12:53:09 AM »

Because i haven't heard of "Richard Turner Bees" another traditional cut deck would be the bicycle dragon back playing cards.

D_bag · « **Reply #40 on:** October 10, 2011, 01:01:32 AM »

Hey so what makes lets say streamlines spread better than dollar store smooth cards?

I am very curious as to why because the dollar no name brand cards cant spread at all

John B. · « **Reply #41 on:** October 10, 2011, 01:06:26 AM »

can someone point me somewhere to understand what these cuts mean.

Kanped · « **Reply #42 on:** October 10, 2011, 02:36:34 AM »

DO you know The Jill Deck (not USPCC, printed in Europe) and if so do you know what stock/finish it is and what else uses them?

john · « **Reply #43 on:** October 10, 2011, 11:32:36 PM »

What stock and finish do both Jaqk decks have?

Reylek · « **Reply #44 on:** October 27, 2011, 04:07:02 PM »

I don't know if the number posted (30,000) for the Crown Decks was a guess or if someone is feeding wrong info, but I can definitely say that if you were to combine the entire runs of Blue, Red, and Green Crowns, you still wouldn't be anywhere close to 30,000 decks.

john · « **Reply #45 on:** October 27, 2011, 04:08:05 PM »

Quote from: Reylek on October 27, 2011, 04:07:02 PM

I don't know if the number posted (30,000) for the Crown Decks was a guess or if someone is feeding wrong info, but I can definitely say that if you were to combine the entire runs of Blue, Red, and Green Crowns, you still wouldn't be anywhere close to 30,000 decks.

Just say the number kevin.

Evan · « **Reply #46 on:** October 27, 2011, 04:12:56 PM »

Im guessing just a few thousand of each crown deck

phantom1412 · « **Reply #47 on:** October 27, 2011, 07:35:06 PM »

This topic came back alive.
Glad because I could find it.
Now I have new question, how many fantastique decks are printed?

xela · « **Reply #48 on:** October 27, 2011, 07:43:20 PM »

Sorry guys, I'm going to have to lock this topic - since the answers being given away are false half the time and Robert is no longer an active user on the forums.

Robert Butler · « **Reply #49 on:** October 28, 2011, 02:59:43 AM »

Hey sorry guys. Didn't mean to let the old thread go. But perhaps this one can replace it since the admin thinks out of all the dead topics my old thread needed locking. Now the printing Buber questions will have to stop as there very difficult to determin but other than that I should be able to help you. Hopefully this thread won't get the De'vo touch as well.

xela · « **Reply #50 on:** October 28, 2011, 03:02:43 AM »

Quote from: Robert Butler on October 28, 2011, 02:59:43 AM

Hey sorry guys. Didn't mean to let the old thread go. But perhaps this one can replace it since the admin thinks out of all the dead topics my old thread needed locking. Now the printing Buber questions will have to stop as there very difficult to determin but other than that I should be able to help you. Hopefully this thread won't get the De'vo touch as well.

If you keep this one updated and don't post misleading info then it will stay unlocked. That being said, I'm not positive what Buber, determin or the De'vo touch are (although the last one is a tad provocative).

Robert Butler · « **Reply #51 on:** October 28, 2011, 03:07:54 AM »

Mind stop being an ass? It was a typo... Damn! Not like your channel doesn't offer the occasional misinformative comment that you would Offer to be valuable info.

Now this thread is open for questions

xela · « **Reply #52 on:** October 28, 2011, 03:19:17 AM »

Quote from: Robert Butler on October 28, 2011, 03:07:54 AM

Mind stop being an ass? It was a typo... Damn! Not like your channel doesn't offer the occasional misinformative comment that you would Offer to be valuable info.

Now this thread is open for questions

My channel never claims to be a factual guru on all things cards.

Something you seem to forget is that you are not above this forum's etiquette guidelines. If any other member here was hurling insults around and treating people with such disrespect they would be talked down to. If you want to be a part of this community, you are going to be respectful, and that includes myself.

Also, as a disclaimer to others, shouldn't you mention that you're claiming to know everything about the company that has effectively cut all ties with you after you went on a hate tirade against them?

I'm not trying to be an ass (despite the fact that you consistently talk trash about me and many other people on here on a daily basis)., and coming from you that's like Hitler calling Bin Laden a jerk. I also genuinely want to know what a Buber is.

EDIT: Bored of your constant attention-seeking. If you can't play nice, you won't play at all. Bye!