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From Whimsical Teapots to VIZAĜO Playing Cards - The Journey

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Re: From Whimsical Teapots to Playing Cards - The Beginning
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2016, 09:20:15 PM »
 

Helshawk

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Just food for thought on the backgrounds.  Red for hearts is a no-brainer.  What if green were the background for the more organic, flora-like form of the clubs and yellow for the diamonds, since the most commonly found diamond is a yellow diamond.  Wrap that up with a black background for spades.  just some subtleties to mull over.
 

Re: From Whimsical Teapots to Playing Cards - The Beginning
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2016, 11:17:20 PM »
 

NineLives

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Another beautiful set of court cards!  ;D. Thanks for listening to everyone's suggestions, this deck is turning out fantastic...so colorful and lively...it definitely stands out amongst a lot of the other decks out there.  Really looking forward to the launch of this deck!   :D

Thank you so much Cardfool - glad to hear, your encouragement and feedback here on the forum means the world to me :)
I'll definitely be looking to your thoughts on the number cards when I get to them... and the naming of the deck :D

Just food for thought on the backgrounds.  Red for hearts is a no-brainer.  What if green were the background for the more organic, flora-like form of the clubs and yellow for the diamonds, since the most commonly found diamond is a yellow diamond.  Wrap that up with a black background for spades.  just some subtleties to mull over.

Thanks Helshawk - good points :)
My colour choices are adapted from the mineral elements associated with tarot suits. Over the years, this has become the way I see suit colours in both playing cards and tarot, though I'm happy to hear your thoughts on the following - especially as I don't want to break any rules that make this deck less playable :)

Hearts - absolutely right, RED - the element is water, yet symbolic of blood and emotion (which defines the colour)
Clubs - Yellow - the element is Fire - symbolising creativity, energy and spirituality
Diamonds - Green - the element is Earth - symbolising material wealth, growth, putting down roots and tending the earth
Spades - Indigo (dark blue) - the element is Air - symbolising clarity of mind, intelligence and intuition

I have seen the yellow diamonds and green clubs you describe - and also other variations where Copag use blue diamonds (and green clubs), and others using green diamonds, blue clubs and even blue hearts ... While four colour decks were developed with easy visibility in mind, I am curious if there is a standard that goes across the board? :)

Thanks again and *wave*
Annette :)


« Last Edit: August 04, 2016, 11:21:32 PM by NineLives »
 

Re: From Whimsical Teapots to Playing Cards - The Beginning
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2016, 07:44:37 PM »
 

Helshawk

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Very, very cool.  Glad to know the background was deliberate in their choices of color.  And, if there is that reference to tarot, perhaps you can strengthen it by incorporating the elemental symbols.  It seems it would be quite easy to do in the crowns,
 

Re: From Whimsical Teapots to Playing Cards - The Beginning
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2016, 05:24:15 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I have seen the yellow diamonds and green clubs you describe - and also other variations where Copag use blue diamonds (and green clubs), and others using green diamonds, blue clubs and even blue hearts ... While four colour decks were developed with easy visibility in mind, I am curious if there is a standard that goes across the board? :)

Thanks again and *wave*
Annette :)

There's no firm standard regarding the chosen colors used in four-color decks.  The general rule is that people tend to keep it simple, sticking to primaries for the most part.

There's some people who thoroughly advocate for using four-color decks, often because of visibility issues in older people.  They're sometimes called "no-revoke" decks because they help prevent mistakes called revokes in bridge - the playing of a card out-of-suit when you possess cards of the correct suit in your hand.

However, the majority of card players tend to prefer the use of only two colors.  Many people play solitaire games that rely on having only two colors - the additional colors makes playing with no-revoke decks a major headache.  Some just think it's confusing, preferring to use just the suit shapes alone to distinguish between suits and leaving the colors alone in their traditional two-color pattern.

One compromise I've seen and occasionally recommended in people I've consulted for is to choose colors that are different but similar or complementary for suits that are traditionally the same color.  For example, one might use two dark colors (like black, navy blue and/or forest green) for the black suits and two light colors (like white, yellow and pink) for the red suits, or perhaps one would use colors that are shades of each other, like pink and red for red suits, blue and sky blue (or black and gray) for black suits.  The right combination can make the deck easily usable for two-color solitaire games while still making each suit a different color.

Another possible option might be using four colors, but with filled-in pips for the black suits and outline pips for the red suits.  The colors chosen for such an option have to be just right and the thickness of the outlines need to be thick enough to easily identify the colors but thin enough to indicate it's a "light"/red suit at a glance.  In such a case, darker colors tend to be good for the solid pips, but you can't overlook the importance of making those outline pips dark - with the right choice of colors, solid pips in light colors and outline pips in dark colors could work - you'd have to experiment with your choices to see how functional they are.
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Re: From Whimsical Teapots to Playing Cards - The Beginning
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2016, 12:48:47 AM »
 

NineLives

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Very, very cool.  Glad to know the background was deliberate in their choices of color.  And, if there is that reference to tarot, perhaps you can strengthen it by incorporating the elemental symbols.  It seems it would be quite easy to do in the crowns,

Thanks Helshawk - great to hear :)


There's no firm standard regarding the chosen colors used in four-color decks.  The general rule is that people tend to keep it simple, sticking to primaries for the most part.

There's some people who thoroughly advocate for using four-color decks, often because of visibility issues in older people.  They're sometimes called "no-revoke" decks because they help prevent mistakes called revokes in bridge - the playing of a card out-of-suit when you possess cards of the correct suit in your hand.

However, the majority of card players tend to prefer the use of only two colors.  Many people play solitaire games that rely on having only two colors - the additional colors makes playing with no-revoke decks a major headache.  Some just think it's confusing, preferring to use just the suit shapes alone to distinguish between suits and leaving the colors alone in their traditional two-color pattern.

One compromise I've seen and occasionally recommended in people I've consulted for is to choose colors that are different but similar or complementary for suits that are traditionally the same color.  For example, one might use two dark colors (like black, navy blue and/or forest green) for the black suits and two light colors (like white, yellow and pink) for the red suits, or perhaps one would use colors that are shades of each other, like pink and red for red suits, blue and sky blue (or black and gray) for black suits.  The right combination can make the deck easily usable for two-color solitaire games while still making each suit a different color.

Another possible option might be using four colors, but with filled-in pips for the black suits and outline pips for the red suits.  The colors chosen for such an option have to be just right and the thickness of the outlines need to be thick enough to easily identify the colors but thin enough to indicate it's a "light"/red suit at a glance.  In such a case, darker colors tend to be good for the solid pips, but you can't overlook the importance of making those outline pips dark - with the right choice of colors, solid pips in light colors and outline pips in dark colors could work - you'd have to experiment with your choices to see how functional they are.

Thanks Don  :)
My hope was that the chosen palettes wouldn't throw any confusion in the mix. While I'm not aiming for a 'four colour deck',  I still don't want to be breaking rules - and your detailed helpful information is a relief :)

For now, I'll keep going with the current colours (may tweak somewhat as things progress) regardless of artwork, indices will be traditional black/red throughout...

In the previous update I forgot to add the pen & ink drawings for the Royal Diamonds:



Introducing the King of Diamonds:



Comparing to the drawing, this King's long hair has been fashionably rolled to suit his two-way appearance.

Coming soon: the Royal Spades ...

Thanks for looking!
Annette :)


 

Re: From Whimsical Teapots to Playing Cards - The Beginning
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2016, 10:50:23 AM »
 

Fess

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I don't think I've commented here and I really should because so far... I love this. These are great. I don't have any issue with eye feel at all here. My eyes naturally move to their eyes as a focus, exception being QoS which is nose then eyes and it works just fine. The colors are delightful and play well within the shapes. Even with the quirky font (I have yet to see the numbers) I can't complain about  the indices. One caveat, I'd love to see a slightly more obtuse diamond for the Pip itself. I'd love to see the diamond stretched out a little to resemble the shape on the QoD and JoD. The pip feels a little like a Box on it's edge. Spacing from the art is pretty much spot on, easy to identify without encouraging a negative eye feel from too much negative space. I'll say it again, I'm loving this.
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Re: From Whimsical Teapots to Playing Cards - The Beginning
« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2016, 11:16:32 PM »
 

NineLives

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I don't think I've commented here and I really should because so far... I love this. These are great. I don't have any issue with eye feel at all here. My eyes naturally move to their eyes as a focus, exception being QoS which is nose then eyes and it works just fine. The colors are delightful and play well within the shapes. Even with the quirky font (I have yet to see the numbers) I can't complain about  the indices. One caveat, I'd love to see a slightly more obtuse diamond for the Pip itself. I'd love to see the diamond stretched out a little to resemble the shape on the QoD and JoD. The pip feels a little like a Box on it's edge. Spacing from the art is pretty much spot on, easy to identify without encouraging a negative eye feel from too much negative space. I'll say it again, I'm loving this.

Thank you so much Fess for your kind words and feedback - truly glad to hear! :)
Good point you make about the diamond - don't want tilted boxes... Can I ask if you mean just the (floating) diamonds in the artwork - or the pips in the indices as well? I'm happy to play around with an elongated (stretched) diamond, though changing indices will affect the other 3 pips, to keep them all the same height (which may be a good change, I just want to make sure :))

Here is the King of Diamonds with elongated pips in the artwork:


and ... same shape diamonds, though here I've used the darkest colour in the palette (apart from black), similar to how the artwork pips appear in the suit of Hearts. I kind of feel this works and may give more distinction between artwork pips and indices - though always happy to hear your thoughts :) If this works, I'd probably change the artwork pips in the clubs as well ...



Thanks again for looking!
Annette :)



 

Re: From Whimsical Teapots to Playing Cards - The Beginning
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2016, 12:29:32 AM »
 

Fess

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I think this change to the pip works out well. The indices are alright now, in fact there is actually a bit of charm with them as they play against the pips on the court. Nice moves, I like it.  :D

Really it's your opinion that matters haha. I think you're designing a wonderful deck.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2016, 12:30:39 AM by Fess »
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Re: From Whimsical Teapots to Playing Cards - The Beginning
« Reply #33 on: August 13, 2016, 06:45:37 AM »
 

NineLives

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I think this change to the pip works out well. The indices are alright now, in fact there is actually a bit of charm with them as they play against the pips on the court. Nice moves, I like it.  :D

Really it's your opinion that matters haha. I think you're designing a wonderful deck.

Thank you Fess :) I am really enjoying working on this deck and have to say that you guys are providing fabulous feedback and pointers along the way, so keep those thoughts coming :)
 

Re: From Whimsical Teapots to Playing Cards - The Beginning
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2016, 02:51:13 AM »
 

NineLives

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Starting on the Spades ...


I’ve played around with two colour versions for the ‘floating spades’ within the artwork: dark vs light. Still not sure which one I’ll end up going with. My concern is that black spades on dark blue may ‘disappear’ too much in printing, but if the black/blue combination is printable I think it is my preferred one – what do you think?

Jack of Spades

In this one the floating spades are light blue:


... and here, they're black:


Queen of Spades

Same variations - first light blue spades:


... and black:


Thanks for looking!
Annette :)
« Last Edit: August 24, 2016, 02:54:14 AM by NineLives »
 

Re: From Whimsical Teapots to Playing Cards - The Beginning
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2016, 06:03:52 AM »
 

Cardfool

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Love the colors!  I think the light blue pips stand out better as opposed to the black pips, which kinda get lost in everything.

Keep up the great work! :)
 

Re: From Whimsical Teapots to Playing Cards - The Beginning
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2016, 07:00:54 AM »
 

Fess

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I agree the blue pips look great. I'm enjoying how this deck is evolving really good stuff.  :)
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Re: From Whimsical Teapots to Playing Cards - The Beginning
« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2016, 08:23:23 AM »
 

Anthony

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I've been sitting quietly, but I gotta say, just beautiful work, love the bold colors :)
 

Re: From Whimsical Teapots to Playing Cards - The Beginning
« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2016, 09:56:38 AM »
 

Eddie Hughlett

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Blue or black? I can't decide which I like best. So glad my decision will not be what color but how many decks to get! I can help that way.
 

Re: From Whimsical Teapots to Playing Cards - The Beginning
« Reply #39 on: August 25, 2016, 03:11:53 AM »
 

NineLives

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Love the colors!  I think the light blue pips stand out better as opposed to the black pips, which kinda get lost in everything.

Keep up the great work! :)

Thank you Cardfool - great feedback and you're right - contrast is better than lost pips  :)

I agree the blue pips look great. I'm enjoying how this deck is evolving really good stuff.  :)

Thanks Fess :) - light blue it is!

I've been sitting quietly, but I gotta say, just beautiful work, love the bold colors :)

Thank you Anthony - glad and humbled to hear :)

Blue or black? I can't decide which I like best. So glad my decision will not be what color but how many decks to get! I can help that way.

Aw thanks Eddie :) - truly appreciate the support!

I felt the Queen needed some work to give more contrast between the lighter pips and her hair - so before the King, here's the updated QoS:



*wave*
Annette :)
« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 03:13:28 AM by NineLives »
 

Re: From Whimsical Teapots to Playing Cards - The Beginning
« Reply #40 on: August 27, 2016, 01:44:56 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Try this as an experiment on that Queen - swap the dark blue color on the background with the light blue color of the in-art spade pips.  I think it might set off both the pips and the hair much better.
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Re: From Whimsical Teapots to Playing Cards - The Beginning
« Reply #41 on: August 28, 2016, 10:39:19 AM »
 

NineLives

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Try this as an experiment on that Queen - swap the dark blue color on the background with the light blue color of the in-art spade pips.  I think it might set off both the pips and the hair much better.

Thanks Don :) I tried the lighter background at the early stage of working out the spade palette, but it didn't really grab me  ::) I prefer a darker blue background, though I am definitely open to feedback, as finding a good balance between colours in a darker palette, while not compromising too much on contrast is an interesting challenge :)

Dark vs Light background comparisons for Jack and Queen:





And ... a quick test with a mid-blue background and black in-art spades:



Thanks for looking!
Annette :)
 

Re: From Whimsical Teapots to Playing Cards - The Beginning
« Reply #42 on: September 07, 2016, 12:36:16 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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The light blue background is a good choice, but the mid-blue might be the best.  It looks very good, providing the best way to show off the light and dark elements of the artwork.
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Re: From Whimsical Teapots to Playing Cards - The Beginning
« Reply #43 on: September 18, 2016, 12:24:27 PM »
 

NineLives

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The light blue background is a good choice, but the mid-blue might be the best.  It looks very good, providing the best way to show off the light and dark elements of the artwork.

Thanks Don for your feedback and so sorry it's taken forever to reply :)

It's been a while since I posted any updates ... I've been tweaking all the courts to bring them together and instead of boring you with a multitude of little changes I wanted to wait until I had a more complete look of the courts to share.

A change to the background and Floating Pips.

I settled on a very light blue for the artwork pips in the royal Spades - a contrast to the dark blue background ... yet, as most pips sit partly outside the background this light blue had way too little contrast against the white edge... To solve the contrast predicament I extended the background around all floating pips, which also feels like it brings everything together a bit more. The background is a royal tapestry with embroidered (or painted) suit symbols - with the focus  being on the royal faces in the foreground...

Introducing the King of Spades


 
Updating the Royal Cards









There will likely be a few more tweaks along the way - but at this stage I feel ready to move on to the Aces :)

Thanks for looking!
Annette :)
 

Re: From Whimsical Teapots to Playing Cards - The Beginning
« Reply #44 on: September 19, 2016, 06:31:45 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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It's definitely a unique and striking look - you could be onto a winner with this one!  Surrounding the pips looks a little strange at first, but there's no denying that it does make them stand out better.
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Re: From Whimsical Teapots to Playing Cards - The Beginning
« Reply #45 on: September 19, 2016, 10:05:09 AM »
 

Cardfool

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Overall, I agree with Don, you have a winner  :bosswalk:

I love this deck more and more...there is just one thing I would like to throw out there for consideration.  As you have decided to go the use a different color scheme for each suit, in line with no revoke decks, would you consider following traditional no revoke deck colouring scheme?  In other words, switch the clubs and diamonds so that the clubs are green and diamonds are yellow (or golden)?  Either way, I am definitely on board to support this deck...and not just one! 8)
« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 10:05:37 AM by Cardfool »
 

Re: From Whimsical Teapots to Playing Cards - The Beginning
« Reply #46 on: September 19, 2016, 12:30:59 PM »
 

NineLives

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It's definitely a unique and striking look - you could be onto a winner with this one!  Surrounding the pips looks a little strange at first, but there's no denying that it does make them stand out better.

Thanks so much Don :) I think I need to find a name for this baby soon or I'll be in trouble ...
The artwork pips have definitely been on a journey and if they stand out better without taking over too much, then I'm happy :)

Overall, I agree with Don, you have a winner  :bosswalk:

I love this deck more and more...there is just one thing I would like to throw out there for consideration.  As you have decided to go the use a different color scheme for each suit, in line with no revoke decks, would you consider following traditional no revoke deck colouring scheme?  In other words, switch the clubs and diamonds so that the clubs are green and diamonds are yellow (or golden)?  Either way, I am definitely on board to support this deck...and not just one! 8)


Thank you Cardfool :) I'll keep your suggestion in mind and might have a play with the colours. Rather than the traditional no revoke (or four colour) decks, I chose the colour scheme loosely based on the tarot - where Diaomonds/Pentacles have more green being connected to the Earth element - and Clubs/Rods have more yellow, being connected to the Fire element... That said, if tweaking the colour scheme would make more sense to playing card aficionados - I'm open to giving it a go :)

Have to say I really appreciate all your feedback and comments!
Annette :)
 

Re: From Whimsical Teapots to Playing Cards - The Beginning
« Reply #47 on: September 20, 2016, 03:11:12 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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It's definitely a unique and striking look - you could be onto a winner with this one!  Surrounding the pips looks a little strange at first, but there's no denying that it does make them stand out better.

Thanks so much Don :) I think I need to find a name for this baby soon or I'll be in trouble ...
The artwork pips have definitely been on a journey and if they stand out better without taking over too much, then I'm happy :)

Overall, I agree with Don, you have a winner  :bosswalk:

I love this deck more and more...there is just one thing I would like to throw out there for consideration.  As you have decided to go the use a different color scheme for each suit, in line with no revoke decks, would you consider following traditional no revoke deck colouring scheme?  In other words, switch the clubs and diamonds so that the clubs are green and diamonds are yellow (or golden)?  Either way, I am definitely on board to support this deck...and not just one! 8)


Thank you Cardfool :) I'll keep your suggestion in mind and might have a play with the colours. Rather than the traditional no revoke (or four colour) decks, I chose the colour scheme loosely based on the tarot - where Diaomonds/Pentacles have more green being connected to the Earth element - and Clubs/Rods have more yellow, being connected to the Fire element... That said, if tweaking the colour scheme would make more sense to playing card aficionados - I'm open to giving it a go :)

Have to say I really appreciate all your feedback and comments!
Annette :)

As far as a name, I think you're already there - Whimsy!

As far as fiddling the color scheme - don't sweat that too hard.  There are numerous different color patterns used to create no-revoke style decks and no official standard of any kind for what pips should be what colors.  Not to mention that you're only planning to use four different color schemes on the court cards, not the spot cards, so it's not a true no-revoke deck at all.  (Unless there's something I missed somewhere in the discussions about your deck?)

If you really wanted to make a deck that's both two-color AND at least in part a no-revoke deck, look at some of the work done by Brett Jones, a fellow Aussie, when he created his Whiteknuckle Cards (2010) and Jones Playing Cards (2016) decks.  The pips in his cards are over the top - every card has a unique pip design, done with the use of Celtic knot-style artwork drawn inside of them that varies from card to card.  While the pips still have their overall traditional colors of red and black, he added subtle additional colors like purple, blue, green, etc., using a different color pattern for each pip shape, thus making a deck that's both two-color and no-revoke after a fashion.  While you don't have to follow his cue (he drew every single pip, index, face, etc. all by hand!), there are ways you can add some detail to the traditional pip shapes and colors to make the red pips more distinct from each other as well as as the black pips.
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Re: From Whimsical Teapots to Playing Cards - The Beginning
« Reply #48 on: September 20, 2016, 12:53:47 PM »
 

NineLives

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Thanks Don :)

and ... for the name suggestion too :) I have a few that have been jumping around in my head for a while - and somewhere it's about finding the one that sticks...

At the moment, my favourite name is 'Harlequin' - I don't know if it's possible though given that a deck with that name came out in the early 1900s... I even thought about running a poll here - but my jumbled ideas may be more confusing than helpful  ???

There will be colour and detail in both aces and pips (or spot cards) - I'm drawing aces at the moment (nothing scanned as yet..) - update to follow soon :)
Indices will be traditional black and red and while I'm not aiming for a 'no revoke' deck, I want to be sure that there won't be any confusion for players.

Brett Jones work is lovely and the detail, while subtle, is really something :)




 

Re: From Whimsical Teapots to Playing Cards - The Beginning
« Reply #49 on: September 21, 2016, 07:01:43 PM »
 

Helshawk

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this is turning out great.  It started as wonderful and has moved into full-blown magnificence. I like the suggestion put forth by Don calling this deck "Whimsy."  But, I'd love to hear what other ideas you might have besides Harlequin.