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Art Fighters Playing Card Company - do your research.

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Art Fighters Playing Card Company - do your research.
« on: October 28, 2011, 11:07:55 AM »
 

CBJ

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Another company has thrown their hat into the mix.

And they have an odd policy...

Sit down people... here we go..

Q. What is the "back-to-sealed" policy?
A. The Back-To-Sealedâ„¢ policy is a unique policy for our valuable decks of cards. It means that you can open and use your deck, send it back to us to have it destroyed, and get a new, sealed deck so that it retains its value. This way you do not have to worry about your deck losing its value once you would open it. The number stands for the maximum amount of times and years that you can use this policy.

WTF??  Seriously?

So, let's look at some stuff from the site...
http://afpcc.itsesproductions.com/index.html

A few of the sections are up, most importantly the playing card section.
COMPASS 822 by mismag822



Not bad.

MIRACLES decks


5 different colors, with borders and borderless...  god, here comes another flood of cards.
I like the back design, but 10 decks of it is WAY too much
And for some reason, there's a 2nd Edition of this deck already listed on the site.

If you want to buy these I hope you're still sitting down...  they're going to be pricey.
How do I know?? Look at the FAQ.
Q. Why do the playing cards cost so much?
A. Unfortunately, this is exactly what the cards cost to produce. With the exception of the Miracles 1st Edition cards, all of the decks are printed in rather small amounts of 1000 decks each. This, including the costs to have the decks shipped from the card manufacturers abroad to us, makes the decks as expensive as they are. We hope to produce cheaper decks in the future, but this all depends on the overall popularity of the first, more exclusive runs.

and
Q. Why does Shipping & Handling cost so much?
A. Shipping & Handling is a combination of shipping costs, packaging costs, payment service fees and a wage for one person to ship out each and every order. We tried to keep the costs as low as legally possible. Something that could make these costs seem rather high too, is the fact that we are located in The Netherlands instead of in the United States.

Any company that feels the need to post these Q&As BEFORE the decks even go on sale, already knows that their price point is WAYYY to high.

Anyway, just thought I'd let you guys know.  Poke around the site

Sorry for such a long post

Enjoy

CBJ

« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 10:49:24 AM by CBJ »
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Re: Art Fighters Playing Card Company
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2011, 11:17:23 AM »
 

phantom1412

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I saw in the site you gave that miracle deck are made in Germany.
So, it won't be a good decks as uspcc decks.

I'm gonna pass on this.
 

Re: Art Fighters Playing Card Company
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2011, 11:59:59 AM »
 

Kanped

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I only have one deck of German cards but the stock is IMO nicer than anything from the US.  The finish won't be good for most people, though.  Put it this way; it'd be great for playing poker on a bare wooden table.
 

Re: Art Fighters Playing Card Company
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2011, 01:33:16 PM »
 

dee1orean

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Might have to get some of those borderless miracles decks. Especially the red.   8)
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 01:35:01 PM by dee1orean »
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Re: Art Fighters Playing Card Company
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2011, 02:30:43 PM »
 

xela

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I actually posted the Miracle deck on UC about a year ago. The Mark had in mind was to print five decks, charge up the butt for them, and give you lifetime resealing.

Now the Mismag822 deck isn't really a Mismag822 deck unless he designed it. If he did, I'll buy the cards to support him. If he just had someone make a workable playing card design, then that's not something I find genuinely useful.

I'll be avoiding the Miracle deck if only because their only selling point is "rare! limited!" Nothing is customized outside of the backs either it seems. Admittedly I'd love a deck with the red back, but I'll pass.

Furthermore if the cards are printed in Mark's country then obviously shipping prices to get them to him aren't high. From my experience USPCC ships anywhere in the world for free if you print cards with them.

EDIT: It looks like as of now Mark is sticking with the five-deck business plan:

"Quantity
Only 5 decks available on the market
20,000 decks in total (limited)
(3,000 decks per color with border/
1,000 decks per color without border)"
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 02:33:32 PM by alex. »
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Re: Art Fighters Playing Card Company
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2011, 02:56:03 PM »
 

Evan

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The backs of the decks looks nice but the fronts, not so much.
 

Re: Art Fighters Playing Card Company
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2011, 03:07:45 PM »
 

sinsandman

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I am curious about these decks...still undecided as to what they really are or if they will be worth whatever they charge. The back design isn't too back and 1000 runs always catch my attention. But, as of now I am undecided. This is the first I have ever seen or heard of them, so thank you for showing us.
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Re: Art Fighters Playing Card Company
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2011, 03:32:39 PM »
 

D_bag

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Did you guys check out the about section of the site?

I think I found all the subliminal card message references  :D

I think one of the card decks this is subliminally telling you is that it's like the smoke and mirrors. There is an S and M on the deck and believe it or not that was my first thoughts of this deck. And when you think smoke and mirrors you think awsomeness. Subliminal sales tactic perhaps?

Have fun finding the rest
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 03:41:06 PM by D_bag »
 

Re: Art Fighters Playing Card Company
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2011, 03:37:23 PM »
 

sinsandman

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What subliminal card message references are you referring to?
Magical as Sin!
 

Re: Art Fighters Playing Card Company
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2011, 03:40:15 PM »
 

D_bag

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There is quite a bit, or it can be a coincidence. I edited my previous post and you might agree with me.
 

Re: Art Fighters Playing Card Company
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2011, 03:43:53 PM »
 

sinsandman

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Ok you cannot possible compare these nothing decks to the amazing Smoke and Mirrors. If they are doing so consciously, then they are messing up!
Magical as Sin!
 

Re: Art Fighters Playing Card Company
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2011, 03:46:41 PM »
 

John B.

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the design is not good enough to be expensive even if i can get a new free one.
Do you guys even read this? Like I could have the meaning of life here and I doubt you would know it.
 

Re: Art Fighters Playing Card Company
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2011, 03:58:47 PM »
 

D_bag

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Ok you cannot possible compare these nothing decks to the amazing Smoke and Mirrors. If they are doing so consciously, then they are messing up!

Well the back design is completly different from the smokes. The s and the m might not possibly have even crossed our minds. But I know what I thought and I think smoke and mirrors when I see this very different deck.

 

Re: Art Fighters Playing Card Company
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2011, 01:03:41 AM »
 

CBJ

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The site is now live!

http://afpcc.itsesproductions.com/index.html

CBJ

EDIT:

$500 decks??  and $5000 decks??

WTF!
« Last Edit: October 31, 2011, 01:10:48 AM by Curt »
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Re: Art Fighters Playing Card Company
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2011, 01:13:53 AM »
 

Curt


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Haha, ya....thats a pretty penny right there. Looks like they have sold one of them already for $250; curious to see if any of the others sell.
 

Re: Art Fighters Playing Card Company
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2011, 01:27:48 AM »
 

xela

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The hilarious part is that if you select the option for "envelope" that fits up to eight decks, they still charge you more money for every additional deck you want over one.

I'll pass on laughable attempt to create some kind of "rare" deck and steal money by charging triple what it costs to actually ship something.

I love mismag822, his videos are great and the guy seems genuinely nice; I think he just chose the wrong way to get his custom deck made.
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Re: Art Fighters Playing Card Company
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2011, 01:51:44 AM »
 

John B.

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wow $250 for that much i can get all the decks over and some back ups of each.
Do you guys even read this? Like I could have the meaning of life here and I doubt you would know it.
 

Re: Art Fighters Playing Card Company
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2011, 07:39:38 PM »
 

vmagic

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Well I preorder some of the Mismag cards, it says they are his official cards on the box and were designed by that Mark guy who i've seen on Youtube before. I like how they made the court cards faceless like Mismag! But the other cards, forget about it, and it only shows 4 in stock! Who the hell would pay that much for some cards that are worthless imo.
 

Re: Art Fighters Playing Card Company
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2011, 07:45:45 PM »
 

loldudex2

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Well I preorder some of the Mismag cards, it says they are his official cards on the box and were designed by that Mark guy who i've seen on Youtube before. I like how they made the court cards faceless like Mismag! But the other cards, forget about it, and it only shows 4 in stock! Who the hell would pay that much for some cards that are worthless imo.

It also sucks that each deck get increasingly more pricey, and you can only get 1 color deck. That means you will NEVER have a complete set.
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Re: Art Fighters Playing Card Company
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2011, 10:57:34 AM »
 

Mystery

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I think this is going to be a long post, but it seems that apart from our own community, no one on the internet actually gets what we are doing at the AFPCC.

I'll do my very best to get back to everything that needs to be cleared up in this thread. Reason is that a couple of you guys even e-mailed us and started yelling about how we are nuts and don't know how to do business. Oh, the internet and the joy it brings.

Let's begin with replying to some quotes:
Quote
Any company that feels the need to post these Q&As BEFORE the decks even go on sale, already knows that their price point is WAYYY to high.
The Q&A was not exactly made beforehand. We have had a website (not yet a card company) for the past 2-3 years with our concept on there. In those years a lot of questions have been asked. The FAQ actually gives full transparancy, which I understand is pretty odd for any company but so be it. I personally think not a bad word could be said about that.

Quote
I saw in the site you gave that miracle deck are made in Germany.
So, it won't be a good decks as uspcc decks.
I wouldn't say they are superior (although the stock and finish have been fully customized to my needs and wants so for me it would actually be), but they are definitely not worse than USPCC cards. Seems like a myth that needs to be cleared up.

Quote
From my experience USPCC ships anywhere in the world for free if you print cards with them.
They do not, and even if they would, there still is a lot of customs clearance added to the decks.

Quote
I think one of the card decks this is subliminally telling you is that it's like the smoke and mirrors. There is an S and M on the deck and believe it or not that was my first thoughts of this deck. And when you think smoke and mirrors you think awsomeness. Subliminal sales tactic perhaps?
The subliminal messages we meant are the ones that show the card industry went a little gaga such as the prices. Nonetheless, it is really fun that you noticed it because yes, indeed, the S and M symbols do have some subliminal meanings such as street magic and smoke and mirrors (don't forget smoke and mirrors aren't only the playing cards by D&D).

Quote
The hilarious part is that if you select the option for "envelope" that fits up to eight decks, they still charge you more money for every additional deck you want over one.
Alex, I honestly am a little disgusted by the way you are talking about our business. I would not talk about your business like that either. In reply to the quote, I am pretty sure that in every country on this globe, shipping costs are relying on weight and not just on packaging. One or two decks weigh much less than seven or eight decks, so obviously the shipping will be more expensive for the latter ones. Still, we are not joking if we say we kept the prices as low as legally possible. We break even on it.

Now, for the rest of things that need to be cleared up:

Miracles playing cards were not actually supposed to be marketed. We made ourselves a lifelong stock and we merely sell some just to make a point on how prices of playing cards went on a loose the past few years. The prices of the Miracles (and of the Miracles only) work exactly the same as the prices of Jerry's Nuggets, Ghost 1st Editions, Smoke & Mirrors, Gold Arcanes, and such cards. Yet, there are thousands of those decks on the market, and only five decks of original Miracles.

But we are not crazy. Of course we expected a flood of people that would actually fall over the prices, which is why we announced a much more affordable version of the deck that will be printed at the USPCC next year. And we won't release all colors at once, don't worry about that. It will be just one at a time.

The original Miracles come with a lot of very original extras though. Sure there are people that are willing to buy a deck of $250 or $500 just because of those. We, however, do not expect to sell the more expensive ones. Those five decks are not supposed to be sold out at anytime.

I hope that clears things up a little.

-Mark
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 05:01:08 PM by Mystery »
 

Re: Art Fighters Playing Card Company
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2011, 12:33:45 AM »
 

CBJ

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Mystery

Just like I wrote on UC

Please note that I actually started this thread.. so I did have interest in your company...

But now... Plain and simple... it smells fishy.

You sound like a snake oil salesman trying to convince people that this really works.

I buy a lot of different cards, from a lot of different companies.  I'm going to pass on all your decks, and your company... permanently.

And, I'm going to suggest to anyone else I talk to about cards to do the same.

I don't trust the idea, I don't trust your company, and I don't trust you.

I would highly recommend that the forum stay away from this START-UP company that guarantees they will be in business over 20 years from now.  A company that has currently sold 14 decks of cards from their site.

CBJ
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Re: Art Fighters Playing Card Company - STAY AWAY FROM THEM
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2011, 01:16:06 AM »
 

xela

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Mark you shouldn't be shipping USPCC decks to yourself, and then back to the US. That's insane. I understand if you have no other recourse, but here in the US, shipping is not dependent on weight for things like cards it is dependent on the box you opt for. You get a weight limit with each box, and everyone here ships up to 48 decks extremely cheaply.

Other countries are of little concern to me, since paying extra for shipping to get a USPCC deck in the United States isn't something I'd buy into.

As I stated before, I can respect your products and mission statement, but the tactics I do disagree with. Thank you for not lambasting my company, but I would like to point out that if you tried to, you'd have a difficult time finding any fishy aspects to have a go at.

Good luck though! I have no ill-will for you. =]
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Re: Art Fighters Playing Card Company - STAY AWAY FROM THEM
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2011, 03:55:15 AM »
 

Kanped

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CBJ; if you're going to call them out like that, you should provide evidence.

Like the fact that what sparked off the creation of the company was an experimental con job trying to sell fake Jerry's Nuggets, essentially meaning that the company was set up after realizing that they could profit from something worthless.

EDIT:

Now, you have stated that you 'don't need to worry about losing the value of the deck by opening it'  No, you don't; because there is no resale value and that's the problem with your whole system.  If I buy a sealed Jerry's deck, I can still open them, use them until I'm done with them and resell for a portion of what was originally paid.  They may cost $250 but I can get some of the back.  Same with any limited/rare deck.  With your deck, I can't sell them after use, I just get a new version of the deck back.  No resell value.  Where does the resale value go?  You destroy it upon returning the deck; what a pointless waste.  I mean, given the option, who the hell would take your back-to-sealed offer up if they could just buy the cards outright?  It costs you exactly the same money to do that; your business plan is insane.

Also, your political message in regards to the deck seems to me to be magicians just being so fucking precious about 'the magic'.

« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 06:51:29 AM by Kanped »
 

Re: Art Fighters Playing Card Company
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2011, 09:46:23 AM »
 

Mystery

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CBJ, for someone who laughed when I said you made yourself guilty of libel, you should be ashamed of yourself for 1) going around telling people to stay away from our company and 2) even putting it in capital letters in the title of this thread. That, Sir, is libel.

As said on UC, you go around "warning people" based on something you don't understand, disagree with or find fishy, forgetting that you are dealing with a company selling and sending out products for more than five years (hell, we even sold decks in the past, just not our own, and there are YouTube videos to back that up too). That you personally don't trust us, fine, but that you go around telling others to not trust us based on your own, distorted feelings is not. A big factor of libel is whether it is the truth or not, because if it is, it would be a valid warning instead. But in your case it is not and you have nothing to rely on either, and thus what you are doing here is prohibited by law and should be taken care of.

Quote
Now, you have stated that you 'don't need to worry about losing the value of the deck by opening it'  No, you don't; because there is no resale value and that's the problem with your whole system.  If I buy a sealed Jerry's deck, I can still open them, use them until I'm done with them and resell for a portion of what was originally paid.  They may cost $250 but I can get some of the back.  Same with any limited/rare deck.  With your deck, I can't sell them after use, I just get a new version of the deck back.  No resell value.  Where does the resale value go?  You destroy it upon returning the deck; what a pointless waste.  I mean, given the option, who the hell would take your back-to-sealed offer up if they could just buy the cards outright?  It costs you exactly the same money to do that; your business plan is insane.
You are missing the fact that there is a price to the plan you paid. You could still resell the deck like any other deck of cards as there are still only five on the market at most. You don't actually have to use the policy either.

Quote
Also, your political message in regards to the deck seems to me to be magicians just being so fucking precious about 'the magic'.
Seems like you understood it correctly then. We can't be blamed for the fact you don't care as much about the art as we do though.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 09:47:43 AM by Mystery »
 

Re: Art Fighters Playing Card Company - STAY AWAY FROM THEM
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2011, 09:55:56 AM »
 

John B.

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So what cbj said was that he suggested staying away from them due to the fact that you guys seem fishy, also I am not going to pay $250 for a deck of from some company that i never heard over no matter how great you make it sound, the design is nice but not $250 worth in my opinion. also I personally will not buy from out of the U.S. my self just because then I have international shipping.
Do you guys even read this? Like I could have the meaning of life here and I doubt you would know it.