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Fraud Alert Topic - Post Ripoffs and Counterfeits Here

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Fraud Alert Topic - Post Ripoffs and Counterfeits Here
« on: December 24, 2013, 01:41:24 AM »
 

shineleon

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Hi guys, my name is Hu Shan Liang (Derek Hu), i'm from China. I posted a thread on unitedcardits.com back on Dec 13th trying to look for a set of David Blaine split spades decks in bee box. Same thread has been posted here. A day later, a man (who actually doesn’t deserve to be called a man) who claimed himself as Alim Mohammed coming from Birmingham, UK came emailing me asking for a trade/barter. Then we started negotiating what we both want and how and when the barter can be done. We exchanged details including names, cellphone no.s address and pics of the decks we were going to send to each other. After couple of rounds of emails, we reached an agreement that each party ships the package and emails the other the tracking no and pics of the package. Then on 17th, as promised, I shipped 4 decks of cage gardens including 2 whites and 2 blacks via DHL and emailed him all information. In return, he was going to ship 1 red rounders, 2 magic con 2011, 1 signed DD bee deck and 1 red artifice. But he never showed up since 19th after he sent me an email saying he would ship during lunch break. I checked with DHL that the package has been signed by him yesterday. I tried call him several times but he hung up quick. I’ve already reported a fraud to the UK police and I’m required to provide more information and evidence to assist the investigation.

guys, pls be very careful doing business with strangers cuz we don't know who's the big bad wolf!

Hey, Alim, if you’re looking and listening, I hope you sleep well. Cuz I’m not going to let you get away with this!

His email: mo_alim90@hotmail.com
Mine: hushanliang@gmail.com

PS, I shipped the package via an agent of DHL to save cost, it was transferred to DHL in HK and left for UK. here're the screenshots.
 

Re: [CAUTION REQUIRED]Fraudster in Birmingham UK
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2013, 02:29:32 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Due to the nature of your post, I will allow your topic to remain here.

For the future, however, be advised that members must meet certain minimum standards before posting on the STISO board:

1) read the rules,
2) be a member for seven days
3) have a post count number of at least 25 (posts to LOLAQ, Support and spam posts don't count)
4) have a reputation score of at least 1.

For replies to this post, contact the poster via PM please.  If you wish to continue the topic, please start a topic in the LOLAQ.  When your minimums have been met, remind me and I'll move the topic here, where it belongs in the long run.

Yes, this ruling sounds odd.  But it's the first time I've run into this kind of situation so I'm working off the cuff.  I'll consult with the other staffers and come up with a better solution than this ASAP.

EDIT: solution found.  We have a new board for posting about frauds, as a daughter board of the STISO.  There are NO MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS to post there, and posts don't count toward your post total.  I'm moving this topic there to be the inaugural topic.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2013, 02:53:22 AM by Don Boyer »
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Fraud Alert Topic - Post Ripoffs and Counterfeits Here
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2013, 03:01:51 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Welcome to the new Fraud Alert Topic.  Found a retailer selling a fake product?  An eBay seller who doesn't deliver?  Someone who says they're sending you one thing, but sends something different and won't refund you or send the right stuff?  This is the place to post about it.

The rules are simple:
1) Be truthful.
2) Be as objective and neutral as you can when describing events.
3) Obey any applicable laws regarding libel or defamation of character.  Avoid derogatory remarks about any person and remain focused on the facts that occurred.
4) Only post topics about deals gone bad if it resulted in you personally suffering a loss of money or merchandise.  Don't make topics about someone else's deal - first-hand accounts only.
5) Screen captures of package tracking results are recommended when they indicate delivery of goods to the defrauding party.  Also useful would be PayPal "payment sent" screens, redacted as needed to keep your personal information private.
6) Counterfeit decks certainly belong here - but be sure they are indeed counterfeit or fraudulent in some manner.  A new Bicycle deck with a 100-year-old tax stamp would work, as would a bogus copy of a gaff deck or a Jerry's Nugget - but be ready to provide visual proof of the fraud.
7) UPLOAD YOUR IMAGES AND TAKE SCREEN GRABS OF WEB PAGES in addition to posting links.  If you just post a link to a sales page, that page could disappear tomorrow and now you have nothing.

Contact me via PM if you have suggestions or ideas regarding this topic.

The management of this board is in no way responsible for the posts placed here.  We do not determine the truthfulness or faslehood of any statements made within.  When trading, do your own due diligence, and if a trade or sale doesn't feel right in any way, don't do it, period.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2014, 10:06:33 AM by Don Boyer »
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[eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2013, 01:10:55 PM »
 

FrenchFryNecromancer

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I would advise to avoid buying from this ebay seller (rareangpow) from Malaysia.
I tried reporting him on eBay about a year ago but eBay continues to allow him to sell....... which is a shame.

I have purchased from him in the past and received 1 brick of UltraGaff and 1 brick of the Ultimate Marked Deck.
They both turned out to be counterfeit.
I believe his organization looks for cards that sell well in the United States, and then they try to print up a bunch of copies and sell them on eBay to essentially print their own money.

I could tell these decks were cheap knockoffs upon further inspection because of poor printing quality when compared with the original deck (UltraGaff).  Also they just felt different.  The tuck box felt extremely flimsy.  The cards felt weird and sand-papery.  Very close, but something was clearly wrong.

I had posted this information a while back on UnitedCardists before it switched from UnitedCardists.net to UnitedCardists.com.  So my post is gone now.  I had put up a lot of detailed photos comparing the counterfeit cards with the originals.  (In the case of the UltraGaff deck, which I have readily available for comparison).

After noticing this I looked at what else he was selling......
This Rareangpow seller always seems to have real high quantities of extremely rare decks
Just look at his items for sale.  It's ridiculous.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/rareangpow/m.html?item=121230384979&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c39e4df53&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

Scarlet Madison Rounders - "more than 10 available".
Blue Madison Rounders - 10 available.
Red Artifice Decks - 10 available.
Black Artifice Decks - "more than 10 available".   ---  OH REALLY?  I thought these were limited to 3 a person?
Sultan Treasure - 10 available.

Kinda strange.  Seems like he always has at least "10 available" of each of these....  suspicious?   Warning signs going off?
Sad thing is these counterfeit decks are being bought by unsuspecting buyers and have probably already permeated the market by now.

I just wanted to spread the word.  I seriously do not recommend buying from this guy.
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2013, 01:56:23 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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We have a new daughterboard for these kinds of fraud alerts.  I'm moving your post there.
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2013, 06:15:25 PM »
 

Jonathan

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I've seen his listings on eBay; some of them are asking for rather high amounts of money too.
To think they're fake is sad.
Don, do you know if there are many realistic fakes out there? I thought that USPCC quality and designs were pretty hard to counterfeit. I've bought cards from sellers in singapore and hong kong and wasn't too worried about them being fakes at the time because I thought noone could dupe USPCC's stuff.
 

Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2013, 12:18:24 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I've seen his listings on eBay; some of them are asking for rather high amounts of money too.
To think they're fake is sad.
Don, do you know if there are many realistic fakes out there? I thought that USPCC quality and designs were pretty hard to counterfeit. I've bought cards from sellers in singapore and hong kong and wasn't too worried about them being fakes at the time because I thought noone could dupe USPCC's stuff.

Before I even started posting here, I was assisting Bill Schildman in tracking down retailers in my area selling Chinese-made Bee forgeries.  Alex has also mentioned before that the printers making fake Jerry's Nuggets have actually improved the process - they're not the real thing by far, but they're not cheapa$$ pieces of cardboard, either.

Bill Kalush showed me an authentic Bee deck made for the Chinese market.  The cellophane wrapper is etched with a repeating, holographic pattern of the name and the logo of the deck.  They do that as a protective measure against counterfeiting, since copying holograms isn't an easy process in the least, though one can make something appear to be holographic that actually isn't (I've seen this done on forged credit cards).

The short answer is yes, it's relatively simple to present something that looks like a USPC product, and there are factories doing just that.
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2013, 01:31:12 AM »
 

phantom1412

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I heard that there are fake ultragaffs out there. Those ultragaffs he is selling might be fake. But I don't think the other decks are fake too. Just my opinion anyway.
 

Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2013, 01:49:03 AM »
 

FrenchFryNecromancer

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It just seems like a lot of signs pointing towards fraud.  One sign is he sold me counterfeit ultra gaffs.  The other sign is the sheer quantity of ultra rare decks he is selling.  How do you explain "more than 10" quantity of black artifice decks?  Those are limited to 3 or 4 decks per member of the black club.  I find it highly unlikely that he bought that many of them off other people only to resell them at about the going rate.  Plus 10 sultan treasury decks?  A lot of these are limited to being able to get only one for some promotion.  It seems ridiculous that he would have that many.

At one point I saw him selling a whole brick of if an octopus could palm decks (dan and Dave).... And the only way to get one of those is to buy their $75 book and get the deck included.  So he spent $75 x 12 decks to purchase all those?  Highly unlikely.

It seems more likely he is printing counterfeits and selling them as if they were the real thing.
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2013, 02:14:09 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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It seems more likely he is printing counterfeits and selling them as if they were the real thing.

...or (if I was to play "Devil's Advocate") perhaps he's a not-so-knowledgeable retailer buying counterfeits because he doesn't know any better, thinks they're real and was offered a great deal.  Either way, though, it's not a good sign.

Rick Harrison, partner/owner of the Gold & Silver Pawn Shop in Las Vegas, NV and star of the History Channel TV series "Pawn Stars", is fond of saying that he will never sell fakes of anything in his shop.  The reason for this is that it only takes one fake item being discovered to destroy the shop's reputation as a seller of authentic antiques and collectible merchandise - suddenly every single item he's sold would get called into question, because if he did it once, how can one know whether he didn't do it many more times?  He won't even accept fakes as "reproduction" or "replica" items, considering the risk to be too high.  The one time I recall seeing him accept something that wasn't genuine was a famous person's autograph - and that's because the forger who created it is a known historical figure in his own right, so in that case, it's not simply a fake celebrity's autograph, but a forgery created by a master of forgery, making that the reason it's both historical and authentic in a different sense - it's a genuine creation of the forger.

There's a reason why his business is a multimillion dollar operation - and that's a large part of it.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 02:15:16 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2013, 02:59:26 AM »
 

Jonathan

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The short answer is yes, it's relatively simple to present something that looks like a USPC product, and there are factories doing just that.

Thanks Don.
Mmm I remember reading about bee forgeries and them being listed as distributed by a particular company I forget the name now.
What I was meaning is if you opened a box of chinese made forgeries, would they actually pass for USPCC's cards finish and handling wise, not just if you saw a fake and a real one on the shelf.
I was recently in Hong Kong and someone told me about the chinese made jerry's nuggets for sale - their shop owner was upfront and said they're chinese made replicas so I bought one anyway and opened it - it actually handles pretty well but I've never handled real nuggets so I can't compare.
 

Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2013, 05:50:52 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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The short answer is yes, it's relatively simple to present something that looks like a USPC product, and there are factories doing just that.

Thanks Don.
Mmm I remember reading about bee forgeries and them being listed as distributed by a particular company I forget the name now.
What I was meaning is if you opened a box of chinese made forgeries, would they actually pass for USPCC's cards finish and handling wise, not just if you saw a fake and a real one on the shelf.
I was recently in Hong Kong and someone told me about the chinese made jerry's nuggets for sale - their shop owner was upfront and said they're chinese made replicas so I bought one anyway and opened it - it actually handles pretty well but I've never handled real nuggets so I can't compare.

Most Bee forgeries are made cheaply - if they were going to replicate the quality that closely, why bother copying Bees when you could make your own brand?  They forge Bees cheaply because they undercut the price of the real thing, thus making them more attractive to customers - at least until they open the box.

For Jerry's Nuggets, people have gotten better at spotting the fakes so they had to raise the quality.  It's worth it to spend a little extra for a higher-quality forgery because of the prices the decks get in the open market.  I wouldn't be surprised if they grabbed information off of sites like this one to find more detailed information about what the genuine article looks like, right down to the way you can tell a genuine box from a fake - thus making their fakes more like the real thing to an unsuspecting customer who also knows this information.  As I see it, the only way to be certain you get the real thing is through a reliable source, such as Lee Asher, the Blue Crown or Dan and Dave.

The company sticker you remember seeing is "Connell Bros." - they were actually importing Bee decks perhaps a decade or so ago through Hong Kong, I believe, but not any longer.  Forgers still use the stickers now and then.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 05:53:26 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2013, 12:26:18 PM »
 

Jonathan

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The company sticker you remember seeing is "Connell Bros." - they were actually importing Bee decks perhaps a decade or so ago through Hong Kong, I believe, but not any longer.  Forgers still use the stickers now and then.

Yeah you're right that was them! Your breadth of knowledge never ceases to amaze.
Yeah I looked up bee forgeries because in my wanderings through Hong Kong I found bee decks for 1 USD in a random market stall (the stall was selling random goods like electronics and battteries and stuff) I bought a red and a blue one and opened em up to compare to some other bees I had. The ones I found in the market had the Connell Bros sticker on them but the cards inside handled just like real bees and the AoS and tuck box all seemed to be either legit or really, really good copies haha. I still don't know if they're real or not haha.
 

Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2013, 02:43:04 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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The company sticker you remember seeing is "Connell Bros." - they were actually importing Bee decks perhaps a decade or so ago through Hong Kong, I believe, but not any longer.  Forgers still use the stickers now and then.

Yeah you're right that was them! Your breadth of knowledge never ceases to amaze.
Yeah I looked up bee forgeries because in my wanderings through Hong Kong I found bee decks for 1 USD in a random market stall (the stall was selling random goods like electronics and battteries and stuff) I bought a red and a blue one and opened em up to compare to some other bees I had. The ones I found in the market had the Connell Bros sticker on them but the cards inside handled just like real bees and the AoS and tuck box all seemed to be either legit or really, really good copies haha. I still don't know if they're real or not haha.

If they were fakes, you'd KNOW.  The Bee fakes are of terrible quality.  You may have gotten lucky and picked up some "old new stock" - old goods that sat in storage somewhere for an extended time and is still in unopened, new condition.
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2013, 07:04:33 PM »
 

yoel

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The company sticker you remember seeing is "Connell Bros." - they were actually importing Bee decks perhaps a decade or so ago through Hong Kong, I believe, but not any longer.  Forgers still use the stickers now and then.

Yeah you're right that was them! Your breadth of knowledge never ceases to amaze.
Yeah I looked up bee forgeries because in my wanderings through Hong Kong I found bee decks for 1 USD in a random market stall (the stall was selling random goods like electronics and battteries and stuff) I bought a red and a blue one and opened em up to compare to some other bees I had. The ones I found in the market had the Connell Bros sticker on them but the cards inside handled just like real bees and the AoS and tuck box all seemed to be either legit or really, really good copies haha. I still don't know if they're real or not haha.

If they were fakes, you'd KNOW.  The Bee fakes are of terrible quality.  You may have gotten lucky and picked up some "old new stock" - old goods that sat in storage somewhere for an extended time and is still in unopened, new condition.

The Krauzers near me sells Authentic Bee's but they were made for the chinese market. I don't have a deck on hand but they have AdCards that are in chinese and they handle just like any other Bee's.  The dollar store right next door sells the knockoff ones with the "Connell Bros" logo and they are crap. 

Though here is a little secret of mine.. I use a standard bee deck and I replace one card with one of the fakes and at least for me I can catch the fake one when I riffle or dribble through because of the difference in the stock and I use it as a force card.
 

Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2013, 02:44:31 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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The Krauzers near me sells Authentic Bee's but they were made for the chinese market. I don't have a deck on hand but they have AdCards that are in chinese and they handle just like any other Bee's.  The dollar store right next door sells the knockoff ones with the "Connell Bros" logo and they are crap. 

Though here is a little secret of mine.. I use a standard bee deck and I replace one card with one of the fakes and at least for me I can catch the fake one when I riffle or dribble through because of the difference in the stock and I use it as a force card.

Bees made for sale in China or anywhere else in Asia have a gold frame on the box.  I've never seen Chinese ad cards inside, but I don't own that many gold-border Bee decks, so anything's possible.

That's a clever idea about using the bogus card as a forcing card - but if I were the one you were performing for, I'd probably catch it.  I know too much about the cards these days.  Your average Joe or Jane on the street might be more easily fooled, since most of them don't think twice about playing cards.

We've been having a merry old time with this tangent, but let's stick to the topic - "rareangpow" from eBay.
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2013, 03:02:50 AM »
 

Sher143

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I'm so glad I came across this thread. At least now I know to be wary. I actually have several items on my watch list from this seller, but I luckily haven't bought anything from him/her yet.
 

Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2013, 05:59:19 AM »
 

Yashi

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Wow, thanks for the warning. I was just about to buy his brick of JAQK Cellars and I was determined. Now I'm skeptical. But it's hard to believe that all the decks he's selling is counterfeit. He could have made it a bit cheaper to attract more people.
 

Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2013, 06:14:03 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Wow, thanks for the warning. I was just about to buy his brick of JAQK Cellars and I was determined. Now I'm skeptical. But it's hard to believe that all the decks he's selling is counterfeit. He could have made it a bit cheaper to attract more people.

The man is shipping from Malaysia, and he's undercutting even some American sellers.  He had to pay extra just to get it sent to him in the first place.  It is indeed possible that not all of his products are forged, but if it looks like a pig, sounds like a pig, smells like a pig, feels like a pig and tastes like a pig, it's not likely to be a giraffe.  If someone sells even one forgery, it makes you wonder what other stock he has that's forged.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 06:19:48 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2013, 07:11:34 AM »
 

Yashi

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Yeah. I'd like to know eBay's response to the matter though.
 

Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2013, 07:26:40 AM »
 

Sher143

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I was looking through some of the stuff he had on sale and I think what puts the guard down for most consumers are the non-stock photos of the decks,  which make it seem like the seller has the original deck in question. However,  I've seen this happen many times,  where the seller uses the non-stock photo of another eBay seller. For the JAQKs (or any other deck,  really),  the photos may have been taken from another seller,  which is why the listing looks legit. 
 

Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2013, 08:05:40 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Yeah. I'd like to know eBay's response to the matter though.

Well, FFN was the original complainant on this topic - it would be a matter of whether or not he reported it to eBay.  No report, no response.
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2013, 01:06:45 PM »
 

FrenchFryNecromancer

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Wow, thanks for the warning. I was just about to buy his brick of JAQK Cellars and I was determined. Now I'm skeptical. But it's hard to believe that all the decks he's selling is counterfeit. He could have made it a bit cheaper to attract more people.

Personally, I will never deal with him again.  You get burned once, and its just not worth the effort of going through the whole eBay / PayPal resolution process again.  (What a time suck that was.)

I can't trust anyone who is selling something like a brick of "If An Octopus Could Palm" decks every single week.  It just doesn't make sense because it is not possible to get that many and sell them for so low.  MAYBE....  if you see one or two doubtful auctions here and there.  But... when you look at all the auctions he is listing as a whole, its just absurd.

I'm sure some of his items are genuine.  I imagine he (they?) have to first buy one of the original items, so they can study and scan images of it in order to create realistic counterfeits.  At some point he is going to want to sell the original item back on eBay when he is finished with it.  But, there will be far more counterfeits being sold and you won't know which you are getting.

I'm so glad I came across this thread. At least now I know to be wary. I actually have several items on my watch list from this seller, but I luckily haven't bought anything from him/her yet.

I'm glad this post is helping to raise awareness.


It seems more likely he is printing counterfeits and selling them as if they were the real thing.
...or (if I was to play "Devil's Advocate") perhaps he's a not-so-knowledgeable retailer buying counterfeits because he doesn't know any better, thinks they're real and was offered a great deal.  Either way, though, it's not a good sign.

I agree it is not a good sign either way.  I actually messaged back and forth with him (about a year ago) and he claimed ignorance of them being counterfeits.  But the things he said to me (and the way he said them) also felt fishy.  In addition to the other facts I was looking at, it made me doubt his honesty.

Either way, it is the seller's responsibility to ensure they are not selling false goods.  Or else, at least NOTE in the auction that he isn't sure if it is authentic or a fake.  But to sell them as originals is reprehensible.  Here are some things I like to keep in mind:

  • I alerted him to the issue of the UltraGaffs being counterfeit about a year ago.  So he is now clearly aware of the issue of authenticity with expensive decks.
  • At one point I looked and he was selling auctions like these week after week after week.  So I have to assume he has either manufactured a large lot or has purchased a large lot.
  • By selling these cards, he at least knows enough about these cards to realize who makes them, and how rare they are.  It would stand to reason that at one point in his head, when buying a lot of 1,000 Sultan Treasuries or a lot of 1,000 Red LTD decks....   he might consider they cannot possibly be authentic.

So, given these thoughts, it occurs to me he is not entirely honest.

Yes, some of his auctions look authentic to me too.... and they very well might be.
But I just can't trust someone who willingly puts buyers at risk of loss by selling cards he may have reason to suspect are fakes.

I was looking through some of the stuff he had on sale and I think what puts the guard down for most consumers are the non-stock photos of the decks,  which make it seem like the seller has the original deck in question. However,  I've seen this happen many times,  where the seller uses the non-stock photo of another eBay seller. For the JAQKs (or any other deck,  really),  the photos may have been taken from another seller,  which is why the listing looks legit.

Some of them really might be authentic.  But I will say that any photos of the UltraGaff brick I had purchased would have looked just like the originals.  It was only upon very close inspection I started noticing a bunch of things were wrong.  Someone who isn't looking as closely as I was may not even have noticed.  The counterfeits were pretty good imitations at first glance.  And if you didn't open the decks, you would have even less reason to doubt their authenticity.

If you all are interested I can put up some photos I took a while back comparing the UltraGaff counterfeits to the real decks.

Yeah. I'd like to know eBay's response to the matter though.

Well, FFN was the original complainant on this topic - it would be a matter of whether or not he reported it to eBay.  No report, no response.

I mentioned in my first post that I did contact eBay about the issue and never heard back.  My reports of violations just disappeared into a black hole of nothingness.  I even sent emails to Ellusionist, Theory 11, and Dan & Dave to let them know about this guy.  They all essentially replied with, "hey thanks for the info, we'll look into it" and then I never heard anything further.  It's was quite akin to yelling into outer space.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2013, 12:30:24 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2013, 04:45:18 PM »
 

Justin O.

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I bought a deck of Sultan Treasurys from this seller a while back, close to the beginning of my collecting (Probably paid more than I should have) and I would be hard pressed to see these as a forgery, the quality of the tuck at least really holds up. For the price I put down I hold be really upset to find they were fakes. At some point I will pick up another treasury and do a side by side.
I hope you're wrong. I will definitely keep my distance from this buyer from here on out though. Not worth the chance.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 05:48:06 PM by Justin O. »
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Re: [eBay] fraudulent seller: rareangpow
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2013, 12:33:53 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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If you all are interested I can put up some photos I took a while back comparing the UltraGaff counterfeits to the real decks.

That would actually be an excellent idea.

Also, please note that I combined your three consecutive posts into a single post.  When you have more info to add only minutes after your last post and no one else has commented yet, simply edit that post and add to it rather than making a second or third one.
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