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Playing Card Chat ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦ => Playing Card Plethora => Topic started by: Evan on November 09, 2012, 10:25:33 PM

Title: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Evan on November 09, 2012, 10:25:33 PM
THIS IS A MUST READ!
Please note that the name of this deck has not been revealed yet.

Release Date: Late January, 2013
Where: Unknown

"This deck is going to shake up the magic and card collectors world. It represents a personal quest to produce the best quality deck of cards in the world, with no compromises. The cards are not printed at USPCC or with USPCC card stock. It is entirely new stock, finish, paper, cut tooling, etc.

David Blaine and Bill Kalush have collaborated extensively in the design and manufacture of this premium deck. We have visited factories worldwide to find the absolute best quality card, and then we improved on it using past expirence. Guaranteed you haven't felt anything as nice out of USPC in the past 8 years. The registration is incredible and the edges immaculate, not rough, uneven or furry like you see on current Bicycle decks.

That's just the card stock. The artwork is by legendary Mark Stutzman in collaboration with Lawrence Sullivan. There is a custom Tuck, Joker, and Ace. It's an stunning Asian themed card based of Japanese and Chinese mythology. A classic and timeless design, engraved by hand by one of the world's leading artists." - Lawrence Sullivan
Title: Re: NEW DECK- "Unnamed" Deck
Post by: xlacs on November 09, 2012, 10:30:36 PM
The back design looks pretty cool and I love the shade of blue. Can't wait for more info on this.
Title: Re: NEW DECK- "Unnamed" Deck
Post by: sr15 on November 09, 2012, 11:14:59 PM
looks like another deck with a lot of hype but probably not a lot of creativity
Title: Re: NEW DECK- "Unnamed" Deck
Post by: Don Boyer on November 10, 2012, 12:28:38 AM
This is a great find, Evan.

If I had to guess, it looks like the name of the deck is "Legends".

I think I may actually know a little bit about this "quest for the perfect deck" - some info I heard.  I supplied Kevin Reylek and Alex Pandrea a handful of non-USPC made decks from my collection maybe a half-year ago, which they in turn supplied to Bill Kalush to examine and test.  I can't really say which he liked best, but I really hope that he managed to secure the same printer - if he did, this is going to be one spectacular deck.

looks like another deck with a lot of hype but probably not a lot of creativity

Yeah, whatever.  'Cause we all know what crappy decks David Blaine puts out and the terrible quality of the CARC decks which Bill Kalush produces...
Title: Re: NEW DECK- "Unnamed" Deck
Post by: sr15 on November 10, 2012, 12:39:37 AM
all I'm saying is that if I had a nickel for every overhyped, underwhelming deck that came out recently, I'd have at least more than a couple nickels. I'll wait until I see more from the deck but I'm sick of blurry photos that show basically nothing of the deck accompanied by a bunch of words about how awesome the deck will be, and that's basically what this is so far: all words. Let the deck speak for itself.
Title: Re: NEW DECK- "Unnamed" Deck
Post by: Don Boyer on November 10, 2012, 01:26:59 AM
all I'm saying is that if I had a nickel for every overhyped, underwhelming deck that came out recently, I'd have at least more than a couple nickels. I'll wait until I see more from the deck but I'm sick of blurry photos that show basically nothing of the deck accompanied by a bunch of words about how awesome the deck will be, and that's basically what this is so far: all words. Let the deck speak for itself.

I have to concur with you on being fed up with "revealing" photos that don't really show much of anything.  And yes, some companies in the past (coughTEE-ELEVENcough) have severely overhyped decks which later turned out to be decent at most.

But neither David Blaine nor Bill Kalush are prone to such hyperbole.  Don't assume that because one or two companies are guilty of such marketing tactics that they are all guilty of the same.  Based on the description alone, this deck has a lot more creativity being put into it - and that's something I'd say without having seen a single photograph, blurry or otherwise.

Evan, I'd like to request that you retitle the thread with the suspected title in quotes and something about how it's a Blaine/Kalush deck.  I could do it myself, but this is your thread and I'd like you to make the decision.
Title: Re: NEW DECK- "Unnamed" Deck
Post by: see_squared on November 15, 2012, 06:27:20 PM
I agree with Don...it appears the deck may be called "Legends" and looks like the top of the tuck box is an ambigram that reads "Sullivan" right-side up and "Lawrence" upside-down.  I like how this deck looks. Mark is an incredible artist, in my opinion everything he touches turns to gold.  He painted an amazing watercolor poster for me about 4 years ago.
Title: Re: NEW DECK- "Unnamed" Deck
Post by: Evan on November 15, 2012, 07:34:44 PM
@Don, please change it to what you feel it should be. I really wasn't sure what to name the thread.
Title: Re: NEW DECK- "Unnamed" Deck
Post by: Don Boyer on November 15, 2012, 10:03:24 PM
@Don, please change it to what you feel it should be. I really wasn't sure what to name the thread.


You do know that you can change the title of any thread you start, simply by changing the title in the first post, right?


I'll change it for you.


BTW: where'd you get the intel?
Title: Re: NEW DECK- "Unnamed" Deck
Post by: Evan on November 15, 2012, 10:07:56 PM
@Don, please change it to what you feel it should be. I really wasn't sure what to name the thread.


You do know that you can change the title of any thread you start, simply by changing the title in the first post, right?


I'll change it for you.


BTW: where'd you get the intel?
Yes, I know that.

The info was sent to me by Lawrence Sullivan, who I believe is part of this project.
Title: Re: Legends Deck (?) - new from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Siegismyname on November 16, 2012, 12:24:25 AM
This title is so much more appealing. I hope the silver split spades come out together with these so as to save on shipping.
Title: Re: Legends Deck (?) - new from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Zenneth on November 16, 2012, 05:15:41 AM
No.852 is a brilliant touch...that's the area code for Hong Kong, where Lawrence and I based.

Lawrence is really smart guy, the design of this deck is very well thought out and some new design features made me feel like "why didn't I think of that!'

This is going to be a very impressive deck,  better yet, Lawrence have very good marketing ideas with this release.  He doesn't really just aim on playing card collectors, and I am very impressed of his strategies to present this deck to the public.
 


Title: Re: Legends Deck (?) - new from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Siegismyname on November 16, 2012, 08:54:51 AM
I am sold. Just gimme an address and a price. I love tigers and dragons. The backs incorporates many exotic animals. Split spades resemblance? I am hoping for more color variants.
Title: Re: Legends Deck (?) - new from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on November 16, 2012, 12:40:47 PM
This title is so much more appealing. I hope the silver split spades come out together with these so as to save on shipping.


This deck isn't due out until late January, while some theorize that the Silver Split Spades Lions will come out on Black Friday.  You need to use one of those reshipping companies.


The info was sent to me by Lawrence Sullivan, who I believe is part of this project.


Awesome!  Thanks for the reveal.


No.852 is a brilliant touch...that's the area code for Hong Kong, where Lawrence and I based.

Lawrence is really smart guy, the design of this deck is very well thought out and some new design features made me feel like "why didn't I think of that!'

This is going to be a very impressive deck,  better yet, Lawrence have very good marketing ideas with this release.  He doesn't really just aim on playing card collectors, and I am very impressed of his strategies to present this deck to the public.


That area code is a very cool touch.  So, they're planning on going beyond the collectors' market?  I'm curious to know how.  If it's a trade secret, we'll just have to wait and watch it unfold!
Title: Re: Legends Deck (?) - new from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Evan on December 03, 2012, 06:20:42 AM
I've got some new info!

The name of the deck is Legends.  And the decks will come in 3 initial colors:

Porcelain BLUE
Firecracker RED
Jade Metallic GREEN
Title: Re: Legends Deck (?) - new from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: agera94 on December 03, 2012, 06:40:46 AM
That. Looks. Amazing.
Title: Re: Legends Deck (?) - new from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Knobz1 on December 03, 2012, 07:41:38 AM
Any confirmation on when they will be released?   Or are we still sticking with sometime in January?
Title: Re: Legends Deck (?) - new from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: BastianBJ on December 03, 2012, 08:39:08 AM
Wow, that really looks great! Like the dragons on the tuck box! :)

Can't wait to see the backs as well as the cards ;D
Title: Re: Legends Deck (?) - new from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: 4pm Designer on December 03, 2012, 09:14:41 AM
Not particularly a fan of the theme, but it is a DB release and that tuck and design looks promising. I think I will pick these up if not for the actual design than more out of the curiosity of this new stock/finish.
Title: Re: Legends Deck (?) - new from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Strag on December 03, 2012, 10:10:30 AM
Just such a shame that International shipping is so much.  *sigh*
Title: Re: Legends Deck (?) - new from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: MrMollusk on December 03, 2012, 11:11:47 AM
Oooh.
These look really nice so far! Hope they won't sell out as fast as the first White Lions.
Title: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on December 03, 2012, 11:37:26 AM
The box looks great.  And MrMollusk, it won't sell out as fast as the White Lions Series A decks...


...it'll sell out FASTER!


I'm really itching to see this deck.  It's the result of an effort on the part of many magicians and card men to find a suitable alternative (or perhaps even a replacement) for USPC in terms of quality and cost.  For David Blaine and Bill Kalush to sign off on it, it's got to be something good.

The initial images showed an unembossed box, with one showing the box in a David Blaine Porper Clip.  Could be a prototype, or maybe the deck will come in two versions - basic and deluxe?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: twiscold on December 03, 2012, 01:18:44 PM
arent the three colors are blue,red and green? we saw the blue one but the new pic of tuck box is purple tho
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: MrMollusk on December 03, 2012, 02:26:11 PM

...it'll sell out FASTER!


(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTkqz-qbJgP1eyOlif3dX5tWaRa9QEgkjJ7QkJMw9_psNzw9Gxk)

I have NO money right now...
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on December 03, 2012, 03:14:12 PM

...it'll sell out FASTER!


(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTkqz-qbJgP1eyOlif3dX5tWaRa9QEgkjJ7QkJMw9_psNzw9Gxk)

I have NO money right now...


You do realize that these aren't coming out for well over a month from now, right?  Save up your Hanukah gelt and cash in your Christmas gift cards...
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: xela on December 03, 2012, 05:03:41 PM
I hate to be the killjoy here but how am I the only one not hyped about these?

It says "1st edition" on the box which screams that they will re-release these every other week like they did with the White Lions.

The whole custom stock/finish thing seems sketchy. We KNOW FOR A FACT that USPCC doesn't do custom stocks/finishes, but even if DB developed with them - what are its properties? Smooth, even, non-furry edges are STAPLE in every custom USPCC deck. Bicycle Standards only have bad edges because they are low quality decks with little quality control.

So I am utterly confused here - aside from the art, which indeed does look fantastic, what is so special about these cards? They certainly don't seem collectible or innovative. I agree that art alone is more than enough reason to get a deck, but I don't agree that these cards are anything but another custom deck, albeit a high quality one.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: loldudex2 on December 03, 2012, 05:18:51 PM
Alex, I think everyone is so hyped because its a NON-USPCC deck, that David Blaine is producing, along with Bill, two people who don't put their names on just any deck. From the reviews I've heard from this company (ex. Russell from CCC) says these cards are immaculate and surpass USPCC.

I'm excited because everyone always says that the USPCC is as good as it gets, and with the release of this deck; there will be some new (much needed) competition over the playing card industry.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: xela on December 03, 2012, 05:28:59 PM
Quote
NON-USPCC

Holy shit, didn't catch that. Are we sure it's not USPCC? From Evan's post, it was really vague.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: john on December 03, 2012, 05:33:57 PM
The cards are not printed at USPCC or with USPCC card stock. It is entirely new stock, finish, paper, cut tooling, etc.

Quote
NON-USPCC

Holy shit, didn't catch that. Are we sure it's not USPCC? From Evan's post, it was really vague.

Pretty clear to me Japan...
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: sr15 on December 03, 2012, 06:11:25 PM
while my wallet gently weeps...
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: digipunk on December 03, 2012, 08:00:46 PM
not a fan of this deck, the dragons look stupid to me... ⊙_⊙
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Siegismyname on December 03, 2012, 09:31:03 PM
not a fan of this deck, the dragons look stupid to me... ⊙_⊙
The dragons on the tuck doesn't appeal to me. But I think the dragons and tiger/lion on the back looks good. Wouldn't it be great if they included the Blaine Porper clips to a few lucky people who buy this deck, just like how they are running a lucky draw for the 15-min Skype session with David Blaine himself.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: sway on December 04, 2012, 12:22:53 AM
@Tuck box

Baratheon vs. Stark.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on December 04, 2012, 12:46:43 AM
Quote
NON-USPCC

Holy shit, didn't catch that. Are we sure it's not USPCC? From Evan's post, it was really vague.

John mentioned Japan, but I don't think it is.  Probably their best I know of is Angel Playing Cards, and they're good, but not the kind of good I keep hearing.

Knowing what I know about this project, I think they MIGHT (and that's a big MIGHT) have found the printer who did the work for the MSM decks.  Either that or Kalush went ahead and made his own print shop somewhere in Asia!  One way or another, I'm pretty sure this deck was made in East Asia.  Could be Hong Kong, Taiwan, China - I don't know.

@Tuck box

Baratheon vs. Stark.

? ? ?  I don't understand the reference.  I know it's from Game of Thrones, but I haven't watched or read it.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Russell CircleCityCards on December 04, 2012, 01:38:45 AM
I felt a deck from Taiwan where the edges were as smooth as glass. I know Bill and another gentleman have sample decks from all over SouthEast Asia.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on December 04, 2012, 01:52:25 AM
I felt a deck from Taiwan where the edges were as smooth as glass. I know Bill and another gentleman have sample decks from all over SouthEast Asia.

I know.  I loaned some decks to Alex Pandrea, who loaned them to Bill Kalush.  That was some months back.  Which deck are you referring to?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Russell CircleCityCards on December 04, 2012, 02:16:30 AM
This was mid-September at the Erlanger meet-up.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on December 04, 2012, 04:48:06 AM
This was mid-September at the Erlanger meet-up.

I loaned out the decks probably in July - it was before my wedding trip in mid-August.

Still - which deck is the one you mentioned, the Taiwanese models with edges like glass?  I'm itching to know!
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: john on December 04, 2012, 07:35:44 AM
Quote
NON-USPCC

Holy shit, didn't catch that. Are we sure it's not USPCC? From Evan's post, it was really vague.

John mentioned Japan, but I don't think it is

It's an inside joke between alex and i :P
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: jmrock on December 04, 2012, 02:41:51 PM
I would certainly think that these are USPCC... So what the company is Japanese... Tokidoki, Kaws, Oriental, Lu Chen, etc... All USPCC... I wouldn't see why Blaine would venture off and use another company given his history with USPCC... The deck looks nice... Again with every color under the sun... Call me nostalgic, but I miss the Red & Blue only days...
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Joker and the Thief on December 04, 2012, 04:55:20 PM
I think I might purchase these! By the looks of it the shades of colour are going to be nice and the back looks great. It's not too heavy on the oriental stuff either. Not that I have anything against it.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on December 04, 2012, 11:28:09 PM
I would certainly think that these are USPCC... So what the company is Japanese... Tokidoki, Kaws, Oriental, Lu Chen, etc... All USPCC... I wouldn't see why Blaine would venture off and use another company given his history with USPCC... The deck looks nice... Again with every color under the sun... Call me nostalgic, but I miss the Red & Blue only days...

There's nothing wrong per se with USPC.  But certain aspects of how getting things done is handled leaves many deck designers frustrated at times.  I don't believe they're using a Japanese company - that was some inside joke between John and Alex.

USPC does good work when you pay for Q1, but there are some companies that do better.  I can show you a few decks when we (finally) meet to sell you those Americanas you wanted!  :))

BTW: you of all people should know that the traditional colors aren't exclusively blue and red.  A large number of now-vintage Bicycle decks were made in green and brown as well...  Green is no less traditional than red or blue.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: sway on December 05, 2012, 11:53:39 AM
? ? ?  I don't understand the reference.  I know it's from Game of Thrones, but I haven't watched or read it.

I'm attaching the sigils of House Baratheon (the stag) and House Stark (the direwolf), so you can get the reference.

Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Evan on December 09, 2012, 02:03:24 PM
New pics!

I really like the back design! There's so much detail!
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on December 09, 2012, 07:05:26 PM
New pics!

I really like the back design! There's so much detail!


There is.  These must be prototypes.  The boxes aren't embossed.  Good find!
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Evan on December 10, 2012, 02:40:55 PM
So, I asked Lawrence if all of the colors are being released at once, and this was his reply:

"Yeah! That's the plan. The colors look really good. Decks feel great. Stiffer and thinner than uspcc. Different finish. Great edges and still faro well. Waiting for the big shipment now. Another few weeks."
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Siegismyname on December 10, 2012, 10:34:01 PM
Here's another pic from Bill Kalush's instagram.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Evan on December 13, 2012, 02:39:30 PM
I got an update from Lawrence today:

"The Legends are printed and the quality is fantastic. Smooth edges with a thin and stiff stock. The artwork looks classic and crisp, with near perfect registration on the thin white borders.

There are 3,888 of each color printed, and a big chunk will be for my personal use, the rest will be sold. There are 10 uncuts in each color as well.

The tuck is Laminated, which gives it a different look and feel. The tuck is also thicker and more robust than a standard USPCC tuck. Best of all, the plastic seal actually opens the wrapper when you pull the tab" - Lawrence


These sound awesome!
And as you can see by the box, these are printed in Taiwan.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Paul Carpenter on December 13, 2012, 03:54:45 PM
So the box says printed in Taiwan. Who can tell me what premium company with beautiful smooth edges, perfect registration and laminated boxes made these over there? I'd love to know.

Googling found the Kuo Kau Paper Products company...
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: MrMollusk on December 13, 2012, 05:46:56 PM
So the box says printed in Taiwan. Who can tell me what premium company with beautiful smooth edges, perfect registration and laminated boxes made these over there? I'd love to know.

Googling found the Kuo Kau Paper Products company...
I don't think they're printing them. From what I see, they don't really do custom decks for cardistry and magic.
http://www.playingcards.com.tw/series2.html
What I really want to know is the playing card company that printed the Oriental Deck.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Evan on December 13, 2012, 07:02:15 PM
So the box says printed in Taiwan. Who can tell me what premium company with beautiful smooth edges, perfect registration and laminated boxes made these over there? I'd love to know.

Googling found the Kuo Kau Paper Products company...
I don't think they're printing them. From what I see, they don't really do custom decks for cardistry and magic.
http://www.playingcards.com.tw/series2.html
What I really want to know is the playing card company that printed the Oriental Deck.
The Oriental deck was printed by USPC lol
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Joker and the Thief on December 13, 2012, 08:17:55 PM

Googling found the Kuo Kau Paper Products company...

That's the only lead that I could locate...
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Siegismyname on December 13, 2012, 09:45:21 PM
Dont quite dig the AoS. The printing company is probably the same on that printed the moth/myth decks.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on December 14, 2012, 12:41:10 AM
Dont quite dig the AoS. The printing company is probably the same on that printed the moth/myth decks.


That's my guess.  Taiwan's a small island, and I can't imagine there's a lot of playing card printers there.  One would be a lot.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: MrMollusk on December 14, 2012, 03:23:10 PM
So the box says printed in Taiwan. Who can tell me what premium company with beautiful smooth edges, perfect registration and laminated boxes made these over there? I'd love to know.

Googling found the Kuo Kau Paper Products company...
I don't think they're printing them. From what I see, they don't really do custom decks for cardistry and magic.
http://www.playingcards.com.tw/series2.html
What I really want to know is the playing card company that printed the Oriental Deck.
The Oriental deck was printed by USPC lol
Oops. I meant the White Blue Tune deck. Derp. ???
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on December 14, 2012, 08:32:01 PM
So the box says printed in Taiwan. Who can tell me what premium company with beautiful smooth edges, perfect registration and laminated boxes made these over there? I'd love to know.

Googling found the Kuo Kau Paper Products company...
I don't think they're printing them. From what I see, they don't really do custom decks for cardistry and magic.
http://www.playingcards.com.tw/series2.html (http://www.playingcards.com.tw/series2.html)
What I really want to know is the playing card company that printed the Oriental Deck.
The Oriental deck was printed by USPC lol
Oops. I meant the White Blue Tune deck. Derp. ???


Was the White Tune deck made in Taiwan?  I thought it was from somewhere else in Asia.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Evan on December 14, 2012, 09:48:57 PM
So the box says printed in Taiwan. Who can tell me what premium company with beautiful smooth edges, perfect registration and laminated boxes made these over there? I'd love to know.

Googling found the Kuo Kau Paper Products company...
I don't think they're printing them. From what I see, they don't really do custom decks for cardistry and magic.
http://www.playingcards.com.tw/series2.html (http://www.playingcards.com.tw/series2.html)
What I really want to know is the playing card company that printed the Oriental Deck.
The Oriental deck was printed by USPC lol
Oops. I meant the White Blue Tune deck. Derp. ???


Was the White Tune deck made in Taiwan?  I thought it was from somewhere else in Asia.
The White Tune deck was printed in Singapore.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on December 14, 2012, 11:55:33 PM

Was the White Tune deck made in Taiwan?  I thought it was from somewhere else in Asia.
The White Tune deck was printed in Singapore.

I thought as much.  Knew it was one of the smaller nations but couldn't remember which.  I just knew it wasn't Taiwan.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Zenneth on December 16, 2012, 01:42:57 PM
I met with Lawrence today and he gave me all three decks...
and I can testify everything that Lawrence said about them, they are beautiful in every aspect!
Very very nice quality, great for all kinds of card moves...I love them!
In fact, right after trying out these decks I decided to team up with Lawrence and use the same company for my personal future release too.

If you do magic, you will be very impressed for how clever this deck is designed.
Kalush and Lawrence have built in many clever details for these decks, damn...these guys are really smart people!
It's a real challenge to come up with ideas to top what they have already thought of.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: MrMollusk on December 16, 2012, 08:36:37 PM
I met with Lawrence today and he gave me all three decks...
and I can testify everything that Lawrence said about them, they are beautiful in every aspect!
Very very nice quality, great for all kinds of card moves...I love them!
In fact, right after trying out these decks I decided to team up with Lawrence and use the same company for my personal future release too.

If you do magic, you will be very impressed for how clever this deck is designed.
Kalush and Lawrence have built in many clever details for these decks, damn...these guys are really smart people!
It's a real challenge to come up with ideas to top what they have already thought of.

So... what's the company? ._.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on December 17, 2012, 01:04:37 AM
I finally decided to get off my virtual butt and do a little research as to just how many playing card manufacturers exist in Taiwan.  This is not likely a comprehensive list, but there's far more companies in the business there than I thought.

A Plus Playing Card Co., Ltd.
Amass International Corp.
Chun Wei Paperware Factory
Countryside Industrial Co., Ltd.
Easywrite Industrial Co., Ltd.
Hong Tai Printing Co., Ltd.
Hsin Bi Golden Co., Ltd.
Joytop Enterprise Co., Ltd.
Kai Yuan Printing Co., Ltd.
Kuo Kao (makers of Royal and Queen brands)
Leisure Products Co., Ltd.
Nickie (Taiwan) Trading Co. (makes only nudie decks)
Rich Colors Technology Co., Ltd.
Shern Maw Enterprise Co., Ltd.
Tai Fu Chi Plastic Co., Ltd.
Taiwan Jhonsin Co., Ltd.
Yuan Fang Industrial Co., Ltd.

Of these companies, Amass appears to be the largest.  Below you'll find photos of two of their more curious-looking playing card products.  The first makes even the NOC deck appear complicated and the second will put an end to the debate of which deck has the largest index (the cards are also jumbo size, approx. 5.7" x 3.7")...
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: sr15 on December 17, 2012, 02:09:21 AM
Nickie (Taiwan) Trading Co. (makes only nudie decks)

blaine might be going in a different direction than we thought??
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Evan on December 31, 2012, 07:08:38 PM
I received these about a month before the release and I must say, I am impressed! It has a thin stock, slick finish, cool design, and thin borders! The cellophane pull strip thingy actually works which is awesome. The box has very light embossing and is kind of hard to feel. The box is also a bit flimsy but not terrible.

First impressions:

The finish is very slippery right out of the box and the stock is soft. The stock's stiffness is similar to Bicycle stock, but the stock is very thin, unlike Bike. Fans clump a bit, but I'm hoping that as I break in the deck, they won't clump as much. It spreads well, and it's great for pressure fans. The stock is springy which is good for springs.


I'll have a video review up when I break the deck in.

The file sizes of my pictures are too big to go on the forum, but you can see the pics here: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.540511952630413.141448.295728693775408&type=1

Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 01, 2013, 12:43:11 AM
I received these about a month before the release and I must say, I am impressed! It has a thin stock, slick finish, cool design, and thin borders! The cellophane pull strip thingy actually works which is awesome. The box has very light embossing and is kind of hard to feel. The box is also a bit flimsy but not terrible.

First impressions:

The finish is very slippery right out of the box and the stock is soft. The stock's stiffness is similar to Bicycle stock, but the stock is very thin, unlike Bike. Fans clump a bit, but I'm hoping that as I break in the deck, they won't clump as much. It spreads well, and it's great for pressure fans. The stock is springy which is good for springs.


I'll have a video review up when I break the deck in.

The file sizes of my pictures are too big to go on the forum, but you can see the pics here: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.540511952630413.141448.295728693775408&type=1

They won't clump.  I've had mine about as long.

The tuck boxes we got are NOT the release version.  The release tucks will have a matte finish instead of lamination and there will be more embossing - you posted a photo of the release version tuck uncut.

In addition, the deck back is slightly altered - it's a mirror image of what will be on the final product.  The back on the back of the box is correct, displaying the "LS diamond" logo unmirrored.

Conjuring Arts Research Center will be carrying them, among others I'm sure.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: sr15 on January 02, 2013, 11:10:44 PM
anyone have information on a specific or near-specific release date? I need to save up some money either way but it would be nice to know
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Evan on January 03, 2013, 12:07:00 AM
anyone have information on a specific or near-specific release date? I need to save up some money either way but it would be nice to know
I believe it will be sometime this month.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 03, 2013, 04:54:35 AM
anyone have information on a specific or near-specific release date? I need to save up some money either way but it would be nice to know
I believe it will be sometime this month.

CARC will have them available before the end of this month.  If they follow their usual pattern, they will release them first to members at a discounted price, then to the public some weeks later.  It is possible, though, that others will be carrying this deck as well, so keep your eyes open.

As far as price, one of the many reasons for switching to the printer they used was to find a way to make quality cards less expensively.  How much of the savings will be passed on to the consumer remains to be seen, but I'm thinking it will be priced somewhere between competitively and cheaply.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Gunshy1 on January 03, 2013, 02:32:06 PM
this is really the last deck that ive been looking forward to. i want to get away from collecting and focus on magic and cardistry more so then the cards. buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut always reading these forums and looking at the pics makes it hard sometimes to stay away from buying decks that really aren't all that good.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 03, 2013, 02:48:22 PM
this is really the last deck that ive been looking forward to. i want to get away from collecting and focus on magic and cardistry more so then the cards. buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut always reading these forums and looking at the pics makes it hard sometimes to stay away from buying decks that really aren't all that good.

Bro, these are good.  Thin, stiff without being obscenely so, an excellent deck when fully broken in.  Awesome design, lots of gimmies for magicians.  It could become the last deck you ever want...  (OK, that sounds like adspeak, but they're really good.)
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Gunshy1 on January 03, 2013, 04:15:24 PM
good to hear! hopefully they are priced on the  lowish side of custom decks.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: DrianAbara on January 03, 2013, 08:25:11 PM
Don, do you prefer the Legends to the White Lions? Personally the White Lions are my favourite deck just because they're so durable and handle well after about 3 hours of messing around with them.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 04, 2013, 06:06:19 AM
HOW DO I DELETE POSTS

You need to ask Alex.  He doesn't do it often.  Easier thing to do is what you did - edit your post to say nothing, perhaps leave a note saying why.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Evan on January 06, 2013, 01:37:42 AM
Don, do you prefer the Legends to the White Lions? Personally the White Lions are my favourite deck just because they're so durable and handle well after about 3 hours of messing around with them.
I know this question wasn't directed at me, but I'm going to give you my opinion anyway  :)

I like the Legends deck much more than White Lions. These have a unique feel, and they handle better and better with more use.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 06, 2013, 02:14:58 AM
Don, do you prefer the Legends to the White Lions? Personally the White Lions are my favourite deck just because they're so durable and handle well after about 3 hours of messing around with them.

I've got to give it to the Legends.  White Lions are great cards, but the Legends have a feel that's comparable to the white decks produced by Misdirection's Mystery, "The Watcher" and "Moth/Myth" in white.  (The black Moth/Myth deck was also very good, but it had more of a waxy texture, possibly due to applying too much finish or a slightly different formula.  They have an unusual texture that allows them to fan well when broken in, but still has enough "cling" between cards to make magic moves like double lifts or cardistry moves like deck cuts easy as pie.  The feel is unlike anything I've experienced in cards produced by any company before, domestic or international.

I know this question wasn't directed at me, but I'm going to give you my opinion anyway  :)

Never let it be said that Evan won't pounce on an opportunity to offer his opinion, especially when he wasn't asked!  :))
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Joker and the Thief on January 06, 2013, 02:31:57 AM
Don, do you prefer the Legends to the White Lions? Personally the White Lions are my favourite deck just because they're so durable and handle well after about 3 hours of messing around with them.

I know what you mean about the White Lions being durable. My recently opened series A has withstood around 15+ hours of heavy use.

As for the Legends Deck, how did you guys get them early? Not being picky just curious. :))
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 06, 2013, 02:53:32 AM

As for the Legends Deck, how did you guys get them early? Not being picky just curious. :))

I can't speak for Evan, but I was invited to try them.  I'd prefer not to go into details; I'd rather be known as the guy who can keep a secret than the guy who can't.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Joker and the Thief on January 06, 2013, 03:00:00 AM

As for the Legends Deck, how did you guys get them early? Not being picky just curious. :))

I can't speak for Evan, but I was invited to try them.  I'd prefer not to go into details; I'd rather be known as the guy who can keep a secret than the guy who can't.

Fair enough :))
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: anep21 on January 06, 2013, 07:51:01 AM
CARC will have them available before the end of this month.  If they follow their usual pattern, they will release them first to members at a discounted price, then to the public some weeks later

I hope they will release it soon. My membership will expired on the last day of January
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 06, 2013, 08:23:27 AM
CARC will have them available before the end of this month.  If they follow their usual pattern, they will release them first to members at a discounted price, then to the public some weeks later

I hope they will release it soon. My membership will expired on the last day of January

Barring the unforeseen, it looks like you'll be safe.  Just don't dawdle when they do come out!

I wouldn't be surprised one bit if this deck sold out to members before the public even got a crack at it - though I'm also thinking CARC won't be the only shop in town with them.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: anep21 on January 06, 2013, 09:01:41 AM
I wouldn't be surprised one bit if this deck sold out to members before the public even got a crack at it - though I'm also thinking CARC won't be the only shop in town with them.

Did they say this will be limited? Btw Don, is it really that good?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 06, 2013, 12:32:02 PM
I wouldn't be surprised one bit if this deck sold out to members before the public even got a crack at it - though I'm also thinking CARC won't be the only shop in town with them.

Did they say this will be limited? Btw Don, is it really that good?

Every print run is limited, in the sense that USPC isn't cranking them out 24/7/365.  It's very possible that this will be limited, or that it will be reprinted - I couldn't say.  I'll ask, though.

Is it really that good?  No, I'm a bald-faced liar, and everything I say is a lie...

Seriously?  :))  If I said it, it's how I feel.  Not that I never change my mind - but when I do, I say so.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Lara Krystle "Lane" on January 06, 2013, 08:53:27 PM

YEAY! New DB to add to the DB collection! ^-^ .
I loved the White Lions a lot because of the design and durability. And since Don and Zenneth and Evan has put in a lot of positive notes on this deck specially it not being USPC. I'm really wanting to buy a few!

This is what I love about the forums! You get so many opinions for various people making life easier when figuring out whether you want to get the deck or not.

Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 07, 2013, 02:13:02 AM

YEAY! New DB to add to the DB collection! ^-^ .
I loved the White Lions a lot because of the design and durability. And since Don and Zenneth and Evan has put in a lot of positive notes on this deck specially it not being USPC. I'm really wanting to buy a few!

This is what I love about the forums! You get so many opinions for various people making life easier when figuring out whether you want to get the deck or not.

Technically, it's not a DB deck, per se.  The deck is Lawrence Sullivan's - he's a prominent magician in Hong Kong.  The design comes from Mark Stutzman, the same guy who's designed all of the Blaine decks.  And, at least initially if not exclusively, they're being offered through CARC, courtesy of its Executive Director, Bill Kalush, and a fellow Board of Directors member, David Blaine.  I think it has more in common with a product on CARC's site like the Pr1me Decks than it does with the Erdnase Bees - something they had a hand in, but didn't entirely produce in-house as a CARC-branded product.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: DrianAbara on January 07, 2013, 08:59:11 PM

YEAY! New DB to add to the DB collection! ^-^ .
I loved the White Lions a lot because of the design and durability. And since Don and Zenneth and Evan has put in a lot of positive notes on this deck specially it not being USPC. I'm really wanting to buy a few!

This is what I love about the forums! You get so many opinions for various people making life easier when figuring out whether you want to get the deck or not.
I'll be surprised if they're more durable than the White Lions. But then again I've seen some people say that the Silver Split Spades are more durable than the WLs, and I was shocked at this because my decks still handle like a dream, so smooth. I have a deck of Coterie Bee playing cards that I use, and they don't last as long as the White Lions when I play with them for a while, even though they're newer, (Sorry Zenneth) I'd get a brick of White Lions if I had the money  ;D Although the King of Hearts gaff makes up for it in the Coterie Deck  :D
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Lara Krystle "Lane" on January 07, 2013, 09:13:26 PM

@Don - My head is going in circles really. But okay. YEAY! A L.S. deck! to add to the card collection :)

@Drian - unfortunately I don't own a silver SS.
Bees are one ofthe more durable decks I admit but I also don't have a coterie deck.

But I really like the Legends deck. (now gotta bug the boyfriend to get me one of each mwahahha)
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 08, 2013, 02:11:44 AM

I'll be surprised if they're more durable than the White Lions. But then again I've seen some people say that the Silver Split Spades are more durable than the WLs, and I was shocked at this because my decks still handle like a dream, so smooth. I have a deck of Coterie Bee playing cards that I use, and they don't last as long as the White Lions when I play with them for a while, even though they're newer, (Sorry Zenneth) I'd get a brick of White Lions if I had the money  ;D Although the King of Hearts gaff makes up for it in the Coterie Deck  :D

Imagine something that's not just durable like the White Lions - but also THINNER.

I'm torture-testing a red pack now - I call it the "Coldstone test".  My desk at work was made with artificial stone surfaces polished smooth as glass.  It tends to be on the chilly side here in winter, and I've been known to put a deck down on the desk - or even a half-finished solitaire game - to find many of the cards bending up at the sides because the surface was too cold.  Even in summer, the air conditioning chills the room and the stone just sucks that cold right in, making it cool to the touch.

A good, well-made deck, stacked and placed on this desk, will hardly bend - perhaps the top card of the stack and that's it.  Most of the decks I buy - yes, even from the big custom outfits - will bend significantly; the first handful of cards bend up.  I left a pack of Legends out for about two-and-a-half hours (most decks being bending in less the five MINUTES); only the top card on a stack of 54 bent up.

I have only one deck that's survived this test without bending at all.  A pack of American-made late-model Streamlines from Kentucky.  Not one card bent.  Interesting, when you think about it.  Now if it had a better finish...

BTW: hang on to that KH Coterie Bee card.  They'll never print it again.  Not unless USPC Legal undergoes surgery to get that stick out of its collective asses...  Since the deck's unique art is well past the copyright date, they're trying to defend it as a trademark, but in order to do that, they can't "dilute" the trademark by allowing it to be altered.  It's why you won't see new Rider Back gaffs that alter the back design, Ace of Spades or Joker.  It's the same reason why Mandolin Backs and Maiden Backs were created.  Those designs are quite young and will remain under copyright for at least 75 years after the creator of the design dies - or longer if they extend copyright law yet again.  They can be very easily confused with Rider Backs - you can even use old Rider Back gaffs with them or use new gaffs in that design with Rider Backs without spectators noticing the difference - but they're different enough to be unique designs and were specifically create to allow altered backs.  And while you can't alter the trademarked Jokers and AoS that USPC makes, you can just as easily replace them with a unique design of your own in a custom deck, letting you alter it any way you see fit for gaff work.

And why does copyright law keep extending the length of time a copyright lasts?  Because if they didn't, Mickey Mouse's first movie appearance, "Steamboat Willie", would be a public domain work, making it difficult for the Disney Company to profit from it when anyone can copy and sell it or make things based on it.  That would put a version of Mickey Mouse into the public domain as well!  Most companies that own aging intellectual property push the boundaries further and further back, totally perverting what copyright law was meant for.

And what was it meant for?  It was meant for its creator to have a chance to profit from his original idea, but then to become part of the public trust of ideas from which new ideas and things can be created.  If I recall, the first copyright law only lasted for twenty years after the work was created - meaning in most cases the work would become public within the creator's lifetime.  But once companies started to hold copyrights and those companies got older, they wanted to own them lock, stock and barrel.  Now, not only will the copyright outlive the creator, it will also outlive the culture in which it was created, since practically no one alive at the time it was created will still be alive, either, and never allowing the copyrighted material to sprout new ideas unless the copyright owner gets to keep some share of them, if not the whole thing.  There's no contemporary "public trust" any longer.  Today, if a young author publishes a book today at age 25 and lives a long healthy life of 100 years (a conservative estimate, since projections indicate that his lifespan will be extended to 120-150 or more due to new medical technologies), that book's copyright won't expire until the year 2163...and that still assumes the companies like Disney don't succeed in pushing the boundaries even further into the future.


But I really like the Legends deck. (now gotta bug the boyfriend to get me one of each mwahahha)

It will come in blue, red - and GREEN!
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: agera94 on January 08, 2013, 04:13:01 AM
Do we need to be a member of CARC to be able to get these?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 08, 2013, 04:34:55 AM
Do we need to be a member of CARC to be able to get these?

With almost anything CARC sells, it's available to members first at a discounted price, then it becomes available to the general public if there's any left.  I don't see any reason why they'd deviate from that course of action.  It's not entirely impossible that they'll open it to the public and members all at once, but I've never seen them do that before.  It's also possible that the deck will be available from other retail sources.  Of those two options, the latter is the more likely.

tl;dr: maybe, at first.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: agera94 on January 08, 2013, 06:44:52 AM
Ok cheers for that Don! If the first option is what will happen, then I'm going to need to find someone who can get me a few decks   ;) *nudge*
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 08, 2013, 10:22:47 AM
Ok cheers for that Don! If the first option is what will happen, then I'm going to need to find someone who can get me a few decks   ;) *nudge*

Uh, bro - I'm NOT a member.  Not that I don't want to be, but things cost money.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: sr15 on January 10, 2013, 09:59:36 PM
bahhhhh I want these freakin decks now. Any update on a potential release date?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 11, 2013, 06:59:14 AM
bahhhhh I want these freakin decks now. Any update on a potential release date?

"By the end of this month" is the best update available now.  Man, you guys are chomping at the bit for this one...  :))

If I knew the release date, don't you think I'd be posting it by now?  Trust me, someone somewhere will discover the release date and you'll see it here, fast as lightning.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: therealmackay on January 11, 2013, 08:34:47 AM
Has anyone seen a green deck??

I really think this will be a great release! Ill be on the look out for some as soon as they are released!

Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 11, 2013, 09:51:40 AM
Has anyone seen a green deck??

I really think this will be a great release! Ill be on the look out for some as soon as they are released!

I could be mistaken, but I think they only made prototypes (that's what Lawrence is calling them) of the red and blue.  Green will come with the regular production run.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Zenneth on January 12, 2013, 09:03:24 AM
@ Lara, Yes, I can testify for the quality and design of Legends, the quality is superb, very durable, hand feel is similar to Pr1me, most importantly, I have never seen so many clever ideas build in 1 deck, magicians are going to love them! You will be amazed by the price too, it will definitely become a super fast seller. I consider Legends to be a game changer, because I honestly believe the release of Legends will make a lot of designers switch to this new manufacturer that Lawrence is using.

@ Drian Well.. I am glad to learn that you are happy with the extra value that gaff card provides...am very proud of it too, for so many good magic effects are possible with just 1 card...but I still think Coterie Bee is at least as durable as White Lions, if not more... ;)

@ Don, too bad USPCC refused to print that KH gaff anymore, otherwise KH Gaff refills will be available as an item at Coterie.

Lawrence gave me all three decks: Blue, Red and Green before my trip to Toronto last month, he used metallic ink on the Green deck,
though, not sure Green deck will be more expensive than the other two colors.

Coterie will be make them available for pre-order next week. 
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 12, 2013, 04:42:01 PM
@ Lara, Yes, I can testify for the quality and design of Legends, the quality is superb, very durable, hand feel is similar to Pr1me, most importantly, I have never seen so many clever ideas build in 1 deck, magicians are going to love them! You will be amazed by the price too, it will definitely become a super fast seller. I consider Legends to be a game changer, because I honestly believe the release of Legends will make a lot of designers switch to this new manufacturer that Lawrence is using.

@ Drian Well.. I am glad to learn that you are happy with the extra value that gaff card provides...am very proud of it too, for so many good magic effects are possible with just 1 card...but I still think Coterie Bee is at least as durable as White Lions, if not more... ;)

@ Don, too bad USPCC refused to print that KH gaff anymore, otherwise KH Gaff refills will be available as an item at Coterie.

Lawrence gave me all three decks: Blue, Red and Green before my trip to Toronto last month, he used metallic ink on the Green deck,
though, not sure Green deck will be more expensive than the other two colors.

Coterie will be make them available for pre-order next week.

Awesome - thanks for the inside tip!

I know, judging from what I've seen and heard, that Zenneth doesn't exaggerate when he says this could be a potential game changer for people looking to create new playing card designs.

Zenneth - it's not IMPOSSIBLE to have that back made elsewhere.  The trademarks they're trying to defend are arguably indefensible due to dilution, and there's no existing copyright.  All the designs are public domain because of how old they are and what current copyright law states.  It's an issue you'd have to discuss with a lawyer, and you'd have to be willing to endure the inevitable legal complications, however.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: DrianAbara on January 12, 2013, 06:50:56 PM
@ Lara, Yes, I can testify for the quality and design of Legends, the quality is superb, very durable, hand feel is similar to Pr1me, most importantly, I have never seen so many clever ideas build in 1 deck, magicians are going to love them! You will be amazed by the price too, it will definitely become a super fast seller. I consider Legends to be a game changer, because I honestly believe the release of Legends will make a lot of designers switch to this new manufacturer that Lawrence is using.

@ Drian Well.. I am glad to learn that you are happy with the extra value that gaff card provides...am very proud of it too, for so many good magic effects are possible with just 1 card...but I still think Coterie Bee is at least as durable as White Lions, if not more... ;)

@ Don, too bad USPCC refused to print that KH gaff anymore, otherwise KH Gaff refills will be available as an item at Coterie.

Lawrence gave me all three decks: Blue, Red and Green before my trip to Toronto last month, he used metallic ink on the Green deck,
though, not sure Green deck will be more expensive than the other two colors.

Coterie will be make them available for pre-order next week.

Awesome - thanks for the inside tip!

I know, judging from what I've seen and heard, that Zenneth doesn't exaggerate when he says this could be a potential game changer for people looking to create new playing card designs.

Zenneth - it's not IMPOSSIBLE to have that back made elsewhere.  The trademarks they're trying to defend are arguably indefensible due to dilution, and there's no existing copyright.  All the designs are public domain because of how old they are and what current copyright law states.  It's an issue you'd have to discuss with a lawyer, and you'd have to be willing to endure the inevitable legal complications, however.
Solution: Home made playing card maker!
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: sr15 on January 12, 2013, 07:10:16 PM
if nothing else, I'd like to see this deck somewhat force USPCC's hand into developing higher quality cards. Right now it seems like they're the only method to producing any type of deck, and some increased competition in the custom deck market would be great. I wouldn't really bank on that but one can always hope.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 12, 2013, 11:37:29 PM
if nothing else, I'd like to see this deck somewhat force USPCC's hand into developing higher quality cards. Right now it seems like they're the only method to producing any type of deck, and some increased competition in the custom deck market would be great. I wouldn't really bank on that but one can always hope.

There's a good handful of other manufacturers out there, but USPC is the market's 800-pound gorilla (at least in the US, and in Europe through their Fournier subsidiary).

It might not force USPC's hand at all - but it might draw some business from them.  The thing is, though, with all their mass-produced decks and casino business, they could easily shutter the entire Custom Department and not lose a wink of sleep over it as regards their bottom line.  It's literally just a drop in the bucket for them.  Maybe more like a drop in a large swimming pool...

There's a number of benefits to using USPC, but there's also a number of serious drawbacks.  Among the many problems are legal issues regarding their no-longer-copyrighted trademarks, scheduling problems, defects in manufacturing caused not by accidents but by sheer carelessness and lack of attention to what has been contracted for the job, standards and practices that change with the blowing of the wind and a near-total lack of research and development.  Perhaps one or two of those problems could be dealt with, but take all of that and it gives one pause.

I mean no offense when I say this, but there are times when I hear stories of what some designers had to endure and I being to wonder if any three of the board members are named Moe, Larry and Curly.  We're talking about the company whose casino business work is so secure, but that allowed marked playing cards into the 2011 WSOP - it was later learned that someone involved in the design department was bribed by two of the players.

But anyway, back on topic - knowing that Coterie1902.com will be carrying them is good news.  It means that if CARC does an exclusivity deal for their members, there will be another source from which to get the decks.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: hecrob on January 13, 2013, 12:52:02 AM
"Coterie will carry them too"

Which is good and bad, because of the extremely high price of their cards (and their shipping), they will probably be really expensive.

I might say, probably as high as the coterie bees were.

For me (I live in México) its bad news.

I can only hope that maybe the price is not that bad (maybe 4.95 + shipping per deck) or the CARC handles them in affordable deals (1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 12, 16 and 24 would be good options).

I just hope i can get at least 12 decks.

Im eagerly waiting for the pre-release to actually "release" lol
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 13, 2013, 01:47:40 AM
"Coterie will carry them too"

Which is good and bad, because of the extremely high price of their cards (and their shipping), they will probably be really expensive.

I might say, probably as high as the coterie bees were.

For me (I live in México) its bad news.

I can only hope that maybe the price is not that bad (maybe 4.95 + shipping per deck) or the CARC handles them in affordable deals (1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 12, 16 and 24 would be good options).

I just hope i can get at least 12 decks.

Im eagerly waiting for the pre-release to actually "release" lol

From everything I've heard about this deck, it was made at a much lower cost than a USPC deck and that some of those savings are being passed on to the customers.  Coterie1902 prices are better than you think they are, once you realize that shipping's usually INCLUDED in the price.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: hecrob on January 13, 2013, 01:56:31 AM
Oh i knew that...

the thing is that for me the Design didnt justify spending 126 dollars shipping included for 12 decks.

Since reviews said nothing special about the cards... i couldn't get myself to buy them, the box wasnt enough (and in comparison there were many other awesome boxes in the market) and that was the selling point.

I dont want to bash the coterie bees, but i guess i will have to wait and see if they will offer something justified in price.

Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 13, 2013, 02:08:16 AM
Oh i knew that...

the thing is that for me the Design didnt justify spending 126 dollars shipping included for 12 decks.

Since reviews said nothing special about the cards... i couldn't get myself to buy them, the box wasnt enough (and in comparison there were many other awesome boxes in the market) and that was the selling point.

I dont want to bash the coterie bees, but i guess i will have to wait and see if they will offer something justified in price.

The deck was worth it.  Still is worth it.  And now you can buy some along with pre-ordering the Legends decks, should you choose to do so.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: sr15 on January 13, 2013, 04:35:59 AM
where do you see a legends deck preorder?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 13, 2013, 06:01:01 AM
where do you see a legends deck preorder?

Perhaps my use of "now" was taken out of context.  Sometime between now and the end of the week, pre-orders begin.  I used "now" to refer to having a new opportunity to get the Bee Coterie deck in conjuction with a pre-order of Legends.  "Soon" would likely have been a better choice of word.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Zenneth on January 13, 2013, 10:55:29 PM
@ hecrob Coterie Bee decks were parimiarly designed for magicians, I tried my best to provide more value with the deck by getting a gaff card that could be a stand alone item to go with it, we made videos to show 3 applications with it, I think these tutorial videos already making our deck worthy of its price. I understand there are many good looking tuckcase design out there, but don't you think Coterie Bee tuckcase design goes particularly well with black suits? I believe professional magicians will appreciate this.

Quite a few buck that you pay for the deck went to shipping(registered airmail from Hong Kong), so you are not actually paying that much for the deck alone. Unfortunately, it's the international shipping that makes this deck appear to be so expensive(nothing much we could do about this, it's the same for Asians trying to buy exclusive decks from US, we pay alot for shipping too)

Anyway, thanks to a mistake by USPCC, we will be able to make the next edition available at cheaper price.

@ Don, yes, what they save at the production cost with Legends will pass onto customers, we also worked out some deals to sell Legends along with Coterie Bee(coterie mailing box is designed to best pack 4,8 or 12 decks, so that's a hint of how these decks will be made available)  I am still waiting for Lawrence to provide me with the press kit, but I will try to make prices available in these two days, so that customers will have an idea about the various options. 

 
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: anep21 on January 14, 2013, 05:49:47 AM
will anyone who received the decks do a video review or trailer? i hope i can see how good the decks are before the release. thanks
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Zenneth on January 14, 2013, 10:50:53 AM
Quicker than we have expected, pre-order starts now:

Legends

http://coterie1902.com/products/playing-cards/legends-playing-cards-lawrence-sullivan

Legends + Coterie Bee set

http://coterie1902.com/products/playing-cards/legends-playing-cards-coterie-bee-playing-cards-set

Cheers,
Zenneth
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: MrMollusk on January 14, 2013, 10:55:11 AM
Quicker than we have expected, pre-order starts now:

Legends

http://coterie1902.com/products/playing-cards/legends-playing-cards-lawrence-sullivan

Legends + Coterie Bee set

http://coterie1902.com/products/playing-cards/legends-playing-cards-coterie-bee-playing-cards-set

Cheers,
Zenneth

Holy---
Those prices are awesome!
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: hecrob on January 14, 2013, 11:16:43 AM
@ hecrob Coterie Bee decks were parimiarly designed for magicians, I tried my best to provide more value with the deck by getting a gaff card that could be a stand alone item to go with it, we made videos to show 3 applications with it, I think these tutorial videos already making our deck worthy of its price. I understand there are many good looking tuckcase design out there, but don't you think Coterie Bee tuckcase design goes particularly well with black suits? I believe professional magicians will appreciate this.

Quite a few buck that you pay for the deck went to shipping(registered airmail from Hong Kong), so you are not actually paying that much for the deck alone. Unfortunately, it's the international shipping that makes this deck appear to be so expensive(nothing much we could do about this, it's the same for Asians trying to buy exclusive decks from US, we pay alot for shipping too)

Anyway, thanks to a mistake by USPCC, we will be able to make the next edition available at cheaper price.

@ Don, yes, what they save at the production cost with Legends will pass onto customers, we also worked out some deals to sell Legends along with Coterie Bee(coterie mailing box is designed to best pack 4,8 or 12 decks, so that's a hint of how these decks will be made available)  I am still waiting for Lawrence to provide me with the press kit, but I will try to make prices available in these two days, so that customers will have an idea about the various options. 

 

Wow after seeing the packages for the preorder of the legends deck you literally shut my mouth... 155 (shipping included) for  24 decks its a steal...

Im considering buying from you now, and i could get my hands on some legends + coteries...

For the guys who haven't seen it, the packages are:

Legends Playing Cards & Coterie Bee Playing Cards Set

4 Deck Set -- 3 x Legends Playing Cards + 1 x Coterie Bee Playing Cards
8 Deck Set -- 6 x Legends Playing Cards + 2 x Coterie Bee Playing Cards
12 Deck Set - 9 x Legends Playing Cards + 3 x Coterie Bee Playing Cards
24 Deck Set - 18 x Legends Playing Cards + 6 x Coterie Bee Playing Cards

Damn im so tempted...

Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: sr15 on January 14, 2013, 11:21:58 AM
Quicker than we have expected, pre-order starts now:

Legends

http://coterie1902.com/products/playing-cards/legends-playing-cards-lawrence-sullivan

Legends + Coterie Bee set

http://coterie1902.com/products/playing-cards/legends-playing-cards-coterie-bee-playing-cards-set

Cheers,
Zenneth

Holy---
Those prices are awesome!

yeah..."awesome" isn't the word I'd use to describe those prices at all considering this whole time the idea that these decks were going to be cheaper than the standard USPCC custom decks was driven home.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: danktrees on January 14, 2013, 11:56:39 AM

Quite a few buck that you pay for the deck went to shipping(registered airmail from Hong Kong), so you are not actually paying that much for the deck alone. Unfortunately, it's the international shipping that makes this deck appear to be so expensive(nothing much we could do about this, it's the same for Asians trying to buy exclusive decks from US, we pay alot for shipping too)


while I certainly understand the cost of shipping. the problem remains that since each item includes shipping costs, there are no volume discounts. for example, if I order 2 bricks of legends and an extra coterie deck, the coterie deck still costs 13 bucks so I would be charged the regular shipping price for that deck even though it most likely does not increase the shipping cost at all when ordered with 2 bricks of cards.

I understand I can order those decks together in a package but I was merely using that order as an example.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: MrMollusk on January 14, 2013, 12:02:59 PM
Quicker than we have expected, pre-order starts now:

Legends

http://coterie1902.com/products/playing-cards/legends-playing-cards-lawrence-sullivan

Legends + Coterie Bee set

http://coterie1902.com/products/playing-cards/legends-playing-cards-coterie-bee-playing-cards-set

Cheers,
Zenneth

Holy---
Those prices are awesome!

yeah..."awesome" isn't the word I'd use to describe those prices at all considering this whole time the idea that these decks were going to be cheaper than the standard USPCC custom decks was driven home.

But look at the shipping. Not to mention that the handling is suppost to be phenomenal. I think it's still a pretty nice deal in lieu of all those other preorders.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: danktrees on January 14, 2013, 12:08:10 PM
on top of which you can pick up two bricks and get the fan back set for 25 which is just sweet.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: John B. on January 14, 2013, 12:08:36 PM
$25 for 3 deck and shipping. I am so getting this when I get paid.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Angel_magic on January 14, 2013, 12:32:23 PM
Does anyone know if Blaine is going to sell these on his website?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Zenneth on January 14, 2013, 01:28:17 PM

Quite a few buck that you pay for the deck went to shipping(registered airmail from Hong Kong), so you are not actually paying that much for the deck alone. Unfortunately, it's the international shipping that makes this deck appear to be so expensive(nothing much we could do about this, it's the same for Asians trying to buy exclusive decks from US, we pay alot for shipping too)


while I certainly understand the cost of shipping. the problem remains that since each item includes shipping costs, there are no volume discounts. for example, if I order 2 bricks of legends and an extra coterie deck, the coterie deck still costs 13 bucks so I would be charged the regular shipping price for that deck even though it most likely does not increase the shipping cost at all when ordered with 2 bricks of cards.

I understand I can order those decks together in a package but I was merely using that order as an example.

First of all, thank you guys for the support and I believe you guys will be very happy with your purchase, this is no doubt one of the best deals in year 2013 for playing cards community.

We really trying to offer the best we could with this pre-order, 3 decks Legends is $25 USD shipping included, 3 Legends + 1 Coterie Bee is $34 USD shipping included, which means we charge $9USD for a deck of Coterie Bee(and its shipping), so you see that we are clearly not charging $13USD a deck for Coterie Bee.

And yes, $25USD a pair of Black and White New Fan Back offer is still applicable for order amount over $100USD.

Cheers,
Zenneth
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: danktrees on January 14, 2013, 01:34:14 PM

Quite a few buck that you pay for the deck went to shipping(registered airmail from Hong Kong), so you are not actually paying that much for the deck alone. Unfortunately, it's the international shipping that makes this deck appear to be so expensive(nothing much we could do about this, it's the same for Asians trying to buy exclusive decks from US, we pay alot for shipping too)


while I certainly understand the cost of shipping. the problem remains that since each item includes shipping costs, there are no volume discounts. for example, if I order 2 bricks of legends and an extra coterie deck, the coterie deck still costs 13 bucks so I would be charged the regular shipping price for that deck even though it most likely does not increase the shipping cost at all when ordered with 2 bricks of cards.

I understand I can order those decks together in a package but I was merely using that order as an example.

First of all, thank you guys for the support and I believe you guys will be very happy with your purchase, this is no doubt one of the best deals in year 2013 for playing cards community.

We really trying to offer the best we could with this pre-order, 3 decks Legends is $25 USD shipping included, 3 Legends + 1 Coterie Bee is $34 USD shipping included, which means we charge $9USD for a deck of Coterie Bee(and its shipping), so you see that we are clearly not charging $13USD a deck for Coterie Bee.

And yes, $25USD a pair of Black and White New Fan Back offer is still applicable for order amount over $100USD.

Cheers,
Zenneth

I understand the bundle costs. but my point is that if you want to pick up and extra single deck or two, the cost of the deck is 13 even though it wouldn't actually increase the shipping costs when purchasing 12 or 24 other decks. ultimately it's not a huge deal cuz its at most 4-10 dollars extra but it's something to consider as more products are added to the site.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: sr15 on January 14, 2013, 01:47:22 PM
this is no doubt one of the best deals in year 2013 for playing cards community.

only if you compare this deal to some of the other massively overpriced releases this year.

Honestly, given that "lower costs than USPCC" was one of the main talking points about this deck, I feel like there will be a better deal on these cards from some other seller eventually. I'll hold off on this for now, although if this ends up being the best deal then I guess I'll take it because I really do want this deck.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Zenneth on January 14, 2013, 01:57:49 PM

Quite a few buck that you pay for the deck went to shipping(registered airmail from Hong Kong), so you are not actually paying that much for the deck alone. Unfortunately, it's the international shipping that makes this deck appear to be so expensive(nothing much we could do about this, it's the same for Asians trying to buy exclusive decks from US, we pay alot for shipping too)


while I certainly understand the cost of shipping. the problem remains that since each item includes shipping costs, there are no volume discounts. for example, if I order 2 bricks of legends and an extra coterie deck, the coterie deck still costs 13 bucks so I would be charged the regular shipping price for that deck even though it most likely does not increase the shipping cost at all when ordered with 2 bricks of cards.

I understand I can order those decks together in a package but I was merely using that order as an example.

First of all, thank you guys for the support and I believe you guys will be very happy with your purchase, this is no doubt one of the best deals in year 2013 for playing cards community.

We really trying to offer the best we could with this pre-order, 3 decks Legends is $25 USD shipping included, 3 Legends + 1 Coterie Bee is $34 USD shipping included, which means we charge $9USD for a deck of Coterie Bee(and its shipping), so you see that we are clearly not charging $13USD a deck for Coterie Bee.

And yes, $25USD a pair of Black and White New Fan Back offer is still applicable for order amount over $100USD.

Cheers,
Zenneth

I understand the bundle costs. but my point is that if you want to pick up and extra single deck or two, the cost of the deck is 13 even though it wouldn't actually increase the shipping costs when purchasing 12 or 24 other decks. ultimately it's not a huge deal cuz its at most 4-10 dollars extra but it's something to consider as more products are added to the site.

I see your point now, will think this over and see if we could come up with something for this kind of order.

Thanks for the advice!
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Frost on January 14, 2013, 02:48:37 PM
I already ordered mine i got six decks for $50 . hey zenneth are you going to email us the tracking numbers or do we need to make a account on your website ?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: DrianAbara on January 14, 2013, 05:32:46 PM
I missed out on the Legends deck deals on their own :(
They sold out so quickly!
Have to get the Legends + Coterie Bee decks deal instead. Oh well Legends with CBees are better than no Legends at all!
CAN'T WAIT
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: sway on January 14, 2013, 05:52:56 PM
This offer from Coterie is specially good for people outside the US. You know, we are kind of used to high S&H prices. The total price from Coterie, in other hand, make it really worth it buying larger quantities.

I'm also very pleased by the opportunity to grab a few Coterie Bees as well.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Michael on January 14, 2013, 06:22:20 PM
I missed out on the Legends deck deals on their own :(
They sold out so quickly!
Have to get the Legends + Coterie Bee decks deal instead. Oh well Legends with CBees are better than no Legends at all!
CAN'T WAIT

Sold out on the Coterie site (Legends "package" alone)? Wonder if they'll be sold on DB's site or even CARC... Hopefully!
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: DrianAbara on January 14, 2013, 07:31:00 PM
This offer from Coterie is specially good for people outside the US. You know, we are kind of used to high S&H prices. The total price from Coterie, in other hand, make it really worth it buying larger quantities.

I'm also very pleased by the opportunity to grab a few Coterie Bees as well.
The only problem is that I already have around 10 Coterie Bee decks :P I don't go through decks very fast though, I like to prolong my decks' lives and take care of them and their boxes, which is why I am so intrigued by the supposed quality and durability of the Legends deck.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 15, 2013, 01:00:38 AM
I swapped some email with Lawrence Sullivan.

They opted on the release version of Legends to stick with the prototype box instead of the heavily-embossed matte boxes shown in some of the photos.  The thinking there was that the box's plastic coating would make the box a little water-resistant, great for when you're performing at a bar or restaurant setting.  I think it would also survive placement in a Porper clip better as well - mine in and out of their Porpers look great.

Yes, the green deck has metallic ink, unlike the blue and red.

CARC will be carrying them.  Bill Kalush gets his batch this week.  Though honestly, I think you'd be very hard-pressed to find a deal better than the ones Zenneth is offering.  I picked up a total of four Coterie Bee + Legends sets and three Gold Seal NFB deck sets.  The prices I got on all of those items are very hard to pass up.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Frost on January 15, 2013, 01:10:10 AM
do we need a account from coterie in order to track my order or will they email us the tracking number ?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: sr15 on January 15, 2013, 01:57:36 AM
I swapped some email with Lawrence Sullivan.

They opted on the release version of Legends to stick with the prototype box instead of the heavily-embossed matte boxes shown in some of the photos.  The thinking there was that the box's plastic coating would make the box a little water-resistant, great for when you're performing at a bar or restaurant setting.  I think it would also survive placement in a Porper clip better as well - mine in and out of their Porpers look great.

Yes, the green deck has metallic ink, unlike the blue and red.

CARC will be carrying them.  Bill Kalush gets his batch this week.  Though honestly, I think you'd be very hard-pressed to find a deal better than the ones Zenneth is offering.  I picked up a total of four Coterie Bee + Legends sets and three Gold Seal NFB deck sets.  The prices I got on all of those items are very hard to pass up.

well, for people like me who didn't want to buy in bulk and only wanted 2 of each color (which is actually kinda "bulk"), 50 bucks total for 6 supposedly less costly decks just didn't seem like that great of a deal
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 15, 2013, 02:43:48 AM
do we need a account from coterie in order to track my order or will they email us the tracking number ?

Go to the My Account page and you'll see a tab for requesting a new password if you can't remember it.  Your user name is the same as the email address you gave for the purchase.  Zenneth uses Hong Kong Registered Mail, which should be trackable worldwide, but I'm not certain if he posts the tracking info on the account page.  I suspect he doesn't, but if you make an inquiry on their contact page they'll probably give you the number.

well, for people like me who didn't want to buy in bulk and only wanted 2 of each color (which is actually kinda "bulk"), 50 bucks total for 6 supposedly less costly decks just didn't seem like that great of a deal

So, $8.33 per deck INCLUDING WORLDWIDE SHIPPING is not a deal as far as you're concerned for a custom deck?  Shipped by Registered Mail?

Just as a random example, I went to Ellusionist and placed an order for six Artifice decks.  Normally $6.99, I got 10% for getting 3 "green/blue combos".  With the discount, the decks are $37.74, but the cheapest available shipping is $11.07, making the total $48.81, just $1.19 from the cost of the Legends, from a company that's in my own country...  Considering the higher quality of the Legends, they're worth the difference.

Without the combo discount, that supposedly cheaper deck now costs $41.94.  Assuming shipping doesn't change, the new total is $53.01.  Not looking as cheap anymore, is it?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: sr15 on January 15, 2013, 03:02:31 AM
Ellusionist shipping is a complete ripoff, so that comparison is kind of weak.

as a counter-example, 6 decks shipped from the1eyedjack.com is 5.95.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 15, 2013, 03:48:37 AM
Ellusionist shipping is a complete ripoff, so that comparison is kind of weak.

as a counter-example, 6 decks shipped from the1eyedjack.com is 5.95.

Six $6.99 decks from the1eyedjack.com = $35.70
Shipping @ $5.95 brings that to $41.65.

But you're still neglecting the facts that 1) this is a better deck and 2) he's shipping from the same country as you, while Coterie isn't.  Plus his selection is a bit more limited - he's not even carrying the Bee Coterie deck, never mind the Legends deck.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: sr15 on January 15, 2013, 03:52:43 AM
well we already know for certain that Coterie won't be the only place having these in stock, so I'm choosing to avoid the high shipping costs from Hong Kong. Also I have my doubts that this deck will be going as high as 7 dollars each on other sites. Perhaps I'm too optimistic. I guess we'll find out
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: agera94 on January 15, 2013, 03:57:35 AM
well we already know for certain that Coterie won't be the only place having these in stock, so I'm choosing to avoid the high shipping costs from Hong Kong. Also I have my doubts that this deck will be going as high as 7 dollars each on other sites. Perhaps I'm too optimistic. I guess we'll find out

You get international shipping that comes within 7 days for about as much as domestic shipping within the US. What is there to complain about?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 15, 2013, 04:12:39 AM
well we already know for certain that Coterie won't be the only place having these in stock, so I'm choosing to avoid the high shipping costs from Hong Kong. Also I have my doubts that this deck will be going as high as 7 dollars each on other sites. Perhaps I'm too optimistic. I guess we'll find out

You get international shipping that comes within 7 days for about as much as domestic shipping within the US. What is there to complain about?

Eh, let him do as he pleases.  If we're right, he'll be kicking himself in the pants later.  If not, we'll be the kickers of our own pants...  He'll willing to wager he's right, that's all.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: agera94 on January 15, 2013, 06:10:18 AM
well we already know for certain that Coterie won't be the only place having these in stock, so I'm choosing to avoid the high shipping costs from Hong Kong. Also I have my doubts that this deck will be going as high as 7 dollars each on other sites. Perhaps I'm too optimistic. I guess we'll find out

You get international shipping that comes within 7 days for about as much as domestic shipping within the US. What is there to complain about?

Eh, let him do as he pleases.  If we're right, he'll be kicking himself in the pants later.  If not, we'll be the kickers of our own pants...  He'll willing to wager he's right, that's all.

I have hung out my pants in anticipation of the 1% chance I will have to kick them.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Paul.Middleton on January 15, 2013, 11:34:03 AM
We'll be stocking them too :)

http://jpplayingcards.co.uk/legends-no.852-playing-cards
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: blastercast on January 15, 2013, 12:16:55 PM
Quote
We'll be stocking them too 
Ordering tonight, two sets :D 3 sealed 3 to use :D :D :D
So excited
Can I ask why the discount code is not working any more? Thank you, I'm trying to save money to take to blackpool :')
-Benny
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Paul.Middleton on January 15, 2013, 12:29:44 PM
Hi Benny,

The code you used is actually 1 per customer. I'll drop you a DM on Twitter now :)
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: hecrob on January 15, 2013, 01:48:11 PM
I ended up buying an 8 pack

If the decks are cool i will buy some more decks from the Conjuring Arts folks...

Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: DC on January 17, 2013, 02:27:15 AM
Just came back from holiday, but found these Legends Decks are all OUT OF STOCK! :(
Could not found them in the following sites|
DB.com
CARC (non member)

The followings sites are out of stocks:
Coterie1902
JP Playing Cards

Could someone kindly tell me where can I order them please? Am I too late?
I am in Australia and would like to get all three colors.

Many Thanks!

Regards,
Doris
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Michael on January 17, 2013, 02:45:04 AM
Just came back from holiday, but found these Legends Decks are all OUT OF STOCK! :(
Could not found them in the following sites|
DB.com
CARC (non member)

The followings sites are out of stocks:
Coterie1902
JP Playing Cards

Could someone kindly tell me where can I order them please? Am I too late?
I am in Australia and would like to get all three colors.

Many Thanks!

Regards,
Doris

At the moment those two sites were the only ones that sold the Legends decks. CARC should be selling them soon (I'm guessing the next two weeks for sure) so just look out for that. I think Don mentioned above that Bill Kalush was getting his lot to sell this week. Just keep an eye out on this thread!
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: agera94 on January 17, 2013, 04:30:55 AM
Just came back from holiday, but found these Legends Decks are all OUT OF STOCK! :(
Could not found them in the following sites|
DB.com
CARC (non member)

The followings sites are out of stocks:
Coterie1902
JP Playing Cards

Could someone kindly tell me where can I order them please? Am I too late?
I am in Australia and would like to get all three colors.

Many Thanks!

Regards,
Doris

Doris, have you tried ordering the Coterie bundles. I believe the bundle of 4 decks was sold out, but I was able to order 12 decks so 3 of each Legends Deck and 3 Coterie decks.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 17, 2013, 09:01:53 AM

Doris, have you tried ordering the Coterie bundles. I believe the bundle of 4 decks was sold out, but I was able to order 12 decks so 3 of each Legends Deck and 3 Coterie decks.

Anything with a Legends deck in it over at coterie1902.com is sold out.  The Bee/Legends combo lasted longer, but it is gone.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Evan on January 17, 2013, 10:00:55 AM
I asked Lawrence when CARC would have them and he said hopefully by next month. It will be a real release, and not a pre-order.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 17, 2013, 10:15:54 AM
I asked Lawrence when CARC would have them and he said hopefully by next month. It will be a real release, and not a pre-order.

The big question will be if it's open to the public right away or if, like most of their releases, members get first crack.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: John B. on January 17, 2013, 10:41:44 AM
well I was going to order through coteire but if they are out I guess not. are they going to get more?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: anep21 on January 17, 2013, 11:25:54 AM
I asked Lawrence when CARC would have them and he said hopefully by next month. It will be a real release, and not a pre-order.

damn it. i thought it will be late January. my membership ends this month
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Zenneth on January 17, 2013, 02:02:20 PM
I asked Lawrence when CARC would have them and he said hopefully by next month. It will be a real release, and not a pre-order.

I too thought offcial sale wll be able to start this month, but apparently there will be a little bit of delay in shipping, hmmm...

Anyway, judging from the speed of pre-orders placed at Coterie, I must say Legends will soon become (already is...actually) a very sought after deck.

Lawrence doesn't want any of the hidden secrets of Legends to be revealed, but... by the time when people actually start to realise the value of these secrets,
you could probably only be able to find Legends on eBay at several times the initial price.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Paul.Middleton on January 17, 2013, 06:47:47 PM
Just came back from holiday, but found these Legends Decks are all OUT OF STOCK! :(

The followings sites are out of stocks:
Coterie1902
JP Playing Cards

Hey Doris,

I'm not sure about Coterie - but we only put a very small number up for pre-order. We are expecting to take stock within a couple of weeks and will be on sale again then :)
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 17, 2013, 09:32:58 PM
I asked Lawrence when CARC would have them and he said hopefully by next month. It will be a real release, and not a pre-order.

I too thought offcial sale wll be able to start this month, but apparently there will be a little bit of delay in shipping, hmmm...

Anyway, judging from the speed of pre-orders placed at Coterie, I must say Legends will soon become (already is...actually) a very sought after deck.

Lawrence doesn't want any of the hidden secrets of Legends to be revealed, but... by the time when people actually start to realise the value of these secrets,
you could probably only be able to find Legends on eBay at several times the initial price.

Here's to hoping there will be more than just the one edition!
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: hecrob on January 17, 2013, 11:00:18 PM
I asked Lawrence when CARC would have them and he said hopefully by next month. It will be a real release, and not a pre-order.

I too thought offcial sale wll be able to start this month, but apparently there will be a little bit of delay in shipping, hmmm...

Anyway, judging from the speed of pre-orders placed at Coterie, I must say Legends will soon become (already is...actually) a very sought after deck.

Lawrence doesn't want any of the hidden secrets of Legends to be revealed, but... by the time when people actually start to realise the value of these secrets,
you could probably only be able to find Legends on eBay at several times the initial price.


Are there many secrets in this deck?? I saw the back of the cards but i cant see any kind of marking (Ala white lions) so, maybe the secrets are on the court cards??
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 18, 2013, 09:24:49 AM
I asked Lawrence when CARC would have them and he said hopefully by next month. It will be a real release, and not a pre-order.

I too thought offcial sale wll be able to start this month, but apparently there will be a little bit of delay in shipping, hmmm...

Anyway, judging from the speed of pre-orders placed at Coterie, I must say Legends will soon become (already is...actually) a very sought after deck.

Lawrence doesn't want any of the hidden secrets of Legends to be revealed, but... by the time when people actually start to realise the value of these secrets,
you could probably only be able to find Legends on eBay at several times the initial price.


Are there many secrets in this deck?? I saw the back of the cards but i cant see any kind of marking (Ala white lions) so, maybe the secrets are on the court cards??

The deck has MANY hidden features in it, in various places.  I've found some of them, and they're all over the place.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Siegismyname on January 18, 2013, 10:40:54 AM
I bought a few of these, but just wanna know how the courts look like before getting them.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 18, 2013, 11:01:15 AM
I bought a few of these, but just wanna know how the courts look like before getting them.

They're a lot like Blaine's courts - standard in appearance but with custom faces on them, probably people Lawrence knows.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Siegismyname on January 18, 2013, 11:08:32 PM
Great to now that. Are you guys not suppose to reveal any more pictures yet? that would hype this deck even more.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: DC on January 19, 2013, 12:50:28 AM
@mchoi22, @agera94
Thank you very much for your kind reply! :)

@JPMiddleton,
Thanks for the info.
I will wait for your site to restock. Please kindly let me know once these Legends Decks go on sale in your store!
Thank you! :)

Regards,
Doris
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 19, 2013, 01:02:27 AM
Great to now that. Are you guys not suppose to reveal any more pictures yet? that would hype this deck even more.

You don't actually think that this deck needs MORE hype, do you?  :))  People are already itching to see this and it sold out lightning fast on pre-orders at the Coterie and JP's site.  CARC hasn't even put theirs on sale yet.

Y'know how people brag about a deck being rare, when meanwhile there's 5,000 decks made?  Sure that's rare, but this had a print run of 3,888 in each color - and I'm certain the three eights are there intentionally, as many Asians consider it to be a lucky number.  More rare than BG1E, more rare than GA, more rare than RA...
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: sr15 on January 19, 2013, 01:50:44 AM
really, Don? Weren't you just a while ago making the case that smaller number deck runs mean less and less now as far as value go? And 3,888 x 3 is over twice the run of the decks you just mentioned. These past couple of pages just seem like a big huge advertisement for the deck, and that's not really a huge stretch considering you got the deck early, so it's not unlikely that you're biased towards it.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 19, 2013, 02:14:52 AM
really, Don? Weren't you just a while ago making the case that smaller number deck runs mean less and less now as far as value go? And 3,888 x 3 is over twice the run of the decks you just mentioned. These past couple of pages just seem like a big huge advertisement for the deck, and that's not really a huge stretch considering you got the deck early, so it's not unlikely that you're biased towards it.

See, now, the problem with your statement is that you quoted my discussion about the value of rare cards when I was simply writing about the RARITY of rare cards, not the value.  That kinda sucks the wind out of those sails, doesn't it?  3,888 of each color means that there's 3,888 of each color - you're lumping them together when they're really separate, much like Zen Kok's Gold Seal New Fan Backs or the Ornate decks.  The fact that there are 11,664 in total does nothing to change the fact that only 3,888 of each color exist, just as the fact that 6,000 GSNFBs were made doesn't change that there's 5,000 black decks and 1,000 white ones.  By your argument, the Gold Arcane deck's print run numbers should be the total of all runs for all three versions of the deck: gold, black and white.  Same for the Artifice deck in red - there's now five different versions of that deck.  But that's not how people consider a deck's rarity.

I'm talking about this deck a lot because it's a good deck.  I get no payments for it, I could have kept the cards without even so much as a thank you and said nothing about them.  For a while, I did say nothing - only after Evan let the cat out of the bag did I say anything of substance about this deck, other than knowing it wasn't made by USPC.  But I didn't remain silent because I feel they're that good.

I don't think you understand what a game changer this can become.  For a long time now, deck designers who wanted quality usually had to go to USPC or get an inferior deck.  They had to jump through hoops, put up with delays or getting bumped from the schedule and even be delivered inferior work that's not what was promised in the contract despite the Q1 level of quality control, all due to someone being asleep at the switch.  At the same time, decks made in Asia, China in particular, always get a bum rap because of low quality.

Here we have an Asian-made deck with a quality that I feel exceeds the quality that USPC's been producing of late.  This could be the deck that starts the trend toward breaking USPC's nearly monopolistic hold on the custom deck market.  Designers would finally have a viable alternative to USPC to get their decks made.  All that remains is market acceptance, which judging from pre-sales isn't going to be a big issue.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: sr15 on January 19, 2013, 02:29:19 AM
it's funny because in this very thread you said "USPCC could easily shutter the entire Custom Department and not lose a wink of sleep over it as regards their bottom line.  It's literally just a drop in the bucket for them.  Maybe more like a drop in a large swimming pool..."

and honestly that's where my biggest problem is with you saying it. You're flip-flopping all over the place. You say it could be a game changer but also say that USPCC couldn't care less. You say it's rarer than other decks but have said that rarity means less when there's so many limited run decks coming out now. Also I was a apprehensive of Zenneth making a huge deal out of "all of the secrets" like it's actually a big deal. There's no consistency when you talk about this deck compared to other decks, and I feel like I'm being fed marketing on these past couple of pages.

And I'm well aware of what a game-changer it could be, considering I brought it up well before you did in this thread.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: twiscold on January 19, 2013, 03:47:14 AM
I dont think Don is flip-flopping. This deck is a game changer for designer because they have a alternative manufacture. However USPCC would not care much since its primary business is Bicycle/Bee line and all those casino deals.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Angel_magic on January 19, 2013, 04:34:08 AM
See, now, the problem with your statement is that you quoted my discussion about the value of rare cards when I was simply writing about the RARITY of rare cards, not the value.  That kinda sucks the wind out of those sails, doesn't it?  3,888 of each color means that there's 3,888 of each color - you're lumping them together when they're really separate, much like Zen Kok's Gold Seal New Fan Backs or the Ornate decks.  The fact that there are 11,664 in total does nothing to change the fact that only 3,888 of each color exist, just as the fact that 6,000 GSNFBs were made doesn't change that there's 5,000 black decks and 1,000 white ones.  By your argument, the Gold Arcane deck's print run numbers should be the total of all runs for all three versions of the deck: gold, black and white.  Same for the Artifice deck in red - there's now five different versions of that deck.  But that's not how people consider a deck's rarity.

I wouldn't say so, I see what sr15 is saying. Because of the fact that all 3 of the decks were released at the same time, they are part of one "version". When decks with similar designs and print runs are released at the same time like that, they tend to accumulate their rarity and print run numbers into one lump sum. I'm assuming this was his thought process and so by that logic, he was correct to say that there were 11k (legends v1) decks printed, as he never said there were 11k of a specific color printed, like you implied with the arcane and artifice analogy. Deck versions and deck colors are 2 very different things.

11k IS quite a large print run compared to the 5,000's, 2.500's, and less that alot of modern decks are being printed at.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 19, 2013, 04:57:34 AM
it's funny because in this very thread you said "USPCC could easily shutter the entire Custom Department and not lose a wink of sleep over it as regards their bottom line.  It's literally just a drop in the bucket for them.  Maybe more like a drop in a large swimming pool..."

and honestly that's where my biggest problem is with you saying it. You're flip-flopping all over the place. You say it could be a game changer but also say that USPCC couldn't care less. You say it's rarer than other decks but have said that rarity means less when there's so many limited run decks coming out now. Also I was a apprehensive of Zenneth making a huge deal out of "all of the secrets" like it's actually a big deal. There's no consistency when you talk about this deck compared to other decks, and I feel like I'm being fed marketing on these past couple of pages.

And I'm well aware of what a game-changer it could be, considering I brought it up well before you did in this thread.

Yes, it's absolutely true that USPC wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over closing the Custom Department, since the income they derive from it is probably more like a minor rounding error on Jarden's books.  But deck designers would lose a lot of sleep, for certain.  Regardless of whether USPC could care less or not, deck designers still have to get their decks made - otherwise, it's just a bunch of pretty art sitting on a hard drive somewhere.  The game changer isn't for USPC - it's for the designers, and for consumers looking for quality custom decks that cost less.  Having solid competition might encourage USPC to take more of an interest in how their custom decks are handled, but then again, it sounds like they're making too much money on their main products to really care a lot about it.

Think about it - a typical casino blackjack table can go through a minimum of 8,760 decks of cards a year; a new eight-deck shoe for every shift.  The number goes much higher when you factor in the occasional damaged card or other issues that can force them to replace a shoe earlier than planned.  The actual number is probably closer to 12,000-15,000 decks.  For one table.  And a casino will have dozens if not hundreds of such tables... Assuming a hundred blackjack tables means a casino might use up 1.5 million decks in a single year!  And that's just ONE casino.  When you're talking about such large numbers, somebody's piddling 5,000-deck print run looks like less than a mosquito bite on an adult elephant.

I've heard a few horror stories about companies and individuals going to USPC for what on the surface was a simple press run but ended up with all kinds of errors.  Sure, they'll generally make good on their own screw-ups, but wouldn't it be nicer to not have the screw-ups in the first place?

The secrets of this deck that Zenneth refers to are hidden features of the deck, features that magicians can take advantage of.  Things like reveals, hidden marks, etc.  This deck is packed with them.  One of the reveals has to be among the most clever I've ever seen - I won't say what it is, but it's on the back of the box.

There's not an ounce of flip-flop to be seen anywhere, as stated by Twiscold.  Trust me, sometimes the Kool-Aid is just plain ol', unadulterated Kool-Aid, so feel free to go ahead and drink some...  :))

See, now, the problem with your statement is that you quoted my discussion about the value of rare cards when I was simply writing about the RARITY of rare cards, not the value.  That kinda sucks the wind out of those sails, doesn't it?  3,888 of each color means that there's 3,888 of each color - you're lumping them together when they're really separate, much like Zen Kok's Gold Seal New Fan Backs or the Ornate decks.  The fact that there are 11,664 in total does nothing to change the fact that only 3,888 of each color exist, just as the fact that 6,000 GSNFBs were made doesn't change that there's 5,000 black decks and 1,000 white ones.  By your argument, the Gold Arcane deck's print run numbers should be the total of all runs for all three versions of the deck: gold, black and white.  Same for the Artifice deck in red - there's now five different versions of that deck.  But that's not how people consider a deck's rarity.

I wouldn't say so, I see what sr15 is saying. Because of the fact that all 3 of the decks were released at the same time, they are part of one "version". When decks with similar designs and print runs are released at the same time like that, they tend to accumulate their rarity and print run numbers into one lump sum. I'm assuming this was his thought process and so by that logic, he was correct to say that there were 11k (legends v1) decks printed, as he never said there were 11k of a specific color printed, like you implied with the arcane and artifice analogy. Deck versions and deck colors are 2 very different things.

11k IS quite a large print run compared to the 5,000's, 2.500's, and less that alot of modern decks are being printed at.

At USPC, if you're making a single deck in three colors, that's three different decks made in three different print runs, often with separate contracts.  You might get a discount if all three used the same printing plates for the faces, but it's still handled as three print runs.

The Gold Seal New Fan Backs weren't two versions - they were two colors of the same deck, released pretty much together.  The same is true of the Arcane deck except there's three colors.  If you get down to brass tacks, Smoke and Mirrors versions 4 through 6 were nothing more than two colors, but they were released months apart from each other, so there's wiggle room.

For me, it all boils down to this: if I or any other consumer wanted to get a green deck of Legends, there are only 3,888 of that deck.  If I wanted a blue one, same thing, and again for the red.  Just like if I wanted a red Artifice, there's only 5,000 of those, or a version one blue Artifice, there's however many of those and nothing more.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: hecrob on January 21, 2013, 01:49:12 AM
So the general consensus is to get this deck while it lasts... ???

Im not really sure how the "savings" are transferred to the customer... I know it has been discussed before but 4.95 is the standard low price for a deck on the "major" stores  (T11, E ,D&D), So is this deck going to cost less than 4.95 ? or was this a very expensive one that got a 5 or 6 price because of where it was made???

Im hoping i can get at least a brick of each color.

Now another important thing...

Will the green one be considered "rarer" ?? Because of the metallic ink its more "special" right? maybe it will be the most expensive one after all?



Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 21, 2013, 05:20:33 AM
So the general consensus is to get this deck while it lasts... ???

Im not really sure how the "savings" are transferred to the customer... I know it has been discussed before but 4.95 is the standard low price for a deck on the "major" stores  (T11, E ,D&D), So is this deck going to cost less than 4.95 ? or was this a very expensive one that got a 5 or 6 price because of where it was made???

Im hoping i can get at least a brick of each color.

Now another important thing...

Will the green one be considered "rarer" ?? Because of the metallic ink its more "special" right? maybe it will be the most expensive one after all?

The green decks aren't rarer.  As stated below, there are the exact same amount of each color: 3,888.

I can't speak for what others are charging or will charge, but Coterie1902 had the decks as a three-color set for $25, about $8.33 each.  Sounds expensive, until you remember that he includes shipping by registered mail from Hong Kong.  There were also volume discounts: see below:

Legends Three-Color Sets
3 decks - $25 ($8.33 each)
9 decks - $60 ($6.67 each)
12 decks - $75 ($6.25 each)
24 decks - $139 ($5.79 each)

Legends/Coterie Bee Four-Deck Sets
4 decks - $34 ($8.50 each)
8 decks  - $59 ($7.38 each)
12 decks - $87 ($7.25 each)
24 decks - $155 ($6.46 each)

Coterie Bee, without Legends, costs between $13.00-10.50 a pack depending on amount purchased.  It would be difficult as hell to find prices like that on good domestic decks other than basic always-restocked models like NOC, Masters, R/G/B Crowns, etc - and that's without factoring in shipping!  And these are limited edition decks on top of all that, less than 4,000 of each color made.  Zenneth, a friend of Lawrence Sullivan, stated that one of the key goals with creating this deck with this printer was to be able to offer decks at more sane and reasonable prices - they're saving on the printing and passing on the savings to the consumer.

I'm hoping and crossing fingers that these will be remade in a second edition/print run, but that remains to be seen.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Paul.Middleton on January 21, 2013, 09:58:00 AM
@mchoi22, @agera94
Thank you very much for your kind reply! :)

@JPMiddleton,
Thanks for the info.
I will wait for your site to restock. Please kindly let me know once these Legends Decks go on sale in your store!
Thank you! :)

Regards,
Doris

Hey Doris,

If you put your email address into the product page, you'll be amongst the first to know when these are ready for sale. We have a good amount coming in so I don't anticipate selling out in the first few days, but you never know.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: DC on January 21, 2013, 04:53:12 PM

Hey Doris,

If you put your email address into the product page, you'll be amongst the first to know when these are ready for sale. We have a good amount coming in so I don't anticipate selling out in the first few days, but you never know.

Thanks JP,
Just put my email on both of the product pages. Looking forward to your good news!
Doris
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: john on January 23, 2013, 08:41:01 PM
I'm going to be honest, i'm an extremely lazy man and if this question has been answered already i'm sorry. But can someone please answer the following questions for me:

How long does it take to ship from china to new jersey?
Do we get a tracking number?
Do we get a shipping confirmation.

Thats about it, thanks!
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 23, 2013, 11:02:59 PM
I'm going to be honest, i'm an extremely lazy man and if this question has been answered already i'm sorry. But can someone please answer the following questions for me:

How long does it take to ship from china to new jersey?
Do we get a tracking number?
Do we get a shipping confirmation.

Thats about it, thanks!

If you ordered from the Coterie, it was a pre-order - it hasn't shipped yet.  That will be sometime next month.  Arrival is perhaps two weeks or less, but it's a variable.  If you contact the staff there, I'm sure they'd be glad to track it since all the overseas packages are sent by Registered Mail.  And while it's sort of part of China, Hong Kong is also sort of something else.  It's under Chinese control but has a certain degree of autonomy, sort of like the connection between the United States and the U.S. Virgin Islands or Guam...
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: john on January 23, 2013, 11:17:05 PM
I'm going to be honest, i'm an extremely lazy man and if this question has been answered already i'm sorry. But can someone please answer the following questions for me:

How long does it take to ship from china to new jersey?
Do we get a tracking number?
Do we get a shipping confirmation.

Thats about it, thanks!

If you ordered from the Coterie, it was a pre-order - it hasn't shipped yet.  That will be sometime next month.  Arrival is perhaps two weeks or less, but it's a variable.  If you contact the staff there, I'm sure they'd be glad to track it since all the overseas packages are sent by Registered Mail.  And while it's sort of part of China, Hong Kong is also sort of something else.  It's under Chinese control but has a certain degree of autonomy, sort of like the connection between the United States and the U.S. Virgin Islands or Guam...

Next month? On the page it says January 21st.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Aaron on January 24, 2013, 12:38:24 AM
Are these going to be available anywhere again?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: DrianAbara on January 24, 2013, 11:50:31 AM
Are these going to be available anywhere again?
JP Playing Cards said they'll be stocking it again sometime in the next couple of weeks.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Paul.Middleton on January 24, 2013, 02:29:48 PM
We only made a very small number available for pre-order and will be well stocked in the next couple of weeks.

All orders (and pre-orders over on Coterie too) will all be shipping at the same time; when CARC start shipping. I wish I could tell you the exact date, but i'm not sure myself yet.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Evan on January 24, 2013, 02:42:48 PM
Are these going to be available anywhere again?
CARC will be selling them eventually. I was told that it may be sometime next month.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 24, 2013, 09:54:54 PM
I'm going to be honest, i'm an extremely lazy man and if this question has been answered already i'm sorry. But can someone please answer the following questions for me:

How long does it take to ship from china to new jersey?
Do we get a tracking number?
Do we get a shipping confirmation.

Thats about it, thanks!

If you ordered from the Coterie, it was a pre-order - it hasn't shipped yet.  That will be sometime next month.  Arrival is perhaps two weeks or less, but it's a variable.  If you contact the staff there, I'm sure they'd be glad to track it since all the overseas packages are sent by Registered Mail.  And while it's sort of part of China, Hong Kong is also sort of something else.  It's under Chinese control but has a certain degree of autonomy, sort of like the connection between the United States and the U.S. Virgin Islands or Guam...

Next month? On the page it says January 21st.

...and Zenneth has since said there was a delay in getting the cards and they wouldn't ship until next month.  It's about a page back in this topic.

I'm beginning to wonder if anyone here still reads...  :))
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: john on January 24, 2013, 10:00:37 PM
I'm going to be honest, i'm an extremely lazy man and if this question has been answered already i'm sorry. But can someone please answer the following questions for me:

How long does it take to ship from china to new jersey?
Do we get a tracking number?
Do we get a shipping confirmation.

Thats about it, thanks!

If you ordered from the Coterie, it was a pre-order - it hasn't shipped yet.  That will be sometime next month.  Arrival is perhaps two weeks or less, but it's a variable.  If you contact the staff there, I'm sure they'd be glad to track it since all the overseas packages are sent by Registered Mail.  And while it's sort of part of China, Hong Kong is also sort of something else.  It's under Chinese control but has a certain degree of autonomy, sort of like the connection between the United States and the U.S. Virgin Islands or Guam...

Next month? On the page it says January 21st.

...and Zenneth has since said there was a delay in getting the cards and they wouldn't ship until next month.  It's about a page back in this topic.

I'm beginning to wonder if anyone here still reads...  :))

I told you i'm an extremely lazy man, so obviously you didn't read what i had to say either :P.

And you still didn't answer my original 3 questions :P
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 24, 2013, 10:20:38 PM
I'm going to be honest, i'm an extremely lazy man and if this question has been answered already i'm sorry. But can someone please answer the following questions for me:

How long does it take to ship from china to new jersey?
Do we get a tracking number?
Do we get a shipping confirmation.

Thats about it, thanks!

If you ordered from the Coterie, it was a pre-order - it hasn't shipped yet.  That will be sometime next month.  Arrival is perhaps two weeks or less, but it's a variable.  If you contact the staff there, I'm sure they'd be glad to track it since all the overseas packages are sent by Registered Mail.  And while it's sort of part of China, Hong Kong is also sort of something else.  It's under Chinese control but has a certain degree of autonomy, sort of like the connection between the United States and the U.S. Virgin Islands or Guam...

Next month? On the page it says January 21st.

...and Zenneth has since said there was a delay in getting the cards and they wouldn't ship until next month.  It's about a page back in this topic.

I'm beginning to wonder if anyone here still reads...  :))

I told you i'm an extremely lazy man, so obviously you didn't read what i had to say either :P.

And you still didn't answer my original 3 questions :P

Oooooh-kaaaaaay...

You said
How long does it take to ship from china to new jersey?
I replied
Arrival is perhaps two weeks or less, but it's a variable.

You said
Do we get a tracking number?
I said
If you contact the staff there, I'm sure they'd be glad to track it since all the overseas packages are sent by Registered Mail.

You said
Do we get a shipping confirmation.
To which I ask
Why do you need a shipping confirmation?  That's something the shipper usually asks for!  You want to know when the shipment was received?  Ask the postal carrier before he or she hands it to you!  Be prepared for some quizzical looks...  :))

You can't possibly be THAT lazy!  If so, how are you pressing the keys on the keyboard?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: john on January 24, 2013, 10:25:28 PM
Oooooh-kaaaaaay...

You said
How long does it take to ship from china to new jersey?
I replied
Arrival is perhaps two weeks or less, but it's a variable.

You said
Do we get a tracking number?
I said
If you contact the staff there, I'm sure they'd be glad to track it since all the overseas packages are sent by Registered Mail.

You said
Do we get a shipping confirmation.
To which I ask
Why do you need a shipping confirmation?  That's something the shipper usually asks for!  You want to know when the shipment was received?  Ask the postal carrier before he or she hands it to you!  Be prepared for some quizzical looks...  :))

And this is where i feel like an idiot xD
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 24, 2013, 10:51:27 PM
And this is where i feel like an idiot xD

Welcome to the human race, bro.  :))

If you order from CARC, I think they ship from New York - faster arrival.  Or did you already order at the Coterie?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: john on January 24, 2013, 10:59:03 PM
And this is where i feel like an idiot xD

Welcome to the human race, bro.  :))

If you order from CARC, I think they ship from New York - faster arrival.  Or did you already order at the Coterie?

Already ordered my 2 bricks pack of mixed legends and coterie :(.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Michael on January 25, 2013, 01:37:48 AM
Well I'm hoping CARC will get them soon and put them up for sale! Here's hoping for them to be as affordable (or close to) as offered by Coterie! I'm really regretting not purchasing them from Coterie when I had the chance :(
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Russell CircleCityCards on January 25, 2013, 10:42:17 AM
Well I'm hoping CARC will get them soon and put them up for sale! Here's hoping for them to be as affordable (or close to) as offered by Coterie! I'm really regretting not purchasing them from Coterie when I had the chance :(

They will be cheaper than Coterie. Because of shipping costs, maybe not if ordering 1 deck, but if you will be getting 4+ you save cash.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 25, 2013, 06:12:14 PM
Well I'm hoping CARC will get them soon and put them up for sale! Here's hoping for them to be as affordable (or close to) as offered by Coterie! I'm really regretting not purchasing them from Coterie when I had the chance :(

They will be cheaper than Coterie. Because of shipping costs, maybe not if ordering 1 deck, but if you will be getting 4+ you save cash.

That's great to hear!
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 28, 2013, 03:58:36 AM
Just got the news, courtesy of 52cartes: Legends goes on sale at CARC today at 1pm Eastern!

Starting price is $5.49 members/$5.99 everybody else, with bulk discounts.

Only 1100 of each color in stock!
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Michael on January 28, 2013, 04:19:45 AM
Just got the news: Legends goes on sale at CARC today at 1pm Eastern!

Starting price is $5.49 members/$5.99 everybody else, with bulk discounts.

Only 1100 of each color in stock!

Wow! That's a little sooner than was speculated in earlier posts in this thread. The price is not too bad and if shipping is the normal on CARC ($2 for domestic USA) then it comes out to just barely less than sold on Coterie for non-members. Thanks for the info Mr. Boyer!
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Knobz1 on January 28, 2013, 06:34:50 AM
Just got the news, courtesy of 52cartes: Legends goes on sale at CARC today at 1pm Eastern!

Starting price is $5.49 members/$5.99 everybody else, with bulk discounts.

Only 1100 of each color in stock!
Sweetness!!   I finally get my chance to grab some of these  :P
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Michael on January 28, 2013, 12:51:04 PM
A little early but: http://shop.conjuringarts.org/store/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=44

Prices are for non-members so obviously members would include discount
Individual decks: 5.95USD plus shipping to wherever
Three deck set: 19.99USD with shipping to US included (elsewhere extra)
Three dozen set: 199.00USD with shipping to US included (elsewhere extra)
One gross set (144 decks): 699.00USD with shipping to US included (elsewhere extra)

Picked myself up two three packs and really excited! Comes out to about the price of any other new deck release but not having to pay for shipping makes it much cheaper (especially compared to E or D&Ds' outrageous shipping charges). Also, for the quality of cards I think this is an excellent deal!
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Curt on January 28, 2013, 01:07:04 PM
I picked up the 3 pack, really looking forward to receiving them, haven't bought some new decks in a while. Feels good.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: hecrob on January 28, 2013, 01:12:09 PM
3 dozens are coming to Mexico  :bosswalk:

But it wasnt cheap... For me it was as expensive as any other deck :( no real savings.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: sr15 on January 28, 2013, 01:18:00 PM
Got a couple 3-packs. pretty glad I waited since I ended up saving about ten bucks, although I kinda wish I got a couple of coteries at a discount since I do eventually want that deck. Oh well, I didn't have 60 bucks to spend last time so it all basically worked out
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Michael on January 28, 2013, 01:20:07 PM
Got a couple 3-packs. pretty glad I waited since I ended up saving about ten bucks, although I kinda wish I got a couple of coteries at a discount since I do eventually want that deck. Oh well, I didn't have 60 bucks to spend last time so it all basically worked out

Yeah I definitely know what you mean. I would love to have gotten a Coterie or two cheaper but waiting for these to be released in CARC did save me ten bucks. Feels great that waiting was a good choice! Looking at the pictures closely, especially the comparison of the edges) makes me feel very excited!
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: hecrob on January 28, 2013, 02:11:17 PM
CARC hasn't been able to update its page.

And there are still some legends.... i thought that maybe they would sell out really fast... but 70 minutes later, nothing has happened.


Anyway i hope they send the cards today :)

Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Knobz1 on January 28, 2013, 02:29:04 PM
I just purchased 4 - 3packs like 5 min ago.   Got busy at work and then forgot till I got on back on here.   Whewww.   Glad they were still available.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Frost on January 28, 2013, 02:58:17 PM
I ordered another 3 pack and,one red and one metallic green . plus the one's i ordered from Coterie .

EDIT: does CARC do email conformations of orders because they haven't sent a email to confirm my payment ?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Michael on January 28, 2013, 03:20:44 PM
does CARC do email conformations of orders because they haven't sent a email to confirm my payment ?

The only other thing, other than these decks, that I've ordered from CARC is the silver Bicycles they're offering now. For both orders I received an order confirmation quickly after I placed my payment. I used PayPal cause it was easier but I don't know if that makes a difference at all. With my previous order I got a shipping confirmation but no tracking number. Hope this helps!
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: hecrob on January 28, 2013, 05:02:37 PM
So 5.50 for each deck (before shipping costs) wasnt that great of a deal for me.

I expected something along the lines of 4.95 or maybe 4 with the bulk discount (before shipping).

A single deck costs 7.95!! its severely high for something that was supposed to have "savings passed to the customer"

So im disappointed in that.

The only good news is that in time the deck costs will increase (lets hope).

Until then, this was a hyped up deck with no real "savings" whatsoever...


Also CARC already sent me a tracking number.... that was FAST
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Frost on January 28, 2013, 05:31:04 PM
they still haven't sent me a email confirmation but they all ready charged my credit card for my order ?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Michael on January 28, 2013, 05:57:15 PM
I'm patient enough. I know they'll ship it soon enough! I just can't wait once I get the shipment confirmation!

You could always shoot them an email or call them Frost. I think they're technically still open.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: DrianAbara on January 28, 2013, 06:02:24 PM
Non-member price of $32 for 3 decks with international shipping (£6.67 per deck)?! No thanks, I'll stick to JPplayingcards thanks - only £5.00 per deck. All I have to do is wait :P
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Frost on January 28, 2013, 06:22:45 PM
I'm patient enough. I know they'll ship it soon enough! I just can't wait once I get the shipment confirmation!

You could always shoot them an email or call them Frost. I think they're technically still open.
I already sent them 2 emails like 6 hours ago but no one answers ?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: john on January 28, 2013, 06:32:27 PM
I'm patient enough. I know they'll ship it soon enough! I just can't wait once I get the shipment confirmation!

You could always shoot them an email or call them Frost. I think they're technically still open.
I already sent them 2 emails like 6 hours ago but no one answers ?

Do me a favor, calm down, breathe in, breathe out. Okay now that thats over with you have to know a few things. CARC, like many other US companys, work from 9-5 and have a small number of employees. It is VERY likely that they have almost everyone that works for them packing orders. If they don't respond by 12 tomorrow, then email them again, until then sit back, relax, enjoy a cocktail? and wait.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 29, 2013, 12:28:59 AM
Hey, John, remember you asked me for a photo of my deck?

The decks used in the CARC photos are the same as mine, so the photos appear to have been taken with prototypes before the standard decks arrived.

The way to tell the difference is the diamond pattern on the center of the back.  On the tuck box (and supposedly the stock models) it's an "LS" ambigram (for the magician making this deck, Lawrence Sullivan), while for the prototypes the back image was flipped and the ambigram is no longer readable as such - it just looks like a pretty pattern.

I'm surprised that they didn't just flip the images with the deck backs in them to make them look like the release model...
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Zenneth on January 29, 2013, 03:03:16 PM
Hey guys,

Just a quick update to the pre-orders of Legends at Coterie, we too received our stock a couple hours ago and immediately working on packing.

All pre-orders will be shipped out within this week, until then, we will not relist the new stock on sale.

Cheers,
Zenneth

Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: hecrob on January 29, 2013, 03:59:53 PM
Hey Zenneth, do we get tracking numbers by email??
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Zenneth on January 29, 2013, 04:05:19 PM
Hey Zenneth, do we get tracking numbers by email??

Yes, we are going to do that, I am pretty sure all tracking numbers will be able to sent out on next Monday.

Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: DrianAbara on January 29, 2013, 04:11:35 PM
Hey Zenneth, do we get tracking numbers by email??

Yes, we are going to do that, I am pretty sure all tracking numbers will be able to sent out on next Monday.
Any news on whether you'll be able to restock the Legends decks, Zenneth?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: danktrees on January 29, 2013, 04:26:59 PM
Hey Zenneth, do we get tracking numbers by email??

Yes, we are going to do that, I am pretty sure all tracking numbers will be able to sent out on next Monday.
Any news on whether you'll be able to restock the Legends decks, Zenneth?

he literally just said he won't relist them until preorders have shipped by the end of the week
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Knobz1 on January 29, 2013, 04:44:46 PM
Hey Zenneth, do we get tracking numbers by email??

Yes, we are going to do that, I am pretty sure all tracking numbers will be able to sent out on next Monday.
Any news on whether you'll be able to restock the Legends decks, Zenneth?

he literally just said he won't relist them until preorders have shipped by the end of the week
Like Don had stated many times before.............Its a shame this generation lost its ability to read   :(
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: DrianAbara on January 29, 2013, 04:46:55 PM
Hey Zenneth, do we get tracking numbers by email??

Yes, we are going to do that, I am pretty sure all tracking numbers will be able to sent out on next Monday.
Any news on whether you'll be able to restock the Legends decks, Zenneth?

he literally just said he won't relist them until preorders have shipped by the end of the week
Like Don had stated many times before.............Its a shame this generation lost its ability to read   :(
Oh shit... I can read perfectly well! I'm just a lazy bastard I guess. Even now I am procrastinating doing my biology homework for tomorrow. :P
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: therealmackay on January 29, 2013, 06:21:54 PM
Has anyone got a favourite one of the three colours?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: hecrob on January 29, 2013, 06:37:04 PM
Green, if they are like the SSS from DB they would be great...

btw, my order already shipped and is in transit   :bosswalk:

cant wait for the legends to arrive here!!
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Frost on January 29, 2013, 06:48:29 PM
Mine have already shipped to !!! can't wait to get them .
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: therealmackay on January 30, 2013, 03:06:17 AM
Exciting times - ive got a set of the three colours and three extra decks in Green!

Looking forward to seeing what the fuss is about!
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Paul Carpenter on January 30, 2013, 09:52:32 AM
I too am very interested to get these in hand and see how they are. USPCC has done really great work for me, but having options is always better than not having them. If these decks handle, are registered and packaged like they say, it could be very interesting.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Card Player on January 30, 2013, 07:17:35 PM
I emailed CARC this morning. They got back to me same day. My order was shipping out today. Picked up a brick (4x 3 pack). This makes it my 3rd playing cards purchase released in 2013 (Virtuoso, D&D New Fan Backs & Legends). I'm trying to be more discreet this year with what I buy. I had to have them! Its only January!

Looking forward to finding out how these handle also. I hope the producers of playing cards do their homework before making manufacturing choices. I'm not just talking about using a deck of cards. I'm talking about actually visiting these manufacturers to see what they are doing and how they are doing it.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Michael on January 30, 2013, 08:01:47 PM
I emailed CARC this morning. They got back to me same day. My order was shipping out today. Picked up a brick (4x 3 pack). This makes it my 3rd playing cards purchase released in 2013 (Virtuoso, D&D New Fan Backs & Legends). I'm trying to be more discreet this year with what I buy. I had to have them! Its only January!

Looking forward to finding out how these handle also. I hope the producers of playing cards are do their homework before making manufacturing choices. I'm not just talking about using a deck of cards. I'm talking about actually visiting these manufacturers to see what they are doing and how they are doing it.

I like the way CARC handles business. I've ordered from them three times so far and they've shipped it either the same day or the next day. They also don't over charge for shipping in anything and just overall makes the buying experience enjoyable.

If I am looking at a deck on their site listed at a certain price, I'm paying that amount and just a tad more for shipping. If I'm buying from, say, D&D or Ellusionist, I feel like I'm paying for usually two or three more decks (and this is on small purchases only) due to their outrageous shipping prices. D&D also takes a while to ship (maybe because I ordered during the holiday season.... But which the Legends release I assume CARC would be swamped as well).

Either way, I like ordering from CARC and hope thy keep hosting great products!

(Still can't help myself checking my mailbox immediately after the carrier leaves even though I know I won't get my decks until at least tomorrow or Friday) :D
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 30, 2013, 08:56:17 PM
I emailed CARC this morning. They got back to me same day. My order was shipping out today. Picked up a brick (4x 3 pack). This makes it my 3rd playing cards purchase released in 2013 (Virtuoso, D&D New Fan Backs & Legends). I'm trying to be more discreet this year with what I buy. I had to have them! Its only January!

Looking forward to finding out how these handle also. I hope the producers of playing cards are do their homework before making manufacturing choices. I'm not just talking about using a deck of cards. I'm talking about actually visiting these manufacturers to see what they are doing and how they are doing it.

When the manufacturer's on the other side of the world, that's not always practical...
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Frost on January 31, 2013, 01:12:27 PM
I already got my order from CARC today still haven't opened them yet but going to more later so happy !!!
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: sr15 on January 31, 2013, 02:47:41 PM
I emailed CARC today because I hadn't received any sort of email conformation from them, and they told me that they were having problems with their email system and that my order was already shipped. If anyone was still waiting on an email from them, that might be the reason.

They said it was shipped yesterday so I should have them by tomorrow I think. Maybe today, I haven't checked the mail yet. Either way, I'm pretty damn excited for these cards.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Frost on January 31, 2013, 03:14:03 PM
I just saw something cool in this deck without even opening it. In the back of the deck there is a card reveal its the 8 of diamonds . 
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: kings on January 31, 2013, 04:36:20 PM
I just opened one of my red decks that I got today and the cards weren't in any order. Did anyone else have this. I haven't opened the other 2 colors yet.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: John B. on January 31, 2013, 04:44:08 PM
its possibly a stack. I would keep them in that order till you know for sure.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Michael on January 31, 2013, 05:04:40 PM
Probably is a stack like all of DB's recent decks. But then again if you didn't recognize the stack immediately it's not useful to you. I learned Mneumonica before buying any of DB's decks just to make use of it. I'm personally not really a fan of them though so it doesn't matter to me.

But hey, if you bought the other colors too then you have anther chance at making the stack useful right out of the packaging! :D
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: sr15 on January 31, 2013, 05:30:13 PM
initial impressions of this deck:

- If I had to describe the feel of the deck in relation to a USPCC deck, I'd say aladdins with a magic finish I guess. The cards feel very smooth and slippery. The stock is thinner than most USPCC decks I've handled, and somewhat firm when trying to spring them. Though an individual card feels a bit more flimsy than a regular Bike card.

- The handling out of the box is fairly awful, but after about 25-30 minutes of breaking them in they start to handle pretty well. Fans are pretty standard, springs are pretty standard, the faroing ability is slightly worse than normal USPCC, and the finish on the cards is pretty prominent. Like the cards feel like there's still excess finish on them right out of the box. Not sure what's up with that. I tried doing some flourishes with them, but the slippery finish makes them less useful for that then other decks. Possibly once I break them in more they'll be a bit easier to do cuts with. Sleights are fairly standard with the deck

- I'm a fan of the design of the deck, the back design especially. Faces are fairly standard, except for the Stutzman standard of changing the court card faces. The AoS is a bit bland but still passable, but the jokers are pretty interesting and I actually like the design of them. The back design is packed with detail and I think it looks awesome. There's a ton going on design-wise, so I'm sure there's some sort of marking system hidden in there somewhere. Overall, I'd rate the design positively.

- I found a few of the "secrets" of the deck, and honestly I could take them or leave them. Some of it is clever, like the already mentioned 8 of Diamonds reveal on the back of the box, or the bolding of some pips to act as a kind of one-way back. Some of it is standard, like the joker reveal and the reveal on the bottom of the box. I'm sure there's more to be found in the deck. I certainly wouldn't recommend the deck based on these little secrets alone, but it's an interesting addition to the deck.

Overall, after about 45 minutes of handling I'd rate this deck as above average, right around the same rating I'd give most custom decks from USPCC. The handling is decent after some breaking in, the design is cool, and the "secrets" are a nice addition. I'd recommend picking up 1 or a 3-pack or whatever floats your boat.

Reading over this thread again, I can tell that guys like Zenneth and Don were way overhyping these for whatever reason (marketing purposes? who knows), so I don't think there will be any groundbreaking changes to the playing card industry. If the cost of making them actually is cheaper, which is somewhat unclear based on the prices they're currently going for, then I can see the manufacturer becoming an alternative to USPCC custom decks, which is nice side-effect of the deck. Overhyped? Probably, but still a good deck of cards.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Ben K on January 31, 2013, 07:00:23 PM
The decks used in the CARC photos are the same as mine, so the photos appear to have been taken with prototypes before the standard decks arrived.

The way to tell the difference is the diamond pattern on the center of the back.  On the tuck box (and supposedly the stock models) it's an "LS" ambigram (for the magician making this deck, Lawrence Sullivan), while for the prototypes the back image was flipped and the ambigram is no longer readable as such - it just looks like a pretty pattern.

Don, for your prototype deck, was the l.s. reversed and unreadable on both the cards as well as the box?

I received my order from CARC today and opened up the green-teal deck. My deck is identical to the images that CARC has; the tuck box has a readable l.s. on the diamond and on the card backs it's been flipped and is not readable. Anyone else have this or do they differ and how?

I think they are amazing cards. Remind me of prime1's which are in my top 5. Not a big fan of the custom courts, but I'll get over it. I think it's worth getting at least a deck of these. They are built to last and the perform great for me.

Sr15, I didn't have to break mine in at all. Right out of the box they handled great; springs, faro's, fans, Le Paul spreads. I practiced some cardistry with them to and didn't have a problem. (Granted I am not a pro at any of it).  I wondering if its got to do with our climates. I am in Georgia and most cards tend to clump and stick within 5 minutes of opening them. Are you in a hot and dry climate?


Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: sr15 on January 31, 2013, 08:34:17 PM
no I'm near chicago which is cold as fuck. I think the cards maybe needed to warm up a bit so that might be a reason why. Either way they definitely were handling better after I messed around with them for a while.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Ben K on January 31, 2013, 08:52:30 PM
sr15-that makes sense. I opened right after pulling from my mailbox which is under a heater. Plus it's pretty warm here. I bet your right,  It's the temp.

Of topic-I have always wondered what stage lamps do to cards. From what I understand they create a lot of heat. Enough to make a person sweat. That has to have an impact on the longevity of a deck.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on January 31, 2013, 10:34:29 PM

the faroing ability is slightly worse than normal USPCC

Have you tried faroing them face down?  They go easier that way, like a traditionally cut deck.  I was messing around with mine earlier today.


Reading over this thread again, I can tell that guys like Zenneth and Don were way overhyping these for whatever reason (marketing purposes? who knows), so I don't think there will be any groundbreaking changes to the playing card industry. If the cost of making them actually is cheaper, which is somewhat unclear based on the prices they're currently going for, then I can see the manufacturer becoming an alternative to USPCC custom decks, which is nice side-effect of the deck. Overhyped? Probably, but still a good deck of cards.

I think you're missing something here, something very important - more so to deck designers than consumers.  We now have a company in Taiwan that can manufacture playing cards on par with if not better than USPC.  In the recent past, if you wanted quality custom work, most people turned immediately to USPC; other companies couldn't match the quality.  You described them rather nicely as like Aladdins with Magic Finish, though these aren't smooth like Aladdins are.  Decks that good from a different company - and CHEAPER to make per deck, too - are previously unheard of.

BTW: if you rate most custom decks from USPC today as "above average", doesn't that make the average "above average"?  :))

The decks used in the CARC photos are the same as mine, so the photos appear to have been taken with prototypes before the standard decks arrived.

The way to tell the difference is the diamond pattern on the center of the back.  On the tuck box (and supposedly the stock models) it's an "LS" ambigram (for the magician making this deck, Lawrence Sullivan), while for the prototypes the back image was flipped and the ambigram is no longer readable as such - it just looks like a pretty pattern.

Don, for your prototype deck, was the l.s. reversed and unreadable on both the cards as well as the box?

I received my order from CARC today and opened up the green-teal deck. My deck is identical to the images that CARC has; the tuck box has a readable l.s. on the diamond and on the card backs it's been flipped and is not readable. Anyone else have this or do they differ and how?

I think they are amazing cards. Remind me of prime1's which are in my top 5. Not a big fan of the custom courts, but I'll get over it. I think it's worth getting at least a deck of these. They are built to last and the perform great for me.

Sr15, I didn't have to break mine in at all. Right out of the box they handled great; springs, faro's, fans, Le Paul spreads. I practiced some cardistry with them to and didn't have a problem. (Granted I am not a pro at any of it).  I wondering if its got to do with our climates. I am in Georgia and most cards tend to clump and stick within 5 minutes of opening them. Are you in a hot and dry climate?

Well, he did compare them to Magic Finish Aladdins - they're supposedly made to better withstand the tropic conditions of Singapore.

I was told by Lawrence Sullivan that the production decks were going to have the LS diamond facing the correct direction...  C'est la vie, I guess...  The prototypes were facing the wrong direction.  (Or perhaps these are ALL the prototypes, and there will be a new edition that has it correct...)
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Ben K on February 01, 2013, 12:36:36 AM
Well, he did compare them to Magic Finish Aladdins - they're supposedly made to better withstand the tropic conditions of Singapore.

I was told by Lawrence Sullivan that the production decks were going to have the LS diamond facing the correct direction...  C'est la vie, I guess...  The prototypes were facing the wrong direction.  (Or perhaps these are ALL the prototypes, and there will be a new edition that has it correct...)

That's pretty cool that they are made for the tropics like that. This makes me want to keep my remaining decks sealed till I find out about the protypes vs production run. I may write CARC and ask if they know what's up.

If you hold a legends card and a prime1 card up to a light, you will see the same pattern. I assume this is the graphite and glue.  This leads me to believe they are using the same stock if they are not all together the same. The dimpling is also identical. The only difference I have found is the legends truly do have a glass edge.

I found at the tips of the wings are wisp lines. On the bottom two they are missing but they are there on the top two. Also there is the same dark/light or thick/thin index like the ask Alexander's. if you arrange the cards by the thick/thin index then flip them over and use the wing tip wisp, you'll pull out all four aces. I am sure one could incorporate this into a pretty neat trick.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: sr15 on February 01, 2013, 12:43:01 AM

the faroing ability is slightly worse than normal USPCC

Have you tried faroing them face down?  They go easier that way, like a traditionally cut deck.  I was messing around with mine earlier today.

yes, and that's what I was basing my comments on. USPCC decks seem to faro better.

Quote
I think you're missing something here, something very important - more so to deck designers than consumers.  We now have a company in Taiwan that can manufacture playing cards on par with if not better than USPC.  In the recent past, if you wanted quality custom work, most people turned immediately to USPC; other companies couldn't match the quality.


again, I was literally the first person in the thread to bring this up so I don't know why you keep telling me this.

Quote
BTW: if you rate most custom decks from USPC today as "above average", doesn't that make the average "above average"?  :))

in terms of all decks USPCC makes, standard decks and custom decks included. Custom decks are usually higher quality than standard decks.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Frost on February 01, 2013, 01:34:22 AM
just opened the metallic green deck and the cards where all random they were not in order. I liked how they feel and right out of the box they fan really good .
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: sr15 on February 01, 2013, 01:49:39 AM
I believe the cards are in a mnemonica stack, which is standard for a lot (all?) of Stutzman's decks
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: hecrob on February 01, 2013, 03:46:51 AM
Did the cards came in a special package?  Like a brick box?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Michael on February 01, 2013, 04:31:46 AM
I didn't order enough to add up to a brick so I wouldn't know. Sorry :(

If anyone else scan the QR code on the tuck's flap? Doing so took me to Lawrence Sullivan's website in which a few of the secrets of this deck are listed very cryptically. There is also info on a way to win a few more decks and a method in obtaining uncuts of this deck as well!

Overall though I don't feel like this deck has been overhyped. Knowing that it was produced in Taiwan and that it costs much less to produce with overall better quality is a bonus or me. This is of course on top of the amazing back design, hidden features of the deck, and fair handling.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on February 01, 2013, 08:02:57 AM

USPCC decks seem to faro better.

Give them a little more breaking in and they'll faro much better.  Mine handle excellently.


again, I was literally the first person in the thread to bring this up so I don't know why you keep telling me this.

Well, you did mention me by name...  :))

I believe the cards are in a mnemonica stack, which is standard for a lot (all?) of Stutzman's decks

That's less about Stutzman, more about Blaine - he had an influence on the design, and Blaine loves that stack.

Did the cards came in a special package?  Like a brick box?

If you ordered at least four from Coterie1902, you got their custom mailer, but other than that, I don't think these have a custom brick box.  It's made more as a working magician's deck rather than a collectible so that wasn't the focus.  The design originally had a really nice-looking matte finish box with embossing, but Lawrence Sullivan pointed out that the laminated box is better for close-up magicians working under real-world conditions, like wet tables and bars.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: S.C. on February 01, 2013, 01:56:16 PM
Just ordered some from CARC. pretty excited to get my hands on them, although now I'm thinking I should have ordered a few more.  :)
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Angel_magic on February 01, 2013, 03:25:01 PM
I just received mine and honestly, I have to agree with Sr15 and say these were a little over-hyped. I'll start with what I like about them:

Good:
- Thin snappy stock, nice finish and smooth edges.
- I like the thin borders, makes fans look nice.
- The puzzles were fun.
- I like the jokers, back design and AoS.

Bad:
- Faros are quite bad initially, and dont get much better after breaking in.
- The court cards are kinda ugly. If, like Blaine, those are his friends and co-workers, then I really feel bad for the guy.
- CLICK-BEND! I haven't had to deal with a click-bend warp with a USPCC deck in a lonnngg time. This basically ruined the deck for me. I'm not really buying the fact that they were built for extreme climates. I've yet to be able to get the warp out of my deck.
- The overhype about how much cheaper they are. From what I've seen, they're sub-par to uspcc decks. Also, they dont have alot of the intricacies that usually drive up the uspcc prices, like deep embossing/debossing, sturdy tuck box, intricate design (i.e. multiple metallic inks, custom pips). I'm aware that they were shipped from Tiwan but even so, correct me if I'm wrong, didn't Blaine release Silver Split Spades (a uspcc deck) for $2-3 some time ago?

Anyways, They seem like a fine deck, I'm sure if my deck didn't have a click warp, I'd really enjoy them. Wouldn't say they're "changing the game" but I'd recommend picking them up if you can get past not being able to faro them and the chance that they might get a click warp that would ruin them. Even if they are ruined, I like the design and the puzzles were fun. If I'm able to get my warp out I'll update this, although it's not looking promising
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Michael on February 01, 2013, 03:34:11 PM
Strangely enough, almost all of my recent USPCC decks have "click-bended" and these have not for me. I will agree that the terrible faro ability of this deck is extremely frustrating until I broke them in and then they were mildly irritating. Also have to agree that the courts are not very attractive but they're real people so I learn to accept them. :D

I think all the cards are one way with the singular bolded indices. The back is one way as well. I haven't noticed if the one way of the back matches the one way of the fronts. But all in all I think the details put in the deck is nice. The box isn't too bad... It is slightly embossed (if you count that reveal as embossing). I agree it doesn't seem too much cheaper than USPCC decks but they are from Taiwan and seem to be able to produce cards that are at least on par (even though I think these are slightly better) with USPCC decks.

Oh and I can't stop rubbing the edges :))
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Nurul on February 01, 2013, 03:53:55 PM
I just ordered mine from jpplayingcards - how have I not heard about you?!! What a bargain for these decks :) I made a massive mistake, I bought one set when I was meant to buy 2 sets = doh, I'ma send you a message
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: hecrob on February 01, 2013, 04:07:56 PM
What is a click-bend?

Im sorry but i cant relate to that word.

Some decks have warped for me, but they usually get that way because of the climate i live in, but i dont know if we are talking about the same phenomenon.

Any help here?

Also, dont bash the cards yet, consider that not all the cards made in the batch are A+ quality, for me some of the White lions, were really bad, others were amazing (specially the black ones).

So it could be that you guys have some of the bad ones?

But I agree that this are not the  "OMG CHEAPEST" cards i have bought, they were expensive.



Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Angel_magic on February 01, 2013, 04:49:12 PM
What is a click-bend?

Im sorry but i cant relate to that word.

Some decks have warped for me, but they usually get that way because of the climate i live in, but i dont know if we are talking about the same phenomenon.

Any help here?

Also, dont bash the cards yet, consider that not all the cards made in the batch are A+ quality, for me some of the White lions, were really bad, others were amazing (specially the black ones).

So it could be that you guys have some of the bad ones?

But I agree that this are not the  "OMG CHEAPEST" cards i have bought, they were expensive.

A click bend is a warp where the deck is slightly concave or convex, and when you push in the middle, the deck "clicks" or "pops" in and out of those states.

I'm not really bashing the deck, just giving my opionion. I gave both pros and cons to the deck and overall I think it's a "good" deck. Would probably even be "great" if it didn't have the click bend.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Michael on February 01, 2013, 04:59:34 PM
I think the biggest plus for me is knowing that it isn't from USPCC. I have nothing wrong with USPCC but I like the idea of these coming from a quality printing company with comparable prices when it reaches us, the consumers.

I look forward to the next set of Legends or even other companies being bold enough to try and use the same printing company! Wonder if they have more finished and stocks than the very limited selection that USPCC offers. Because if they do, we might soon see some really high quality decks coming out! That or some really shitty decks come out too :P
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: john on February 01, 2013, 05:45:09 PM
Anyone elses tuck boxes sorta like, dirty? It's odd because i removed the cello and the boxes are dirty.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Michael on February 01, 2013, 05:54:39 PM
Anyone elses tuck boxes sorta like, dirty? It's odd because i removed the cello and the boxes are dirty.

Not mine :)) but that's some really bad quality control after the cards are produced if they're dirty pre-cellophane. Do you think whoever you ordered it from would give you a new one? Or do they only do that when the cards or decks themselves are faulty?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: DrianAbara on February 01, 2013, 09:40:46 PM
I just received mine and honestly, I have to agree with Sr15 and say these were a little over-hyped. I'll start with what I like about them:

Good:
- Thin snappy stock, nice finish and smooth edges.
- I like the thin borders, makes fans look nice.
- The puzzles were fun.
- I like the jokers, back design and AoS.

Bad:
- Faros are quite bad initially, and dont get much better after breaking in.
- The court cards are kinda ugly. If, like Blaine, those are his friends and co-workers, then I really feel bad for the guy.
- CLICK-BEND! I haven't had to deal with a click-bend warp with a USPCC deck in a lonnngg time. This basically ruined the deck for me. I'm not really buying the fact that they were built for extreme climates. I've yet to be able to get the warp out of my deck.
- The overhype about how much cheaper they are. From what I've seen, they're sub-par to uspcc decks. Also, they dont have alot of the intricacies that usually drive up the uspcc prices, like deep embossing/debossing, sturdy tuck box, intricate design (i.e. multiple metallic inks, custom pips). I'm aware that they were shipped from Tiwan but even so, correct me if I'm wrong, didn't Blaine release Silver Split Spades (a uspcc deck) for $2-3 some time ago?

Anyways, They seem like a fine deck, I'm sure if my deck didn't have a click warp, I'd really enjoy them. Wouldn't say they're "changing the game" but I'd recommend picking them up if you can get past not being able to faro them and the chance that they might get a click warp that would ruin them. Even if they are ruined, I like the design and the puzzles were fun. If I'm able to get my warp out I'll update this, although it's not looking promising
My friend recently gave me a deck of Black Ghosts that he didn't want and I way pretty pleased, until I discovered that they, too, had the click bend! It was so frustrating, however after doing just pure lepaul spreads, springs, dribbles and riffle shuffles over and over, it disappeared after 2-3 days. Just constantly bend the cards and this should break them in more easily.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Gunshy1 on February 01, 2013, 09:42:27 PM
the click bend is nothing. break the cards in.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on February 01, 2013, 09:45:29 PM
The tucks on my pre-release decks were just fine.

I honestly feel they'll faro better for you in time.  I can do a face-down faro with mine that's smooth as silk.  These take just a bit longer to break in than a typical USPC deck, but once they're broken in - they're excellent.

Mine had a slight "click-bend".  Storing them in a Porper clip for a while eliminated it completely.

Angel_magic: no one claimed these were made for "extreme climates".  It was the claim USPC makes about the Aladdins - and from what people in Singapore tell me, it's true.  Someone compared the handling of this deck to Aladdins with Magic Finish, which I think is where the confusion is coming from.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Michael on February 02, 2013, 01:44:26 AM
Mine are actually starting to faro better and better the longer I play with them. I'm hoping they'll just keep better and better the longer I play with them.

Mine do seem to handle temperature changes better than the average deck. Most decks start to lose their smooth fanning ability if I hold and play with them for more than half an hour at a time. After letting them cool down for ten minutes or so they work fine again. The Legends don't seem to do this and I've been playing with mine for about an hour at a time.

I don't know if it's the stock or the finish or anything but it looks promising.

EDIT: I've just been subjecting one of my decks to nonstop faros for about two hours now and they faro almost perfectly! Still haven't click-bended for me yet but once they do I'll just put them in my Porper clip.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: sr15 on February 02, 2013, 03:56:53 AM
I've had some USPCC decks click-bend on me before, but it hasn't happened yet with this deck. JAQK decks for whatever reason always click-bend on me before I really break them in, and a few others have too.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: S.C. on February 02, 2013, 03:47:51 PM
I've had all kinds of New cards click bend on me, depending on where I've left them after i open the deck. i noticed with a few decks if I've left them in my car or something before they were really broken in when I pulled em out they had the click bend. nothing some breaking in doesn't fix. the only problem is, for me anyway, a few times I would finally work out the click bend and then shortly after that the deck is worn. still don't have any solution for that one. >:(
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: therealmackay on February 02, 2013, 05:50:01 PM
I think the quality of cards are fantastic, however im not totally impressed with metallic colour! Doesnt seem too metallic at all!
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: S.C. on February 02, 2013, 06:51:57 PM
I think the quality of cards are fantastic, however im not totally impressed with metallic colour! Doesnt seem too metallic at all!

I've read up a bit on the metallic ink and from the sounds of it, its pretty hard to use metallic ink in cards, depending on the colors, from my understanding it's due to the fact that all the printing is done on paper (obviously) and the metallic inks don't seem as lustrous on that medium as they would a more dense surface. I'm not an expert on printing but I understand that reasoning. My cards shipped yesterday so i haven't gotten my hands on them yet but is it all the colors or just certain ones you feel aren't as "metallic" as you would like? any one else want to chime in on this one?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Michael on February 02, 2013, 07:05:25 PM
I think the quality of cards are fantastic, however im not totally impressed with metallic colour! Doesnt seem too metallic at all!

I've read up a bit on the metallic ink and from the sounds of it, its pretty hard to use metallic ink in cards, depending on the colors, from my understanding it's due to the fact that all the printing is done on paper (obviously) and the metallic inks don't seem as lustrous on that medium as they would a more dense surface. I'm not an expert on printing but I understand that reasoning. My cards shipped yesterday so i haven't gotten my hands on them yet but is it all the colors or just certain ones you feel aren't as "metallic" as you would like? any one else want to chime in on this one?

I'm no expert on metallic ink either but that can make sense. My assumption though is that since metallic ink isn't always super shimmery and usually just has a slight shine in certain angles, it's never too bold anyway. It just catches the eye.

I do know that only the green deck contains metallic ink. I personally haven't open any if my green decks yet and have been solely using my red and blue ones.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Magic_Orthodoxy on February 02, 2013, 08:31:23 PM
I am sorry but I cant find pictures or a deck review of this (besides the ones that are on CARC) what am I missing?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Michael on February 02, 2013, 11:01:28 PM
I am sorry but I cant find pictures or a deck review of this (besides the ones that are on CARC) what am I missing?

To what are you referring to? What do you think you're missing? Did you get this deck? Did you only get one or two colors?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Magic_Orthodoxy on February 02, 2013, 11:07:12 PM
Quote
To what are you referring to?

I am referring to the subject of this thread the "Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush"

I have looked through this thread (13 pages) and I can not find any pictures of the card faces or a deck review, I am asking if I missed it. Can anyone kindly point me in the direction?

thank you
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Michael on February 02, 2013, 11:31:15 PM
Quote
To what are you referring to?

I am referring to the subject of this thread the "Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush"

I have looked through this thread (13 pages) and I can not find any pictures of the card faces or a deck review, I am asking if I missed it. Can anyone kindly point me in the direction?

thank you

Just the card faces? I'll post a simple non-professional picture of the faces if you'd like :)

As for reviews.... there are discussions and opinions within the last few pages (12-13) that contain a bunch of different people's opinion on the deck.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Samurai007 on February 03, 2013, 11:26:58 AM
I think the biggest plus for me is knowing that it isn't from USPCC. I have nothing wrong with USPCC but I like the idea of these coming from a quality printing company with comparable prices when it reaches us, the consumers.

I look forward to the next set of Legends or even other companies being bold enough to try and use the same printing company! Wonder if they have more finished and stocks than the very limited selection that USPCC offers. Because if they do, we might soon see some really high quality decks coming out! That or some really shitty decks come out too :P

There are other good printers out there, have been for a while.  I received 2 other non-USPCC decks within the last week besides the Legends deck, and IMO they are both as good or better in quality than the Legends deck.  The Deck of the Extraordinary Voyages, from Bent Castle Workshop's Kickstarter was especially nice IMHO.  At one point he considered going with USPCC though it would have meant compromising the design of his deck, but luckily backers convinced him not to.  It turned out beautifully.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on February 03, 2013, 12:30:32 PM

There are other good printers out there, have been for a while.  I received 2 other non-USPCC decks within the last week besides the Legends deck, and IMO they are both as good or better in quality than the Legends deck.  The Deck of the Extraordinary Voyages, from Bent Castle Workshop's Kickstarter was especially nice IMHO.  At one point he considered going with USPCC though it would have meant compromising the design of his deck, but luckily backers convinced him not to.  It turned out beautifully.

There's no doubt that Bent Castle does good work - but it's not entirely up to par in terms of handling, fanning, etc.  I'm very familiar with their work - I'm still waiting for my DotEVs to show up, and I have all of their other decks.  They're good, they're playable, but they're not as good for certain types of performance work.  Additionally, they rarely end up using the same printer twice, and they're always printing in China.

The problem they have with printers is that they find a good one, print a deck with them, then they shut down, starting the quest for a new printer all over again.  Many of their decks are radically different from each other in terms of stock, finish, handling, etc. - not in the same print run, but across their product line.

The printer that did the run for Legends is expected to remain an ongoing concern, and I understand that plans may be in the works to have a US intermediary for the company, someone who will act like a broker and make all the necessary arrangements for people in North America and possibly Europe looking to create new custom decks but not looking to do so with USPC.  USPC is a fine company, to be sure, but at times they truly do act like the near-monopoly that they are in the US, and some of their policies seem fickle and capricious.  Oh, and when they screw up, they do it big, no half-measures there...  :))
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Michael on February 03, 2013, 02:43:42 PM

There are other good printers out there, have been for a while.  I received 2 other non-USPCC decks within the last week besides the Legends deck, and IMO they are both as good or better in quality than the Legends deck.  The Deck of the Extraordinary Voyages, from Bent Castle Workshop's Kickstarter was especially nice IMHO.  At one point he considered going with USPCC though it would have meant compromising the design of his deck, but luckily backers convinced him not to.  It turned out beautifully.

There's no doubt that Bent Castle does good work - but it's not entirely up to par in terms of handling, fanning, etc.  I'm very familiar with their work - I'm still waiting for my DotEVs to show up, and I have all of their other decks.  They're good, they're playable, but they're not as good for certain types of performance work.  Additionally, they rarely end up using the same printer twice, and they're always printing in China.

The problem they have with printers is that they find a good one, print a deck with them, then they shut down, starting the quest for a new printer all over again.  Many of their decks are radically different from each other in terms of stock, finish, handling, etc. - not in the same print run, but across their product line.

The printer that did the run for Legends is expected to remain an ongoing concern, and I understand that plans may be in the works to have a US intermediary for the company, someone who will act like a broker and make all the necessary arrangements for people in North America and possibly Europe looking to create new custom decks but not looking to do so with USPC.  USPC is a fine company, to be sure, but at times they truly do act like the near-monopoly that they are in the US, and some of their policies seem fickle and capricious.  Oh, and when they screw up, they do it big, no half-measures there...  :))

The notion that I was trying to get at was that the USPCC does act like they have the monopoly on playing cards because there is no other printing company (to my knowledge) as large as them. This makes them good to go to st times but we all know that sometimes they sacrifice quality or are just difficult to deal with.

Of course some of my favorite decks were printed by them, it's just refreshing having a company that may be able to compete with them. I think this will help push the standard of playing cards to bigger and better standards.

Thanks Don for that info. I didn't know that about Bent Castle. :))
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: therealmackay on February 03, 2013, 06:54:50 PM
Re: the metallic inks! Thanks for your responses! I guess i was expecting the same kind of effect as the silver split spades!
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Evan on February 03, 2013, 08:21:33 PM
I was disappointed with the metallic ink too, but I'm sure that's something that they will work on for future decks.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: MrMollusk on February 04, 2013, 10:53:46 AM
I was slightly disappointed with my decks. The finish was a bit too smooth for me. The stock was initially very stiff, but handled much better after broken in. I'm sure lots of people would like the feel of these, but they just weren't for me. Design was really nice, though. Anyone know who the court cards are?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Card Player on February 04, 2013, 11:39:46 AM
I emailed CARC this morning. They got back to me same day. My order was shipping out today. Picked up a brick (4x 3 pack). This makes it my 3rd playing cards purchase released in 2013 (Virtuoso, D&D New Fan Backs & Legends). I'm trying to be more discreet this year with what I buy. I had to have them! Its only January!

Looking forward to finding out how these handle also. I hope the producers of playing cards are do their homework before making manufacturing choices. I'm not just talking about using a deck of cards. I'm talking about actually visiting these manufacturers to see what they are doing and how they are doing it.

When the manufacturer's on the other side of the world, that's not always practical...

Quote
I think you're missing something here, something very important - more so to deck designers than consumers.  We now have a company in Taiwan that can manufacture playing cards on par with if not better than USPC.  In the recent past, if you wanted quality custom work, most people turned immediately to USPC; other companies couldn't match the quality.  You described them rather nicely as like Aladdins with Magic Finish, though these aren't smooth like Aladdins are.  Decks that good from a different company - and CHEAPER to make per deck, too - are previously unheard of.

Hey Don, Better late then never... I've been busy.

I understand its not practical for everyone...

Those of us that are buying this deck are for the most part more concerned about comparing the quality to USPCC. This choice has as much to do with the producers profit margin though. Yes, the decks are cheaper to make for producers but those of us that are purchasing the decks are not getting the decks any less then we would for other custom USPCC decks. How does Legends being made cheaper benefit the customer using the decks? The USPCC is an American Company and therefor I know they adhere to U.S. labor laws. Do we really know how or who this Taiwan Playing Card Company is using for these decks to be made? There are thousands of American Companies that use cheap labor country's to manufacture goods. While I am enjoying the Legends decks very much, I'm taking all this hype about quality with a grain of salt. I know what I'm paying for when I purchase USPCC decks.

Don, Over time I've learned to read between the lines of some of your posts. I know you have an intellectual interest in the success of a "friends company". I'm just wondering if your indulgent support of Legends Playing Cards being made cheaper has anything to do with a future project you know of? Otherwise, why would YOU "Don Boyer" care that they are being made cheaper?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: S.C. on February 04, 2013, 10:56:47 PM
got my decks in the mail today. i agree with the earlier statements about how smooth the finish is. not a bad thing just something I'm not used to. they also have a weird scent to them, call me weird but i noticed a different smell on the "cambric" finish from Dan and Dave's decks and these have a unique smell as well. i noticed a reveal on the bottom of the case (for those that missed it). I'm really curious about the order, i know its a stack but I'm pretty sure its not mnemonica, i could be wrong (ill dig up my copy of the book to verify) but I'm pretty sure the ace of spades is 7th in the stack, not first. any more thoughts on this would be nice since I'm a little hesitant to shuffle these and destroy the stack. all in all though they seem like a solid deck of cards...time will tell if they stand up to the abuse though.  ;)

side note...there is a QR code on the flap of the lid, if you scan it, it sends you to a legends website with riddles to "discover secrets" of the deck..I didn't know if anyone had tried it yet.


Side note 2: if you keep the deck in its original order and riffle the edges the flames on the dragons back flutter. its hard to explain but try it out.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on February 05, 2013, 03:14:09 AM
Side note 2: if you keep the deck in its original order and riffle the edges the flames on the dragons back flutter. its hard to explain but try it out.

That's not just "fluttering" - you just did a riffle test and the deck failed: it's marked!  Those flames must be in a pattern corresponding to the card's value and suit.  I'm going to examine this further and see if I can decipher the markings.

EDIT: OK, here's what I can tell so far.  The "flames" on the dragon's back are binary digits.  The lowest is the "1" digit, the next up is "2", the next is "4" and the top is "8".  When a digit is set to 1, it touches the border of the card; if the flame doesn't touch the border, it's a 0.  Add them up and you get numeric values from 1 to 13.  For example, if the top and bottom flames touched the border, that would be a 9 (8+1).  If the middle two touched, that's a 6 (4+2).  For a King (13), all flames except the 2 digit touch (8+4+1).  These marks appear on all four of the dragons, in each corner, making for easy deck reading.

Haven't figured out if there's a suit identifier yet, but I'm on the lookout!

SECOND EDIT: just discovered the suit markings!  They're at the base of the flames.  Some flames will have a thick line across the base while some have a thin line.  That's the idenfitier.

Spades: top two flames have thin baselines.
Hearts: top and bottom flames have thin baselines.
Clubs: bottom two flames have thin baselines.
Diamonds: none of the flames have thin baselines.

Sharp eye, S.C. - I might never have spotted that!
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Zenneth on February 05, 2013, 04:37:31 AM
I emailed CARC this morning. They got back to me same day. My order was shipping out today. Picked up a brick (4x 3 pack). This makes it my 3rd playing cards purchase released in 2013 (Virtuoso, D&D New Fan Backs & Legends). I'm trying to be more discreet this year with what I buy. I had to have them! Its only January!

Looking forward to finding out how these handle also. I hope the producers of playing cards are do their homework before making manufacturing choices. I'm not just talking about using a deck of cards. I'm talking about actually visiting these manufacturers to see what they are doing and how they are doing it.

When the manufacturer's on the other side of the world, that's not always practical...

Quote
I think you're missing something here, something very important - more so to deck designers than consumers.  We now have a company in Taiwan that can manufacture playing cards on par with if not better than USPC.  In the recent past, if you wanted quality custom work, most people turned immediately to USPC; other companies couldn't match the quality.  You described them rather nicely as like Aladdins with Magic Finish, though these aren't smooth like Aladdins are.  Decks that good from a different company - and CHEAPER to make per deck, too - are previously unheard of.

Hey Don, Better late then never... I've been busy.

I understand its not practical for everyone...

Those of us that are buying this deck are for the most part more concerned about comparing the quality to USPCC. This choice has as much to do with the producers profit margin though. Yes, the decks are cheaper to make for producers but those of us that are purchasing the decks are not getting the decks any less then we would for other custom USPCC decks. How does Legends being made cheaper benefit the customer using the decks? The USPCC is an American Company and therefor I know they adhere to U.S. labor laws. Do we really know how or who this Taiwan Playing Card Company is using for these decks to be made? There are thousands of American Companies that use cheap labor country's to manufacture goods. While I am enjoying the Legends decks very much, I'm taking all this hype about quality with a grain of salt. I know what I'm paying for when I purchase USPCC decks.

Don, Over time I've learned to read between the lines of some of your posts. I know you have an intellectual interest in the success of a "friends company". I'm just wondering if your indulgent support of Legends Playing Cards being made cheaper has anything to do with a future project you know of? Otherwise, why would YOU "Don Boyer" care that they are being made cheaper?

The "saving" has already been passed onto customers with Legends.

Retail price of Legends in greater China area is very good, particularly in Hong Kong.

What makes Legends available at a slightly lower (instead of a much lower) price than USPC decks in U.S. is the import tax and international shipping, unfortunately there's nothing much can be done about this, it's the same when Asians trying to buy decks from U.S. retailers.

The factory that prints Legends is a closely guarded trade secret, I don't think Don knows which factory it is and I doubt he has much interest in this. He is barely trying to point out a different option to custom deck designers here.

I am the first Chinese magician ever sponsored by USPCC so I am supposed to say some good things about USPCC, but I can be very honest with you, when it comes to printing custom decks, they can make things very very difficult for you, even to people like me.

Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on February 05, 2013, 05:52:02 AM
Hey Don, Better late then never... I've been busy.

I understand its not practical for everyone...

Those of us that are buying this deck are for the most part more concerned about comparing the quality to USPCC. This choice has as much to do with the producers profit margin though. Yes, the decks are cheaper to make for producers but those of us that are purchasing the decks are not getting the decks any less then we would for other custom USPCC decks. How does Legends being made cheaper benefit the customer using the decks? The USPCC is an American Company and therefor I know they adhere to U.S. labor laws. Do we really know how or who this Taiwan Playing Card Company is using for these decks to be made? There are thousands of American Companies that use cheap labor country's to manufacture goods. While I am enjoying the Legends decks very much, I'm taking all this hype about quality with a grain of salt. I know what I'm paying for when I purchase USPCC decks.

Don, Over time I've learned to read between the lines of some of your posts. I know you have an intellectual interest in the success of a "friends company". I'm just wondering if your indulgent support of Legends Playing Cards being made cheaper has anything to do with a future project you know of? Otherwise, why would YOU "Don Boyer" care that they are being made cheaper?

Sorry I missed this reply - I was rather excited about figuring out the deck's markings.

Zenneth summed everything up pretty well, really.  The deck is cheaper to make than at USPC, but a US-made deck doesn't have Customs/import taxes to be accounted for in the price unless it's being sold elsewhere in the world.  So in the end, the deck is, like he said, just somewhat cheaper rather than drastically so.  And let's not forget the amazingly intricate work that went into making this a real magician's deck - the marking system is brilliant and yet so simple to read, and it's just one of many such features in a feature-packed deck.  How often do you find all these features in a deck at that price?  A quality marked deck alone can run $10-20, or more in some cases.

Regarding the printer, the only things about the printer that I know are it's located in Taiwan and it's an industry secret.  But I would doubt that this Taiwanese company is that radically different in terms of their business practices and treatment of its employees than a good percentage of American firms.  I know that at least some of the people involved with the Legends deck got a look at the operation in person - if it didn't pass the smell test, I'm sure they wouldn't be using that printer, even if the decks were "Jerry's" good.  I can't get into the details too much, but a LOT of work performed by some big names in the business over several months went into finding the right printer for this project, and it's expected to become an ongoing concern.

As far as my interests - I do associate with a handful of people who are involved with playing card design, and not just from one single company.  I've heard some of the background details of how things went pear-shaped and sideways on a USPC contract job.  The company does, in the end, eventually make good on their mistakes, but some of the mistakes are so bone-headedly simple that they shouldn't have occured in the first place, never mind so frequently.  Meanwhile, weeks and even months pass by and their product isn't up to spec yet.  Sometimes delays like that cost money, as what happened to the Bohemia deck, a project I consulted on; they went through a total of three production runs before they finally got everything right with the tuck boxes, and by that time postal rates increased and they had to shell out more of their earnings from the KS project to cover those expenses, cutting into their profits, since they certainly weren't going to track down their customers and ask for more postage for something they've already paid for.  They also had to decline an offer to have the deck appear in the New York Times Holiday Gift Guide 2012 because on the USPC side of the deal the project went from being ahead of schedule to bumped back - and that was BEFORE all the mistakes.

To sum the previous paragraph up in a single sentence, these people are friends and business associates and the mistakes they've had to endure dealing with USPC were insanely easy to prevent, but they weren't - why should they go through all that hassle when someone else is willing to do competent, quality work for less, even after accounting for importation?  I like USPC products as much as the next guy, but I also acknowledge that they're not the only game in town for people with a design and a dream.  I have no profits to make and no projects in the works that affect this opinion in any way.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: The Quadfather on February 05, 2013, 07:22:13 AM
Side note 2: if you keep the deck in its original order and riffle the edges the flames on the dragons back flutter. its hard to explain but try it out.

That's not just "fluttering" - you just did a riffle test and the deck failed: it's marked!  Those flames must be in a pattern corresponding to the card's value and suit.  I'm going to examine this further and see if I can decipher the markings.

EDIT: OK, here's what I can tell so far.  The "flames" on the dragon's back are binary digits.  The lowest is the "1" digit, the next up is "2", the next is "4" and the top is "8".  When a digit is set to 1, it touches the border of the card; if the flame doesn't touch the border, it's a 0.  Add them up and you get numeric values from 1 to 13.  For example, if the top and bottom flames touched the border, that would be a 9 (8+1).  If the middle two touched, that's a 6 (4+2).  For a King (13), all flames except the 2 digit touch (8+4+1).  These marks appear on all four of the dragons, in each corner, making for easy deck reading.

Haven't figured out if there's a suit identifier yet, but I'm on the lookout!

SECOND EDIT: just discovered the suit markings!  They're at the base of the flames.  Some flames will have a thick line across the base while some have a thin line.  That's the idenfitier.

Spades: top two flames have thin baselines.
Hearts: top and bottom flames have thin baselines.
Clubs: bottom two flames have thin baselines.
Diamonds: none of the flames have thin baselines.

Sharp eye, S.C. - I might never have spotted that!

That's awesome! It's this is the most ingenious marking system I've ever seen on a deck! And it's so invisible! Thanks for pointing it out and deciphering it!

Now, the stack! I'm clueless about stacks! If someone hadn't told me it was in a stack, I might have sent the decks back saying that somebody opened them, shuffled them, and then re-sealed them in cellophane before sending them to me. Somebody said earlier that the ace of spades is 7th in the deck? Mines first. Don't know if that helps! It's also the same stack for each colour deck.

The one thing I did notice is when I did a couple of small springs with the cards, they seemed to come of my thumb in bunches of two or three instead of individually. Maybe it's my technique, or the thickness of the cards (or should that be "thin-ness"?), but they just seemed to stick a bit. I'll keep trying and see if breaking them in a bit helps.

Edit: Also just noticed a very clever Ambigram on the top of the box! I think that's the right term for it anyway! When you can read a word and turn it upside down and still read it? Only this is two different words - Lawrence Sullivan.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: S.C. on February 05, 2013, 11:03:08 AM
Side note 2: if you keep the deck in its original order and riffle the edges the flames on the dragons back flutter. its hard to explain but try it out.

That's not just "fluttering" - you just did a riffle test and the deck failed: it's marked!  Those flames must be in a pattern corresponding to the card's value and suit.  I'm going to examine this further and see if I can decipher the markings.

EDIT: OK, here's what I can tell so far.  The "flames" on the dragon's back are binary digits.  The lowest is the "1" digit, the next up is "2", the next is "4" and the top is "8".  When a digit is set to 1, it touches the border of the card; if the flame doesn't touch the border, it's a 0.  Add them up and you get numeric values from 1 to 13.  For example, if the top and bottom flames touched the border, that would be a 9 (8+1).  If the middle two touched, that's a 6 (4+2).  For a King (13), all flames except the 2 digit touch (8+4+1).  These marks appear on all four of the dragons, in each corner, making for easy deck reading.

Haven't figured out if there's a suit identifier yet, but I'm on the lookout!

SECOND EDIT: just discovered the suit markings!  They're at the base of the flames.  Some flames will have a thick line across the base while some have a thin line.  That's the idenfitier.

Spades: top two flames have thin baselines.
Hearts: top and bottom flames have thin baselines.
Clubs: bottom two flames have thin baselines.
Diamonds: none of the flames have thin baselines.

Sharp eye, S.C. - I might never have spotted that!

nice call don! yeah i was studying them last night and started to see the differences in the flames but couldn't place all the details. Binary is perfect!!!

Nice work sir...nice work indeed!  :D
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: MrMollusk on February 05, 2013, 12:02:42 PM
Side note 2: if you keep the deck in its original order and riffle the edges the flames on the dragons back flutter. its hard to explain but try it out.

That's not just "fluttering" - you just did a riffle test and the deck failed: it's marked!  Those flames must be in a pattern corresponding to the card's value and suit.  I'm going to examine this further and see if I can decipher the markings.

EDIT: OK, here's what I can tell so far.  The "flames" on the dragon's back are binary digits.  The lowest is the "1" digit, the next up is "2", the next is "4" and the top is "8".  When a digit is set to 1, it touches the border of the card; if the flame doesn't touch the border, it's a 0.  Add them up and you get numeric values from 1 to 13.  For example, if the top and bottom flames touched the border, that would be a 9 (8+1).  If the middle two touched, that's a 6 (4+2).  For a King (13), all flames except the 2 digit touch (8+4+1).  These marks appear on all four of the dragons, in each corner, making for easy deck reading.

Haven't figured out if there's a suit identifier yet, but I'm on the lookout!

SECOND EDIT: just discovered the suit markings!  They're at the base of the flames.  Some flames will have a thick line across the base while some have a thin line.  That's the idenfitier.

Spades: top two flames have thin baselines.
Hearts: top and bottom flames have thin baselines.
Clubs: bottom two flames have thin baselines.
Diamonds: none of the flames have thin baselines.

Sharp eye, S.C. - I might never have spotted that!

WOAH

Thanks! This deck gets more and more interesting with the more goodies I see.
I've never even heard of an embossed reveal.

It also has a hidden 1-way back. At the top corner, look for the curved lines in the dragon's wings. One side doesn't have curves in the top portion of the wings.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on February 05, 2013, 12:32:43 PM
Side note 2: if you keep the deck in its original order and riffle the edges the flames on the dragons back flutter. its hard to explain but try it out.

That's not just "fluttering" - you just did a riffle test and the deck failed: it's marked!  Those flames must be in a pattern corresponding to the card's value and suit.  I'm going to examine this further and see if I can decipher the markings.

EDIT: OK, here's what I can tell so far.  The "flames" on the dragon's back are binary digits.  The lowest is the "1" digit, the next up is "2", the next is "4" and the top is "8".  When a digit is set to 1, it touches the border of the card; if the flame doesn't touch the border, it's a 0.  Add them up and you get numeric values from 1 to 13.  For example, if the top and bottom flames touched the border, that would be a 9 (8+1).  If the middle two touched, that's a 6 (4+2).  For a King (13), all flames except the 2 digit touch (8+4+1).  These marks appear on all four of the dragons, in each corner, making for easy deck reading.

Haven't figured out if there's a suit identifier yet, but I'm on the lookout!

SECOND EDIT: just discovered the suit markings!  They're at the base of the flames.  Some flames will have a thick line across the base while some have a thin line.  That's the idenfitier.

Spades: top two flames have thin baselines.
Hearts: top and bottom flames have thin baselines.
Clubs: bottom two flames have thin baselines.
Diamonds: none of the flames have thin baselines.

Sharp eye, S.C. - I might never have spotted that!

WOAH

Thanks! This deck gets more and more interesting with the more goodies I see.
I've never even heard of an embossed reveal.

It also has a hidden 1-way back. At the top corner, look for the curved lines in the dragon's wings. One side doesn't have curves in the top portion of the wings.

Note that the one-way marks on the Aces are reversed - makes for easy spotting with a quick run through the deck, no need to read the suit/value markings.

Tonight, when I have more energy, I'll look for all the little tidbits discovered so far and list them.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: MrMollusk on February 05, 2013, 01:29:39 PM
Side note 2: if you keep the deck in its original order and riffle the edges the flames on the dragons back flutter. its hard to explain but try it out.

That's not just "fluttering" - you just did a riffle test and the deck failed: it's marked!  Those flames must be in a pattern corresponding to the card's value and suit.  I'm going to examine this further and see if I can decipher the markings.

EDIT: OK, here's what I can tell so far.  The "flames" on the dragon's back are binary digits.  The lowest is the "1" digit, the next up is "2", the next is "4" and the top is "8".  When a digit is set to 1, it touches the border of the card; if the flame doesn't touch the border, it's a 0.  Add them up and you get numeric values from 1 to 13.  For example, if the top and bottom flames touched the border, that would be a 9 (8+1).  If the middle two touched, that's a 6 (4+2).  For a King (13), all flames except the 2 digit touch (8+4+1).  These marks appear on all four of the dragons, in each corner, making for easy deck reading.

Haven't figured out if there's a suit identifier yet, but I'm on the lookout!

SECOND EDIT: just discovered the suit markings!  They're at the base of the flames.  Some flames will have a thick line across the base while some have a thin line.  That's the idenfitier.

Spades: top two flames have thin baselines.
Hearts: top and bottom flames have thin baselines.
Clubs: bottom two flames have thin baselines.
Diamonds: none of the flames have thin baselines.

Sharp eye, S.C. - I might never have spotted that!

WOAH

Thanks! This deck gets more and more interesting with the more goodies I see.
I've never even heard of an embossed reveal.

It also has a hidden 1-way back. At the top corner, look for the curved lines in the dragon's wings. One side doesn't have curves in the top portion of the wings.

Note that the one-way marks on the Aces are reversed - makes for easy spotting with a quick run through the deck, no need to read the suit/value markings.

Tonight, when I have more energy, I'll look for all the little tidbits discovered so far and list them.

I wonder if there's more.  ;D
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Curt on February 05, 2013, 05:21:39 PM
I am not sure what places are still carrying this deck, but I just got an email saying that Tannen's Magic store is. So here is another option if you haven't picked up any yet but still wanted to.

http://www.tannens.com/shop//cart.php?m=product_detail&p=9847
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Nurul on February 05, 2013, 05:39:37 PM
"Dragons reveal smoke and rubies"

Don't think anyone mentioned that riddle (maybe cos its a little more obvious than the others lol) but on th joker card it has ruby in smoke as a reveal :)
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: S.C. on February 05, 2013, 10:45:29 PM
I'm not sure if anyone cares  ;) but i thought i would document the order the cards they came in when i opened the pack. I did this for myself but thought I would share In case we figure out the stack we can use this as reference for the original.

I also couldn't help myself I need to shuffle these things before i lose it. ;D

listed from face up position starting at the top card
AS,4H,7D,4C,9D,6C,QS,QD,9C,4D,4S,10H,JC,10S,JD,5C,3H,KD,10C,8S,JH,KC,5S,8H,3D,2S,5H,6D,3C,2H,AH,
10D,7C,JS,AC,7H,AD,7S,KH,8C,KS,8D,2C,5D,6H,3S,2D,9H,6S,QC,QH,9S,J,J

Hope this is useful to someone other than me. :)
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Michael on February 05, 2013, 11:34:07 PM
Other than the fact that I really like the "structure" of this deck (edges, thin stock, stiff cards, fine finish in my opinion), I like the design as well. The back design is incredibly detailed and it had me staring at it for a good fifteen minutes after I opened the box before I had to force myself to look away. I enjoy the reveals on the tuck itself.

What sells this deck as well is the subtle marks built into the deck. I like that it has a subtle system within the dragons' spikes (noticed they were different but didn't even bother to put the effort in to see if it was a marking system). I like the one way back of the wings as well. I think it has been done extremely well and is definitely worth more than the price that all these sites are selling them for. I've been playing with them for hours on end almost daily and they don't seem to have gotten any worse (or at least nothing my Porper clip couldn't fix).

I guess I like them more than when I first opened them.

(I did notice many of these hidden features and mentioned how they were listed on the website after you scan the QR code but I figured half the novelty of them was trying to figure them out myself. Should have said something sooner :)) )
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Card Player on February 06, 2013, 03:54:36 PM
Quote
Sorry I missed this reply - I was rather excited about figuring out the deck's markings.

Yes, I see that. Glad you figured it out. It only makes this deck more enjoyable for me to have.

Quote
Zenneth summed everything up pretty well, really.  The deck is cheaper to make than at USPC, but a US-made deck doesn't have Customs/import taxes to be accounted for in the price unless it's being sold elsewhere in the world.  So in the end, the deck is, like he said, just somewhat cheaper rather than drastically so.  And let's not forget the amazingly intricate work that went into making this a real magician's deck - the marking system is brilliant and yet so simple to read, and it's just one of many such features in a feature-packed deck.  How often do you find all these features in a deck at that price?  A quality marked deck alone can run $10-20, or more in some cases.

I appreciate Zenneth’s explanation…

What quality marked decks are you referring to that cost $10-20?  I know there are others not as widely sold. Most recently, both the White Lions and Players were sold under $6-7 a deck when I bought them (as you know). Are Blaine's White Lions NOT what you consider a feature-packed "real magicians deck"?

Quote
Regarding the printer, the only things about the printer that I know are it's located in Taiwan and it's an industry secret.  But I would doubt that this Taiwanese company is that radically different in terms of their business practices and treatment of its employees than a good percentage of American firms.  I know that at least some of the people involved with the Legends deck got a look at the operation in person - if it didn't pass the smell test, I'm sure they wouldn't be using that printer, even if the decks were "Jerry's" good.

I’m not sure how I feel about this specific printer and its location being an industry secret. Wouldn't a company want people to know who they are and exactly where they are located to increase business?

Also, I can't imagine this Taiwan printer being all that busy making custom decks before last year. Do you know if there is a standard deck that was ever made possibly possessing similar handling abilities?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on February 06, 2013, 09:28:29 PM
Quote
Sorry I missed this reply - I was rather excited about figuring out the deck's markings.

Yes, I see that. Glad you figured it out. It only makes this deck more enjoyable for me to have.

Quote
Zenneth summed everything up pretty well, really.  The deck is cheaper to make than at USPC, but a US-made deck doesn't have Customs/import taxes to be accounted for in the price unless it's being sold elsewhere in the world.  So in the end, the deck is, like he said, just somewhat cheaper rather than drastically so.  And let's not forget the amazingly intricate work that went into making this a real magician's deck - the marking system is brilliant and yet so simple to read, and it's just one of many such features in a feature-packed deck.  How often do you find all these features in a deck at that price?  A quality marked deck alone can run $10-20, or more in some cases.

I appreciate Zenneth’s explanation…

What quality marked decks are you referring to that cost $10-20?  I know there are others not as widely sold. Most recently, both the White Lions and Players were sold under $6-7 a deck when I bought them (as you know). Are Blaine's White Lions NOT what you consider a feature-packed "real magicians deck"?

Quote
Regarding the printer, the only things about the printer that I know are it's located in Taiwan and it's an industry secret.  But I would doubt that this Taiwanese company is that radically different in terms of their business practices and treatment of its employees than a good percentage of American firms.  I know that at least some of the people involved with the Legends deck got a look at the operation in person - if it didn't pass the smell test, I'm sure they wouldn't be using that printer, even if the decks were "Jerry's" good.

I’m not sure how I feel about this specific printer and its location being an industry secret. Wouldn't a company want people to know who they are and exactly where they are located to increase business?

Also, I can't imagine this Taiwan printer being all that busy making custom decks before last year. Do you know if there is a standard deck that was ever made possibly possessing similar handling abilities?

Some quality marked decks that cost more than $10 a pack:

Ultimate Marked Deck (used to be $30, now, if you can find it, it's closer to $40)
Mandolin Back GT Speedreader (list $25)
Maiden Back Gambler's Deck ($30)
Rider Back Gambler's Deck (out of print, got mine for about $25)

The second two are more than simply marked decks - they're also stacked strippers.  But the key feature of all of these decks is that the markings, while subtle enough to pass casual inspection, are as easy to read as the front of the card is if you know where to look.  No code system to remember, either.

Madison's Players are a great deck, but they don't have quite the number of features as the Legends deck.  The main feature of the Players is: they're marked.  That's about it.  Not saying they're bad cards - I own 'em and like 'em - but Legends have more features.

In regards to the printer being an industry secret - if you had a goose that laid golden eggs, would you start passing it around to all your buddies, or would you keep it under wraps?  :))  Misdirection's Mystery is equally as guarded about revealing who does their printing.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: sr15 on February 06, 2013, 09:41:58 PM
but it doesn't lay golden eggs. it lays regular eggs that are actually slightly worse than the eggs that you're used to eating
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on February 06, 2013, 10:32:25 PM
but it doesn't lay golden eggs. it lays regular eggs that are actually slightly worse than the eggs that you're used to eating

Unh... D'oh?

Yep - D'OH!!!
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: sr15 on February 06, 2013, 10:42:22 PM
let's be honest here, the legends deck is lower quality than the average custom deck from USPCC. There's no "golden egg" coming from this printer because the quality is the same as USPCC at best, and the foreign shipping makes the decks end up costing about the same as a custom deck from USPCC. We certainly don't have a game changer here.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Gunshy1 on February 06, 2013, 11:03:06 PM
so far the only two people that have had this deck long enough to break it in to the point to actually know how it handles are don and evan. both of them have said that once they break in they handle very well.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Michael on February 07, 2013, 12:20:33 AM
I've been playing with my cards daily and in my opinion they have been holding up better than USPCC decks have in the way I play with them. So for me, I consider them "golden eggs." But to each his own right?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on February 07, 2013, 05:11:46 AM
let's be honest here, the legends deck is lower quality than the average custom deck from USPCC. There's no "golden egg" coming from this printer because the quality is the same as USPCC at best, and the foreign shipping makes the decks end up costing about the same as a custom deck from USPCC. We certainly don't have a game changer here.

As far as this being a "golden egg" or a game changer, I've said it before - this is more of a game changer on the designer end, though to a lesser extent on the consumer end as well.  Speaking on the consumer side, I don't know if a deck with this many features has ever sold this inexpensively before (adjusting for inflation, naturally) - Tannen's is now selling them for $6 a pack in a city where Bicycle Standard sells for nearly $4.50 with tax and I'm sorely tempted to go buy some in person.  And like any really good deck, there's a breaking-in period.

If you're too impatient or unwilling to work with that or simply don't see the value in it, then yes, this will never be the deck for you, just as not every deck appeals to every buyer.  Go buy something attractive to you with Bee stock and Magic Finish that performs well straight out of the box or perhaps a used pack of Jerry's Nuggets and call it a day.  To each his own.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: ruicorreia on February 07, 2013, 09:11:57 AM
I leave here the link for my review of this deck.
Naturally, the review is incomplete because it is really necessary to break in this deck. But a few hours were enough to feel improvements on the handling.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.345467902226035.70778.271123556327137&type=3
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Siegismyname on February 07, 2013, 10:21:56 AM
They were actually printed in Taiwan. Not Thailand. They are quite far apart.

Anyone here can link me to the link that the QR codes link to?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: ruicorreia on February 07, 2013, 10:38:01 AM
They were actually printed in Taiwan. Not Thailand. They are quite far apart.

Anyone here can link me to the link that the QR codes link to?

What a silly mistake. Thank you for pointing that out!
I don't have the decks here with me, but when I arrive home I'll make sure to post the link.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: S.C. on February 07, 2013, 12:22:16 PM
They were actually printed in Taiwan. Not Thailand. They are quite far apart.

Anyone here can link me to the link that the QR codes link to?

What a silly mistake. Thank you for pointing that out!
I don't have the decks here with me, but when I arrive home I'll make sure to post the link.

http://lawrencesullivan.com/L1/

ha ha beat yah. ;)
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: sr15 on February 07, 2013, 05:27:44 PM
so far the only two people that have had this deck long enough to break it in to the point to actually know how it handles are don and evan. both of them have said that once they break in they handle very well.

I'm not sure how long you think it takes to properly break in a deck of cards, but I assure that it's shorter than you think. You don't need a month+ of extensive use to break in a deck
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Gunshy1 on February 07, 2013, 06:59:07 PM
so far the only two people that have had this deck long enough to break it in to the point to actually know how it handles are don and evan. both of them have said that once they break in they handle very well.

I'm not sure how long you think it takes to properly break in a deck of cards, but I assure that it's shorter than you think. You don't need a month+ of extensive use to break in a deck

lol unless you've been using a quality deck for 3+ hours a day since you've had them for what... a week? then ya maybe you have them broken in.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on February 07, 2013, 07:22:59 PM
so far the only two people that have had this deck long enough to break it in to the point to actually know how it handles are don and evan. both of them have said that once they break in they handle very well.

I'm not sure how long you think it takes to properly break in a deck of cards, but I assure that it's shorter than you think. You don't need a month+ of extensive use to break in a deck

Some quality decks actually take longer.  Decks like Jerry's Nugget continue to improve with use over time, unless they're totally abused and thrashed.  There's a few people here who are finding theirs handle better with time - but as I stated before, to each his own.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Paul Carpenter on February 08, 2013, 04:20:57 PM
I got my set today. Initial thoughts:

The metallic green is only baaaaaarely metallic. The box, which I thought had deep and extensive embossing is glossy and flat as a pancake (the subtle box reveal is brilliant though). I was bummed the courts didn't have some custom coloring to match the backs, and a couple of the faces are a little odd looking. The back is quite a nice design but I wish there was another color worked in to provide a little pop and contrast. The edges of the deck are very smooth and the artwork is registered nicely with the thin borders (but no more so than Aurum turned out). Right out of the box, the feel is definitely different from USPCC, it's like a mix of air-cushion and smooth, you can see the dimples but the cards feel very slick. Stock feels thinner than some, but really isn't if you put the deck next to a USPCC. They fan beautifully out of the box for me. They also stink, in that they smell pretty nasty.

I'd say that they are different, but not really better or worse than a Q1 USPCC deck. Overall a very nice deck, but not the second coming.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: S.C. on February 08, 2013, 06:02:34 PM
I got my set today. Initial thoughts:

The metallic green is only baaaaaarely metallic. The box, which I thought had deep and extensive embossing is glossy and flat as a pancake (the subtle box reveal is brilliant though). I was bummed the courts didn't have some custom coloring to match the backs, and a couple of the faces are a little odd looking. The back is quite a nice design but I wish there was another color worked in to provide a little pop and contrast. The edges of the deck are very smooth and the artwork is registered nicely with the thin borders (but no more so than Aurum turned out). Right out of the box, the feel is definitely different from USPCC, it's like a mix of air-cushion and smooth, you can see the dimples but the cards feel very slick. Stock feels thinner than some, but really isn't if you put the deck next to a USPCC. They fan beautifully out of the box for me. They also stink, in that they smell pretty nasty.

I'd say that they are different, but not really better or worse than a Q1 USPCC deck. Overall a very nice deck, but not the second coming.

Finally someone else comments on the smell of these cards. I thought I was crazy! I thought the Dan and Dave Ace Fulton's smelled weird but man these are funky smelling. I still love these cards but that smell takes a minute to get used to. ???
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: sr15 on February 08, 2013, 07:10:05 PM
I got my set today. Initial thoughts:

The metallic green is only baaaaaarely metallic. The box, which I thought had deep and extensive embossing is glossy and flat as a pancake (the subtle box reveal is brilliant though). I was bummed the courts didn't have some custom coloring to match the backs, and a couple of the faces are a little odd looking. The back is quite a nice design but I wish there was another color worked in to provide a little pop and contrast. The edges of the deck are very smooth and the artwork is registered nicely with the thin borders (but no more so than Aurum turned out). Right out of the box, the feel is definitely different from USPCC, it's like a mix of air-cushion and smooth, you can see the dimples but the cards feel very slick. Stock feels thinner than some, but really isn't if you put the deck next to a USPCC. They fan beautifully out of the box for me. They also stink, in that they smell pretty nasty.

I'd say that they are different, but not really better or worse than a Q1 USPCC deck. Overall a very nice deck, but not the second coming.

agreed with this

To reply to people talking about breaking the deck in, I have been using these cards quite a bit over the past week+ and I agree that they do handle better after being worked in a bit. However, they are still not better or worse than any given custom deck from USPCC. Basically what Paul said. I never said I didn't like this deck because I definitely think it is a high quality deck, but my comments before are mainly in response to the significant hype on this deck that frankly isn't there for me. The "extras" are really take it or leave it for me as well, though if someone really wanted to use them in a routine I could see them getting some kind of use.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Knobz1 on February 08, 2013, 07:47:32 PM
I got my set today. Initial thoughts:

The metallic green is only baaaaaarely metallic. The box, which I thought had deep and extensive embossing is glossy and flat as a pancake (the subtle box reveal is brilliant though). I was bummed the courts didn't have some custom coloring to match the backs, and a couple of the faces are a little odd looking. The back is quite a nice design but I wish there was another color worked in to provide a little pop and contrast. The edges of the deck are very smooth and the artwork is registered nicely with the thin borders (but no more so than Aurum turned out). Right out of the box, the feel is definitely different from USPCC, it's like a mix of air-cushion and smooth, you can see the dimples but the cards feel very slick. Stock feels thinner than some, but really isn't if you put the deck next to a USPCC. They fan beautifully out of the box for me. They also stink, in that they smell pretty nasty.

I'd say that they are different, but not really better or worse than a Q1 USPCC deck. Overall a very nice deck, but not the second coming.

Finally someone else comments on the smell of these cards. I thought I was crazy! I thought the Dan and Dave Ace Fulton's smelled weird but man these are funky smelling. I still love these cards but that smell takes a minute to get used to. ???
Your not the only one.   They smell really weird.   I don't know if this sounds odd but I enjoy taking out a deck of cards and smelling them.   Especially new decks.   I just like the smell of a new, fresh, deck of cards.   Just like taking your bed sheets out of the dryer and having that wonderful smell, depending on what fragrant dryer sheets you use.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Michael on February 08, 2013, 08:53:59 PM
It's not weird :) I think we all like the smell of new decks. I think I like the smell of these just cause they're different. It's strange but it's one of the smells that is weird and different but you kind of get used to them and like them.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Curt on February 09, 2013, 12:12:10 AM
The metallic green is only baaaaaarely metallic. The box, which I thought had deep and extensive embossing is glossy and flat as a pancake (the subtle box reveal is brilliant though). I was bummed the courts didn't have some custom coloring to match the backs, and a couple of the faces are a little odd looking. The back is quite a nice design but I wish there was another color worked in to provide a little pop and contrast. The edges of the deck are very smooth and the artwork is registered nicely with the thin borders (but no more so than Aurum turned out). Right out of the box, the feel is definitely different from USPCC, it's like a mix of air-cushion and smooth, you can see the dimples but the cards feel very slick. Stock feels thinner than some, but really isn't if you put the deck next to a USPCC. They fan beautifully out of the box for me. They also stink, in that they smell pretty nasty.

Agreed, I just got mine and haven't spent too much time with them yet but I would say different is a good word to describe them. It's nice to use something that feels different than the USPC decks that we know and love. Looking forward to seeing how they react after some good wear.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Card Player on February 09, 2013, 10:32:53 AM
Quote
Zenneth summed everything up pretty well, really.  The deck is cheaper to make than at USPC, but a US-made deck doesn't have Customs/import taxes to be accounted for in the price unless it's being sold elsewhere in the world.  So in the end, the deck is, like he said, just somewhat cheaper rather than drastically so.  And let's not forget the amazingly intricate work that went into making this a real magician's deck - the marking system is brilliant and yet so simple to read, and it's just one of many such features in a feature-packed deck.  How often do you find all these features in a deck at that price?  A quality marked deck alone can run $10-20, or more in some cases.

@ Don - To be fair to USPCC, we really should try to separate manufacturing quality (embossing, metallic inks, engineering of a tuck box, paper stock, cut and finish) from the artistic design of the deck. I don't think anyone here will deny the fact that Mark Stutzman has become a brilliant playing cards designer. This particular release is no exception to that.

Quote
I'm not sure how long you think it takes to properly break in a deck of cards, but I assure that it's shorter than you think. You don't need a month+ of extensive use to break in a deck

@ sr15 - Generally speaking I agree. You should not need a month to break in a deck of playing cards. I use most of the flourishes we see reviewers use to evaluate decks of cards and It only takes me about a half hour to get a deck responding consistently. A month of breaking in is a good evaluation of durability but the cards should handle as intended within one to two hours out of the box. Other factors start contributing to a decks handling (usage, moister, hand cleanliness) when breaking decks in over long periods of time.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Frost on February 10, 2013, 04:23:34 PM
does anybody have there order for Coterie for the legends deck i still don't get mine ?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: hecrob on February 10, 2013, 04:26:55 PM
After a week of using the deck i can finally give some opinions about it.

The deck is diffeferent, it feels like a cross between normal uspcc cards and cheap plastic poker cards, NOW THIS IS NOT A BAD THING.
Its a different feel, one that takes some time to get used to.
The cards are really thin and crisp, also they have some great stiffness that lets you abuse them,without them dying on you (normal cards would bend and stay " damaged " if abused a lot )
This cards make me think that were made to last a lot.
I really like the feeling that they have, they dont absorb a lot of hand sweat and they can definetely keep up with your typical custom deck.

Im glad i ordered 3 bricks of them becaue i think they will really last a lot, also al the extra features of the deck makes it and amazing impromtu deck.

Its a great deck in my book.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: John Spade on February 10, 2013, 09:48:26 PM
Oh wow can't wait.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: therealmackay on February 11, 2013, 04:26:04 AM
After having a play with this deck, i really cant fault it! I managed to snag a set of the three colours and went for a few extra decks of green to play around with.

The deck's design is as you can all see, fantastic and they handle superbly, even after handling for hours. They are certainly durable and i expect them to last a lot longer!

I love the decks green colour although the inks arent metallic.

If you havent picked up a set, do so, they are a joy to work with.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on February 11, 2013, 05:41:10 AM
does anybody have there order for Coterie for the legends deck i still don't get mine ?

Sent by mail from Hong Kong, they tend to take a bit longer to show up - maybe two weeks after shipment.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Magic_Orthodoxy on February 11, 2013, 08:19:30 AM
mine's coming from Deleware, should be here Wed
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: The Quadfather on February 11, 2013, 10:40:22 AM
Still available at JPs too

http://jpplayingcards.co.uk/legends-playing-cards-1?filter_name=Legends (http://jpplayingcards.co.uk/legends-playing-cards-1?filter_name=Legends)
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: ruicorreia on February 13, 2013, 07:48:55 AM
A week after receiving my decks, and after breaking them in, this deck shows so many improvements in handling matters: the cards spread better, the fans are more natural and simple and it is possible now to faroe shuffle them.
And like it was appointed by Hecrob earlier, the stiffness of the cards allows to assume that this deck can last for a long time.
On top of that, the marking system is simple, effective and almost invisible.

I maybe wrong, of course, but I think that this deck may well be the best and cheapest deck available on the market right now.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Magic_Orthodoxy on February 13, 2013, 04:59:56 PM
So I don't see in this thread that we have solved all of the puzzles

http://lawrencesullivan.com/l1/

One way to amaze is found on the tip of a wing
Riffle to stoke the flames of fire
In the heart of a blind man, the eight is king
Dragons reveal smoke and rubies
Pearl is to dragon as Koi is to waterfall
Hearts are found split in the embers
What language do computers understand?
An Lámh Fhoisteanach Abú
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Michael on February 13, 2013, 05:41:09 PM
So I don't see in this thread that we have solved all of the puzzles

http://lawrencesullivan.com/l1/

One way to amaze is found on the tip of a wing
Riffle to stoke the flames of fire
In the heart of a blind man, the eight is king
Dragons reveal smoke and rubies
Pearl is to dragon as Koi is to waterfall
Hearts are found split in the embers
What language do computers understand?
An Lámh Fhoisteanach Abú

It was mentioned a few times earlier in this thread. The link was actually posted once as well. I still don't know what a good quarter of those clues mean though.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: S.C. on February 13, 2013, 06:22:51 PM
So I don't see in this thread that we have solved all of the puzzles

http://lawrencesullivan.com/l1/

One way to amaze is found on the tip of a wing
Riffle to stoke the flames of fire
In the heart of a blind man, the eight is king
Dragons reveal smoke and rubies
Pearl is to dragon as Koi is to waterfall
Hearts are found split in the embers
What language do computers understand?
An Lámh Fhoisteanach Abú

It was mentioned a few times earlier in this thread. The link was actually posted once as well. I still don't know what a good quarter of those clues mean though.

Heres what i understand so far:

One way to amaze is found on the tip of a wing (refers to the one way back discussed eariler in this thread)
Riffle to stoke the flames of fire (refers to the marking system on the backs also discussed eariler)
In the heart of a blind man, the eight is king (refers to the embossed 8D reveal on the back of the tuck box)
Dragons reveal smoke and rubies (referes to the smoke in the joker that says ruby)
Pearl is to dragon as Koi is to waterfall (not sure yet)
Hearts are found split in the embers (not sure yet)
What language do computers understand? (refers to the binary code used to read the marking system. Thanks Don for that by the way! :D)
An Lámh Fhoisteanach Abú (is and irish motto meaning "The steady hand to victory" not sure what it means otherwise)

Hope that helps some. :)

*note: please correct me if im on wrong on any of these.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Michael on February 13, 2013, 06:27:25 PM
Heres what i understand so far:

One way to amaze is found on the tip of a wing (refers to the one way back discussed eariler in this thread)
Riffle to stoke the flames of fire (refers to the marking system on the backs also discussed eariler)
In the heart of a blind man, the eight is king (refers to the embossed 8D reveal on the back of the tuck box)
Dragons reveal smoke and rubies (referes to the smoke in the joker that says ruby)
Pearl is to dragon as Koi is to waterfall (not sure yet)
Hearts are found split in the embers (not sure yet)
What language do computers understand? (refers to the binary code used to read the marking system. Thanks Don for that by the way! :D)
An Lámh Fhoisteanach Abú (is and irish motto meaning "The steady hand to victory" not sure what it means otherwise)

Hope that helps some. :)

*note: please correct me if im on wrong on any of these.

Yeah those are the ones I got too and understood. Conveniently, the ones you or we're the same that I understood. I think you got them spot on.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Magic_Orthodoxy on February 13, 2013, 09:24:12 PM
now I have to learn binary? Ugh, I cant even read the Daniel Madison cards!
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: S.C. on February 13, 2013, 09:56:21 PM
now I have to learn binary? Ugh, I cant even read the Daniel Madison cards!

 :) It's actually not as hard as it seems. check out earlier in the thread from Don he spells it out quite nicely.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: agera94 on February 14, 2013, 09:11:00 PM
I'm honestly really enjoying this deck. Its handling improves as you keep breaking it in, and the cards are so durable. To me, it's probably the closest feeling thing to a Jerry's Nugget deck. I switched back and forth between the two and the legends deck feels pretty close to it; the finish, the stock, the amazing thinness of the deck, it's really great and I'm glad I bought them  :) Definitely a deck that I will use for a while.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Curt on February 15, 2013, 01:10:20 AM
I'm honestly really enjoying this deck. Its handling improves as you keep breaking it in, and the cards are so durable. To me, it's probably the closest feeling thing to a Jerry's Nugget deck. I switched back and forth between the two and the legends deck feels pretty close to it; the finish, the stock, the amazing thinness of the deck, it's really great and I'm glad I bought them  :) Definitely a deck that I will use for a while.

Though I have never used a Jerry's Nugget deck, I will definitely agree with you on how durable the deck feels. After playing around with it for a fair bit and doing tons of faro's I am very impressed with how resilient the edges are to splitting or tearing. On a lot of USPCC decks I have found that if I screw up the faro a little bit that it get damage the top edge of the cards....haven't seen this happen yet on the Legends.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Nurul on February 15, 2013, 09:41:30 AM
Quote
Hearts are found split in the embers (not sure yet)

Quote
Hearts: top and bottom flames have thin baselines.

I think these two are connected maybe. Embers r coal from a dying fire, so I assume the base of th top and bottom flame represents th coal from th flames and as they r on either side, they're split. That's my take on it anyway
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Nurul on February 15, 2013, 10:27:26 AM
I'm honestly really enjoying this deck. Its handling improves as you keep breaking it in, and the cards are so durable. To me, it's probably the closest feeling thing to a Jerry's Nugget deck. I switched back and forth between the two and the legends deck feels pretty close to it; the finish, the stock, the amazing thinness of the deck, it's really great and I'm glad I bought them  :) Definitely a deck that I will use for a while.

Though I have never used a Jerry's Nugget deck, I will definitely agree with you on how durable the deck feels. After playing around with it for a fair bit and doing tons of faro's I am very impressed with how resilient the edges are to splitting or tearing. On a lot of USPCC decks I have found that if I screw up the faro a little bit that it get damage the top edge of the cards....haven't seen this happen yet on the Legends.

A couple of my cards have been damaged in th corner :( duno f u can make it out, but it looks like it's about to split
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Pacis on February 15, 2013, 11:26:06 AM
How did that happened? Faroing?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Michael on February 15, 2013, 11:30:57 AM
Wow you just be rough with your cards! Cause although my playing with of these cards has toned down compared to when they first arrived at my doorstep, they're still in basically the same condition (other than the stock and edges getting broken in a little). Remember, I played with these for hours on end and I did everything! I faroed them quite a lot though just cause the faroing ability sucked before I broke them in.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Nurul on February 15, 2013, 11:31:37 AM
How did that happened? Faroing?

Yup, from faro shuffles mainly
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Nurul on February 15, 2013, 11:41:09 AM
Wow you just be rough with your cards! Cause although my playing with of these cards has toned down compared to when they first arrived at my doorstep, they're still in basically the same condition (other than the stock and edges getting broken in a little). Remember, I played with these for hours on end and I did everything! I faroed them quite a lot though just cause the faroing ability sucked before I broke them in.

Nope, not rough with my cards at all .. It's not happened to my other decks, keep in mind it's only them 2 cards which got a little damaged, th rest r fine. Don't get me wrong, I love this deck and th quality on th cards r amazing, I just got a little unlucky I suppose
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Michael on February 15, 2013, 11:43:38 AM
Ah yes I know what you mean then. It's like those unfortunate times you screw up a faro and end up ripping the cards :( that's the reason I've become more careful when I faro nowadays.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Nurul on February 15, 2013, 11:47:13 AM
Yeah kinda like that, duno f doin a faro straight out th box was a wrong move or not, maybe that's why though.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on February 15, 2013, 02:01:43 PM
Quote
Hearts are found split in the embers (not sure yet)

Quote
Hearts: top and bottom flames have thin baselines.

I think these two are connected maybe. Embers r coal from a dying fire, so I assume the base of th top and bottom flame represents th coal from th flames and as they r on either side, they're split. That's my take on it anyway

I do believe you're correct!  It makes perfect sense.

BTW: quit double-posting!  Edit your previous post instead of posting twice in a row, moments apart.

As far as your cards being damaged - this deck does require breaking in, and it looks like you didn't take the time to break them in at first and were doing the faro shuffles a little on the rough side.  I've found that they faro best face-down, bottom to top, like a traditionally-cut deck.  If you tried to faro these the same way as most new decks, you'd actually be faroing "against the grain" - just like trying to faro a new deck in the same manner I just described would potentially ruin the edges and/or corners.  You could try contacting the place you bought them from if you feel they were simply defective, but I couldn't guarantee you as to whether they'd replace them or not - depends on their policies.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Michael on February 15, 2013, 03:09:26 PM
Yes I've found faroing mine bottom up works wonderfully and I almost always get a 26:26 faro doing it this way!
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: S.C. on February 15, 2013, 04:28:54 PM
Quote
Hearts are found split in the embers (not sure yet)

Quote
Hearts: top and bottom flames have thin baselines.

I think these two are connected maybe. Embers r coal from a dying fire, so I assume the base of th top and bottom flame represents th coal from th flames and as they r on either side, they're split. That's my take on it anyway

good catch  :) It makes perfect sense, one of the clues refers to the binary for the values but nothing about the suites. Being that don figured it all out at once I completely overlooked the possibility of another clue equating to the suite of the cards.
...now what does the last clue mean!!!!

•Pearl is to dragon as Koi is to waterfall

I've done some research on the subject and from the looks of it a common legend is that a koi fish swam up a waterfall and was transformed into a golden dragon. that being said the dragon holding a sphere is actually a symbol for "a pearl of wisdom". I can't seem to apply any of this to the deck but maybe this will help someone else in figuring it out.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Magic_Orthodoxy on February 15, 2013, 07:20:27 PM
Quote
Pearl is to dragon as Koi is to waterfall

Many Chinese believed the dragon chased, the sun. Many drawings show this as a "flaming ball". Over the years, the sun changed color from a fiery ball to a silver pearl. This is known as the "night shining pearl" or the huoh chuh, "fire pearl".

The link between dragons and the pearl is told in a legend about Chi Liang, the Marquis of Sui, who was a Minister of State.  One day Chi Liang was out walking and he found a wounded dragon, he administered a simple medicine and saved its life.

Sometime later, he saw the dragon with a pearl in its mouth. The dragon said "I am the son of His Majesty the Dragon, and I am in debt to you for saving my life, and I have brought this pearl to thank you for your aid."

Of course it doesn't have to be Chinese in nature.  The "Worm" encountered by King Arthur's knight Peredur had a stone in its tail that had the ability to turn everything it touched to gold. The Vedic dragon Vritra hid the sun. The Caribs people of Dominica believed in a dragon with a diamond stone on its head, that some thought was an eye. Uncegila, was a dragon in mythology of the Brulé Sioux that had a cold heart made of flashing red crystal.  And scores of other dragons around the world ate, buried, or held similar "round things."

But... I doubt any of that helps solve the puzzle.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Nurul on February 15, 2013, 08:04:09 PM
Quote
•Pearl is to dragon as Koi is to waterfall

I don't think this actually has anything to do with th actual deck. Kinda like th Irish motto doesn't have to do with th deck, more to do with th history behind th "Sullivan" family name. It's like opening a fortune cookie and finding words of wisdom, I think this is what that statement is. Th story of th koi swimming and leaping to th top of th yellow river symbolises that you should aim high and keep going and you will succeed.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Allan on February 15, 2013, 10:09:27 PM
There are two fish in the middle of the card back design in between the LSL symbol. Not sure if those fish are Koi specifically though. Their tails look a bit like a waterfall and between the dragons on either side of the LSL to the right and left is a small circle that may represent a pearl. There are other small design elements incorporated into the back design that remind me of waterfalls as well.

Personally I love this deck. The look of the deck is very nice -- at least the card back and tuck case design as well as the jokers and AoS -- the faces are just ok but not among my favorites. I tend to prefer smaller pips and I'd have preferred the same design of dragons and fire-water elements to have been included more on the courts. All in all I do like the look of the deck very much. What takes this to another level for me is the feel and all of the interesting magic oriented features. And this deck is tough! It holds up to a heavy workout for me. I do tend to abuse my decks and I almost always have one in my hands whenever I watch TV or if I'm commuting (assuming I'm not the driver of course :) ) I've used one of these decks daily over the past two weeks since receiving my bricks and it still looks good and works well. I see only the slightest signs of wear. Often by this time other decks are done, the edges all chipped and ratty, the corners bent up, and I'll already have put a bend across the middle to where there is a visible white cracked line through the middle on the backs. But not with these!

The faro is the only thing I am finding difficult with this deck. Thanks Don for the tip on the direction to faro.  That has helped a lot although I do still find it more challenging than some of my other favorite decks. Looks like I need to work more on my faro technique.

My three favorite decks that I've handled in the latest batch of releases since this past November are these Legends, Dominion by De'vo, and Blaine's Silver Split Spades. The Dominion has a very nice feel, produces stunning fans and textures at different angles and spreads, and I love the looks you can get given all those different cover cards he incorporated into the deck. Blaine's SSS also has a great feel and seems very magical with how the metallic silver ink just vanishes at certain angles. The Legends and SSS feel very different from each other but I find them both to really take a beating and still feel and perform great. The Legends are snappy, thin, and very sturdy and maintain a really nice glassy slipperiness to them that stays right there in that Goldilocks zone -- everything is always just right. The SSS stock feels very luxurious and the more I use it the softer it and more pliable it feels. It's response is so smooth to pressure... it seems to embody that bend but never break kind of philosophy.  They both stand up to a lot of use and abuse but just seem to get better instead of wearing out or showing damage. If the Legends are like polished glass then the SSS are like warm butter.  8^)

Cheers,

Allan
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: agera94 on February 15, 2013, 10:12:58 PM
Can confirm that my deck now faros like almost like butter; still a tad bit of resistance. Overall it's continuing to improve the more I use it.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on February 16, 2013, 12:00:57 AM
Yes I've found faroing mine bottom up works wonderfully and I almost always get a 26:26 faro doing it this way!

If a faro shuffle is anything less than a perfect interleaving of 26 cards on each side, it's simply a weave shuffle.  A faro is a variety of weave shuffle in the first place - all faros are weave shuffles.  Imperfect faros aren't faros at all, since by definition it's only a faro if it's a perfect weave shuffle.

Quote
•Pearl is to dragon as Koi is to waterfall

I don't think this actually has anything to do with th actual deck. Kinda like th Irish motto doesn't have to do with th deck, more to do with th history behind th "Sullivan" family name. It's like opening a fortune cookie and finding words of wisdom, I think this is what that statement is. Th story of th koi swimming and leaping to th top of th yellow river symbolises that you should aim high and keep going and you will succeed.

Actually, those lines aren't some kinds of allegories, family mottoes or legendary references - they're all clues about hidden features of the deck, of which I've never seen so many in a single deck before.  Make it an invisible stripper Mirage deck and it would be the only deck any magician would ever need!  :))

You guys are overthinking it with the koi/dragon references in history.  Just look at the deck, and possibly the box, and sooner or later someone's going to crack the clue and find out what it means.

Often by this time other decks are done, the edges all chipped and ratty, the corners bent up, and I'll already have put a bend across the middle to where there is a visible white cracked line through the middle on the backs. But not with these!

The faro is the only thing I am finding difficult with this deck. Thanks Don for the tip on the direction to faro.  That has helped a lot although I do still find it more challenging than some of my other favorite decks. Looks like I need to work more on my faro technique.

First of all, bro - you REALLY torture your cards!  Consider getting a Kevlar deck!  :))

Regarding the faro direction - you should always GENTLY test a new deck when making a weave shuffle so you know the cut direction.  Most decks are cut "face up" when pressed through the die.  The traditional style is the "face down" cut - casinos still insist on getting face-down-cut decks.  Card pros like Richard Turner insist on it - the three decks he's had a hand in designing all had traditionally-cut cards.  It not only allows for easy face-down faros, but control when shuffling is also improved, which helps a LOT if you're attempting things like a table faro - probably the most difficult move a card man can execute, table faros are perfect interweaves on a table-shuffled deck.  There's an advanced video on the technique for sale at T11 - haven't picked it up yet since it's likely beyond my current skill level.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Michael on February 16, 2013, 01:26:08 AM
Yes I've found faroing mine bottom up works wonderfully and I almost always get a 26:26 faro doing it this way!

If a faro shuffle is anything less than a perfect interleaving of 26 cards on each side, it's simply a weave shuffle.  A faro is a variety of weave shuffle in the first place - all faros are weave shuffles.  Imperfect faros aren't faros at all, since by definition it's only a faro if it's a perfect weave shuffle.


Point taken; I stand corrected. I guess I looked over that small detail. Regardless, I have found that after being broken in just a little, these decks weave shuffle (and specifically faro) very nicely.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: digipunk on February 16, 2013, 02:14:04 AM
I will get these decks tomorrow simply because so many people here discussing them >:(

I just ordered a set from our online auction website. 2 weeks ago I saw they're there, but none of them had been sold until I ordered the first set. Legends decks are not popular here in Taiwan, I believe it's because there have been many newly released decks involving dragons in these 2 years, such as Bicycle red/blue/golden (western) dragon decks, Eric Duan's Tetralogy series, and the DD chinatowns.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Gunshy1 on February 16, 2013, 02:25:46 AM
ill be honest... getting sick of waiting for these. shoulda waited and got them from carc.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on February 16, 2013, 03:21:47 AM
ill be honest... getting sick of waiting for these. shoulda waited and got them from carc.

If you ordered from Coterie1902, you should contact them immediately.  I received mine from them maybe two weeks ago.

EDIT:  Let's review again what we know about the hints.

One way to amaze is found on the tip of a wing
We know there's a one-way mark on the tips of the dragons' wings.  We ALSO know that this mark is reversed on the four aces.  It's less of a one-way mark, more of a fast way to find the aces, unless you flip the aces around relative to the rest of the deck.

Riffle to stoke the flames of fire
We know that the deck fails a riffle test, revealing a marking system hidden in the flames on the dragons' backs.

In the heart of a blind man, the eight is king
We know about the very subtly embossed 8 and diamond on the back of the tuck box.

Dragons reveal smoke and rubies
We know that the "reveal joker" not only shows what appears to be a two of clubs in the dragon's hand, but that the smoke from its snout has the addition of the word "ruby" just above the smoke as it appears in the non-reveal joker.

Pearl is to dragon as Koi is to waterfall
We're still a bit stumped on this.  I suspect that it could actually be a reference to the fine/bold indices on each card.  The one thing I'm thinking of is what these two relationship phrases have in common.  "Pearl is to dragon" and "Koi is to waterfall" - it could be a reference to something small compared to something big, it could be a reference to an object and something that protects/guards the object...  We need to think more about that relationship and what the elements mean to each other.

Hearts are found split in the embers
Another reference to the marking system - the suits are in the "embers" of the flames that reveal the values, with a heart represented by fine lines replacing the thick ones at the base of the 1st and 4th flames counting from the bottom up - they're found "split", and they're the only suit that's split in that manner.  Diamonds have no fine lines, clubs are the bottom two "embers" and spades are the top two.

What language do computers understand?
The third reference to the marking system.  The code in the flames to read the card values is binary, with the smallest digit at the bottom flame and each larger digit one flame higher.  Aces are 0001 in binary (1 in decimal); jacks are 1011 (11), queens are 1100 (12) and kings are 1101 (13).

An Lámh Fhoisteanach Abú
All we know about this is that it's the Sullivan/O'Sullivan family motto in Irish/Gaelic, which translates to "The Steady Hand to Victory".  So, if I hold my hand still during a poker game, does that mean that I'll always win if I'm using this deck?  :))

Anybody have some new ideas regarding the two (red) unexplained clues?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Gunshy1 on February 16, 2013, 11:02:04 AM
well shoot. and here i was thinking i was just being patience for international shipping. Thanks for the info Don.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Nurul on February 16, 2013, 11:09:40 AM
Quote
All we know about this is that it's the Sullivan/O'Sullivan family motto in Irish/Gaelic, which translates to "The Steady Hand to Victory".  So, if I hold my hand still during a poker game, does that mean that I'll always win if I'm using this deck? 

It's th Sullivan coat of arms which is displayed on th front of th tuck box. I'll upload an image.

As u can c, it's got th 2 dragons, snake, wild boar? And steed (or deer)
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: digipunk on February 16, 2013, 12:16:22 PM
Pearl is to dragon as Koi is to waterfall

@Don, actually I agree with brownmagician's opinion. They are simply two 4-character Chinese idioms and don't seem to have any direct/indirect relationship to each other, according to my knowledge. Dragons like to chase (or play with) pearls, and carps have to leap over the Dragon's Gate so that they can become dragons (i.e, challenge and success).
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Ben K on February 16, 2013, 12:22:18 PM
well shoot. and here i was thinking i was just being patience for international shipping. Thanks for the info Don.

@Gunshy, Like Don and others I also received my order about two weeks ago. Definitely something up. Best of luck with it.

@Don, thank you for compiling a list. I was getting ready to spend some time to scroll the thread for all the answers. Seeing the list already there is magic. Pun intended.



Pearl is to dragon as koi is to waterfall. Maybe the reversed wing tips on the aces have something to do with this and are considered a separate secret.

The steady hand to victory. Could this be the pre-arranged deck order? In other words faro shuffle and deal a great hand.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: hecrob on February 16, 2013, 06:19:40 PM
Wait what!? All of you already received your orders!?!?!?

Mine shipped on february 8 but i havent been able to track it yet...

WTH!

:/

Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Magic_Orthodoxy on February 16, 2013, 06:24:30 PM
Quote
Wait what!? All of you already received your orders!?!?!?

I cheated, I ordered mine from eBay

(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/embarrassed/shy-whistler.gif)
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Gunshy1 on February 16, 2013, 06:41:10 PM
Literally about an hour after posting that I hadn't received them I was leaving for work and the mail man dropped them off at my door. So if others are stil waiting I'd wait till mid next week before freaking out :)
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: The Quadfather on February 16, 2013, 06:47:03 PM
Has someone deciphered the stack yet? I would really like to know what it is so I can learn how to use it. I've never learnt how to use stacks before.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on February 16, 2013, 08:49:02 PM

It's th Sullivan coat of arms which is displayed on th front of th tuck box. I'll upload an image.

As u can c, it's got th 2 dragons, snake, wild boar? And steed (or deer)

Actually, it's called a stag.  The box front is a modified version of the coat of arms, with the shield changed to a spade motif.  I'd wager that the snake in that image is wrapped around a sword, just as it is on the tuck box, though I can't tell from the image's low resolution.

Pearl is to dragon as Koi is to waterfall

@Don, actually I agree with brownmagician's opinion. They are simply two 4-character Chinese idioms and don't seem to have any direct/indirect relationship to each other, according to my knowledge. Dragons like to chase (or play with) pearls, and carps have to leap over the Dragon's Gate so that they can become dragons (i.e, challenge and success).

But the one flaw with that idea would be that all of the lines have a clue as to a secret feature of the deck.  It has to mean something.

Has someone deciphered the stack yet? I would really like to know what it is so I can learn how to use it. I've never learnt how to use stacks before.

While I'm not very knowledgable about stacks, the likeliest stack used is the Tamariz/Mnemonica stack, altered to have the AoS on the front of the deck.  It's what David Blaine uses in his decks.  You can look it up online - Juan Tamariz wrote a book on it that sells for around $60 new.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: DelMagic on February 16, 2013, 10:17:14 PM
I don't know the Tamariz stack so I can't confirm this, but I remember someone reported that it is one faro away from the Tamariz stack. Perhaps someone who knows can check this out.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: S.C. on February 16, 2013, 10:46:36 PM

I don't know the Tamariz stack so I can't confirm this, but I remember someone reported that it is one faro away from the Tamariz stack. Perhaps someone who knows can check this out.
I'm not sure if anyone cares  ;) but i thought i would document the
order the cards they came in when i opened the pack. I did this for
myself but thought I would share In case we figure out the stack we
can use this as reference for the original.

I also couldn't help myself I need to shuffle these things before i lose it. ;D

listed from face up position starting at the top card
AS,4H,7D,4C,9D,6C,QS,QD,9C,4D,4S,10H,JC,10S,JD,5C,3H,KD,10C,8S,JH,KC,5S,8H,3D,2S,5H,6D,3C,2H,AH,
10D,7C,JS,AC,7H,AD,7S,KH,8C,KS,8D,2C,5D,6H,3S,2D,9H,6S,QC,QH,9S,J,J

Hope this is useful to someone other than me. :)



The steady hand to victory. Could this be the pre-arranged deck order?
In other words faro shuffle and deal a great hand.



Has someone deciphered the stack yet? I would really like to know what
it is so I can learn how to use it. I've never learnt how to use
stacks before.

While I'm not very knowledgable about stacks, the likeliest stack used
is the Tamariz/Mnemonica stack, altered to have the AoS on the front
of the deck.  It's what David Blaine uses in his decks.  You can look
it up online - Juan Tamariz wrote a book on it that sells for around
$60 new.

someone beat me to it.  ;). I pulled Mnemonica out of my library and worked it out, It is one faro to the Tamariz stack.

I got the idea from the other posts quoted above but alas i was too late.anyway I think that's the clue about the steady hand.

I also want to apologize, I had switched two cards in my previous post about the order. I went back and edited it but i also included it above for reference.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on February 16, 2013, 11:49:11 PM

someone beat me to it.  ;). I pulled Mnemonica out of my library and worked it out, It is one faro to the Tamariz stack.

I got the idea from the other posts quoted above but alas i was too late.anyway I think that's the clue about the steady hand.

I also want to apologize, I had switched two cards in my previous post about the order. I went back and edited it but i also included it above for reference.

So assuming you're correct on this, which you probably are, that leaves just the one unsolved clue:

Pearl is to dragon as Koi is to waterfall

On the card backs, the image has dragons, pearls, koi - but I couldn't spot a waterfall.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: digipunk on February 16, 2013, 11:54:53 PM
Just got mine and handled for... about 30 seconds and it's enough for me to say the Legends deck is identical to the White Moth/Myth in all respects (stock, finish/coating, handling, etc) except the design. Having been playing with White Moth for months, I should be very familiar with the handling of the Legends.

@Don, I really appreciate your spirit of research and contribution to the playing card community. :)

*EDIT: and yes, they are traditionally cut but difficult to do faro shuffle straight out the box. If someone want to practice table faro, I would suggest using other decks. Table faro is considered one of the most difficult sleights, using this deck will only discourage you and make you feel less confident (and hurt the cards).
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on February 17, 2013, 01:12:57 AM
Just got mine and handled for... about 30 seconds and it's enough for me to say the Legends deck is identical to the White Moth/Myth in all respects (stock, finish/coating, handling, etc) except the design. Having been playing with White Moth for months, I should be very familiar with the handling of the Legends.

@Don, I really appreciate your spirit of research and contribution to the playing card community. :)

*EDIT: and yes, they are traditionally cut but difficult to do faro shuffle straight out the box. If someone want to practice table faro, I would suggest using other decks. Table faro is considered one of the most difficult sleights, using this deck will only discourage you and make you feel less confident (and hurt the cards).

Coming from you, that's a high compliment - thanks!

Seeing as how the table faro is exceptionally difficult, I wouldn't attempt to practice it with anything more sophisticated than Tally-Ho or Bee decks, straight off the shelf.  I think Tallys are still traditionally cut, and I have a handful of trad-cut Bees that were given to me as a gift from Bill Schildman at USPC.  I'd probably opt for the Tallys because the stock's a bit easier to bend and shuffle - more pliable.

When I felt the Watcher deck and I felt this one, I knew they were just too close for it to be coincidental.  I think the REN deck is also from the same printer.  Now if only it wasn't such a closely-guarded secret as to precisely which company did the printing...  :))
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Gunshy1 on February 17, 2013, 01:50:33 AM
Looks like the aurum deck is only a card thicker if thicker at all.

Also, did anyone mention that the reveal joker's smoke spells ruby? I may have missed that throughout the thread.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on February 17, 2013, 03:09:22 AM
Looks like the aurum deck is only a card thicker if thicker at all.

Also, did anyone mention that the reveal joker's smoke spells ruby? I may have missed that throughout the thread.

Yeah, we caught "ruby".

It's hard to judge cards by their thickness relative to another deck, particularly from USPC - the two stocks they offer now aren't a fixed thickness.  They state that there's a RANGE in which that stock's thickness may fluctuate.  It's not enough to notice from card to card in the same deck, and perhaps not even from deck to deck in a short print run.  But if you took two recent decks from different print runs, both using the same stock (either "Bicycle" or "Bee Casino"), it's entirely possible that they won't be the same thickness.  At one time the company was giving actual weights in grams per square meter (gsm) but they discontinued that practice last year for unknown reasons (my guess being difficulties maintaining consistent weights among the stocks they offer).
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Nurul on February 17, 2013, 09:45:36 AM
Is there a chance that the clues will ever be revealed by Lawrence Sullivan?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on February 17, 2013, 09:09:44 PM
Is there a chance that the clues will ever be revealed by Lawrence Sullivan?

Sure - there's also a chance I could be kidnapped by gorgeous Vegas showgirls and milked dry by them in a week of wild debauchery.  I'm just not holding my breath waiting for either to happen...  :))

You could try asking, I suppose...
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Nurul on February 17, 2013, 09:12:41 PM
I've already asked
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Nurul on February 25, 2013, 07:43:19 PM
any update on th last clue? I never did get an answer back from Mr Sullivan lol
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: hecrob on March 08, 2013, 06:23:50 PM
Today i finally got my legends (the 8 pack that i ordered from Coterie 1902)

It was a huge letdown for me...

The package contained 2 of each colour and 2 coterie bees.

Well one of my red packages was opened, and used, even dirty... no cellophane to be found and no notice on the box about that so i dont know if it was a customs thing in HK or they just run out of red Legends and throw inside one of the used ones that they had lying around.

The other red deck (the one that came sealed) was damaged on one corner :/

Also the in the webpage it says that every order from coterie gets a really cool card separator for your books... my package didnt have one in it... so no bonus for me.

So im kind of dissapointed.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Michael on March 08, 2013, 06:44:43 PM
Today i finally got my legends (the 8 pack that i ordered from Coterie 1902)

It was a huge letdown for me...

The package contained 2 of each colour and 2 coterie bees.

Well one of my red packages was opened, and used, even dirty... no cellophane to be found and no notice on the box about that so i dont know if it was a customs thing in HK or they just run out of red Legends and throw inside one of the used ones that they had lying around.

The other red deck (the one that came sealed) was damaged on one corner :/

Also the in the webpage it says that every order from coterie gets a really cool card separator for your books... my package didnt have one in it... so no bonus for me.

So im kind of dissapointed.

I'm sure you could bring up every single one of those issues with Coterie. They would fix every single problem. But what about the non-damaged cards? Did you like them?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: hecrob on March 08, 2013, 06:51:31 PM
I got 36 of them a full month before the ones from coterie arrived to my door...

The legends are unique, endure a lot of use and have a very different stock...

I really like them...
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Michael on March 08, 2013, 07:28:24 PM
... Well.... I was just wondering....

And in my experience Coterie has been wonderful....

Too bad you had a bad experience though....
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on March 08, 2013, 09:09:51 PM
Today i finally got my legends (the 8 pack that i ordered from Coterie 1902)

It was a huge letdown for me...

The package contained 2 of each colour and 2 coterie bees.

Well one of my red packages was opened, and used, even dirty... no cellophane to be found and no notice on the box about that so i dont know if it was a customs thing in HK or they just run out of red Legends and throw inside one of the used ones that they had lying around.

The other red deck (the one that came sealed) was damaged on one corner :/

Also the in the webpage it says that every order from coterie gets a really cool card separator for your books... my package didnt have one in it... so no bonus for me.

So im kind of dissapointed.

Use the contact email at Coterie1902.com and mention those issues - I'm certain they'd be eager to make things right for you.  I once had a miscut deck of white Gold Seal New Fan Backs and Zenneth swiftly sent me a replacement, no problem.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: twiscold on March 19, 2013, 12:17:59 PM
Is anyone still looking for the Legends? I am selling a few sets, I love them but still prefer the cambric finish.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on March 19, 2013, 05:52:24 PM
Is anyone still looking for the Legends? I am selling a few sets, I love them but still prefer the cambric finish.

Perhaps this post would do better in the STISO?  Go make a topic.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: pookey on April 15, 2013, 05:44:24 PM
I didn't see it mentioned here yet (I could well have missed it in the pages and pages of comments) - but I can't be the first to notice it has a one way face as well as a one way back.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Michael on April 15, 2013, 06:23:15 PM
I didn't see it mentioned here yet (I could well have missed it in the pages and pages of comments) - but I can't be the first to notice it has a one way face as well as a one way back.

:)) if we had not mentioned yet that would've been interesting! Unfortunately we did and it's somewhere deep in this thread. The one way back is much more subtle than the faces which I personally think is amazing.

I'm wondering if there are plans for a second edition or not. If so, that'll be something to look forward to.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: pookey on April 15, 2013, 06:28:54 PM
:)) if we had not mentioned yet that would've been interesting! Unfortunately we did and it's somewhere deep in this thread. The one way back is much more subtle than the faces which I personally think is amazing.

I thought it must have been!  I love this deck - however the one way face is upsetting me :)

There's certain cards you can one way face anyway, and I feel the face is a bit too obvious.  With the face being so obvious, if it's spotted it will put the rest of the deck into doubt.   Just me?
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Michael on April 15, 2013, 06:36:36 PM
:)) if we had not mentioned yet that would've been interesting! Unfortunately we did and it's somewhere deep in this thread. The one way back is much more subtle than the faces which I personally think is amazing.

I thought it must have been!  I love this deck - however the one way face is upsetting me :)

There's certain cards you can one way face anyway, and I feel the face is a bit too obvious.  With the face being so obvious, if it's spotted it will put the rest of the deck into doubt.   Just me?

I'm not really a fan of the bolded don't either but I mean it's just cause I personally don't like it. It doesn't bother me on this deck much but it is noticeable.

And I figure if you are "transparent" enough with any of your routines and practice your sleights well enough, you might be able to avoid that problem. And I mean transparent as in you make certain things exaggerated to feign transparency (I hope you get why I'm tryin to say). I don't perform magic so I can't really give you any professional opinion.
Title: Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
Post by: Don Boyer on April 16, 2013, 01:47:13 AM
:)) if we had not mentioned yet that would've been interesting! Unfortunately we did and it's somewhere deep in this thread. The one way back is much more subtle than the faces which I personally think is amazing.

I thought it must have been!  I love this deck - however the one way face is upsetting me :)

There's certain cards you can one way face anyway, and I feel the face is a bit too obvious.  With the face being so obvious, if it's spotted it will put the rest of the deck into doubt.   Just me?

First, Pookey - welcome to the Discourse.  You should make an Introduce Yourself topic and let the gang get to know you better.

That one-way face isn't terrible obvious.  Believe it or not, the concept was something David Blaine came up with and it's been used in some CARC decks as well.

Also interesting to note - when the faces are all oriented correctly, the backs of the aces have their one-way marks on the opposite side of the card from the rest of the pack.  It allows for quick recognition of the aces without having to resort to reading the entire marking system.

(If you didn't spot that system yet, it's detailed previously in this topic - worth reading!)