You are Here:
New deck in development

Author (Read 1640 times)

New deck in development
« on: October 28, 2015, 05:53:27 PM »
 

FatYucca

  • Newcomer
  • *
  • 5
    Posts
  • Reputation: 0
Hi everyone,

I'm a newbie to this forum and currently working on a project that includes a deck of playing cards, and hoping for some feedback on my efforts so far.

I have previously launched it on Kickstarter, but the campaign failed to attract enough interest to make it a reality. I am in the process of refining the design, the art work and the campaign. I feel I have perhaps made the theme too complex, but due to the amount of work that has gone into it, I don't wish to scrap it.

I have created 4 factions (4 suits) of a fictional war. The idea was inspired by classic Gothic horror stories and characters, where each faction has developed its own technology. Wanting to have an explanation to each of the factions, how they came about, the story behind the characters portrayed in the court cards and jokers, I am also in the process of producing a book that promotes the art work and tells the stories to back up the cards.  What seemed like a simple idea at first has become a labour of love for almost 2 years.

If anyone would be kind enough to check out my project and give me any feedback, I would be extremely grateful. Given the limits to number of images I can add to a post, I include a link to the previous campaign on Kickstarter that best summarises my efforts here:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/556560107/gothic-horror-industrial-punk-bicycle-playing-card

Any questions please ask.

Thanks in advance for taking the time to check it out.

Alun
 

Re: New deck in development
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2015, 07:53:21 PM »
 

Don Boyer

  • VP/Dir. Club Forum/DAC Chair, 52 Plus Joker
  • Administrator
  • Forum Sentinel
  • *
  • 19,161
    Posts
  • Reputation: 415
  • Pick a card, any card...no, not THAT card!

  • Facebook:
The art is not bad at all.  It might look more interesting in full color.

The biggest problem you're facing is that you're going over some heavily-trod ground for your theme - in fact, combining several well-worn themes.  Countless decks have come and gone through Kickstarter with these same themes, and not that long ago, either - some have even combined themes in a similar manner.  Everyone remembers the first team to climb Mount Everest and live to tell the tale; few if any remember the ones that came after.  In order to stand out, you have to do something more extraordinary - do it better in some way that people will take notice.  Or choose a different challenge.

The story helps somewhat, but perhaps there's a way to tell the story by having it incorporated into the deck?  It could be printed into the spot cards (Ace through 10), either around the pips, over the pips or in place of the pips.  Each suit's spot cards could serve as a chapter telling that faction's story.  Now THAT would make your project stand out.  It would even provide the option of writing sequel stories in the form of new decks that continue the story.
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/
 

Re: New deck in development
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2015, 06:13:06 PM »
 

FatYucca

  • Newcomer
  • *
  • 5
    Posts
  • Reputation: 0
Hi Don,

Thanks for taking the time to check out my (and my brother's) efforts.

I agree with you about the need for colour, i have been adding colour with some lighting effects, and trying make the images moodier.

I hadn't realised so many similarly themed decks have been created recently, and have taken on board your comment about the first to conquer everest. I also like your idea to incorporate the story into the cards, and have had some great ideas surrounding this.

For me (being an artist), collecting cards is about the artwork, so beyond there design what else would you say would appeal to a collector or enthusiast? I want to create a quality deck, but as you suggest, they need to have some thing that makes them stand out from the rest.

Cheers

Alun
 

Re: New deck in development
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2015, 08:03:00 PM »
 

Fess

  • 52 Plus Joker Member
  • Aficionado
  • *
  • 1,444
    Posts
  • Reputation: 26
  • ;)
For me (being an artist), collecting cards is about the artwork, so beyond there design what else would you say would appeal to a collector or enthusiast? I want to create a quality deck, but as you suggest, they need to have some thing that makes them stand out from the rest.

Clear and easy to read indices, better if they're pushed out toward the edge of the card for easy peeks and fanning. A nice mirror back design, preferably with thin boarders but full bleed can be okay if the printer can do a good job on it this is usually repeating patterns. Nothing too dramatic on the pip design, they should always clearly resemble the four suits.

Some observations I've noticed that there is always a dance with creativity in the themes you're suggesting and class. Playing cards are more usable when they're classy. For example, someone may pick up  one deck of Zombiez while the guy next  to him will completely ignore that deck and pick up four decks of plain ole bikes. Steampunk does well when it's got a bit of class, while it doesn't do well when it's muddy and overburdened or over complex. I think if you could mix the horror theme and style you have going somehow with a refined approach on the overall deck, you may have that little bit you're looking for to stand out from the crowd. Have a good foundation, I think.

I can imagine how difficult it is for an artist to be as creative as they would like to be, while being reigned in by the basic principle of functional design. I think that is probably part of the challenge.

By the way, I really like your AoS and AoH. I think those two are fantastic!
Part of my Collection updated infrequently but occasionally, when I remember. (I haven't in months.)
 

Re: New deck in development
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2015, 07:22:49 AM »
 

Don Boyer

  • VP/Dir. Club Forum/DAC Chair, 52 Plus Joker
  • Administrator
  • Forum Sentinel
  • *
  • 19,161
    Posts
  • Reputation: 415
  • Pick a card, any card...no, not THAT card!

  • Facebook:
Fes raises a good point about clarity of the indices.  The more playable a deck is, even if it's an art deck, the more likely people will buy it, pick it up and use it.  I would go as far as revamping the index pips to something more standard, while reserving the custom pip designs for the card art itself.  Or, if you go the "telling a story on the spot cards" route, you might find yourself ditching most of the pips in the first place, saving a few for the courts and that's about it.

Clean design is key.  Consider ditching the watermarks and going for a plain back, perhaps a background for the courts.

And you need a TITLE for this thing!  What kind of title is "Gothic Horror Industrial Punk?"  You've given your work a generic name, no better than the no-name brand cereals and colas in the supermarket - they never taste as good as the name brands so people tend to pass them over.  You have a story, give it a title, because I don't know too many people that would buy a book called "Gothic Industrial Horror Punk," even if that was their favorite genre.

If you want to save a few bucks, consider ditching the Bicycle branding and consider a few of the other printer options out there.  Expert PCC and Legends PCC both make quality decks for less - some would say better quality.  EPCC is a decent alternative if you have to go on the really cheap, but you'll run into resistance on pricing - dyed-in-the-wool collectors won't pay a lot for an MPC deck because their printing process isn't as good; they use a digital press that tends to make the art darker and doesn't have the same resolution as an offset press.

Want to attract collectors?  Bells and whistles can often work.  Embossing, foil, metallic inks, foil printed directly on the cards, UV ink, custom deck seals, serially-numbered deck seals, fancy wooden collector boxes - you name it, sky's the limit.  Don't go too crazy on the extra items like coins and dice and such - they can be popular, but you don't want to turn your project into a bazaar and they tend to eat into your profit margin more, especially if you get out of hand and offer a LOT of stuff.  And lest you forget, everything you offer, you have to ship, and shipping on the low end of the pricing scale still goes by weight.

Best way to introduce the extras is as stretch goals.  The more money you raise, the more stuff you'll add to the deck.  But don't add just for the sake of having bells and whistles - make sure that what you're adding actually fits with the design aesthetic you've created for the cards.

I don't see the Illuminated version of the deck doing too well to improve the bottom line - you added a few bits of color here and there and some splotches like you spilled motor oil on the cards.  Doesn't scream "premium product" to me.  Just make a FULL COLOR version of the artwork, one deck - having a single deck at least at the start will help insure your success.  Double-deck projects that start off with two decks need some serious following to get the needed momentum - if you were a "rock star" deck designer, that would work, but you aren't, no one knows you or your work, so be less ambitious and perhaps work a second version of the deck into a stretch goal.  Making the initial goal smaller makes the whole project more affordable, as long as you're properly budgeting for everything - and a smaller goal is more easily achieved, giving you success and making your brand known.  And if you do go for a second version, make it really special somehow, not with greasy blobs but with something classy - metallic inks, foil on the cards, etc.  Imagine you're in the "steampunk" era - Victorian England.  Would a gentleman of wealth from that era prefer a more refined and elegant design, or something that looks like a grease-stained mess?
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/
 

Re: New deck in development
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2015, 03:23:30 PM »
 

FatYucca

  • Newcomer
  • *
  • 5
    Posts
  • Reputation: 0
Hi Don, Fes,

Thanks again for taking the time to comment, and compliments. You've given me loads to think about.

Making the cards more playable wasn't something I had considered before, but it makes perfect sense. My primary reason for collecting is for the artwork, and really only play with a couple of standard decks.
I have been working on the title thing too, it is too much of a mouth full. But again your point here makes good sense, it needs a title, if Star Wars was instead simply called Sci Fi, it wouldn't really have sold the film.

We were trying to add an element of grunge with the splotches, and agree that perhaps its not working well with the genre we're focusing on. We have also explored other printers such as legends, which I think are really nice. I've just received one of the Leonardo decks by Art Crds, and the quality is superb. I want to end up with something that does that level of quality justice.

I'll rethink the the stretch goals and add ons, I'm not into cheap gimmicks, but I do like the foil, embossing, specialist inks and presentation box ideas that I feel do add to the deck itself rather than a cheap trinket that just gets lost in a drawer somewhere. I'm glad that you have really elaborated upon our understanding of where the deck needs developing. Not meeting our target was a bit of a downer but we've seen it as a learning opportunity and are still in this to win, so to speak.

Well, back to work then. I have almost completed a colour version of the KoH, so I'll post an image soon to get your opinion if that's OK?
 

Re: New deck in development
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2015, 11:59:50 PM »
 

Don Boyer

  • VP/Dir. Club Forum/DAC Chair, 52 Plus Joker
  • Administrator
  • Forum Sentinel
  • *
  • 19,161
    Posts
  • Reputation: 415
  • Pick a card, any card...no, not THAT card!

  • Facebook:

Well, back to work then. I have almost completed a colour version of the KoH, so I'll post an image soon to get your opinion if that's OK?

Of course you may.  Glad our ideas were helpful.
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/
 

Re: New deck in development
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2015, 04:00:30 PM »
 

FatYucca

  • Newcomer
  • *
  • 5
    Posts
  • Reputation: 0
Hi Don, Fes

It's taken a bit longer than anticipated to get this latest version posted, but work and computer issues have occupied too much of my time recently.

As mentioned before here is an updated version of the KoH, any comments welcome. I have teased some colour into image, while trying to maintain as much detail as possible. I am still reworking the indices, though the existing clubs, spades and hearts pips will be retained, perhaps just for the Aces. I was never entirely happy with the previous diamonds pip so that will be reworked too.

I will keep the gears that where previously used in the background, but need to balance the depth of colour against texture, to emphasise the new lighting effect.

Every time  look at this, I realise just how much work there is yet to do. Its taken me 2 years to get this far, I wish now that I had kept things simple!
 

Re: New deck in development
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2015, 12:22:25 AM »
 

Don Boyer

  • VP/Dir. Club Forum/DAC Chair, 52 Plus Joker
  • Administrator
  • Forum Sentinel
  • *
  • 19,161
    Posts
  • Reputation: 415
  • Pick a card, any card...no, not THAT card!

  • Facebook:

Every time  look at this, I realise just how much work there is yet to do. Its taken me 2 years to get this far, I wish now that I had kept things simple!

What stops you from making things simple right now?

Consider the simple line work of a standard playing card.  No shadows, no special effects, and a very simple palette of just three colors plus black (and negative space) in most cases - it could be drawn with some edging tools and a few colored pencils.  Strip away all the extra stuff and get down to basics with the art - make it in your chosen genre, but make it in a more traditional style.  I think you'll find the project becomes a lot easier and has a somewhat higher appeal with a mass audience because it's closer in style to what they're accustomed to.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 12:23:13 AM by Don Boyer »
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/
 

Re: New deck in development
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2015, 05:41:00 PM »
 

FatYucca

  • Newcomer
  • *
  • 5
    Posts
  • Reputation: 0
Hi Don,

Simplifying the art work would involve drawing each peice again from scratch, and though I fully appreciate your feedback and agree with you, I'm not sure I want to do that. They are all hand drawn with the shading incorporated into the source art work, so separating that out is not possible. I think perhaps the entire theme is too complex, especially as a first attempt at a project of this nature.

I'm not going to give up though. I have decided to pursue some other ideas in the mean time, simpler, cleaner more familier and easier to manage, and perhaps finish these once understanding of producing cards matures.

Thanks again for your input, and watch this space...