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Damask Finish

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Damask Finish
« on: March 01, 2016, 08:12:54 PM »
 

PrincessTrouble

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Did anyone else order the Superior Brand Classic Back Readers from CARC?  Just opened a deck and I'm not really digging the Damask finish. I can see the finish on the cards. And although it feels okay, I don't like how it looks. I don't know how to explain it other than it's not OCD friendly. (Not that I consider myself OCD but symmetry and details are important to me.)

Was wondering what everyone else thought of the finish.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 08:15:55 PM by PrincessTrouble »
 

Re: Damask Finish
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2016, 09:02:36 PM »
 

HolyJJ

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Thanks for starting this thread PT.

I've ordered half a deck of the Classic Back Readers, and I'm very curious about how the Damask Finish handles and feels.

I'm hoping that my decks will arrive this week, and so I'll get to know first hand. I usually don't like softer cardstock... but seeing as it's being put out by EPCC, I figured that it had to be worth a try.
With this signature I'm following the example set by Fes: There is only ONE letter L in my display name. "Holly" is a female name... and I'm a bearded guy who's into weightlifting. There's nothing feminine about me brother!
 

Re: Damask Finish
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2016, 06:03:18 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Thanks for starting this thread PT.

I've ordered half a deck of the Classic Back Readers, and I'm very curious about how the Damask Finish handles and feels.

I'm hoping that my decks will arrive this week, and so I'll get to know first hand. I usually don't like softer cardstock... but seeing as it's being put out by EPCC, I figured that it had to be worth a try.

Half-a-deck???  They're selling them by the card or something?

Damask Stock is mighty fine stuff.  I was playing around with an advance deck of the original Superiors - there's a suppleness but durability to it that's enjoyable to handle, at least to my hands.  As far as symmetry...I've never heard of a "symmetrical" finish, in the sense that the finish details are pretty tiny.  You don't go measuring the distance between the dimples or something like that, do you?  It's something that doesn't even register in my mind when I'm handling them.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 06:04:47 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Damask Finish
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2016, 04:10:35 PM »
 

PrincessTrouble

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Thanks for starting this thread PT.

I've ordered half a deck of the Classic Back Readers, and I'm very curious about how the Damask Finish handles and feels.

I'm hoping that my decks will arrive this week, and so I'll get to know first hand. I usually don't like softer cardstock... but seeing as it's being put out by EPCC, I figured that it had to be worth a try.

It feels very good and the cards fan wonderfully.  The marking system is a bit juvenile.  I riffled the cards and laughed out loud.
 

Re: Damask Finish
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2016, 01:13:01 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Thanks for starting this thread PT.

I've ordered half a deck of the Classic Back Readers, and I'm very curious about how the Damask Finish handles and feels.

I'm hoping that my decks will arrive this week, and so I'll get to know first hand. I usually don't like softer cardstock... but seeing as it's being put out by EPCC, I figured that it had to be worth a try.

It feels very good and the cards fan wonderfully.  The marking system is a bit juvenile.  I riffled the cards and laughed out loud.

Most printed decks won't pass a riffle test, the major exception being the Sharps - printed in a way that requires some kind of defocusing of your vision to read them, the telltales are hard to spot in a riffle, or so I'm told.

I'm guessing it's marked in a similar manner to the Ultimate Marked Deck or the Phoenix Marked Deck - plainly readable if you know where to look, hence the term "readers."  I have no problem with that; there are countless marking systems out there, too many for a magician to memorize them all, and readers are the easiest to deal with - no memorization required.  Most "civilians" wouldn't think to perform a riffle test and a smart magician wouldn't give them the chance - and no, they wouldn't be good for poker unless you were playing with people too naive to think you'd use a marked deck, never mind knowing how to detect one!
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Re: Damask Finish
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2016, 07:57:46 PM »
 

HolyJJ

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Don, the telltales on the Sharps back design cannot be spotted at all in a riffle... not unless you're de-focussing your eyes throughout the riffle, and can see the entire back of card as it is being shuffled.

My half a brick of Readers still hasn't arrived... but I completely agree with PT about the marking system being juvenile -- extremely juvenile, actually.

I saw an instagram photo of the Readers back design, and within a second I could see that it was the Jack of Spades. When a marking system is THAT easy to spot, it's kind of disappointing.

It's exactly the same style of markings that the horribly named "ultimate marked deck" uses... but it's even easier to spot than the UMD. I'm not really a fan of that system, but I think Ellusionist's 2nd edition 1800 decks are probably the best to use that particular style of markings.

Anyway, rather than the marking system, I've purchased these decks for the Damask Finish -- I want to see whether or not EPCC have managed to hit another home run with paper quality to not.
With this signature I'm following the example set by Fes: There is only ONE letter L in my display name. "Holly" is a female name... and I'm a bearded guy who's into weightlifting. There's nothing feminine about me brother!
 

Re: Damask Finish
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2016, 01:19:06 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Don, the telltales on the Sharps back design cannot be spotted at all in a riffle... not unless you're de-focussing your eyes throughout the riffle, and can see the entire back of card as it is being shuffled.

My half a brick of Readers still hasn't arrived... but I completely agree with PT about the marking system being juvenile -- extremely juvenile, actually.

I saw an instagram photo of the Readers back design, and within a second I could see that it was the Jack of Spades. When a marking system is THAT easy to spot, it's kind of disappointing.

It's exactly the same style of markings that the horribly named "ultimate marked deck" uses... but it's even easier to spot than the UMD. I'm not really a fan of that system, but I think Ellusionist's 2nd edition 1800 decks are probably the best to use that particular style of markings.

Anyway, rather than the marking system, I've purchased these decks for the Damask Finish -- I want to see whether or not EPCC have managed to hit another home run with paper quality to not.

I happen to like the UMD - it's not as easily spotted as you might think.  Most spectators I show them to have no clue that it's a marked deck, and if they suspect as much, they still never spot the markings because they're so well-integrated into the design.  They're better than my Gambler's Decks and people don't even spot those, despite they're being more obvious.

But I do agree that the marked version of the Bicycle 1800 has an excellent marking system - but it's HARD to read.  I've shown the markings to people and they still couldn't spot them.  I have to practice with them before using them because of how hard they can be to read, especially when there's some fading in one of the corners - I've had to flip the card around to read the other corner in many cases, and with glasses on my vision is 20/15.
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Re: Damask Finish
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2016, 06:28:56 PM »
 

HolyJJ

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I didn't like the UMB at all -- in my opinion, the only way to make the markings any more visible would be to take a black sharpie and right the suit and value on the back with large writing. My cousin who was 8 years old at the time spotted the markings in something like 3 seconds.

Back onto topic, my Readers arrived in the post today.

The marking system definitely does make the UMD marking system seem amazing in comparison... and so it's definitely a bummer. The only way to miss the markings is to turn your head away from the cards!

As for the Damask Finish... Just as LPCC's Diamond Finish and EPCC's Master Finish is the same thing, even LPCC's Elite Finish and EPCC's Damask Finish is the same. It's very good!

I've been using the LUXX Palme deck for a while now, and it's still going strong... and so Elite/Damask Finish is pretty durable -- my experience is that it outlasts Classic Finish, which is an excellent card stock itself.

So, thumbs down for the marking system, but thumbs up for the Damask Finish brother :D
« Last Edit: March 07, 2016, 06:29:40 PM by HolyJJ »
With this signature I'm following the example set by Fes: There is only ONE letter L in my display name. "Holly" is a female name... and I'm a bearded guy who's into weightlifting. There's nothing feminine about me brother!
 

Re: Damask Finish
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2016, 12:29:51 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I didn't like the UMB at all -- in my opinion, the only way to make the markings any more visible would be to take a black sharpie and right the suit and value on the back with large writing. My cousin who was 8 years old at the time spotted the markings in something like 3 seconds.

Back onto topic, my Readers arrived in the post today.

The marking system definitely does make the UMD marking system seem amazing in comparison... and so it's definitely a bummer. The only way to miss the markings is to turn your head away from the cards!

As for the Damask Finish... Just as LPCC's Diamond Finish and EPCC's Master Finish is the same thing, even LPCC's Elite Finish and EPCC's Damask Finish is the same. It's very good!

I've been using the LUXX Palme deck for a while now, and it's still going strong... and so Elite/Damask Finish is pretty durable -- my experience is that it outlasts Classic Finish, which is an excellent card stock itself.

So, thumbs down for the marking system, but thumbs up for the Damask Finish brother :D

Are the Elite Finish decks from Taiwan or from mainland China?  LPCC's been using a second printer in China for some of their work, using different stocks/finishes than what's offered by EPCC out of the Taiwan plant.  The point being that Elite and Damask might be similar but not actually the same - if the print work was done on the mainland, it's definitely not the same.
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Re: Damask Finish
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2016, 05:31:58 AM »
 

HolyJJ

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LUXX Palme was manufactured at the Taiwan factory.

The Emerald Finish is what comes out of the PRC factory, and those cards feel totally different to the Taiwan cards. Emerald Finish cards look and feel like the card stock used for the Pr1me decks. In a nutshell, the PRC cards aren't even similar to the Taiwan cards.

Diamond/Master finish, Classic Finish, Robusto Finish, and Elite/Damask Finish are all very distinctive in both the look of the paper, and more importantly, the feel of the paper -- even blindfolded, it's very easily to identify which stock and finish is used, by the card thickness, flexibility/stiffness, and embossing pattern.

Although Classic Finish and Elite Finish are most similar, the feel of the embossing is very different, hence the different handling also.

It's tough to confuse any of them.
With this signature I'm following the example set by Fes: There is only ONE letter L in my display name. "Holly" is a female name... and I'm a bearded guy who's into weightlifting. There's nothing feminine about me brother!
 

Re: Damask Finish
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2016, 05:40:04 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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LUXX Palme was manufactured at the Taiwan factory.

The Emerald Finish is what comes out of the PRC factory, and those cards feel totally different to the Taiwan cards. Emerald Finish cards look and feel like the card stock used for the Pr1me decks. In a nutshell, the PRC cards aren't even similar to the Taiwan cards.

Diamond/Master finish, Classic Finish, Robusto Finish, and Elite/Damask Finish are all very distinctive in both the look of the paper, and more importantly, the feel of the paper -- even blindfolded, it's very easily to identify which stock and finish is used, by the card thickness, flexibility/stiffness, and embossing pattern.

Although Classic Finish and Elite Finish are most similar, the feel of the embossing is very different, hence the different handling also.

It's tough to confuse any of them.

It goes even further than that.  The various papers used at the Taiwan plant by the two companies are even embossed to different DEPTHS, creating pockets on the paper's surface of varying volume from stock to stock.  Bill Kalush really did a LOT of research going into this venture - were I a pro-level magician, someone with a following, and I wanted to make a signature deck that's ideal for magic work, I'd be calling on Expert to make it.
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Re: Damask Finish
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2016, 03:46:54 PM »
 

see_squared

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Damask Stock is mighty fine stuff. 

It is indeed Don.  John Van Der Put and I spent a decent amount of time with Bill to find the right stock for the Piff deck that would be softer than the classic/master stocks that we're all familiar with EPCC.  It was about a year ago that we settled on the Damask from EPCC for the Piff deck....and I couldn't be any happier!  They have great a great spring and snap to them...handle very well...and we've had the decks in the hands of many professionals who have all given the deck and stock a huge thumbs up! 

I think we'll see more decks coming from EPCC in the Damask stock simply because it feels more like what we've all been used to most of our lives with Bicycle...but with a finer cut and sharper registration. 
 

Re: Damask Finish
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2016, 07:37:43 AM »
 

Paul Ruccio

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I'm looking forward to seeing what this finish is all about. Just to confirm, the Damask Finish is accomplished in the Taiwan plant, correct?
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Re: Damask Finish
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2016, 08:51:13 AM »
 

HolyJJ

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Paul, you're absolutely correct -- it's 100% confirmed that the Damask/Elite Finish is output from the Taiwan factory.

I agree with Chris' analysis -- the Damask Finish is the card stock with the closest feel to a Bicycle deck, and has the added benefit of perfect edges, and superior durability.

I do expect its popularity to rise.
With this signature I'm following the example set by Fes: There is only ONE letter L in my display name. "Holly" is a female name... and I'm a bearded guy who's into weightlifting. There's nothing feminine about me brother!
 

Re: Damask Finish
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2017, 01:51:27 AM »
 

EndersGame

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Now that the Damask (EPCC) / Elite (Legends) finish has been available for a while, how is it holding up, and how has it been received over the past year?

I'm curious to hear some more comments about it, now that it's had the benefit of time for people to check it out.  Are we starting to see it being preferred as an option above the Classic finish, or is the Classic finish still usually the top choice for most folks?
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Re: Damask Finish
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2017, 05:23:51 AM »
 

leangyan

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Now that the Damask (EPCC) / Elite (Legends) finish has been available for a while, how is it holding up, and how has it been received over the past year?

I'm curious to hear some more comments about it, now that it's had the benefit of time for people to check it out.  Are we starting to see it being preferred as an option above the Classic finish, or is the Classic finish still usually the top choice for most folks?

I heard recently that EPCC has come up with improved Classic finish and Brooklyn 101 is the first deck to have it. It is getting raving reviews so I do believe Classic finish is still going to be a contender and will be asked for.
 

Re: Damask Finish
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2017, 11:37:05 PM »
 

NineLives

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I am also VERY curious about how people feel about the damask/elite finish :)

I'm currently setting up my campaign to launch VIZAĜO on KS (a deck I've been working on since July last year): http://www.playingcardforum.com/index.php?topic=9592.0;all

I've been talking to Expert and Legends for past month about printing and we're looking at LPCC to print the deck, which I'm really excited about. I absolutely love the work both these printers do (Nine Lives poker size playing cards were printed by EPCC and I couldn't be happier with the result!

A few days ago I received sample decks from Legends (LUXX Palme, Knowledge, Legends Egyptian and Porcelain) to compare the different finishes they use. I really like the texture and feel of the LUXX palme deck - (elite finish). The texture is more pronounced, yet it still has a lovely smooth feel (hard to explain) - sort of like a subtle reminder of beautiful linen paper used for water colour, without the roughness ... Picking a second favourite, I chose the classic finish on Knowledge ...

Last night we had a bunch of people around and to get some more input, I put the 4 'sample' decks + Rome Anthony & Caesar (LPCC classic finish) & Nine Lives out for everyone to have their say.... which is when things got complicated :D

Overall, Knowledge (LPCC classic) rated very high and so did Nine Lives (EPCC master finish) - (I know, my family and friends are a loyal bunch...). Thing is, the Elite finish received very mixed reviews, which made me unsure about whether it's one of those finishes that people either love (like me) or dislike? I really want to get everything right with this deck - so any thoughts or insights you have are most welcome :)

 

Re: Damask Finish
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2017, 02:48:39 AM »
 

EndersGame

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I am also VERY curious about how people feel about the damask/elite finish :)

Overall, Knowledge (LPCC classic) rated very high and so did Nine Lives (EPCC master finish) - (I know, my family and friends are a loyal bunch...). Thing is, the Elite finish received very mixed reviews, which made me unsure about whether it's one of those finishes that people either love (like me) or dislike? I really want to get everything right with this deck - so any thoughts or insights you have are most welcome :)

Hi Annette.  First of all, congratulations on the work you've done in designing VIZAĜO.  I checked out the thread you reference, and was blown away by the gorgeous images!  I love your unique style, which is evident on everything, from the court cards, the Aces, the card backs, and even the number cards.  Outstanding work, and I wish you great success with your Kickstarter!  As part of that, choosing a good quality playing card that is going to do justice to your amazing artwork is well worth the careful consideration you're giving it, and I hope that you'll also be successful in marketing your campaign to help it stand out from the many inferior projects that are constantly emerging.

As you probably know, the Legends Playing Card Company and Expert Playing Playing Card Company use the same factory in Taiwan, so their decks are of the same quality, although they give the different finishes their own names.  But the quality is excellent.  You may be interested to read my detailed review of Legends Playing Card Company and their range of finishes here:
 Pictorial Review: Legends Playing Card Company - Legendary playing cards.

They offer three main finishes, which I'd summarize as follows:
1. LPCC's Diamond Finish = EPCC's Master Finish (examples being your Nine Lives deck, and the Legends Egyptian deck). This is the thinnest and least-embossed paper stock, which makes it feel somewhat oily/plastic-like, but it is also the stiffest and longest lasting finish, being very hardy/durable, and the cards have a real spring to them. The embossing is similar to Bicycle's "Air Cushion Finish".
2. LPCC's Classic Finish = EPCC's Classic Finish (examples being the Rome Anthony & Caesar decks, and the Knowledge deck): This is a thicker paper stock, which has more of a matte look, feels softer and more papery, and is not as stiff as the Diamond finish. The embossing is also similar to Bicycle's "Air Cushion Finish". Of all the finishes, this has an overall feel that is arguably closest to a Bicycle type deck.
3. LPCC's Elite Finish = EPCC's Damask Finish (examples being the LUXX Palme deck): This uses a similar paper stock to the Classic Finish, but uses a different and deeper embossing pattern on the cards, making them feel even softer yet. It's not as commonly used yet, but reviews I've seen about it have been fairly positive. 

In addition, LPCC (and not EPCC) offers the following finish:
4. LPCC's Emerald Finish (example being the Porcelain deck).  This is made from thin paper stock with minimal embossing and with a slick coating, giving it a similar feel to the Diamond Finish but with a stiffness falling somewhere between that and the softer Classic Finish. Unlike the other three finishes, this is produced in a factory in China rather than Taiwan, and normally has standard Casino-cut edges rather than the superior Diamond Cut used for the other three finishes. 

My thoughts would be as follows, taking them in reverse order:
- Emerald Finish: Are they quoting you a cheaper price for this as opposed to the Diamond finish?  I have compared the two, and it seems to me that they have a similar feel, but the Emerald deck is just a bit more cheaply made overall.  I'd be inclined to skip this one, and stick with the Diamond one as the superior of the two.
- Elite/Damask Finish: I haven't seen enough reports of the Elite/Damask Finish to be able to comment on that from personal experience, but are you saying that you personally had mixed reactions to it?  If so, that might already tell you enough.
- Classic Finish: This seems to be the choice of most magicians and experienced card handlers that I've talked to and corresponded with.  It's the finish that is most like a USPCC produced deck in terms of feel and handling, but the cards themselves are of a higher quality (e.g. the clean cut of the edges is definitely superior!).  They're not as stiff as the Diamond/Master finish, and yet the cards themselves are a little thicker, having a feel that more closely resembles a traditional deck. 
- Diamond/Master Finish: There's no doubt that these are super durable.  But they also feel very different from the kind of deck most people are used to.  The cards are thin, but durable and very stiff, many people even find them too stiff for doing riffle shuffles.  Plus they feel quite smooth, glossy, and almost plastic like - it takes some real getting used to, and not everyone likes it.  Most magicians and card handlers don't really care for them, because they feel too different, even though they are obviously good quality.

My advice would be make a choice between the Classic finish or the Diamond/Master Finish.  And I'd only go with the Diamond/Master finish if you're really convinced it's better and preferable to the Classic Finish.  While the Diamond/Master finish is a very good product and high quality, I find that there are some people who just don't care for it, but I've not come across people who don't care for the Classic finish, so perhaps that is the safer option, without sacrificing quality.

I'd love to see more reviews on the Elite/Damask Finish though, because I think the jury is still out on how it compares with the Classic finish.  Some do speak of it very highly.  Hopefully some more people will post in this thread about their experiences with it, and how it compares with the other finishes.

How do the four finishes that LPCC offers compare in terms of pricing, by the way?  All the best in finalizing your decisions, and preparing for your Kickstarter campaign - I'd love to hear what you end up deciding, and the reasons for your decision.

For further reading, you may also find the following article I wrote helpful: Analysing the quality/handling of a USPCC deck vs EPCC decks: four key elements.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 02:50:42 AM by EndersGame »
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Re: Damask Finish
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2017, 02:54:02 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I am also VERY curious about how people feel about the damask/elite finish :)

I'm currently setting up my campaign to launch VIZAĜO on KS (a deck I've been working on since July last year): http://www.playingcardforum.com/index.php?topic=9592.0;all

I've been talking to Expert and Legends for past month about printing and we're looking at LPCC to print the deck, which I'm really excited about. I absolutely love the work both these printers do (Nine Lives poker size playing cards were printed by EPCC and I couldn't be happier with the result!

A few days ago I received sample decks from Legends (LUXX Palme, Knowledge, Legends Egyptian and Porcelain) to compare the different finishes they use. I really like the texture and feel of the LUXX palme deck - (elite finish). The texture is more pronounced, yet it still has a lovely smooth feel (hard to explain) - sort of like a subtle reminder of beautiful linen paper used for water colour, without the roughness ... Picking a second favourite, I chose the classic finish on Knowledge ...

Last night we had a bunch of people around and to get some more input, I put the 4 'sample' decks + Rome Anthony & Caesar (LPCC classic finish) & Nine Lives out for everyone to have their say.... which is when things got complicated :D

Overall, Knowledge (LPCC classic) rated very high and so did Nine Lives (EPCC master finish) - (I know, my family and friends are a loyal bunch...). Thing is, the Elite finish received very mixed reviews, which made me unsure about whether it's one of those finishes that people either love (like me) or dislike? I really want to get everything right with this deck - so any thoughts or insights you have are most welcome :)

Damask has a lovely, supple feel to it - soft but with good spring and glide.  It feels broken in right out of the box.  It's among my favorite stocks.
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Re: Damask Finish
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2017, 08:05:56 AM »
 

NineLives

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Hi Annette.  First of all, congratulations on the work you've done in designing VIZAĜO.  I checked out the thread you reference, and was blown away by the gorgeous images!  I love your unique style, which is evident on everything, from the court cards, the Aces, the card backs, and even the number cards.  Outstanding work, and I wish you great success with your Kickstarter!  As part of that, choosing a good quality playing card that is going to do justice to your amazing artwork is well worth the careful consideration you're giving it, and I hope that you'll also be successful in marketing your campaign to help it stand out from the many inferior projects that are constantly emerging.

As you probably know, the Legends Playing Card Company and Expert Playing Playing Card Company use the same factory in Taiwan, so their decks are of the same quality, although they give the different finishes their own names.  But the quality is excellent.  You may be interested to read my detailed review of Legends Playing Card Company and their range of finishes here:
 Pictorial Review: Legends Playing Card Company - Legendary playing cards.

They offer three main finishes, which I'd summarize as follows:
1. LPCC's Diamond Finish = EPCC's Master Finish (examples being your Nine Lives deck, and the Legends Egyptian deck). This is the thinnest and least-embossed paper stock, which makes it feel somewhat oily/plastic-like, but it is also the stiffest and longest lasting finish, being very hardy/durable, and the cards have a real spring to them. The embossing is similar to Bicycle's "Air Cushion Finish".
2. LPCC's Classic Finish = EPCC's Classic Finish (examples being the Rome Anthony & Caesar decks, and the Knowledge deck): This is a thicker paper stock, which has more of a matte look, feels softer and more papery, and is not as stiff as the Diamond finish. The embossing is also similar to Bicycle's "Air Cushion Finish". Of all the finishes, this has an overall feel that is arguably closest to a Bicycle type deck.
3. LPCC's Elite Finish = EPCC's Damask Finish (examples being the LUXX Palme deck): This uses a similar paper stock to the Classic Finish, but uses a different and deeper embossing pattern on the cards, making them feel even softer yet. It's not as commonly used yet, but reviews I've seen about it have been fairly positive. 

In addition, LPCC (and not EPCC) offers the following finish:
4. LPCC's Emerald Finish (example being the Porcelain deck).  This is made from thin paper stock with minimal embossing and with a slick coating, giving it a similar feel to the Diamond Finish but with a stiffness falling somewhere between that and the softer Classic Finish. Unlike the other three finishes, this is produced in a factory in China rather than Taiwan, and normally has standard Casino-cut edges rather than the superior Diamond Cut used for the other three finishes. 

My thoughts would be as follows, taking them in reverse order:
- Emerald Finish: Are they quoting you a cheaper price for this as opposed to the Diamond finish?  I have compared the two, and it seems to me that they have a similar feel, but the Emerald deck is just a bit more cheaply made overall.  I'd be inclined to skip this one, and stick with the Diamond one as the superior of the two.
- Elite/Damask Finish: I haven't seen enough reports of the Elite/Damask Finish to be able to comment on that from personal experience, but are you saying that you personally had mixed reactions to it?  If so, that might already tell you enough.
- Classic Finish: This seems to be the choice of most magicians and experienced card handlers that I've talked to and corresponded with.  It's the finish that is most like a USPCC produced deck in terms of feel and handling, but the cards themselves are of a higher quality (e.g. the clean cut of the edges is definitely superior!).  They're not as stiff as the Diamond/Master finish, and yet the cards themselves are a little thicker, having a feel that more closely resembles a traditional deck. 
- Diamond/Master Finish: There's no doubt that these are super durable.  But they also feel very different from the kind of deck most people are used to.  The cards are thin, but durable and very stiff, many people even find them too stiff for doing riffle shuffles.  Plus they feel quite smooth, glossy, and almost plastic like - it takes some real getting used to, and not everyone likes it.  Most magicians and card handlers don't really care for them, because they feel too different, even though they are obviously good quality.

My advice would be make a choice between the Classic finish or the Diamond/Master Finish.  And I'd only go with the Diamond/Master finish if you're really convinced it's better and preferable to the Classic Finish.  While the Diamond/Master finish is a very good product and high quality, I find that there are some people who just don't care for it, but I've not come across people who don't care for the Classic finish, so perhaps that is the safer option, without sacrificing quality.

I'd love to see more reviews on the Elite/Damask Finish though, because I think the jury is still out on how it compares with the Classic finish.  Some do speak of it very highly.  Hopefully some more people will post in this thread about their experiences with it, and how it compares with the other finishes.

How do the four finishes that LPCC offers compare in terms of pricing, by the way?  All the best in finalizing your decisions, and preparing for your Kickstarter campaign - I'd love to hear what you end up deciding, and the reasons for your decision.

For further reading, you may also find the following article I wrote helpful: Analysing the quality/handling of a USPCC deck vs EPCC decks: four key elements.
Thank you so much EndersGame for your super kind and encouraging words! :)

And... for taking the time to include so much detailed information about the card stocks and finishes *huge* - I read your pictoral review of Legends (great article) and have to say you do a great service to curious minds and information seekers! When I started on my first deck (that would be around 7-8 years ago now) I knew very little about the world of finishes and card stocks (and printing companies) for playing cards... though coming from a traditional art background, I can absolutely understand the passion behind favouring one type of paper or finish over another. :)

Since joining here and finding people around the world who have a passion for cards - I have learnt so much - and I can't say how thankful I am to all of you who are happy to share your thoughts and amazing knowledge :)

Having narrowed it down to a choice between Elite/Damask and Classic, it's pretty reassuring to think that my only 'problem' is having to select from awesome card finishes :)
 

Re: Damask Finish
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2017, 08:10:11 AM »
 

NineLives

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Damask has a lovely, supple feel to it - soft but with good spring and glide.  It feels broken in right out of the box.  It's among my favorite stocks.

I agree Don, it does have a lovely feel, and then, so does the classic - ahh decisions, decisions :)
 

Re: Damask Finish
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2017, 12:27:09 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Damask has a lovely, supple feel to it - soft but with good spring and glide.  It feels broken in right out of the box.  It's among my favorite stocks.

I agree Don, it does have a lovely feel, and then, so does the classic - ahh decisions, decisions :)

Then consider the audience for which you're making this deck.  What might they prefer in terms of paper characteristics?

My first experience with Damask, if I recall correctly, was Chameleons - a deck designed for a magician, Asi Wind.  He's done consulting work for David Blaine.  I've met him and think he's a fantastic card magician.  I handed him my own deck (a pack of Bicycle Masters from Ellusionist) and he was able to do some mighty impressive things with it.
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Re: Damask Finish
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2017, 10:10:23 PM »
 

NineLives

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Then consider the audience for which you're making this deck.  What might they prefer in terms of paper characteristics?

My first experience with Damask, if I recall correctly, was Chameleons - a deck designed for a magician, Asi Wind.  He's done consulting work for David Blaine.  I've met him and think he's a fantastic card magician.  I handed him my own deck (a pack of Bicycle Masters from Ellusionist) and he was able to do some mighty impressive things with it.

Great points Don, thank you. I tend to have an instant reaction to things, which I (sometimes) need to either justify (because it works), or, revise (because while it may be awesome in itself, it may not work as well as I first thought) - this can be in design, choice of art material, colour and so on ... My thought and design processes tend to follow the scenic route :)

So, while I really do like the texture on Elite/Damask, I think I will be choosing Classic for the following reasons:
a) the artwork has a lot going on, both in colour and detail - a pronounced texture may compete with the design, where both end up detracting from one another.
b) as EndersGame pointed out, Classic is a finish that seems to be well liked - and the more time I spend handling these cards, the more 'fresh' they feel.
c) I only have one physical deck with the Elite/Damask finish (LUXX Palme) - compared to a few different decks with Classic finish. Depending on the design and things like metallic ink or foil, two decks with the same stock/finish can feel quite different...  and having seem more of Classic, it simply feels like the safest option :)

Thanks again,
Annette :)
 

Re: Damask Finish
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2017, 04:14:33 PM »
 

PrincessTrouble

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Just FYI, EPCC has a couple of new finishes.

JN Finish:
The new JN Finish. This represents our constant efforts to duplicate the venerable Jerry's Nugget Casino cards from the '70s. Probably we, nor maybe anyone else, can get closer. These are very similar to the Master Finish cards that are so popular but these are crushed .01mm thinner and you can feel it.

Stud Finish:
Our new Stud Finish. Very soft and pliable. We think they are the softest high quality cards on the market today.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 04:14:44 PM by PrincessTrouble »
 

Re: Damask Finish
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2017, 07:36:14 PM »
 

EndersGame

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Just FYI, EPCC has a couple of new finishes.

JN Finish:
The new JN Finish. This represents our constant efforts to duplicate the venerable Jerry's Nugget Casino cards from the '70s. Probably we, nor maybe anyone else, can get closer. These are very similar to the Master Finish cards that are so popular but these are crushed .01mm thinner and you can feel it.

Stud Finish:
Our new Stud Finish. Very soft and pliable. We think they are the softest high quality cards on the market today.

Seeing as they both use the same factory in Taiwan, are either of these identical to what Legends Playing Card Company calls their "Emerald Finish"?
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