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Which manufacturer to use?

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Which manufacturer to use?
« on: September 27, 2016, 10:02:31 AM »
 

fjjbnjn

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I would like to start designing card decks, and I've just been doing a little research before I get started. One thing I'm not sure about is the manufacturer I should use, and the minimum order I would need. As far as I can see, there are 3 companies people tend to use: MPC, LPCC, and USPCC. I've ordered one deck from MPC, and I'm not a fan of the quality so I'm ruling that out. I'm just trying to decide between USPCC which I know is decent quality, and LPCC. I've never used LPCC before so I'm not sure how good their cards are. Has anyone used them before, are they better or worse than USPCC? Also, how many decks would I be looking at buying?
 

Re: Which manufacturer to use?
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2016, 11:38:47 AM »
 

Connor X

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Legends produce high-quality playing cards, and I've heard that they're really good with the designers. All the decks I've gotten from LPCC are amazing, and they last longer than my USPCC decks. There's also the Expert Playing Card Co. I've heard mostly good things about their cards, but I've never used any of their decks before, so I don't know. I'm planning on printing with the LPCC and Lawrence when/if I design my first deck.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2016, 11:43:35 AM by Connor X »
 

Re: Which manufacturer to use?
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2016, 01:21:43 PM »
 

fjjbnjn

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Great thanks. How do their prices compare to USPCC?
 

Re: Which manufacturer to use?
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2016, 02:55:29 PM »
 

Fess

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Ask each of them directly for some information about having them print your decks for you. That's what the contact information they provide is for.  ;)
« Last Edit: September 27, 2016, 02:55:46 PM by Fess »
Part of my Collection updated infrequently but occasionally, when I remember. (I haven't in months.)
 

Re: Which manufacturer to use?
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2016, 03:10:50 PM »
 

fjjbnjn

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I have, it just takes a while. Thanks for being polite about it though.
 

Re: Which manufacturer to use?
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2016, 03:15:14 PM »
 

Anthony

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Something else to keep in mind while doing your research, both LPCC & EPCC use the same printing plant for their cards. Sometimes the same finishes go by different names between the two, but for instance the Classic finish is the same from both and they both call it "Classic"

There are a lot of personal things that will also weigh the choice, but both Lawrence and Bill do their very best to deliver exactly what the creator is requesting and more so, can point out issues as well as options that may help the project.

Best of luck :)
 

Re: Which manufacturer to use?
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2016, 03:36:34 PM »
 

Fess

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Patience is a skill my vowel-less friend. It's one that I'm still learning too. Liberty playing cards is also an option, may ask for a sample from them as well or pick up a deck of Liberty standards. Rough edges but a better players feel than MPC and they'll print less than 1,000 for you. I don't know what their minimum is, maybe 500 or 550. There are several options who can do a small print run of 1,000 decks not many who will do less than that if that's a concern.
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Re: Which manufacturer to use?
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2016, 03:41:25 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Something else to keep in mind while doing your research, both LPCC & EPCC use the same printing plant for their cards. Sometimes the same finishes go by different names between the two, but for instance the Classic finish is the same from both and they both call it "Classic"

This is true - to a point.  There are select papers and finishes that Legends uses that are not shared by Expert and vice versa.  In addition, those unique stocks used by Legends are used at a different printing plant located somewhere in mainland China, and not in the shared plant they use together in Taipei, Taiwan.  For example, the first such deck made in China by Legends was their Serpentine Deck, produced using their Emerald finish/stock.  In addition, Legends' Diamond finish/stock is the same as the Classic stock/finish used by Expert, but Expert has their unique, extra-heavy Robusto stock/finish which isn't used by Legends.

Something worth noting with Expert and Legends is that they usually use the terms "stock" and "finish" interchangeably.  Stock is the paper the cards are printed on, finish is the texture of the paper.  The reason they're used interchangeably is that each different stock type they use also has a unique finish to it - they're all embossed, but to different depths in the paper, producing different handling characteristics.  This is straight from Expert's owner, Bill Kalush.  I know of no other company, at least none doing business in the US, that have that kind of distinction in their embossing - most simply offer "smooth" or "embossed," sold under a variety of trademarks and names but without anything beyond perhaps paper thickness to make them distinct from each other.

When I last checked, in regard to minimum order size:
- USPC has the highest minimum print run, at 2,500 - they do have a tendency to change this around now and then, and it was briefly as low as 1,000, but because it wasn't very cost-effective for them, they moved back to 2,500.  In addition, when comparing equal print run sizes, they're often the more expensive printer, something they can afford to be as the US market leader in playing cards.
- Expert has a minimum print run of 1,000 - and as you'd expect, per-deck costs are significantly higher for shorter runs.
- Legends has a minimum print run of 900.
- (Both Expert and Legends are known for exceptionally well-made playing cards, very high in quality.)
- MPC is unique in that its minimum run is as small as a single deck - yes, just one deck!  They're able to do this because they use an all-digital printing process with laser-cut cards instead of die-cut, reducing their costs and giving them greater flexibility.  As you've undoubtedly noticed, the quality is somewhat lower, but depending on the project, it can sometimes be within the range of acceptable.  Even if you don't use them for your finished project, I know of many deck creators that use them for prototyping their designs, making decks that will give them some idea of what their finished product will look like before getting an entire print run from another print shop.  I own a few such prototypes - they're not perfect, but they're not bad for the price, especially when you consider that USPC will charge several hundred dollars for a single prototype deck!
- Liberty Playing Cards is a bit of an unknown for me.  I'm told the quality's a bit lower than Expert and Legends, but that's a pretty high bar to hurdle, so I'm not surprised.  They were known for making a few of the lesser-known brands of cards, like Whitman, before they were purchased by Gambler's Warehouse and moved from Chicago to the greater Dallas area.  They're worth checking out if for no other reason than you might be able to make a decent-quality deck at a lower selling price.

Expect to pay the full cost of printing up front, before the printing press squeezes out so much as a single deck.  I don't know of a single major printer that will take partial payment up front and the remainder upon completion.  These companies don't generally have any space for warehousing projects that haven't been fully paid up - once they're made, they fly out the door as quickly as they can get them on the trucks.  So don't expect the ink to start flowing until the cash does.

A final caveat on pricing - many if not most of the printers do have some degree of "customization" when it comes to pricing.  Whatever quotes you get will be personal quotes for you alone - others might pay more or less than you do, depending on how good a customer they are and how much the printer wants their business.  So if you make a print run the same size and quality as Joe BigCardMaker (that's Joe Sixpack's cousin!), don't be surprised if Joe pays a slightly different price than you - in fact, you'll be lucky if Joe even tells you what he paid, since he'd consider that to be something of a trade secret.  It's the nature of the business.
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Re: Which manufacturer to use?
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2016, 09:56:26 AM »
 

leangyan

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Just to add to what Don has said above, there is one another US based printer who can do prototype decks with minimum order as one. It is Print & Play Games - An Admagic company. Their turnaround time is 24-48 hours, and I'd got my first ever prototype done from them. Quality is not that good, and if you compare it to MPC, latter's quality is way up. Lots of first-time game publishers use their service and they have got 310 GSM Black Core available as well.

The interface to orde prototype will confuse you (18 cards instead of 54), so contact them with your requirement and they will respond asap.

http://www.printplaygames.com/product/2-5-by-3-5-cards-18-card-sheet

If you have got urgency in testing or prototyping, these guys will deliver in the least possible time.